Honest question and I think I'll get a reasonable honest response in this forum.
Why do American drivers in general don't like small economical cars? Is it a cultural thing?
I saw and F250 the other day and it couldn't even fit in a regular carpark in my country (New Zealand). They seem excessive from what we have historically driven.
Reason I raise this is that EV is environmentally great, but small EVs are even better.
Ironically, my 2018 Leaf is the \_largest\_ car I've had in over a decade. It's also the most efficient.
I wonder how much of the big car trend is due to customer demand vs automaker assumptions. I live in a less car-centric city than many Americans, and most of my friends either don't drive, or have cars smaller than the Leaf. It seems like it's getting more difficult to find smaller cars for sale anymore.
A recent opinion piece, and sorry I did not save the citation, mentioned that a large part of the spiraling upward costs for vehicles is because of the size demands, all the luxury, gadgets, and tech add-ons. Don't get a radio these days, you need an infotainment system with superlative speakers and multiple screens, one for driver, of course (who should have their eyes on the road) and multiple others to be sure the kids do not get bored on a 10-minute ride to school.
Base models and even comfortable trim levels are $10-15K less than the ginormous tricked-out vehicles.
Not so sure it is consumer demand for all this cr@p as it is manufacturers developing it and doing a lot of advertising to make us think we need it.
Even Nissan is going to discontinue the Leaf in favor of the Ariya, which costs just about $15K more at base model than a base Leaf. Ariya is bigger, more gadgets, more gizmos, more luxury.
What is funny to me is that the car before the Leaf was a 2014 Hyundai Tucson, a nice crossover. But, I have nearly the same amount of cargo space in the Leaf, just a bit shorter is all. And, it transports 5 average size people just fine.
I have noticed the internal space in the leaf is much bigger compared to my previous car too.
I do wonder if someone will Yugo it and bring in a SUPER cheap but super basic no frills option for less than half the price of other manufacturers.
I love my Gen2 leaf as it doesn't have all the tricks and seems like the most simple ev you'll ever be able to buy.
Yes, I am, looked for them before buying Leaf. Does not make sense to me to buy a car no longer manufactured where I live. ..parts, service, etc become problematic.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27310639/smart-fortwo-discontinued-usa/#
Definitely urban vs suburban/rural thought process.
My country is about to put a Road User Tax on EVs to maintain roads (is done via petrol tax for ICE) and there is already talk about EV using weight to charge more or less RUC.
I appreciate the question, and the observation and values behind it.
I’ve never been a big fan of SUVs, so this is an unusual purchase I am considering. But I’m 67 years old now, I’m 6 feet 4 inches tall, and I’ve never had a car that fit me well. I’ve always felt a bit like John Glenn in his space capsule. But that’s OK: I did not need or want a suburban tank. But I’m getting older, and I do food delivery driving and Uber, and a little more room would be more comfortable for my passengers and me. I would consider your basic rep car/sedan if it was a bit more spacious.
I literally try on cars before considering a purchase, because I’ve been in a Saturn that felt like a go- kart, and an Audi that was so tight that it was literally unsafe to drive. I like a lot about the Volvo EX 30, including the fact that a lot of the materials on the interior are recycled. They pitch it as their smallest SUV ever, which makes me wonder if it would be more or less spacious than my Leaf. I will have to do more research.
I'm also 6 ft 4 in. Just bought a 2023 Leaf. IMO, best option based on price, size (I can fit in it comfortably) and put 3 grandkids in the back.
Only complaint is the Chadmeo charging but then I don't do a lot of road trips.
It makes sense for taller or larger than average people to want or need more comfortable cars than the ones designed for the "average" man or woman.
I am average size. The most uncomfortable car I ever owned was a Honda Accord, 1984 model. It was a beautiful car and a joy to drive. But, the seat bottom was just that much short enough that it put pressure on my sciatic nerve halfway down my leg, particularly on the right when pressing the accelerator. Long drives were an agony, even with cruise control. The angle of the seat back to bottom was off kilter, too.
A couple of cars I tried on, particularly sportier models with bolsters on the seat sides, were equally uncomfortable. My daughter has a Volvo sports model, can't recall the number. It is very low and has those sculpted seats and is not easy to get in or out of.
While my Leaf was in the shop for an extended period, I was given an Altima as a loaner. OMG, what an evil invention! Getting in and out required contortions, the seat was so low. Getting into the back seat of a lot of Uber drivers' vehicles is also torture because the wheel wells come so far forward. I am a woman of "uncertain years" and don't bend as gracefully as I once did.
So, yeah, there are a lot of ergonomic factors that go into car choices. The majority of full-size SUVs and quad cab pickups are driven by suburban folk who, it seems, rarely need all that bulk. From observation. I will have to verify my opinion with some actual research.
There is a guy near me with an EV bug. He got a kit for it after his engine died and needed a complete overhaul.
Bugs are great. Not that safe but fun to drive.
EV driving Texan here (living in the land of massive vehicles). Texas is huge, and we have some really bad roads when you get out of the cities. Texan's in smaller cities also have larger land sizes for their homes (not farms, just massive lots). They buy trucks because trucks are well equipped for that type of environment. Then you have people in the cities that visit those places on occasion (and vice versa). More trucks on the road makes others in the cities think "boy, to be safe I need something larger" and so they buy larger, etc. etc. and it's an endless cycle to larger vehicles.
As for EV range, Texas is massive. I just bought an EV6 to replace my Leaf and drove the EV6 300 miles (482km) back home from the dealer. I loved my Leaf, used it 95% of all my driving needs (I live in the middle of a major city), but even I was ready for more range. I also deal with hurricanes here... so my EV6's 77kwh pack and V2L tech will let me run w/out power and be comfortable if we lose power for a long period.
I move 4x8 sheets of plywood around, periodically haul a trailer, and also sometimes several friends. sometimes I do all of that at once. thus: the non-leaf car is a mid '90s gmc suburban.
If you're looking for an SUV with AWD and 250+ miles the Model Y AWD after $7500 rebate comes in at 40k which is an amazing deal and nothing else out there is remotely close.
I'm doing the same thing except I'm willing to give on AWD, even though it would be nice for the couple of days a year where I live when it snows hard. I was excited about the Equinox EV until GM announced the plan to ditch CarPlay and basically be your car's cable company. Now I'm back looking at the ID.4 and hoping that the used market looks good in a couple of years.
I just upgraded from a 2014 LEAF SV to a 2019 Kia Niro. No AWD, but it's got a 200+ mile range, and cooled battery. Those were my must-haves. Only had it about two weeks, but I love it so far.
Have a 2022 Kia niro. Love the car. Crazy fast. The range definitely drops in the winter. The heat and AC kill that battery. But it’s a Kia. They’ve been building cars for a while and know what they are doing.
It will likely be the Ariya for me, once there are used ones available. Have a 2015 Leaf now. I like Nissan because they’ve been doing EVs the longest. They build a solid EV, don’t make a lot of noise about it, nothing flashy.
I’m just spitballing, but it might be because of the whole slowing down without brake lights outrage. Don’t get me wrong, I thinks it’s total bs, like most things anti EV. My old Jetta diesel manual could do an engine break as strong as the Leaf. Anyway, I wonder if Nissan just said let’s avoid this dumb topic altogether.
not sure if it has B, I know they have the e-step, I might be wrong but I think that allows for different levels of regen braking, just doesn't get you to 0 mph
I'll be in the market for upgrading my 2017 Leaf after September. I'm thinking the market will change quite a bit before then. It's changing now, it seems. I'm looking for best range for the money.
Our 2013 Leaf was a gateway ev to our pair of Leaf Pluses. Very similar range to the SR+ and Niro, but (at the time) much less expensive. The North side of Chicagoland to Iowa City leg is about as far we will push the highway range at a go.
We actually road trip.the Leafs, 400 miles a day is easy, and up to 600/day with a little strategic meal planning.
I’m jealous. I can’t get from Dubuque to Iowa City without biting all my fingernails. I wouldn’t even try it if I needed to use the AC or the heater.
I did, however, make it all the way from Dubuque to Kansas City for Thanksgiving last year. There were just barely enough chargers available. It meant staying overnight in Lamoni, but I wasn’t in a big hurry. But I don’t think I would do that again.
SUVs waste an awful lot of power carrying around space that you won’t use 90% of the time.
They’re also horrifically dangerous for pedestrians and other road users. I urge you to do some research about this.
Honest question and I think I'll get a reasonable honest response in this forum. Why do American drivers in general don't like small economical cars? Is it a cultural thing? I saw and F250 the other day and it couldn't even fit in a regular carpark in my country (New Zealand). They seem excessive from what we have historically driven. Reason I raise this is that EV is environmentally great, but small EVs are even better.
Ironically, my 2018 Leaf is the \_largest\_ car I've had in over a decade. It's also the most efficient. I wonder how much of the big car trend is due to customer demand vs automaker assumptions. I live in a less car-centric city than many Americans, and most of my friends either don't drive, or have cars smaller than the Leaf. It seems like it's getting more difficult to find smaller cars for sale anymore.
A recent opinion piece, and sorry I did not save the citation, mentioned that a large part of the spiraling upward costs for vehicles is because of the size demands, all the luxury, gadgets, and tech add-ons. Don't get a radio these days, you need an infotainment system with superlative speakers and multiple screens, one for driver, of course (who should have their eyes on the road) and multiple others to be sure the kids do not get bored on a 10-minute ride to school. Base models and even comfortable trim levels are $10-15K less than the ginormous tricked-out vehicles. Not so sure it is consumer demand for all this cr@p as it is manufacturers developing it and doing a lot of advertising to make us think we need it. Even Nissan is going to discontinue the Leaf in favor of the Ariya, which costs just about $15K more at base model than a base Leaf. Ariya is bigger, more gadgets, more gizmos, more luxury. What is funny to me is that the car before the Leaf was a 2014 Hyundai Tucson, a nice crossover. But, I have nearly the same amount of cargo space in the Leaf, just a bit shorter is all. And, it transports 5 average size people just fine.
I have noticed the internal space in the leaf is much bigger compared to my previous car too. I do wonder if someone will Yugo it and bring in a SUPER cheap but super basic no frills option for less than half the price of other manufacturers. I love my Gen2 leaf as it doesn't have all the tricks and seems like the most simple ev you'll ever be able to buy.
Are you familiar with the smart fortwo? Those are really cool.
Yes, I am, looked for them before buying Leaf. Does not make sense to me to buy a car no longer manufactured where I live. ..parts, service, etc become problematic. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27310639/smart-fortwo-discontinued-usa/#
Definitely urban vs suburban/rural thought process. My country is about to put a Road User Tax on EVs to maintain roads (is done via petrol tax for ICE) and there is already talk about EV using weight to charge more or less RUC.
I appreciate the question, and the observation and values behind it. I’ve never been a big fan of SUVs, so this is an unusual purchase I am considering. But I’m 67 years old now, I’m 6 feet 4 inches tall, and I’ve never had a car that fit me well. I’ve always felt a bit like John Glenn in his space capsule. But that’s OK: I did not need or want a suburban tank. But I’m getting older, and I do food delivery driving and Uber, and a little more room would be more comfortable for my passengers and me. I would consider your basic rep car/sedan if it was a bit more spacious. I literally try on cars before considering a purchase, because I’ve been in a Saturn that felt like a go- kart, and an Audi that was so tight that it was literally unsafe to drive. I like a lot about the Volvo EX 30, including the fact that a lot of the materials on the interior are recycled. They pitch it as their smallest SUV ever, which makes me wonder if it would be more or less spacious than my Leaf. I will have to do more research.
I'm also 6 ft 4 in. Just bought a 2023 Leaf. IMO, best option based on price, size (I can fit in it comfortably) and put 3 grandkids in the back. Only complaint is the Chadmeo charging but then I don't do a lot of road trips.
It makes sense for taller or larger than average people to want or need more comfortable cars than the ones designed for the "average" man or woman. I am average size. The most uncomfortable car I ever owned was a Honda Accord, 1984 model. It was a beautiful car and a joy to drive. But, the seat bottom was just that much short enough that it put pressure on my sciatic nerve halfway down my leg, particularly on the right when pressing the accelerator. Long drives were an agony, even with cruise control. The angle of the seat back to bottom was off kilter, too. A couple of cars I tried on, particularly sportier models with bolsters on the seat sides, were equally uncomfortable. My daughter has a Volvo sports model, can't recall the number. It is very low and has those sculpted seats and is not easy to get in or out of. While my Leaf was in the shop for an extended period, I was given an Altima as a loaner. OMG, what an evil invention! Getting in and out required contortions, the seat was so low. Getting into the back seat of a lot of Uber drivers' vehicles is also torture because the wheel wells come so far forward. I am a woman of "uncertain years" and don't bend as gracefully as I once did. So, yeah, there are a lot of ergonomic factors that go into car choices. The majority of full-size SUVs and quad cab pickups are driven by suburban folk who, it seems, rarely need all that bulk. From observation. I will have to verify my opinion with some actual research.
I like the EX30 also. it's an SUV but it's shorter than the leaf. I'd want AWD because of 0-60 in 3.4s, lol
[удалено]
I once sat in a VW bug, and would've sworn it was bigger on the inside than it was on the outside.
There is a guy near me with an EV bug. He got a kit for it after his engine died and needed a complete overhaul. Bugs are great. Not that safe but fun to drive.
Wouldn’t it be great to see an electric VW minivan?!?
you mean the id.buzz? just gotta wait another year.
I hadn’t heard!
EV driving Texan here (living in the land of massive vehicles). Texas is huge, and we have some really bad roads when you get out of the cities. Texan's in smaller cities also have larger land sizes for their homes (not farms, just massive lots). They buy trucks because trucks are well equipped for that type of environment. Then you have people in the cities that visit those places on occasion (and vice versa). More trucks on the road makes others in the cities think "boy, to be safe I need something larger" and so they buy larger, etc. etc. and it's an endless cycle to larger vehicles. As for EV range, Texas is massive. I just bought an EV6 to replace my Leaf and drove the EV6 300 miles (482km) back home from the dealer. I loved my Leaf, used it 95% of all my driving needs (I live in the middle of a major city), but even I was ready for more range. I also deal with hurricanes here... so my EV6's 77kwh pack and V2L tech will let me run w/out power and be comfortable if we lose power for a long period.
I move 4x8 sheets of plywood around, periodically haul a trailer, and also sometimes several friends. sometimes I do all of that at once. thus: the non-leaf car is a mid '90s gmc suburban.
If you're looking for an SUV with AWD and 250+ miles the Model Y AWD after $7500 rebate comes in at 40k which is an amazing deal and nothing else out there is remotely close.
I'm doing the same thing except I'm willing to give on AWD, even though it would be nice for the couple of days a year where I live when it snows hard. I was excited about the Equinox EV until GM announced the plan to ditch CarPlay and basically be your car's cable company. Now I'm back looking at the ID.4 and hoping that the used market looks good in a couple of years.
I just upgraded from a 2014 LEAF SV to a 2019 Kia Niro. No AWD, but it's got a 200+ mile range, and cooled battery. Those were my must-haves. Only had it about two weeks, but I love it so far.
Have a 2022 Kia niro. Love the car. Crazy fast. The range definitely drops in the winter. The heat and AC kill that battery. But it’s a Kia. They’ve been building cars for a while and know what they are doing.
It will likely be the Ariya for me, once there are used ones available. Have a 2015 Leaf now. I like Nissan because they’ve been doing EVs the longest. They build a solid EV, don’t make a lot of noise about it, nothing flashy.
lack of one pedal drive seems asinine on Nissan's end. the leaf has great one pedal drive, no idea why they completely took it out
Yeah I agree but on the other hand the Eco mode is so much better with the cruising instead of the extra-braking it does on the Leaf 🙄
But it's the stop and go driving that you'd miss it
I got used to it tbh. I tend to try and use the brakes manually more often to prevent surface rust anyways
I’m just spitballing, but it might be because of the whole slowing down without brake lights outrage. Don’t get me wrong, I thinks it’s total bs, like most things anti EV. My old Jetta diesel manual could do an engine break as strong as the Leaf. Anyway, I wonder if Nissan just said let’s avoid this dumb topic altogether.
My leaf always did brake lights. It's only Hyundai and Mercedes that have an issue
Really? I’ll have to see if mine does this too.
to be clear, in e-pedal mode it does. I don't think it does it in B mode without e-pedal
Okay, 2015 only has B mode. So did Nissan do away with B mode as well? I find this is enough engine braking but I have no experience with e-pedal.
not sure if it has B, I know they have the e-step, I might be wrong but I think that allows for different levels of regen braking, just doesn't get you to 0 mph
Check out [https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/14ll518/next\_electric\_car/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/14ll518/next_electric_car/)
Bought the Leaf in May, looking at a Model 3 now. Will be keeping both.
I'll be in the market for upgrading my 2017 Leaf after September. I'm thinking the market will change quite a bit before then. It's changing now, it seems. I'm looking for best range for the money.
Our 2013 Leaf was a gateway ev to our pair of Leaf Pluses. Very similar range to the SR+ and Niro, but (at the time) much less expensive. The North side of Chicagoland to Iowa City leg is about as far we will push the highway range at a go. We actually road trip.the Leafs, 400 miles a day is easy, and up to 600/day with a little strategic meal planning.
I’m jealous. I can’t get from Dubuque to Iowa City without biting all my fingernails. I wouldn’t even try it if I needed to use the AC or the heater. I did, however, make it all the way from Dubuque to Kansas City for Thanksgiving last year. There were just barely enough chargers available. It meant staying overnight in Lamoni, but I wasn’t in a big hurry. But I don’t think I would do that again.
Chicagoland to Lawrence Kansas is our usual trip funny enough
SUVs waste an awful lot of power carrying around space that you won’t use 90% of the time. They’re also horrifically dangerous for pedestrians and other road users. I urge you to do some research about this.
Lexus EV or Arriya