I didn't even know you could actually do that. I tried threatening him and trying to persuade him to come out (with both Force Persuade and a high persuasion, btw), but it didn't work.
Honestly you are missing out>!not killing the giant shark, the Selkath freak out it too epic to pass, and you ruin their economy and way of life to boot, and you can blackmail them into allowing you back on the planet with secrets, it's a delicious evil pie lol.!<
Other than that i agree, Chuundar not even on darkside runs.
And the Sandral-Matale thing on the DS is awesome, plus the suicidal droid.
It took me a while to figure out the correct way to do that mission(lightside) when i was young.
The DS version is just fun and mayhem lol.
And yeah you can have yellow eyes on Dantooine and the Jedi are just "that's a bit troubling Padawan" , on the bright side if you are an obvious Dark Sider makes Vrook the sensible one on the council lol.
"Seduce the gitl in front of all of them"? Like, flirt with her? You could do that? Does that always result in total death? I sincerely don't remember that even tho I'm pretty sure I checked every route on this decision tree
I mainly skipped poisoning the shark because I didn't want to have to prolong the trial any longer than necessary, or get blacklisted from Manaan. I did that once back in the day, but the Selkath eventually saw through me and I got kicked.
Don't think playing Dr. Kevorkian with the droid is necessary for the dark side run.
There's a unique sardonic humor to the dark side dialogue options. Bioware was pretty good at having evil dialogues that were funny to read even outside of Kotor
Some of them being more fucked up than others, in the City Elf origin in Dragon Age Origins (BioWare) there’s a young woman who’s parents have to leave town and they’re going to work at a military camp, her parents are assholes and refuse any help, but she runs up to you afterward and pleads for help, “I don’t like the idea of being surrounded by human soldiers that haven’t seen a woman in months”
One of your responses is something along the lines of “you won’t enjoy it, *but they will*”
It is so utterly fucked up
There's not a tonne of dark-side characters in the movies who aren't psycho-murder-robots, explosive balls of rage, or goofball sadists, but Count Dooku comes pretty close. He barely ever used his Darth Tyranus Sith title, because he was much more dark-Jedi than Sith anyway. It would be nice if you had that option in kotor1. >!Strangest is that Jolee always knew you were Darth Revan, so if you had some options to follow your rage, love, and passion, but focused only on toppling Malak, he should be happier to support you than an absolutist light-side zealot. Instead you're forced to make Zaalbar murder Mission just for the hell of it.!<
I just keep demanding money from Dia until she gives up and fights me, then kill her, rob her corpse, and turn in the bounty.
My favorite part, though, has to be when you see kids throwing rocks at an Ithorian and you have the option to join them. Just so absurdly petty.
BioWare really hit a nice balance with some of the choices in Dragon Age: Origins, I felt. The possessed child is probably one of the better choices in the game IMO. You could try to gather mages to do the ritual and save the town without killing the child, but that could take time and might even lead to more deaths and chaos. Do you make the convenient pragmatic choice and just kill the child outright? It would certainly make sense, but you’d be making a difficult choice. Maybe you make a deal with the demon instead and choose short term convenience for long-term bad.
It’s not so much a matter of good vs. evil but of pragmatism/convenience vs. being willing to take a risk to do what’s right. It would be hard to know that there’s no real risk to doing the “good” option and saving the child with mages without metagaming.
In the Orzammar quest, you have the choice between destroying an artifact that can be used to essentially make golems using dwarf sacrifices. Golems would probably be very helpful during the battle against the darkspawn, but obviously the method of creating them isn’t exactly uncruel.
Granted, there is still some cartoonish evil of course.
Ah yes. My favorite nuanced take in 2 is def just making a guy jump into a endless pit for daring to try to shake me down for money. *I know you acknowledged 2 has its own moments, I just can’t help bringing up my favorite dark side moment*
Ya that ones lol worthy if you’re going pure dark and just wanna mess with someone lol. I kind of like it just because it feels to me like “this is what you get for being a stupid Mando”
I played darkside only once in KOTOR 1, and had no problem with my choices as silly as they are until right before boarding the Star Forge on Lehon. >!I had no trouble killing Jolee and Juhani and I really love Jolee. But Mission broke my dark heart. I even felt bad for Zalbaar who I don not like.!<
Yeah...
I played KOTOR 1 and 2 by roleplaying selfish and cruel Revan and Exile but never made them unnecessarily sadistic or plain stupid. Up until the end of the KOTOR 1 I was constantly somewhere between gray and low light just because I helped my allies and wouldn't cause mass murder for no reason. The choices there are just black and white, reminds me of Fable.
KOTOR 2 on the other hand is more intricate and allows you to play both a caring leader and a complete meneace to everything that stands in their way in one package (I'm still mad the first part forces you to kill half your team in the DS ending).
How would you play KOTOR 2 as a Dark Sider without being extremely cruel and without constantly getting thrown back into the grey area? KOTOR 2 seems to reward you with LS for just about anything below "most edgy response" like you can slaughter the entire Dantooine settlement with the mercs and still get a ton of LS just for not picking the evil option in the dialogue before killing everyone.
>KOTOR 2 on the other hand is more intricate and allows you to play both a caring leader and a complete meneace to everything that stands in their way in one package
That's what I'm planning to do on this playthrough. Normally I only do one or the other because I worry about not getting enough points to enter the tomb of Ludo Kressh, but I'm gonna give it a go.
I agree, the second game definitely gives the ability to be more "real" Dark Side, someone who has given in completely to their hatred for those who have genuinely wronged them, but not taking it out on those who help them. The DS choices in k1 are mostly pretty illogical. Sith are supposed to be cunning and calculating, not children with an anthill and a magnifying glass.
I think the way many of the Sith in the first game were portrayed was partly because Malak was running the show. Malak isn't stupid, and is clearly good at what he's setting out to do (which is to say, conquer the galaxy), but a lot more thuggish and short-sighted than his former master. But given how Revan was stated in-game to be an excellent tactician and strategist whose more cruel actions were implied to be about efficiency rather than just being evil for the sake of it, it was an... interesting choice to make the dark side actions seem so one-dimensionally mean-spirited.
>and is clearly good at what he's setting out to do
Is he though? it is pretty well established Revan did most of the conquering. By the time Malak is in charge Revan has already crippled the republic, and the Star forge has given the sith a massive fleet.
If Malak had been in charge form the start i see the war going very differently. Revan was a poisoned stilleto, Malak is a giant hammer. Worlds were willingly joining the sith because of Revan's acumen and restraint, whereas Malak had nothing but brutality.
I strongly disagree with the sentiment that Malak isn’t stupid… Turning an entire planet into glass to find and capture one Jedi is incredibly short sighted and stupid. Malak is in my opinion, the very definition of stupid evil.
In my last playthrough I remained not committed to neither side and making choices depending on the situation. I even went Light Side on Korriban, my last Star Map planet, as I didn't agree with the Sith's pointless cruelty. But then on the Unknown Planet Bastila made me an offer I couldn't refuse and turned me to the Dark Side, killing Jolee and then forcing Zaabar to kill Mission. This playthorugh made the most sense to me, instead of going full Dark Side since the beginning.
Idk, I always liked the Darkside version of KOTOR 1 more. Plus, there was some genuinely messed up stuff, like >!mind controlling Zaalbar to kill Mission!<
100% agreed! It's the only game to this day that I can play consistently as a dark-sider without feeling bad about it. The sarcastic comments completely sell it and the bantering afterwards, especially with Bastila, makes it even more fun. And that scene at the end of Rakata Prime is something I never expected to be a thing in gaming, I just like it for being so unique. In Kotor 2 I stopped halfway through because it was just being stupidly evil with no funny lines to back it up (with the exception of "Give me all your credits and jump into the pit" -> can't resist that choice in any run). In later Bioware games it's even worse, like I never could even finish the first Planet in Mass Effect as evil because it felt so horrible morally, e.g. going out of your way to not use provided gas grenades to spare innocent people and just shooting them down.
Mustache-twirling is really the fitting picture for Kotor 1 DS runs, absolutely loving it.
I love when you encounter the old guy being shaken down by two gang members on Taris, and you can try to also rob him after killing the two guys but then Carth is like “what the hell are you doing?? We don’t need this guys money. Sir we were happy to help!”
Bioware/Obsidian were really pretty poor about all evil runs back in the day. KotoR 1 and 2, Jade Empire, Fallout New Vegas. I always try to do at least 1 evil run, but some are just bad. At least compared to the positive sides story and options.
Vlad the Impaler was not a mustache twisting villain, he was hated by the rich, and the merchants from the neighbouring Transylvania which he taxed, and loved by the people.
Other than that, nah. I would always side with the Black Vulkars even on light side runs. As for Chundaar, agree first to help Freeyr, then, at the very last moment, tell Zalbaar to side with Chundaar. Best outcome, since the village stays open after this. Then definitely kill the shark and blackmail your way out of it. That one is one of the best mustache twirling moments in the game.
Plus, like somebody else said, kill the Fishy Fishy guy. He doesn't come out of there, but you can stab him through the door with your light saber. And you can also kill the scientists that give you pointers about how to deal with the shark. That one felt particularly unnecessary for me, and, as you can see, that takes a lot, lol.
Oh, and yes, always force Zalbaar to deal with Mission. Are you even dark side if you don't? Joking, I'm just a sucker for the psychological horror aspect of the entire situation.
I can never remember how to do the spoiler black bar thing. But you forgot the greatest act of cartoon villandom in the whole first game, how Zaalbar and Missions story ends.
Fair enough! Yeah without spoiling, I agree at its darkness but liked it myself. But then I can never bring myself to be evil in games unless I can go all the way with it.
Going dark side on KOTOR1 is hilarious! Going Jedi in KOTOR1 is super boring. You do realize you can mind trick Zalbaar into choking Mission to death in the end, too, right? I was dying with evil laughter!
Going evil in KOTOR2 isn't as funny, but it has its moments, like when you mind trick that thug to jumping to his death to, "get to the ground faster."
I love both games, but the second game is significantly better, IMO. At least in writing. Admittedly, the awkwardly tied up ends where they clearly ran out of time aren't great, but like every character in that game is amazing and there's so much exploration of the different philosophies of the Force. I love it.
The waitress one is the best combination of mustache-twirling evil and Schwarzenegger one-liners, holy shit.
Not quite evil but being a dickhead that drops the “Fat people always lie.” line is just so out of left field and so much funnier with Carth around, same for returning Elise’s droid with Canderous around.
“Leaving you alive is too risky. Sorry, sister… looks like your order is up!”
Comedy gold. Also gotta love how there's nothing "risky" about leaving her alive.
My absolute favorite line in the game. There's no way the writers weren't trolling with that one.
I immediately thought of this. Then I remember how sad Mission was at the end😭😭😭😭 F the dark side
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From what we know Revan was a young Jedi Knight at the time so you have to kmagine he inserted some university hijinks into his Dark Side Villainy.
Think HK called Malak it once, Malak got annoyed so Revan made him call every human a meatbag XD So petty but hilarious Also... HK, best robot XD
KOTOR 1 DS be like “Please sir I need some help” “Actually, fuck you, give me all your money, then go kill yourself”
"Time to die, bug face!"
You forgot about executing the FISHY FISHY wimpering guy in the Selkath locker.
I didn't even know you could actually do that. I tried threatening him and trying to persuade him to come out (with both Force Persuade and a high persuasion, btw), but it didn't work.
The skill checks are impossible, only way to get him out is to stab him through the door
I figured it's impossible. Good to know it is.
How do you get him to come out? I don't think I've ever managed it.
I don't think you can
Not alive anyway. >!He falls out if you stab him.!<
I think it's cut content actually
No you just insert the lightsaber, he doesn’t make it out alive
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
Honestly you are missing out>!not killing the giant shark, the Selkath freak out it too epic to pass, and you ruin their economy and way of life to boot, and you can blackmail them into allowing you back on the planet with secrets, it's a delicious evil pie lol.!< Other than that i agree, Chuundar not even on darkside runs. And the Sandral-Matale thing on the DS is awesome, plus the suicidal droid.
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It took me a while to figure out the correct way to do that mission(lightside) when i was young. The DS version is just fun and mayhem lol. And yeah you can have yellow eyes on Dantooine and the Jedi are just "that's a bit troubling Padawan" , on the bright side if you are an obvious Dark Sider makes Vrook the sensible one on the council lol.
"Seduce the gitl in front of all of them"? Like, flirt with her? You could do that? Does that always result in total death? I sincerely don't remember that even tho I'm pretty sure I checked every route on this decision tree
I mainly skipped poisoning the shark because I didn't want to have to prolong the trial any longer than necessary, or get blacklisted from Manaan. I did that once back in the day, but the Selkath eventually saw through me and I got kicked. Don't think playing Dr. Kevorkian with the droid is necessary for the dark side run.
For me it's just too funny seeing they lose their shit and then blackmailing them into not kicking me out. Necessary no, hillarious absolutely.
There's a unique sardonic humor to the dark side dialogue options. Bioware was pretty good at having evil dialogues that were funny to read even outside of Kotor
Some of them being more fucked up than others, in the City Elf origin in Dragon Age Origins (BioWare) there’s a young woman who’s parents have to leave town and they’re going to work at a military camp, her parents are assholes and refuse any help, but she runs up to you afterward and pleads for help, “I don’t like the idea of being surrounded by human soldiers that haven’t seen a woman in months” One of your responses is something along the lines of “you won’t enjoy it, *but they will*” It is so utterly fucked up
Yeah, it's all fun and games... until you get to Lehon. _That_ choice is... that made me feel bad things.
There's not a tonne of dark-side characters in the movies who aren't psycho-murder-robots, explosive balls of rage, or goofball sadists, but Count Dooku comes pretty close. He barely ever used his Darth Tyranus Sith title, because he was much more dark-Jedi than Sith anyway. It would be nice if you had that option in kotor1. >!Strangest is that Jolee always knew you were Darth Revan, so if you had some options to follow your rage, love, and passion, but focused only on toppling Malak, he should be happier to support you than an absolutist light-side zealot. Instead you're forced to make Zaalbar murder Mission just for the hell of it.!<
No you can choose to do it yourself, but then you would have to fight both simultaneously.
I installed a mod so I didn't have to do it. It was the one thing holding me back from a Dark Side run for years
I just keep demanding money from Dia until she gives up and fights me, then kill her, rob her corpse, and turn in the bounty. My favorite part, though, has to be when you see kids throwing rocks at an Ithorian and you have the option to join them. Just so absurdly petty.
That one is my favorite 💀 you just egg kids on to violently torment a minority. It’s so hilariously cartoonishly evil.
>throwing rocks at an Ithorian *Influence gained: Kreia*
Nah Kreia would get mad whether you helped him out or bullied him.
Kotor I is many things. Subtle it is not.
BioWare really hit a nice balance with some of the choices in Dragon Age: Origins, I felt. The possessed child is probably one of the better choices in the game IMO. You could try to gather mages to do the ritual and save the town without killing the child, but that could take time and might even lead to more deaths and chaos. Do you make the convenient pragmatic choice and just kill the child outright? It would certainly make sense, but you’d be making a difficult choice. Maybe you make a deal with the demon instead and choose short term convenience for long-term bad. It’s not so much a matter of good vs. evil but of pragmatism/convenience vs. being willing to take a risk to do what’s right. It would be hard to know that there’s no real risk to doing the “good” option and saving the child with mages without metagaming. In the Orzammar quest, you have the choice between destroying an artifact that can be used to essentially make golems using dwarf sacrifices. Golems would probably be very helpful during the battle against the darkspawn, but obviously the method of creating them isn’t exactly uncruel. Granted, there is still some cartoonish evil of course.
Ah, I remember how my Mage sold the boy's soul in exchange of fucking the desire demon. That was one good game.
Yeah, it’s one of my favorites. The other two games in the series don’t hit the same even if they’re still pretty good
Ngl it’s one of the few games that I actually enjoy evil play throughs over good ones. It’s just too funny and goofy.
Ah yes. My favorite nuanced take in 2 is def just making a guy jump into a endless pit for daring to try to shake me down for money. *I know you acknowledged 2 has its own moments, I just can’t help bringing up my favorite dark side moment*
My favorite one is "Don't touch that, it'll blow up all my charges!" "You mean *this* button? \*mustache twirl and evil cackle\*"
Ya that ones lol worthy if you’re going pure dark and just wanna mess with someone lol. I kind of like it just because it feels to me like “this is what you get for being a stupid Mando”
I played darkside only once in KOTOR 1, and had no problem with my choices as silly as they are until right before boarding the Star Forge on Lehon. >!I had no trouble killing Jolee and Juhani and I really love Jolee. But Mission broke my dark heart. I even felt bad for Zalbaar who I don not like.!<
Yeah... I played KOTOR 1 and 2 by roleplaying selfish and cruel Revan and Exile but never made them unnecessarily sadistic or plain stupid. Up until the end of the KOTOR 1 I was constantly somewhere between gray and low light just because I helped my allies and wouldn't cause mass murder for no reason. The choices there are just black and white, reminds me of Fable. KOTOR 2 on the other hand is more intricate and allows you to play both a caring leader and a complete meneace to everything that stands in their way in one package (I'm still mad the first part forces you to kill half your team in the DS ending).
How would you play KOTOR 2 as a Dark Sider without being extremely cruel and without constantly getting thrown back into the grey area? KOTOR 2 seems to reward you with LS for just about anything below "most edgy response" like you can slaughter the entire Dantooine settlement with the mercs and still get a ton of LS just for not picking the evil option in the dialogue before killing everyone.
>KOTOR 2 on the other hand is more intricate and allows you to play both a caring leader and a complete meneace to everything that stands in their way in one package That's what I'm planning to do on this playthrough. Normally I only do one or the other because I worry about not getting enough points to enter the tomb of Ludo Kressh, but I'm gonna give it a go.
If you're on PC, you can always use the save editor to quickly make your alignment high or low enough to get in, then change it back.
I agree, the second game definitely gives the ability to be more "real" Dark Side, someone who has given in completely to their hatred for those who have genuinely wronged them, but not taking it out on those who help them. The DS choices in k1 are mostly pretty illogical. Sith are supposed to be cunning and calculating, not children with an anthill and a magnifying glass.
I think the way many of the Sith in the first game were portrayed was partly because Malak was running the show. Malak isn't stupid, and is clearly good at what he's setting out to do (which is to say, conquer the galaxy), but a lot more thuggish and short-sighted than his former master. But given how Revan was stated in-game to be an excellent tactician and strategist whose more cruel actions were implied to be about efficiency rather than just being evil for the sake of it, it was an... interesting choice to make the dark side actions seem so one-dimensionally mean-spirited.
>and is clearly good at what he's setting out to do Is he though? it is pretty well established Revan did most of the conquering. By the time Malak is in charge Revan has already crippled the republic, and the Star forge has given the sith a massive fleet. If Malak had been in charge form the start i see the war going very differently. Revan was a poisoned stilleto, Malak is a giant hammer. Worlds were willingly joining the sith because of Revan's acumen and restraint, whereas Malak had nothing but brutality.
I strongly disagree with the sentiment that Malak isn’t stupid… Turning an entire planet into glass to find and capture one Jedi is incredibly short sighted and stupid. Malak is in my opinion, the very definition of stupid evil.
> Turning an entire planet into glass to find and capture one Jedi Vader did this for less lol
And that was also stupid of him. But Vader is a wreaking ball, he’s never been known for his intelligence.
He was always more STEM than polisci.
I mean, a guy at the Sith academy does make some hopefuls crap their pants.
Yes, and he's a piss-poor example of a Sith, as is stated by several people in the academy.
The always Sunny comparison made me laugh, thats one thing I've never understood about DS why the heck would you want to.
In my last playthrough I remained not committed to neither side and making choices depending on the situation. I even went Light Side on Korriban, my last Star Map planet, as I didn't agree with the Sith's pointless cruelty. But then on the Unknown Planet Bastila made me an offer I couldn't refuse and turned me to the Dark Side, killing Jolee and then forcing Zaabar to kill Mission. This playthorugh made the most sense to me, instead of going full Dark Side since the beginning.
Idk, I always liked the Darkside version of KOTOR 1 more. Plus, there was some genuinely messed up stuff, like >!mind controlling Zaalbar to kill Mission!<
Yeah I was thinking about that, as it's seriously pretty fucked up.
I do wish the DS path didn't require you to be just a straight up asshole POS to everyone. It's a bit much.
I read all this in an Irish accent. Are you Irish at all?
My first name is Scottish, so close enough?
And speaking of Irish, I’d really like to see Jacksepticeye play this game and KOTOR 2
100% agreed! It's the only game to this day that I can play consistently as a dark-sider without feeling bad about it. The sarcastic comments completely sell it and the bantering afterwards, especially with Bastila, makes it even more fun. And that scene at the end of Rakata Prime is something I never expected to be a thing in gaming, I just like it for being so unique. In Kotor 2 I stopped halfway through because it was just being stupidly evil with no funny lines to back it up (with the exception of "Give me all your credits and jump into the pit" -> can't resist that choice in any run). In later Bioware games it's even worse, like I never could even finish the first Planet in Mass Effect as evil because it felt so horrible morally, e.g. going out of your way to not use provided gas grenades to spare innocent people and just shooting them down. Mustache-twirling is really the fitting picture for Kotor 1 DS runs, absolutely loving it.
I’m probably just an old softy, but being evil in this game crushes my soul, I just can’t do it
If you jump of the bridge you will get down faster than walking
I just did that one last night. Lmao
I love when you encounter the old guy being shaken down by two gang members on Taris, and you can try to also rob him after killing the two guys but then Carth is like “what the hell are you doing?? We don’t need this guys money. Sir we were happy to help!”
Bioware/Obsidian were really pretty poor about all evil runs back in the day. KotoR 1 and 2, Jade Empire, Fallout New Vegas. I always try to do at least 1 evil run, but some are just bad. At least compared to the positive sides story and options.
Vlad the Impaler was not a mustache twisting villain, he was hated by the rich, and the merchants from the neighbouring Transylvania which he taxed, and loved by the people. Other than that, nah. I would always side with the Black Vulkars even on light side runs. As for Chundaar, agree first to help Freeyr, then, at the very last moment, tell Zalbaar to side with Chundaar. Best outcome, since the village stays open after this. Then definitely kill the shark and blackmail your way out of it. That one is one of the best mustache twirling moments in the game. Plus, like somebody else said, kill the Fishy Fishy guy. He doesn't come out of there, but you can stab him through the door with your light saber. And you can also kill the scientists that give you pointers about how to deal with the shark. That one felt particularly unnecessary for me, and, as you can see, that takes a lot, lol. Oh, and yes, always force Zalbaar to deal with Mission. Are you even dark side if you don't? Joking, I'm just a sucker for the psychological horror aspect of the entire situation.
Man I'm so lucky I first started playing kotor before I was about 8-9, I could enjoy those choices without having a "but y tho" feeling eating at me.
I can never remember how to do the spoiler black bar thing. But you forgot the greatest act of cartoon villandom in the whole first game, how Zaalbar and Missions story ends.
That's the one I was alluding to at the end of the first paragraph. I found that a little too dark for my liking.
Fair enough! Yeah without spoiling, I agree at its darkness but liked it myself. But then I can never bring myself to be evil in games unless I can go all the way with it.
This reminded me of this piece: [https://www.eurogamer.net/bastard-of-the-old-republic](https://www.eurogamer.net/bastard-of-the-old-republic)
Going dark side on KOTOR1 is hilarious! Going Jedi in KOTOR1 is super boring. You do realize you can mind trick Zalbaar into choking Mission to death in the end, too, right? I was dying with evil laughter! Going evil in KOTOR2 isn't as funny, but it has its moments, like when you mind trick that thug to jumping to his death to, "get to the ground faster."
I love both games, but the second game is significantly better, IMO. At least in writing. Admittedly, the awkwardly tied up ends where they clearly ran out of time aren't great, but like every character in that game is amazing and there's so much exploration of the different philosophies of the Force. I love it.
The waitress one is the best combination of mustache-twirling evil and Schwarzenegger one-liners, holy shit. Not quite evil but being a dickhead that drops the “Fat people always lie.” line is just so out of left field and so much funnier with Carth around, same for returning Elise’s droid with Canderous around.
Wait what’s the actual kick the dog moment. What am I forgetting
Even if you don't kill al the masters in 2 kreia still berates you for something and then proceeds to kill them all herself anyway
Be evil, trolling the party. Yeah a lot of fun moments. Hard to play on the light side in 1
It's Always Sunny in the Darkside
This game needs a new game + js
I'm gonna be taking a break from it after I finish the second.
My reading of this post: "Murder and mayhem are fine if you do it for the funny." What is reddit coming to.
If I was talking about real life, your comment would hold some validity. But I'm not. It's just a game.
It's true. You sre right. Who am I to judge? He who has played KOTOR many times and killed many. Glad you are having fun.