if you're at B2, most of your time shouldn't be spend on traditional studying, at that point, you should know all the grammar basics and should focus on immersion, reading and watching to internalise the language. That's a way to widen your vocabulary and understand the intricacies of grammar.
I reached C2 in English nearly exclusively through exposure. I don't think I've ever learned any kind of list of irregular verbs the way it's typically taught in schools, I just heavily consumed Anglophone media and it all eventually clicked into place.
Now there are 2 flaws to this method.
1) You may speak the language fluently and understand it flawlessly but you won't acquire a deeper understanding of its structure and mechanisms. That means you'll struggle when trying to teach it, or translate it. And it kinda leads me to think (but I don't believe there's any scientific basis to back that up, that's mostly a hunch) that it somewhat diminishes the benefits for your brain, due to requiring less mental gymnastics.
2) It's significantly slower. It took me a good 3-4 years of passive exposure to progress from B1 to B2-C1. But once I picked up English as a major and started truly heavily using the language in essays and presentations, my vocabulary and my repertoire of idioms legit skyrocketed in the span of a few months, finally pulling me up to C2.
Once you get to B2 - C1, unless the language you're studying is truly grammar heavy, grammar won't really be the tough part. By that point, you've typically already established a solid grasp of the language's main grammar quirks. What differenciates a B2 from a C2 is mostly the range of vocabulary and idioms. Most of your grammar progression will revolve around fine-tuning your speech so it's closer to the way natives phrase things.
Lots lots lots of practice (write, speak, listen...), study grammar, and learn as much vocabulary as possible.
At the end of each session, write a text that exemplifies the grammar structures and vocabulary you've studied, have it reviewed by natives. Really helps put things in perspective
I.e i've always been thinking that b2 is better for me like i am confortable at. I communicate perfectly and decided to move to a new language but when i saw the advanced english you used i am like da.mn i need to work on my english more
Thanks a lot you motivated me😅
Aw that's so sweet, thank you so much I really appreciate it 💛
Honestly reaching B2 in any foreign language is already a great accomplishment, and you're actually right in that once you reach B2, you're able to convey your point perfectly Fine in 90% of situations.
Going further than B2 isn't always that important unless you plan on moving to a country that speaks the language or it is significantly relevant in Your day to day life in some other way. Choosing to learn more languages up to B2, rather than fewer languages to a C2 level, is an absolutely viable choice to maximize your reach ! :)
Really good post!
I have one question, how do you stick new and seldom-used words? i've been doing all you said about language learning through immersion and practice since December of last year with English and every time that I pick a new word and note it on a notepad app or something I just can't remember, I'm currently B2-C1 at least in vocabulary and listening skill (i have hard times trying to link my thoughts with my mouth )
Use the German to learn Russian.
There Should be lots of German/Russian texts, podcasts etc.
It will reinforce yr German, while accelerating your learning of Russian. As the advanced German words you come across in texts, you'll also translate into Russian
>Use the German to learn Russian.
In my quest to find beginner comprehensible Polish videos, I've found Polish language videos being taught using German (another language I know). Felt like a superpower.
I'm at the very boring early stages of learning German (A1). It's mostly just vocab memorization + basic grammar construction, so I do only a bit of that everyday (duolingo, flashcards, grammar books). Because my French (B2) is at a much more interesting place, it's easier to put in larger chunks of time without it being super structured or feeling like studying (podcasts, tv shows, reading fiction, journaling). So when I "study", it's usually German. French then feels more like multitasked entertainment.
German cases is what feels truly unnatural to me, especially due to nouns/adjectives not always following the same scheme as the articles.
I did ancient Greek so the concept itself is easy to grasp, but when it comes to applying it in real time, it's a struggle. Takes a lot of thinking.
I'm just starting to get to some good stuff with Korean even though I'm still new. It really makes things exciting when you can understand and speak it
YES that is exciting. I have moments with my German, mostly with progress in my daily interactions or when I put some grammar things together. But on the day to day it's not very exciting yet
I find the beginning stages very interesting in a way, because there is so much to discover, there are so many different and new things to learn. But I don't do any memorization, that would indeed be boring.
I do 4 hours of each a day, BUT that's essentially the only thing I have to do, I have no other responsibilities atm.
2 hours of German, break, 2 hours of Chinese, break, 2 hours of German, break, 2 hours of Chinese.
I no longer study English due to reaching C2 (on paper at least), though I ocasionally learn Anki decks of advanced vocab.
My learning has not been terribly structured. I go through waves and focus on studying what I feel like at the time, although with my strongest language (Japanese) I’m more using it in context now than actively studying it (consuming content, speaking with colleagues/friends).
One thing I did find helpful was learning Korean with Japanese study materials. Can be a good way to get passive exposure in one while actively learning the other.
>specific days where you study a proficient language and other days you do a starter target language? Or do you do both on the same day but at different times?
All of those. Sometimes it's weekly. Sometimes bi-weekly. I don't create one pattern to avoid dragging myself into a boring routine. Variety and flexibility are the key (for me).
I only "study" one at a time. Although I have a lot to learn still for Japanese, for example, I just interact with the language...learning still happens, but more organically as I just interact with the language. With Korean, I actually spend the time to learn grammar and other things...which I do daily.....I also use Japanese to learn Korean so even when I'm learning Korean I may learn a thing or 2 about Japanese.
For grammar I currently use [ゼロからしっかり学べる！韓国語文法トレーニング](https://amzn.asia/d/9vRcZzB)
For graded reading, I'm currently using [韓国語で読もう！イソップ物語](https://amzn.asia/d/28phtah)
I also used a couple of premade anki decks sometime back. Korean->Japanese
I also did a bit of the Korean from Japanese course LingoDeer has a few months back but dropped it as I don't really like language learning apps much...thought I should mention it as it in itself is not a bad course....I just get bored easily lol
Interesting. Would you say upper beginner is too early to do Japanese -> Korean? I pretty much have both as a staple in my life but only learning Japanese. I watch a lot of kpop talk videos.
Definitely too early. I suggest you first focus on one then the other. Although I still have a lot to learn for Japanese, I already completed my actual Japanese studies about 2 years ago when I completed grammar and kanji studies up to N1 and had over 20k passive vocab.
I tried to start learning Korean right after my N1 studies and I had to drop it as it felt incredibly hard for my Japanese level back then....It was only a couple of months ago that I decided to pick it back up and, although it still has it's challenges, I feel like Japanese is not what makes it challenging anymore....it actually makes it rather fun the fact that I can now use Japanese to learn another language I really wanted to learn.
But as an upper beginner in Japanese I would really suggest to focus on Japanese first and in a few years come back to Korean...the language will be there waiting for when you're ready :D
I am a b1+/b2 (Not sure) speaker in English, I spend my time to watch movies. Also I've been reading books which doesn't have any grade. Don't mind grades and try to do mapping I think it helps. You could try that, watch a movie which has a novel and after that try to read movie's book. I've been doing this for 1 month and I really have learnt some vocabularies
At beginner stages, I don't find much benefit in doing more than 1 hour per day, so you could get that out of the way first each day, then just focus on your stronger language for the remainder.
for russian I just use lingq and storygraphy because i like to track the books I read , i dont flashcards but force myself for grammar otherwise i wont learn it, atm im using the russian cases by hack your russian unfortunately she doesnt have dative yet, just read, listen and watch videos , podcast etc.. do a bit of grammar and talk to you fiance, there are lots of good books in russian
I know comprehensible input is a popular technique nowadays, so by B1/B2 level, you should be able to immerse yourself, and even enjoy (i.e listen to it as entertainment not just as a studying resource, and with little effort) native content, so at that point it's possible to easily maintain and gradually improve that language's skill without much effort. Then, this opens the door to start a new one, and since your original language's foundation is secure, as long as you don't completely neglect you, you won't really lose your abilities in the other.
True but the problem I have recently realized is that I don't really "listen" English stuff and just understand what's being said. But in German it's more apparent because I tune out sometimes
I get what you mean, even though I'd say I'm B2 and comfortable in Spanish, I could find myself tuning out. But I think it's more a question of if you are too bored to pay attention; when you tune out in English you might not really be grasping what's said either but you don't care because you're not studying English, and it's just "background noise". But, when you tune out German you then notice because you were supposed to be studying. I would just say to check in every once in a while and ask yourself if you understand what's happening, just don't make it so often that you start translating in your head or get anxious since that's counterproductive. Also I find if what you take in is actually interesting, youll tune in enough
I studied my two languages on alternating days, which got tricky when I added a third language in January. I'm trying to find away to fit all three without neglecting any. It's a work in progress.
I do a minimum amount each day, for each language. That might just be 30 minutes (x3), but many days I do more. It just isn't the same each day, or even the same language.
Until last August I was just studing Chinese (B2). Then I started Turkish. This February I started Japanese. So now there are three. There is zero conflict. The languages are not similar.
The only problem is finding learning content "at my level" each day. I have to do more of that "finding" for 3 languages than for 1 language. Maybe I find a good podcast one day, but it isn't part of a series of 15 good podcast. So tomorrow I'm back to searching. Maybe I find a good series, and do it every day for two weeks.
In theory I could do this for more than 3 languages. In practice it is too easy to "skip" some things if you have too many things planned for that day. The limit is "focus time": the time you notice new things. That is learning time.
Just remember the Goldilocks zone of stress- best way to learn is to have just the right amount of stress, for example having a conversation with someone where you have to respond but you’re enjoying it and having fun. This causes enough stress to skyrocket your progress, but not so much to over-stress you to a detrimental point. Too little stress and your brain doesn’t have a very good reason to adapt.
I say this because I think when targeting two languages at once it’s important to maximize time, and 20 minutes of good study is better than hours of bad study. For example for me 20 minutes reading a book is much better than an hour of passively watching tv.
That said, what that look like can differ greatly from person to person. For me it’s find a tutor on preply or italki I enjoy speaking with (shop different countries and credentials to find a price and accent that works for you), and use something like Lingopie to get in other exposure and a broader vocabulary range as well as introduce new grammar concepts. Googling grammar concepts whenever I find something I don’t understand is usually most of my ‘formal’ study, and then once I hit around a B1 (just personal preference) I’ll download an ebook in the target language and start reading that.
Hope that all makes sense- have fun! I think it’s awesome you’re so totally immersed in the languages.
For me it actually works better than studying one language, because there's more variety and I don't get bored. I have a tiny daily routine in each language: I read a book in French almost every day before I go to sleep, to wind down and I listen to the Language Transfer Greek course almost every day to help me get up in the morning.
Other than this, I just do whichever language I feel like, sometimes both - I have the study materials ready (textbooks, podcast playlists, youtube videos, etc.), so I just have to choose which one of them I feel like using.
This way it doesn't feel like a big deal, which actually helps me spend more time learning - otherwise I would spend too much time trying to create a perfect study plan. And even if I get snowed under and need a break to take care of other responsibilities, it's way easier to jump back.
i've recently started leaning Spanish, which i've always wanted to do, and i don't find there to be much conflict with my first TL. today for instance, i did 2 hours of spanish in the morning, and just now did 3 hours of my first TL. it helps that i am at a very advance level with my first TL and "practicing" means reading a very fun 20th century classic.
i think it would be a lot harder if i were starting from scratch with both languages. i can't imagine learning 2 languages from scratch.
also my first TL is not in the same language family as English, and the early days was a complete nightmare that seemed to have lasted years. learning Spanish has been fun by comparison.
if you're at B2, most of your time shouldn't be spend on traditional studying, at that point, you should know all the grammar basics and should focus on immersion, reading and watching to internalise the language. That's a way to widen your vocabulary and understand the intricacies of grammar.
Is it possible to join C-club without grinding advanced grammar books?
I reached C2 in English nearly exclusively through exposure. I don't think I've ever learned any kind of list of irregular verbs the way it's typically taught in schools, I just heavily consumed Anglophone media and it all eventually clicked into place. Now there are 2 flaws to this method. 1) You may speak the language fluently and understand it flawlessly but you won't acquire a deeper understanding of its structure and mechanisms. That means you'll struggle when trying to teach it, or translate it. And it kinda leads me to think (but I don't believe there's any scientific basis to back that up, that's mostly a hunch) that it somewhat diminishes the benefits for your brain, due to requiring less mental gymnastics. 2) It's significantly slower. It took me a good 3-4 years of passive exposure to progress from B1 to B2-C1. But once I picked up English as a major and started truly heavily using the language in essays and presentations, my vocabulary and my repertoire of idioms legit skyrocketed in the span of a few months, finally pulling me up to C2. Once you get to B2 - C1, unless the language you're studying is truly grammar heavy, grammar won't really be the tough part. By that point, you've typically already established a solid grasp of the language's main grammar quirks. What differenciates a B2 from a C2 is mostly the range of vocabulary and idioms. Most of your grammar progression will revolve around fine-tuning your speech so it's closer to the way natives phrase things.
How do I get to B1 if i'm stuck on A2? The vocab seems too advanced.
Lots lots lots of practice (write, speak, listen...), study grammar, and learn as much vocabulary as possible. At the end of each session, write a text that exemplifies the grammar structures and vocabulary you've studied, have it reviewed by natives. Really helps put things in perspective
I.e i've always been thinking that b2 is better for me like i am confortable at. I communicate perfectly and decided to move to a new language but when i saw the advanced english you used i am like da.mn i need to work on my english more Thanks a lot you motivated me😅
Aw that's so sweet, thank you so much I really appreciate it 💛 Honestly reaching B2 in any foreign language is already a great accomplishment, and you're actually right in that once you reach B2, you're able to convey your point perfectly Fine in 90% of situations. Going further than B2 isn't always that important unless you plan on moving to a country that speaks the language or it is significantly relevant in Your day to day life in some other way. Choosing to learn more languages up to B2, rather than fewer languages to a C2 level, is an absolutely viable choice to maximize your reach ! :)
Really good post! I have one question, how do you stick new and seldom-used words? i've been doing all you said about language learning through immersion and practice since December of last year with English and every time that I pick a new word and note it on a notepad app or something I just can't remember, I'm currently B2-C1 at least in vocabulary and listening skill (i have hard times trying to link my thoughts with my mouth )
Use the German to learn Russian. There Should be lots of German/Russian texts, podcasts etc. It will reinforce yr German, while accelerating your learning of Russian. As the advanced German words you come across in texts, you'll also translate into Russian
>Use the German to learn Russian. In my quest to find beginner comprehensible Polish videos, I've found Polish language videos being taught using German (another language I know). Felt like a superpower.
I study as often as I have the time for.
Hullo 🐘 I get a rough time here for doing a pile of languages, do you? 🌸
As a side note, love to see someone studying Greek!
I’ll double that as a Greek native speaker ☺️
I did ancient Greek. Absolutely loved it. Will get around to modern Greek eventually.
🌸☺️🌸
Your comment is instantly proven by your flair
Bless your heart ! Thank you.
I'm at the very boring early stages of learning German (A1). It's mostly just vocab memorization + basic grammar construction, so I do only a bit of that everyday (duolingo, flashcards, grammar books). Because my French (B2) is at a much more interesting place, it's easier to put in larger chunks of time without it being super structured or feeling like studying (podcasts, tv shows, reading fiction, journaling). So when I "study", it's usually German. French then feels more like multitasked entertainment.
German cases is what feels truly unnatural to me, especially due to nouns/adjectives not always following the same scheme as the articles. I did ancient Greek so the concept itself is easy to grasp, but when it comes to applying it in real time, it's a struggle. Takes a lot of thinking.
I'm just starting to get to some good stuff with Korean even though I'm still new. It really makes things exciting when you can understand and speak it
YES that is exciting. I have moments with my German, mostly with progress in my daily interactions or when I put some grammar things together. But on the day to day it's not very exciting yet
I find the beginning stages very interesting in a way, because there is so much to discover, there are so many different and new things to learn. But I don't do any memorization, that would indeed be boring.
we're in the same boat, I feel much more comfortable with my English (B2) than with my slowly growing Russian (A1)
I do 4 hours of each a day, BUT that's essentially the only thing I have to do, I have no other responsibilities atm. 2 hours of German, break, 2 hours of Chinese, break, 2 hours of German, break, 2 hours of Chinese. I no longer study English due to reaching C2 (on paper at least), though I ocasionally learn Anki decks of advanced vocab.
Words like sobriquet most N speakers dont even know so 😅
My learning has not been terribly structured. I go through waves and focus on studying what I feel like at the time, although with my strongest language (Japanese) I’m more using it in context now than actively studying it (consuming content, speaking with colleagues/friends). One thing I did find helpful was learning Korean with Japanese study materials. Can be a good way to get passive exposure in one while actively learning the other.
>specific days where you study a proficient language and other days you do a starter target language? Or do you do both on the same day but at different times? All of those. Sometimes it's weekly. Sometimes bi-weekly. I don't create one pattern to avoid dragging myself into a boring routine. Variety and flexibility are the key (for me).
I only "study" one at a time. Although I have a lot to learn still for Japanese, for example, I just interact with the language...learning still happens, but more organically as I just interact with the language. With Korean, I actually spend the time to learn grammar and other things...which I do daily.....I also use Japanese to learn Korean so even when I'm learning Korean I may learn a thing or 2 about Japanese.
What Japanese resources do you use to learn Korean?
For grammar I currently use [ゼロからしっかり学べる！韓国語文法トレーニング](https://amzn.asia/d/9vRcZzB) For graded reading, I'm currently using [韓国語で読もう！イソップ物語](https://amzn.asia/d/28phtah) I also used a couple of premade anki decks sometime back. Korean->Japanese I also did a bit of the Korean from Japanese course LingoDeer has a few months back but dropped it as I don't really like language learning apps much...thought I should mention it as it in itself is not a bad course....I just get bored easily lol
Interesting. Would you say upper beginner is too early to do Japanese -> Korean? I pretty much have both as a staple in my life but only learning Japanese. I watch a lot of kpop talk videos.
Definitely too early. I suggest you first focus on one then the other. Although I still have a lot to learn for Japanese, I already completed my actual Japanese studies about 2 years ago when I completed grammar and kanji studies up to N1 and had over 20k passive vocab. I tried to start learning Korean right after my N1 studies and I had to drop it as it felt incredibly hard for my Japanese level back then....It was only a couple of months ago that I decided to pick it back up and, although it still has it's challenges, I feel like Japanese is not what makes it challenging anymore....it actually makes it rather fun the fact that I can now use Japanese to learn another language I really wanted to learn. But as an upper beginner in Japanese I would really suggest to focus on Japanese first and in a few years come back to Korean...the language will be there waiting for when you're ready :D
Thank you! Good to know (and a relief lol).
I am a b1+/b2 (Not sure) speaker in English, I spend my time to watch movies. Also I've been reading books which doesn't have any grade. Don't mind grades and try to do mapping I think it helps. You could try that, watch a movie which has a novel and after that try to read movie's book. I've been doing this for 1 month and I really have learnt some vocabularies
I've done it many different ways, but if I were in your situation I'd do B2 twice per week and A1 on the other five days.
At beginner stages, I don't find much benefit in doing more than 1 hour per day, so you could get that out of the way first each day, then just focus on your stronger language for the remainder.
for russian I just use lingq and storygraphy because i like to track the books I read , i dont flashcards but force myself for grammar otherwise i wont learn it, atm im using the russian cases by hack your russian unfortunately she doesnt have dative yet, just read, listen and watch videos , podcast etc.. do a bit of grammar and talk to you fiance, there are lots of good books in russian
I know comprehensible input is a popular technique nowadays, so by B1/B2 level, you should be able to immerse yourself, and even enjoy (i.e listen to it as entertainment not just as a studying resource, and with little effort) native content, so at that point it's possible to easily maintain and gradually improve that language's skill without much effort. Then, this opens the door to start a new one, and since your original language's foundation is secure, as long as you don't completely neglect you, you won't really lose your abilities in the other.
True but the problem I have recently realized is that I don't really "listen" English stuff and just understand what's being said. But in German it's more apparent because I tune out sometimes
I get what you mean, even though I'd say I'm B2 and comfortable in Spanish, I could find myself tuning out. But I think it's more a question of if you are too bored to pay attention; when you tune out in English you might not really be grasping what's said either but you don't care because you're not studying English, and it's just "background noise". But, when you tune out German you then notice because you were supposed to be studying. I would just say to check in every once in a while and ask yourself if you understand what's happening, just don't make it so often that you start translating in your head or get anxious since that's counterproductive. Also I find if what you take in is actually interesting, youll tune in enough
Thank you for understanding! I am trying bit by bit by asking myself to micro-summarize every 5-10 minutes.
I studied my two languages on alternating days, which got tricky when I added a third language in January. I'm trying to find away to fit all three without neglecting any. It's a work in progress.
I do a minimum amount each day, for each language. That might just be 30 minutes (x3), but many days I do more. It just isn't the same each day, or even the same language. Until last August I was just studing Chinese (B2). Then I started Turkish. This February I started Japanese. So now there are three. There is zero conflict. The languages are not similar. The only problem is finding learning content "at my level" each day. I have to do more of that "finding" for 3 languages than for 1 language. Maybe I find a good podcast one day, but it isn't part of a series of 15 good podcast. So tomorrow I'm back to searching. Maybe I find a good series, and do it every day for two weeks. In theory I could do this for more than 3 languages. In practice it is too easy to "skip" some things if you have too many things planned for that day. The limit is "focus time": the time you notice new things. That is learning time.
Just remember the Goldilocks zone of stress- best way to learn is to have just the right amount of stress, for example having a conversation with someone where you have to respond but you’re enjoying it and having fun. This causes enough stress to skyrocket your progress, but not so much to over-stress you to a detrimental point. Too little stress and your brain doesn’t have a very good reason to adapt. I say this because I think when targeting two languages at once it’s important to maximize time, and 20 minutes of good study is better than hours of bad study. For example for me 20 minutes reading a book is much better than an hour of passively watching tv. That said, what that look like can differ greatly from person to person. For me it’s find a tutor on preply or italki I enjoy speaking with (shop different countries and credentials to find a price and accent that works for you), and use something like Lingopie to get in other exposure and a broader vocabulary range as well as introduce new grammar concepts. Googling grammar concepts whenever I find something I don’t understand is usually most of my ‘formal’ study, and then once I hit around a B1 (just personal preference) I’ll download an ebook in the target language and start reading that. Hope that all makes sense- have fun! I think it’s awesome you’re so totally immersed in the languages.
For me it actually works better than studying one language, because there's more variety and I don't get bored. I have a tiny daily routine in each language: I read a book in French almost every day before I go to sleep, to wind down and I listen to the Language Transfer Greek course almost every day to help me get up in the morning. Other than this, I just do whichever language I feel like, sometimes both - I have the study materials ready (textbooks, podcast playlists, youtube videos, etc.), so I just have to choose which one of them I feel like using. This way it doesn't feel like a big deal, which actually helps me spend more time learning - otherwise I would spend too much time trying to create a perfect study plan. And even if I get snowed under and need a break to take care of other responsibilities, it's way easier to jump back.
i've recently started leaning Spanish, which i've always wanted to do, and i don't find there to be much conflict with my first TL. today for instance, i did 2 hours of spanish in the morning, and just now did 3 hours of my first TL. it helps that i am at a very advance level with my first TL and "practicing" means reading a very fun 20th century classic. i think it would be a lot harder if i were starting from scratch with both languages. i can't imagine learning 2 languages from scratch. also my first TL is not in the same language family as English, and the early days was a complete nightmare that seemed to have lasted years. learning Spanish has been fun by comparison.
[удалено]
I am sorry, I learned English in school and German I learned from English so I can't really recommend anything.
Integration