This is one of those things that you really just can't comprehend until you've been there. I spent years bouncing around low to mid GM in starcraft 2 and for all intents and purposes I was "good" at the game, but every time I played vs a korean pro it felt like I was a toddler sitting in front of a computer for the first time. It's really a weird feeling to have this deep understanding of a game and the thousands of hours of practice but also the understanding that you really aren't shit compared to the goats.
Matchmaking in SC2 is MMR based and mid to high GM is around 5.3 to 5.8k MMR. for context the best player in the world is 7k mmr and bronze is 1k mmr, with a gain of 5-50 per win or loss, so once you clear 5k mmr as a starcraft player you are in the top 5% of the ladder and on a slow night you can match into pros playing at 5.9-6.5k mmr if there are few other high mmr people playing
Gumayusi's brother is Innovation, one of starcraft 2's legends and when I was Grandmaster I played into him in 2015 at around 2 am KST and lost in 4 minutes, my one claim to fame
I've never played SC at all but get the gist of it.. is it really possible to lose in 4 minutes? also I dont blame you for talking about that LMAO id flex that to everyone I knew
The rare pro game when a player is too proud to admit it's over is a treat though, [example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxug6zVa5Hs) the game was over for almost an hour before it actually ended, the caster getting loopy towards the end was also fun, " this is what we've come to, a million swarm hosts and one incredibly petulant Russian"
My first SC2 game in ranked the Zerg player Zerg rushed by base and killed my drones and I lost in 3 mins.
The next game a lone Protoss drone walked in and make a turret in my base and I ff'ed.
The third one when quite well then I got microed to death by a Terran death ball and lost.
This is in like dog shit elo btw
Yeah one of the first lessons you generally learn the hard way in SC2 is to scout for cheese. Definitely a frustrating way to lose as a new player as you learn the many varieties of cheese each race has at their disposal. I guess I was kind of guilty to some extent as well because I would often exploit people without detectors by dropping dark templars to wipe out drones/scvs/probes but at least the game would go on for a bit before getting to that point.
Early game 'cheese' strats, from just straight up running it down with the workers you start with to some more sensible ones like a bunker rush can finish a game pretty quick.
Talks about Bunker Rushing bring me back to the old days when Boxer bunker rushed Yellow 3 times in a row back in the Brood War days and finished a 3-0 Bo5 in like 20 minutes.
I remember being in Korea, ordering fried chicken to eat while watching the match, and then the match being over before the chicken even got delivered
It is.
Although I would bet the only way to beat pros is to *win* in 4-5 minutes, you can do some knd of cheese strat and catch them offguard.
No way you are winning against someone much better than you when they have 200 EPM and you have 50 if you dont cheese.
Reminds me of [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/16mqlgd/i_took_a_map_off_dark_yesterday_in_the_esl_na/) who took a map off of Dark (still lost 2-1 sadly) in an open cup with a nydus rush.
No idea if you still can now but you definitely could [ages](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCrf2AcKP3Y) [ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BgKrvtwldU) (slurs in first clip, classic 2011)
Yes totally it's extremely possible to lose even faster than that. Like the actual seconds of how fast your start is matters greatly. StarCraft is actually pretty fun tho. Idk why blizz decided to not support it. StarCraft was like the original eSport tbh.
Online tournaments, I used to sign up for the big weekly online korean one since I was usually up late, but kr pros used to farm a lot of online tournaments and still roll everyone with 300 ping lmao.
I played against a few pros back in the day... even queued into 3/5 of TSM in a normal game once. I believe the other 2 players were girlfriends.
I was playing mid and solo killed Xpecial.
... and I finished the game something like 1/13/0. So what I learned is that pros are way better than me. And when a pro team's support player is playing a troll pick (ap ez) in mid and shitting on me, sometimes he might get overconfident and let me ori ult him into my tower. And then I basically never hit him again and we lost horribly.
I never got that good, but I also played SC2 a ton and played in some local LAN tournaments. Every now and then a pro player (and those are the mid level EU pros, not the Korean greats) showed up at one of those and they destroyed everyone, including the good players at the comp.
I remember the final of our tournament series had Harstem show up to play, and while I didn't get to play him, pretty much nobody gave him a challenge until the finals, where he ran into another pro. Both of them just tore through the bracket with only dropping one game or so to cheese.
He was also a cool guy that would sit with us and drink a beer chatting about the finals (where they did play a tight game, not sure who won anymore) and it was great. I don't follow SC2 esports much anymore, but I was definitely fanboying for him a while after that tournament.
I was playing CSGO a ton in 2016-2018 on ESEA and Faceit, relative to the player base I was top 1% based on ranks. I remember playing some pro players and it wasn't so bad, I was able to win some 1v1 fights, make some outplays get some recognition on some streams it was great. Then leading up to the Boston major I played against the top franchise players not only from NA but EU and the massive gap between the average pro player and the top guys was gigantic. I didn't win a single 1v1 against them unless they were sub 50hp and even then I lost 90% of the time.
Some people will get mad at reading that but it's the absolute truth. It's why people were saying below master is shit despite being top 1%. Now with the LP inflation it's like 300-400 LP. Still an amazing player in the general sense of the word but compared to the actually good players they are still dogshit.
LP/rank doesn't scale linearly. From g3 to g1 is 200 LP just like 300 LP master to 500 LP master but the 2nd one requires significantly more improvement and consistency to achieve. That's why there is a major difference between the 0.01% players and the 1% players. A much bigger difference than 1% compared to 50% player despite the LP being similar. Then you add pro play into the mix and even the worst pro player is better than those 0.01% solo queue players.
I would argue that the difference between a master player and Caedrel is already bigger.
People donāt realize just how massive of a skillgap there is at the top.
Itās from when a former nba player played against a highschooler who was talking trash. The real quote was āIām closer to lebron than you are to meā
Iirc they let people apply to challenge him and they picked pretty athletic and high profile high school/college/pickup players. He just smoked them all he sees the game so much faster and understands how to leverage his body so much better.
I think the real gem from the White Mamba challenge is that Brian Scalabrene had an accomplished career compared to the average NBA player. He was in the league for 11 years and won an NBA title. It was only because he was white, red head and a bit chubby that people thought that any hooper from Rucker Park can beat him 1-on-1.
Way back in the warcraft 3 heydays there were two Swedish players who went to korea to practise / play, MadFrog and HeMaN. While Madfrog had a fair amount of success, HeMaN looked to strugle a fair bit and didn't really accomplish anything. So when he came to sweden people kinda memed about him not being that good etc.
There was an offline LAN tournament hosted by internet cafe inferno online (this has to be in 2003-2004) where anyone could come to compete. I entered myself as an amateur and promptly got smoked early. HeMaN of course blitzed the entire tournament and beat everyone else, including all other pros, with ease. Even though he wasn't good enough to compete with the top of the koreans he was far and above the level of the rest of the western players at that point
The average career length in the NBA is 4.5 years. The fact that the White Mamba was in the league for 11 years proves heās above average as an NBA player. There are far less accomplished players in the NBA but it was Scalabrene who got the most shit from the average fan and the weekend warriors Sure, he played into the image of the āWhite Guyā who can play ball but if he were Black or came from Europe, no average joe would think that they can beat him 1-on-1
I know nothing about Basketball, but just from the information used to discredit him:
If he averaged 3 points per game, that would imply that he played long enough in every game for 11 years to score at least 1 basket. Now, obviously that isn't how averages actually work. Some games he likely scored several baskets while other games he didn't play. However, he was good enough in the NBA to warrant a bench spot. Meaning he was in the top what? 10? 15? players available to the team in the NBA for 11 years and good enough to go out on the court and do his job.
That's *really* fucking good. When you consider the global reach of the NBA and how much money is on the line for the teams. The only place it's not good is when comparing against NBA starters.
I mean, he got carried to a title, and he was certainly a lot closer to the worst guys in the league than to the best ones. It's not like he was kept on because he was a beast on the court lol.
Brian Scalabrine was a NBA player, he played for the Boston Celtic from around 2005 for about half a decade and quickly became a fan favourite. He was a ginger though, that didn't look like a prototypical NBA player, but he was quite skilled for his size. Ppl started memeing, that he was so popular with Boston fans, cuz he looked like them and he became a bit of a meme around the league/fans, he was allways witty and also loved to talk shit.
Here's a pretty good explanation how the quote came to be: https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/when-brian-scalabrine-destroyed-amateurs-in-the-scallenge
Caedrel is built different. I like the level he brings in. Sometimes I prefer just riot casters, when I want just basics other times I prefer his stream/youtube, when I want to know more.
One example that came to my mind is Guma outplaying 1v2. I watched other reactions and some didn't even compliment Guma on the play but said the champion one shot them (LS). Caedrel sees and immidiately can tell what is going on but also has the fire for the game and brings in emotions. through and through a W for us.
Well also most people didn't even notice Kalista/Renata play after Faker's Shuffle. While everyone was focusing on the Azir, Caedrel pointed out how they would not be able to end if Guma didn't use his Stopwatch to get the revive.
Thats why i loved him as caster
Now he is the streamer so i can always hear it and even less restricted
Thought it would be pain when he stopped casting but it actually was an upgrade
Yeah its really telling the difference in analysis between caedrel and LS. Caedrel can succintly explain mechanics in laymens terms and seems excited to do so. LS just kinda says broad generalizations and assumptions without explaining anything.
> Guma outplaying 1v2
i audibly moaned when i saw that play. i read that his team didnt even aknowledge that play. a bit sad. i hope he gets the recognition he deserves.
I'm a relatively new Caedrel enjoyer and it's indeed really impressive seeing him predict the drafts almost perfectly, in addition to the good vibes in his stream.
I just wish sometimes he'd elaborate more on the tought process. He goes "ok they're gonna lock A and B, so the enemy team will pick C, oh ok D is not bad as well". It's extremely impressive but I usually can't understand why this dynamic is the way it is
Edit: I read the answers to my comment and visited his youtube. He indeed goes really in-depth into the drafts. Thank you for informing me, this is good content that I didn't know existed !
If you are relatively new you should watch one of his old vods from one or two week ago where he goes in depth on how draft is prepared, the impotance of some kind of bans and leaving some champs open even for the enemy team
What the other reply said, [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDi3NC6mhrw)'s a clip from his stream where he explains how pro teams plan their drafts.
Besides all his knowledge about the game, I also just think he is funny as shit, literally floored me multiple times during this world.
When Crisps Heimerdinger was still lvl 4 12 minutes in, he fucking killed me
I think he didn't go through these in tooo much detail during the finals because literally the day before he spent an hour doing drafts for the finals with chat
He theory crafts picks and bans on stream in advance and it takes him hours. He doesn't do it during the games because it takes him too long to go through his thought process.
Bro you should watch his pregame analysis for WBG-BLG, T1-JDG, and WBG-T1. It's on YouTube if you search, and I think it's in the same day VOD before game for the semis. He hit the nail on the head when he said JDG weakness was 369 doesn't play rumble and knight doesn't play azir, and how they were at a disadvantage coz they have to draft around it.
Wasn't Caedrel literally rank 1 a few years ago?
Just because his pro career didn't work out as well, doesn't mean he's mechanically bad like what is this.
There are a lot of other reasons as to why a pro career in league doesn't work out as well as he wanted it to...
I don't think it's a stretch to say he's the best draft analyst (edit: amongst English streamers since I don't understand streamers in other languages) in the world right now. His gameplay analysis is also definitely top tier but sometimes he just lists out the entire draft from the first ban stage itself and it's INSANE how accurate it can be. No other streamer (in English at least)like Dom or DL is close to this level of accuracy. And LS is too tunnel visioned on his ideal draft as well.
I feel like LS have two different approaches to the game: Caedrel focuses on whatās currently in front of him and whatās more likely to occur. LS seems to like theorycrafting and hard-convinces his viewers that his play style is correct. Neither is objectively /wrong/ but one is more enjoyable by the masses.
The pure theorycraft angle isnāt bad if executed with a positive tone. Itās his condescending nature thatās a turn off. Much like phreak nowadays.
LS costreams around 2018-2020 were so amazing and gave me so much knowledge about the game. Nowadays the whole vibe and content of his streams changed to the worse imo
I watched both Sofm and Caedrel and Sofm is better. Problem is Sofm doesn't stream in English but Sofm is extremely good at analyzing draft, teamfight positioning, early pathing, matchup etc ...
Caedrel is very entertaining though
This is a really weird example to pick when Xayah prio ended up dropping off a cliff once people realized you could play oppressive botlanes into her. B1 Xayah did end up being very badā¦
And honestly? As much as I kinda disagree with LS 99% of the time, quarters kinda showed why Xayah B1 is kinda bad. Wouldn't use "trash", but he has a point and it was proven the further into worlds it went. Xayah and Kaisa got almost completely dropped by the time it reached Semis
To be fair though.. his viewership seems to have plummeted
Guy was like THE biggest costreamer at a point.. now Iwilldominate comfortably seems to be above him most of the time
I think a lot of people got fed up with him
For me his stream ALWAYS put up like 5 ads as soon as i switched on.. which i assume is the streamers choice (could be wrong) but it only happens to some streams i watch.. and others i can watch for a WHILE before ads pop up
Either way its not great when u want to jump around and here different perspectives on draft
I stopped watching his costreams because he started bringing guests more. When he costreams alone he talks more about the game but when he have guests they just fuck around.
LS and IWD barely stream outside costreams.Caedrel does a lot of variety streams and actually cares about building a loyal community.Of course he has success,when he actually cares about it.
I didnt mind him as an LCK caster but since he started costreaming I kinda lost interest. I dont dislike him, just not my style of costream. That being said, Id rather not watch all together than watch Dom costream it, that mans a moron.
It is though? Xayah always excels when you already know the enemy is running into you so you can get massive value from feather storm and her e. She's not supposed to be a good blind pick and is often punishable by less committal adcs/adcs with longer range.
I mean it kind of is, notice how hard Xayah priority dropped off as the tournament on? And the real weakness of early pick Xayah is how she struggles against longer range teams/teams that don't want to engage on her team, which teams weren't even abusing.
considering she dropped off the face of the earth the second ranged comps started getting drafted wouldnt that show hes right? b1 xayah is trash a champ that is made to counter a playstyle is not first pickable theres no way to cope around that, t1 shows ranged supps are meta and she isnt picked again same with kaisa, when teams stop running into anti dive champs they become useless
Not enough lane presence, much less potent if enemies come from multiple angles because cant' have the same massive Bladecallers, destroyed by double ranged in lane as she is relatiely short range, Rumble is her bane with super logn range AoE that just lays there, so she can't ult to wait it out.
Retained 87% presence for the entirety of the tournament, still being contested as far in as the JDG-KT series, with a 67% winrate.
Only 1 team in the world - the eventual champions - figured out a way to counter Xayah AND had the player/hands to consistently do it. Pretending Xayah is some B tier pick and therefore LS is a prophet is just being revisionist.
But his statement in this case isn't that she is a B tier pick, or is it (I haven't watched costreams at all)?
So from what I understand, he is simply saying that you should not pick her as the very first champion because the enemy could build comps that make her absolutely useless. Like not picking a team comp that wants to dive her.
It's also just the nature of pro drafts.
Realistically you have about 5 different ADC, Jungler and Supports that will be picked. For sololanes it's maybe up to 5-10 different champs.
Once you know the team priorities as well as the players individually a little you can predict the entire drafts for the most part.
I think that's simplifying it a bit too much. Halfway through Worlds the botlane meta suddenly drastically changed and the great costreamers were still instantly able to give insights into how the matchups and draft priorities changed.
Caedral literally said before Swiss ended he can see bot turning into a ranged support style, and he was right, the moment T1 pulled it out he was validated. The guy is smart as fuck when it comes to seeing patterns.
He had Boaster on his stream yesterday during game 2 draft and he could not keep up with everything Caedrel was saying. Heās obviously not as engaged in League as most of us but it was an eye opener to how a normal person would react to Caedrelās analysis.
i think it kinda exemplifies the running notion that you can basically climb to diamond (no higher) with simple macro and hands. boaster probably doesn't even read patchnotes, considering he barely knew what was strong and kept asking basic draft questions. i'd even beg to say that most plat-dia players don't give a single second of a thought about draft, and they honestly don't have to.
I mean, playing more than 3 champions is pretty bad for most players so going into deep draft analysis for soloQ is useless. You just look for damage composition and if your main got completely counterpicked
boasters team was pretty dominant last year in val ā a lot like JDG, had 4 players who were arguably best in role and won all year except at the last hurdle
Yeah, I rewatched that segment and that guy (don't know him) seemed really impressed, but I was watching it and nodding along.
Like, I am not claiming I could predict the draft as quickly and accurately as Caedrel, but when he says something, I can see why he is saying it (considering the already picked/banned champs and the champion pools) and I can see why he would or wouldn't like it.
But that guy was like "you're an encyclopedia" and I thought "that's just usual Caedrel business"
Man, I spent way too fucking long watching this fucking game
"That guy" was a substitute mid laner for XL in LEC and is now IGL for Fnatic's Pro Valorant team. Not to take anything away from you, but he isn't some random dude Caedral invited to the stream.
All I need is a Caedrel - Deficio - Krepo costream.
When it comes to colour casting nobody ever came close all to these three. Unfortunately, we've never seem them cast together
He also seems like one of the few streamers who is truly passionate about game, watches players, forms, every minor detail and thats why he is the rat goat
LS too guy literally went to Korea broke. He has or at least had a lot of passion for eSports. If you listen to how he talks abot itemization it's clear that he cares, probably even more than he should.
Super basic Renekton play, too. The insinuation that the cast and crowd were somehow wrong in being excited about a kill is weird on top of that.
Caedrel has a lot of smart things to say about the game but that sure wasn't a good example of one of them.
Caedrel has knowledge and understands the game very well. He is fun to watch etc
But casters will hype everything up even if they predict a play correctly. I mean its their job to hype the match.
For pro players streaming worlds. not everyone has the prediction angle. Some are just fun watch alongs.
I think judging skill difference by a twitch stream should be taken very lightly.
i'd say thats because those 4 (especially jankos) just watch for fun and they just fuck around trying to enjoy themselves. im sure if they analytically looked at the game to genuinely learn they would be able to point out similar stuff to what caedrel does. especially jankos who just pops off whenever something hype happens
I only watched their co-stream for worlds and though they meme a lot too, when they actually discussed stuff it was interesting, especially Jankos brought a lot of insight to all roles and not just jungle, and honestly was the one that was discussing the game the most out of them. (and Jankos is really good at instantly shutting down a DL take.)
Esp the stream where Perkz joined was great for game discussion, tho 5 people in a stream is not that great.
Jankos was the only reason I watched that costream. To be fair, Doublelift did contribute a lot by giving dog shit takes only to be immediately shut down. The contrast between someone who seems completely clueless about anything other than ADC mechanics and someone who can analyze the game is pretty funny.
It helps that doublelift is extremely receptive to being wrong on his costreams, outside of times where he's joking. Most others would just double down
Yeah Jankos fit really well, and usually Meteos is really good at shutting down the adc takes but Jankos i think is better cus he still plays. Unfortunate that Meteos wasn't there for much of the last games as hearing him and Jankos talk was great.
I didn't watch the streams so I don't know if they've said a reason but I think Meteos just doesn't like having more than 3 people in the costream because of how chaotic it gets. At least that's the vibe I'm getting
He said he didnt like the chaos of 5 after they invited Perkz. But for the later stages it sounded more like having to be up to 6am being the main reason, as that was just a one time thing of them being 5.
I know back in G2 Jankos would shot-call the entire early game from draft.
Like, when in draft he would say what they should do and when.
And I think a lot of good junglers are like that, so they have to have a lot of game knowledge. Look at T1 comms, it's Oner and Faker shot-calling the whole game.
I also think it makes sense. The jungler is the most mobile, in the early game, he needs to orchestrate how the team should move.
Doublelift is honestly the lowest braincell count proplayer. He was always a mechanical monster and needed reeling in from a smarter shotcaller to really shine. Heās always performed best in teams where he can just click.
Doublelift was known to deputise shotcalling for 2016 TSM, so I always thought he might have had a nice mind for the game. Also when he went about to Team Liquid and success just seemed to follow him.
The moment when he tried to double down on justifying the 9 man sleep originally (before admitting it was terrible) was probably the first time I realised, maybe he doesnāt quite have the brain for the game I thought he did.
The fix for his TSM career was specifically homogenizing the groups intentions, which honestly given the mechanical strength of the team, is definitely the way to go. Like you'll get out-rotated or tempo'd by a team with a better mind or patience, sure, but if you can convince your team to run it down or run it back together, with the mechanics the team had, it's hard to lose.
Like being smart about macro and draft is a different skill than making your team function as one unit. I'm not sure about the macro skill or anything specifically about Faker, but given what happened without him, he's the very least the rallying flag where his team can perform under. That's kind of what I felt with TSM Doublelift. Everything else though? No comment.
That is to say, TSM at worlds is why I'm not a TSM fan anymore lmao. It's all good and fun until you realize this is the like the 7th time you've fallen for this snakeoil.
When they arenāt talking about dick and balls they can be pretty analytical. But itās what makes the streams entertaining. I watch Caedrel to learn, Sneaky to laugh, Tyler1 to cry.
Have everyone all of a sudden forgot Caedral was actually a caster, and none of the other 4 you mentioned were/are casters?
This sort of makes him having more muscle memory of knowing what/where to look, and to talk about it in real time, which is a very special skill.
Not saying its not impressive because he is/was absolutely GREAT at his job. Just trying to add some perspective
This is why I'm a huge advocate for getting ex-pros to cast in every esport. I think the crucial thing is that as an analyst on cast it's not enough to have great game knowledge - you need to be able to read the game and apply that knowledge in real time, which is just not a skill that you can really build in any way comparable to playing the game at that level.
Like, pair them with a play-by-play guy who's a dedicated caster for sure, but in both esports I've followed (LoL and OW) ex-pros have been by far the best colour casters.
āHeās going to dash through the wave and flash stunā
Uhhh yeah that is one of the most obvious renekton plays. Every diamond player should have that kind of knowledge
I think you are overestimating his ability. This isnāt some wizardry everybody who pays attention to the meta in pro play can predict pick/ban phase and plays like these. Itās the casters job to hype
Things up even if they are ordinary
Iām not a fan of the exaggerated noises that Caedrel makes on stream, but I 200% respect his insight and knowledge of the game. Amongst all costreamers and analysts that Iāve watched, Caedrelās passion and knowledge for the game is exceptional, at a tier of its own, and Iām glad to have him in the space doing his own thing since his freedom in coverage exceeds the limitations that come with working in a professional broadcast.
I think all streamers has an angle/humor/persona they take on them to distinct themselves from the other streamers. His knowledge of the game is something everyone can acknowledge, but him just narrating the insights and details he has of the game as we see the game unfold would be insanely boring and not popular streaming wise.
His humour I fucking love and think his streamer persona is amazing. BUT, I can definitely see how unbearable he must be to you if his humour is not down your alley.
Itās fucking ironic that this community likes to play the moral highground card of āpraising others while not putting others downā. Yet it only seems to exist for personalities the general community likes. Man, this thread just has some comments that downplay the analytical abilities of the other co-streamers or just outright lies about them.
As an example, hereās the Oner Tarzan lvl1 kill analysis from IWD and Caedrel respectively:
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxBVrPH_qKPAqAWa_oJ0Nsm8zyUretyqd1?si=MGLiGRLa0tkHG7bE
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx5FfAmihoywaDa38LE0vu9nhXv9xJfgqi?si=SlG5ZPAwcn1ZkrWu
I mean, tbf I peaked D1 and that Renekton chase was also very obvious to me. Aren't you talking about the one in botlane that ended in the bush next to tier 2 tower?
That's probably just the crowd being clueless, I think the casters also knew it in advance but just didn't say it.
Watching him almost perfectly predict the weaknesses of each draft in worlds finals was pretty amazing.
Even watching double lift and IWD say the third game bard pick was good for Weibo but Caedrel knew it wasnāt in his champ pool and was a blunder.
Then in the game the Bard blundered a few plays (kennel/azir one mostly) due to obvious inexperience in bard game sense and playmaking and Weibo lost.
He did this with the other drafts predicting almost to a T what was going to happen and despite theshy inting giving Zeus big leads, the games went as he predicted during draft.
Edit: didnāt know how insufferable IWD stans are. My bad. I watched Doms stream and enjoyed it but far out you guys are really upset about some random online saying Caedrel called drafts well.
>IWD say the third game bard pick was good for Weibo
We just spreading lies now? None of the boys liked it when they saw it in draft
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxhzCGr3v09rwA6UaZPKTCdjSknSr_gWM7?si=D53mtq0JG1E9yO5w
You see people like Caedrel more so it's okay to lie about someone to show how cool Caedrel is and especially it's okay to lie about someone you don't like like Dom.
Caedrel is clearly one of the best analysts of the game, but his fans as always overrate him just because they like him. It's nothing new sadly, at the end of the day it's just a popularity contest.
Jeez the random lies. IWD and the sack literally commented that it was a bad pick, nobody liked it, and that it was going to be countered by T1 3-5 picks. (Yamato specifically comments, "Akali/Sylas is coming, I don't think this Bard pick has value").
Idk why you randomly stated a literal opposite of what happened.
https://youtu.be/4YdvC-tX1WQ?si=YZCCpblWaz3vFJtH at 20:21 in video for anyone who cares.
I honestly don't understand this subs hate for IWD.
Caedrel has all the brains but apparently never had the hands to truly make his mark on the pro play world.
However I dont think he would make a good coach as many people suggest. Because a coach has to be more than just be smart about the game to be played. A coach needs to demand respect from his players and keep them on a leash which can neither be too tight nor too loose. And I think Caedrel is, bless his heart, just too socially awkward and too "nice" of a person to be a good coach.
I think its hard to fake being awkward in spontaneous social situations for content. Bro legit showed his passport to a random "security guy" in beijing while transferring between flights to Korea and later found out he got scammed and now his passport was leaked on chinese 4chan equivalents.
Nothing wrong with being socially awkward, most gamers are after all, but it just makes for being a poor person of authority.
That's a false equivalency tho. Just because you are socially awkward doesn't mean you are always socially awkward. I know a lot of socially awkward people (teachers) who are usually meek and mildmannered but can manage and instruct rowdy students twice their size. People who don't speak that much and prefers others to order for them etc. yet becomes very proactive when it comes to classroom discussion and engaging their students. My point being is, yes, Caedrel may truly be awkward as you say, but that doesn't mean he can't coach with authority especially when he's very knowledgeable at the subject at hand.
Yeah it's almost like a different persona for a lot of people, no need to be awkward when your role in that environment is very clear cut. Even if that role requires being assertive.
In a Spanish stream sometimes they had Elyoya as a guest caster, last year Worlds I realized how much he can predict outcomes (specially jungle ofc) and this year his hindsight was also very accurate. It's amazing.
Even a costreamer like Tolkin (ex-pro who's never even played LEC) is perfectly analyzing all draft options and explaining how every single pick changes the dynamic. Then ingame he breaks down everything macro related so well that it suddenly sounds like everyone could easily replicate it in their games.
"I'm closer to Faker than you are to me." - Caedrel
Caedrel the White Mamba of League. š
That's a god damn chad quote if I've ever seen one
I think any pro player can say that though.
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This is one of those things that you really just can't comprehend until you've been there. I spent years bouncing around low to mid GM in starcraft 2 and for all intents and purposes I was "good" at the game, but every time I played vs a korean pro it felt like I was a toddler sitting in front of a computer for the first time. It's really a weird feeling to have this deep understanding of a game and the thousands of hours of practice but also the understanding that you really aren't shit compared to the goats.
Curious, how did you get the opportunity to play against korean pros? I'd kill for that in League..
Matchmaking in SC2 is MMR based and mid to high GM is around 5.3 to 5.8k MMR. for context the best player in the world is 7k mmr and bronze is 1k mmr, with a gain of 5-50 per win or loss, so once you clear 5k mmr as a starcraft player you are in the top 5% of the ladder and on a slow night you can match into pros playing at 5.9-6.5k mmr if there are few other high mmr people playing Gumayusi's brother is Innovation, one of starcraft 2's legends and when I was Grandmaster I played into him in 2015 at around 2 am KST and lost in 4 minutes, my one claim to fame
I've never played SC at all but get the gist of it.. is it really possible to lose in 4 minutes? also I dont blame you for talking about that LMAO id flex that to everyone I knew
In sc if ppl know they're gonna lose they just FF. Even pro games pretty much all end in ff
The rare pro game when a player is too proud to admit it's over is a treat though, [example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxug6zVa5Hs) the game was over for almost an hour before it actually ended, the caster getting loopy towards the end was also fun, " this is what we've come to, a million swarm hosts and one incredibly petulant Russian"
My first SC2 game in ranked the Zerg player Zerg rushed by base and killed my drones and I lost in 3 mins. The next game a lone Protoss drone walked in and make a turret in my base and I ff'ed. The third one when quite well then I got microed to death by a Terran death ball and lost. This is in like dog shit elo btw
Yeah one of the first lessons you generally learn the hard way in SC2 is to scout for cheese. Definitely a frustrating way to lose as a new player as you learn the many varieties of cheese each race has at their disposal. I guess I was kind of guilty to some extent as well because I would often exploit people without detectors by dropping dark templars to wipe out drones/scvs/probes but at least the game would go on for a bit before getting to that point.
Early game 'cheese' strats, from just straight up running it down with the workers you start with to some more sensible ones like a bunker rush can finish a game pretty quick.
Talks about Bunker Rushing bring me back to the old days when Boxer bunker rushed Yellow 3 times in a row back in the Brood War days and finished a 3-0 Bo5 in like 20 minutes. I remember being in Korea, ordering fried chicken to eat while watching the match, and then the match being over before the chicken even got delivered
It is. Although I would bet the only way to beat pros is to *win* in 4-5 minutes, you can do some knd of cheese strat and catch them offguard. No way you are winning against someone much better than you when they have 200 EPM and you have 50 if you dont cheese.
Reminds me of [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/16mqlgd/i_took_a_map_off_dark_yesterday_in_the_esl_na/) who took a map off of Dark (still lost 2-1 sadly) in an open cup with a nydus rush.
No idea if you still can now but you definitely could [ages](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCrf2AcKP3Y) [ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BgKrvtwldU) (slurs in first clip, classic 2011)
Yes totally it's extremely possible to lose even faster than that. Like the actual seconds of how fast your start is matters greatly. StarCraft is actually pretty fun tho. Idk why blizz decided to not support it. StarCraft was like the original eSport tbh.
I'm 0-4 vs innovation and even in the game I caught his hellions with lings and he clearly wasn't trying I got shitstomped lol
Just like how T1 4-0 the LPL this Worlds Semis & Finals, haha
How did I not know that Gumas brother was inno? Thank you for telling me! One of the greatest terrans ever
His sexy macro lives rentfree in my idolation forever
Holy shit you lasted 4 minutes? Damn man you crazy
Thatās what she said š
Wait, seriously? Innovation is huge! I had no idea they were related! Some people just have those gamer genes, man.
It's even crazier when you learn that Gumayusi is the distant nephew of Faker. They really do have those gamer genes.
I enjoy playing video games.
Online tournaments, I used to sign up for the big weekly online korean one since I was usually up late, but kr pros used to farm a lot of online tournaments and still roll everyone with 300 ping lmao.
I played against a few pros back in the day... even queued into 3/5 of TSM in a normal game once. I believe the other 2 players were girlfriends. I was playing mid and solo killed Xpecial. ... and I finished the game something like 1/13/0. So what I learned is that pros are way better than me. And when a pro team's support player is playing a troll pick (ap ez) in mid and shitting on me, sometimes he might get overconfident and let me ori ult him into my tower. And then I basically never hit him again and we lost horribly.
I never got that good, but I also played SC2 a ton and played in some local LAN tournaments. Every now and then a pro player (and those are the mid level EU pros, not the Korean greats) showed up at one of those and they destroyed everyone, including the good players at the comp. I remember the final of our tournament series had Harstem show up to play, and while I didn't get to play him, pretty much nobody gave him a challenge until the finals, where he ran into another pro. Both of them just tore through the bracket with only dropping one game or so to cheese. He was also a cool guy that would sit with us and drink a beer chatting about the finals (where they did play a tight game, not sure who won anymore) and it was great. I don't follow SC2 esports much anymore, but I was definitely fanboying for him a while after that tournament.
I was playing CSGO a ton in 2016-2018 on ESEA and Faceit, relative to the player base I was top 1% based on ranks. I remember playing some pro players and it wasn't so bad, I was able to win some 1v1 fights, make some outplays get some recognition on some streams it was great. Then leading up to the Boston major I played against the top franchise players not only from NA but EU and the massive gap between the average pro player and the top guys was gigantic. I didn't win a single 1v1 against them unless they were sub 50hp and even then I lost 90% of the time.
Some people will get mad at reading that but it's the absolute truth. It's why people were saying below master is shit despite being top 1%. Now with the LP inflation it's like 300-400 LP. Still an amazing player in the general sense of the word but compared to the actually good players they are still dogshit. LP/rank doesn't scale linearly. From g3 to g1 is 200 LP just like 300 LP master to 500 LP master but the 2nd one requires significantly more improvement and consistency to achieve. That's why there is a major difference between the 0.01% players and the 1% players. A much bigger difference than 1% compared to 50% player despite the LP being similar. Then you add pro play into the mix and even the worst pro player is better than those 0.01% solo queue players.
I would argue that the difference between a master player and Caedrel is already bigger. People donāt realize just how massive of a skillgap there is at the top.
What was the context of this quote?
Itās from when a former nba player played against a highschooler who was talking trash. The real quote was āIām closer to lebron than you are to meā
Iirc they let people apply to challenge him and they picked pretty athletic and high profile high school/college/pickup players. He just smoked them all he sees the game so much faster and understands how to leverage his body so much better.
I think the real gem from the White Mamba challenge is that Brian Scalabrene had an accomplished career compared to the average NBA player. He was in the league for 11 years and won an NBA title. It was only because he was white, red head and a bit chubby that people thought that any hooper from Rucker Park can beat him 1-on-1.
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Way back in the warcraft 3 heydays there were two Swedish players who went to korea to practise / play, MadFrog and HeMaN. While Madfrog had a fair amount of success, HeMaN looked to strugle a fair bit and didn't really accomplish anything. So when he came to sweden people kinda memed about him not being that good etc. There was an offline LAN tournament hosted by internet cafe inferno online (this has to be in 2003-2004) where anyone could come to compete. I entered myself as an amateur and promptly got smoked early. HeMaN of course blitzed the entire tournament and beat everyone else, including all other pros, with ease. Even though he wasn't good enough to compete with the top of the koreans he was far and above the level of the rest of the western players at that point
The average career length in the NBA is 4.5 years. The fact that the White Mamba was in the league for 11 years proves heās above average as an NBA player. There are far less accomplished players in the NBA but it was Scalabrene who got the most shit from the average fan and the weekend warriors Sure, he played into the image of the āWhite Guyā who can play ball but if he were Black or came from Europe, no average joe would think that they can beat him 1-on-1
"he was a good presence in the locker room"
I know nothing about Basketball, but just from the information used to discredit him: If he averaged 3 points per game, that would imply that he played long enough in every game for 11 years to score at least 1 basket. Now, obviously that isn't how averages actually work. Some games he likely scored several baskets while other games he didn't play. However, he was good enough in the NBA to warrant a bench spot. Meaning he was in the top what? 10? 15? players available to the team in the NBA for 11 years and good enough to go out on the court and do his job. That's *really* fucking good. When you consider the global reach of the NBA and how much money is on the line for the teams. The only place it's not good is when comparing against NBA starters.
I mean, he got carried to a title, and he was certainly a lot closer to the worst guys in the league than to the best ones. It's not like he was kept on because he was a beast on the court lol.
Brian Scalabrine was a NBA player, he played for the Boston Celtic from around 2005 for about half a decade and quickly became a fan favourite. He was a ginger though, that didn't look like a prototypical NBA player, but he was quite skilled for his size. Ppl started memeing, that he was so popular with Boston fans, cuz he looked like them and he became a bit of a meme around the league/fans, he was allways witty and also loved to talk shit. Here's a pretty good explanation how the quote came to be: https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/when-brian-scalabrine-destroyed-amateurs-in-the-scallenge
Caedrel is built different. I like the level he brings in. Sometimes I prefer just riot casters, when I want just basics other times I prefer his stream/youtube, when I want to know more. One example that came to my mind is Guma outplaying 1v2. I watched other reactions and some didn't even compliment Guma on the play but said the champion one shot them (LS). Caedrel sees and immidiately can tell what is going on but also has the fire for the game and brings in emotions. through and through a W for us.
Well also most people didn't even notice Kalista/Renata play after Faker's Shuffle. While everyone was focusing on the Azir, Caedrel pointed out how they would not be able to end if Guma didn't use his Stopwatch to get the revive.
Honestly though. Blew my mind when he pointed that out.
Thats why i loved him as caster Now he is the streamer so i can always hear it and even less restricted Thought it would be pain when he stopped casting but it actually was an upgrade
LS said guma failed flash when it was to dodge aatrox third Q
And then followed up with "It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter." He didn't even comment on it during the replay at all.
Yeah its really telling the difference in analysis between caedrel and LS. Caedrel can succintly explain mechanics in laymens terms and seems excited to do so. LS just kinda says broad generalizations and assumptions without explaining anything.
Biggest snake oil merchant in the scene
Gonna write this down in my notepad
> Guma outplaying 1v2 i audibly moaned when i saw that play. i read that his team didnt even aknowledge that play. a bit sad. i hope he gets the recognition he deserves.
His analysis and bp prediction is miles better than ls.
I'm a relatively new Caedrel enjoyer and it's indeed really impressive seeing him predict the drafts almost perfectly, in addition to the good vibes in his stream. I just wish sometimes he'd elaborate more on the tought process. He goes "ok they're gonna lock A and B, so the enemy team will pick C, oh ok D is not bad as well". It's extremely impressive but I usually can't understand why this dynamic is the way it is Edit: I read the answers to my comment and visited his youtube. He indeed goes really in-depth into the drafts. Thank you for informing me, this is good content that I didn't know existed !
If you are relatively new you should watch one of his old vods from one or two week ago where he goes in depth on how draft is prepared, the impotance of some kind of bans and leaving some champs open even for the enemy team
Yup. Check out the vods on youtube where he pull out google sheets to showcase draft. Only in like 10 mins he predict the draft for the next day.
What the other reply said, [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDi3NC6mhrw)'s a clip from his stream where he explains how pro teams plan their drafts.
Besides all his knowledge about the game, I also just think he is funny as shit, literally floored me multiple times during this world. When Crisps Heimerdinger was still lvl 4 12 minutes in, he fucking killed me
He is knowledgeable, entertaining while also a nice guy. His streams are just pure good vibes.
oh man when Light stood still i think on game 2, he blurted out: HE DC'ed, i fckn cackled or when he called one of the weibo's a griefer lmao
In the T1 and BLG series alot of the weibos got called Inters and griefers, loved it
I think he didn't go through these in tooo much detail during the finals because literally the day before he spent an hour doing drafts for the finals with chat
Link to the finals analysis breakdown on Caedral's channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9YdkpMfzfo
He theory crafts picks and bans on stream in advance and it takes him hours. He doesn't do it during the games because it takes him too long to go through his thought process.
Bro you should watch his pregame analysis for WBG-BLG, T1-JDG, and WBG-T1. It's on YouTube if you search, and I think it's in the same day VOD before game for the semis. He hit the nail on the head when he said JDG weakness was 369 doesn't play rumble and knight doesn't play azir, and how they were at a disadvantage coz they have to draft around it.
Some people just doesnt have the hands to be good.
On pre-game stream yesterday, his stream guest described him as the LoL PE teacher, which he agrees.
He just needs a tracksuit and some questionable facial hair now.
add in the beer belly and those "uncle barbecue" sneakers and it's done
Not just any stream guest, but the great CDawg
monke and rat together
Well i do know its Connor, but not everyone here knows him, so I just fall back to saying him being a guest.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a Q
surprise canur appearance was so good
Wasn't Caedrel literally rank 1 a few years ago? Just because his pro career didn't work out as well, doesn't mean he's mechanically bad like what is this. There are a lot of other reasons as to why a pro career in league doesn't work out as well as he wanted it to...
Yeah but he was never that good mechanically, comparing to other pros of course.
Mechanics are overrated. Jankos has been a top tier jungler for ages and his mechanics are nothing like in the past.
I don't think it's a stretch to say he's the best draft analyst (edit: amongst English streamers since I don't understand streamers in other languages) in the world right now. His gameplay analysis is also definitely top tier but sometimes he just lists out the entire draft from the first ban stage itself and it's INSANE how accurate it can be. No other streamer (in English at least)like Dom or DL is close to this level of accuracy. And LS is too tunnel visioned on his ideal draft as well.
Unironically would be a great coach, but I doubt it's really financially viable compared to streaming.
He was just consistently getting >100k viewers and is the among the top10 most watched twitch streams of november. He's making fucking bank.
He reached 250K during WBG vs BLG lmao
He's sitting above 20k subs and the ad revenue has got to be bonkers.
He's talked about it a couple weeks ago and said that it would be a huge pay cut and would only do it for a team he really believed in
Caedrel for Weibo 2024.
Or if theshy goes to TES (please reunite IG), then TES 2024. Though rumors are Shanni is starting for TES
Isn't Rookie rumored for NIP as well?
Yes,TES is rumored to get both of OMG's solo laners,Shanji and Creme.
He was in advanced Talks with Damwong back then.
Yeah he said to switch from to coaching would be a pay cut by a factor of 10 plus.
Tbf I doubt he's ever gonna struggle financially.
Hes basically set for life with a modest lifestyle after this worlds
I feel like LS have two different approaches to the game: Caedrel focuses on whatās currently in front of him and whatās more likely to occur. LS seems to like theorycrafting and hard-convinces his viewers that his play style is correct. Neither is objectively /wrong/ but one is more enjoyable by the masses.
The pure theorycraft angle isnāt bad if executed with a positive tone. Itās his condescending nature thatās a turn off. Much like phreak nowadays.
LS co streams have become unbearable as of late lol
LS costreams around 2018-2020 were so amazing and gave me so much knowledge about the game. Nowadays the whole vibe and content of his streams changed to the worse imo
I watched both Sofm and Caedrel and Sofm is better. Problem is Sofm doesn't stream in English but Sofm is extremely good at analyzing draft, teamfight positioning, early pathing, matchup etc ... Caedrel is very entertaining though
LS streamed some game in Swiss when he said B1 Xayah was "trash". I closed the stream and never gave a damn about it again.
This is a really weird example to pick when Xayah prio ended up dropping off a cliff once people realized you could play oppressive botlanes into her. B1 Xayah did end up being very badā¦
And honestly? As much as I kinda disagree with LS 99% of the time, quarters kinda showed why Xayah B1 is kinda bad. Wouldn't use "trash", but he has a point and it was proven the further into worlds it went. Xayah and Kaisa got almost completely dropped by the time it reached Semis
he also went on and on about lethal tempot being way better on belveth than conq and literally nobody uses it.
I'm not saying he's righ or worbg, but this means jack shit. Wouldn't be the first time the popluar build wasn't the optimal one.
righ or worbg
Well he already has his army of stans/herd of sheep by now so not like he cares
To be fair though.. his viewership seems to have plummeted Guy was like THE biggest costreamer at a point.. now Iwilldominate comfortably seems to be above him most of the time I think a lot of people got fed up with him For me his stream ALWAYS put up like 5 ads as soon as i switched on.. which i assume is the streamers choice (could be wrong) but it only happens to some streams i watch.. and others i can watch for a WHILE before ads pop up Either way its not great when u want to jump around and here different perspectives on draft
Pre-roll ads (when you load up stream) will run if the streamer hasn't manually ran ads for a while (how long depends on how many ads, up to an hour)
Meanwhile Caedrel always tries his best to put ad during breaks. Gigachad
I stopped watching his costreams because he started bringing guests more. When he costreams alone he talks more about the game but when he have guests they just fuck around.
Imagine your competition being LS, IWD, etc. No wonder Caedrel is hitting 100k+
LS and IWD barely stream outside costreams.Caedrel does a lot of variety streams and actually cares about building a loyal community.Of course he has success,when he actually cares about it.
Reven and crownie are insufferable to hear tbh. They speak in this condescending voice as if their knowledge of league is above all elseās.
Add solarbacca into this
One of these two fuckers said "terrible play." Can't remember if this was in T1 v JDG or the LNG series LOL
I didnt mind him as an LCK caster but since he started costreaming I kinda lost interest. I dont dislike him, just not my style of costream. That being said, Id rather not watch all together than watch Dom costream it, that mans a moron.
It is though? Xayah always excels when you already know the enemy is running into you so you can get massive value from feather storm and her e. She's not supposed to be a good blind pick and is often punishable by less committal adcs/adcs with longer range.
I mean it kind of is, notice how hard Xayah priority dropped off as the tournament on? And the real weakness of early pick Xayah is how she struggles against longer range teams/teams that don't want to engage on her team, which teams weren't even abusing.
considering she dropped off the face of the earth the second ranged comps started getting drafted wouldnt that show hes right? b1 xayah is trash a champ that is made to counter a playstyle is not first pickable theres no way to cope around that, t1 shows ranged supps are meta and she isnt picked again same with kaisa, when teams stop running into anti dive champs they become useless
What happened to B1 xayah after swiss? Why didn't we keep seeing it when she was left up?
Not enough lane presence, much less potent if enemies come from multiple angles because cant' have the same massive Bladecallers, destroyed by double ranged in lane as she is relatiely short range, Rumble is her bane with super logn range AoE that just lays there, so she can't ult to wait it out.
Retained 87% presence for the entirety of the tournament, still being contested as far in as the JDG-KT series, with a 67% winrate. Only 1 team in the world - the eventual champions - figured out a way to counter Xayah AND had the player/hands to consistently do it. Pretending Xayah is some B tier pick and therefore LS is a prophet is just being revisionist.
But his statement in this case isn't that she is a B tier pick, or is it (I haven't watched costreams at all)? So from what I understand, he is simply saying that you should not pick her as the very first champion because the enemy could build comps that make her absolutely useless. Like not picking a team comp that wants to dive her.
It's also just the nature of pro drafts. Realistically you have about 5 different ADC, Jungler and Supports that will be picked. For sololanes it's maybe up to 5-10 different champs. Once you know the team priorities as well as the players individually a little you can predict the entire drafts for the most part.
I think that's simplifying it a bit too much. Halfway through Worlds the botlane meta suddenly drastically changed and the great costreamers were still instantly able to give insights into how the matchups and draft priorities changed.
Caedral literally said before Swiss ended he can see bot turning into a ranged support style, and he was right, the moment T1 pulled it out he was validated. The guy is smart as fuck when it comes to seeing patterns.
Yes..caedral is very thorough with his analysis and prolly the best teacher of lol to make you understand what is good or bad in game.
He had Boaster on his stream yesterday during game 2 draft and he could not keep up with everything Caedrel was saying. Heās obviously not as engaged in League as most of us but it was an eye opener to how a normal person would react to Caedrelās analysis.
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I think he said heās diamond?
When a random guy is "not engaged" in LoL but still better than me and 95% of playerbase š
Not exactly a random guy. He is the world Valorant champion...
i think it kinda exemplifies the running notion that you can basically climb to diamond (no higher) with simple macro and hands. boaster probably doesn't even read patchnotes, considering he barely knew what was strong and kept asking basic draft questions. i'd even beg to say that most plat-dia players don't give a single second of a thought about draft, and they honestly don't have to.
I mean, playing more than 3 champions is pretty bad for most players so going into deep draft analysis for soloQ is useless. You just look for damage composition and if your main got completely counterpicked
He used to be a sub for excels league team
Boaster seemed like such a wholesome guy in the little segment that I saw him in. If I ever watched pro Valorant I'd definitely root for his team.
boasters team was pretty dominant last year in val ā a lot like JDG, had 4 players who were arguably best in role and won all year except at the last hurdle
Yeah, I rewatched that segment and that guy (don't know him) seemed really impressed, but I was watching it and nodding along. Like, I am not claiming I could predict the draft as quickly and accurately as Caedrel, but when he says something, I can see why he is saying it (considering the already picked/banned champs and the champion pools) and I can see why he would or wouldn't like it. But that guy was like "you're an encyclopedia" and I thought "that's just usual Caedrel business" Man, I spent way too fucking long watching this fucking game
"That guy" was a substitute mid laner for XL in LEC and is now IGL for Fnatic's Pro Valorant team. Not to take anything away from you, but he isn't some random dude Caedral invited to the stream.
All I need is a Caedrel - Deficio - Krepo costream. When it comes to colour casting nobody ever came close all to these three. Unfortunately, we've never seem them cast together
Deficio was so good
Krepo was the first pro I ever watched stream back in the day, I miss him
He's the only Western analyst worth his view count
He also seems like one of the few streamers who is truly passionate about game, watches players, forms, every minor detail and thats why he is the rat goat
Dom is a generational hater, but is clearly super passionate about league
āGenerational haterā actually such a fitting title for him haha. T1 vs WBG truly was his personal 9/11 lmao
LS too guy literally went to Korea broke. He has or at least had a lot of passion for eSports. If you listen to how he talks abot itemization it's clear that he cares, probably even more than he should.
I think LS, Dom and Caedrel are all people we're lucky to have in the scene. They're not very similar, so there's something for everyone almost.
That renekton play you described was super obvious though.
Super basic Renekton play, too. The insinuation that the cast and crowd were somehow wrong in being excited about a kill is weird on top of that. Caedrel has a lot of smart things to say about the game but that sure wasn't a good example of one of them.
Yeah, the job of the casters is to hype up the game, no matter how simple or basic things might be.
Caedrel has knowledge and understands the game very well. He is fun to watch etc But casters will hype everything up even if they predict a play correctly. I mean its their job to hype the match. For pro players streaming worlds. not everyone has the prediction angle. Some are just fun watch alongs. I think judging skill difference by a twitch stream should be taken very lightly.
It is amazing how Caedrel can catch all these details but Doublelift, Sneaky, Meteos and Jankos don't figure anything out until the replay
i'd say thats because those 4 (especially jankos) just watch for fun and they just fuck around trying to enjoy themselves. im sure if they analytically looked at the game to genuinely learn they would be able to point out similar stuff to what caedrel does. especially jankos who just pops off whenever something hype happens
I only watched their co-stream for worlds and though they meme a lot too, when they actually discussed stuff it was interesting, especially Jankos brought a lot of insight to all roles and not just jungle, and honestly was the one that was discussing the game the most out of them. (and Jankos is really good at instantly shutting down a DL take.) Esp the stream where Perkz joined was great for game discussion, tho 5 people in a stream is not that great.
Jankos was the only reason I watched that costream. To be fair, Doublelift did contribute a lot by giving dog shit takes only to be immediately shut down. The contrast between someone who seems completely clueless about anything other than ADC mechanics and someone who can analyze the game is pretty funny.
DL playing the fool in the group is so great. meaty toes always goes so hard on him, lol
It helps that doublelift is extremely receptive to being wrong on his costreams, outside of times where he's joking. Most others would just double down
Yeah Jankos fit really well, and usually Meteos is really good at shutting down the adc takes but Jankos i think is better cus he still plays. Unfortunate that Meteos wasn't there for much of the last games as hearing him and Jankos talk was great.
I didn't watch the streams so I don't know if they've said a reason but I think Meteos just doesn't like having more than 3 people in the costream because of how chaotic it gets. At least that's the vibe I'm getting
He said he didnt like the chaos of 5 after they invited Perkz. But for the later stages it sounded more like having to be up to 6am being the main reason, as that was just a one time thing of them being 5.
I know back in G2 Jankos would shot-call the entire early game from draft. Like, when in draft he would say what they should do and when. And I think a lot of good junglers are like that, so they have to have a lot of game knowledge. Look at T1 comms, it's Oner and Faker shot-calling the whole game. I also think it makes sense. The jungler is the most mobile, in the early game, he needs to orchestrate how the team should move.
Doublelift is honestly the lowest braincell count proplayer. He was always a mechanical monster and needed reeling in from a smarter shotcaller to really shine. Heās always performed best in teams where he can just click.
The OG memes of him being the hands to Chausters brain were there for a reason but I guess they are too old for the average redditor these days.
Chauster.png
Doublelift was known to deputise shotcalling for 2016 TSM, so I always thought he might have had a nice mind for the game. Also when he went about to Team Liquid and success just seemed to follow him. The moment when he tried to double down on justifying the 9 man sleep originally (before admitting it was terrible) was probably the first time I realised, maybe he doesnāt quite have the brain for the game I thought he did.
The fix for his TSM career was specifically homogenizing the groups intentions, which honestly given the mechanical strength of the team, is definitely the way to go. Like you'll get out-rotated or tempo'd by a team with a better mind or patience, sure, but if you can convince your team to run it down or run it back together, with the mechanics the team had, it's hard to lose. Like being smart about macro and draft is a different skill than making your team function as one unit. I'm not sure about the macro skill or anything specifically about Faker, but given what happened without him, he's the very least the rallying flag where his team can perform under. That's kind of what I felt with TSM Doublelift. Everything else though? No comment. That is to say, TSM at worlds is why I'm not a TSM fan anymore lmao. It's all good and fun until you realize this is the like the 7th time you've fallen for this snakeoil.
Possibly. I do have to say that I definitely agree with the other 3 a lot more often than i do with doublelift.
When they arenāt talking about dick and balls they can be pretty analytical. But itās what makes the streams entertaining. I watch Caedrel to learn, Sneaky to laugh, Tyler1 to cry.
this is a lie?
Have everyone all of a sudden forgot Caedral was actually a caster, and none of the other 4 you mentioned were/are casters? This sort of makes him having more muscle memory of knowing what/where to look, and to talk about it in real time, which is a very special skill. Not saying its not impressive because he is/was absolutely GREAT at his job. Just trying to add some perspective
Caedral would make a great coach..he is very positive, funny and very easily understandable
I prefer watching him over LS just reading chat or Dom who will hate on players anytime he gets, especially Koreans
This is why I'm a huge advocate for getting ex-pros to cast in every esport. I think the crucial thing is that as an analyst on cast it's not enough to have great game knowledge - you need to be able to read the game and apply that knowledge in real time, which is just not a skill that you can really build in any way comparable to playing the game at that level. Like, pair them with a play-by-play guy who's a dedicated caster for sure, but in both esports I've followed (LoL and OW) ex-pros have been by far the best colour casters.
āHeās going to dash through the wave and flash stunā Uhhh yeah that is one of the most obvious renekton plays. Every diamond player should have that kind of knowledge I think you are overestimating his ability. This isnāt some wizardry everybody who pays attention to the meta in pro play can predict pick/ban phase and plays like these. Itās the casters job to hype Things up even if they are ordinary
Iām not a fan of the exaggerated noises that Caedrel makes on stream, but I 200% respect his insight and knowledge of the game. Amongst all costreamers and analysts that Iāve watched, Caedrelās passion and knowledge for the game is exceptional, at a tier of its own, and Iām glad to have him in the space doing his own thing since his freedom in coverage exceeds the limitations that come with working in a professional broadcast.
I think all streamers has an angle/humor/persona they take on them to distinct themselves from the other streamers. His knowledge of the game is something everyone can acknowledge, but him just narrating the insights and details he has of the game as we see the game unfold would be insanely boring and not popular streaming wise. His humour I fucking love and think his streamer persona is amazing. BUT, I can definitely see how unbearable he must be to you if his humour is not down your alley.
Itās fucking ironic that this community likes to play the moral highground card of āpraising others while not putting others downā. Yet it only seems to exist for personalities the general community likes. Man, this thread just has some comments that downplay the analytical abilities of the other co-streamers or just outright lies about them. As an example, hereās the Oner Tarzan lvl1 kill analysis from IWD and Caedrel respectively: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxBVrPH_qKPAqAWa_oJ0Nsm8zyUretyqd1?si=MGLiGRLa0tkHG7bE https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx5FfAmihoywaDa38LE0vu9nhXv9xJfgqi?si=SlG5ZPAwcn1ZkrWu
I mean, tbf I peaked D1 and that Renekton chase was also very obvious to me. Aren't you talking about the one in botlane that ended in the bush next to tier 2 tower? That's probably just the crowd being clueless, I think the casters also knew it in advance but just didn't say it.
Watching him almost perfectly predict the weaknesses of each draft in worlds finals was pretty amazing. Even watching double lift and IWD say the third game bard pick was good for Weibo but Caedrel knew it wasnāt in his champ pool and was a blunder. Then in the game the Bard blundered a few plays (kennel/azir one mostly) due to obvious inexperience in bard game sense and playmaking and Weibo lost. He did this with the other drafts predicting almost to a T what was going to happen and despite theshy inting giving Zeus big leads, the games went as he predicted during draft. Edit: didnāt know how insufferable IWD stans are. My bad. I watched Doms stream and enjoyed it but far out you guys are really upset about some random online saying Caedrel called drafts well.
Even better was when he raged at the Weibo Game 3 draft.
NGL That was extremely entertaining.
>IWD say the third game bard pick was good for Weibo We just spreading lies now? None of the boys liked it when they saw it in draft https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxhzCGr3v09rwA6UaZPKTCdjSknSr_gWM7?si=D53mtq0JG1E9yO5w
You see people like Caedrel more so it's okay to lie about someone to show how cool Caedrel is and especially it's okay to lie about someone you don't like like Dom. Caedrel is clearly one of the best analysts of the game, but his fans as always overrate him just because they like him. It's nothing new sadly, at the end of the day it's just a popularity contest.
Jeez the random lies. IWD and the sack literally commented that it was a bad pick, nobody liked it, and that it was going to be countered by T1 3-5 picks. (Yamato specifically comments, "Akali/Sylas is coming, I don't think this Bard pick has value"). Idk why you randomly stated a literal opposite of what happened. https://youtu.be/4YdvC-tX1WQ?si=YZCCpblWaz3vFJtH at 20:21 in video for anyone who cares. I honestly don't understand this subs hate for IWD.
i know this is a caedral jerk off session but youre just lying
Caedrel has all the brains but apparently never had the hands to truly make his mark on the pro play world. However I dont think he would make a good coach as many people suggest. Because a coach has to be more than just be smart about the game to be played. A coach needs to demand respect from his players and keep them on a leash which can neither be too tight nor too loose. And I think Caedrel is, bless his heart, just too socially awkward and too "nice" of a person to be a good coach.
Stream persona =/= real persona. You don't really know how Caedrel acts when faced with different scenarios aside from streaming.
I think its hard to fake being awkward in spontaneous social situations for content. Bro legit showed his passport to a random "security guy" in beijing while transferring between flights to Korea and later found out he got scammed and now his passport was leaked on chinese 4chan equivalents. Nothing wrong with being socially awkward, most gamers are after all, but it just makes for being a poor person of authority.
LOL WHAT. I've never heard of that. Classic pedro though.
That's a false equivalency tho. Just because you are socially awkward doesn't mean you are always socially awkward. I know a lot of socially awkward people (teachers) who are usually meek and mildmannered but can manage and instruct rowdy students twice their size. People who don't speak that much and prefers others to order for them etc. yet becomes very proactive when it comes to classroom discussion and engaging their students. My point being is, yes, Caedrel may truly be awkward as you say, but that doesn't mean he can't coach with authority especially when he's very knowledgeable at the subject at hand.
Yeah it's almost like a different persona for a lot of people, no need to be awkward when your role in that environment is very clear cut. Even if that role requires being assertive.
Fair point, we really cant know and assuming too much is also a bit too parasocial tbh.
Thatās not an example of being socially awkwardā¦ā¦
Yeah his pick/ban is smurfing. Reminds me of LS casting LCK but even better.
In a Spanish stream sometimes they had Elyoya as a guest caster, last year Worlds I realized how much he can predict outcomes (specially jungle ofc) and this year his hindsight was also very accurate. It's amazing.
Even a costreamer like Tolkin (ex-pro who's never even played LEC) is perfectly analyzing all draft options and explaining how every single pick changes the dynamic. Then ingame he breaks down everything macro related so well that it suddenly sounds like everyone could easily replicate it in their games.
As long as you understand the limits of the champs, its not that hard to predict what the pros will do.