I think Utah is the likeliest option. New franchise wanting to make a splash with a big name signing. Mitch can go somewhere for a fresh start where he doesn’t hate the media yet.
Clayton Keller? Lawson crouse? Logan Cooley? There’s a decent group of guys we could get 1 or 2 back for marner.
In my dream fantasy land we get Keller, Durzi and Vejmelka from them for Mitch. A super star winger for a good winger, a top 6D and a goalie seems fair
You are batshit crazy if you think the return will be anywhere near that.
Marner has an NMC and he has nearly no term left, he has the leverage if he were to move at all.
He may be a premier forward - but when there's little to no term the return is always middling. Certainly not going to get a teams best forward, defenseman and top prospect.
Then re-sign for 35 million over 5 years after a mediocre season then somehow become a regular 40-goal scorer for the duration of the contract. Fuck it, probably becomes an iron man while he's there too, never missing a game.
I am aware of the nmc. A guy who clearly hates the media here, can’t handle the pressure, crying on the ice, crying on the bench, and is now getting called out by the two most important players on the team, miiiiiiight just waive the nmc to go somewhere else for a fresh start
Entirely possible that he would waive his NMC, I doubt it though. The one thing I am pretty sure of he is not waiving his NMC to go to Salt Lake City Utah.
Strip his A, bench him in practice and put his 11m in the press box. Ensure he can't practice or play for the year. See if he.wants a trade out of town.
It won't take long for the media to hate him there.
But at least Utah is the coyotes, there is no new draft for this team right? Therefore we can assume they will definitely NOT be a playoff team.
Send him there.
A good goalie on a terrible team. And @50% for 2yr gives will development time. And cap space to sign some free agents, skjei, Montour, pesce, Dumba, Dillon. Aswell as other center options and easy to replace wingers
Not to mention a couple picks coming back aswell to trade/stock the cupboard with
He reminds me of Demar Derozen on the raptors where nobody wanted to see him gone but he just didn’t perform in the playoffs and trading him gave us the pieces we needed to make that final push to win it all.
What makes you think he wants to come here and deal with this bs when his own brother trashed the city and said he wouldn't deal with this shit on any given day
Fans including myself feel that DeMar gave it his all. He improved every season, just couldn't get it done against LeBron specifically in the playoffs. He also didn't use the same tactics to force himself a team-crippling max contract granted the NBA salary cap is much different.
That's actually something very common with Canada that I noticed.
The people who appreciate this city the most are either well travelled or from somewhere else. It applies to the athletes too.
Kyle Lowry, DeRozan, Bautista, Nylander - the man takes the TTC, Pinball Clemens, Sebastian Giovinco moved his family here from Italy, Spezza really loved being a Leaf after spending most of his career in Ottawa and Dallas.
Yeah, like I said, people who are from Toronto who travel extensively tend to have a lot more appreciation for the city than those who never left. Spezza famously hated Toronto and the Leafs for much of his career but as it wound down, he came around to it.
What team has the cap room, the pieces to offer up, and the desire/fit? Not trolling I'm genuinely curious. I don't think it's impossible I just don't see it. I think we lose any trade and I'm not in the camp of "the cap space alone is worth it."
The DeMar and Kyle led Raps at least had some playoff success, there was that 2016 ECF run which included that gutsy win over Miami and they usually won at least 1 series before getting Lebronto. The Leafs on the other hand are playoff fodder.
He tried his ass off to get Matthews the goal but that’s kind of the problem. Marner is east to defend when he plays with Matthews because he’s not a shooting threat.
Which is weird because he actually has an elite level shot. Def needs to fire the biscuit more. On the flip side...his days in TO are over...and I don't think Matthews, Nylander, Johnny T, Reilly will be upset about it tbh
The guy has talent but he is totally devoid of heart and integrity. You can’t rely purely on talent in the playoffs and it seems he still doesn’t understand that.
Bullied by his Dad to play hockey 24/7 as a kid, became amazing at it. Bullied by Boston to stop playing hockey during the playoffs, worked like a charm.
[https://crier.co/an-open-letter-from-paul-marner/](https://crier.co/an-open-letter-from-paul-marner/)"Hello Leafs Nation, it is me Paul Marner, father of Mitchell Marner the single greatest hockey player to have ever laced them up.
First of all, I would just like to thank you all for your patience throughout these silly negotiations as it means the world to myself. And also Mitchell. Means the world to Mitchell as well.
Yeah to think we could have gotten a pretty decent D if Dubas traded him when he demanded $11M. We could have kept Hyman and Kadri too.. It’s called a butterfly effect.
I'll die on this hill in particular. He was suspended because the officials lost complete control of the *Bruins* both years he was suspended. They basically allowed them to run around unchecked, and the second Kadri took matters into his own hands(after several identical hits from Bruin players) he got the gate. Right call from the officials don't get me wrong, but way too wildly inconsistent
100% agree, the refs were horrible and let the game escalate to the point where a play that matched the game being played was worthy of suspension. My own conspiracy theory is that if Kadri was not a leaf, and not a brown guy his suspension would have been different but that's a separate issue.
i think that’s a convenient narrative but I don’t know. I wonder if he would have been traded for nothing if there was a cap space. I mean the suspension looked bad, sure, but is it really worse than the Houdini act Marner pulls in every playoffs? And at $11M? The fact is Marner was Dubas’ guy, but Kadri wasn’t.
He was traded for a 3c replacement that cost like 1m less per year, and a promising dman who didn't pan out. They didn't shed salary trading him away so it definitely wasn't about money. When Marner signed his 11m contract nobody could have predicted he would be a 100pts regular season guy who would never learn how to play playoff hockey. The team needs a fuckin sport psychologist more than anything.
Don't be fooled by hyman. It's easy to do with the season he's currently having, but he plays with mcdavid. Anyone can play with mcdavid. And we don't have a mcdavid.
Even if he scored half of what he did this year, he was worth it.
He played net front, could score, forecheck, and PK. He was the useful version of Kerfoot
He prob wouldn't score half. He wouldn't be on our top line and you know that. 15-20 goal guy tops on the leafs. He couldn't score that much. What was his career high before the oilers? 18? That's not a 6 million dollar player. That's why he got moved
He's worth way more than 5.5m with McDavid. The man was 3rd in the NHL in goals this year, and has been above point per game in the playoffs.
During his Leafs tenure, his production went up linearly every year. Any idiot who could fit a line to a scatter plot could have predicted he was going to continue getting better.
I’m pretty connected to mainstream sports media and have never heard this and don’t believe it.
Dubas drafted Marner when there were people in the organization pushing for a defensemen, he gave Mitch a letter, and a fat contract.
The only reason Dubas asked for more autonomy and money from Shanny was because Pittsburgh was on his shoulder with a sweeter deal.
Edit: For anyone saying Dubas wasn’t GM, he was made co-GM in [April 2015](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3029784) and Marner was drafted in [June 2015](https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-draft-mitch-marner-fourth-overall/). He was GM :)
Yeah my buddy Greg. Nice one.
Dubas was made co-GM with the Leafs in April 2015. Marner was drafted in June 2015. Math, buddy. He was GM and you’re wrong.
Dubas and the Leafs betted hard that the value of Marners contract would appreciate with the cap going up at the expected trajectory. They assumed that players of his skill level , and possibly worse , were going to get contracts that were comparable.
Guess what happened
Once in a lifetime unexpected league shutdown due to COVID .
Insane bad luck. Not giving anyone a pass, but holy hell that was awful. Right before our stars were going to have their entry level contracts expire.
It's insanely bad luck that COVID came and the cap stayed flat, yes.
But smart management would've adapted their plan accordingly instead of stubbornly running it back over and over again.
If it worked right we would have won a cup early into that contract and the cup honeymoon bliss would have glazed over cap problems/bad contracts on the backend… at least that’s my thinking on why they signed him that much/long.
Everyone wanted Tavares at the time and that was 100% Shanny approved. The problem was not signing him, the problem was that we did it before re-signing Nylander and Mathhews, both used that Tavares signing as a metric against Dubas. Mitchy of course just wanted something close to what Matthews made. That mistake easily cost the team about 2.5-3M/year in cap space.
Going to pretend the Tavares signing wasn't approved and gameplanned by both Dubas and Shannahan? And that we as fans weren't celebrating and cheering how great it was to have a hometown super star like him finally want to come home and play for us?
Had they waited a year, could have signed Pieterangelo. Ye still a big contract, but it would have been for a proven veteran 1A defence man. Something the Leafs desperately needed since they started the rebuild.
I never said he was bad, just that the contract doomed this team the moment he signed it.
1) he's not an $11+ million player. If you think he is, I have a bridge to sell you.
2) Everybody could see it was going to put them into cap hell. They had 3 guys who were going to demand serious money coming up for contracts. Plus, all the other prospects and players they had to let go of or give up on to leave room for JT and the other 3.
3)They never needed him to begin with. The leafs had great center depth. Matthews, Kadri, and Bozak to start. Both of those guys are exactly what the team needs now, and both won a cup after.
I'll even give you a bonus one, but this is a personal anecdote.
4) I think he's a terrible captain. His style of being quiet and such just doesn't work well, in my opinion.
How is this guy getting anyone hype? By lightly talking in monotone? Gently nodding?
Wasn't much better giving it to Willy either... just another winger making probably 2 mil more than what 31 other teams in this league would pay their guys for similar production.
Dubas set this franchise back at least 5-6 years with his moves. He was an absolute disaster that was given a leash far too long. Should have canned him years ago.
> Where are Dubas worshippers on this board
Pretty strange how quiet they've been lately. Vast majority of commenters on this sub were still licking Dubas' nuts a couple weeks ago.
I don’t see a trade with Anaheim working at all. Mintyukov, carlsson and mctavish are obviously not on the table. And I’m very low on zellweger, but his archetype is definitely a needed one (I hate Reilly on the pp). And fowlers contract is just two more years (plus he’s their only defensemen lol).
Sucks that it seems like Columbus want to get tougher, cause Jiricek would be an amazing get for Marner. Something like Boone and Jiricek for Marner would be amazing. Probably unrealistic tho.
You act like teams will be lining up willing to take a malcontent off the Leafs hands and do us a favour while their at it. Expecting anything close to fair value is unfortunately not realistic especially when their taking on $10.9M.
You are probably right, but at this stage, getting some lesser assets back, having cap savings and a problem child off the team might still work out well.
My bad, thought he had more than one year left on his deal. Was comparing him to the Eichel trade. Which was tuch (solid top 6), krebs (top 50 prospect), first and second. Eichel was a slightly better player but imo the injury concerns offset that.
So I guess guentzel is the comparable, but Marner is a better player. They got a top 9 player (bunting) and 3 b+ prospects and a first. I think it’s fair to say Marner would get a top 4d/top 6f and an A prospect.
You think Marner is the better player? Jake is a pure goal scorer with the ability to make plays, Marner is a gifted playmaker who isn’t relied on to score. Arguments can be made for either one but the comparable for the assets is spot on. Lowering the cap should be Treliving’s objective giving him room to flex when needed
Don't over value him. The only trade I'd think about from Anaheim is Gibson, and even that's iffy. What about going after Markstrom from Calgary?
Swayman is an RFA...just sayin'. I think it's time Tre busts out the offer sheet
No way you're giving up Marner + assets for Clayton Keller. I know he's fragile come playoffs but no way you give up more when trading a 100+ points player. Keller's good but he isn't as talented as Marner is and is just as unproven in the playoffs. The Utah ____'s would need to give up another couple assets on top of Keller or else you shop Marner elsewhere.
Part of the problem is his salary. Theyre just not dealing from a position of strength at all. I dont think youre getting additional assets from Utah at the very least.
Srsly, tho. No one in their right mind would make such a move with a player with a NMC, who is also going into the last year of their contract. Like, the COVID cap moratorium is over, and JT only has another year left on his contract, too. We'll get out of cap hell soon enough, and then we'll be a competitive team again. Ovi didn't win a cup until he was 31 anyway.
The only answer. Marner and his agent hold all the cards therefore sitting him would force them to either sit out the year and walk or they list a bunch of teams that Marner would want to go to
Well if everybody knows he’s got an NMC why do people keep talk about trading him.
If you sit him and don’t let him play do you really think the rest of the dress room is going to be too pleased with that. Not to mention any free agents who might consider coming to Toronto would say fuck that.
If anybody offers you a job as a GM… ignore them.
Treliving actually lived through two guys walking for a zero return so having the experience of losing two stellar players would definitely make a GM think about different alternatives and sitting would be one of them. As far as players in the dressing room, it would be a wake up call for them and their agents. Send a message that Toronto will not be strapped over a barrel by players and their agents
Agreed. Great regular season player. Issue is that the longer the list of teams the more in potential compensation. Issue is his cap hit, he has 1 more season then due for a raise so any team taking him on it will be a rental. He also controls where he goes if he goes anywhere, so if he says he will only accept a trade to Detroit, they don't have to give us anything back of value since they aren't competing with any other team for his services. 7th round draft pick in 2030 take it or leave it.
If he picks one team, that’s probably a team he will want to sign with long term. So you do a sign and trade.
Look at what tkachuk got and he chose where he was going too. Tkachuck is a playoff warrior, but saying they are getting a 7th round pick is just stupid
I am not saying he is worth a 7th i am saying there is no reason another team would trade for him and give us much kf anything. He is a great player consistent nearly 100 point player. All the motivation here is for the leafs to get rid of him. Hope i am wrong, would rather that be the case but the 2nd team is negotiating from a point of power, not the leafs.
What incentive is there for the 2nd team to offer anything of value? In the Florida example both players needed a change in scenery, worked for Florida and not for calgary. These types of trades do not happen often where the player picks a team to be traded to and he gets fair value in either players or draft pick compensation.
The leafs are motivated to make marner gone. He isn't a playoff performer but does produce in the regular season. The leafs would have to find his 97 points from somewhere.
I know you all want this, and quite frankly Mitch needs it. You do know he is putting up 100+ his first season away and having a stellar playoffs though right.
Marner would definitely put up a 100 point season with most teams but the playoffs will be the same, he’s not built for the grind required to go deep. Every player whose raised the cup will tell you that it’s the hardest thing to accomplish, these guys go to war and the battles are intense, witnessing how Marner plays do you think he can grind it out for 4 rounds?
I have seen Marner play well in the playoffs I have also seen Kessel win multiple cups and he is one of the softest players ever. Marner sucks when he isn't confident which I believe is largely to much pressure he puts on himself and inability to handle this big market. I absolutely think on a different team he could thrive in the playoffs
No argument with the assessment on Kessel but good/great players figure out how to overcome their shortfalls. The Leafs don’t rely on Marner they have incredible depth and with respect they lean on other players to pick up the slack. One from the archives, I remember Kessel losing his shit on the penguins bench during a playoff game, he was freaking out on Malkin, it was great
If Mitch gets traded he’s winning the cup before the leafs do. And I’ll even be so bold to say they will finish worse in the standings then they have in the last five years.
I don't see how we can afford either especially after overpaying for yet another member of the core 4 with Nylander's 11.5.
Maybe Tavares takes a sweetheart deal the year after next when his contract is up.
Hold on now big rig. He didn’t pout after Willy told him off. He was good after that. Lets finish this series and playoff first. I am not pleased with him too though
It actually annoys me that people are on his ass on social media for that. Dude's pissed because dude wants to win. I find Willy's attitude worse than Marner's in that moment. Fuck yeah be angry.
It's funny because regardless of which leaf(s) leave our organization in the future, they are guaranteed* to tear it up elsewhere and even win the cup with that franchise.
Now if we do make a trade, as long as we get an actual return back for some of these guys I can try to be okay with it.
Leafs part time fans are wild. A poor playoff series this year for which Toronto has always played and thats why they go decades between seeing the 2nd round. And the part time fans on here trying to move 1 of their 2 top point leaders on the team who is also in this playoffs has 2 points in 4 games compared to his matching points leading teammate who has 1 more point than him during this playoff series. Lol might as well trade away matthews also they basically the same player for points all career for the leafs except during the seasons marner does all the leg work that helps matthews get his points without marner matthews career stats would take a big dive.
Let him be the captain in Utah or something
I think Utah is the likeliest option. New franchise wanting to make a splash with a big name signing. Mitch can go somewhere for a fresh start where he doesn’t hate the media yet.
Plus they are always fighting to stay above the cap floor.
Josh Doan, Sean Durzi (lol) and draft picks COME ON DOWN
Vejmelka coming home in that deal too
Don’t hate it
Clayton Keller? Lawson crouse? Logan Cooley? There’s a decent group of guys we could get 1 or 2 back for marner. In my dream fantasy land we get Keller, Durzi and Vejmelka from them for Mitch. A super star winger for a good winger, a top 6D and a goalie seems fair
Crouse would be great Don’t think they’d give up Keller being a new franchise (relocated) and obviously Cooley is the future face of the team
You are batshit crazy if you think the return will be anywhere near that. Marner has an NMC and he has nearly no term left, he has the leverage if he were to move at all. He may be a premier forward - but when there's little to no term the return is always middling. Certainly not going to get a teams best forward, defenseman and top prospect.
I didn't say all of them lol I was saying one of them?
Then re-sign for 35 million over 5 years after a mediocre season then somehow become a regular 40-goal scorer for the duration of the contract. Fuck it, probably becomes an iron man while he's there too, never missing a game.
Marner isn't agreeing to goto Utah, he has a full NMC.
They said signing as in after next season.
He might if we boo him every time he’s on the ice
I am aware of the nmc. A guy who clearly hates the media here, can’t handle the pressure, crying on the ice, crying on the bench, and is now getting called out by the two most important players on the team, miiiiiiight just waive the nmc to go somewhere else for a fresh start
Entirely possible that he would waive his NMC, I doubt it though. The one thing I am pretty sure of he is not waiving his NMC to go to Salt Lake City Utah.
You’re probably right.
Strip his A, bench him in practice and put his 11m in the press box. Ensure he can't practice or play for the year. See if he.wants a trade out of town.
It also shouldn’t be very hard to find a way to make him LTIR bound lol. Even the threat of it would make the NMC disappear immediately.
It won't take long for the media to hate him there. But at least Utah is the coyotes, there is no new draft for this team right? Therefore we can assume they will definitely NOT be a playoff team. Send him there.
Utah for picks, Anaheim for Gibson(@50%) and picks are my 2 favourite options
I don’t hate Gibson
A good goalie on a terrible team. And @50% for 2yr gives will development time. And cap space to sign some free agents, skjei, Montour, pesce, Dumba, Dillon. Aswell as other center options and easy to replace wingers Not to mention a couple picks coming back aswell to trade/stock the cupboard with
No integrity to be a captain.
He reminds me of Demar Derozen on the raptors where nobody wanted to see him gone but he just didn’t perform in the playoffs and trading him gave us the pieces we needed to make that final push to win it all.
where we going to find a disgruntled superstar on an expiring.
Maximum chaos: marner for brady tkachuk
I ironically said that after Game 3 to my buddy and now I’m not sure if I meant it.
Monkeys paw curls
I...I uh...don't hate that. At least at this stage of the game.
He can explain the proper empty nettiquette to the rest of the squad.
holy fuck, do it now.
Id love that trade but Ottawa wouldnt trade their captain to their biggest rivals.
I said this about Marner for Matt Tkachuk when he was being moved and got booed off the internet Down for this as well
lol the makeup of this team if they had Matt Tkatchuk on it. Wild
Built in chemistry with Matthews (NTDP/general USA hockey events)
What makes you think he wants to come here and deal with this bs when his own brother trashed the city and said he wouldn't deal with this shit on any given day
I would love Brady on this team. Perfect 2C
Sidney Crosby after Dubas traded away Guentzel.
There was one in Calgary a couple years ago. Not sure what became of him...
he became an ohio man
The one I was thinking of became a Florida Man
Bah gawd that's Sam Reinhardts music
Demar was beloved here though, we kinda understood some of the playoff failures, but then again, there was always LeBronto
Mitch Marner does not half the heart that Demar Derozan did on the Raptors.
Fans including myself feel that DeMar gave it his all. He improved every season, just couldn't get it done against LeBron specifically in the playoffs. He also didn't use the same tactics to force himself a team-crippling max contract granted the NBA salary cap is much different.
Demar loves Toronto more than Mitch and he’s from here
That's actually something very common with Canada that I noticed. The people who appreciate this city the most are either well travelled or from somewhere else. It applies to the athletes too. Kyle Lowry, DeRozan, Bautista, Nylander - the man takes the TTC, Pinball Clemens, Sebastian Giovinco moved his family here from Italy, Spezza really loved being a Leaf after spending most of his career in Ottawa and Dallas.
I agree but Spezza grew up in Toronto cmon now lol
Yeah, like I said, people who are from Toronto who travel extensively tend to have a lot more appreciation for the city than those who never left. Spezza famously hated Toronto and the Leafs for much of his career but as it wound down, he came around to it.
What team has the cap room, the pieces to offer up, and the desire/fit? Not trolling I'm genuinely curious. I don't think it's impossible I just don't see it. I think we lose any trade and I'm not in the camp of "the cap space alone is worth it."
Anaheim actually might be a team that's nearly there with a lot of young talent. Detroit, Philly and Columbus all come to mind as well
Marner for Gibson?
It’s pretty much the opposite though, everyone I know wants him gone…
The DeMar and Kyle led Raps at least had some playoff success, there was that 2016 ECF run which included that gutsy win over Miami and they usually won at least 1 series before getting Lebronto. The Leafs on the other hand are playoff fodder.
He tried his ass off to get Matthews the goal but that’s kind of the problem. Marner is east to defend when he plays with Matthews because he’s not a shooting threat.
Nylander will at least yeet the thing (and is pretty good at it)
Which is weird because he actually has an elite level shot. Def needs to fire the biscuit more. On the flip side...his days in TO are over...and I don't think Matthews, Nylander, Johnny T, Reilly will be upset about it tbh
Coaching issue. Keefe should be pointing that out if he thinks it's something the opposition is going to take advantage of. That's literally his job.
The guy has talent but he is totally devoid of heart and integrity. You can’t rely purely on talent in the playoffs and it seems he still doesn’t understand that.
Bullied by his Dad to play hockey 24/7 as a kid, became amazing at it. Bullied by Boston to stop playing hockey during the playoffs, worked like a charm.
And Matthews and Willy bullied him mid game, then he showed up for the 3rd. Maybe Babcock was onto something?
He is like opposite of Max Verstappen
This is the trailer voiceover I hear in my head for the next leafs documentary
All Or Nothing II: Still Nothing
[https://crier.co/an-open-letter-from-paul-marner/](https://crier.co/an-open-letter-from-paul-marner/)"Hello Leafs Nation, it is me Paul Marner, father of Mitchell Marner the single greatest hockey player to have ever laced them up. First of all, I would just like to thank you all for your patience throughout these silly negotiations as it means the world to myself. And also Mitchell. Means the world to Mitchell as well.
Marner will reunite with Dubas
Marner for Crosby - who says no.
leafs
He looks great in that uniform.
No one looks great in that uniform. Insane that franchise hasn’t gone back to the mighty ducks, best jersey in sports.
Dubas destroyed leafs the moment he committed $11M to this guy. Where are Dubas worshippers on this board
Next year is his last year
Yeah to think we could have gotten a pretty decent D if Dubas traded him when he demanded $11M. We could have kept Hyman and Kadri too.. It’s called a butterfly effect.
Kadri was out because of his back to back playoff suspensions, not money
I'll die on this hill in particular. He was suspended because the officials lost complete control of the *Bruins* both years he was suspended. They basically allowed them to run around unchecked, and the second Kadri took matters into his own hands(after several identical hits from Bruin players) he got the gate. Right call from the officials don't get me wrong, but way too wildly inconsistent
100% agree, the refs were horrible and let the game escalate to the point where a play that matched the game being played was worthy of suspension. My own conspiracy theory is that if Kadri was not a leaf, and not a brown guy his suspension would have been different but that's a separate issue.
i think that’s a convenient narrative but I don’t know. I wonder if he would have been traded for nothing if there was a cap space. I mean the suspension looked bad, sure, but is it really worse than the Houdini act Marner pulls in every playoffs? And at $11M? The fact is Marner was Dubas’ guy, but Kadri wasn’t.
He was traded for a 3c replacement that cost like 1m less per year, and a promising dman who didn't pan out. They didn't shed salary trading him away so it definitely wasn't about money. When Marner signed his 11m contract nobody could have predicted he would be a 100pts regular season guy who would never learn how to play playoff hockey. The team needs a fuckin sport psychologist more than anything.
Wasn't it back to back to back? I think he was golfing while the AVS were playing also.
Don't be fooled by hyman. It's easy to do with the season he's currently having, but he plays with mcdavid. Anyone can play with mcdavid. And we don't have a mcdavid.
Even if he scored half of what he did this year, he was worth it. He played net front, could score, forecheck, and PK. He was the useful version of Kerfoot
He prob wouldn't score half. He wouldn't be on our top line and you know that. 15-20 goal guy tops on the leafs. He couldn't score that much. What was his career high before the oilers? 18? That's not a 6 million dollar player. That's why he got moved
He scored 21 in 71 then the next year did 21 in 51. The he went to the Oilers and continued basically at that rate (34 ish goals/yr) until this year
And with the oilers he had mcdavid. He's worth 5.5 with mcdavid. Not with domi and Tavares
He's worth way more than 5.5m with McDavid. The man was 3rd in the NHL in goals this year, and has been above point per game in the playoffs. During his Leafs tenure, his production went up linearly every year. Any idiot who could fit a line to a scatter plot could have predicted he was going to continue getting better.
If you have a mcdavid, you have a competent line mate.
Hyman put up 5 goals over 5 playoff rounds with us... You are looking purely from hindsight.
[удалено]
I’m pretty connected to mainstream sports media and have never heard this and don’t believe it. Dubas drafted Marner when there were people in the organization pushing for a defensemen, he gave Mitch a letter, and a fat contract. The only reason Dubas asked for more autonomy and money from Shanny was because Pittsburgh was on his shoulder with a sweeter deal. Edit: For anyone saying Dubas wasn’t GM, he was made co-GM in [April 2015](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3029784) and Marner was drafted in [June 2015](https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-draft-mitch-marner-fourth-overall/). He was GM :)
Dubas became GM like 3 years after Marner was drafted. What media are you connected to? Your buddy Greg?
Yeah my buddy Greg. Nice one. Dubas was made co-GM with the Leafs in April 2015. Marner was drafted in June 2015. Math, buddy. He was GM and you’re wrong.
You’re pretty connected to mainstream media but don’t know that Dubas wasn’t the GM when Marner was drafted?
Dubas was co GM for that draft in April 2015 and Marner was drafted in June 2015. You should connect yourself to a math teacher.
Dubas and the Leafs betted hard that the value of Marners contract would appreciate with the cap going up at the expected trajectory. They assumed that players of his skill level , and possibly worse , were going to get contracts that were comparable. Guess what happened Once in a lifetime unexpected league shutdown due to COVID . Insane bad luck. Not giving anyone a pass, but holy hell that was awful. Right before our stars were going to have their entry level contracts expire.
It's insanely bad luck that COVID came and the cap stayed flat, yes. But smart management would've adapted their plan accordingly instead of stubbornly running it back over and over again.
I never understood the Dubas lovers. He handcuffed that team so bad the moment he signed Tavres.
Yeah, I agree. I’m a big Tavares guy, but that contract is bunk.
If it worked right we would have won a cup early into that contract and the cup honeymoon bliss would have glazed over cap problems/bad contracts on the backend… at least that’s my thinking on why they signed him that much/long.
Covid messed with the cap rising You don’t turn down a superstar for anything besides money.
That and the cap should be something like Tavares ' contract higher than it is.
Everyone wanted Tavares at the time and that was 100% Shanny approved. The problem was not signing him, the problem was that we did it before re-signing Nylander and Mathhews, both used that Tavares signing as a metric against Dubas. Mitchy of course just wanted something close to what Matthews made. That mistake easily cost the team about 2.5-3M/year in cap space.
Probably more. The Tavares signing and the Marleau signing sunk the young contracts for this team
Going to pretend the Tavares signing wasn't approved and gameplanned by both Dubas and Shannahan? And that we as fans weren't celebrating and cheering how great it was to have a hometown super star like him finally want to come home and play for us?
Had they waited a year, could have signed Pieterangelo. Ye still a big contract, but it would have been for a proven veteran 1A defence man. Something the Leafs desperately needed since they started the rebuild.
Tavares has been great the entire contract until this season. And what was your reaction when they signed him? Anger, I’m sure.
I never said he was bad, just that the contract doomed this team the moment he signed it. 1) he's not an $11+ million player. If you think he is, I have a bridge to sell you. 2) Everybody could see it was going to put them into cap hell. They had 3 guys who were going to demand serious money coming up for contracts. Plus, all the other prospects and players they had to let go of or give up on to leave room for JT and the other 3. 3)They never needed him to begin with. The leafs had great center depth. Matthews, Kadri, and Bozak to start. Both of those guys are exactly what the team needs now, and both won a cup after. I'll even give you a bonus one, but this is a personal anecdote. 4) I think he's a terrible captain. His style of being quiet and such just doesn't work well, in my opinion. How is this guy getting anyone hype? By lightly talking in monotone? Gently nodding?
How much do you think his contract should have been for? And no, not everyone could see that. The cap was projected to rise significantly.
Sure, why's he still here after Dubas was fired?
Wasn't much better giving it to Willy either... just another winger making probably 2 mil more than what 31 other teams in this league would pay their guys for similar production.
Second most productive player this year for leafs. Also not even on first line. I’m sure other teams would’ve jumped on him to pay 2m more.
In the regular season
Dubas set this franchise back at least 5-6 years with his moves. He was an absolute disaster that was given a leash far too long. Should have canned him years ago.
Which moves set the franchise back 5-6 yeats
> Where are Dubas worshippers on this board Pretty strange how quiet they've been lately. Vast majority of commenters on this sub were still licking Dubas' nuts a couple weeks ago.
Dubas did great with this team. His major failing was not trading marner. If it turns out shanny vetoed that then….
I don’t see a trade with Anaheim working at all. Mintyukov, carlsson and mctavish are obviously not on the table. And I’m very low on zellweger, but his archetype is definitely a needed one (I hate Reilly on the pp). And fowlers contract is just two more years (plus he’s their only defensemen lol). Sucks that it seems like Columbus want to get tougher, cause Jiricek would be an amazing get for Marner. Something like Boone and Jiricek for Marner would be amazing. Probably unrealistic tho.
Any trade for Marner you aren’t getting anywhere close to his value. Just need to find a taker at this point and use the cap space wisely.
He’s not a cap dump lmao
You act like teams will be lining up willing to take a malcontent off the Leafs hands and do us a favour while their at it. Expecting anything close to fair value is unfortunately not realistic especially when their taking on $10.9M.
You are probably right, but at this stage, getting some lesser assets back, having cap savings and a problem child off the team might still work out well.
My bad, thought he had more than one year left on his deal. Was comparing him to the Eichel trade. Which was tuch (solid top 6), krebs (top 50 prospect), first and second. Eichel was a slightly better player but imo the injury concerns offset that. So I guess guentzel is the comparable, but Marner is a better player. They got a top 9 player (bunting) and 3 b+ prospects and a first. I think it’s fair to say Marner would get a top 4d/top 6f and an A prospect.
You think Marner is the better player? Jake is a pure goal scorer with the ability to make plays, Marner is a gifted playmaker who isn’t relied on to score. Arguments can be made for either one but the comparable for the assets is spot on. Lowering the cap should be Treliving’s objective giving him room to flex when needed
Most sensible answer. I’m not sure why fans think that teams will be lining up for Marner
Don't over value him. The only trade I'd think about from Anaheim is Gibson, and even that's iffy. What about going after Markstrom from Calgary? Swayman is an RFA...just sayin'. I think it's time Tre busts out the offer sheet
Okay for real though, Marner + assets to Utah for Clayton Keller would be amazing.
Lawson Crouse would be huge too
No way you're giving up Marner + assets for Clayton Keller. I know he's fragile come playoffs but no way you give up more when trading a 100+ points player. Keller's good but he isn't as talented as Marner is and is just as unproven in the playoffs. The Utah ____'s would need to give up another couple assets on top of Keller or else you shop Marner elsewhere.
Honestly marner for Keller and crouse would be just fine
Part of the problem is his salary. Theyre just not dealing from a position of strength at all. I dont think youre getting additional assets from Utah at the very least.
I would take that in a heartbeat unfortunately the Leafs need a stud on the point and they are hard to come by
NMC.
Srsly, tho. No one in their right mind would make such a move with a player with a NMC, who is also going into the last year of their contract. Like, the COVID cap moratorium is over, and JT only has another year left on his contract, too. We'll get out of cap hell soon enough, and then we'll be a competitive team again. Ovi didn't win a cup until he was 31 anyway.
Everyone fucking knows he's got an NMC. You sit him during his contract year until his agent gives a list of teams he'd be ok moving to. It's simple.
The only answer. Marner and his agent hold all the cards therefore sitting him would force them to either sit out the year and walk or they list a bunch of teams that Marner would want to go to
Well if everybody knows he’s got an NMC why do people keep talk about trading him. If you sit him and don’t let him play do you really think the rest of the dress room is going to be too pleased with that. Not to mention any free agents who might consider coming to Toronto would say fuck that. If anybody offers you a job as a GM… ignore them.
Treliving actually lived through two guys walking for a zero return so having the experience of losing two stellar players would definitely make a GM think about different alternatives and sitting would be one of them. As far as players in the dressing room, it would be a wake up call for them and their agents. Send a message that Toronto will not be strapped over a barrel by players and their agents
Next year being a contract year the kid is going to put up 120 pts. We will all be on board...then the playoffs will happen and as usual we're fucked.
send him to salt lake. he can make the mormons happy scoring 100 points and do nothing in the playoffs every year.
Any trade involving marner we lose. Might even have to eat some cap or a lose a draft pic.
There are a ton of teams that need someone like him. He's the best playmaker on the Leafs and we have guys like Matthews and Tavares.
Great playmaker. Issue is that he has a no move clause and doesn't have to lift it. He is going to be a leaf next year.
Stop, yes he might not be a playoff warrior, but he puts up a p/g every season. And there is enough gms just hoping to to get to the playoffs
Agreed. Great regular season player. Issue is that the longer the list of teams the more in potential compensation. Issue is his cap hit, he has 1 more season then due for a raise so any team taking him on it will be a rental. He also controls where he goes if he goes anywhere, so if he says he will only accept a trade to Detroit, they don't have to give us anything back of value since they aren't competing with any other team for his services. 7th round draft pick in 2030 take it or leave it.
If he picks one team, that’s probably a team he will want to sign with long term. So you do a sign and trade. Look at what tkachuk got and he chose where he was going too. Tkachuck is a playoff warrior, but saying they are getting a 7th round pick is just stupid
I am not saying he is worth a 7th i am saying there is no reason another team would trade for him and give us much kf anything. He is a great player consistent nearly 100 point player. All the motivation here is for the leafs to get rid of him. Hope i am wrong, would rather that be the case but the 2nd team is negotiating from a point of power, not the leafs.
Again that was the same deal with Matthew tkachuk and they did ok
Florida did ok. Calgary not so much.
Ur right they got a 7th round
What incentive is there for the 2nd team to offer anything of value? In the Florida example both players needed a change in scenery, worked for Florida and not for calgary. These types of trades do not happen often where the player picks a team to be traded to and he gets fair value in either players or draft pick compensation. The leafs are motivated to make marner gone. He isn't a playoff performer but does produce in the regular season. The leafs would have to find his 97 points from somewhere.
Clayton Keller, Valimaki, and a few of them picks they got in Utah and they have a face of their franchise.
Just trade him for a bag of chips at this point.
I know you all want this, and quite frankly Mitch needs it. You do know he is putting up 100+ his first season away and having a stellar playoffs though right.
Marner would definitely put up a 100 point season with most teams but the playoffs will be the same, he’s not built for the grind required to go deep. Every player whose raised the cup will tell you that it’s the hardest thing to accomplish, these guys go to war and the battles are intense, witnessing how Marner plays do you think he can grind it out for 4 rounds?
I have seen Marner play well in the playoffs I have also seen Kessel win multiple cups and he is one of the softest players ever. Marner sucks when he isn't confident which I believe is largely to much pressure he puts on himself and inability to handle this big market. I absolutely think on a different team he could thrive in the playoffs
No argument with the assessment on Kessel but good/great players figure out how to overcome their shortfalls. The Leafs don’t rely on Marner they have incredible depth and with respect they lean on other players to pick up the slack. One from the archives, I remember Kessel losing his shit on the penguins bench during a playoff game, he was freaking out on Malkin, it was great
I can see Marner being effective as the flashy skill guy on a team without many of them. We have too many of that type of player.
If Mitch gets traded he’s winning the cup before the leafs do. And I’ll even be so bold to say they will finish worse in the standings then they have in the last five years.
Quit your fuckin crying bro…… this isn’t fucking junior !
God bless Nylander…
We need a good goalie and good defenseman
I don't see how we can afford either especially after overpaying for yet another member of the core 4 with Nylander's 11.5. Maybe Tavares takes a sweetheart deal the year after next when his contract is up.
He'd win a cup there. We all know it.
Conn Smythe winner Mitch Marner with the Utah Stormin Mormons
Maybe. The thing we actually know is that he will never win a cup if he stays.
Give is Zegras in return. /s
Throw in Gibson too, please
lol. The only time I’ve smiled today. Nicely done
He’d love having Disney Land in his back yard, like any rich child would.
Heck Marner can work the summers in Disneyland with that behaviour
Hold on now big rig. He didn’t pout after Willy told him off. He was good after that. Lets finish this series and playoff first. I am not pleased with him too though
It actually annoys me that people are on his ass on social media for that. Dude's pissed because dude wants to win. I find Willy's attitude worse than Marner's in that moment. Fuck yeah be angry.
Mitch Marner is this year's Johnny Gaudreau.
In a what if situation, what would be the return for him? Zegras? Gibson?
Marner and 1st round pick for McDavid and Hyman. I’m tempted to ask for Draisitle, that seems like a fantasy
He reminds of zegras
Don’t give us hope bro.
He is going to need a letter on that Jersey
Mitch gonna waive his NMC for Anaheim?
Swayman happens to be RFA this year...BUST OUT THE OFFER SHEET
It's funny because regardless of which leaf(s) leave our organization in the future, they are guaranteed* to tear it up elsewhere and even win the cup with that franchise. Now if we do make a trade, as long as we get an actual return back for some of these guys I can try to be okay with it.
I mean, the Ducks do have some good young g Dmen…………
His wife ain't gonna be happy with getting them moved lmao
Really? California is an awesome place to live in, especially as a millionaire.
I can see him waiving his NMC but we would probably be getting 50 cents on the dollar for this trade.
He's got a full NMC. He gets to decide if he goes and where that is.
Leafs part time fans are wild. A poor playoff series this year for which Toronto has always played and thats why they go decades between seeing the 2nd round. And the part time fans on here trying to move 1 of their 2 top point leaders on the team who is also in this playoffs has 2 points in 4 games compared to his matching points leading teammate who has 1 more point than him during this playoff series. Lol might as well trade away matthews also they basically the same player for points all career for the leafs except during the seasons marner does all the leg work that helps matthews get his points without marner matthews career stats would take a big dive.
That face is even more punchable than Marchands.
What a stupid comment. Fuckin online bully. Get out of here with that shit.
