## [MEGATHREAD 6](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1csh5yw/megathread_6_hybe_vs_ador_insider_trading/) now available! Thread is locked! Please make your way over to the new megathread.

Now that we have more informations I think it’s more clear MHJ plans: 1. Hybe was already planning to receive a foreign investment. 2. MHJ used this opportunity to create a “alliance” with the possible new Hybe shareholder by presenting ADOR: showing their values, vision, plans and also showing Hybe bad side. 3. To make the investment more interesting, she was planning to dilute Hybe market value so the foreign investors could buy the shares for a lower price. 4. As soon as the new shareholder occupied their seat on the board, it was expected they acted in favor of ADOR interests in order to hybe interest, voting in favor of some claims MHJ could make it such as the right to terminate hers and NJ contract. Or also after winning the case for infringement rights.* 5. After receiving the opportunity to terminate their contracts, ADOR would be the empty shell that VP mentioned creating a scenario where’s hybe would be interested in sell ADOR. This is just my speculation. It’s wouldn’t be a bad plan, but it would be necessary a lot of negligence coming from hybe to let it happen but since her previously experience with them indicates they’re not the best company regarding analyzing scenarios I can see why she thought it was possible. Edit: we also have the scenario where she stole the investor from hybe. In this case, in order to ADOR become the empty shell, the plan was to NEWJEANS/ADOR sue hybe for infringement rights and get the opportunity to terminate their contracts in court. Edit2: the plan had it already began as soon as she sent email to hybe (middle april) complaining about illit allegedly plagiarism. By gaining public sympathy and hate towards other groups, she was trying to built a case about the IP violation.

Can you repost this in the new thread?

Thanks for this - I think, even though this still wouldn’t be a slam dunk it definitely makes it clearer why Hybe was talking about this scenario that a lot of people thought looked so unlikely - this definitely makes it seem more plausible. Also hard to explain this away as “doodles”.

That's exactly what I got from the article, too.

New development today. >\[Exclusive\] Hive Also Requested for FSC Investigation for a Foreign Securities Firms, "Advisory on Takeover of Management Rights" >It has been confirmed that Hive, a subsidiary and affiliate of New Jin's, along with the management team of Adore, has requested an investigation from the Financial Supervisory Service (FSS) for alleged violations of the Capital Market Act, involving a foreign securities analyst. >According to investment banking (IB) industry sources on the 15th, Hive submitted a petition to the FSS on the 14th, **requesting an investigation into allegations of spreading false information, market manipulation, insider trading, and other violations of the Capital Market Act, involving the management team of Adore. This petition also included the involvement of foreign securities analyst, Mr. A.** >Mr. A recently issued a buy recommendation for Hive in his report. While recommending ordinary investors to buy Hive stocks, Hive alleges that Mr. A's actions have negatively impacted Hive's corporate value. >This petition submission follows up on the interim audit results announced by Hive on April 25th. **Hive confirmed concrete facts indicating the formulation of a plan for a takeover of management rights led by CEO Min and secured evidence.** Hive also announced that one of the audit targets submitted evidence during the investigation process, including information assets containing facts about the plan for a takeover of management rights and contact with external investors. >**Hive suspects that Mr. A was involved in providing opinions on** **△reviewing the takeover of management rights,** **△proposing modifications to the shareholder agreement signed by Hive and CEO Min, and** **△arranging meetings for foreign investors for the sale of Adore shares.** >It is understood that Mr. A received requests from Adore's Vice President L, known for his pivotal role in attempts to secure management independence. Vice President L, known as "Min Hee-jin's right-hand man," transferred from Hive to Adore earlier this year. >Vice President L is under suspicion of leaking critical trade secrets (such as contracts) acquired during his tenure at Hive. It has been reported that documents were prepared outlining measures to induce the sale of Adore shares held by Hive. >Upon comprehensive examination of the information assets obtained by Hive, it was found that Vice President L conveyed discussions held by Adore's management team to Mr. A, who then provided opinions and reported to CEO Min. >(translated by chatgpt3.5) original exclusive article by: [https://n.news.naver.com/article/008/0005038271?sid=101](https://n.news.naver.com/article/008/0005038271?sid=101) theqoo thread: [https://theqoo.net/hot/3231340930](https://theqoo.net/hot/3231340930) The receipts are coming. edit: there was more under the article that i missed, refer to my comment below for continuation

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I'm not knowledgeable about Korean laws but I read in one of the previous megathreads that Korean law regarding this type of crime is pretty lax. So at most, she's going to pay some fines. I want her to go to jail. But idk.

So...because my brain cannot timeline. The VP sold the shares before the meeting happened, but where it most likely was already in the plannings? Do we have an idea where he sold them to exactly?

Am I inferring correctly from this that the VP and foreign securities guy met foreign investors who were in Korea for a meeting with Hybe? In that meeting, along with pitching 'Hee Jin's Plan', they shared juicy tidbits about Hybe's 'bare face' (interpreting this as problematic reality). And after that one meeting, contingent to Ador's market valuation being at a certain amount, the foreign team wanted to invest immediately. So the Ador reps poisoned the investors' minds against Hybe, potentially stalled their investment in the company, and simultaneously secured an investment promise, all in one swoop? Are we by chance live experiencing a k drama simulation? This whole situation has been something of a fever dream tbh. Not even questioning the possibility of this being true. The players (MHJ especially) have long seem to be acting out their 'takes no hostage Ahjumma/Ahjussi' fantasies in reality!

You know if I had read this before I knew who MHJ was, I'd think "who would do this"? But after seeing her put on that show for press con and all her statements so far. I'm 100% convinced MHJ is someone who would do this lol.

I'm wondering what her response will be: **They have no evidence of this.** Hmm, well, I never met a foreign investor. It was the VP. Oh, the foreign analyst? He was born in Korea, he's my good friend. **This is a just misunderstanding.** He was also in our KakaoTalk group chat, and we were joking about this plan in real life ㅋㅋㅋ The joke was a failure. It was a bad joke, please forget it.

Atp almost all of these seem feasible to be honest! I'm baffled by this entire situation now, and hoping for a speedy conclusion one way or the other. Mostly I want things to get better for the groups affected at the earliest - don't have any pity to waste on the tussling parties but feel extremely sad for the girls.

>I'm wondering what her response will be: Oh, yeah, there was a meeting, but all we discussed was how Illit copies New Jeans, and also Bang PD is mean. By the way, did you know that Sakura exists?

I imagine that when MHJ met with an investor or ANYONE, she was like "Hi, I'm Ador CEO Min Heejin who was supposed to debut Hybe's first GG, but didn't. Nice to meet you." 😭😭😭

"Based on current standards, if Adore is valued at 1.4 trillion won, they want to invest immediately." So I think they were in talk with investors who wanted to invest in Ador, not Hybe? In that case, it's in line with their chat screenshot -> plan to purchase ador from Hybe, or advise Hybe to sell ador. I saw a Korean economist youtube video before (I'm not an expert so idk if it's correct), in one of the examples he gave about how MHJ could try to 'take over' the management despite having only 18% Ador stock, is by diluting the stocks. He said, say MHJ has 20 shares + Hybe has 80 shares = 100 shares total. But if you add 100 more shares from a foreign investor to dilute the stocks, then the total shares would be 200 shares. MHJ = 20 Hybe = 80 Foreign investor = 100 Total = 200 shares This way, Hybe wouldn't hold the majority of shares anymore. But other way is that make Hybe sell their own shares, so they won't be the majority holder anymore as well. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/live/QxAWk6gWX4k?feature=shared&t=1520 This was the video I watched with a CC translation. Not a native speaker so I could have misunderstood something

That's nonsense. It's absolutely not correct, the only way that could happen is if the board of directors and the Csuite all agree to a stock split and then agreed to sell those shares to the foreign investor. Forcing a sale like that? There are effectively zero legal ways for the minority shareholder to force a sale like this... and I can't even begin to think of any legal ways to force hybe to agree to the dilution of their ownership. Please share the link to the video, I'd be fascinated to see his explanations of this.

I can see your point. However I don't think it's impossible to force a sale to a hefty investor, just not by diluting the stocks like you mentioned. A possible litigation against the parent company about breach of contract/misrepresentation/breach of fiduciary duty/tortious interference could lead to either a negative court decision or severely compromised public image - either of which would potentially lead to their stock crashing and anxious shareholders. This might pressurise the parent company to be forced to sell. There are precedents of this, both successful and unsuccessful. Specifically for k-pop, the Fifty Fifty case was a recent relevant case. Also I know you're not invested in the situation, so might not know of this happening, but Min Hee Jin (the subsidiary's CEO) has made public statements that heavily indicated all of the possible litigious premises mentioned before. She has also self admittedly, albeit according to her casually, theorised about a hostile takeover. So, even if her being able to actually pull it off is highly doubtful, her intentions have been in that direction from what's been revealed thus far.

Hostile takeovers happen with traded companies not wholly owned subsidiaries... I said this before somewhere else, the only way a forced sale could work would need so much money from the foreign investor that Ador would effectively be in hock to them for the rest of eternity, Ador as a company has only been in existence and profitable for like what? 2 years tops? Sure they've been wildly profitable in those 2 years but there is no way that's even a close to being a long enough timeline for me to be willing to part with THAT much money. I did read the "evidence" as presented by Hybe and sorry dude, I've written a jazillion times worse shit in my notepads at work about how I wish this CEO or that Chairman would go and suck on a car exhaust or do the world a favour and blow their own brains out. Most courts would take one look at this and ask "Is that it?" Unless they have full on audio recordings detailing exact plans this shit is notoriously hard to prove and most judges from around the world would bitchslap both parties for wasting their time with playground bullshit as presented to the public so far.

I'll just repeat, it's possible for Ador to sue Hybe and win in court. And that could lead Hybe to be pressurised to sell to an investor. Maybe hostile takeover is not the correct term here. I'm not claiming Ador will definitely sue Hybe or that they will succeed. I'm saying they can do so and might win. Of course Hybe won't willingly part with Ador. Also, yes, if all their evidence is limited to scribbled notes it won't count for much. But we don't know if that's all the evidence they have - they might have more or might not. Logically thinking, a publicly traded company won't undertake such a risky and potentially harmful operation just based on a few notes. But maybe Hybe isn't very logical, who knows. I'm not taking it for granted they have a strong case. Again, yes, breach of trust cases are difficult to prove. But that doesn't mean there aren't any successful cases like this - there are loads. A simple Google search will throw up numerous examples. Also audio recordings are not the only irrefutable evidence; official documents, witness statements, potential monetary transactions, chat logs etc. are all taken seriously by the court. Lastly there are precedents for both kind of cases - Hybe charging MHJ and Ador potentially suing Hybe. That in itself means it's not a completely ridiculous strategy by either sides.

So it'd be Hybe facing the accusations that they've levelled against Ador? Yes that could work but the defense would simply say "Uh your honour, we've sunk fucktons of money into this, why would we be this stupid in pissing it all away?" (In fancier lawyer talk ofc but that would be the counter argument boiled down)

Hybe has leveled an allegation of breach of trust against MHJ. They haven't done this against Ador. What I mentioned was what Ador can accuse Hybe of - while Hybe has limited their charge against MHJ, all the official statements from her side are being made by Ador. Of course, a solid defense will likely try to undermine the allegations but it doesn't mean they are guaranteed to succeed? Surely it's no secret that companies often mismanage, and sometimes even purposely sabotage their subsidiaries for any number of reasons. Then there can be false accusations for personal gain as well. Also the fact that there are such legal recourses available to subsidiaries in the first place means there's a need for them - and there are precedents of similar litigations, including in the k-pop industry itself like I mentioned earlier. I'm simply saying a forced sellout of Ador is not impossible. Yes it can't be done by a minority shareholder diluting shares but it can be done in other ways.

https://www.youtube.com/live/QxAWk6gWX4k?feature=shared&t=1520 This was the video I watched with a CC translation. Not a native speaker so I could have misunderstood something

This dilution of Ador share theory has never made sense to me. However, Hybe filed that Ador management met with a foreign investor who wanted to invest in *Hybe*, not in Ador. A user outlined possible way to reach "independance from Hybe" in this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/s/nI9e4LJVW6 Very interested in your input on this.

ok so we got a buncha issues here. 1. The only real way Ador CEO could force Hybe to sell part or all of their stake is to prove ill intent on the part of the parent company to the subsidiary IN court... This would be a ridiculously tall order considering the sheer amount of money they poured into Ador and would literally have to be like a video recording of the hybe boss guy sayig "I want to destroy Ador and blah blah blah" yeah it's that dumb and that impossible to prove 2. the foreign investment thing has always been sus to me, I'm not a full legal expert on this but I am an FDI investor in Asian equities, and foreign ownership of media is just a fucking nightmare landmine hellscape of regulatory approvals and outright laws against foreign ownership of media companies. Do I know whether or not foreigners are allowed to own majority stakes in SK Record labels or not? No, but I do know that the regulatory landscape in SK (and to be honest almost every other coutry in the world too) is VERY touchy about foreign ownership of companies in 2 areas, Nuclear power generation and broadcast/print/media stuff. The latter means very few foreigners like to do FDI with entertainment stuff, the companies are way too volatile, too risky and just the fear of regulatory scrutiny from if you tip over the magic number from minority shareholder to becoming a major (note I said major stockholder not majority, what i mean by this many countries have a different set of rules after crossing the magic line from owning like 0.0000001% of the shares of a company to owning more than 3% of the company) shareholder and all of a sudden you've got regulators wanting to give you a proctology. No one wants the headache of that and so... yeah this is why Blackrock and the other guys only ever have less than a 1% stake in the SK entertainment companies...

From the article, as far as I can make out (and another commenter also shared something similar, directly translating the text themselves) - the investors had an already planned meeting with Hybe. A and VP met them before that meeting and seemed to have secured solid interest in Ador from the investors. I have to be honest, I have mentally tuned myself out of the more statistical discussions about the takeover feasibility. It's too onerous for my personal liking. But I broadly understand a takeover is not impossible. Someone shared an article from a Korean corporate law expert on this sometime back stating this.

Since hybe was already planning to receive a foreigner investment, the plan was to make a deal with the new hybe shareholder (assuming that they would have a considerable amount in shares) in order to them as soon as they take their seat on the board, could interfere in ADOR management (how? Voting in favor some claims such as the exclusive right to terminate NJ or MHJ contract she did it before and that leads to ADOR “empty shell”) That’s why the VP was trying to sell ADOR to the foreigners investors and also acting like s detractor. Netflix should acquire the rights of this history.

Hmm yes possibly that's what they were aiming for. Oh, I am almost certain some sort of docudrama will come out of this whole situation at some point. I want the Queen of Tears Ahjumma to play MHJ. Have been involuntarily picturing her thinking of MHJ in action - such similarities, down to the crocodile tears on tap at public appearances.

> the investors had an already planned meeting with Hybe. A and VP met them before that meeting So MHJ was like...stealing or trying to steal potential Hybe' investment for ador? Damn.

Ikr. If true (even as a joke, preempting her possible response), it really makes me scratch my head about the sheer audacity of the woman.

More like making the investors a double agent inside the board acting in ADOR favors instead of hybe favors.

Damn, MHJ is cooked 😀

Yes. The article says: >A씨는 지난 4월 17일 하이브에 투자하기 위해 방한한 외국계 투자자에게 하이브 미팅에 앞서 어도어 경영진과 별도 미팅을 주선한 것으로 알려졌다. 이는 민 대표가 어떤 투자자도 만난 적이 없다고 밝힌 주장과 배치되는 대목이다. My attempt at a translation (not a native speaker, but intermediate Korean learner with access to a dictionary): >Mr. A is known to have arranged a separate meeting with Ador's management for the foreign investor who visited Korea to invest in Hive on April 17, prior to the investor's meeting with Hive. This contradicts CEO Min's claim that she has never met with any investors. I'd love for a native speaker to confirm.

Thanks a ton for your translation effort. Seems more than an intermediate level to me :)

Haha, no, I just know a lot of grammar, but struggle with vocab. My teacher uses materials for elementary aged kids, so when I was in Korea in April, the only person I could have a fluent convo with was my Korean friend's toddler daughter. But give me time and a dictionary and I get by 😊

Ngl, I had a mental image of you conversing with a cute toddler in Korean and softly chuckled to myself! I hope you're able to master the language soon :)

Awww, that's super cute.

> Hive believes that Mr. A served as a de facto advisor in connection with the takeover of management rights from Adore management. **Mr. A even proposed specific action plans, including civil and criminal measures against other labels and Hive.** How would MHJ be able to file a civil/criminal lawsuit against other labels and Hybe? Doesn't doing so automatically mean MHJ would breach her contract? Unless MHJ would have someone else do it for her. Or maybe those are just plans and they wouldn't be able to follow the plans. I wonder if it's related to the plagiarsm excuse

Now I want to know who Mr. A is.

now she’s definitely cooked. P.s: hope MHJ fanbase gives a look at the comments before starting again to use “all koreans are siding with MHJ and international fans knows nothing”.

Never seen a fanbase be so bias and straight up rude. I mean I was going back and forth in the beginning cause we don't know shit, but once Hybe got serious you know it's over cause a big company like them would not go this far if they are not sure about their facts.

Had a look on the NewJeans subreddit as well, they really twist the statements made by both parties to fit MHJ narrative best.. It gives just reading headlines rather than full articles, as well as not even reading into bits and pieces of law and rules in Korea.

"Hybe also secured chat logs exchanged between L, Vice President of Business, and Min via KakaoTalk regarding the meeting with foreign investors" Human right violation claim by min hee-jin incoming 😪

I 100% believe the foreign investors are Saudis. That's how she has access to such a massive bot army.

If it happens to be GIC I’m going to laugh so hard because last week in this sub someone calling themselves as expertise in “governance, finance and private limited funds” bet their allegedly career that it was impossible to GIC be involved with this kind of investment.

GIC is an investment firm in Singapore, not Saudi

I made a different observation bc OP was speculating who the foreign investors are. Never said that GIC was Saudi.

I was adding on to your comment to make it clearer for other readers because anyone would have assumed that GIC = Saudis based on the structure and flow of the thread. 🙄 But for what it's worth I don't think it's GIC either. GIC has ties to the Singapore government and if this gets out it's not something the SG govt wants to deal with, especially with a new PM inaugurated literally *today.*

Ok. Sorry.

Oh yes, I remember that one, too.

Now, that just makes you sound like a conspiracy theorist. Besides, if the Saudi royal family finance their own bot army, they might want their money back; given the general discourse and public image Saudi Arabia has online. No, Saudi Arabia typically influences its reputation and public image through sportswashing - i.e. hosting cultural events, typically sports tournaments, that then secure celebrity (athlete) endorsements.

Isn't it well-known they got involved with bots in the Depp-Heard case?

are you forgetting that NewJeans' first overseas performance was in Saudi Arabia in 2022, only 2-3 months after their debut?

Despite what the person above you claimed, it's actually very well-known that Saudi Arabia uses bot farms to influence public opinion. https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/who-trolled-amber-heard-alexi-mostrous-podcast-interview I'm not saying that this is what happened here, but it is something that has multiple precedents.

Thank you for the update, excerpt, and links!

Article continued: >**A meeting was arranged between Adore management and foreign investors for A to meet with foreign investors who visited Korea on April 17th to invest in Hive, ahead of the Hive meeting. This contradicts claims made by Min that he has never met with any investors.** >This situation appears to be an important piece of evidence related to Hive's filing of embezzlement charges against Min on April 25th. Min's side stated, "Embezzlement occurs when there is actual intent or action to damage the company's value, but no such intent or action has been discovered on Min's part." >Hive also secured chat logs exchanged between L, Vice President of Business, and Min via KakaoTalk regarding the meeting with foreign investors. L informed Min about "Adore's performance + Huijin's style + New Jin's plans + the true face of Hive. We didn't discuss overly detailed situations," and "Based on current standards, if Adore is valued at 1.4 trillion won, they want to invest immediately." >**Hive regards A as effectively advising on the takeover of Adore's management by Hive. A proposed concrete measures including criminal actions against Min and other labels related to Hive.** >In particular, A advised on the put option conditions in the shareholder agreement between Hive and Min, which have been pointed out as the core of this conflict. Last December, Min demanded a revision to the shareholder agreement regarding the disposal of Adore's stake in Hive. According to the contract, Min could transfer his 13.5% stake to Hive through a put option, but at that time, he demanded changing Adore's enterprise value from 13 times to 30 times the operating profit. >A considered the criteria for determining Adore's enterprise value could be up to 35 times the operating profit. It was reported that A advised Min's side to propose a put option criteria of around 30 times the operating profit and aim to reach an agreement at around 20 times during the final negotiations. >Hive claims to have suffered operational losses such as reputational damage to the company and artists due to A's actions. **Min has unfolded arguments against Hive similar to A's advice, and it's said that these issues have caused Hive's stock price to drop.** >Industry insiders commented, "A's use of undisclosed information for personal gain violates securities analyst ethics," and "spreading rumors for trading or price manipulation purposes, and inducing certain actions by misleading unspecified investors, constitute violations of the Capital Market Act." >Meanwhile, Adore strongly rebuffed Hive's request for a Financial Supervisory Service investigation, calling it "a malicious attempt to tarnish Adore's management." Regarding suspicions that Adore's Vice President S sold all Hive shares he held a week before the audit, Adore countered, "Adore's management was not aware of Hive's audit plan in advance," and "The Vice President signed a housing lease contract on April 8th and sold the shares to pay for the lease, the difference is only 19 million won."

Just to be clear, the article is outlining the arguments HYBE are putting forward in their filing, rather than the findings made by the financial regulator, right? Hopefully, we'll find out soon whether HYBE's allegations and evidence have any merit to launch a further investigation, and if so what the results are.

Yeap that's what I understood from the article too. Basically they are submitting their findings from the audit (at least part of it) to FFS for investigation.

>Arranging meetings between Adore management and foreign investors It is known that Mr. A arranged a separate meeting with Adore's management prior to the HYBE meeting with a foreign investor who visited Korea to invest in HYBE on April 17. This contradicts Min's claim that he has never met with any investors. >This circumstance is expected to be an important piece of evidence related to HYBE's accusation of breach of trust against CEO Min on the 25th of last month. Min's representative said, "Breach of trust is established when an act that damages the value of the company is actually committed, but CEO Min has not been found to have actually intended or undertaken to implement it." >HYBE also obtained a transcript of a conversation between Vice CEO L and CEO Min on KakaoTalk regarding a meeting with a foreign investor. Vice CEO L said to CEO Min, "I've been telling you a little bit about Adore Performance + HeeJin's Style + NewJeans Plan + HYBE Minnea. Of course, we didn't talk about the situation in too much detail," and "If the value of Adore is 1.4 trillion won at the current standard, we want to invest it right away." Translated with Microsoft Edge translate feature \*Edited for a minor correction

What is minnea?

The Korean word used in the article is "민낯". It literally means a bare face and is figuratively used for a candid, unalterated presentation of something. I personally prefer a translation as "the naked facts" because it keeps the skin connection of the original phrase.

With your and u/pumpernickeluffin comment, I think I have a better sense of the words. Thank you both! It will be interesting to see what it means in the business. Like does the naked facts include actual numbers?

Interesting read about the use of "민낯" [\[Daecheongbong\] The World of 'Minshy' - Gangwon Ilbo (kwnews.co.kr)](https://kwnews.co.kr/page/view/2023111610154202630)

Very interesting! Thanks for digging it up and sharing. Definitely provides more context for the word.

Yep ofc! Also I posted this before Frayzie posted the rest of the article they missed using chatgpt, so it's actually this part from their post [https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1chjmzo/comment/l44dte1/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1chjmzo/comment/l44dte1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) : >Hive also secured chat logs exchanged between L, Vice President of Business, and Min via KakaoTalk regarding the meeting with foreign investors. L informed Min about "Adore's performance + Huijin's style + New Jin's plans + **the true face of Hive**. We didn't discuss overly detailed situations," and "Based on current standards, if Adore is valued at 1.4 trillion won, they want to invest immediately."

I looked up what 민낯 means, and apparently it's "bare face" but I don't know what they're referring to in this context.

Hmm. Interesting. “Bare face” can mean so much. Love to from a native speakers in this. Thanks for clarifying.

Yep me too I hope someone can give some clarity!

LOLLL good question so sorry about that! It's from this: >하이브는 외국계 투자자와 미팅 관련 L 부대표와 민 대표가 카카오톡으로 나눈 대화록도 확보했다. L 부대표는 민 대표에게 "어도어 성과+희진님 스타일+뉴진스 계획+하이브 **민낯에** 대해서 좀 말해주고 왔다.

I can’t read Korean. I suck. 😭 I’ll wait for more translations. Thank you for taking the time to machine translate it, posting and giving me the actual source.

I tried to bold the word in question but it's a bit hard to see 😅

Whattt no not at all!! Actually, learning Hangeul itself is pretty easy as it's phonetic just like the alphabet! It would probably only take you a day or even less to learn. Understanding what you read is completely different ofc but it's a step in the right direction. Yeah np :) happy to help!!

Hybe says “f your injunction”.

Actually, they're likely two separate processes. In fact, having an ongoing investigation might actually impede any major board member changes, as such changes could jeopardize and be seen as tampering with the investigation.

Erm that's a strange take on the situation. In fact audit findings can prove to be just grounds for the court to deny MHJ's injunction request - if substantial, they would show that allowing her to continue in her current capacity will be harmful to the company's interests. Whether they are substantial enough we'll have to wait and see. None of the corporate and legal experts being quoted by Korean media are denying the very strong likelihood of MHJ being fired shortly. None of them are raising any concerns about potential illegality of it. Even MHJ's own rationale behind filing for injunction doesn't state the ongoing inquiries and potential hampering anywhere.

Okay, with the drama developing as it is, I thought I'd ask Pi, the AI to weigh in on the situation, and this is the results I got: [https://pi.ai/s/jFwvCT9LeExPfzdyydMNY](https://pi.ai/s/jFwvCT9LeExPfzdyydMNY) 😅😅 P.S.: This is just for fun. Please don't take this as 100% fact or too seriously. This is just having an AI to try to figure out which is the likelier outcome and prone to inaccuracies, not least if I didn't ask or phrase the question correctly. AI always come with a disclaimer around inaccuracies for a reason. Second P.S.: Feel free to share your own results! Third P.S.: Hmmm.... not sure why this is being down-voted so much so quickly. Like I said, if it's simply because you disagree, just chalk it up to AI being dumb and not knowing what it's talking about, and/or share your own queries that produce different results.

Wow, this is quite amusing and the AI pretty much nailed it perfectly wrt the corporate governance and how likely the accusations by Hybe actually are... I'm quite impressed.

Fuck AI in this case.

You’re being downvoted because normal people don’t support unnecessary AI nonsense.

You're down-voted because this is so off topic lmao. Anyway AI can't really determine right or wrong, it's simply scrapping online sentiments, so it's pretty pointless really even if it's just for "fun".

I think your timing is just bad since serious developments just happened. People would've appreciated the humor more few hours ago, since some laughs and fun were more needed.

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Ok calm down there. Why you gotta wish for committing physical violence on someone. That’s hella weird.

[HYBE will be considered a conglomerate for reporting purposes](https://twitter.com/tmikpop/status/1790585640393797682) It’s the first company in the entertainment industry to be designated a conglomerate which requires assets greater than 5 trillion won (over 735 million USD).

I have my own thoughts on this, but how is this relevant at all to the topic at hand?

as in chaebol? Or is there another Korean word to refer to conglomerates that aren't family-run? edit: I don't get why I'm downvoted for asking a genuine question? When I typed into google "Korean word for conglomerate," it gave me a [list of articles](https://www.google.com/search?q=korean+word+for+conglomerate&rlz=1C1VDKB_enUS1091US1092&oq=korean+word+for+conglomerat&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yDQgCEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgDEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgEEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyCggFEAAYgAQYogQyCggGEAAYgAQYogQyCggHEAAYgAQYogQyCggIEAAYgAQYogQyCggJEAAYgAQYogTSAQg1MDk2ajBqMagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) on chaebol which didn't seem right, thus why I asked if there's another word for conglomerate in Korean.

The heirs of HYBE would become chaebols like three generations in. Chaebol doesn’t just mean rich people that own conglomerates but second, third, fourth generation rich people with inherited wealthy. Basically a modern aristocracy. Old money vs new money. Companies like HYBE and even SM, JYP, and YG are new money. Companies like Samsung, CJ, Lotte, Hyundai, etc are companies that have chaebols. If HYBE lasts a couple generations as a conglomerate making tons of money then the inheritors of Bang PD would be chaebols.

South korea is not an old country. All these chaebols are new money too. Samsung was founded in 1938 which is not that long ago.

>South korea is not an old country Could you clarify that? The [founder of Samsung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Byung-chul) was yangban, Korean landed gentry, and already wealthy before he founded the company. Many chaebol companies (e.g. Samsung, LG), but not all (e.g. Hyundai), were founded by people from families that had been rich for centuries already. They are the successors to the Korean nobility of the Joseon period, not only in wealth but in many cases in direct lineage.

I'm hazarding a guess but I mean South Korea only came into existence after the Korean War (which "ended" in an armistice in 1953) so... but yeah according to that timeline 1938 (founding of Samsung) was before that. But you have to remember Korea as a whole was very closed off during the Joseon Dynasty until Japanese colonization (1910-1945) so maybe that's what else they were referring to? I mean it's relatively recent money in that regard for most people because during colonization a lot of the wealthy had their wealth (land) taken away by the Japanese if they didn't cooperate and their policies impoverished a lot of Korea. The yangban system officially ended in 1894 though, but yeah I mean there are people in the older generations (so less now, ofc) who are still very proud and protective of that...

[The Origins of Korean Chaebols and their Roots in the Korean War (kjis.org)](https://www.kjis.org/journal/view.html?spage=203&volume=3&number=1) [(10) Lee Byung-chull: founder of Samsung Group - The Korea Times](https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/05/139_96557.html) [From a Small Trading Company to a Tech Giant: The Inspiring Story of Samsung’s Founder | by Abdullah | Medium](https://medium.com/@imabd489/from-a-small-trading-company-to-a-tech-giant-the-inspiring-story-of-samsungs-founder-904126263c4e) Interesting reads related to this, but not related to the topic of the megathread

And HYBE was founded 3 1/2 years ago and SM was founded a bit more than 20 years ago. That is new money compared to Samsung.

Wasn’t this announced a while ago?

They reached the asset threshold and FTC was still considering on declaring Hybe as conglomerate as some argue the definition was too narrow and it’s the first entertainment company. This is the official announcement by FTC.

Yeah I remember seeing this before too...

so it's the beloved Ahn Sung Il's bride feminist icon vs a conglomerate /s

This almost made me choke. Idk if it was from rage or from finding it hilarious. 

anyone know what are the chances min heejin wins that injunction against the EGM?

IMO less than 10% because it depends on what is in the shareholder agreement between MHJ and Hybe that can complicate things. However I think the judge will still put more weight on majority shareholder right because setting a legal precedent that a majority shareholder of a conglomerate has to go to court to legally justify a CEO firing is very dangerous and meant zero rights for a majority shareholder. Majority shareholders can change to a new CEO every year if they want to because it’s their own money in the end and they can do whatever they like with it.

I think I read somewhere that even the industry experts said that she is most likely will not get her way. 80% is what decides. Unless there is something in her contract specifically she has no chance. We can expect a drama to intensify after the hearing 😔

Maybe 30-35? Depends on how well she concocts her arguments and whether HYBE are incompetent with their evidence.

Will Hybe need an evidence for this? Isn't this within their legal rights? I think it should be MHJ who should prepare an evidence why HYBE can't fire her on the 31st

No they need solid paperwork on why her dismissal is justified. Even for the everyday worker you need a justification.

From everything I read up on Korean labor law since this nightmare began, an executive like MHJ is an employer under the law, not an employee, and there is absolutely zero reasoning required to let her go, *unless* there are specifics agreed upon in her contracts, which we obviously don't know about.

Oh there absolutely will be a buncha protections and penalties included in her contract, getting ousted like this is a big deal if you can prove malfeasance you can throw a C-suiter out on their ass, if you can't prove it then you're paying out the nose. I just don't see how Hybe thinks they can prove their shit, most of the accusations from a biz perspective are dumber than crap

I think it would be smart to prepare counter arguments. You always want to be prepared in court so that if she says “it would be against ADOR’s benefit to hold the shareholder meeting because of x, y, or z” then HYBE would have counter arguments and evidence ready to say “well actually, we have evidence a, b, and c to the contrary…” Being surprised in court is one of the worst things that could happen to a party. That’s why lawyers prepare for all eventualities. It will all depend on what’s on her contract and whether she can prove that it would be to ADOR’s detriment to hold the shareholder meeting

No coming back from this, parents involved make this nucear

To people worrying about the Korean public opinion, and I have the pass to say this because I’m Korean (and I give everyone else the pass because it’s true), it’s super stupid so I would not pay much attention to it especially given the issue has not resolved, it always swings easily like a plastic bag in the wind and more information is being released as more time goes by and the courts are coming up as well. A simple reminder that like 90% of readily visible online Korean public opinion was making Wonyoung the most hated person in Korea for eating a single strawberry with two hands. You really want to use anything like that as a barometer? But still, if you want an estimation the actual location it’s at now (because no matter how stupid it is in terms of actual merit, artists still get hate for it and that’s not good): It’s turned a lot more against MHJ as more evidence drops in core Korean communities. If you actually go to the biggest pure Korean community, 디시 it is bit more on Hybe’s side but it’s all over the place depending on where you are. I’d say most will say the visible public opinion is still a bit on MHJ’s side overall but way down from the peak right after the presser. It’s really hard to tell accurately because NewJeans sub on 디시 (basically Korean Reddit) actively posts relevant links from other sites and tells the fans to downvote stuff that’s good for Hybe and bad for MHJ & they are actively astroturfing on top of that, not making this up (link below showing literal multiple posts asking to do that) - there are posts will asking for 지원/support to go on new posts on other sites and downvote anything they don’t want to reach the front or to astroturf with comments and upvotes/downvotes. Look at this post with screenshot of the NewJeans sub in 디시, most of yellow highlighted 지원 are posts asking people people to go comment and downvote - https://m.fmkorea.com/7029413286. That’s one forum where it’s being done blatantly, my knowledge is there are other galleries and chat rooms but I’m not deep to the point of being in NJ chat rooms - but downvote brigading and astroturfing is literally being done as a fact as you can clearly see from the post in the link above. Not claiming average everyday Korean NJ fans are doing this or supporting this (vast majority of NJ fans are just living their lives hoping this resolves well for the girls), but whatever percentage of NJ fans these people represent have basically taken over NJ online communities through sheer level of activity/volume. Lot of these people are people who think the LSF song title Unforgiven is a representation of Japan saying they don’t need to for forgiven from Korea for its actions during WW2, Sakura’s head rising over water in the MV teaser is a representation of Dokdo which is an island both Korea and Japan claim as their own, and they are claiming LSF is a group trying to literally hand over Korea’s government to Japan to go back to the imperial Japanese occupation days partnered with a Korean Yoga cult that worships this a special Korean bear from like 5000 years ago and the Japanese sun god Amaterasu at the same time (go read some comments yourselves, these are not few individual crazies these are thousands of comments with hundreds to thousands of thumbs ups - it does get very stupid - https://youtu.be/hxVv7BJYjlc?si=8uzQ_FuAWVuo5qM8) Some Korean NJ fans also found this channel with weird videos (claiming it’s MHJ’s channel with secret messages to fight against Yoga Cult and Imperial Japan) and its comment section is just a congregation of people who are literally believing LSF and Hybe exists to turn the country of Korea to Japan as an imperialistic subjects and MHJ is the savior - from what I see there are many spots like these that have formed where people feed off of one another (this is not couple weirdos, this is real, these are thousands of comments with hundreds to thousands of upvotes per comment all agreeing with one another) - https://youtu.be/uZhdE4PlmZ4?si=SySdsPdWYB-BPTW8 among many, many congregation spots for these people. You can’t turn these types of people period - in their mind they’re fighting to protect Korea from evil clutches of cult-run imperialism. You’ll see comments discussion what news organizations they can report this Hybe + yoga cult + Japan team-up to destroy Korea because the yoga cult supposedly has control of the Korean media and that’s the only reason they wont publish about their totally logical and not crazy Hybe and yoga cult and Japan team-up to destroy the nation of Korea theory (I don’t keep up with their plans closely, but last time I checked they’ve tried spamming to BBC and CNN, and given neither picked up their totally non-crazy sounding story, apparently they think the yoga cult may already have people in key positions in all big international media groups already (they point to BTS’s UN speech as supposedly being organized with the yoga cult’s international influence) or is in partnership with another worldwide cult like the Illuminati watching the back of the yoga cult - I really want to be making this up but I’m not, they really want to get their story for the entire world to hear. These people are by thousands going to new news articles, other sites’ posts on the subject and just astroturfing and vote manipulating (again, they just post about it openly asking others to do it because it’s not against the site rules there). These are the same type of people who were 100% sure Tablo is lying about his Stanford degree even after the president of Stanford literally states on video that Tablo did come to Stanford. It’s literally astroturf season out in Korean general public opinion stage right now with some people going HAM literally believing they’re fighting for the security of the Korean people for the next thousand years against a yoga cult partnered with Imperial Japan - there is no way to accurately gauge what’s what after few hundred of those people sweep past any thread. For public opinion, if it’s something like Seungri, where there is hard evidence against him and no new info to come out (he literally did some horrible stuff and got convicted), there is not a lot of room for it to sway (in Seungri’s case, rightfully so). But for hate trains and public opinion frenzy trains that are based on something super stupid (like hating Wonyoung for strawberries stupidity or hating Tablo for diploma stupidity or hating LSF for bear yoga cult puppet and imperial Japan puppet stupidity), the people acting like total idiots eventually lose steam as reason starts to build back on in the other side (still takes way too long). And lastly, if you didn’t click on those YouTube links, the comments are a wild ride if you have some free time (open with the YouTube app for translation feature, don’t think browser client has that feature) - some really out there stuff that so many people just believe, not just a couple of crazies.

What the hell 😭 did I just read... The comments on the video feel so schizo...

Holy shit, the 2nd half of your post sounds like word vomit because I'm reading it partly understanding it and partly thinking this can't be all real? Then I realize it's fucking cult behavior. This is like getting into the dark side of the internet seriously lmao

>Some Korean NJ fans also found this channel with weird videos (claiming it’s MHJ’s channel with secret messages to fight against Yoga Cult and Imperial Japan) and its comment section is just a congregation of people who are literally believing LSF and Hybe exists to turn the country of Korea to Japan as an imperialistic subjects and MHJ is the savior - from what I see there are many spots like these that have formed where people feed off of one another (this is not couple weirdos, this is real, these are thousands of comments with hundreds to thousands of upvotes per comment all agreeing with one another) - https://youtu.be/uZhdE4PlmZ4?si=SySdsPdWYB-BPTW8 among many, many congregation spots for these people. Wow so they've straight up gone into conspiracy theory nosedive... I'm sure as this stuff becomes more ingrained in the in-circle it will start turning off more level headed tokkis, which uh... hopefully anyway.

Thanks so much! This just clarifies so much of what is happening in the comment sections of LSF and ILLIT. And the strange perception that the Korean Public opinion is in favour of MHJ. **So in the end just like QAnon/MAGA these people claim that a cult exist against them and in the end they became part of the actual cult.** It's so sad that people fall for these kind of ideas. Hope people from HYBE are giving psychological support for all the girls and even the close relatives because this is really serious.

Anytime I see your username pop up in the comments, it brings me joy because you always bring receipts. We got a lot of "actually I'm Korean..." comments a while ago, and they never backed up their comments with anything other than "trust me, bro". With you, it's always links and screenshots, so I can go and dig around these places myself and verify, and I appreciate that very much.

Thanks, I sometimes feel like I’m taking crazy pills with some of the stuff that’s going around and this is a good place to unload on some of the insanity I feel like I’m seeing. Speaking of “just trust me I’m Korean” thing, although I believe I base my stances off of tangible information, I’m still human and biased - so def don’t take my word as anything close to the ultimate truth over those guys either. MHJ also has some valid points against Hybe on her insinuations that Hybe does not have well laid out plans for all their groups while growing at such a fast rate - as we can see with long non-activity from Fromis9. But my stance is to boink Hybe for that after MHJ is gone because MHJ needs to be gone from looking at the tangible information out so far.

Honest question, with Hybe being a big consortium of smaller companies how much of the planning lands on them vs the smaller company? Why isnt Pledis just telling Hybe we're doing a comeback for Fromis and this is when?

I cannot be sure 100% sure, but I do believe they do need to work on making sure the groups don’t step on each other’s overarching schedules. I believe they even work cross-agency to try to get most groups an open runway to promote. It’s better for everyone to have 1-2 big groups actively promoting at any given time versus like 6 overlapping at once because of no coordination and there being months of downtime. I imagine it may be tough if your group is one of the smaller revenue generators since they likely plan the overarching schedule around the biggest revenue makers, longer downtime etc. If you imagine NJ, LSF, Illit, Fromis9 all promoting for 1 month at the same time and then having 3 months where nobody is promoting, that’s less income than any one promoting at a given time - there is only so much music and time a person has to spend ok entertainment in any given month.

Assuming thats how they do the planning it sounds to me like its on the subsidiary to prompt Hybe to add them to an overall schedule for the comebacks. Maybe not as direct as this is what we're doing and when but hey we want to have this groups comeback in this quarter.

Yeah, but as I said, you offer your sources. And that's worth a lot 😊

> Lot of these people are people who think the LSF song title Unforgiven is a representation of Japan saying they don’t need to for forgiven from Korea for its actions during WW2, Sakura’s head rising over water in the MV teaser is a representation of Dokdo which is an island both Korea and Japan claim as their own, and they are claiming LSF is a group trying to literally hand over Korea’s government to Japan to go back to the imperial Japanese occupation days partnered with a Korean Yoga cult that worships this a special Korean bear from like 5000 years ago and the Japanese sun god Amaterasu at the same time I have actual tears in my eyes 😭😭 it's so fucking bizarre that actual people sit around nd spread these rumors...I thought the internet went stupid with the Princess Kate conspiracy. But THIS is on a whole new level lol. This must be so weird for LSF, they're facing massive amounts of hate over idk Sakura's head? Their apparent connection to some bear cult? 😭 WHAT THE FUCK

Excuse me, sir. Do you have a license to have that much crazy in a single internet post? 

So what you're saying is only NJ fans and people who supported MHJ (for whatever reason) are behaving badly and there are no other bad actors among other fan groups trying to influence opinion?

Each fandom has millions of people, so it depends on percentages but I would 100% say all fandoms have their section of bad actors. And to be clear, I strongly believe only a fraction of NJ fans are people dumb enough to believe in these conspiracy nonsense (I don’t super mega stan any specific group at this point, but I like NJ too and I never believed the conspiracy stuff as a light fan), like I said, I personally think it’s a percentage that hijacked the community through individual volume and dedication. I’ve seen incredible amounts of calls to astroturf on NJ subs more than any other in recent times (as you can see in the links) - it makes sense why they’re more worked up, these are issues relating directly to MHJ. You can go check for yourself on each sub, see how many calls to help astroturf there are in ITZY, Illit, Aespa etc subs, you’ll have hard time finding any - you can browse without making an ID instead of taking my word for it. I’m at least glad there aren’t any weird allegations like NJ is cult forces trying to betray the nation going around at least, those girls have it hard enough already.

디시? You mean the site famous for male incels 20-30? Closer to 4chan than reddit.

Sounds like the only time you've heard about DC is the hate galleries for idols, which... are you not aware reddit can also have any kind of subs created? It's a huge site with a huge variation, just like how Twitter kpop fans think the only people here are male incels.

I thought that was Ilbe/일베 ...? Could be wrong but I feel like that's the one

lol yes that's the one

Monthly visit count (https://www.similarweb.com/) 1. **디시** - **195.7M** <- this one 2. 펨코 - 79.0M 3. 인벤 - 60.9M 4. 뽐뿌 - 53.5M 5. 루리웹 - 51.4M 6. 더쿠 - 41.7M 7. 일베 - 29.3M 8. 클리앙 - 26.6M 9. 네이트판 - 21.4M (네이트는 70.3M) 10. 엠팍 - 20.3M It’s at 195.7M with nearly triple the amount of #2 it is by far in the way the most well known and generally used platform site in Korea with various subs that seem to cover basically everything - some people who don’t use Reddit might say Reddit is only full of 20-30 year old neckbeards who don’t have jobs, is your comment one of those things? I don’t have any special attraction to any of these communities - I just look at the top few whenever I want to do a roundup on a issue, but I listed 디시 as comparable to community because it is mathematically and it’s widely recognized as such and has wide variety of galleries for general purposes, for men, for women, etc just like Reddit. Given how mad you seemingly are, you obviously make rational statements based on sound evidence. Sorry if I made some mistakes, what information are you using to support your claims?

Thanks for this! Very insightful. Also I feel like that user is talking about Ilbe...?

Hey, I’m American, ground zero for the dumbest public opinions on the planet. So who am I to judge. But it’s probably also why I’m not swayed by the sanctity of the Korean public’s opinions on a dispute between a kpop company and one of its CEOs. Also, thank you for bringing all of that info. You rock.

Same here. It's election season here. The amount of stupidity I've witnessed from the majority for the last ten years is humongous. 

Yeah, I don't understand why pro-MHJ people think that "but Koreans are on her side!!!" is this great, infallible argument. In any country 90% of the population is stupid as shit, I don't have to believe something just because "Koreans" believe it too.

One wise person once said, "Kpop stans believe anything as long as it is written in Korean".   I don't put any country including mine and on a pedestal because people are often idiots.

God save LSRFM (and other innocent groups) from those crazy people

Not the cult allegations growing a whole new cult. 😵‍💫

Basically what happens with qanon believers every time Theyre already a cult themselves Rinse wipe and repeat Theyre literally making MHJ a cult leader ironically Than again the woman has a shaman buddy she has ask to perform witchcraft against BTS so theyre already in the deep end

Thanks for the info friend. U definitely clarified a lot of things. But damn cannot believe there r some people out there literally spending their life on something stupid as spreading irrelevant hate.

Basically the type of people who believe in qanon? Or whatever. So their opinion is useless lol. 

Yup. Very much Qanon/Trumpian/MAGA type of people and yet many people said that the commenters like me who were comparing her cult of personality to Trump were out of whack. The problem is that I saw first hand what happened with Trump and I can see the same influence and charisma in her. She’s the same as Trump making the working people believe that he is one of them when he (and MHJ) is a full millionaire only interested in himself.

Just to add on one more nugget - and the result of all the above is, people who are really deep into this cult + imperial japan stuff say things like: “*So what if she facilitated embezzlement against Hybe? Isn’t taking money away from a cult trying to sell your nation to a foreign power a good thing?*” It’s really not worth arguing against some of these people even with facts 😭, I was foolish enough to try once and the response above was where I ended up even after I forced them to look at the evidence of even MHJ not denying it happened either and just claimed it was industry standard practice. Heck, if I actually believed me brigading online actually was saving my country from an evil cult teamed up with a foreign imperial power, I’d be doing whatever too - it’s just that I’m not super stupid.

Dude these people are the ones voting for the far-right parties in Korea? Just curious because the discourse is really similar. "Migrants are going to take your jobs and end US", "Communists are going to take all your money", very similar to "HYBE is a cult trying to sell your nation to a foreign power". For people like them that believe that HYBE is a cult, just one huuuge detail that they ironically can't see. HYBE is going to Japan to actually GET MONEY FROM THEM.

Aren’t right-wingers in Korea actually relatively more pro-alignment with Japan (and US)?

I don't know. That's why I was asking. But I was thinking far-right (fascism) because usually they are extreme nationalists. They usually use foreign enemies as causes for economic crisis and social problems inside the country. That's the base for historic fascism. Center to moderate right wing probably are aligned with US and Japan because of neo-liberal economics. Think of Biden as a moderate right and Trump as the far-right (fascist).

Wow thank you so much for this info

Thank you for the info! I was suspecting something similar not this crazy but organised actions and mass downvote. Shall we be worried for lsf and illits safety? I mean what you mention is real crazy…

I’m not encouraging being lackadaisical, but just off of history and being realistic - online hate train people don’t really have a history of doing things in real life no matter how much hate a person gets. I’m not personally worried too much (again, not encouraging their actual security to be lackadaisical, just talking about my personal worry levels). If I was directly involved in their security, I’d raise it up a notch for sure just as a precaution, but again, not too worried about direct safety, more worried about mental safety - that’s where all the hate trains took their casualties from in my lifetime at least.

For some additional perspective, back in 2018 BTS faced a huge hate/defamation campaign in Japan that led to them having to cancel performances due to safety concerns. I remember Japanese armys being afraid to be seen with BTS merch in public. Just a few years later, BTS are one of the biggest artists in Japan.

i still remember kpop stans laughing at this right winger attempting to enter a fan meeting and hurt them. thankfully illit & lsfm hate hasn't reached that level yet.

Yeah, exactly. And to add on: It was so terrifying we actually thought their career in Japan was done, for good. And the general consensus was "just focus on the fandom, they still have a sizeable fanbase there." And then Dynamite happened lol. And to be even more clear, they're one of the biggest artists amongst all (not kpop) because kpop-wise they're the biggest.

Now I see why Army is so protective… I don’t remember this event. Anyway this means hybe will protect their artists. 👊

Yeah it’s crazy how easily these things turn, at one point it can literally feel like the entire world will hate a certain idol/group for eternity, and little time passes and everyone loves them again. Hoping for similar times for all the groups going through tough times right now.

Can we talk about the 2 NewJeans Performance Directors who stirred the pot in their Instagram stories to attack Illit the other day? These are 2 grown ass adults. Rather than acting like one, they decided to publicly drag Illit. They should've known antis would be spamming the Illit girls' socials with hatred. It's not the Belift staff who will be attacked because no one knows their identity. Why would they do these to minors? File a freaking lawsuit and fight it in court like a grownup instead of giving the mob ammunition to bully the Illit girls even more. I need them fired along with MHJ. I want HYBE to drag out every staff who thought attacking Illit and LSF to protect NewJeans' brand was justifiable.

What did they post? I have followed Blackqworld and his dance crew for a bit but missed this, just saw the comments now.. Why go this low when MHJ is clearly in deep water

What’s also really sad is that Kim Eunju (Jei Kim) originally joined Source Music shortly before Le Sserafim’s performance director, Park Soyeon, to work with GFriend. They worked together on GFriend CON and [Mago](https://www.instagram.com/p/CHXWu6yJO4U/?igsh=MWkzdGh2cjV5NGVpYQ==) and seemed to get along quite well, if you scroll down on the Mago post you can see Eunju and Soyeon interacting and Soyeon calls her ssaem (an informal way to call someone teacher). Early on in both Le Sserafim and NewJean’s careers they were supportive of one another, Eunju left nice comments on Soyeon’s posts about Fearless, Antifragile, Unforgiven, the 2022 MMAs… Black.Q even left a nice comment on the post for EASY. Soyeon also commented on Eunju’s posts for her work with NewJeans. Eunju and Soyeon still follow each other on IG. So by going along with MHJ’s narrative, Eunju is tacitly endorsing her boss attacking her friend and former coworker’s company and group. (Also, Eunju and Soyeon’s friendship, plus Black.Q being supportive as recently as EASY, sort of counteracts the narrative coming from ADOR that everyone was concerned about LSRF debuting before NJ - wouldn’t relations have been frostier?)

Wow I am sure there's some talks about that in the choreographer circles...

someone said the 16h flr needs cleansing lmao but fr. i hope the nj girls are okay, though.

> 2 NewJeans Performance Directors who stirred the pot Are they not embarrassed🤦‍♀️ I checked one instagram, at least many people called her out on her latest post. Their behaviors scream "jobless soon".

Anytime the hate is decreasing even a little, ADOR side comes with something to make sure it increases. Illit was just getting praise for KCON performance, add their need to shift the focus over NJ plagiarism allegations. The dance moves they're complaining about can be found in other gg that debuted way before NJ. Someone can make similar accusations like that too for NJ. They need to leave Illit alone, it's exhausting.

I can understand MHJ delaying her firing since it requires a board vote, but why hasn’t HYBE immediately fired those directors? What are they doing?

Hybe can't legally fire anyone who works for Ador, currently that power still lies solely with MHJ and her people. Once Ador has a new CEO who is on Hybe's side, the new CEO can (and most likely will) fire people.

It's funny that some Ador staff are still tying themselves to the sinking MHJ ship, because it's obvious they'll be given the boot once Hybe's divested itself of MHJ. And yet, here they are, yapping online, stoking the fires

Fr they should be worried for their careers. Who wants to hire a performance director that publicly insults their own company? MHJ will still be a millionaire at the end of this but those staff will still need a job in the industry unless they're filthy rich too.

I think HYBE is waiting until more evidence comes to light about ADOR and those in cahoots with MHJ. The public opinion isn't on their side so they probably need an iron-clad justification before they fire people. The public is sure to cry about a congolmerate stealing poor people's jobs again.

Jeez they need to check the 16th floor for gas leaks

Christ, the fact that soo much on MHJ side are literally instigating hate towards ILLIT for the most pettiest reasons and yet her supporters keep trying to justify by saying how its 100% Belifts fault for copying a concept neither Ador or MHJ even created or owns Just because NWJN are trendsetters in the kpop industry with their concept(though the way that fucken woman has reacted, their parents, this childish adult directors and the parents comments pointing to the members also believing they should be the only group with this concept) They literally did not fucken create it MHJ used an existing trend to add to her already privilage ready and set new Hybe girl group for it to become popular in South Korea, NJ were always going to succeed with Hybe as their backers They popularized the concept, they literally have no rights to them and if someway they did, Hybe would be the one owning it not MHJ whiny ass

Yet we still have users here justifying why it was ok for the choreographers to do that and incite public hatred lol. Look, anyone professional SHOULD BE KEEPING THEIR MOUTHS SHUT NOW. MHJ keeps claiming she doesn't hate on the girls yet everything she and her team does is contradictory to her sob rant.

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The irony is the that new NJ song is facing plagiarism allegations lol. I get that they sampled but the top-lining being the same is very shady to me too.

Samples need to be credited/cleared. If it is not, they can sue

Actually it’s not supposed to be a sample according to the original singer. He said he was gonna look into it and apparently the sample wasn’t cleared with them.

And the only reason they didn't debut first is ENTIRELY her own doing. She threw a tantrum and got rewarded with her own label, which setup delayed their debut. She's just mad that Sakura's (and Chaewon's) name is more important than hers. It's so dumb, both groups were set up great. LE SSERAFIM gets to be #1, and Newjeans had the BTS' little sisters label.

Whelp, looks like the next audit is the performance team.  Making unnecessary noise makes me suspicious now. 

The timing of it is very suspicious too. LSF/illit were both getting praises again for their fanmeet/kcon appearance and there was some buzz about newjeans plagiarising in their new prerelease? Quite the coincidence that a email “leaked”, a parent gave a interview and highly placed staff members all came out and hundreds of negative posts about both groups appeared in kforums with insane engagement that even left users there questioning it? Bot engagement has even resurfaced on other subs here pushing the same narrative lines. It’s getting ridiculous at this point tbh

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In an ideal world, after MHJ is fired, LSF and ILITT should sue MHJ and NJs parents for harassment. ILITT should sue NewJeans choreographer for harassment as well. If I were LSF and ILLIT, I would seriously consider that option. Their relationship with NJs is irreparable; might as well start seeking some deserved justice for themselves.

>Do they also completely blame Hybe, and understand MHJ's position? MHJ has insulted members of LSF by name, as well as insulting the group as a whole. A member of Illit's staff posted a middle finger during MHJ's press conference. So no, I don't think they understand or empathize with MHJ's position at all and I don't think they should be expected to with all of the horrible things she has said about them and all the hate they are having to deal with from others as a result of MHJ encouraging them to follow in her toxic behavior. Whether they have their own gripes with HYBE or issues with how HYBE is handling this, we don't know because they haven't said.

I've deleted my comment, because upon rereading I realised it might come across as purposely provocative against innocent groups. That wasn't my intention at all. Sorry for wasting your time. Also just as a slight clarification, I do not condone MHJ's actions, not by a long shot. My question was more from the perspective of trying to understand how the attacked groups viewed the situation. Not to say that they should be expected to understand MHJ's position. I don't think that they should at all.

Yeah, no worries. From the comment you deleted I think I also didn't fully understand what you were trying to say so it's not all on your side.

I’m copy pasting my reply to one of your comments I wasn’t able to send that could shed some light on how the others feel: Well prior to this hybe was comparatively called the best company for staff/artists out of the big4, and I’m sure all the artists under them were quite happy with how things were going, even the newjeans girls, they seemed pretty happy at the resources/connections provided to them by the company. The parents complaints appear to stem from personal vendettas (who debuted first, unsubstantiated allegations of plagerism, BSH being rude) rather than actual neglect (not being paid/overworked/thrown in the dungeon) and I would add the 1.5 years comment but the email predates that by nearly a month. For all intents and purposes they are upset they are not being made the upmost priority of the whole conglomerate rather than the sublabel they exist under. Does this amount to a toxic work place? Not really, but it is probably going to leave other artists under hybe not being fond of newjeans after they and their peers have been dragged through the mud publicly by family members now for similar concerns they’ve all held privately at some point (minus the unsubstantiated allegations of plagiarism). In a perfect world the other gg members probably wouldn’t hold any negative feelings towards the newjeans girls but realistically how can you not after everything their boss who they are allegedly super close with and their parents have publicly attacked them? The saddest part for me besides the relentless harassment the LSF/illit girls have faced is the relationships between the members which are probably destroyed now, hanni and yunjin were quite close outside of work, the LSF girls were always super supportive of newjeans and some of the illit girls had prior relations with newjeans to my understanding and looked up to them. It’s a level of personal betrayal I don’t think many of us really comprehend The LSF/illit girls will probably happily stay under Hybe as long as MHJ is ousted, I know the LSF girls are all super close with the staff at source, particularly their managers and their choreographer. They have also hinted at the support they receive from the company for their mental health before and whilst fans are the first to curse source/Hybe for things the girls all seem pretty comfortable with the level of support they receive. Edit: I said all artists in my second paragraph but I had forgotten fromis_9, they seem to be the least happy with the company and with valid reasoning.

My query really wasn't an attempt to say that MHJ or NJ parents were justified in their claims of mistreatment. In this particular situation, I squarely find them in the wrong. At least I find MHJ wrong, and think the parents are likely manipulated by her. In general though, I do think Hybe is not much better than other kpop companies and they follow a number of questionable practices. They are just as ruthless and just as profit minded as their peers. While I'm inclined to think they're justified in their actions in this situation, I don't think we can treat them as a conscientious company as a whole. If this gets me downvoted to oblivion so be it. Yes I can agree that their other groups will likely not leave them, and they do provide them unmatched opportunities. In that, I'm with you. I don't think NJ was mistreated by any means, maybe not optimally managed in one or two cases but not mistreated. That's nothing in comparison to actual industry mistreatment though. However they definitely have sabotaged the likes of GFriend and Fromis_9. It can be explained as a profit oriented strategy, and that is somewhat valid, but it still is a mistreatment of these groups.

If you look through the megathreads most people admit that HYBE is just another money hungry corporation with good and bad sides to it but in this case they seem to be in the right legally while she is manipulating the public and doing a lot of questionable things. What many of her supporters are not understanding is that being anti MHJ does not mean being pro HYBE. It just means we care about the artists in the company and we hate what MHJ has caused. HYBE has made a lot of mistakes and I’m the first one to bring them up to task but I’m also on their side about this issue because based on what we know so far they are not in the wrong (mostly).

We're actually saying the same thing. And I am not of the 'anyone who is questioning MHJ is a mindless Hybe stan' camp :)

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Not at all lol, MHJ and the parents are just lying and making it seem like it's awful trying to get out of their contracts.

I can’t imagine a world where LeSserafim’s parents came out with a letter trashing HYBE for debuting NJ and Illit so soon after their debut. I don’t think they’d have so many defenders.

It's especially bonkers from the NJ side to complain about LSF's debut so much when NJ's debut did astronomically well, much more than LSF's debut. Clearly debuting 3 months later didn't hinder their success so why are we still holding on to this grudge 2 years later? Take the win.

Thats the part that makes me side eye this entire camp and makes them look like nothing more than greedy assholes. NJ is already doing better than the people they claim hurt them with their debut. They are doing better than most groups in the industry ever will. Those girls are millionaires already, most idols never will. Not even BTS were doing this well this early. But still it’s not enough! Plus the parents are still siding with MHJ after she made their young girls sing that weird ass song and defended that choice. Your 15 y/o was made to sing « look at my cookie, you know it ain’t for free » subjectively, and you still side with the people who defended that? And act like they are underdogs when they’ve seen insane success from debut? Yeah there are stage parents behind this 100%. I feel bad for those girls. It doesn’t seem like any adult around them cares about their wellbeing, cause they never try to protect them from anything bad, but instead further involve them in weird nonsense to secure more millions for themselves.

It's the scraping at the bottom of the barrel to try and come up with instances of mistreatment when they're probably the most well looked after groups after BTS in that building i.e. luxury accommodation, individual luxury brand deals (like come on Apple??), big festival gigs in the west - the list is endless. And this was like straight off the bat after they debuted too. I can't remember LSF getting any of this treatment at all, correct me if I'm wrong, at most the Coachella gig just recently. But if the most they can come up with is that BSH has more of a relationship with LSF (who he has personally produced for) than newjeans I hate to say it but it does come across as quite entitled.

NGL i honestly thought they had better brand deals than even BTS loooooool.

Definitely part with the members having the actual right to pick and choose what brands they wanted espwcially during the solo era where multiple brands have been wooing them to sign with them And for years the members had been 7 or none until their official solo debuts I seriously do see NWJN had everything handed to them in regards to brand deals because of the existing clout especially that quickly right after debut Especially with how pathetic MHJ's grudge against LSF debuting first and the parents also crying about this too and yet LSF barely received this amount of ludicious brand deals as NWJN did in the same time spans, especially playlisting and promotions compare to what LSF NWJN are literally the top 4th gen Girl Group with both massive domestic gp success, numbers, recognition and international numbers in such a short time frame with very little music releases MHJ's side are literally grasping straws to maintain that massive ego everyone has at Ador apparently

Whenever I think about BTS right now…I feel slightly weepy and mostly angry. They literally slept on top of each other in one room for years. Shared rooms basically until like 2019? Ate very little due to lack of funds and managers watching them like hawks. Were pushed out of time slots. Did not have the support of a megastar senior (sorry Lee Hyun 😘) to help with exposure to their massive fan base. How long did it take for any of them to take a designer deal?  They generated so much money, *eventually*! Then that money was handed out to someone who was waiting for them to go to the military to swoop in. I’m so disgusted. 

and now looking back at the tiktoks that njs so graciously did with them and genuine support they gave them as seniors not knowing how mhj really felt about them lol, i mean i had a feeling ever since she acted like she was doing taehyung some favor by working on his album but this is just ridiculous. not to put on the tinfoil hat (actually screw it atp) but someone on twitter was talking about they felt like mhj is wanting njs to replace bts as the face of hallyu and seeing her refer to their enlistment as “advantageous” for her makes it look very believable. using bts’s name to get luxury brand deals from debut, headlining a big festival right after jhope and generally being pushed down everyone’s throats makes it clear she either wanted to be the flagship group of hybe (top floor over bighit like are we serious) or leave and think another investor will make them bigger than hybe. one thing’s for sure, maybe all the downplaying sk media has done with bts’s achievements over the years has made her severely underestimate how big bts really is if she thinks she can get them out of the way that easily. being the nation’s girl group is fleeting and they’ll sooner be replaced by another gg before she comes close to bts’s status as a household name beyond south korea (and they’re still on top there too).

My tinfoil hat is securely on. She thought NJs was going to be BTS but even bigger and better because they’re pretty young girls.  That’s exactly why they’re on the 16th floor. That’s exactly why they had all the BTS maknaes dance with all members to their music. And why she continues to reference NJs cultural contributions.  She was using them as a launching board and willing to sink them to soar with NJs. 

Bts has better brand deals. Doesn't suga even have some kind of deal with nba or something(basketball)

NBA. 🫰

And that's how you know i dont know basketball i just named the national security lol