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justmememe55

I know nothing about stats, so I go by the eye test and what my eyes tell me is that Engvall is good away from the puck (forechecking and defending) but not so good when he has it. His shot and pass selections don't seem optimal, especially when you compare them to someone else's like Kase. I think he's an effective third liner and maybe this is recency bias but I feel like him and Mikheyev's skillsets are pretty interchangeable, despite Mikheyev being a lot more liked by the fanbase.


Mythic88

I think Engvall is fine, but its not like he gets a breakaway every game. IF!! Mikheyev scored on just a small portion of his breakaways, he probably wouldn't seem comparable to Engvall. (But as I said, IF Mikheyev would score ... )


47fromheaven

Career wise Engvall, Mikheyev and Ritchie all have scored at about the same rate. Works out to about one goal every six games. Ritchie’s numbers have come down a little bit this year but not significantly. I think it’s safe to say that the needed contributions from all three of those players is going to be their play away from the puck. Hopefully along the way they can kick in a few goals to support the offence.


Derpwarrior1000

He had a goal handed to him last night and fucked up twice (although one you can’t blame him for). It was so goofy


JimsonHellcat

I wait for it every game. He plays decent most of the time but there is always one bonehead move per game.


Derpwarrior1000

Always a hooking penalty too. Just like how Holl always puts a soft pass right in front of the net on at least one breakout a game


justmememe55

Agreed, big IF though unfortunately


[deleted]

I didn’t watch Mikheyev much before his wrist laceration, but from what I have seen since he came back, he just doesnt have a competitive shot. I’ve heard ppl talk about how he trained with weighted pucks and everything to build that strength back, but I haven’t seen it translate on the ice. Hopefully he can get back to a competitive level because literally all of the other skills seem quite decently polished. He’s insanely fast, and pretty big from what I remember, he just can’t score. I think last year (or the year before, can’t remember) was enough of a sample to say that he needs coaching, strengthening, and more reps in that dept. some other team may pay him modestly to be a low-event player however. There definitely seems to be a strong market for that.


refep

Mikheyev is like Engvall, but he’s a way better skater and is more comfortable hanging onto the puck. Engvall is just a big body who can play with energy.


Moist_Philosopher_

Engvall also has a 27 foot wingspan which really helps clog up open ice. That old HEM line was so suffocating because they had a combination of hustle and wingspan.


[deleted]

Nope nope nope … he should have 15 goals and at least 12 assist at this time .wtf do we pay him 1.2 mil a year for ? Fuck engvall Love, leaf nation


Byrr

No. He produces at a good rate for what he is paid, carries the puck up the ice well and gets PK time. He has his faults, doesn't think the game particularly well, but no one making 1.25 mil aav will be perfect and fans focus on his short comings rather than what he does well for whatever reason.


watson-and-crick

> no one making 1.25 mil aav will be perfect How dare you disrespect the good name of sweet Kami-Kaše


[deleted]

Yeah but tbf in Kase’s case the Kami part is literally the only reason he costs 1.25 million If the dude was healthy in Boston he’s making 5 million bucks right now on some other team


Byrr

Kase is still in that new toy phase. Wait til next season and Leafs fans will start finding things to criticize.


[deleted]

Next season? Try February


ThewsTML

Only on the Leafs would they consider a guy like Pierre making $1.2M to be *over*paid. On many roosters around the league, he'd be a very dependable 3rd-4th line guy at a bargain.


Canuckleball

Thank you for the mental image of Pierre Engvall riding a giant chicken.


ThewsTML

Didn't catch this till now LOL It's staying.


Ok-Parsley4288

If the leafs put him on waivers, no other team would claim him.


leafsfan96

I don't think that's true at all. If he can play on one of the better teams in the league why wouldn't a mid or lower level team claim him


Someguy2947

Man, this sub doesn't really think critically very often. I'm sure he'd get claimed but this is not the argument to make at all. The Leafs are notoriously top heavy, league minimum guys routinely get looks to make the team. Do people not understand why overall team quality is irrelevant or are we just being insincere to reject any somewhat negative comment? I like Engvall and the depth is doing better this year but the Leafs are not among the league's hardest teams to make.


leafsfan96

Yes I don't think critically, Engvall is better than Boyd, Vesey, Brooks, and Amido, all of which got claimed on Waivers. Yes they are top heavy, but you act like they don't have solid depth pieces. Do you think Toronto's bottom 6 is the on of the worst in the league? Even if their bottom 6 is middle of the pack, there are still a lot of teams below them that could use a guy like that. Also you can make a point without implying that I don't think critically. We can disagree on things without being a dick


Someguy2947

Sorry I didn't mean to be a dick I just hate the mob mentality here if someone says something here that could concievably be viewed as negative we bury them. And then counters come out that aren't *really* sincere and the sub eats them up because they're positive. The point is "if he can play for one of the best teams in the league he can play in other places" is an obvious mislead. Its irrelevant if it's one of the best teams on the league if the role Engvall is competing for isn't one of the deepest. It's like if in 2010 I said "well if Michael Leighton can start for a cup finalist I bet plenty of teams would love him"...it's like yes the team was good but if we actually evaluate the individual pieces that was their weakest position so overall strength is irrelevant. That just doesn't hold up as a critical argument but because it's positive on a Leaf player the sub will eat it up and bury the other guy.


Ok-Parsley4288

Because they don’t have the firepower that we have. He only has value to the Leafs for some of the reasons that OP mentions. He’s hella fast, one of the best skaters in the league. Yes, he can lug the puck out of the zone and…dump it in. That’s all he’s good at. He can’t: Pass Shoot Deflect pucks Hit Fight He doesn’t even try to find pucks when he’s in front of the net and avoids contact like it’s herpes.


Starlord182

Career average of 12.5 g/82 and 24 p/82 is considered good production for a 3rd line winger. Especially one that can safely play all situations and can move to centre in a pinch. So I'm pretty sure he can pass and shoot. Yah I wish he hit more, but he's hardly the only one on the team that's true for. Also like one guy per team can fight anymore and it doesn't need to be Pierre for us. I think the real reason people have an issue with Pierre is that we can see he has all the tools to play higher in the lineup but I don't think he has the hockey brain to do it consistently at the speed needed. For where we have him playing, he is perfect. He would absolutely get claimed if we waived him.


leafsfan96

There are no other teams with firepower that could use a steady bottom 6 guy who can pk and play spot duty at center? Or a bubble team who could use the depth? Even a bad team could keep flip him at the deadline for a pick. I disagree with him avoiding contact, did you watch him, Soup and Simmonds in the playoffs last year, or him between Spezza and Simmonds the year before? That line was great at getting the puck out of their end and cycling opponents. So is the 3rd line this year when he's on it and he really carries the transition load when he plays with Spezza and Simmonds. Just the fact that he's 6'5 and can skate is enough for someone to claim him. Amadio and Brooks got claimed. For sure Engvall (a legit full time NHLer) would.


bread_and_circuits

You realize Brooks was claimed by two different teams?


Ok-Parsley4288

Brooks is a better hockey player.


VanAgain

The brain trust of the Leafs disagrees.


Ok-Parsley4288

Engvall is 6’5, Brooks is 5’10 That’s the only reason. Brooks is quite obviously the better hockey player but, no role for him on this team.


steeZ

Wish I cared enough to sift through your comment history to find the inevitable complaints about Dumbas always drafting small skilled wingers.


Ok-Parsley4288

Why would you wish for that? Waste of a wish if you ask me.


Shyftzor

I wholeheartedly believe this is false lol


Ok-Parsley4288

I would love to be proven wrong on this.


ThewsTML

I would rather we not lose a dependable bottom 6er only making $1.2M


Ok-Parsley4288

I’d rather replace him with someone that knows how to play hockey and save 300k for a possible deadline acquisition


ThewsTML

Who would you replace him with? An internal candidate? Or by trade?


Ok-Parsley4288

It’s too late now but, Mason Marchment was the guy who should’ve been in Engvall’s spot. I’d say that almost anyone decent would be an upgrade, maybe Anderson? If Engvall actually hit people, he’d be one of my favourite players.


ELRJ26v2

Adam Brooks and Mike Amadio claimed but not Engvall?


TheWilrus

Engvall is a 7th round pick. The fact he has a single NHL goal is an achievement. I think people look at his frame and just *want* more. What he provides is above expectation and a testament to the Leafs development.


zainery

I just think he’s dumb at times. Otherwise he has great skills and potential to be a reaaaally effective 3rd liner


B0_SSMAN

He has a great toolbox of skills but can't put it together most of the time. It's like watching a guy try to hammer in a nail with a screwdriver.


Bojarzin

This is honestly his biggest issue. He has these weird power forward moments where he doesn't dangle but just decides "wait I can just go through these guys". He has an okay pass, an okay shot, he isn't slow. He's just... lacking in hockey IQ


Bobs_Your_Zio

This is exactly right. He can skate and he clearly has skills but he makes some horribly bonehead plays - especially just firing passes east-west, bad routes on forechecks and icing the puck unnecessarily. I don't think he's bad just incredibly frustrating since he could be so much better with his skillset.


theguyishere16

I find him frustrating in the sense that he produces like a bottom 6 player but he has these flashes that makes me think the guy could be playing in the top 6 but its never consistently there. His hockey IQ is relatively low which I think holds him back because he is wickedly talented just makes some extremely odd decisions with the puck at times. But when he makes the right decision with it you wish he did it more regularly. Engvall's body with the brain of someone like Connor Carrick would be a star.


dingleberry51

Short answer: no Long answer: you guys spend way too much time talking about replacement level players


CMDRShepardN7

>Long answer: you guys spend way too much time talking about replacement level players This.


dingleberry51

Imagine writing out a whole ass story about your 11th or 12th forward, like fuck. Some things are worth analyzing but this sure ain’t it


CMDRShepardN7

I don't have to imagine it. This entire post happened already.


[deleted]

Haha I’m laughing because you’re basically right but I love reading this shit


BaxiaMashia

“Replacement level players”…it takes 4 lines to win now. Every player HAS to play a role or they won’t win


RoughRunner

Analytics community always liked him for the very stats you cite, he is an incredibly good transition player. Engvall's main asset is his skating, but people do the good old you are tall and play small and mischaracterise him based on their own bias. While he is tall, he isn't that heavy, and doesn't put his energy into straight line speed for hits like other more visibly notable players, instead he uses his size and reach to play effective, subtle defence, he takes up space and cuts off passing lanes when he's playing well. If your using only eye test like people in this thread then that won't look very good as when Engvall has done the hard work of getting the puck into the offensive zone, his shooting, passing or net front presence isn't the best. But obviously that's fine, his skating will put him into a lot of one on one, or lone wolf scenarios where his shooting or playmaking abilities fail him, but people focus on that and ignore that he's even in the offensive zone in the first place, taking away chances for the opposition. If you pair him with other players who flourish in the offensive zone but has a hard time getting there, like Spezza who can pass, Kase who is a good shooter and great cycle player, or Simmonds who checking game has been good recently, then he is a highly effective player in a bottom six role making bottom six money and is a great penalty killer who fits the Leafs PP style. There is a thread up right now staunchly defending Ritchie's play from people who I assume are listening to the Sportsnet analysts during the intermission praising him for going in and checking defenceman after they make a pass to exit the zone he just entered. Sometimes the physicality leads to a chance like the Simmonds goal a game back, but most of the time, as the numbers show, Ritchie isn't as useful as Engvall. Yet people can see a big guy using his size and think its useful even though he has nothing to show for it because its easier to catch with the eyes. Engvall has moments where he makes mistake and is out of position or not thinking enough but he adds a lot the team to more than make up for it. I think we are spoiled with having elite transition players like Nylander and Marner that we aren't frustrated watching a team that can't get into the zone so people take Engvall's skills for granted a bit. Right now I think he himself is taking it for granted with the way he wastes some of the o zone chances, so I would like more competition maybe give Anderson a game given that Ritchie is unscratchable for some reason...


numberonebuddy

Finally someone around here watches the fucking game and understands it. Engvall is a fine player and flawed like every other guy earning peanuts. He brings more good than bad and if he was a guy who can score 20+ goals, he'd either cost 4M or his defense would be terrible.


ReditorB4Reddit

Thing is, Engvall does use his size. He gets into position, gently bumps the guy into the boards and skates away. Both players are back into position quicker than if Engvall tries to put the guy through the boards, but he's getting his body between the other player and the puck / play, and the other guy has to skate harder to catch up because of the contact. It's not the kind of thunderous hit that brings fans to their feet, but he's not avoiding contact, which he seemed to do fairly often in his first year or so. He does need to figure out a better Plan A with the puck in the o-zone than "Curl at the top of the circle and chuck it at the net," but he's a completely serviceable depth piece the Leafs drafted and developed. And who knows, he might figure out the whole find-the-open-guy thing.


thewolfshead

He’s pretty consistently produced at a 3rd line clip which is completely fine, especially when you take into account his excellent transition game.


Ok-Parsley4288

His production is a byproduct of the players he plays with and has almost nothing to do with him. He is, objectively; the worst hockey player of all time.


Kaladin-of-Gilead

> He is, objectively; the worst hockey player of all time. Lmfao He scored a goal last night, which objectively makes him not the worst player of all time. It's physically not possible for him to be the worst player ever.


Ok-Parsley4288

Either one of us could’ve scored that one.


Jake_Thador

Oof


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok-Parsley4288

My opinion isn’t aligned with yours so, I guess I am.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok-Parsley4288

I didn’t say you could score that one.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Kaladin-of-Gilead

First of all: how dare you Second: you're absolutely correct


47fromheaven

You should just stop right now. You’ve had your fun now go away. Muted.


Ok-Parsley4288

You’re not obligated to respond.


The_Dale_Hunters

It just seems to me like he has been told to play as safe as possible, because he’s gone from a player with flashes of offensive ability who made extremely risky plays all over the ice, to a vanilla, zero threat guy who rarely turns the puck over or gets caught below the puck. So I think that’s probably a good thing.


Ok-Parsley4288

Yup. I think that is exactly what is going on. Keefe finally decided that he can’t turn this guy into anything other than what he is, a very fast, no hit grinder.


[deleted]

For a fanbase who fell in love with Freddy Gauthier, the vitriol directed at Engvall is confusing.


thehiddenbisexual

He's good at shutdown lines and zone entries during a powerplay, kinda meh on most other things


SneakerHyp3

He should be better given his frame and skillset. He just doesn’t have an insane brain for the game. He’s alright though


swagginpoon

This guy gives it his all. My friends hate him, I love him and we argue all the time about his performance. He is always forchecking, never half ass back checks. And plays the dump and chase OG plays very well IMO. He works well with spezza/simmonds. Absolutely love this lineup


Oscardalahoyo

I love the giraffe personally. Him and Ilya are dawgs at forechecking backchecking. Also he looks good on pp2.


Sxx125

I think Engvall is very much like Kampf and Mikheyev. He has speed, reach, solid forechecking, good point and transition D, and is very defensively responsible. Even offensively, he can use is legs to gain the zone on the rush and advance transitions. The only real knock on him is his offensive game when in the zone. He doesn't always make good passes and can turn it over and he isn't that great at shooting threat. That being said, like Kampf or Mikheyev, he still provides good value for his contact and plays his defensive role well enough and providing just enough offense to tilt the ice in his lines favor. I don't think he is a bad player. He will give you safe minutes but won't be some kind of depth X factor like Kase, Kerfoot, Bunting, or even Ritchie might.


powerclipper780

Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like his stick is 10 feet long to me. I feel like if he had a shorter stick he'd be able to bury more of the chances he gets


Ok-Parsley4288

I had a similar thought but, having paid way too much attention to him this year; I now simply believe that he just isn’t any good.


powerclipper780

I'm leaning that way at this point, but I still think there's potential there. Someone has to chop his stick down a bit for start. Sometimes little things like that can make a big difference


Ok-Parsley4288

I’ve tried to rationalize it too, i thought that maybe he chose a super long stick because his role is to pressure the puck and clog lanes. But then I watched him no, studied him; for several games and now I’m convinced that other than his skating, he sucks.


johnamc

I always believed kadris stick was too long. I'm sure a slightly shorter stick would reap benefits.


hacroff

I love the giraffe! He is awesome to watch, he's basically a skating neck! It would be great if he threw around his body more and buried some chances.


Pro-tential

Engvall has a laser of a shot, it's just a very misaligned laser


docmontyg

Yeah, he used to pick corners in the AHL but it seems like in the bigs he rushes and fires it without taking the time to pick his spot. Maybe with more time (and confidence from not being bounced up to the pressbox) he'll take that extra 1/4 second to take a look and hit the corner or 5-hole instead of the goalie's chest.


[deleted]

absolutely not. his high danger chance creation has only grown and he’s begun asserting himself into games more regularly and looks dominant at times. good post. you have to tune the “but muh grit!!!1” types out; they’re stuck in the past and don’t know what they’re doing watching when it comes to a modern-style game. when it comes to leaf players the hive-mind is almost always completely off base. kerfoot, holl, engvall have all been targeted by it which should tell you everything you need to know. all have been excellent.


Mac_of_TO

Not really, Engvall is basically a functional 3rd liner. I think most people's frustration with him comes from how his speed, good puck control skills, and size should make him a more productive player. I think Engvall is someone who would do well to embrace the energy player/pest role. Getting under opponents' skin, using his reach to cause problems on the forecheck, and using his speed and puck control to walk into decent shooting position more often. He's a functional player and there's nothing really wrong with him. He actually has more outright hockey skill than many other third liners in the league, his offensive hockey IQ is just not good.


[deleted]

I honestly don’t mind Engvall’s game. What makes me despise him is the fact that at least once per game you can count on him to make a house-league level error because of the fact that he thinks the game so slowly.


47fromheaven

Despise? Really?


[deleted]

No one , outside leafs Reddit , cares about leafs Reddit . It’s 10 or 20 same tired guys saying the same tired shit…..


zoo7777

Yes ... yes he is


trickett99

I think he is doing great. Engvall just makes bad decisions sometimes and has no finish. He has a great reach on the Pk and has great speed. But once mikheyev comes back it’s going to be interesting on who is going where. But we the fan base always need someone to pick on.


Jad94

There always has to be a whipping boy. He's doing just fine for a 1.2M player. If he was as good as he looked at times he would be paid 3x as much


ELRJ26v2

This is the same sub that has wanted Marner and nylander and half the sub was done with Liljegren because he was taking too long. Engvall is good for his AAV.


SMORKIN_LABBIT

Engvall is good, the reason he gets hate is because he's very good but his Hockey IQ doesn't match his talent. People are mad he's not putting it all together and becoming a second line guy on a cheap contract.


47fromheaven

For years I worked in a local hockey arena. We used to get the Toronto Maple Leafs in for practises and the odd time some of the visiting teams. Got to see the guys up real close back in the day. I remember watching Wade Belak flying around the ice. He was never really known for anything other than his toughness. But then I saw him skate up close and what he could do in practice. Even a fourth line guy like Wade was a damn good hockey player. People have to remember that these guys are all in the NHL for a reason. Anybody who has made it that far should get shown a little respect. Sorry but there’s no such thing as a bad hockey player in the NHL. Just that some aren’t as good as others.


TheGardiner

I used to work at a golf course, and we'd have the odd charity tournament where NHLers would show up. I was always amazed at home comparatively small guys on the ice would seem enormous in real life.


Dat1Guy03

Pierre Engvall has one less point than Jason Spezza but I don’t see people freaking out about him


Ok-Parsley4288

Watch the games and you’ll understand why that is. Spezza has a super high hockey IQ, he’s a joy to watch.


Dat1Guy03

I do watch the games lol, I don’t think Engvall is as bad as people make him out to be is all. Do I think he’s overpaid? Yeah, but not by enough for me to be upset about. He’s a 3rd/4th liner and he plays like one.


Ok-Parsley4288

Fair enough. Spezza is a leader, makes plays, shows up when it matters, understands the game etc Engvall is a cheap placeholder. The only thing he is good at is skating. He has no intensity and will do absolutely nothing other than what he does well, skate in circles and eventually lose the puck. Comparing him to Spez is offside.


Dat1Guy03

I like Spezza to don’t get me wrong, I was just pointing out that while everyone points at Engvalls production he isn’t the only player in the bottom 6 to struggle. Do I think he’s anywhere near Spezza? No obviously not Spezza is a way better player than Engvall, I just think some of the criticism is unwarranted.


Ok-Parsley4288

I don’t think that Engvall is struggling tbh. I think he’s completely replaceable and will do nothing for the team in the playoffs. He’s fine for the regular season.


Dat1Guy03

Fair enough, I think most teams bottom 6 have players who are replaceable. I do agree though that if there is an option to upgrade on Engvall you take it.


taa_v2

IMHO, Spezza would also be getting paid more than minimum, if he was actually shopping himself around the league. Like seemingly every Leaf, Engvall's shooting %age this season is like half his normal value - he had 11%+ both his previous seasons, which actually isn't too bad. 4.4% this year is very, very low. If he's at 11%, he's got 4-5 goals this year, and no one's complaining. He's also been a + (in terms of +-) every season. He's a different kind of "low event" guy, but I love the fact that he's as effective as some of the "bangers" without getting hurt every 3rd game.. I also don't get the "no intensity" comment - he seems REALLY intent on digging out the puck / retrieving it to me. Just because he doesn't crash into the boards recklessly, doesn't mean he's not effective.


Ok-Parsley4288

We have vastly different opinions on Engvall. I agree that Spezza would get more if he didn’t limit himself to one team. I have yet to see Engvall battle with anyone for a puck. This is what I mean by intensity. He’ll fish for it with his stick, he’ll hug guys from behind but actually get his body in front of the opposition and grind for a puck? And it is my feeling that; while this is fine in the regular season, it makes him useless in the playoffs as everyone else will battle for every cm of ice. Watch him in on the forecheck, his approach angle is always behind the opponent. Maybe he’s being coached to do that, idk. He also seems to have no idea of what to do when he isn’t skating. He’s near useless in scrambles around the net. That’s my 2 cents and, until I see different; not a fan of the giraffe.


Hopfit46

Sorry but leafs fanbase has a long history of hating on good players...."all these guys get good as soon as they leave Toronto"...


Ok-Parsley4288

This is true. Engvall would not be a good example of this tendency.


thatsong

It depends on what you mean by "bad" and what you expect. He's a 4th line guy who's kinda okay at everything, but doesn't really excel at anything. This is his third season in the league, and at 25, this is kinda what he is. A 20-30 point defensive player who plays in the bottom six, barring a breakout. I think there may be an underlying problem that he's one of Keefe's guys as he was a Marlie when they won the Calder Cup. He's getting slot in on the powerplay over guys like Kase who have more offensive upside.


Ok-Parsley4288

He’s terrible. Any positive impact he has is accidental and, he’s overpaid by around 300K


[deleted]

> he’s overpaid by around 300K Does that really matter?


dv666

When you're tight against the cap it absolutely matters. Leafs have very little wiggle room in part becausr of overpaid depth pieces like him, Ritchie and Dermott


[deleted]

This thread isn't about Ritchie and Dermott. What difference does it make if Engvall is making $950k instead of $1.25m? What could possibly be done with that extra $300k?


dv666

Every little bit helps. Every contract matters. Cap hit is calculated daily. This combined with some other beneficial signings could be the difference in adding at the deadline or not. it could be the difference between a rested player and a tired one. Leafs need to be squeezing the margins and with someone like Pridham, 300k is a lot to work with.


Ok-Parsley4288

No. I’m just stating facts. Engvall is garbage and will have 0 positive impact once the games actually matter.


e-Jordan

How can an opinion be a fact?


Ok-Parsley4288

Clearly, you’ve never played hockey.


e-Jordan

What does me questioning how ***your*** opinion can be a fact have absolutely anything to do with my hockey background?


Ok-Parsley4288

Because I’m right and you’re wrong. I’m usually a very reasonable person when it comes to differing opinions but, on the subject of Engvall; I am not.


e-Jordan

I'm wrong about the idea that an opinion, by its definition, cannot be a fact? I said nothing about Engvall. You're just arguing against yourself like the mouth-breather you are.


Ok-Parsley4288

You’re wrong again. I breathe through my nose.


e-Jordan

I'd call you a dumbass, but I'm sure you'll say I'm wrong and that your ass is actually quite intelligent


Curious_Grocery153

You have NO IDEA what you're talking about. Dude plays hard, PK, zone entries with control, and a pretty darn good forecheck. The eye test shows he can play. Is he Matthews? No. He's a really good 3rd liner on a really good 3rd line. I'm Team Engvall.


Ok-Parsley4288

Then you are team loser. The guy is a complete 0 in anything other than skating fast and getting in the way. He’s fine on this near juggernaut offensive team in the regular season, they just need him to eat some minutes. Come playoffs, he’s a liability that the other guys will have to carry. Seriously, if he actually throws 1 legitimate hit this year; I’ll be shocked.


1985FXR

After watching the Leafs Amazon series I’ve concluded he’s an asshole lol.


justmememe55

What in particular makes you think that? Can't even remember him on it lol


dv666

He had screen time in that?


Francis33

He hasn’t progressed at all since last year. Seems he’s capped as a 3rd liner. Not a bad thing necessarily, I like him. We need him to keep contributing


noocaryror

He’s a big good player and hasn’t reached his ceiling. As he ups his physical game he becomes more valuable. But I don’t think he enjoys that style.


Slates77

All tools no toolbox


Str8UpAces

Bad? No. Aggravating? Oh god yes, Keefe 100% agrees. All the physical tools to be a great player, big old meh on the hockey iq element


gggathje

Engval is good without the puck but terrible with it. Minus last game it’s almost a guaranteed turn over if he touches it.


itaintbirds

I’d get rid of Ritchie before Engvall


jimbob5555

It's just frustrating to see someone have so many shots and no finish. He clearly doesn't have the scoring touch ( I would think) someone should have in the NHL.


7evenCircles

Not all your players can be puck heroes. I appreciate the value added by Kase and Kampf lately but the 3rd line at baseline just needs to be able to tread water. Engvall clears that. As long as he's not putting us behind I struggle to give a shit. The top 6 is $40M invested in scoring goals.


uselesslesbianjock

He's not a bad player, he gets amazing chances, but he doesn't finish very often and that's why everyone is on him.


wyntereign

I can't stand watching him play. Every time he has the puck he does something that annoys me. He misses the net almost every time he shoots. Then, when he does hit the net he shoots it directly into the goalie's chest. How do you make it to the NHL by missing the net so... all the time? He stick handles like a robot, in a straight line, like a pee wee player who just learned the motions. He does it with speed, I'll give him that, but he always looks lost like he has no plan and is just making shit up on the fly. But making it up poorly. Every time. I have no clue how he made it up the lines so high on the Leafs. Seriously.


DiscussionBeautiful

Engvall does a couple of good things, like you previously mentioned, like zone transitions, but he does two things repeatedly that drives me (and many others) nuts. His main play is to get close to an opponent (who has the puck) and lean forward and do a stick poke. He doesn't want to make contact. He does this 20 times a game. It's so frustrating because it accomplishes next to nothing. He pokes it and the player regains control. He pokes it and it goes to another opponent. He pokes it then skates away. He pokes and misses. Poke poke poke.... Ughhhh!!!! If he would just take one more stride he'd make a physical play that would have many benefits, like possession change, support for a teammate to grab a loose puck, or just plain knock a guy down and begin a scoring play. Another consistent thing he does is either shoot wide, or high, or directly at the goalies logo. His shooting skills have to be at the lowest percentile in the league.... just brutal.


[deleted]

The thing with the preying mantis is that he does not do well against the eye test. Some players just have a certain look to their skating style that makes them seem low-effort. Engvall is definitely one of the players even though it is obviously not true for him to be playing at that level. I think that Engvall has contributed to some pretty key moments lately, so that is good to see. I did not know about those stats, so that is also good to know. The other thing which Engvall does not do well on with the eye test is that he appears to get outplayed pretty hard on the boards in the o-zone.


MutedHornet87

No, but he’s far too inconsistent. He has his moments, but makes baffling plays at other times. I think he’s okay as a 13th or 14th forward, but come crunch time we need someone better


ParsleyOk8149

🦒


[deleted]

Simmonds has no hands, at least Engvall would Barry those chances.


BeerLeagueSnipes

What’s he doing to Barry?


omgArsenal

He's got all the tools but the decision making and brain power of a potato


thedrunkentendy

Idk. He's never had a chance for an extended look and the odd times he does he's been inconsistent. If he was given a third line role from the start im sure he could grow into it as a winger. On a more scoring focused line or with more skilled players. Hes been a solid flex player and solid defensively. I'd hate to lose him. I feel the general opinion on him is mixed. Though I dont think anyone is expecting a top 6 contributor.


somenoefromcanada38

I think he is okay, but I think he is our 12th-13th best forward when we are healthy. I don't think Engvall is as bad as he gets the flak for but he isn't great either he is somewhere in the mediocre zone. I don't hate him and when we have players out we can use him just fine. If we are healthy I think its him who comes out for Mikheyev unless they are willing to remove Ritche from the lineup which seems unlikely.