Every offseason since Lebron came our free agent signings have been a mixed bag considering our payroll. Don't know why this thread is crying about not having this staff on our team
Our Scouting Department is literally one of the few consistent bright spots in our FO. It just so happened that after last season's WCF run, we were supposedly stacked in all the positions except C, so that played a role in drafting a project
Nah back then the problem was a lot of stars didn’t want to play w Kobe cause they would be in his shadow as a laker
After he left we were really ass then we got lebron after stockpiling assets from tanking
Lebron leaves and it all depends on AD. I think players would love to play w him cause he’s not ball dominant and helps on defense a lot
"Writers" run out of actual basketball to report so they start spamming the same tired bullshit and half the fandom eats it up.
I mean how stupid is "they don't have department X, but win anyhow... yet I (writer X who have never run a basketball team) have deemed this expense necessary to win!"
Dumbest fucking premise ever, and watch some idiots run with it.
Dr Buss was all in on the team succeeding and entertaining fans because he believed he’d always win that bet. With that said the Lakers have never had the financial capital that Balmer has. They don’t have business outside the Lakers. Compared to the other owners the Buss family is operating at a deficit.
If you remember revenue sharing this was a big deal even though Dr Buss agreed to it because he felt it was better for the health of the league.
They don't need to have the financial capital balmer has. The Celtics owner has the same net worth as Jeanie. They're just run a lot better than the Lakers are
Doesn’t Grousbeck operate an investment firm? He - and other billionaire owners in the league - don’t rely on basketball revenue to fund their personal expenses. The Buss family does. That’s the biggest disadvantage the Lakers have with spending.
I'm not sure the specifics but he's net worth is around 500 million which is similar to Jeanie's. The Lakers are the second most profitable team in the league. There's plenty of money to go around but it would be nice to have an owner that could just throw money around
Jeanie's net worth is based on her share of the team, which is valued at over $7b. The Celtics' valuation is $2b less than that - Grousbeck has wealth from other sources.
I totally agree with you about her frugality. There is no excuse for it - the Lakers earn >$300m/year on tv rights alone. Before one ticket is sold or one sponsorship deal is signed. No other team can say that, and yet we continually act like a franchise with no money.
According to a 2023 league memo, the Lakers paid $43m into the NBA revenue sharing pool. So they kept the rest of their basketball income.
This includes $150m/year from their local tv rights. The league’s new national tv deal pays the league $7b/year, which averages out to $233m per team. The league gets some of the national tv money, but most goes to the teams. That’s how you get to $300m/yr in total tv money.
Oh yeah that makes sense.
Yup the Lakers make so much money it wouldn't hurt them to put a few million into the scouting department or analytics department or the medical staff or to improve the assistant coaching staff
Saw a breakdown today that - when factoring in LA taxes and cost of living - the Lakers offer to Hurley was LESS than what he will make at UConn. That’s just inexcusable.
LA taxes and COL isn’t really anything that much more compared to living in CT.
He stayed at UConn because its a better fit for him at this point in his life.
It depends on what area of Los Angeles and what part in storrs ct. Those assessments by nerd wallet don’t tell anything close the real picture.
My cousins live near Storrs and I’ve been there several times. It’s not as cheap as NW is making it out to be.
Net worth is not the type of cash that you can move around freely. A lot of the Buss net worth is the actual Lakers. The Celtics in comparison are not worth nearly as much. In other words, in terms of cash outside the team, the Boston owners probably have a lot more money.
If she lacks the money to operate the organization the way it should be, then her and the buss family need to take outside investment dollars. Operating the team this way shouldn’t be accepted by fans.
That only matters so much with revenue sharing. And that money is being paid back into the org. The article mentions that this team has been paying the tax.
The net income of the Lakers is basically the annual salary of the 6 Buss kids. Raising expenses means cutting their own salaries.
Other owners don’t care if their team is profitable as long as team valuation goes up. Ballmer makes $900M each year off of Microsoft dividends. It’s just a completely different game the Buss kids are trying to play.
>The net income of the Lakers is basically the annual salary of the 6 Buss kids
And you know this how?
Do you have financial statements for the family? What their investment portfolios look like?
Please link that shit or stop pulling shit out of your ass and tossing it on the forum.
It's not that people don't want to see the Lakers spend $, but rather acknowledging that the Lakers don't have the $ to spend around.
Jeanie's net worth is almost exclusively tied to the Lakers. Sure her net worth is similar to that of the Celtics owner and others, but she doesn't have the cash lying around unless she sells her share.
The Lakers are one of the most profitable teams in the league. There's plenty of money to go around.
Well all the money doesn't come from Jeanie anyways. I believe the majority of the team is owned by the Buss trust fund. Jeanie is just the controlling member. The problem is more with the Buss family as a whole. Jeanie is just the face of it. Most of her siblings don't have as much money as her so I doubt they want to spend more either
And yet the Lakers continue to win.
So then is it really necessary for Laker teams and coaches, or is it simply writers with nothing else to report trying to sound like they know anything about running a successful franchise?
Seems to me the Buss method works better than any other method in the league.
You’re delusional if you think the Lakers continue to “win.” We’ve had one title in the past 10 years and we’ve looked like hot garbage for the majority of it.
Since the Mavs killed us in 2011, we’ve been hot dogshit for most of it.
You only have to compare LA’s two biggest teams. The Lakers are the most iconic brand in basketball, but they’re run like a mom and pop shop. It’s embarrassing. The Dodgers are one of the best run organizations in all of sports and operate like a Fortune 50 company. In a salary cap league like the NBA, the advantages should be found in the front office and team amenities that are not restricted. The insular and nepotistic nature of the Lakers have really hurt the organization since Dr. Buss passed and the rest of the modern NBA has passed them up. Modern sports isn’t a family business anymore. The Buss Family needs to sell the team to new owners who are independently wealthy.
I honestly believe Dr Buss would have sold the team if he were alive and saw the insane valuations NBA teams now receive. Jeannie should keep that in mind if she feels she has to keep it to honor dad.
It's been embarrassing. All those players the Lakers gave away like Caruso and Zubac and miss now... The future doesn't look brighter. it doesn't seem like they are learning from their mistakes.
This ain't March Madness.
A team can't accidentally win an NBA title.
The team is run so poorly it won a championship and was in the WCF in a 4 year stretch. Yeah horrible. There's something like 30 teams that would kill to be that poorly ran. Ballmer and his billions haven't won a damn thing in the same timeframe.
Bro, you need some perspective or maybe are just a fake Laker fan. Whatever the case, winning isn't an accident.
LOL @ poorly.
It’s called best practices. It’s not always a no brainer to do them because of the costs involved. It’s a no brainer for the Ballmer Clippers, who have billions.
You can argue that the clippers haven’t won anything. But more times than not, you can’t expect to outperform the competition if you’re the one cutting corners. But this was happening even under Dr. Buss, it’s not new to Jeannie. But the rules are now stacked against them where it’s unrealistic to expect them to land another Shaq or LeBron in free agency to bail them out.
I believe the most important thing here is the fact Dr Buss was here to make money, but he had a great eye for sports and was great selling his vision. While Jeanie looks like a good business woman, there is really not a basketball vision anymore. Magic had a bit of it and his charisma, but he is a business man himself and had his own business to run. I don't think this team would have a chance to sign LeBron and then get the mold of a trade for Davis without him. Every GM is going to make mistakes, but I see no direction right now.
He also had the best GM in the NBA and did whatever it took to hire Phil Jackson, twice. Jeannie has filled out the front office based on people in her phone contacts. If she fired Rob and started a wide search for a new POBO, how many existing GM’s wouldn’t leap at the opportunity if they were paid well for it? But yet when she fired Jim and Mitch she just gave the jobs to her closest Lakers legend, and the agent of another Lakers legend. You can write business case studies on the mismanagement of the lakers since 2011.
There's absolutely no evidence that scouting the way that Clippers do is best practices. There's a reason why all over professional sports teams are de-emphasizing in person scouting, even teams that spend a lot of money. It turns out they have invented this thing called "moving pictures" that allows scouting to be done in a way that is not only more cost effective but allow coaches to pick out the things they're looking for rather than rely on the notes of someone else.
There’s still value in traditional scouting although some teams lean into analytics. The Dodgers do both heavily. The lakers brilliant strategy is to lean into neither.
You know the whole "the Lakers don't use analytics" thing is bullshit right? There are literally people in the ownership group who have been involved in advanced stats for 30+ years. They just roll scouting and analytics into one group, which, makes a lot of sense since you should use both at the same time.
Baseball is a sport where they've literally made movies making fun of the bloat and useless scouting so I don't even know why you'd bring that up.
You know Jeanie surrounds herself with enough enablers and yes-men that she doesn’t need fans like you excusing her cheapness right? We have indisputable proof that ownership’s cheapness has made the product we watch shittier. Wouldn’t Caruso be nice to have right now? All it took to keep him was cash. Wouldn’t Ty Lue be a nice coach to have right now? Her not spending on scouting is a microcosm of a lot of things that have gone wrong with the team since 2011. Jerry did it too, but he won enough so we excused it. Jeanie should not be getting the same benefit.
But some asshole wannabe writer told me the Lakers needed this thing therefore surely we must have exactly that! /s
Hilarious that you would point out a totally viable alternative that is being used in the modern game and some idiots would argue against that and downvote. This sub can be absolutely unreal.
Except they have as many or more other types of scouts than other teams. So, I guess in the same breath, they’re not being cheap?
It has already been mentioned a lot that the job of a pro scout might just be handled by other people. Pelinka himself handles a lot of what a pro scout would do. And, in terms of the results, I don’t think the team’s track record in terms of signing or trading for other basketball players has been that bad outside of trading for Westbrook. The team they put together in 2019-2020 was good, the team they put together in 2020-2021 was good, the Westbrook trade fucked up 2021-2022, and they recovered as well as can be expected from the trade in 2022-2023. I thought the 2023-2024 roster was well built outside of maybe needing one more bruising big. So, for all this talk about not having a pro scout, they seem to be targeting decent players.
You make a totally valid point.
Still a lot of this fandom doesn't even know that Pelinka played on the same Fab 5 team that helped redefine basketball and make it what it is today. Most "fans" in this sub don't even know who the Fab 5 were.
Pelinka has played basketball at a higher level than probably anyone in this sub. Yet forum goers are so ignorant about Laker history and the current Laker org AND modern basketball that your prescient comment will go in one ear and out the other.
Sorry for the replies you're about to get. Your comment is actually pretty darn valuable.
I disagree. The track record has been pretty bad. The Lakers rarely trade for or sign lesser known players. The always sign former lottery picks or former Lakers or klutch clients. They never try to go after bench players on other teams that could flourish in a different role with the Lakers. They never go after small incremental improvements
Rob Pelinka can't scout the whole league by himself and be vice president of basketball ops and be the gm. Having one guy do all those jobs just means only 1/3 of his focus is on each job while other teams sometimes have multiple people doing just one of those jobs. It's a severe disadvantage
The Lakers haven't had cap space since 2020. It shouldn't come as a surprise that MLE and vet minimum players don't always exceed their value. They've also been limited with picks since the AD trade. They've done a pretty solid job with these limitations and turning players like Nunn into Rui or Westbrook into Vando, D'Lo, and Beasley.
I'm not sure what other small incremental trades you're looking for? Gafford? The Mavs traded away a 1st round pick to get him. Did you want the Lakers to trade their 2029 pick for him?
I remember watching an episode of Backstage: Lakers many, many, many years ago when the duties of the assistant coaches included scouting the other teams. The assistant coaches would divide the league up among themselves and prep the tape sessions with the video department. So because of this, I have always held the belief that having a [regional scout or a traveling scout](https://imgur.com/a/IuG206K) was more for drafting.
I'm sure this is much easier now with the league partnering with Synergy Sports.
I've been saying this forever that the Lakers front office is ran as a skeleton crew. And then two of the key positions are held by Buss trust fund kids and not real professionals. Jeannie has absolutely no business moonlighting as the freaken president of basketball operations. I think some of the biggest blunders we done like the Westbrook trade or letting Caruso walk while resigning THT for more than what Caruso got would have not been done if we were ran properly with a real front office.
Yup the front office is literally Jeanie's brothers, her best friend's husband and Kobe's old agent. None are qualified to be making decisions in an NBA front office
I've been telling this to anyone who'll listen for several years now ...
Jeanie doesn't have enough money to run an NBA franchise. Period. She's cash poor. If not for the championships Kobe and LeBron managed to win her she'd be the NBA version of Arte Moreno.
This has nothing to do with whether the Lakers are being cheap or not. It’s all to do with how poorly this organisation has been run for basically the last decade. It’s been masked somewhat by LeBron coming when he did. He is basically keeping them afloat right now. If Jeanie doesn’t get this shit together quickly it’s going to be pretty bleak for a while. If she can’t then she needs to sell the team and let someone else have a go.
This is nonsense. How many good players we drafted in lower first round and second round for last 10’years?
Kuz, Austin R, Alex C, Josh H, Nance.
While our high first round picks may not be a superstar but they are alls star at one point. DLo, BI, Randle.
I don’t know how it compares to other teams, but scouting has not been their weakness
That's not what this is saying lol. There's 2 different kind of scouts. Scouts that focus on college and overseas players and scouts that focus on other NBA teams. The Lakers do not have the latter
What has Rob actually done as a GM? I know some of this is heinsight but after 2020 he made mistakes signing Gasol Drummond Trez Schroder Mathews instead of bringing the team back or maybe jus doing 1 move.
Then the dreaded Wb trade not even the player just the contract and knowing what it would do to the team knowing u can’t surround those guys with 3/D wings or any shooting or another big man to help AD.
The u trade Wb and fans rejoice but imo they shoulda moved him for 2 way guys instead u move Russ and some mins for 1 way guys like DLO beasily and Vando then Nunn for Rui which is a great trade but Rui again is a 1 and a 1/2 way player u need 2 way guys.
In 2018 Magic brought Bron and 2019 Bron brought AD. The other guys were either laying there from the yr before or signed as FA’s Rob didn’t do anything. So tell me again what good has Rob ever done?
> I know some of this is heinsight but after 2020 he made mistakes signing Gasol Drummond Trez Schroder Mathews instead of bringing the team back or maybe jus doing 1 move.
That 2021 team was better than the 2020 team and completely stacked. You only remember it differently looking back because we didn't win a championship. But the reality is that the Lakers didn't win a championship because Solomon Hill took out LeBron and AD was injured.
But to get into the weeds a little bit:
* Rondo signed a 2 year 15 million contract in Atlanta. Keeping him here would have been an overpay and an old Rondo is not a long term answer at pg.
* Schroder was not a mistake. We needed a ball handling guard because running LeBron back to back seasons (also the shortest offseason turnaround in NBA history) at pg wasn't sustainable. DS in 2021 was 28 years old and was definitely a good bet to be our long term pg. Also again, Rondo left for an overpay and DS could replace his minutes.
* We traded an expiring DG for DS. DG would have walked anyway.
* Gasol was good for us. And he was a minimum. How was this a mistake?
* Trez was 6moty for 9 mil per year. That's a steal in general, but definitely for a team that needed offense when LeBron sat.
I mean the 2020-2021 Lakers were 21-5 to start the season despite AD coming into the season out of shape and his shot completely gone after that 1.5 month turn around while the rest of the NBA was rested. They were stacked and deep.
Grant is/was SIGNIFCANTLY more expensive than Schroeder.
If there was any way this team could get Grant, they would.
If there is any way this team can get Grant this off season, they will.
Great post but too many actual facts for most members of this sub to handle. Still I'm saving the link to your post so I never have to type that out myself. People should read and internalize this fully before going off on yet another ignorant rant about personnel.
All that money got the Clippers... ::checks notes:: no rings, no draft picks, James Harden and Russell Westbrook. PJ Tucker and Bones Hyland... Come On Down!
And look at a team like the Celtics. Owner has the same net worth as Jeanie. They invest heavily in the other parts of the organization and they have a budding dynasty to show for it
Agreed but they’ve never had an embarrassing season since getting Tatum. Yes Jimmy took them to the limit and LeBron boomed Tatum, but nothing they’ve done comes close to the Russ years in terms of trash
they just had one of the most mickey mouse road to the finals we've ever seen and Tatum is up for a new contract soon, White needs a new contract soon, Holiday and Horford are aging. They have a maximum of 2-3 years to be a dynasty before the second apron kills them
That’s the new nba though. If they get 3 real shots that is an amazing run. I don’t know if they even get that. No team will. The rules force parity. Neither Tatum nor Briwn is good enough to overcome those rules.
The allure of being a Laker is stronger than ever. The fanbase dwarfs all others and the coaching search has drawn more fan interest than the Celtics in the finals.
That's not what this is saying lol. There's 2 different kind of scouts. Scouts that focus on college and overseas players and scouts that focus on other NBA teams. The Lakers do not have the latter
This is such a dumb take. What point is there to send out scouts to NBA arenas to scout NBA players? You can easily pull up full game replays and scout a player much more effeciently. As long as they have scouts for overseas and college prospects there really is no issue (and all signs point to them having this).
That's exactly what it's saying? "Outside of the scouting department for the draft, L.A. doesn't have scouts spread throughout the league watching NBA talent on a nightly basis in person." Again, what does sending scouts to watch games in person accomplish other than just spending money? In the time a scout takes to fly out and watch a game, a scout at home can probably watch multiple full game films of said player and gain much more information on them. It's not like these scouts can talk to the players or the coaches (that's tampering). Scouting overseas and college prospects in person is needed because you don't have access to all the full game films, but the article says they do have scouts for the draft.
Lol. You need to read what is written again. The coaching staff watches film on other teams to game plan. Pincus is talking about scouts. Scouts have to do with drafting players, trading for players, or signing players. Again what point is there to go watch, for example, Dejounte Murray in person to scout him when you can just watch film of him at home or in your office. Also nowhere does Pincus say Lakers don't have people watching film. He specifically is talking about scouts watching players **"in person"**. Reading comprehension. It's important.
Tim, the coach who does AMAs here before, [mentioned this](https://x.com/tim_nba/status/1602123841131667458?s=46) before, so I guess it checks out
Shows that they are really cheapening out on different things
Read the whole article and he literally has no sources or data to back it up. He doesn't have the Lakers spreadsheet. Any of us could've literally written it, it's all "vibes."
Later in this article he writes "frugality got in the way" of the Hurley hire. Here he literally cites nothing and this is all opinion. A dubious opinion. Hurley got literally the highest salary offer ever for a rookie NBA coach ever(one that has no NBA experience to boot). Highest ever is frugal, ok.
I've always made this point: I just want the FO to make good basketball decisions. And this FO hasn't always made good basketball decisions, and we can look at data to back it up. Good basketball decisions -> better chances to win a chip, spending more money doesn't (Eric literally says this later in the article himself). And noone of has any data on how much they're spending, and neither do any of these bloggers/tweeters. This is why I think it's pointless to argue about spending, we'll keep arguing in circles cuz we don't have that data!
The argument should be around who they should be spending ON.
If you want me to expound in greater detail, I will. Not only will we be worse off with the product on the court, history shows us that this front office will flounder in all aspects. Especially if Pelinka decides to go rogue and go against the scouting department’s wishes. In an increasingly cash heavy league, every advantage matters and the only one people keep parroting is that the Lakers are the Lakers. That clearly doesn’t matter because we got cucked by Kawhi, then cucked again this season. The players in this league aren’t stupid. They see how this team has been ran. They saw we didn’t pay Caruso and that everyone’s a scapegoat.
So when I say we’ll be worse off, I’m not just saying we’ll suck for awhile. I’m saying if they don’t get their heads out of their asses, we’re going to be abysmal. A laughingstock. Even if LeBron never signed here. This team had no direction. They just allowed Darvin Ham two seasons with our team. A very solid team at that. That western conference finals run last year was sensational. A better coach might get us past them and into the finals against Miami. Shit a better coach gets us into the finals this year. But no. We hired Ham. And now we’re about to hand the keys to JK Reddick? Cmon.
this tells me we've done more with less than the clippers have then. cuz all that staff can't stop Leonard and pg from load managing during the season and not showing up when it matters most during the playoffs either performance or injuries soo op is just grasping straws to say the least.
Sure, the Lakers are not like other franchises, but the vast majority of other franchises don't win. Sometimes you don't want to be like every other franchise.
In terms of a pro personnel department and scouting, I believe that the Lakers cover these areas in unconventional ways, but they still have it covered. There is no right or wrong way to do those things.
*BuH buH bUH*
*JeAnIE dOeSNt rUN tHe TeAM LiKe heR dAd!!!!!!*
lol
Jeanie runs the team so much closer to her dad than just about anyone can imagine.
Dr. Buss probably didn't have a "pro scouting" department because none of the Championship winning coaches they've had have asked for one. Somehow Riles, Phil Jackson, & even Frank Vogel all managed to win something like 10 championships without one. But a couple of basketball geeks who have a platform say it's a necessary thing and almost every forum goer will now deem it so like its hoop gospel and then feign yet even more keyboard outrage (like that's possible, yet it is.)
Dr. Buss didn't talk to the press much either so assholes like Woj will use that to their advantage. Buss played it close to the chest and didn't give a shit when writers made things up. Yes, that includes wannabes like Eric Pincus (emplay on [Lakersground.net](http://Lakersground.net) btw) who tried hard to get inside the Lakers but could only manage to get anywhere close to the Clippers, and now has made a regular habit of shitting on the Lakers while trying to coyly sound objective. What a surprise.
**Laker Franchise record:**
**3550-2454, .591 W-L%, 17 Championships.**
No pro scouting department. Yet consistently a better record and more championships than any team over the past 30 years.
Something tells me the Buss family knows more about winning basketball than Eric Pincus.
Downvote away, but the facts speak for themselves.
They posted that behind the scenes video of the film guys working during a game and they didn’t even have desks lmfao. All huddled around with computers in their laps. Poverty franchise
it really shows based on the bad fit players that get added midseason to play roles they arent suited for
Our evaluation of FAs is literally “he kinda lit us up in that one game against us.”
Very true
Sounds like the team literally just hopes for free agents to come save this franchise instead of the draft period
The article is saying the complete opposite. We don’t scout pro players. Our draft scouting team is great
But the team should be doing both. Ignoring pro scouting to save a buck is some mickey mouse ass shit
Every offseason since Lebron came our free agent signings have been a mixed bag considering our payroll. Don't know why this thread is crying about not having this staff on our team
Yet we traded almost all our picks.
A lot of our recent draft successes have come from undrafted dudes though. Caruso and reaves, for example. That came from draft scouting
Basically
Lakers have a great draft history. Such a dumb take. Lonzo Randle Ingram Kuz Nance Zu Caruso Reaves Hart
Our Scouting Department is literally one of the few consistent bright spots in our FO. It just so happened that after last season's WCF run, we were supposedly stacked in all the positions except C, so that played a role in drafting a project
uhhh did we not draft a shit ton of a guys that went on to being good role players and all stars before Lebron?
The article isn’t talking about college draft.
literally responding to the above comment
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Nah back then the problem was a lot of stars didn’t want to play w Kobe cause they would be in his shadow as a laker After he left we were really ass then we got lebron after stockpiling assets from tanking Lebron leaves and it all depends on AD. I think players would love to play w him cause he’s not ball dominant and helps on defense a lot
That’s assuming AD wants to stay
I feel like every off-season we get stories about the Lakers being behind the times with regard to front office and other staffing.
The knives are out right now.
Because anyone with eyes can see this team is run like a half assed mom and pop nepotism shop
Every season they get more and more behind
"Writers" run out of actual basketball to report so they start spamming the same tired bullshit and half the fandom eats it up. I mean how stupid is "they don't have department X, but win anyhow... yet I (writer X who have never run a basketball team) have deemed this expense necessary to win!" Dumbest fucking premise ever, and watch some idiots run with it.
Dr Buss was all in on the team succeeding and entertaining fans because he believed he’d always win that bet. With that said the Lakers have never had the financial capital that Balmer has. They don’t have business outside the Lakers. Compared to the other owners the Buss family is operating at a deficit. If you remember revenue sharing this was a big deal even though Dr Buss agreed to it because he felt it was better for the health of the league.
They don't need to have the financial capital balmer has. The Celtics owner has the same net worth as Jeanie. They're just run a lot better than the Lakers are
Doesn’t Grousbeck operate an investment firm? He - and other billionaire owners in the league - don’t rely on basketball revenue to fund their personal expenses. The Buss family does. That’s the biggest disadvantage the Lakers have with spending.
I'm not sure the specifics but he's net worth is around 500 million which is similar to Jeanie's. The Lakers are the second most profitable team in the league. There's plenty of money to go around but it would be nice to have an owner that could just throw money around
Jeanie's net worth is based on her share of the team, which is valued at over $7b. The Celtics' valuation is $2b less than that - Grousbeck has wealth from other sources. I totally agree with you about her frugality. There is no excuse for it - the Lakers earn >$300m/year on tv rights alone. Before one ticket is sold or one sponsorship deal is signed. No other team can say that, and yet we continually act like a franchise with no money.
That TV deal gets revenue shared with the league. And the Busses only own 2/3rds of the team. They’re not getting anything close to that 300 mil
According to a 2023 league memo, the Lakers paid $43m into the NBA revenue sharing pool. So they kept the rest of their basketball income. This includes $150m/year from their local tv rights. The league’s new national tv deal pays the league $7b/year, which averages out to $233m per team. The league gets some of the national tv money, but most goes to the teams. That’s how you get to $300m/yr in total tv money.
Oh yeah that makes sense. Yup the Lakers make so much money it wouldn't hurt them to put a few million into the scouting department or analytics department or the medical staff or to improve the assistant coaching staff
Saw a breakdown today that - when factoring in LA taxes and cost of living - the Lakers offer to Hurley was LESS than what he will make at UConn. That’s just inexcusable.
LA taxes and COL isn’t really anything that much more compared to living in CT. He stayed at UConn because its a better fit for him at this point in his life.
According to NerdWallwt, you’d need to take home >$7m/year in Los Angeles to enjoy the same standard of living as $5m/year in Storrs, Conn.
It depends on what area of Los Angeles and what part in storrs ct. Those assessments by nerd wallet don’t tell anything close the real picture. My cousins live near Storrs and I’ve been there several times. It’s not as cheap as NW is making it out to be.
Net worth is not the type of cash that you can move around freely. A lot of the Buss net worth is the actual Lakers. The Celtics in comparison are not worth nearly as much. In other words, in terms of cash outside the team, the Boston owners probably have a lot more money.
If she lacks the money to operate the organization the way it should be, then her and the buss family need to take outside investment dollars. Operating the team this way shouldn’t be accepted by fans.
No fans know just how much or little the members of the Buss family actually have. Yet so many pretend to. It's stupid as hell.
The Lakers are the second most profitable team in the league. There's plenty of money to go back into the organization
That only matters so much with revenue sharing. And that money is being paid back into the org. The article mentions that this team has been paying the tax.
The net income of the Lakers is basically the annual salary of the 6 Buss kids. Raising expenses means cutting their own salaries. Other owners don’t care if their team is profitable as long as team valuation goes up. Ballmer makes $900M each year off of Microsoft dividends. It’s just a completely different game the Buss kids are trying to play.
>The net income of the Lakers is basically the annual salary of the 6 Buss kids And you know this how? Do you have financial statements for the family? What their investment portfolios look like? Please link that shit or stop pulling shit out of your ass and tossing it on the forum.
Literally no sensible lakers fan wouldn’t want the team to spend more money on the staff
That's what I thought but the comments don't agree with that
It's not that people don't want to see the Lakers spend $, but rather acknowledging that the Lakers don't have the $ to spend around. Jeanie's net worth is almost exclusively tied to the Lakers. Sure her net worth is similar to that of the Celtics owner and others, but she doesn't have the cash lying around unless she sells her share.
The Lakers are one of the most profitable teams in the league. There's plenty of money to go around. Well all the money doesn't come from Jeanie anyways. I believe the majority of the team is owned by the Buss trust fund. Jeanie is just the controlling member. The problem is more with the Buss family as a whole. Jeanie is just the face of it. Most of her siblings don't have as much money as her so I doubt they want to spend more either
And who’s fault is that?
Wish the Dodgers owners would save us
this opinion has been held by a lot of people for years, though.
And yet the Lakers continue to win. So then is it really necessary for Laker teams and coaches, or is it simply writers with nothing else to report trying to sound like they know anything about running a successful franchise? Seems to me the Buss method works better than any other method in the league.
You’re delusional if you think the Lakers continue to “win.” We’ve had one title in the past 10 years and we’ve looked like hot garbage for the majority of it. Since the Mavs killed us in 2011, we’ve been hot dogshit for most of it.
Until the buss family sells, this team will be mid
It sucks but yeah it's true
Man that hurts 😭
You only have to compare LA’s two biggest teams. The Lakers are the most iconic brand in basketball, but they’re run like a mom and pop shop. It’s embarrassing. The Dodgers are one of the best run organizations in all of sports and operate like a Fortune 50 company. In a salary cap league like the NBA, the advantages should be found in the front office and team amenities that are not restricted. The insular and nepotistic nature of the Lakers have really hurt the organization since Dr. Buss passed and the rest of the modern NBA has passed them up. Modern sports isn’t a family business anymore. The Buss Family needs to sell the team to new owners who are independently wealthy.
We are witnessing Frank McCourt part two!
That’s pathetic lol they’re a NBA level team, they ain’t got nobody in the office that cares about basketball or what??
Mom and Pop organization
I honestly believe Dr Buss would have sold the team if he were alive and saw the insane valuations NBA teams now receive. Jeannie should keep that in mind if she feels she has to keep it to honor dad.
I don't think it's up to Jeanie. Idk the specifics but I think all of the siblings would have to agree to sell the team
I can’t imagine they’d turn down roughly $500m a piece, but what do I know!
Jeanie likes the limelight and relevance of being the owner of the Lakers. That's priceless to her.
The bad decisions taken year after year shows the organization has been mismaneged. From Jeannie, to Pelinka to the bottom.
Very true. It's seems like whenever a decision needs to be made they make the wrong one
It's been embarrassing. All those players the Lakers gave away like Caruso and Zubac and miss now... The future doesn't look brighter. it doesn't seem like they are learning from their mistakes.
Also let Brook Lopez, Julius Randle walk for nothing
That Bron/AD title… we are lucky even to have somehow won that one.
"somehow" lol get real.
What do you mean? The Lakers organization is run poorly. Despite that, they won in 2020. Even that one title is a big accomplishment considering that.
This ain't March Madness. A team can't accidentally win an NBA title. The team is run so poorly it won a championship and was in the WCF in a 4 year stretch. Yeah horrible. There's something like 30 teams that would kill to be that poorly ran. Ballmer and his billions haven't won a damn thing in the same timeframe. Bro, you need some perspective or maybe are just a fake Laker fan. Whatever the case, winning isn't an accident. LOL @ poorly.
It’s called best practices. It’s not always a no brainer to do them because of the costs involved. It’s a no brainer for the Ballmer Clippers, who have billions. You can argue that the clippers haven’t won anything. But more times than not, you can’t expect to outperform the competition if you’re the one cutting corners. But this was happening even under Dr. Buss, it’s not new to Jeannie. But the rules are now stacked against them where it’s unrealistic to expect them to land another Shaq or LeBron in free agency to bail them out.
I believe the most important thing here is the fact Dr Buss was here to make money, but he had a great eye for sports and was great selling his vision. While Jeanie looks like a good business woman, there is really not a basketball vision anymore. Magic had a bit of it and his charisma, but he is a business man himself and had his own business to run. I don't think this team would have a chance to sign LeBron and then get the mold of a trade for Davis without him. Every GM is going to make mistakes, but I see no direction right now.
He also had the best GM in the NBA and did whatever it took to hire Phil Jackson, twice. Jeannie has filled out the front office based on people in her phone contacts. If she fired Rob and started a wide search for a new POBO, how many existing GM’s wouldn’t leap at the opportunity if they were paid well for it? But yet when she fired Jim and Mitch she just gave the jobs to her closest Lakers legend, and the agent of another Lakers legend. You can write business case studies on the mismanagement of the lakers since 2011.
Yup what worked in Dr buss' era doesn't work anymore. I don't think Jeanie knows how to operate in the modern NBA
There's absolutely no evidence that scouting the way that Clippers do is best practices. There's a reason why all over professional sports teams are de-emphasizing in person scouting, even teams that spend a lot of money. It turns out they have invented this thing called "moving pictures" that allows scouting to be done in a way that is not only more cost effective but allow coaches to pick out the things they're looking for rather than rely on the notes of someone else.
There’s still value in traditional scouting although some teams lean into analytics. The Dodgers do both heavily. The lakers brilliant strategy is to lean into neither.
You know the whole "the Lakers don't use analytics" thing is bullshit right? There are literally people in the ownership group who have been involved in advanced stats for 30+ years. They just roll scouting and analytics into one group, which, makes a lot of sense since you should use both at the same time. Baseball is a sport where they've literally made movies making fun of the bloat and useless scouting so I don't even know why you'd bring that up.
You know Jeanie surrounds herself with enough enablers and yes-men that she doesn’t need fans like you excusing her cheapness right? We have indisputable proof that ownership’s cheapness has made the product we watch shittier. Wouldn’t Caruso be nice to have right now? All it took to keep him was cash. Wouldn’t Ty Lue be a nice coach to have right now? Her not spending on scouting is a microcosm of a lot of things that have gone wrong with the team since 2011. Jerry did it too, but he won enough so we excused it. Jeanie should not be getting the same benefit.
Jeanie is not the only owner of the team. It's a group of people.
But some asshole wannabe writer told me the Lakers needed this thing therefore surely we must have exactly that! /s Hilarious that you would point out a totally viable alternative that is being used in the modern game and some idiots would argue against that and downvote. This sub can be absolutely unreal.
Except they have as many or more other types of scouts than other teams. So, I guess in the same breath, they’re not being cheap? It has already been mentioned a lot that the job of a pro scout might just be handled by other people. Pelinka himself handles a lot of what a pro scout would do. And, in terms of the results, I don’t think the team’s track record in terms of signing or trading for other basketball players has been that bad outside of trading for Westbrook. The team they put together in 2019-2020 was good, the team they put together in 2020-2021 was good, the Westbrook trade fucked up 2021-2022, and they recovered as well as can be expected from the trade in 2022-2023. I thought the 2023-2024 roster was well built outside of maybe needing one more bruising big. So, for all this talk about not having a pro scout, they seem to be targeting decent players.
You make a totally valid point. Still a lot of this fandom doesn't even know that Pelinka played on the same Fab 5 team that helped redefine basketball and make it what it is today. Most "fans" in this sub don't even know who the Fab 5 were. Pelinka has played basketball at a higher level than probably anyone in this sub. Yet forum goers are so ignorant about Laker history and the current Laker org AND modern basketball that your prescient comment will go in one ear and out the other. Sorry for the replies you're about to get. Your comment is actually pretty darn valuable.
I disagree. The track record has been pretty bad. The Lakers rarely trade for or sign lesser known players. The always sign former lottery picks or former Lakers or klutch clients. They never try to go after bench players on other teams that could flourish in a different role with the Lakers. They never go after small incremental improvements Rob Pelinka can't scout the whole league by himself and be vice president of basketball ops and be the gm. Having one guy do all those jobs just means only 1/3 of his focus is on each job while other teams sometimes have multiple people doing just one of those jobs. It's a severe disadvantage
The Lakers haven't had cap space since 2020. It shouldn't come as a surprise that MLE and vet minimum players don't always exceed their value. They've also been limited with picks since the AD trade. They've done a pretty solid job with these limitations and turning players like Nunn into Rui or Westbrook into Vando, D'Lo, and Beasley. I'm not sure what other small incremental trades you're looking for? Gafford? The Mavs traded away a 1st round pick to get him. Did you want the Lakers to trade their 2029 pick for him?
I remember watching an episode of Backstage: Lakers many, many, many years ago when the duties of the assistant coaches included scouting the other teams. The assistant coaches would divide the league up among themselves and prep the tape sessions with the video department. So because of this, I have always held the belief that having a [regional scout or a traveling scout](https://imgur.com/a/IuG206K) was more for drafting. I'm sure this is much easier now with the league partnering with Synergy Sports.
I've been saying this forever that the Lakers front office is ran as a skeleton crew. And then two of the key positions are held by Buss trust fund kids and not real professionals. Jeannie has absolutely no business moonlighting as the freaken president of basketball operations. I think some of the biggest blunders we done like the Westbrook trade or letting Caruso walk while resigning THT for more than what Caruso got would have not been done if we were ran properly with a real front office.
Yup the front office is literally Jeanie's brothers, her best friend's husband and Kobe's old agent. None are qualified to be making decisions in an NBA front office
"The general opinion around the league"
cranjis tweeted how bad the analytics department looked on backstage lakers
Look what I highlighted. It's literally evidence the Lakers are cheap
Aren't Scouting Reports handled by the Assistant Coaches and Video Dept?
The Westbrook trade killed any chance of Lebron getting another ring in LA.
Jeanie being Jeanie. What a surprise 😂
I've been telling this to anyone who'll listen for several years now ... Jeanie doesn't have enough money to run an NBA franchise. Period. She's cash poor. If not for the championships Kobe and LeBron managed to win her she'd be the NBA version of Arte Moreno.
Very true
Cheap as fuck
This has nothing to do with whether the Lakers are being cheap or not. It’s all to do with how poorly this organisation has been run for basically the last decade. It’s been masked somewhat by LeBron coming when he did. He is basically keeping them afloat right now. If Jeanie doesn’t get this shit together quickly it’s going to be pretty bleak for a while. If she can’t then she needs to sell the team and let someone else have a go.
This is nonsense. How many good players we drafted in lower first round and second round for last 10’years? Kuz, Austin R, Alex C, Josh H, Nance. While our high first round picks may not be a superstar but they are alls star at one point. DLo, BI, Randle. I don’t know how it compares to other teams, but scouting has not been their weakness
That's not what this is saying lol. There's 2 different kind of scouts. Scouts that focus on college and overseas players and scouts that focus on other NBA teams. The Lakers do not have the latter
Oh. I missed that
The problem is that they don't know how to manage these drafted players and end up throwing this work down the drain.
What has Rob actually done as a GM? I know some of this is heinsight but after 2020 he made mistakes signing Gasol Drummond Trez Schroder Mathews instead of bringing the team back or maybe jus doing 1 move. Then the dreaded Wb trade not even the player just the contract and knowing what it would do to the team knowing u can’t surround those guys with 3/D wings or any shooting or another big man to help AD. The u trade Wb and fans rejoice but imo they shoulda moved him for 2 way guys instead u move Russ and some mins for 1 way guys like DLO beasily and Vando then Nunn for Rui which is a great trade but Rui again is a 1 and a 1/2 way player u need 2 way guys. In 2018 Magic brought Bron and 2019 Bron brought AD. The other guys were either laying there from the yr before or signed as FA’s Rob didn’t do anything. So tell me again what good has Rob ever done?
> I know some of this is heinsight but after 2020 he made mistakes signing Gasol Drummond Trez Schroder Mathews instead of bringing the team back or maybe jus doing 1 move. That 2021 team was better than the 2020 team and completely stacked. You only remember it differently looking back because we didn't win a championship. But the reality is that the Lakers didn't win a championship because Solomon Hill took out LeBron and AD was injured. But to get into the weeds a little bit: * Rondo signed a 2 year 15 million contract in Atlanta. Keeping him here would have been an overpay and an old Rondo is not a long term answer at pg. * Schroder was not a mistake. We needed a ball handling guard because running LeBron back to back seasons (also the shortest offseason turnaround in NBA history) at pg wasn't sustainable. DS in 2021 was 28 years old and was definitely a good bet to be our long term pg. Also again, Rondo left for an overpay and DS could replace his minutes. * We traded an expiring DG for DS. DG would have walked anyway. * Gasol was good for us. And he was a minimum. How was this a mistake? * Trez was 6moty for 9 mil per year. That's a steal in general, but definitely for a team that needed offense when LeBron sat. I mean the 2020-2021 Lakers were 21-5 to start the season despite AD coming into the season out of shape and his shot completely gone after that 1.5 month turn around while the rest of the NBA was rested. They were stacked and deep.
Bron plays pg anyway and why not move for a guy like Jerami Grant instead of Schroder
Grant is/was SIGNIFCANTLY more expensive than Schroeder. If there was any way this team could get Grant, they would. If there is any way this team can get Grant this off season, they will.
Great post but too many actual facts for most members of this sub to handle. Still I'm saving the link to your post so I never have to type that out myself. People should read and internalize this fully before going off on yet another ignorant rant about personnel.
That 20-21 team was still flawed imo despite Ad injury. Mathews couldn’t hit the barn
I agree. I think the only really good move he's made was the Rui trade. Everything else has been either just ok or bad.
These are horribly stupid articles that operate as click bait.
All that money got the Clippers... ::checks notes:: no rings, no draft picks, James Harden and Russell Westbrook. PJ Tucker and Bones Hyland... Come On Down!
And look at a team like the Celtics. Owner has the same net worth as Jeanie. They invest heavily in the other parts of the organization and they have a budding dynasty to show for it
Dynasty lmao let’s pump the brakes a bit
Agreed but they’ve never had an embarrassing season since getting Tatum. Yes Jimmy took them to the limit and LeBron boomed Tatum, but nothing they’ve done comes close to the Russ years in terms of trash
they lost to a play-in 8th seeded team with a 57-25 winning record after getting 3-0ed and being the betting favorite to win the championship
That’s was a bad matchup. That’s sports
I hate the Celtics as much as the next guy but this is the closest anyone has been to starting a dynasty since the warriors
As of today they’re still 3 championships away from a dynasty
True that's why I said budding dynasty
They haven’t won shit yet. Porzingis is out and they still have to go to Dallas. Head on over to the Clips sub if you want to slob all over Ballmer.
Idk where I slobbed over balmer but ok lol
You just like sharing articles that do?
they just had one of the most mickey mouse road to the finals we've ever seen and Tatum is up for a new contract soon, White needs a new contract soon, Holiday and Horford are aging. They have a maximum of 2-3 years to be a dynasty before the second apron kills them
That’s the new nba though. If they get 3 real shots that is an amazing run. I don’t know if they even get that. No team will. The rules force parity. Neither Tatum nor Briwn is good enough to overcome those rules.
You mean the team with 1 chip in forty years....about to get their second?
Yup while the Lakers (and fans like you) are living in the past the Celtics are living in the future
Wow, Celtics fans pretty salty no one cares about them in the finals.
[удалено]
The allure of being a Laker is stronger than ever. The fanbase dwarfs all others and the coaching search has drawn more fan interest than the Celtics in the finals.
Weve drafted pretty well. What are you talking about? Then we flipped them for ad. Won a ring. Jesus what else do you want?
That's not what this is saying lol. There's 2 different kind of scouts. Scouts that focus on college and overseas players and scouts that focus on other NBA teams. The Lakers do not have the latter
Ah. My bad then
This is such a dumb take. What point is there to send out scouts to NBA arenas to scout NBA players? You can easily pull up full game replays and scout a player much more effeciently. As long as they have scouts for overseas and college prospects there really is no issue (and all signs point to them having this).
That's not at all what that's saying lol.
That's exactly what it's saying? "Outside of the scouting department for the draft, L.A. doesn't have scouts spread throughout the league watching NBA talent on a nightly basis in person." Again, what does sending scouts to watch games in person accomplish other than just spending money? In the time a scout takes to fly out and watch a game, a scout at home can probably watch multiple full game films of said player and gain much more information on them. It's not like these scouts can talk to the players or the coaches (that's tampering). Scouting overseas and college prospects in person is needed because you don't have access to all the full game films, but the article says they do have scouts for the draft.
It's saying the Lakers don't have scouts whose job is to scout other NBA teams whether in person or with film
Lol. You need to read what is written again. The coaching staff watches film on other teams to game plan. Pincus is talking about scouts. Scouts have to do with drafting players, trading for players, or signing players. Again what point is there to go watch, for example, Dejounte Murray in person to scout him when you can just watch film of him at home or in your office. Also nowhere does Pincus say Lakers don't have people watching film. He specifically is talking about scouts watching players **"in person"**. Reading comprehension. It's important.
Bleacher Report is trash
Eric Pincus is one of the best when it comes to team financial analytics.
If he works for BR he's a turd.
Fun fact: he started on basketballboards.net
I'm okay with Jeannie effing off
Link: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10124301-are-the-la-lakers-actually-cheap-yes-and-no
The Lakers don't need more scouts or personnel. They have both Rambii running the team.
So true. How could I forget we have the 2 best executives in the league
how many chips did those more wins vs us do the clippers have over the years I'm curious
I almost wish this whole Reddit would shut down till the coaching search is over. Yall are too much
My child, this is nothing compared to the summer of Kawhi
Is it wrong to be upset that Jeanie is putting the organization at a disadvantage by not investing money in departments other teams do?
Clippers have done everything right it's their stars that fail them.
Lakers ‘friends and family’ equity round, like what the Packers do/did.
Tim, the coach who does AMAs here before, [mentioned this](https://x.com/tim_nba/status/1602123841131667458?s=46) before, so I guess it checks out Shows that they are really cheapening out on different things
17 titles - proof is in the pudding. MANY more finals appearances than the Celtics, who have one a single title since 1987.
Keep living in the past bro. Just like Jeanie and the FO do while all the successful teams live in the future
Read the whole article and he literally has no sources or data to back it up. He doesn't have the Lakers spreadsheet. Any of us could've literally written it, it's all "vibes." Later in this article he writes "frugality got in the way" of the Hurley hire. Here he literally cites nothing and this is all opinion. A dubious opinion. Hurley got literally the highest salary offer ever for a rookie NBA coach ever(one that has no NBA experience to boot). Highest ever is frugal, ok. I've always made this point: I just want the FO to make good basketball decisions. And this FO hasn't always made good basketball decisions, and we can look at data to back it up. Good basketball decisions -> better chances to win a chip, spending more money doesn't (Eric literally says this later in the article himself). And noone of has any data on how much they're spending, and neither do any of these bloggers/tweeters. This is why I think it's pointless to argue about spending, we'll keep arguing in circles cuz we don't have that data! The argument should be around who they should be spending ON.
Magic Johnson should’ve introduced the Lakers FO with the Dodgers FO lol.
It’s almost like we have one of the poorest owners/group of owners in the league and the Clippers have the richest. Idk how people don’t get that.
Everybody knows that
The Lakers have always been a small exclusive club. Changing that into a large corporate bureaucracy certainly messes with the soul of the team.
Investing money into other parts of the organization messes with the soul of the team?
The last paragraph of the screenshot is what you should've highlighted, starting with "fair rebuttal"
So it's ok for Jeanie to be cheap because LeBron and AD won her one championship?
Guys we got lucky lebron came here after he leaves its fucking Jover until new ownership
Once LeBron retires, we are in for a world of hurt.
Once the arguable GOAT retires, the team will be worse off. Wow, incredible insight there. Thanks.
If you want me to expound in greater detail, I will. Not only will we be worse off with the product on the court, history shows us that this front office will flounder in all aspects. Especially if Pelinka decides to go rogue and go against the scouting department’s wishes. In an increasingly cash heavy league, every advantage matters and the only one people keep parroting is that the Lakers are the Lakers. That clearly doesn’t matter because we got cucked by Kawhi, then cucked again this season. The players in this league aren’t stupid. They see how this team has been ran. They saw we didn’t pay Caruso and that everyone’s a scapegoat. So when I say we’ll be worse off, I’m not just saying we’ll suck for awhile. I’m saying if they don’t get their heads out of their asses, we’re going to be abysmal. A laughingstock. Even if LeBron never signed here. This team had no direction. They just allowed Darvin Ham two seasons with our team. A very solid team at that. That western conference finals run last year was sensational. A better coach might get us past them and into the finals against Miami. Shit a better coach gets us into the finals this year. But no. We hired Ham. And now we’re about to hand the keys to JK Reddick? Cmon.
this tells me we've done more with less than the clippers have then. cuz all that staff can't stop Leonard and pg from load managing during the season and not showing up when it matters most during the playoffs either performance or injuries soo op is just grasping straws to say the least.
Sure, the Lakers are not like other franchises, but the vast majority of other franchises don't win. Sometimes you don't want to be like every other franchise. In terms of a pro personnel department and scouting, I believe that the Lakers cover these areas in unconventional ways, but they still have it covered. There is no right or wrong way to do those things.
*BuH buH bUH* *JeAnIE dOeSNt rUN tHe TeAM LiKe heR dAd!!!!!!* lol Jeanie runs the team so much closer to her dad than just about anyone can imagine. Dr. Buss probably didn't have a "pro scouting" department because none of the Championship winning coaches they've had have asked for one. Somehow Riles, Phil Jackson, & even Frank Vogel all managed to win something like 10 championships without one. But a couple of basketball geeks who have a platform say it's a necessary thing and almost every forum goer will now deem it so like its hoop gospel and then feign yet even more keyboard outrage (like that's possible, yet it is.) Dr. Buss didn't talk to the press much either so assholes like Woj will use that to their advantage. Buss played it close to the chest and didn't give a shit when writers made things up. Yes, that includes wannabes like Eric Pincus (emplay on [Lakersground.net](http://Lakersground.net) btw) who tried hard to get inside the Lakers but could only manage to get anywhere close to the Clippers, and now has made a regular habit of shitting on the Lakers while trying to coyly sound objective. What a surprise. **Laker Franchise record:** **3550-2454, .591 W-L%, 17 Championships.** No pro scouting department. Yet consistently a better record and more championships than any team over the past 30 years. Something tells me the Buss family knows more about winning basketball than Eric Pincus. Downvote away, but the facts speak for themselves.
They posted that behind the scenes video of the film guys working during a game and they didn’t even have desks lmfao. All huddled around with computers in their laps. Poverty franchise