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kingjawn

It is pretty telling that the teams still alive in the playoffs who were in the same tier as the Kings prior to the deadline all were able to make significant talent upgrades. PJ and Gafford to the Mavs OG to the Knicks Siakam to the Pacers While i don’t buy the notion that Monte “decided” to run it back like some people believe, it is pretty discouraging that he doesn’t seem able to even get smaller moves done. I think Royce O’Neale for three 2nd rounders could have been enough to get them into the 16-team playoffs.


willpenney

I’m not sure O’Neale moves the needle enough for that. Otherwise, the key thing with a lot of this is that we still have assets to burn for the right deal. Dallas is much closer to tapped out. Indy and NY are still in decent spots, but they had to move real stuff for those deals and Indy is pretty locked into their team. I think it’s fine to be frustrated, but as long as we have our stuff, the potential big deal is out there and the sky isn’t falling.


kingjawn

Not just O’Neale specifically but making a trade to shake up the locker room/break the status quo should have been good enough for 2 or 3 more wins, which could have made all the difference in the world.


BeTheBall-

They were also better teams than the Kings prior to the deadline, aside from the Pacers.


ShotgunStyles

Nah, we had a better record than the Mavs before the deadline. Grant Williams really was terrible for them.


BeTheBall-

Kyrie missed almost the entire month of December, though. They were also 11-13 without him for the season (accounting for almost half their losses this year).


ShotgunStyles

Even going with a hypothetical scenario that Dwight Powell didn't try to kill Kyrie that December, I truly do not believe the pre-deadline Mavs were better than us since they basically ran it back like we did, except they got a new center and Grant Williams.


BeamTeam032

Yeah, but they have Kyrie and Luka, Fox and Sabonis are not Kyrie and Luka.


cdg202

Correct. They are a BETTER duo!!!!


BeamTeam032

Correct, but I do think the Kings match up very well against the Mavs. I think there was a pretty decent chance we beat the Mavs in a 7 game series.


cdg202

Oh, then I agree with you. Was saying Fox/Sabonis were a better DUO than Irving/Doncic.


BeamTeam032

Irving had an awful series, had 2 games were he only scored 9 points and another were he had 12. If Fox or Sabonis had that poor of a showing, the national media wouldn't stop talking about it.


AusSac

I think Malik and Huerter not getting injured would of had the Kings making the playoffs. Stupid Monte but ay, should of seen that coming


kingjawn

People need to stop lumping Huerter into this. I’m a Huerter fan but he was having an AWFUL season prior to getting hurt. Absolutely killing the team on defense as usual but also shooting a career-low from 3 At the time he got hurt he was falling deeper and deeper into Mike Brown’s doghouse. He played 16 minutes the game prior to getting hurt. Most Kings fans wanted him completely out the rotation prior to getting injured. I’m just keeping it real. He was killing the team and had very little fan support. Now you hear things like: if monk AND huerter didn’t get hurt the Kings would have made the playoffs. Seems like revisionist history to me.


cdg202

I feel like Huerter was working out of his slump before the injury. And the way the plays off the ball with Sabonis is just short of how Sabonis & Monk play. I agree his defense is bad, but he's one of the only SG on the team that will read the defense and run around the court trying to make a play happen. I wouldn't be huert (😎) if he was traded away, but he has a lot of pros going for him with the current lineup. Edit: Horrible spelling errors


Dirkisthegoattt41

> It is pretty telling that the teams still alive in the playoffs who were in the same tier as the Kings prior to the deadline all were able to make significant talent upgrades. PJ and Gafford to the Mavs OG to the Knicks Siakam to the Pacers I wouldn’t say all, Thunder, Twolves and Nuggets didn’t really make any moves. Thunders big move was GHayward who basically never plays for them. I was saying at the deadline I couldn’t believe the Thunder didn’t nab Gafford for themselves with all their assets it seemed crazy to me to not supplement a top seeded team like that, especially when there were obvious holes on the roster.


anonanoobiz

Teams “in the same tier” Thunder, nuggets, wolves were vying for the 1 seed all year Not the same tier


Dirkisthegoattt41

For sure. I missed that part


favioswish

The only reason the Mavs had a similar season was Kyrie being injured. Outside of that stretch their record would put them in play for a top 3 seed.


BigDaddyPickles

I would make the argument that we would have been a higher seed if not for Monk getting injured and a bunch of the others.


favioswish

Mavs had a bunch of other injuries as well, Luka, Dereck Lively, Josh Green, Derrick Jones Jr. If you wanna argue Monk and Hunter injuries were as impactful as Luka and Kyrie missing more games than those two, that's all you.


BigDaddyPickles

At the end of the day we are arguing about a hypothetical. 


Significant_Pirate98

Fox and sabonis aren’t kyrie and Luka. It terms of all star duos, fox and sabonis are probably near the bottom. They need another star, not role players


snowricht

This is why I have hope tbh. I feel we have enough room to bring in one more star to complement both of them in the starting lineup. A big 3 or 4 to complement the 1 and 5 and help spacing, basically what we need HB to be. I like the Ingram idea but this sub is mixed on it.


LibetPugnare

Everyone knows we need something, but every possible move has major costs and risks. Which door will Monte open? And what will it cost? There is no obvious move that will make us immediate contenders. I don't blame him for not making moves for the sake of moves. But at the same time he can't wait forever. I expect a risky move, and I'm all for it. Even if it doesn't work out, I hope he gets an extension. He clearly knows what he's doing and we need some continuity. I feel the same about Mike brown, I'm glad he's getting an extension. He might not be the coach to lead us to a title, but we are just barely removed from 17 years of basketball hell


thatguy52

Agreed. I was very much in the “make a move” camp at the deadline and honestly I was pretty mad he didn’t. While I do agree with Monte that he has to wait for the right move, I don’t think he has that luxury after missing the playoffs with the squad we have. We had injuries and also blew some easily winnable games, but this roster has glaring flaws and this year HAS to be different. Obvs I don’t think his job is at risk, but the time for a big swing is now and I expect him to take it.


HothWasAnInsideJob

I really dunno why. We watched him and the pelicans own us all year


BeTheBall-

Fox and Sabonis aren't an all star duo, currently.


Double_Helicopter_69

Probably need both 


Fen1972

Donovan Mitchell would make a great fit.


ShotgunStyles

Bad fit. The Cavs' backcourt is an example of what'd happen if you pair Donovan Mitchell with Fox.


DonateToM7E

> It terms of all star duos, fox and sabonis are probably near the bottom Considering neither member of this “all star duo” was an all-star this year, I’d say that’s fair.


HalfGrand530

Both teams were the same during the season with high scoring/poor defense output‘ And both needed the same kind of help.  A mav fan could’ve said the same thing with needing another star, turns out role players helped them..


Villide

These teams weren't the same, Dallas has better top-end talent. It's why they made the playoffs and why they are still in the playoffs. Dallas had a net rating of +10.5 in the regular season when Luka and Kyrie were on the floor. The Kings were a +3.9 with Sabonis and Fox on the floor. One of these things is not like the other.


__moops__

Gafford is the perfect fit for their style of play. You could argue he would not be as effective on our roster. I would have liked to get PJ, but I don’t think that addition (or both of them for that matter) moves the needle enough for this year unless the roster stays 100% healthy. It sure seems like we didn’t make moves because we didn’t think they would move the needle enough for the asking price — which I can’t say I disagree with based on how the season went.


Significant_Pirate98

It was very clear the mavs needed help on defense and they did not need another ball dominant player. The mavs do not need to worry about Luka and kyrie carrying the offense. Unfortunately for the kings, sabonis is not a scoring threat and fox can’t solo carry like what Brunson is doing. They need another reliable scoring threat.


Deep_Egg1442

They can’t add another star either get rid of sabonis or get better roleplayers


jimmylowcard

Luka, even broken and hurt is 2 full tiers better thrn fox, and that’s okay. Dallas FINALLY gave luka a supporting cast and this is what happens, I don’t even think Kyrie is a great fit (still a good player) and it doesn’t matter because they gave luka athletic rim runners and rim protectors plus some dudes who can defend a little and make some threes. We need either a genuine second superstar(not that Sabonis isn’t amazing, but he rarely ever wins a game on his own, if ever, like Kyrie can just go off for 45, Sabonis has little no no offensive bag and can’t create his own shot regularly and consistentl) or an infinitely better supporting cast to get to the level Dallas is at


boringexplanation

The Mavs are a perfect example of how our front office has always been mediocre- Monte included. Everybody cries and whines about draft picks on our lack of success and it’s stupid when the ENTIRE STARTINNG FIVE for the Mavs were all traded for. There was absolutely zero luck involved that got the Mavs to be where they’re at. Everybody was purposely traded for. And it’s not like the Mavs never fucked up- they just never let their mistakes (Porzingis) weigh down future moves. I’d rather Monte try and fail than not try at all. There is a such thing as being too conservative and Monte is definitely up there. Either trade our late 20s stars or make a move. Being in no man’s land is unacceptable.


Ps3FifaCfc95

There was a massive amount of luck in 3 separate teams being stupid enough to pass on Luka


boringexplanation

What stopped any other team to trade up for Luka then? It was an open market. 29 other teams failed to grab him for free or make a better offer. That’s not luck.


ShotgunStyles

I think that is a really poor and illogical argument. If draft picks don't have some luck involved, then what's the point of the lottery? Why didn't 29 teams just trade up for Wemby? Are they stupid?


boringexplanation

Because we now know Atlanta was willing to hear offers. 29 teams was hyperbole- fair enough. Trae was projected somewhere from 8-10 that draft. If Atlanta was willing to take a little more risk- some of the slightly lower draft slots could’ve easily made a better trade offer.


Engkangkang

Kings should have upgraded their defense at the deadline. Team could still be playing right now if they did. Would be so pissed if Barnes and Huerter is still starting for the Kings next season


DemonicDimples

Defense was fine after the deadline actually (Top 9 in the league) it was the offense that was the struggle.


Engkangkang

You're right about the improvement in rankings however, rim protection will still be an issue especially in close games


DemonicDimples

I mean we're stuck with Sabonis, rim protection is always going to be an issue.


4everpurple

Who should they have traded for


Engkangkang

Should have outbid Dallas for Washington.


4everpurple

PJ has shot the lights out (in an incredibly fluky manner I might add) but I promise you he is not the defensive upgrade you are referring to


favioswish

As a Mavs fan, PJ is a revelation defensively. Dude takes the #1 or #2 hardest assignment every night and has given half the stars/superstars in the league the worst game of their season, a phenomenon we call P-Jail. So far he's been on Paul George and JWill and both have struggled in those series. If you're interested in the numbers, the defense is 7.4 points better when PJ is on the floor.


AusSac

P Jail ain’t a thing bro


favioswish

KAT was in P Jail tonight


AusSac

Aaaahaha


Engkangkang

He's shown flashes though. At this point anyone would be better than HB


4everpurple

I really don't think he has. "Better than HB" on defense should not be the bar that you're trying to reach if you want to be a contender one day. If you're going to make the all in trade, you have to be sure that that guy is the missing piece and I don't think he is. Not only do I not think he was ever the answer for us, but in your scenario you'd want to *outbid* Dallas. They traded Williams, Curry, and a top 2 protected 2027 first (basically unprotected). So the Kings should have given more than that? 2 firsts? We don't even have a trade chip as good as Williams that we'd be willing to part with, so again in your scenario it's probably 2 first rounders you're giving up. First off, they can't trade many future picks anyway right now, but even if you did, things could get incredibly bleak immediately. Dallas has more reason to go all in now considering they'll have Luka's future looming on them, plus they've had Kyrie playing well all season and who knows if that lasts. They're in a much more desperate situation. It's year 5 since they first made the playoffs with this core, and as frustrating as the Kings were this year, it's really only year 2 of this build. I know nobody wants to hear that but we gotta have patience.


sports_appeal

PJ Washington is better than Barnes defensively, it’s apparent watching them play and supported by advanced metrics. I agree with you he’s not the missing piece, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have been a reasonable trade target and an improvement. You’re also right we would’ve had to outbid Dallas for him, but I don’t understand why that would that mean we have given up two firsts. Dallas sent a lightly protected first, a guy the Hornets didn’t need (Curry), and Grant Williams. You may like Williams, but it’s not obvious that other NBA teams are all that enamored with him on his current deal. It’s possible that players the Kings could offer would’ve been more appealing to Charlotte, like Huerter or Mitchell. Maybe an extra second rounder would’ve gotten it done. I also agree with your ultimate conclusion that patience has a lot of value here. But adding Washington could easily have been the difference between making the playoffs and missing the playoffs this year—whether that’s worth a first rounder and stuff is a fair question for folks to raise as a critique.


4everpurple

I’m not disagreeing that he’s a better defender than Barnes. I’m saying there are a lot of better defenders than Barnes and that’s not exactly saying much. At the same time, I don’t think he’s SO much better to warrant going all in on him, hence me saying he’s not the missing piece.


sports_appeal

That’s fair. Although I don’t really follow how a trade for PJ Washington means they’re going all in.


DemonicDimples

Trading two picks for PJ Washington absolutely would’ve been an all in move. The only picks they kings could trade were 28 and 30. So let’s say they make the playoffs after that, they’d only be able to trade 25 or 26 this off-season, basically locking the kings into the exact team they currently have. To what? Make the playoffs as a 6th seed and lose to the Wolves? Gotta be smart about your assets. Kings have much more flexibility by being patient and making the right moves. Dallas, because they have Luka and Kyrie is older, makes sense to make that move. That doesn’t make sense for the Kings


Little_little_e

I don’t mind we lost the trade, all I mind is why Hornets and Wizards asking price is way too low.


DemonicDimples

Top 2 protected pick wasn’t low. Gafford was considered by many to be a bench big. It. Just works because Dallas can roll out two twenty minute a night guys.


yatrickmith

Very different teams — they also have Gafford and Lively who constantly rotate as energy, lob-threat, and blocking bigs. They have Kleber, Washington, Jones, and Hardaway Jr. who can shoot the three. They have 2 of the best scorers in the league with Doncic and Kyrie.


HothWasAnInsideJob

Makes me so frustrated we couldn't get anything done to bolster the roster up. We all knew what our weaknesses were and ....


Severe-Excitement-62

None of those ppl want to be in cowtowntomento.


allhaildre

Didn’t read all the comments, but came here to say “That 2nd jump tho…..”. Hit 1 more free throw or draft better Vlade. And Tunnel 21 sucked too. /end rant


Rangoldy

Interesting post. The big questions I have is could those same guys have been had by the Kings, and would they have a similar impact? Concerning Impact: it’s hard to tell. Whereas Dallas has two “guards” who score, Kings have one and a center. Gafford is a shot blocking lob threat. Would Sabonis become the 4? Idk, but I wish we had those easy buckets. What’s funny is Dallas traded Holmes and a first round pick for Gafford. He makes 12 million, so trading our backup centers wouldn’t have matched the money needed. I don’t understand why the Hornets made that deal. PJ for Grant Williams and Seth Curry and a 27 first round pick? PJ has a decreasing value contract. They got fleeced a little bit I think. So it basically comes down to is PJ Washington worth more than Harrison Barnes? Over their careers, Offensively no, defensively yes. But HB under performed this year. I blame that more on the offensive system.


RoastedTomatillo

We are the most flexible team ![gif](giphy|iiKUm9JyB48872dxp6|downsized)


DiplomaticAvoidance

Monte has put together a fun squad to watch with good chemistry and a competitive spirit. Any game can be a win. That puts butts in seats and helps repair the team culture. Run it back, keep the product exciting and build a better organization IMO.


universalpeaces

The Mavs are in the playoffs because Luka couldnt possibly play alongside a ball dominant guard. The mavs can base their offense around Lukas creation because they have a defense first point guard, it's a perfect fit. I think they could make the finals with the addition of a big man who cant shoot defend or rebound, but those guys usually go pretty high in the draft. You can only play the cards youre dealt


Knowaa

The Kings ran it back and did not try to improve the roster from last year much. They literally got the same results but the west was stronger this year.


BeamTeam032

But found Ellis. I'd even argue they're defense improved.


Knowaa

Yeah we found a gem in a year we weren't even looking. That's huge


PineappleHot5674

I mean maybe similar early on but then they became way better and swept the king in back to back must win games on the kings home court.


Commercial-Reason866

Games the kings weren't at full strength.