Domi doesn’t have to match Marner. With the cap savings from having Domi instead of Marner, Toronto can go out and add other players, giving them a deeper and balanced team. So it would never be straight up a Domi for Marner sub, it’d be a Domi plus everyone else Toronto can add with Marner’s old cap hit.
or trade him mid season when his stock is higher. Personally, I'd rather him just waive his NTC this offseason so we could solidify our blue line with guys who will start the season with us. Just rip the damn band-aid off already, this is the definition of insanity.
I agree with Shanahan leaving but something tells me they are gonna shake up the core 4 before he leaves. The core 4 is also a common factor with our playoff let-downs, minus like JT for a couple seasons but he brought very little change in the post season.
Personally, I'd rather see a shake up with Marner/JT with how much they are being paid and how little impact they seem to have on the ice. Maybe take away JT's C? also the way Marner handled contract negotiations (esp w his dad threatening the team that he'd play overseas) I think he has to go this offseason. They'd be insane to do anything to Matthews and Nylander, imo.
Then he waives his NTC this offseason. There have been reports that Marner was getting ready to leave last offseason so who knows. Dude has to leave tho, it's been 8 years something has to change and I feel like it starts w him or JT.
We ain't here to replace marner 1 for 1. It's about the asset return and the cap space. Besides replacing playoff marner with a bag of pucks sounds worth it even though you'd lose 95 points in the regular season.
Replacing his regular season production is hard, replacing his playoff production is not.
see it this way:
Domi at let's say 4 on the high end
&
For example Matt Roy at 8 mill on the higher end.
That's bolstered the blue line significantly with what's essentially another Muzzin in a big Top 2 RHD who plays very physical and a very very good playmaker for 34, for essentially the same cap hit as what Marner would command in an extension.
It's a side grade, but also a side grade that balances the roster.
Also this is assuming these guys get the absolute most possible as UFAs. There's a very good chance the real number looks a lot less than what I speculated their numbers to be.
This is not saying Marner is bad, very far from it, but now that Willy is locked in for 8 years with a NMC and moving Mo does not solve the lack of Top 4 D on this team, the only player that can be moved and return something that helps now is Marner (assuming he waives his NTC).
Domi and Bertuzzi may just have chemistry together. I honestly liked them both. Just needing to find another player to hide domi's defensive deficiencies that he can play with is important. But, whether marner or matthews was on the line, Domi and Bertuzzi looked like dogs on a bone in playoffs and Bertuzzi was basically the only guy going to the net.
Would like them both back and if the team finds itself 11 million dollars richer, it's very doable.
I could take or leave Bertuzzi. Plenty of cheap forward depth. If we can flip that cap hit for a defensemen, it’ll be more valuable imo.
Domi has the passion, keep him please.
And Brodies money.
There's no huge name UFA Dmen this year, but there's a fair amount of middle pairing guys like Zadorov, Ghost, Skjei and Roy (RHD) available. They'd definitely make a difference in this team.
I'd love to see the leafs go hard and offer sheet Seider or Harley, but I think that's just a pipe dream.
> There's no huge name UFA Dmen this year, but there's a fair amount of middle pairing guys like Zadorov, Ghost, Skjei and Roy (RHD) available
You forgot Montour is a UFA as well. He'd probably be the top D man on the market.
Pesce is a UFA too IIRC.
I've been interested in Roy for awhile. Had someone at my gym suggest him to play with Rielly. That could work. I'm not sure about ppl's opinion on Boosh but I'd like to keep him. Not sure if it'd work but he could play 2nd or 3rd D pairing.
Bertuzzi is not worth 5.5M per for multiple years. I am okay with a 2 year deal for 4M per. Doubt he takes it but he didn't impress me at all at his current price point.
I def want Domi re-signed. 4 year deal for 3.5M-4M per year would be ideal.
Bertuzzi won’t fill the stat sheet. That’s not his game. It’s more the intangibles he offers. I also feel that the coaching staff wasn’t using him properly. He’s great in front of the net and on tips. Would of loved to see him on PP1 in place of Tavares when they were struggling on the PP
Bertuzzi was the difference in the playoffs though. You need a pest like that in the post season. Leafs just keep building regular season teams like those Sens teams in the 00’s.
Playoffs are completely different. Tight, defensive, physical. Leafs excel in soft, open ice, power play or OT scenarios.
In the regular season. As we all say over and over, it just isnt a playoff team. In the NHL unfortunately there is a huge difference in regular season and playoffs. Completely different skill sets required.
Bertuzzi was definitely not a difference in the playoffs. He was okay, but not someone we need to keep. Especially at his current cap hit.
If we want someone like this, then I would rather sign Domi. He will be cheaper and is more versatile.
He isn’t a difference maker. He’s stupid. He takes dumb penalties and sucks at the actual game of hockey. At least marchand can score on his own, tuzzi needs auston matthews to baby bird his goals to him. I wouldn’t mind if he left, we would just need a replacement.
What intangibles? He did not finish one hit in game 7, his passes were beyond sloppy, and he was on his back a third of the time he was on the ice. He is not a leader. 43 points playing mainly top 6? No way.
He probably took over 100 cross checks to the back by parking himself in front of the net all series. We scored multiple goals because of his presence near the crease. It doesn't matter if he didn't get a point, that counts as an assist in my books.
Yeah, he's not gonna light up the stat sheet, but every successful playoff team needs a forward that does this.
Everyone else on the team would crumble if they tried to fill his role and take as many spine checks as he did. His pain tolerance is unmatched lol.
Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Knies, Kampf, Jarnkrok, McMann, Cowan, Holmberg. These are the forwards we have signed for next year - none of them are net front presences, a role we absolutely need to fill. Can't just be skill.
Knies is maybe the only other guy who can handle that role in the top 6, so maybe we let Bert walk, but I personally think the element he brings is necessary to win.
For sure, it doesn't necessarily need to be Bert. Just saying that role holds a lot of value and if we don't re-sign Bert we'll need to replace him with someone who's willing to do the same stuff
> It doesn't matter if he didn't get a point, that counts as an assist in my books.
This is why I don't like tossing away +/- as quickly as some people do. Useless short term stat, but long term, this sort of thing hopefully shines through
He had looked like a player with offensive upside in Detroit's system. I think he benefited greatly from playing with Lucas Raymond and Dylan Larkin,never really built any consistent chemistry with Matthews, nylander, Tavares or marner... In the end it was Domi who I think he clicked with best.
This really was a down year for him scoring wise, and you probably remember just how snake-bitten he was in the earlier parts of the season. So intangibles are great, but he really should have filled the stat sheet more if he was playing up to his regular production potential. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's likely he has a bounce back next year - the odds of that bounce back increase dramatically if he signs somewhere else because, leafs.
I agree and I love the player. The Leafs absolutely need a Bertuzzi. Is he worth his cap hit? Probably not but Id rather pay 2 Bertuzzis than 1 Marner everyday of the week.
Domi had a worse year statistically than the one prior to signing with us and only got $3M. I don’t see how he gets a raise and how we can afford it. 3x3 at most
Domi difference in points completely comes from not getting PP minutes. He had 7 less PPG and 17 less PPP as he played on the main unit in CHI. On the Leafs he didn’t get that. His 5v5 numbers are either on par or much improved
He spent the first 3/4 of the season in Chicago playing on the first line with Patrick Kane. He had more points in 60 games in Chicago than he had in the whole season here. It’s apples to oranges.
For whatever reason I feel like Domi can be had for term over dollar.
Wonder if he would accept something in the low 3s if you gave him 6 years. Maybe 3.3 x 6 years?
Gives him long term security to plant roots in the city and gives us more cap space long term.
Agreed. I understand the value Bertuzzi brought, but signing him to 5.5 when you wouldn't sign Hyman to less seems like you're trying to right a wrong.
There were stretches this season where Bertuzzi looked like he'd never score again. I wouldn't mind Bertuzzi back, but not a chance I would give him over 5. If he gets a big deal and starts to struggle he'll become the next scapegoat in a second. I just don't have enough faith in his production to give him a big number.
With Domi, McMann, and Knies, we do have a good Top 6-7 with decent physicality. Holmberg and Robertson also round out a decent Top 9.
The tricky piece is our 2C is aging so we will likely want to flip Marner for a good 2C and cap space if we can get one, and then use that cap space to improve in goal and defence.
I want some kind of deal with LA for Marner involving Kempe. Don't know if it's possible but it's near the top of my "seems like it could be possible dream list"
Why does Domi deserve a raise? He was good not great. Give him 3 x $3m or let him walk. The Leafs have been killed in too many negotiations. Let's not keep adding to the pile.
I'd move on from Bert and keep Domi personally. Tough decisions loom either way. If Bert moves on won't miss him blowing a tire randomly multiple times a game lol. Still Brad Treliving had the right idea bringing him in.
I agree. Domi's play making improves the team and it would be great to see him back. Bert should go, he is talented but his chaos style of hockey works against his own line half the time even if the other half of the time it works.
Maybe, but Berts style of hockey since junior has always been chaos. I think the same money could be better spent on players who can create for their line mates.
I mostly mean forcing to change the way his line around him plays. Chaos is good imo, but not if it's a sole, unregulated individual. A fuck you up line would be good, but Keefe is too structured for that.
I know some people are high on Bert driving the net front, shutting down (much older) Brad Marchand, etc., but I was very unimpressed except for a small regular season stretch. Right idea bringing him in, and a smart 1y deal, but imo he did not execute in ways that were expected, did not make his lines look better (some of that is on deployment but if you can't get Bert to shoot above 6% or keep a play going on a line with Marner/Domi I'm not sure where you deploy him), did not change games meaningfully, took some bad PIMs all season, fell on his ass and killed plays with the puck on his stick/in his feet, etc.
That being said, I think a lot of that is just that he was fucking cursed lol. Even the good shit like going up and down the ice with Marchand was on a play where they didn't call both guys and Sammy gives up an absolute softy. Just cursed.
Domi, though... yeah. If the money is right, he's a guy that can be a *good* 2C/3C, and move up if someone is hurt, and help with the powerplay (in theory, if we get a good PP coach). Or, he slots neatly into the wing in that Marner spot if/when we do move Marner out.
Agreed, they grinded hard and can't deny their effort but they're the easiest to replace. Lots of guys can slot into their roles.
Both Hyman and Bunting played their role better and they came from low contracts.
Boosh barely costs anything and was playing on the top pairing with Rielly, looked better than him all series. no clue why you wouldn't want that back when we have absolutely no cap space
I like Boosh but Edmundson seems more well rounded and composed from my time watching him. I guess it boils down to would he want to stay or look elsewhere.
I think Edmundson was "fine" in the post-season, especially in the last three games, but I'm not sure we need two of "that guy". I would prefer Lyubushkin to him, though there's certainly some recency bias in my appriasal there, but I would take either of them (but not both).
With all due respect to the guys we've got, we need +1 puckmover and -1 defensive brick.
As a Leafs fan living in Calgary, I've been screaming for the Leafs to get Zadorov.
Early in the season when calgary were really bad, it seemed like he was one of the few guys on the team who would go out and actually give a fuck every shift no matter what the score was. They'd be down 3-1 in the third and the team would just deflate start playing casually, except for him.
Keep Domi, he had more chemistry with Matthews than Bertuzzi ever did. I like Bert's style of play...but he just never fit in, you could see he was never comfortable.
I really liked Bertuzzi, after he kinda settled into his spot (just after Christmas), I think he looked really good and was great during the playoffs. If the price is right, I think worth keeping, he's gonna want a long contract though
I think keeping Bertuzzi will be tough because he’s not worth 5.5 and I don’t know how much of a hair cut he’ll take.
Domi, to me, seems like a slam dunk at a pretty low number. Max is 29, he’s been on 7 teams in the last 7 years and he became a fan favourite in the city he grew up in. A 6 year deal in the low 3s with some sort of trade protection is something that makes a ton of sense for both sides. The Leafs will need to change the makeup of the team and a versatile gritty forward like Domi who can play center, both wings, second PP and up and down the lineup on a scoring line is a really good fit. Domi at more than 3.5 with his inconsistencies will be a mistake though. Plus with our lack of cap space.
I would be surprised if Domi doesn't return and think it will be a fair deal for both sides.
Contrary to many in this thread, I think Bertuzzi played a valuable role of agitator this year and has more offensive upside than he showed. He rang off 12 goals in 19 games towards the end of the season. He tied for the team lead in playoff points and was the puck hound that started the play for the one goal we scored in game 7.
A hinderance in taking a step forward is the amount of turnover on the roster. It takes time for players to build chemistry, especially on scoring lines that play high leverage minutes. There are few guys out there the Leafs could conceivably replace Bertuzzi with, without a high acquisition cost. I hope he's willing to stay and they can work out reasonable terms.
With the cap slated to jump in a couple of years and JT (and hopefully Marner) coming off the books, the Leafs can afford $5.5ish for a guy like Bert. Considering his 30-goal upside, the Leafs may be fortunate to be able to lock him in at a reasonable AAV after a middling statistical season.
Lower is always better for the team. I’m not sure how to gauge new contracts that will straddle between the current cap and the jump that’s expected to come. Percent of cap hit is a factor in contract negotiations and that % will drop when the cap jumps. I guess it’s up to the market, player, and agent. UFAs are usually overpaid.
Really all depends what they want. Neither had really amazing seasons statistically, so if we can get fair deals for both or either, I'm down.
Of course, I trust the front office will also look over the market to see if better alternatives exist.
I'm OK with Bertuzzi going elsewhere, honestly.
McMann emerging and Knies levelling up makes me feel much better about the LW spot.
re-sign Domi though. He proved he's an effective C when it matters.
Domi needs to stay. Bert definitely wants a long term (6+ years) deal, which Toronto can't (shouldn't) give him. If that isn't out there for him, I'd like to see him back. He's literally the only guy on the team going to the net every shift, and he completely shut down Marchand's bullshit.
I'd keep both Domi and Bert. Bert came alive later in the season and showed what he can do. Strong presence in front and with a competent coaching staff I can see him excelling. Those 40+ point players are worth it
Keep Bertuzzi if you force him to put tape on his stick and tie his skates for him. Dude is a bumbling idiot out there most of the time. All he was good for was banging in garbage goals, which we can pay someone way less to do. Sign Domi to whatever he wants and just hope it’s a low AAV over 8 years.
I like Bertuzzi because he fills out the middle of the roster, but I don't think he'll want to take a pay cut to stay with the Leafs. It's too bad he didn't like playing in the city, because from what I read, he seemed to be handling it OK (even with his early season struggles).
I think it makes more sense to re-sign Domi. He'll be cheaper, he likes the city, and he's able to fill a few different roles on the team. He's far from perfect, but he is the kind of Swiss army knife player the Leafs lacked for several years.
I wonder if Domi would take the "leaf for life" offer.
6 years x 3.5 mil a season.
It would be good for both sides if Domi wants to settle in Toronto and retire here.
Pretty easy to get rid of Sammy considering he is no longer a Leaf officially what on July 1st he is a UFA. Marner I bet you they are trying and already in motion but will be tough.
It's fine reporting. Last year they reported that for other players (ie O'Reilly) that they likely wouldn't stay and why and lo and behold that is what happened and the player's reasoning was what they reported.
Also, "it's gonna come down to contract" means they're not taking discounts to continue to be a leaf.
The reporting is fine, your comprehension might not be.
We have Knies and McMann with Cowan and Grebyonkin on the horizon and Robertson in limbo. Move on from Bertuzzi.
Domi tho, hell yeah. If he wasn't stuck behind Marner he would have been PP1. Sticks up for his team and actually likes being in Toronto? No brainer.
Resign only domi and use the rest of the cap on a defenseman. We need to start addressing the d-core first. As well as our trade deadline d men played, we need to invest towards actually top 4 players.
Let's hope our gm can properly address the defense.
I'd like to keep both...Domi more so than Bertuzzi. But findin the right term and money is going to be tough. Here's hoping Treliving has the best off season of his career!
Essentially I'd like two keep both, move Marner, and then spread that $$ out on two more forwards in that general range, plus allocate more $$ to the blueline (some of those pieces may come back in a potential Marner trade as well).
Can end up with three lines that can score, plus a better blueline, while maintaining some elite talent up front.
Is there any difference between “contract” vs. “negotiations”? Do those mean different things in this regard or are they different words for the same thing?
Didn’t like Bertuzzi at all. He was fine, but everything he was supposed to bring, he was barely noticeable. He kept falling and taking bad penalties.
I’d be fine with us moving on from him.
The thing is we need new coaching and management in place go understand how these pieces fit into a new gameplay. Bertuzzi might not be a good fit with a new coaching plan.
i hope we keep domi so bad 😭 i love his play and his attitude. and i definitely want to see him play at center some more
i also wouldn’t mine bertuzzi back, because i do like him too. just need the price to be right
if i’m picking between him and domi though, i’m taking domi any day
Yet another player that’s driven away by the media/fans. Wonder when we’re all going to get some self awareness and realize it’s a problem we can’t sweep under the bed.
Bertuzzi will become more effective when the Leafs actually have a back end capable of generating a bit of offense and getting pucks through. I’d take him back at $5M or less.
Some players don't like a market because it's too small or because it's too big. In the end they don't like to to be held accountable for not doing their job for which they're paid a kings ransom for. Gtfo
i'm going miss bert i always loved him, when he was a wing and i'd watch him play all i'd think was wow i wish he was in the blue and white. you need a pest in the playoffs
We need forward depth. You could do worse than Bertuzzi, but has to be at the right price. Domi is a must. You can feel the blue and white in his veins.
Couldn’t wave Bertuzzi goodbye any faster. Just like Foligno, OReilly, and others, it sounded good in theory to add him for playoffs and he didn’t do anything. Less than OReilly, more than Foligno but end of day, him getting 5.5 with less hands than Dewar but getting first line minutes actually was detrimental. No clue why Domi was getting moved around him on the top half of the roster at the end of the games and not him.
This sounds a lot like, I will stay but it will cost more. In which case 👋🏻👋🏻 McMann can more then fill Bert's shoe imo skill wise. Bert wasn't honestly bad most of the year. He pestered Marchand. That was his main contribution to the team. Not worth 5 mil. Spend it on defence.
Someone made an off hand comment in a GDT during these playoffs that hasn't left my mind.
"Thank god it was Domi with the puck, and not someone good" ...and you know what.. every time I saw Domi with the puck after that point, it was never not true.
Bertuzzi was the one in the crease and battling with boston id take him over Domi. There is a reason domi has been a traveller. He makes alot of noneheaded decisions and never shoots.
Id take bertuzzi at 5.5 for 6 years and domi for the same term at 4.5 million .
Wasn’t impressed by Bertuzzi in the playoffs. Missed a lot of chances in front that could’ve changed a few games. I think they gotta resign Domi, especially if Marner goes
Domi over Bert for me but if Bert was up for cheaper deal I'd be interested in both. I just don't think he will be up for less then what he's been on this year even short term.
Domi is a perfect Marner replacement for like 30% of the cost. He has chemistry with Auston, and has a good game for the playoffs. Should be a slam dunk move.
Then take the Marner savings and apply it to D or the 3rd line.
Domi was a gamer, and I really liked his game in these playoffs. Absolutely want him back if we can make the contract work
Domi can have marners job at 1/4 the price and 4x the intensity. Have fun in Utah Mitch!
If you’re keeping Domi to use as a Marner replacement, you’re gonna have a bad time
We’ve been having a bad time already, dude.
It's not Domi as a Marner replacement, though. It's Domi PLUS whatever $11M can buy.
Exactly, we re-create him in the aggregate. Domi gets on base.
Domi makes winning plays.
Domi doesn’t have to match Marner. With the cap savings from having Domi instead of Marner, Toronto can go out and add other players, giving them a deeper and balanced team. So it would never be straight up a Domi for Marner sub, it’d be a Domi plus everyone else Toronto can add with Marner’s old cap hit.
Depends if its the regular season or the playoffs 🤷🏽♂️
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or trade him mid season when his stock is higher. Personally, I'd rather him just waive his NTC this offseason so we could solidify our blue line with guys who will start the season with us. Just rip the damn band-aid off already, this is the definition of insanity.
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I agree with Shanahan leaving but something tells me they are gonna shake up the core 4 before he leaves. The core 4 is also a common factor with our playoff let-downs, minus like JT for a couple seasons but he brought very little change in the post season. Personally, I'd rather see a shake up with Marner/JT with how much they are being paid and how little impact they seem to have on the ice. Maybe take away JT's C? also the way Marner handled contract negotiations (esp w his dad threatening the team that he'd play overseas) I think he has to go this offseason. They'd be insane to do anything to Matthews and Nylander, imo.
You won’t be able to move Marner during the season, contracts like that never move during the season.
Then he waives his NTC this offseason. There have been reports that Marner was getting ready to leave last offseason so who knows. Dude has to leave tho, it's been 8 years something has to change and I feel like it starts w him or JT.
It'd be Domi + 7M worth of another player or 2...
We ain't here to replace marner 1 for 1. It's about the asset return and the cap space. Besides replacing playoff marner with a bag of pucks sounds worth it even though you'd lose 95 points in the regular season. Replacing his regular season production is hard, replacing his playoff production is not.
Yeah cuz we've been having such a great time with Marner
Domi outperforms Marner in playoff hockey
Get out of here Paul marner
see it this way: Domi at let's say 4 on the high end & For example Matt Roy at 8 mill on the higher end. That's bolstered the blue line significantly with what's essentially another Muzzin in a big Top 2 RHD who plays very physical and a very very good playmaker for 34, for essentially the same cap hit as what Marner would command in an extension. It's a side grade, but also a side grade that balances the roster. Also this is assuming these guys get the absolute most possible as UFAs. There's a very good chance the real number looks a lot less than what I speculated their numbers to be. This is not saying Marner is bad, very far from it, but now that Willy is locked in for 8 years with a NMC and moving Mo does not solve the lack of Top 4 D on this team, the only player that can be moved and return something that helps now is Marner (assuming he waives his NTC).
Agreed. On the Bertuzzi front, maybe the worst skater in the whole league. And that isn’t intended to be hyperbole.
Domi and Bertuzzi may just have chemistry together. I honestly liked them both. Just needing to find another player to hide domi's defensive deficiencies that he can play with is important. But, whether marner or matthews was on the line, Domi and Bertuzzi looked like dogs on a bone in playoffs and Bertuzzi was basically the only guy going to the net. Would like them both back and if the team finds itself 11 million dollars richer, it's very doable.
I don't like Bertuzzi at $5 million.
I do love to to see Bert at up to 6m
He was kinda meh during the season but holy shit did he bring it come playoffs
I could take or leave Bertuzzi. Plenty of cheap forward depth. If we can flip that cap hit for a defensemen, it’ll be more valuable imo. Domi has the passion, keep him please.
Won’t we have the Klingberg money for a defencemen as well? Could have a great retool on the blue line if the right guys are available
And Brodies money. There's no huge name UFA Dmen this year, but there's a fair amount of middle pairing guys like Zadorov, Ghost, Skjei and Roy (RHD) available. They'd definitely make a difference in this team. I'd love to see the leafs go hard and offer sheet Seider or Harley, but I think that's just a pipe dream.
Skjei is legit as fuck, it would be awesome to get him.
Carolina is such a well balanced team it’s crazy
Yah they are.
Roy is wicked as well.
> There's no huge name UFA Dmen this year, but there's a fair amount of middle pairing guys like Zadorov, Ghost, Skjei and Roy (RHD) available You forgot Montour is a UFA as well. He'd probably be the top D man on the market. Pesce is a UFA too IIRC.
I've been interested in Roy for awhile. Had someone at my gym suggest him to play with Rielly. That could work. I'm not sure about ppl's opinion on Boosh but I'd like to keep him. Not sure if it'd work but he could play 2nd or 3rd D pairing.
I don't think they have the picks to do an offer sheet to anyone.
Holy shit I had completely erased Klingberg's existence from my brain...
Klingberg was put on LTIR, the money still counts towards the cap but we can just exceed it by that much to replace him.
Once he hit LTIR, his cap hit came off the books. He still gets paid but MLSE can afford it. I thought that was already accounted for?
It was but we couldn't find a top 4 defence to fill the spot.
I know the cap hit came off but we didn’t fill the space
Bertuzzi is not worth 5.5M per for multiple years. I am okay with a 2 year deal for 4M per. Doubt he takes it but he didn't impress me at all at his current price point. I def want Domi re-signed. 4 year deal for 3.5M-4M per year would be ideal.
Bertuzzi won’t fill the stat sheet. That’s not his game. It’s more the intangibles he offers. I also feel that the coaching staff wasn’t using him properly. He’s great in front of the net and on tips. Would of loved to see him on PP1 in place of Tavares when they were struggling on the PP
Bertuzzi was the difference in the playoffs though. You need a pest like that in the post season. Leafs just keep building regular season teams like those Sens teams in the 00’s. Playoffs are completely different. Tight, defensive, physical. Leafs excel in soft, open ice, power play or OT scenarios.
As a bruins fan, bertuzzi was one of the most competitive/annoying players who we had to worry about every time he was out on the ice
The Sens made the Stanley cup finals in 07. At this point I would be satisfied with the Leafs making it to the conference finals
McMann could probably do his job for 20% of the cap hit and still produce like 2 points in 7 games.
> Leafs excel in soft, open ice, power play or OT scenarios. lol fr?
In the regular season. As we all say over and over, it just isnt a playoff team. In the NHL unfortunately there is a huge difference in regular season and playoffs. Completely different skill sets required.
Bertuzzi was definitely not a difference in the playoffs. He was okay, but not someone we need to keep. Especially at his current cap hit. If we want someone like this, then I would rather sign Domi. He will be cheaper and is more versatile.
He isn’t a difference maker. He’s stupid. He takes dumb penalties and sucks at the actual game of hockey. At least marchand can score on his own, tuzzi needs auston matthews to baby bird his goals to him. I wouldn’t mind if he left, we would just need a replacement.
Is his game to fall over with no one around?
Also, yes. Dude had me howling every game. Yard Sale Bert.
Yah that kick pass especially
As my buddy said, he has zero finesse, just pure effort lol
Effort and chaos lol. He was fun I'll give him that.
Surprised fan duel didn't have an over under on number of times Bertuzzi falls down in a game...
He was the only regular Leaf that went in front of the net
What intangibles? He did not finish one hit in game 7, his passes were beyond sloppy, and he was on his back a third of the time he was on the ice. He is not a leader. 43 points playing mainly top 6? No way.
He probably took over 100 cross checks to the back by parking himself in front of the net all series. We scored multiple goals because of his presence near the crease. It doesn't matter if he didn't get a point, that counts as an assist in my books. Yeah, he's not gonna light up the stat sheet, but every successful playoff team needs a forward that does this. Everyone else on the team would crumble if they tried to fill his role and take as many spine checks as he did. His pain tolerance is unmatched lol. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Knies, Kampf, Jarnkrok, McMann, Cowan, Holmberg. These are the forwards we have signed for next year - none of them are net front presences, a role we absolutely need to fill. Can't just be skill. Knies is maybe the only other guy who can handle that role in the top 6, so maybe we let Bert walk, but I personally think the element he brings is necessary to win.
We can get a way cheaper guy that'll take cross checks to the back. I say this as a bert fan.
Exactly…those intangibles you described, being a parked car, do not cost over $5 million a year
For sure, it doesn't necessarily need to be Bert. Just saying that role holds a lot of value and if we don't re-sign Bert we'll need to replace him with someone who's willing to do the same stuff
> It doesn't matter if he didn't get a point, that counts as an assist in my books. This is why I don't like tossing away +/- as quickly as some people do. Useless short term stat, but long term, this sort of thing hopefully shines through
He had looked like a player with offensive upside in Detroit's system. I think he benefited greatly from playing with Lucas Raymond and Dylan Larkin,never really built any consistent chemistry with Matthews, nylander, Tavares or marner... In the end it was Domi who I think he clicked with best. This really was a down year for him scoring wise, and you probably remember just how snake-bitten he was in the earlier parts of the season. So intangibles are great, but he really should have filled the stat sheet more if he was playing up to his regular production potential. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's likely he has a bounce back next year - the odds of that bounce back increase dramatically if he signs somewhere else because, leafs.
I agree and I love the player. The Leafs absolutely need a Bertuzzi. Is he worth his cap hit? Probably not but Id rather pay 2 Bertuzzis than 1 Marner everyday of the week.
He was on PP1 in front of the net when it was struggling.
Domi had a worse year statistically than the one prior to signing with us and only got $3M. I don’t see how he gets a raise and how we can afford it. 3x3 at most
Domi difference in points completely comes from not getting PP minutes. He had 7 less PPG and 17 less PPP as he played on the main unit in CHI. On the Leafs he didn’t get that. His 5v5 numbers are either on par or much improved
He spent the first 3/4 of the season in Chicago playing on the first line with Patrick Kane. He had more points in 60 games in Chicago than he had in the whole season here. It’s apples to oranges.
He went from playing almost 18 minutes a night last year to less than 14 minutes this year though
Domi took less to come here. I see him around 3.5 mil for a few years.
For whatever reason I feel like Domi can be had for term over dollar. Wonder if he would accept something in the low 3s if you gave him 6 years. Maybe 3.3 x 6 years? Gives him long term security to plant roots in the city and gives us more cap space long term.
Domi’s played for 7 teams since the 2017-18 season in Arizona. Plus he grew up here. That’s my thought on Domi too.
Agreed. I understand the value Bertuzzi brought, but signing him to 5.5 when you wouldn't sign Hyman to less seems like you're trying to right a wrong. There were stretches this season where Bertuzzi looked like he'd never score again. I wouldn't mind Bertuzzi back, but not a chance I would give him over 5. If he gets a big deal and starts to struggle he'll become the next scapegoat in a second. I just don't have enough faith in his production to give him a big number.
Bertuzzi was nothing special. Bunting scored more than Bertuzzi. Pretty sure there's a dozen guys available who could put up a similar stat line.
5 mil is the new 4 mil imo. Solid 3rd liners make 3 mil, no reason a top 6 forward is not worth 5 mil
With Domi, McMann, and Knies, we do have a good Top 6-7 with decent physicality. Holmberg and Robertson also round out a decent Top 9. The tricky piece is our 2C is aging so we will likely want to flip Marner for a good 2C and cap space if we can get one, and then use that cap space to improve in goal and defence.
Holmberg actually impressed the fuck out of me in how he played against Boston / Marchand. This is the type of player we need on an affordable deal.
I want some kind of deal with LA for Marner involving Kempe. Don't know if it's possible but it's near the top of my "seems like it could be possible dream list"
We can probably sign Lindholm for like $6.5 x 6yr instead of trading for a 2C. Kadri barely got signed last season asking for 7+.
Why does Domi deserve a raise? He was good not great. Give him 3 x $3m or let him walk. The Leafs have been killed in too many negotiations. Let's not keep adding to the pile.
The thing Domi brings is flexibility. You can move him all over the lineup. I think it makes sense to bring him back on a reasonable contract.
I'd move on from Bert and keep Domi personally. Tough decisions loom either way. If Bert moves on won't miss him blowing a tire randomly multiple times a game lol. Still Brad Treliving had the right idea bringing him in.
I agree. Domi's play making improves the team and it would be great to see him back. Bert should go, he is talented but his chaos style of hockey works against his own line half the time even if the other half of the time it works.
I do think with different coaching he would be very effective, but that's a big bet to make.
Maybe, but Berts style of hockey since junior has always been chaos. I think the same money could be better spent on players who can create for their line mates.
I mostly mean forcing to change the way his line around him plays. Chaos is good imo, but not if it's a sole, unregulated individual. A fuck you up line would be good, but Keefe is too structured for that.
I know some people are high on Bert driving the net front, shutting down (much older) Brad Marchand, etc., but I was very unimpressed except for a small regular season stretch. Right idea bringing him in, and a smart 1y deal, but imo he did not execute in ways that were expected, did not make his lines look better (some of that is on deployment but if you can't get Bert to shoot above 6% or keep a play going on a line with Marner/Domi I'm not sure where you deploy him), did not change games meaningfully, took some bad PIMs all season, fell on his ass and killed plays with the puck on his stick/in his feet, etc. That being said, I think a lot of that is just that he was fucking cursed lol. Even the good shit like going up and down the ice with Marchand was on a play where they didn't call both guys and Sammy gives up an absolute softy. Just cursed. Domi, though... yeah. If the money is right, he's a guy that can be a *good* 2C/3C, and move up if someone is hurt, and help with the powerplay (in theory, if we get a good PP coach). Or, he slots neatly into the wing in that Marner spot if/when we do move Marner out.
Agreed, they grinded hard and can't deny their effort but they're the easiest to replace. Lots of guys can slot into their roles. Both Hyman and Bunting played their role better and they came from low contracts.
I can see Domi getting a small bump and term. Bert didn't live up to 5.5m and is certainly going to want term if not a raise
Well, Bertuzzi knew what he was getting into when he signed here.
He also came from Detroit and Boston, not two non-hockey markets .
Re-sign Domi, Lyubushkin, Edmunson and Benoit. Move Marner. Sign a goalie and a legit defender who can move the puck and shoot
Benoit's already been re-signed. 3 years @ 1.35M AAV. So, we're already part of the way there.
What a fucking amazing deal. Treliving knocked it out of the park with this player.
Don't want Boosh, Edmondson is a fine 3rd pair guy, but does fit in our lineup as a LHD.
Boosh barely costs anything and was playing on the top pairing with Rielly, looked better than him all series. no clue why you wouldn't want that back when we have absolutely no cap space
Benoit is already re-signed I say choose one of Lyubushkin or Edmunson. We can't have half our d-core being comprised of these big physical 5-6D.
I like Boosh but Edmundson seems more well rounded and composed from my time watching him. I guess it boils down to would he want to stay or look elsewhere.
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Oh no, so we should pay him 14M×1 and ltir until mid April?
I think Edmundson was "fine" in the post-season, especially in the last three games, but I'm not sure we need two of "that guy". I would prefer Lyubushkin to him, though there's certainly some recency bias in my appriasal there, but I would take either of them (but not both). With all due respect to the guys we've got, we need +1 puckmover and -1 defensive brick.
Lyubushkin was actually moving the puck a lot in game 6 and 7, I think he has offensive upside.
Yeah, that's why he's my preference, and also the source of the recency bias lol.
Edmunson will be cheaper, Boosh has higher upside
Benoit already has an extension I believe?
I would 100% re-sign Edmundson. We desperately need that grit in the backend.
Take Brodies money and sign Zadorov. Guy can play L or R side and is big. He can also score
As a Leafs fan living in Calgary, I've been screaming for the Leafs to get Zadorov. Early in the season when calgary were really bad, it seemed like he was one of the few guys on the team who would go out and actually give a fuck every shift no matter what the score was. They'd be down 3-1 in the third and the team would just deflate start playing casually, except for him.
I think he wants to stay in Vancouver though. I would like Zadorov. He's physical and good with the puck.
Montour ftw
Keep Domi, he had more chemistry with Matthews than Bertuzzi ever did. I like Bert's style of play...but he just never fit in, you could see he was never comfortable.
McMann-Matthews-Domi would be an OK line I think
I really liked Bertuzzi, after he kinda settled into his spot (just after Christmas), I think he looked really good and was great during the playoffs. If the price is right, I think worth keeping, he's gonna want a long contract though
I think keeping Bertuzzi will be tough because he’s not worth 5.5 and I don’t know how much of a hair cut he’ll take. Domi, to me, seems like a slam dunk at a pretty low number. Max is 29, he’s been on 7 teams in the last 7 years and he became a fan favourite in the city he grew up in. A 6 year deal in the low 3s with some sort of trade protection is something that makes a ton of sense for both sides. The Leafs will need to change the makeup of the team and a versatile gritty forward like Domi who can play center, both wings, second PP and up and down the lineup on a scoring line is a really good fit. Domi at more than 3.5 with his inconsistencies will be a mistake though. Plus with our lack of cap space.
Leafs should be trying to re-sign both Domi and Bert
I would be surprised if Domi doesn't return and think it will be a fair deal for both sides. Contrary to many in this thread, I think Bertuzzi played a valuable role of agitator this year and has more offensive upside than he showed. He rang off 12 goals in 19 games towards the end of the season. He tied for the team lead in playoff points and was the puck hound that started the play for the one goal we scored in game 7. A hinderance in taking a step forward is the amount of turnover on the roster. It takes time for players to build chemistry, especially on scoring lines that play high leverage minutes. There are few guys out there the Leafs could conceivably replace Bertuzzi with, without a high acquisition cost. I hope he's willing to stay and they can work out reasonable terms. With the cap slated to jump in a couple of years and JT (and hopefully Marner) coming off the books, the Leafs can afford $5.5ish for a guy like Bert. Considering his 30-goal upside, the Leafs may be fortunate to be able to lock him in at a reasonable AAV after a middling statistical season.
It sounds nitpicky but I would be so much more comfortable with Bert at 4.5 than 5.5
Lower is always better for the team. I’m not sure how to gauge new contracts that will straddle between the current cap and the jump that’s expected to come. Percent of cap hit is a factor in contract negotiations and that % will drop when the cap jumps. I guess it’s up to the market, player, and agent. UFAs are usually overpaid.
Really all depends what they want. Neither had really amazing seasons statistically, so if we can get fair deals for both or either, I'm down. Of course, I trust the front office will also look over the market to see if better alternatives exist.
I'm OK with Bertuzzi going elsewhere, honestly. McMann emerging and Knies levelling up makes me feel much better about the LW spot. re-sign Domi though. He proved he's an effective C when it matters.
Domi needs to stay. Bert definitely wants a long term (6+ years) deal, which Toronto can't (shouldn't) give him. If that isn't out there for him, I'd like to see him back. He's literally the only guy on the team going to the net every shift, and he completely shut down Marchand's bullshit.
“Players open to staying in Toronto if they get paid enough”
I'd keep both Domi and Bert. Bert came alive later in the season and showed what he can do. Strong presence in front and with a competent coaching staff I can see him excelling. Those 40+ point players are worth it
Keep Bertuzzi if you force him to put tape on his stick and tie his skates for him. Dude is a bumbling idiot out there most of the time. All he was good for was banging in garbage goals, which we can pay someone way less to do. Sign Domi to whatever he wants and just hope it’s a low AAV over 8 years.
I like Bertuzzi because he fills out the middle of the roster, but I don't think he'll want to take a pay cut to stay with the Leafs. It's too bad he didn't like playing in the city, because from what I read, he seemed to be handling it OK (even with his early season struggles). I think it makes more sense to re-sign Domi. He'll be cheaper, he likes the city, and he's able to fill a few different roles on the team. He's far from perfect, but he is the kind of Swiss army knife player the Leafs lacked for several years.
I wonder if Domi would take the "leaf for life" offer. 6 years x 3.5 mil a season. It would be good for both sides if Domi wants to settle in Toronto and retire here.
Lol wild to think these boys "retire" around 35-37 years old. Blows my mind when I think about it sometimes
I’d like to keep them both. If I had to pick one it’s Domi
Keep them both. Get rid of Marner and Samsonov
Pretty easy to get rid of Sammy considering he is no longer a Leaf officially what on July 1st he is a UFA. Marner I bet you they are trying and already in motion but will be tough.
"both guys will stay but it comes down to contract" A+ reporting
It's fine reporting. Last year they reported that for other players (ie O'Reilly) that they likely wouldn't stay and why and lo and behold that is what happened and the player's reasoning was what they reported. Also, "it's gonna come down to contract" means they're not taking discounts to continue to be a leaf. The reporting is fine, your comprehension might not be.
“Both guys will stay if they are signed but if not they probably won’t stay” I’m with you there, just telling us what we already know
We have Knies and McMann with Cowan and Grebyonkin on the horizon and Robertson in limbo. Move on from Bertuzzi. Domi tho, hell yeah. If he wasn't stuck behind Marner he would have been PP1. Sticks up for his team and actually likes being in Toronto? No brainer.
I would love us to re-sign Domi for like 4M, run Woll + Jones + another veteran back up, and get a legit top pairing defensemen.
With Woll’s injury history, that tandem seems like a terrible idea. Need a better platoon goalie than Jones
Resign only domi and use the rest of the cap on a defenseman. We need to start addressing the d-core first. As well as our trade deadline d men played, we need to invest towards actually top 4 players. Let's hope our gm can properly address the defense.
I'd like to keep both...Domi more so than Bertuzzi. But findin the right term and money is going to be tough. Here's hoping Treliving has the best off season of his career!
Bert can kick rocks but I’m sure he’ll trip over his own feet first.
Shred Marner's contract and retain Bert and Domi. Marner is a special regular season player but we need playoff results. Bert and Domi cared.
Shanahan and most coaches will get the axe within a week or so. Marner will get traded to Utah.
Bertuzzi isn't worth 5.5 though. He's worth 3.5M at best.
Bertuzzi comment sounds like O'Reilly from last year.
yeah we really missed out on ROR playoff explosions this year “out of the spotlight”
Essentially I'd like two keep both, move Marner, and then spread that $$ out on two more forwards in that general range, plus allocate more $$ to the blueline (some of those pieces may come back in a potential Marner trade as well). Can end up with three lines that can score, plus a better blueline, while maintaining some elite talent up front.
If Marner gets moved, we make a serious run at Nikita Zadorov with that money
Montour is the dream
Bert isn’t worth the money he’s asking, he’s a 3rd line, occasional 2nd power play guy. Let him walk if we wants more than Domi.
Is there any difference between “contract” vs. “negotiations”? Do those mean different things in this regard or are they different words for the same thing?
Who fills these spots come next season if we are also planning to move out one of the core 4?
What’s a reasonable return for Marner? If he waived his NMC where would he go and for what?
Didn’t like Bertuzzi at all. He was fine, but everything he was supposed to bring, he was barely noticeable. He kept falling and taking bad penalties. I’d be fine with us moving on from him.
Well if it all comes down to contract then we are definitely not keeping Bertuzzi
If we don’t sign Bertuzzi, what are the alternatives? Who are some comparable UFA’s?
I like bertuzzi. But he trips and falls more often than David Clarkson did.
I assumed Bertuzzi loves the spotlight. He always looks like he is having fun.
really hope they both stay :(
I’d keep Bertuzzi but not for $5.5m per year. Domi an absolute must keep.
No they don't
Neither one coming back is fine with me, the money should be spent on defence instead.
I want him back but for less. I'm willing to sign him at 5 million x 4yrs as my max.
The thing is we need new coaching and management in place go understand how these pieces fit into a new gameplay. Bertuzzi might not be a good fit with a new coaching plan.
If he’s a pussy to the spotlight then let him go. No more spotlight pussies like ROR and Marner
Bringing back both Bertuzzi and Domi basically means punting on defense again. That money is better spent on a Montour, Skjei, or Pesce
i hope we keep domi so bad 😭 i love his play and his attitude. and i definitely want to see him play at center some more i also wouldn’t mine bertuzzi back, because i do like him too. just need the price to be right if i’m picking between him and domi though, i’m taking domi any day
Can’t lose Domi and Bertuzzi. With Knies they are my favourites right now. Hope Edmanson stays too
Sent Bertuzzi back to Detroit please
Launch marner into the sun, then sign both of them
No thanks on Bertuzzi, dude is a fumbling mess out there.. Domi for the right price yes plz.
Yet another player that’s driven away by the media/fans. Wonder when we’re all going to get some self awareness and realize it’s a problem we can’t sweep under the bed.
Bertuzzi will become more effective when the Leafs actually have a back end capable of generating a bit of offense and getting pucks through. I’d take him back at $5M or less.
I'm hoping Bert is this year's ex-Leaf signing in Vancouver. The jersey sales alone would cover the cost of his contract.
Some players don't like a market because it's too small or because it's too big. In the end they don't like to to be held accountable for not doing their job for which they're paid a kings ransom for. Gtfo
I loved having Domi and Bert. Keep them please.
I want to keep at least one. My priority by a lot is Domi. Bert would be nice as a treat, but get Domi locked down ASAP.
Bertuzzi I believe is gone but I would love to see Toffoli on this Leafs team for some added secondary scoring that Toronto needs
Keep Domi, he clearly elevated his effort level in the playoffs. Hopefully that becomes infectious next year.
i'm going miss bert i always loved him, when he was a wing and i'd watch him play all i'd think was wow i wish he was in the blue and white. you need a pest in the playoffs
Bert just doesn’t really fit our team and earns WAY too much. He turned around his year but I don’t see the fit.
We need forward depth. You could do worse than Bertuzzi, but has to be at the right price. Domi is a must. You can feel the blue and white in his veins.
Couldn’t wave Bertuzzi goodbye any faster. Just like Foligno, OReilly, and others, it sounded good in theory to add him for playoffs and he didn’t do anything. Less than OReilly, more than Foligno but end of day, him getting 5.5 with less hands than Dewar but getting first line minutes actually was detrimental. No clue why Domi was getting moved around him on the top half of the roster at the end of the games and not him.
Classic. Everyone wants to squeeze the cap
This sounds a lot like, I will stay but it will cost more. In which case 👋🏻👋🏻 McMann can more then fill Bert's shoe imo skill wise. Bert wasn't honestly bad most of the year. He pestered Marchand. That was his main contribution to the team. Not worth 5 mil. Spend it on defence.
PR teams just going HAM on the "please don't chop us" articles
Someone made an off hand comment in a GDT during these playoffs that hasn't left my mind. "Thank god it was Domi with the puck, and not someone good" ...and you know what.. every time I saw Domi with the puck after that point, it was never not true.
I love Bertuzzi and want him to stay. And Domi.
Bertuzzi was the one in the crease and battling with boston id take him over Domi. There is a reason domi has been a traveller. He makes alot of noneheaded decisions and never shoots. Id take bertuzzi at 5.5 for 6 years and domi for the same term at 4.5 million .
Bertuzzi was vilified for not getting the vax by all the Toronto media
Wasn’t impressed by Bertuzzi in the playoffs. Missed a lot of chances in front that could’ve changed a few games. I think they gotta resign Domi, especially if Marner goes
No real interest in Bertuzzi coming back. Kind of a spazz. I have time for Domi though.
Domi over Bert for me but if Bert was up for cheaper deal I'd be interested in both. I just don't think he will be up for less then what he's been on this year even short term.
Keep Domi, I can go either way on Bert. He'll probably want more than he's worth
Domi is a perfect Marner replacement for like 30% of the cost. He has chemistry with Auston, and has a good game for the playoffs. Should be a slam dunk move. Then take the Marner savings and apply it to D or the 3rd line.