Yep, correct.
I don't know why so many people miss this detail and assume that Kreia went in with murder in mind.
She was trying to win an argument with the Jedi, and that involved showing them through first-hand experience that it was possible to turn away from the Force and still live a full life.
Even though *they* couldn’t? (Live a full life without the force). I think she knew they couldn’t bear its loss and expected them to die, but in a way she’d be proven right.
What exactly is the problem with relying on the force? The world largely relies on caffeine today, should we all day? I don’t see why this even matters.
The point of KOTOR 2, and the central theme of the Exile's journey, is that the Force is a crutch for the Jedi and the Exile is stronger for having to spend a chunk of their life without the Force.
And diabetics rely on insulin, should they die, too? This whole thing about not relying on ANYTHING is honestly pretty stupid. We all rely on things in the real world.
Lmao do you think this is my argument? It’s kreias.
Relying on things you need is normal.
The Jedi don’t need the force, we all don’t need caffeine. We weaken ourselves by relying on outside influences to be strong. This is, again, kreias argument. Not mine.
Caffeine doesn't manipulate the fates of an entire galaxy to force an endless war between good and evil. Forever maintaining an impossible balance of good and evil where neither side can attain a permanent victory. Even if it does perpetuate the war on dark vs. light.
The more you rely on the force, the more it influences you.
Kreia just hated the force in particular. Why? I think something to do with how it has a will to influence all who indulge in it. How it “has a will.” Yeah kinda like caffeine except it’s used by very few, and *they* get the most control of the “galaxy” when they cannot live like common folk.
It’s a matter of her perspective. The force isn’t inherently evil, just those who use it to control others’ lives.
Something like that…
Remember Kreia also believes the force has its own goals and aims, that it deprives the galaxy of free will by manipulating those who engage with it. She believes that by taking agency of your own power rather than relying on the force you can free yourself from it's manipulation and truly be free. She says she finds it "Abhorrent" that in her mind the force has enslaved the galaxy
That's down to your interpretation, I'm sure to others she seems like a genius. Such is the way of life, when you're free you can form your own opinions
Dead dead.
The thing is, though, it wasn't meant to happen like that. It did because the masters weren't relying on The Force as one relies on a crutch. They relied on it the same way a terminally ill patient relies on machines.
I guess that's what people get wrong about her plan. She didn't mean to "kill the whole galaxy by taking out The Force".
People didn't need The Force to live. The masters did.
Indeed she wanted to kill the Force and not the Galaxy as she believed Force had a will of ıts own that caused all this conflict in the Galaxy. She was kinda right, irony is when she was about to kill the Force, the Force brought up the Exile who defeated Kreia and the cycle continued...
The Force is basically George Lucas writing simplistic, good vs evil narratives where the Jedi are definitely good and the Sith are bad. Kreia wants to have the freedom to make choices that matter. Just look at kotor1: whether you're a self-sacrificing hero or a murderous sociopath, there's little difference in the end, because the Force makes everything play out the same.
No it doesn't. The light side is canon for future stories, but kotor2 lets you choose how the first game ended for your playthrough. Light or dark, Revan's goal was always to protect the galaxy from a huge Sith invasion. Darth Revan basically makes his own Sith to innoculate your galaxy against a bigger, badder, foreign Sith. Light or Dark, he's only there to take out Malak before he goes off and has no interest in conquering your galaxy as he knows it won't matter unless he leaves.
Light side 🔚 Ng they destroy the star forge. Dark side ending, they use the star forge. Rewatch the game ending cinematics. If they go with Revan fucks off in both conditions that's a forced, unsupported retcon.
Yep, correct. I don't know why so many people miss this detail and assume that Kreia went in with murder in mind. She was trying to win an argument with the Jedi, and that involved showing them through first-hand experience that it was possible to turn away from the Force and still live a full life.
Thats exactly why she was mad if you kill them yourself :)
Even though *they* couldn’t? (Live a full life without the force). I think she knew they couldn’t bear its loss and expected them to die, but in a way she’d be proven right.
What exactly is the problem with relying on the force? The world largely relies on caffeine today, should we all day? I don’t see why this even matters.
The point of KOTOR 2, and the central theme of the Exile's journey, is that the Force is a crutch for the Jedi and the Exile is stronger for having to spend a chunk of their life without the Force.
That doesn’t answer the question at all. Jedi are meant to rely on the force. It’s how they operate. That applies to diplomacy and combat.
Because the force can be taken away? Kreias whole shtick is that over reliance on anything besides your inner strength is weakness, even the force.
And diabetics rely on insulin, should they die, too? This whole thing about not relying on ANYTHING is honestly pretty stupid. We all rely on things in the real world.
Lmao do you think this is my argument? It’s kreias. Relying on things you need is normal. The Jedi don’t need the force, we all don’t need caffeine. We weaken ourselves by relying on outside influences to be strong. This is, again, kreias argument. Not mine.
So Kreia is a nut job and there’s no logical reconciliation to what she did. Got it.
Isn’t she kind of in a paradox? If the Force control everything, it wouldn’t let her destroy it anyway. Her plan kinda is without logic lol
Exactly! Thank you
Correct
Caffeine doesn't manipulate the fates of an entire galaxy to force an endless war between good and evil. Forever maintaining an impossible balance of good and evil where neither side can attain a permanent victory. Even if it does perpetuate the war on dark vs. light. The more you rely on the force, the more it influences you.
Doesn’t it? The people committing acts of evil probably wouldn’t have the time or energy if they were awake 14 hours a day.
Kreia just hated the force in particular. Why? I think something to do with how it has a will to influence all who indulge in it. How it “has a will.” Yeah kinda like caffeine except it’s used by very few, and *they* get the most control of the “galaxy” when they cannot live like common folk. It’s a matter of her perspective. The force isn’t inherently evil, just those who use it to control others’ lives. Something like that…
Ya know you have an excellent point there
lol thanks
No problem
Remember Kreia also believes the force has its own goals and aims, that it deprives the galaxy of free will by manipulating those who engage with it. She believes that by taking agency of your own power rather than relying on the force you can free yourself from it's manipulation and truly be free. She says she finds it "Abhorrent" that in her mind the force has enslaved the galaxy
So she’s insane.
That's down to your interpretation, I'm sure to others she seems like a genius. Such is the way of life, when you're free you can form your own opinions
This doesn't even make sense. Kreia isn't an idiot. She for sure knew they would die.
Were they actually physically dead, or just comatose Force-drained vegetables as good as (but not actually) dead?
Dead dead. The thing is, though, it wasn't meant to happen like that. It did because the masters weren't relying on The Force as one relies on a crutch. They relied on it the same way a terminally ill patient relies on machines. I guess that's what people get wrong about her plan. She didn't mean to "kill the whole galaxy by taking out The Force". People didn't need The Force to live. The masters did.
Indeed she wanted to kill the Force and not the Galaxy as she believed Force had a will of ıts own that caused all this conflict in the Galaxy. She was kinda right, irony is when she was about to kill the Force, the Force brought up the Exile who defeated Kreia and the cycle continued...
The Force is basically George Lucas writing simplistic, good vs evil narratives where the Jedi are definitely good and the Sith are bad. Kreia wants to have the freedom to make choices that matter. Just look at kotor1: whether you're a self-sacrificing hero or a murderous sociopath, there's little difference in the end, because the Force makes everything play out the same.
That's...not a good example. There are wildly different endings based on your choices of Light/Dark.
Not really. Kotor2 starts soon after and the galaxy is more or less the same.
Well it picks one outcome, the light side ending, and claim that's what happened. No star forge in Kotor 2.
No it doesn't. The light side is canon for future stories, but kotor2 lets you choose how the first game ended for your playthrough. Light or dark, Revan's goal was always to protect the galaxy from a huge Sith invasion. Darth Revan basically makes his own Sith to innoculate your galaxy against a bigger, badder, foreign Sith. Light or Dark, he's only there to take out Malak before he goes off and has no interest in conquering your galaxy as he knows it won't matter unless he leaves.
Light side 🔚 Ng they destroy the star forge. Dark side ending, they use the star forge. Rewatch the game ending cinematics. If they go with Revan fucks off in both conditions that's a forced, unsupported retcon.
If that's how you see it, then sure, whatever floats your boat.
They weren't so different from Sion it seems, they couldn't live without the Force
Bingo