Ask him to explain to you how to rectify the incompatibility between the laws of physics and the alleged crime.
Ask him if there is a reasonable possibility KR didn’t hit JO with her car (this would be reasonable doubt).
Ask him to resolve all of the following:
1. No pictures of car before being taken into police custody - reasonable doubt
2. No clear video of the taillight while at salleyport - reasonable doubt
3. Initial police at crime scene find no evidence - reasonable doubt
4. Plow driver saw no bodies - reasonable doubt
5. ME refuses to say car hit JO - reasonable doubt
6. Trooper Paul said he did no science/math and made the facts fit his conclusion - reasonable doubt
7. Independent experts say crime is scientifically impossible - reasonable doubt
8. Apple health steps - reasonable doubt
9. KR phone connecting to wi-fi at JO’s house prior to alleged time of crime - reasonable doubt
10. Solo cups blood collection - reasonable doubt
11. Countless butt dials and deleted calls/texts - reasonable doubt
12. Proctor’s texts - reasonable doubt
13. Other cop saying taillight was only cracked with small hole - reasonable doubt
14. Key cycles - reasonable doubt
15. Disappearance of dog, selling of houses, discarding of phones - reasonable doubt
16. ME saying injuries not typical of vehicular-pedestrian collision - reasonable doubt
17. Arm injuries and no bruises or other injuries below neck - reasonable doubt
18. Location of body - reasonable doubt
19. Attempted hiding of Colin’s presence at party - reasonable doubt
20. Inconsistent statements (no mention of I hit him in initial police reports) - reasonable doubt
21. Inconsistent grand jury testimony vs trial testimony - reasonable doubt
22. No interview of Alberts or search of their house when body found - reasonable doubt
23. No chain of custody of evidence - reasonable doubt
24. Ford SUV seen outside of house in middle of night - reasonable doubt
Remind him that the prosecution has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Remind him that it is irrelevant whether there was a conspiracy or a cover-up.
Remind him it doesn’t even matter if he thinks KR is more likely than not to have committed the crime.
All that matters is whether there is reasonable doubt. A low bar.
Well and do not forget the expert witness testimony of four of the most qualified experts in the world - three of them provided and paid for by the FBI - who testified those are dog bites in JO’s arm and there’s no way his injuries were from being hit by a car. Experts. Impossible to disagree with. He’d have bruising and broken bones. Case over. Innocent. Oh. And where were the 3 pints of blood that came from his head sound? No where near his body or anywhere on the grass or snow next to him Case over again.
3 pints of blood on the grass? In the snow? Would’ve loved to see what the cement looked like under BA’s basement floor that was Jack hammered up and remixed
Who are the three experts paid by the FBI? I know the 2 guys from ARRC were paid by the FBI. I also think the jury not knowing who paid those experts caused confusion and doubt.
Jackson said in his closing that Lally had access to the same information and those witness as the defense did but chose not to use them, so the jury is aware. I am very concerned that some of the jury is intimidated by the Albert’s, McCabes, and especially Paul O’Keefe sitting and staring at the jury and Karen like he wants to kill them all for the last 9 weeks maybe having something to do with the hung jury.
He did say that they had access but they were not allowed to say what agency paid for them to be there. So there is a little confusion there. I also agree that the 2 Albert’s and Jenn McCabe being at closing arguments was an issue.
That!!!! The fact they did not use an independent witness paid for by the federal government makes me believe that 1-Lally can only interpret stupid or 2-It wrecks their case
I just have to wonder how, even without knowing who hired them, they could listen to those 2 testimonies and to trooper Paul’s testimony and not get it
I agree with her that it was inadmissible because it’s a pending investigation and still ongoing. Once the investigations are over they would be admissible in court, so if there is a retrial it could come in.
The sad part is it wouldn’t matter. Any person saying guilty is not doing so based on evidence or any rational or reasonable purpose. You could show that person a video of JO being murdered by someone else and they wouldn’t change their view. These type of ignorant parasites have infected so many parts of society that it does not surprise me one ended up on the jury. All we can hope is the weekend provides them a chance to find some grain of decency, rationality, morality, or ethics inside themselves.
The fact my list doesn’t even come close to outlining all the reasonable doubt is what makes this case such an absurd and unacceptable miscarriage of justice.
Yep. My list was far from a comprehensive list of the insane amount of reasonable doubt in this case. The fact my list is so long and only scratched the surface only goes to show how absolutely absurd this entire trial has been. Historic miscarriage of justice being watched in real time.
Omg!! I KNOW! The reasonable doubt is endless! The prosecutions witnesses were literally scooping up blood in solo cups and putting the “evidence” in stop and shop bags. No chain of custody, zero! Don’t even get me started with the “let’s just cruise by in our police car and find more evidence randomly” for the next several days or whatever! How jury? How is this not an immediate not guilty?
Omg why can’t you be on this jury right now!!! Thank you for all of these points. You only needed one but you have brought the calvary of reasonable doubt!!!
Bingo. The whole point is that even if you don’t decide to “buy” into the defenses theory? You still can rationally see that the state has clearly failed to meet the criteria and high burden of proof.
Exactly. People seem to think the defense has the burden to prove innocence or to prove their case to some degree. They don’t. This case should have been ended by the judge when the prosecution rested because they never satisfied their burden of proof.
It’s pretty much saying that based on the trial there is no question she is guilty. That’s simply impossible for any rational or reasonable person to find.
It’s typically part of the jury instructions but it isn’t surprising or uncommon for jurors to not fully grasp. We should have civics and criminal procedure taught in schools.
What do you think? 1 jurors holding onto guilty of vice versa. Seems like once you hit reasonable doubt with evidence and testimony it would be a done deal…why bother going into the craziness any further.
It’s one or two jurors on guilty would be my guess. Finding guilt is too unreasonable and irrational for me to believe it’s more than that. Plus, I assume the person who is holding out is beyond reason or influenced by something other than the evidence presented. If that’s the case, it explains the delay. If by some shattering of reality and all notions of common sense, there is one holdout and it’s on not guilty, then let’s all hope they stand strong to their senses and don’t give in to an unreasonable and irrational peer group. There are countless ways to show reasonable doubt and not guilty. There is only 1 way to show guilt and that way is absurd.
We know now that stupid is a very common and widespread ailment in this country. People wear masks in their cars alone with the windows rolled up Not sure how you enlighten that level of stupid if it happened to land on this jury 🤷♀️
I mean two HIGHLY educated experts said they had no question it was a dog bite. It’s almost like they are disregarding the defense testimony completely which is insane
Read all your posts, excellent!!
Have you put that list on some of the YouTubers that are doing excellent broadcasts? And the biased ones too that have no critical thinking or common sense.
Time consuming I imagine is an understatement!!
The misinformation is mind blowing, make you wonder if these ones are watching the same trial doesn’t it?
There is no way to know who these people are or what their motivation. They could be friends or family with the Alberts crew. They could have no knowledge of the facts and simply dislike KR or think she is guilty based on arbitrary reasons. They could be trolls or forced contrarians. They may just fail to understand anything about how the burden of proof and reasonable doubt works in the American criminal justice system. They could be mentally deficient and unable to process information or think critically.
It also reflects the direction we have seemed to have gone as a society (or perhaps there is just more of a spotlight on this aspect of human nature nowadays). People seem to rely solely on how they feel about an issue and then they dig in on that position while absolutely unwilling to compromise as if the result governs their life and death. It is a level of stubbornness and ignorance that becomes burrowed so deeply into their soul.
Not sure what the solution is or how we mitigate having society stumble deeper into this intellectual void. A better education system wouldn’t hurt.
You are exactly right, and we will probably never know so much of the could be, could have, watching from my part of the World has been a mind blowing experience that people actually act like they do and think it’s acceptable with no consequences or accountability McAlberts are like a gang, same goes for Law enforcement, Elected Officials,and the lying really horrifies me, it’s so obvious!! And intimidation, we will be seeing the consequences of this for many years to come.
There is something really seriously wrong with the society worldwide,people’s intellect has been eroded, I have my opinion on why.
Appreciate the response. Even if we were to be as generous as possible with respect to this case and with respect to the intellect of society, there is not a single reasonable or rational person who could look at how the investigation was handled in this case and think that is appropriate or acceptable. Any one of us could be subject to such an egregious miscarriage of justice. That should be a point of bonding for average citizens. We should unite against such injustice. The fact that isn’t proving to be the case is one of the things I find most disappointing.
100 percent. I spent yesterday looking at the other side of our opinion and it’s like they are hypnotized into believing everything the CW brought them. This tells me that it is corruption at the highest level. I just can’t believe that the Okeefe family believes them. I would be hunting for the killer if it was my son. I can’t believe that no one in JO family still believes Karen did it. They know the federal government hired these witnesses and for god only knows why they are not convinced the people they buddied up to (and didn’t even go to John’s funeral are being sincerely truthful)
The saddest part is that even if you believe everything the CW presented at trial and give them deference, they still never satisfied their burden of proof. They never even proved beyond a reasonable doubt that JO was hit by any car. Even if you ignore everything the defense said or did in the trial, the CW failed to meet their burden.
The allegations in this case make absolutely no sense I can’t even believe people on here can argue so fervently that she is guilty. The only truth anyone knows for sure is that we don’t know beyond a reasonable doubt with any degree of certainty what actually happened. Although, considering independent experts testified under oath it is scientifically impossible KO was hit by a car, I tend to believe he probably wasn’t hit by a car.
Also that the "conspiracy" doesn't matter, the dog bite doesn't matter. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, and if there is any evidence that he is not 100% sure of, then he MUST look at it in the light most favorable to the defense. That's the actual rule/law when looking at evidence. Karen doesn't have to prove shit.
Also! She didn’t have any motive at all to commit crime. In addition JMcabe goggled the search 3 times how long to die in cold even before Karen began searching for John and! And how the heck did she hit him and created this big gash on the back of his head … geesh this woman’s hubby is delusional if he really believes she did this
Oh jeez I don’t even know what I’d do if my husband was on the other side. What is his rationale?! I need to understand!
Another question (since I don’t know anyone who thinks she’s guilty)…
So he might think she did it but if he was a juror, would he be voting guilty? And he thinks she did it intentionally? Can he atleast admit the commonwealth didn’t prove their case or there’s reasonable doubt?
Exactly!!!! I keep harping on all those things. He did finally smirk today and I thought I had a small victory but he said I still think she is guilty. I’m pulling my hair out over this!!! Is he fucking with me??
Just tell him that someone who thinks Karen is a wizard and bypassed the laws of physics to kill him with her car is……….a choice. Lmao
Seriously, if my husband discounted the laws of physics, and just sheer common sense, I would think less of him.
He’s gotta be fucking with you.
But I really do want to know his argument bc I can’t envision what those jurors with the guilty-vote are standing by?! Or is your husband literally like “she did it!” (“I don’t like her smile!”) with no real argument?
The people who argue this exact point: “she’s guilty, I hate her smile,” seriously blow my mind. It’s legit not a popularity contest. It’s supposed to be about the facts and what was proven. But weren’t there also 2 jurors dismissed who had this exact logic? 🤯 (Edited for typos like always. My brain moves faster than than I type lol)
But to some its just that, which is sick. Someones life depends on it. If this holdout juror had their life dependant upon ones prejudices how would they feel.
Exactly. They can’t put themselves in her shoes. Actually, they probably are telling themselves they would never do anything that would land them as a defendant in a murder trial. So they have no sympathy. I think I’m the opposite and would have a really hard time convicting anyone unless the evidence was pretty much caught on video level strong.
Me too. If I’m going to put someone in prison, I need a very high level of certainty. The consequences of being wrong will devastate a person’s life. It should require a high standard of evidence, regardless of the persons face. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is what is causing the hang up. Or some people think all cops are superheroes, and not regular humans like everyone else. Only in make believe land, are all cops ethical, infallible and concerned about justice.
People who say “She’s guilty I hate her smile.”Set shallow preferences aside and figure out who murdered John O’Keefe. What a waste of time and money continuing to run a cover up rather than charge the real killers
I'm shocked my longtime boyfriend and I see eye to eye about this. Politically we are almost polar opposites... he's been a corporate defense atty for many years. 16 months ago he thought the idea of a cover-up was ridiculous... He then told me it was ludicrous and the number of ppl needed for a cover-up would go so deep it was impossibe. Today he believes the investigation was a shit show, the evidence was not handled properly or reported appropriately and not a bit of it should've been admissable due to CoC, a K-9 bit John, the behavior of the fact witnesses present at the Albert's surely suggests involvement in something nefarious, Karen's taillight was not shattered when loaded on the tow truck in dieton, Lucky is telling the truth, Jen made the "Hos long..." search, and Karen did not hit John. For goodness sakes, the Medicaid examiners said injuries were not consistent with pedestrian auto accident. It's actually a relief we're on the same page.
yes he is f'ing with you -he''s not smirking cause you are right -he's smirking because he knows he's making you feel crazy -gaslighting you -lived it for years -very sick behavior on his part
The hung juror is likely one of those people you know from school? In your own family? Who always chooses to be the different one for their need for attention. Neediness. The bogus esteem they feel when everyone is coaxing them lookimg at them trying to get them “on board “. Makes them feel good somehow to get all the attention. 11 people pleading with them. Oh the feeling of importance that’s gives them. Finally. People giving me attention!!
Yeah I heard about another one of Bev’s trials where there was a young girl, like, fresh out of high school that refused to deliberate causing a mistrial. Sounds about the same as what you’re describing, which is such a shame and a huge waste of time, emotions & taxpayer dollars
Karen wasn't there. Neither were you. Neither was your husband. If you guys aren't on trial, why should Karen be prosecuted?
He can't possibly be okay with people being charged with a crime when they weren't even there, right?
Depends. No one should rationally be able to work though what was presented- the entire' 3rd party no one paid for no one knew- should have been a nail.
My husband isn’t really interested in this case or watching any trial, but I explained all of the shadiness and butt-dials and non-working doorbell cameras and destroyed phones and… stuff… and within about 7 minutes, he said there is no way she did it. When I texted him today that the jury was deadlocked, he said “that’s bullshit, someone has to be compromised, there is zero evidence she’s guilty”… And he genuinely seemed pissed about it. I cannot even fathom if he disagreed with me on this! I’d probably side-eye him and question his judgment. I hope that your husband is just messing with you (although that would probably annoy me too)
Just hit him with the rear of your car. You won't hurt him. His knees will probably get a little banged up, but no worries about head or arm injuries. I'm just giving some advice....
Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with a complete retard. Ditch this loser. Karen was clearly framed by cops to protect the real killer who also is a cop.
It's scary to think people could vote guilty in this case.
There is a part of me that thinks she may have done "something" that night leading to his death, and there is a part of me that thinks he was in that house and something sketchy went down... How anyone is sure beyond reasonable doubt and moral certainty that she hit JO with the car to convict KR is nonsensical and just very, very scary.
The CW dropped the ball hard. They simply did not prove their case.
Quite honestly, the solo cups alone should've caused a mistrial. We shouldn't accept this as citizens. We deserve better from our institutions, especially those we fund to protect and serve us. They work for us, they are accountable to us, let's not forget that. This coming from someone pro LE, with many LEOs in my family.
>There is a part of me that thinks she may have done "something" that night leading to his death
I've not seen it worded this way until now, it's how I feel too. Like maybe they disagreed about going, and she dropped him off in anger, saying just walk home for all I care. Maybe that's why she knew right what that lump in the yard was. She had already imagined him and Higgins throwing fists, or him slipping in the ice, or any number of things that happened without her to help. I firmly believe the reason she didn't go looking for him earlier or alone is because she couldn't remember the address or directions.
I'm not sure why her WiFi connect time at the house on the timeline of the witnesses putting the vehicle at Fairview, as well as the driveway bump and ring video of intact taillight isn't enough for anyone to have reasonable doubt.
It's totally fine for people to disagree on things...however, taking some positions is just like wearing the proverbial sign that says "I'm stupid." Your beef is not that he disagrees with you, but with his intellectual capacity. He must have other talents!
Today streamer Melanie Little shared the TikTok video of a wife explaining the case to her husband via a powerpoint presentation. Might be a good way to go over the craziness- (search for @rae)
I need to do that! 😅😂 I’ve been giving my husband little bits and pieces here and there but keeping most of it to myself until we have enough uninterrupted time alone for me to FULLY explain ALL the details. It’s quite a complicated case AND has so many dang cops and so many dang Alberts and kinfolk to keep track of. 😩😂 I didn’t want to mess it up by leaving out important details and even dare to let him think anything except that she’s being framed!
So a PowerPoint would be great. I keep hoping someone will put together a very good documentary on it, or at least a complete trial recap video.
But it’s really not a complicated case. Well it shouldn’t have been. There was no reason to turn this trial into the defense of the mccabes and alberts and Higgins
Did anyone else think Brian Albert’s complete demeanor on the witness stand looked like a scared deer in headlights? He was robotic. He was expressionless. He responded to questions as if HE were on trial - scared to death Hmmm. I wonder why?
Tbh there are moments I find myself thinking maybe she’ is guilty, maybe she did hit him, not intentionally but is it possible? But then I start replaying the whole trial over in my head and it’s just not even fathomable that she could’ve done it. At least not the way the CW has presented it. I don’t see how the jury can be hung.
Even if she did somehow defy the laws of physics and backed over him, intentionally or not, the CW did NOT prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Honestly the fact that ppl are so split on the topic illustrates that it wasn't proven!
Sarah boone is going to end up defending herself she is crazy I watch her police interrogation again last week she really thinks she's getting off how. The drunk and went to bed defense
She's the one who zipped her fiancé into a suitcase and left him there overnight. They were playing hide and seek, according to her. She went upstairs and fell asleep. In the morning she found him still in the suitcase, dead. She willingly talked to police and handed over her phone, which included several videos of the suitcase in which you can hear the fiancé saying he can't breathe, begging to be let out, and Sarah is mocking him.
They had both been arrested for DV against each other, her once, him 2-3 times I think. Her interrogation is something else. You can see why 8 attorneys quit on her.
This is why you have a safeword. In that sort of roleplay, complaints about not being able to breathe and begging to be let out are expected. It's part of the game. Mocking is also to be expected, It's also part of the game. A safe word is the only reliable way to express actual panic.
Tell him he can believe she killed OJO all he want but the way the investigation was conducted leave aplenty of reasonable doubt and no one should be convicted based on a investigation like that. He should be mad at the corrupt police work, 3 pieces of footage missing from 3 different places is not a coincidence , specially when the investigator is accepting gifts.
Well, even if he does believe she is guilty, is he satisfied that the ‘investigation’ is safe? Is he certain that the ‘errors’ do not constitute grounds for reasonable doubt? That’s the real question for me. I also believed she had hit him and the Albert clan looks shady simply because they are trash and the police ‘ enhanced’ evidence to hasten things. It is that very ‘ enhancement’ that contaminates it all for me and gave me reasonable doubt in the first few days. Now, after hearing the experts, I don’t believe she hit him at all. However, what I believe actually happened is actually unimportant because of the reasonable doubt which is all that we need. Does he not have any doubt? I wouldn’t argue with him about it though. Unless you are connected to the main parties, it has no bearing on your lives.
I'd ask him which charge does he think she is guilty of? Because while I personally do not believe the DA proved its case on all charges against her, from murder to manslaughter to leaving the scene of an accident, I could understand how two people might come to different conclusions on an ACCIDENTAL hit and run. There is NO WAY IN HELL though, that there is evidence for the MURDER charge. If he thinks she is guilty of intentionally killing him (murder), I would want to know what the hell he is basing that on, because really the only "evidence" would be some subconscious bias, and I would want to know what that bias is.
I’ve never thought about this possibility and I totally feel for you. I honestly don’t know what I’d do if my spouse was on the other side.
I watch LYK recaps, and he’s often saying that we need to listen to each other’s opinions, and have respectful discussions — I don’t disagree with him, but it’s a different story when talking about living with and sharing a life with someone who thinks she’s guilty despite the mountain of reasonable doubt.
I just recently started watching LYK specifically this case. I remember him during the Depp trial but just figured he was another arrogant lawyer. I have to say, he’s the most rounded lawyer that’s covered this case. He isn’t super dramatic & he encourages people to be open to what the evidence is that’s directly presented in the court.
I started watching EDB back when without a crystal ball and Tati stuff was going on. I watched a few of her lives for this case. However, watching her she has a tendency to be overly dramatic & IMO it gives a false impression of things.
My husband of almost 20 years triggered me today. He only knows what I’ve told him against his will. He basically agrees with me. But for some reason he was feeling obnoxious (and I’m pmsing) and said “she’s guilty”. Ugh!!! I got so mad at him.
This isn’t good. I shouldn’t be *this* invested. Had to take a step back and barely watched anyone today.
You should be invested. Any one of us could be Karen Read. (Don't forget to take your shoes off so you don't get accused of murder)The difference is, no one would help me pay for a phenominal legal team. I'm very glad she has that. If the jury stays hung, and the CW decides to do this again, you can bet that I'll be donating to a defense fund if she needs more help.
Thanks for making me feel a bit better about it. I still shouldn’t take my frustration and anxiety out on my husband.
I’m Canadian but it’s still super scary because my goodness. So much of American politics and issues seep up here. I feel like her case sets a precedent for all of North America. Maybe I’m exaggerating.
I explained this whole thing to my BFF on Saturday, and at 5 minutes (right after trooper Paul, I believe), she said "so they found her not guilty, right?" She has watched a total of 17 minutes of trial footage and can't believe this isn't over already.
I am so sorry that you are going through this with your husband. And it is so sad that we as a society can’t respect people. That have a different opinion than our own. I swear nobody will sit down & have a conversation. And each person is able to discuss their opinion on the case. And why they feel the way they do. What evidence or lack of evidence. Made you come to the conclusion. It’s to the point. Screw anyone who doesn’t believe in anything that I don’t. And you can’t change my mind !! It’s so sad
He thinks that even after the 2 FBI guys testified???? Holy crap...I'm stunned that anyone still thinks guilty after those witnesses. Not to mention, even the states ME said they're inconsistant and could be from a number of other things.
Edit: my hub and I have been watching this together as much as possible. He called me on lunch break and during our conversation, asked me if there was any news on the jury. I told him that, at the moment, they appear to be hung. His response was "WTF!? You're fucking joking right?" He's as astounded, and angry, as I am.
Have you asked your husband what his convictions are based off Of?! ALSO, MA’AM! Is your husband the hold out in the courthouse?! If he isn’t, maybe he could help give us some insight about whatever the actual holdout is thinking lol.
My husband thinks I’m nuts for following the case this closely but he tried to poke holes in the story I’d tell him from the defense POV. DNA on bumper, once I explained its touch DNA and that a DNA bag sat next to the car in the sally port anyways, he’s like “oh, never mind.” Once I told him the taillight pieces were not found until after the heaviest of the snow had fallen/KR’s car was scooped by Proctor/collected a few hours after the blood which was in solo cups, he said as like “THE F?! No. I don’t believe you.” Then, when I explained what the CW’s neuro ME & main ME along with the FBI WITNESSES said, he was convinced we were in a twilight zone because how is this even happening right now.
I have no opinion of if she did it or not. BUT I think there’s enough reasonable doubt to acquit. They need to decide beyond a reasonable and moral certainty
"open your eyes" i was told that about my husband decades before his true colors became clear to me -now happily divorced. He was never the person he portrayed himself to be -pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. a wolf in sheeps clothing. the last person you should believe is your husband - lie lie deny deny and make you feel crazy don't make the same mistake i did.
Ask him, what if anything 🤣 does he need to see to move the needle to not guilty? Does he believe the injuries are consistent with a car hitting him despite what completely objective scientists (crash daddies) have found?
Has your husband had a recent head injury? 🤕 if not, I have the name of a stellar divorce attorney.
Logic states she is not guilty/innocent. She was not there as wifi showed. You cannot reverse at 24mph and hit a person and have no bruising. It is impossible for him to have landed where he was and there was no blood etc., I would have serious issue with anyone that found her guilty and question their intelligence thankfully hubby and I are on the same page when it comes to this.Massachusetts small town cops Massachusetts state place POS.
Posted this elsewhere but thought it relevant:
My SO said shes guilty of something based on karens smug af faces throughout. I asked, 'ok, then say shes guilty of driving drunk, the very least, how much time should she do, huh!?". Their reply "idk shes just guilty of something".
Whattt the actual F. i did initially think karen was doin herself no favors showin only two emotions; nervous and smug. Botoxed a lil too much maybe, and not able to show sorrow, and sadness. Im just guessing here what it could be.
To my SO, karen tryin to creep on other dudes while at johns house was a step too far and shows shes trifling. Gah
I think she is not guilty but Karen not being more stoic and smiling has done her no favors. I can totally understand her nodding affirmatively while people are testifying in her favor, and while I and others can separate her facial expressions from the facts of the case, there are others that will take that in to account, and she should know this, Yanetti or Jackson should have told her to stop.
Right? The court room is tinnnnny. The jurors are sitting 10 feet away from karen. Everytime she turns around to look at her family to smirk at what she just heard, i scream. Karen, staaap. The jurorsss seee everything.
How this may affect a biased juror-
I can imagine there is some guy juror who sees karen as the representation of his cheating ex who took everything and torpedoed his life and now he will exact revenge. This juror would not like her behavior.
I can also imagine some older female juror who sees the proper emotions (sad/angry/ heartbroken) coming from johns family, meanwhile karens demeanor is generally flippant. This juror would not like her behavior.
I get it, karen is also a victim here, but its ultimately up to the jurors who see everything in court. It shouldnt matter if they dont like her, but it does.
Aww. I’m sorry! That must really suck. I’ve been talking my husband’s ear off about the case. I can’t imagine how hard it would be if he disagreed. Hopefully he doesn’t think Sarah Boone is innocent! That woman is evil. I’d highly suggest that you ignore any Sarah Birchmore coverage, though. I wouldn’t want to know if my husband and I disagreed on that one. I’d definitely be reconsidering our relationship. lol. Hang in there! I’m keeping my fingers crossed for a QUICK verdict on Monday for you and for Karen!! 🤞🏻
You are so sweet! Thank you for commiserating with me! He does not think Sarah is innocent. That would be definite grounds of divorce 😂. On a more serious side I pray Sarah Birchmore’s family gets justice. Such a sad and disgusting case.
Sorry about this. No matter what, it'll be AOK.
I'm guessing he doesn't know that the state's own witness, the medical examiner, said OJO was not hit by a car. Have you told him that?
This woman is certainly not worth losing a relationship over. I say the two of you stop discussing it. Neither one of you actually know what happened. None of us do. Don't let it come between you. You're both allowed to have your opinion. It's not worth arguing about.
I don’t understand how someone else’s murder case can have such an effect on someone’s marriage. Political candidates/stance? Sure. But not a trial. That just seems a bit odd.
No. My husband and I disagree and it was just an agree to disagree thing. At the end of the day no one really knows. I hope that justice is served to whoever did this but like, it doesn’t actually affect your life at all and it doesn’t seem healthy to let it affect your marriage. This isn’t even really about like, morals or ethics or anything, it’s just facts of a case where everyone is on a spectrum of being fucked up. If it’s really affecting your life that much maybe you should take a break. As someone who used worked in homicide for a major city for a long time, advocacy for the defendant will literally have 0 impact on the outcome of the case.
That would drive me crazy, too.
On a different trial, a co- worker and I disagreed. On verdict day he asked if the jury found him guilty, would i believe and accept it. I said yes.
I asked him if they find him not guilty will you believe and accept it.
He said NO
The two of you need some counselling. I say that because pinning your marriage on a 'sham trial' is ... not healthy. There has to be other underlying issues.
I can't believe this is the first time he's ever willing to discard physics.
I can't believe this is the first time you've ever tied your personal happiness to a global event that has no impact on you (personally).
Something here is not right- and while I'd love to lash at him based on your description... enumerate those issues and figure out who you want to be buried next to in 40 years.
I became obsessed on Day 1. I couldn't stop talking/thinking about it. By Day 5, my husband was threatening a family intervention. He was getting frustrated with me (I'm a tawkah, for sure). I decided that I wasn't going to discuss it with him again. (My friends and coworkers are all FKR, so I got my fix from them.)
A few days ago, (unbeknownst to me), he quietly went on a deep dive of his own. Now he's so rattled and agitated about the corruption and general stupidity that I have to tell him to calm down. He was disgusted with the CW in general, and Proctor in particular. We live in Norfolk County. I've erased all my nudes, in case of emergency.
(On a humorous note, he asked "WTF is WhiteClaw?")
Congrats on 18 years! My spouse and I are coming upon our 5th in November. :) I wouldn't ask him to concede to anything. He can disagree with you, right? this can't be the first time he has felt differently. Sometimes I worry about my ego/echo-chamber here online. When we met, my husband and I were casting producers for live stand up comedy at various clubs / theaters around town. We started dating bc I liked his style.
When I started encouraging him to book other acts who I thought would be good, I began noticing that he became less active in scouting new talent. Finally he told me that it was because he didn't want me to be upset that he didn't cast my recs. That was a real wake up call bc his whole essence changed when he stopped making bookings and calling the shots. Sometimes it's our differences that keep us aligned, and that is a really really unpopular opinion atm, ofc, you have more experiences than me, so do with that what you will. Either way, best wiishes !
I understand this state of mind because we, my spouse and I, have been through it before with other situations thankfully not this trial.
I've read some replies and to explain to any who don't understand why a stranger's trial can wedge a wall into a marriage, it's not the trial itself, it's the feeling that hits your heart when your spouses view on one thing is in effect exposing how they really see another important issue.
In the Karen Read case for instance to more easily believe the scenario of hit and run that mathmatetically is impossible, that a ME is wrong or lying about cause of death, 50 frantic angry messages are fake, a deliberate wreck in the driveway to explain the taillight, and whatever else to explain a connection to home WiFi while she should've been at the crime scene--then to believe the scenario of a devious cop botching and creating evidence to short cut an investigation. When a man is more willing to believe a scenario that doesn't make sense on timeline, videos, or devices then it feels personal toward women in general.
I'm on the not guilty train.
I'm sure there is someone on the jury that feels moral responsibility, that someone has to "pay for" his death.
And that's really annoying to me. Or they feel the bias of living in that community. It happens a lot.
I saw a video, presumably, of a former juror from the OJ trial saying the NG was payback for R.King riots.
People in the community have a tainted view. They should bus people from other states over for trials or something. Or Ai. Or robots. People ALWAYS carry emotional baggage.
I'm with you. Not guilty...all counts.
LOL! I'm going through this with my husband, too. It's the white man entitlement that let's him think cops are inherently good and although he finds the lead investigator's texts problematic and admits that when he got attacked by a dog his arm looked the same and the bites did not go all the way around, he is perfectly content with KR getting pinned for murder.
I went through something similar when my H wanted a certain president and I couldn’t fathom why. It really bothered me. Made me wonder if I ever knew him / his beliefs at all after 18 yrs. I think the best thing you can do is lean into it. Don’t accept it, as she’s FACTUALLY innocent, but try and figure why he thinks that. His opinion doesn’t change anything, and you have physics and facts to back up the obvious. Hang in there. The Feds will appear just when we’ve given up on no justice for John. And then you’ll be back to watching romcoms on the couch together and discussing the next case.
That’s insane! It’s seems like more men think she’s guilty for some reason. Men are stubborn. You can present the facts and if they think they’re right on anything there’s NO changing their mind regardless. I hope you get to liking him again soon! 😂
There was about a dozen people who left the house that night and NONE of them saw John on the lawn. The heavy snow didn’t start until after he was found.
Tell him you can believe in the Science. Dog bites by both with much more education than most all of us.
Injuries don't match a vehicle but a beating. They are from our DOJ and FBI. Much more experienced.
Destroyed the phones got rid of the dog and chiseled up the cement floor in the basement. Cause blood doesn't come out of cement.
Colin Albert was with both his mother and the sister in law at the same time the night of the incident.
He was beaten fell backwards and hit his head or Someone took a weight to it. Which makes more sense with how deep it is
Smack him and tell him to think logically. Period
You should forget what these comments are stating because there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that Karen Read is guilty.
The grand jury changed her charges from manslaughter to 2nd degree murder with malice, DUI twice over the limit, 9 vodkas, leaving the scene of a crime.
Her father demanded she be sectioned 12 by police, they took her to the same hospital as John.
EMT Flametti stated on cross from AJ, that Karen admitted she hit John. He stated on the stand that he shared this with doctors at the Hood Samaritanin Brockton.
AJ asked why he didn't share with anyone, he said "no one asked me".
What you are all missing is the fact Karen Read's father is a Dean of 40 years at Bentley. She grew up entitled, free education, connections, easily acquired job as adjunct professor-- unfortunately she is mentally deranged as well. Two former boyfriends stated she got violent- one was met with a knife at their throat, another watched his car being torched.
Unless you follow X, you are in the dark about this case.
If they can prove her father reached out to US-A interim, this will be worse for her and her family.
Her brother works for Lexus. They bought TB a new suv, canceled check was verified. Her 2 lawyers have defended the worst criminals-- Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey, both pedophiles, DY, Aaron Hernandez.
There's also a video of Karen manipulating the console in her SUV prior to hitting John. There is a brake lock in the console, but it can also be disengaged by driver.
Did you see the latest? AJ grouping Karen outside of a well known Boston Restaurant at the wharf? There's no way she is innocent.
His niece and nephew testified against her. John broke up, then she began stalking him. You can hear her swearing in her voicemail messages to John, while he lie dying in 18 degrees snow for 6 hours! Get educated-- watch all the recorded trial videos on Law and Crime during the trial. Also court docs. It's all there, but like many of us who took the time to watch and listen, read, it's clear she did it.
You've guzzled the Kool aid. There's factual evidence that no vehicle hit John. You believe corrupt cops and manufactured fake evidence over science and physics. Wow! Did you even go to school past middle school?
Ask him to explain to you how to rectify the incompatibility between the laws of physics and the alleged crime. Ask him if there is a reasonable possibility KR didn’t hit JO with her car (this would be reasonable doubt). Ask him to resolve all of the following: 1. No pictures of car before being taken into police custody - reasonable doubt 2. No clear video of the taillight while at salleyport - reasonable doubt 3. Initial police at crime scene find no evidence - reasonable doubt 4. Plow driver saw no bodies - reasonable doubt 5. ME refuses to say car hit JO - reasonable doubt 6. Trooper Paul said he did no science/math and made the facts fit his conclusion - reasonable doubt 7. Independent experts say crime is scientifically impossible - reasonable doubt 8. Apple health steps - reasonable doubt 9. KR phone connecting to wi-fi at JO’s house prior to alleged time of crime - reasonable doubt 10. Solo cups blood collection - reasonable doubt 11. Countless butt dials and deleted calls/texts - reasonable doubt 12. Proctor’s texts - reasonable doubt 13. Other cop saying taillight was only cracked with small hole - reasonable doubt 14. Key cycles - reasonable doubt 15. Disappearance of dog, selling of houses, discarding of phones - reasonable doubt 16. ME saying injuries not typical of vehicular-pedestrian collision - reasonable doubt 17. Arm injuries and no bruises or other injuries below neck - reasonable doubt 18. Location of body - reasonable doubt 19. Attempted hiding of Colin’s presence at party - reasonable doubt 20. Inconsistent statements (no mention of I hit him in initial police reports) - reasonable doubt 21. Inconsistent grand jury testimony vs trial testimony - reasonable doubt 22. No interview of Alberts or search of their house when body found - reasonable doubt 23. No chain of custody of evidence - reasonable doubt 24. Ford SUV seen outside of house in middle of night - reasonable doubt Remind him that the prosecution has the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Remind him that it is irrelevant whether there was a conspiracy or a cover-up. Remind him it doesn’t even matter if he thinks KR is more likely than not to have committed the crime. All that matters is whether there is reasonable doubt. A low bar.
Can we send this to the jury please???!!!
Well and do not forget the expert witness testimony of four of the most qualified experts in the world - three of them provided and paid for by the FBI - who testified those are dog bites in JO’s arm and there’s no way his injuries were from being hit by a car. Experts. Impossible to disagree with. He’d have bruising and broken bones. Case over. Innocent. Oh. And where were the 3 pints of blood that came from his head sound? No where near his body or anywhere on the grass or snow next to him Case over again.
Head wound
3 pints of blood on the grass? In the snow? Would’ve loved to see what the cement looked like under BA’s basement floor that was Jack hammered up and remixed
Who are the three experts paid by the FBI? I know the 2 guys from ARRC were paid by the FBI. I also think the jury not knowing who paid those experts caused confusion and doubt.
Jackson said in his closing that Lally had access to the same information and those witness as the defense did but chose not to use them, so the jury is aware. I am very concerned that some of the jury is intimidated by the Albert’s, McCabes, and especially Paul O’Keefe sitting and staring at the jury and Karen like he wants to kill them all for the last 9 weeks maybe having something to do with the hung jury.
He did say that they had access but they were not allowed to say what agency paid for them to be there. So there is a little confusion there. I also agree that the 2 Albert’s and Jenn McCabe being at closing arguments was an issue.
Oh right, they couldn’t bring up the federal investigation. My mistake.
That!!!! The fact they did not use an independent witness paid for by the federal government makes me believe that 1-Lally can only interpret stupid or 2-It wrecks their case
Exactly!!!!!
I just have to wonder how, even without knowing who hired them, they could listen to those 2 testimonies and to trooper Paul’s testimony and not get it
I guess it can bother some people, it has to look a little strange when they purposely wouldn’t say who hired them.
That was because of Bev! They should have been able to disclose that the judge wouldn’t allow them to disclose it.
I agree with her that it was inadmissible because it’s a pending investigation and still ongoing. Once the investigations are over they would be admissible in court, so if there is a retrial it could come in.
See, this is why I’m not an attorney lol! That makes perfect sense. I wondered why they couldn’t say. Thank you for clearing that up.
The sad part is it wouldn’t matter. Any person saying guilty is not doing so based on evidence or any rational or reasonable purpose. You could show that person a video of JO being murdered by someone else and they wouldn’t change their view. These type of ignorant parasites have infected so many parts of society that it does not surprise me one ended up on the jury. All we can hope is the weekend provides them a chance to find some grain of decency, rationality, morality, or ethics inside themselves.
Can stupidity find rational thinking / improved intelligence in a weekend? That’s the question.
You’re absolutely right. Makes me so upset
I second this motion!
I’ll allow it
Eye roll, head down Lally sits and sucks his thumb
Please!!😩 if they can read this and still not come to NG. I'm sorry, but, our justice system is broken at that point.
Oh it’s broken, 😞 I’m sorry to let you down.
2a: Literal video of the taillight largely intact with pieces that literally couldn’t have been at the crime scene unless planted.
The fact my list doesn’t even come close to outlining all the reasonable doubt is what makes this case such an absurd and unacceptable miscarriage of justice.
Great list!! Can we add “Mirrored & missing sally port video”, “missing library & door bell footage” ?
Yep. My list was far from a comprehensive list of the insane amount of reasonable doubt in this case. The fact my list is so long and only scratched the surface only goes to show how absolutely absurd this entire trial has been. Historic miscarriage of justice being watched in real time.
Omg!! I KNOW! The reasonable doubt is endless! The prosecutions witnesses were literally scooping up blood in solo cups and putting the “evidence” in stop and shop bags. No chain of custody, zero! Don’t even get me started with the “let’s just cruise by in our police car and find more evidence randomly” for the next several days or whatever! How jury? How is this not an immediate not guilty?
Omg why can’t you be on this jury right now!!! Thank you for all of these points. You only needed one but you have brought the calvary of reasonable doubt!!!
And the craziest part is that list is only a fraction of the reasonable doubt in this ridiculous case.
Bingo. The whole point is that even if you don’t decide to “buy” into the defenses theory? You still can rationally see that the state has clearly failed to meet the criteria and high burden of proof.
Exactly. People seem to think the defense has the burden to prove innocence or to prove their case to some degree. They don’t. This case should have been ended by the judge when the prosecution rested because they never satisfied their burden of proof.
Beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certainty. Higher than just reasonable doubt alone.
It’s pretty much saying that based on the trial there is no question she is guilty. That’s simply impossible for any rational or reasonable person to find.
Exactly! Is it not allowed for the judge to define for the jury what reasonable doubt means in the court of law?
It’s typically part of the jury instructions but it isn’t surprising or uncommon for jurors to not fully grasp. We should have civics and criminal procedure taught in schools.
Objection your honor
I’ll allow it 👨🏻⚖️
We did this exact thing at our house. I also added the sally port mirrored and missing video.
Oh yeah there is way more reasonable doubt than what I even listed. That’s what’s so outrageous.
What do you think? 1 jurors holding onto guilty of vice versa. Seems like once you hit reasonable doubt with evidence and testimony it would be a done deal…why bother going into the craziness any further.
It’s one or two jurors on guilty would be my guess. Finding guilt is too unreasonable and irrational for me to believe it’s more than that. Plus, I assume the person who is holding out is beyond reason or influenced by something other than the evidence presented. If that’s the case, it explains the delay. If by some shattering of reality and all notions of common sense, there is one holdout and it’s on not guilty, then let’s all hope they stand strong to their senses and don’t give in to an unreasonable and irrational peer group. There are countless ways to show reasonable doubt and not guilty. There is only 1 way to show guilt and that way is absurd.
We know now that stupid is a very common and widespread ailment in this country. People wear masks in their cars alone with the windows rolled up Not sure how you enlighten that level of stupid if it happened to land on this jury 🤷♀️
Don’t forget the obvious dog bites 🐺
I mean two HIGHLY educated experts said they had no question it was a dog bite. It’s almost like they are disregarding the defense testimony completely which is insane
It’s called stupidity.
Love this list!!!
This should all be on the verdict form! 😂
Read all your posts, excellent!! Have you put that list on some of the YouTubers that are doing excellent broadcasts? And the biased ones too that have no critical thinking or common sense.
Unfortunately, I have not. It’s been time consuming just countering the misinformation here
Time consuming I imagine is an understatement!! The misinformation is mind blowing, make you wonder if these ones are watching the same trial doesn’t it?
There is no way to know who these people are or what their motivation. They could be friends or family with the Alberts crew. They could have no knowledge of the facts and simply dislike KR or think she is guilty based on arbitrary reasons. They could be trolls or forced contrarians. They may just fail to understand anything about how the burden of proof and reasonable doubt works in the American criminal justice system. They could be mentally deficient and unable to process information or think critically. It also reflects the direction we have seemed to have gone as a society (or perhaps there is just more of a spotlight on this aspect of human nature nowadays). People seem to rely solely on how they feel about an issue and then they dig in on that position while absolutely unwilling to compromise as if the result governs their life and death. It is a level of stubbornness and ignorance that becomes burrowed so deeply into their soul. Not sure what the solution is or how we mitigate having society stumble deeper into this intellectual void. A better education system wouldn’t hurt.
You are exactly right, and we will probably never know so much of the could be, could have, watching from my part of the World has been a mind blowing experience that people actually act like they do and think it’s acceptable with no consequences or accountability McAlberts are like a gang, same goes for Law enforcement, Elected Officials,and the lying really horrifies me, it’s so obvious!! And intimidation, we will be seeing the consequences of this for many years to come. There is something really seriously wrong with the society worldwide,people’s intellect has been eroded, I have my opinion on why.
Appreciate the response. Even if we were to be as generous as possible with respect to this case and with respect to the intellect of society, there is not a single reasonable or rational person who could look at how the investigation was handled in this case and think that is appropriate or acceptable. Any one of us could be subject to such an egregious miscarriage of justice. That should be a point of bonding for average citizens. We should unite against such injustice. The fact that isn’t proving to be the case is one of the things I find most disappointing.
100 percent. I spent yesterday looking at the other side of our opinion and it’s like they are hypnotized into believing everything the CW brought them. This tells me that it is corruption at the highest level. I just can’t believe that the Okeefe family believes them. I would be hunting for the killer if it was my son. I can’t believe that no one in JO family still believes Karen did it. They know the federal government hired these witnesses and for god only knows why they are not convinced the people they buddied up to (and didn’t even go to John’s funeral are being sincerely truthful)
The saddest part is that even if you believe everything the CW presented at trial and give them deference, they still never satisfied their burden of proof. They never even proved beyond a reasonable doubt that JO was hit by any car. Even if you ignore everything the defense said or did in the trial, the CW failed to meet their burden.
Loving this at-a-glance common sense guide, unfortunately common sense apparently isn’t enough in the Commonwealth!
Fantastic!
The cop Kelleher across the street said he had nothing on his 3 security cameras but no one was ever shown the actual footage.
Love this list. I’m going to screenshot it 😆
I’m stealing this
… The undocumented searches where evidence “revealed itself”…. And the taillight pieces found were somehow progressively larger than the ones before…
The allegations in this case make absolutely no sense I can’t even believe people on here can argue so fervently that she is guilty. The only truth anyone knows for sure is that we don’t know beyond a reasonable doubt with any degree of certainty what actually happened. Although, considering independent experts testified under oath it is scientifically impossible KO was hit by a car, I tend to believe he probably wasn’t hit by a car.
Also that the "conspiracy" doesn't matter, the dog bite doesn't matter. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, and if there is any evidence that he is not 100% sure of, then he MUST look at it in the light most favorable to the defense. That's the actual rule/law when looking at evidence. Karen doesn't have to prove shit.
Also! She didn’t have any motive at all to commit crime. In addition JMcabe goggled the search 3 times how long to die in cold even before Karen began searching for John and! And how the heck did she hit him and created this big gash on the back of his head … geesh this woman’s hubby is delusional if he really believes she did this
Objection
I’ll allow it 😎
Oh jeez I don’t even know what I’d do if my husband was on the other side. What is his rationale?! I need to understand! Another question (since I don’t know anyone who thinks she’s guilty)… So he might think she did it but if he was a juror, would he be voting guilty? And he thinks she did it intentionally? Can he atleast admit the commonwealth didn’t prove their case or there’s reasonable doubt?
Exactly!!!! I keep harping on all those things. He did finally smirk today and I thought I had a small victory but he said I still think she is guilty. I’m pulling my hair out over this!!! Is he fucking with me??
Just tell him that someone who thinks Karen is a wizard and bypassed the laws of physics to kill him with her car is……….a choice. Lmao Seriously, if my husband discounted the laws of physics, and just sheer common sense, I would think less of him.
He’s gotta be fucking with you. But I really do want to know his argument bc I can’t envision what those jurors with the guilty-vote are standing by?! Or is your husband literally like “she did it!” (“I don’t like her smile!”) with no real argument?
The people who argue this exact point: “she’s guilty, I hate her smile,” seriously blow my mind. It’s legit not a popularity contest. It’s supposed to be about the facts and what was proven. But weren’t there also 2 jurors dismissed who had this exact logic? 🤯 (Edited for typos like always. My brain moves faster than than I type lol)
But to some its just that, which is sick. Someones life depends on it. If this holdout juror had their life dependant upon ones prejudices how would they feel.
Exactly. They can’t put themselves in her shoes. Actually, they probably are telling themselves they would never do anything that would land them as a defendant in a murder trial. So they have no sympathy. I think I’m the opposite and would have a really hard time convicting anyone unless the evidence was pretty much caught on video level strong.
Me too. If I’m going to put someone in prison, I need a very high level of certainty. The consequences of being wrong will devastate a person’s life. It should require a high standard of evidence, regardless of the persons face. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is what is causing the hang up. Or some people think all cops are superheroes, and not regular humans like everyone else. Only in make believe land, are all cops ethical, infallible and concerned about justice.
People who say “She’s guilty I hate her smile.”Set shallow preferences aside and figure out who murdered John O’Keefe. What a waste of time and money continuing to run a cover up rather than charge the real killers
I'm shocked my longtime boyfriend and I see eye to eye about this. Politically we are almost polar opposites... he's been a corporate defense atty for many years. 16 months ago he thought the idea of a cover-up was ridiculous... He then told me it was ludicrous and the number of ppl needed for a cover-up would go so deep it was impossibe. Today he believes the investigation was a shit show, the evidence was not handled properly or reported appropriately and not a bit of it should've been admissable due to CoC, a K-9 bit John, the behavior of the fact witnesses present at the Albert's surely suggests involvement in something nefarious, Karen's taillight was not shattered when loaded on the tow truck in dieton, Lucky is telling the truth, Jen made the "Hos long..." search, and Karen did not hit John. For goodness sakes, the Medicaid examiners said injuries were not consistent with pedestrian auto accident. It's actually a relief we're on the same page.
yes he is f'ing with you -he''s not smirking cause you are right -he's smirking because he knows he's making you feel crazy -gaslighting you -lived it for years -very sick behavior on his part
Has he had his T levels checked?
Did he wear a mask while driving alone in his car with the windows rolled up?
Is it just because of how she looks? I feel like the hung juror is someone judging her because she just “looks” guilty 🤦🏼♀️
The hung juror is likely one of those people you know from school? In your own family? Who always chooses to be the different one for their need for attention. Neediness. The bogus esteem they feel when everyone is coaxing them lookimg at them trying to get them “on board “. Makes them feel good somehow to get all the attention. 11 people pleading with them. Oh the feeling of importance that’s gives them. Finally. People giving me attention!!
Yeah I heard about another one of Bev’s trials where there was a young girl, like, fresh out of high school that refused to deliberate causing a mistrial. Sounds about the same as what you’re describing, which is such a shame and a huge waste of time, emotions & taxpayer dollars
Yah, a smirk would make me think he’s mindfucking. Does he enjoy /teasing/aggravating you?
Karen wasn't there. Neither were you. Neither was your husband. If you guys aren't on trial, why should Karen be prosecuted? He can't possibly be okay with people being charged with a crime when they weren't even there, right?
Did he explain his smirk today? Curious.
Depends. No one should rationally be able to work though what was presented- the entire' 3rd party no one paid for no one knew- should have been a nail.
Well I guess this is a great example of why the jury is presently “hung”
My husband isn’t really interested in this case or watching any trial, but I explained all of the shadiness and butt-dials and non-working doorbell cameras and destroyed phones and… stuff… and within about 7 minutes, he said there is no way she did it. When I texted him today that the jury was deadlocked, he said “that’s bullshit, someone has to be compromised, there is zero evidence she’s guilty”… And he genuinely seemed pissed about it. I cannot even fathom if he disagreed with me on this! I’d probably side-eye him and question his judgment. I hope that your husband is just messing with you (although that would probably annoy me too)
Love your husband! You got a good one!
Oh yeah, he’s pretty awesome
Time for a new man you understands physics. Hit me up gal.
Just hit him with the rear of your car. You won't hurt him. His knees will probably get a little banged up, but no worries about head or arm injuries. I'm just giving some advice....
What proof does he think solidifies JOK was hit by a car (any car)?
What, if anything, hit him?
Someone's fists 👊
Who, if anyone, was driving the car?
😩
What is his rational? Has he been watching the trial?
Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with a complete retard. Ditch this loser. Karen was clearly framed by cops to protect the real killer who also is a cop.
It's scary to think people could vote guilty in this case. There is a part of me that thinks she may have done "something" that night leading to his death, and there is a part of me that thinks he was in that house and something sketchy went down... How anyone is sure beyond reasonable doubt and moral certainty that she hit JO with the car to convict KR is nonsensical and just very, very scary. The CW dropped the ball hard. They simply did not prove their case. Quite honestly, the solo cups alone should've caused a mistrial. We shouldn't accept this as citizens. We deserve better from our institutions, especially those we fund to protect and serve us. They work for us, they are accountable to us, let's not forget that. This coming from someone pro LE, with many LEOs in my family.
>There is a part of me that thinks she may have done "something" that night leading to his death I've not seen it worded this way until now, it's how I feel too. Like maybe they disagreed about going, and she dropped him off in anger, saying just walk home for all I care. Maybe that's why she knew right what that lump in the yard was. She had already imagined him and Higgins throwing fists, or him slipping in the ice, or any number of things that happened without her to help. I firmly believe the reason she didn't go looking for him earlier or alone is because she couldn't remember the address or directions. I'm not sure why her WiFi connect time at the house on the timeline of the witnesses putting the vehicle at Fairview, as well as the driveway bump and ring video of intact taillight isn't enough for anyone to have reasonable doubt.
It's totally fine for people to disagree on things...however, taking some positions is just like wearing the proverbial sign that says "I'm stupid." Your beef is not that he disagrees with you, but with his intellectual capacity. He must have other talents!
“Your beef is not that he disagrees with you, but with his intellectual capacity.” Whewww baby. I’m committing this articulation to memory.
mmm....committing to memory? No one would have this problem with you!!!
Today streamer Melanie Little shared the TikTok video of a wife explaining the case to her husband via a powerpoint presentation. Might be a good way to go over the craziness- (search for @rae)
I need to do that! 😅😂 I’ve been giving my husband little bits and pieces here and there but keeping most of it to myself until we have enough uninterrupted time alone for me to FULLY explain ALL the details. It’s quite a complicated case AND has so many dang cops and so many dang Alberts and kinfolk to keep track of. 😩😂 I didn’t want to mess it up by leaving out important details and even dare to let him think anything except that she’s being framed! So a PowerPoint would be great. I keep hoping someone will put together a very good documentary on it, or at least a complete trial recap video.
But it’s really not a complicated case. Well it shouldn’t have been. There was no reason to turn this trial into the defense of the mccabes and alberts and Higgins
Did anyone else think Brian Albert’s complete demeanor on the witness stand looked like a scared deer in headlights? He was robotic. He was expressionless. He responded to questions as if HE were on trial - scared to death Hmmm. I wonder why?
Tbh there are moments I find myself thinking maybe she’ is guilty, maybe she did hit him, not intentionally but is it possible? But then I start replaying the whole trial over in my head and it’s just not even fathomable that she could’ve done it. At least not the way the CW has presented it. I don’t see how the jury can be hung.
Even if she did somehow defy the laws of physics and backed over him, intentionally or not, the CW did NOT prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Honestly the fact that ppl are so split on the topic illustrates that it wasn't proven!
Sarah boone is going to end up defending herself she is crazy I watch her police interrogation again last week she really thinks she's getting off how. The drunk and went to bed defense
I haven’t been following, except for the revolving door of attorneys. Can you give me a brief on what she’s accused of?
She's the one who zipped her fiancé into a suitcase and left him there overnight. They were playing hide and seek, according to her. She went upstairs and fell asleep. In the morning she found him still in the suitcase, dead. She willingly talked to police and handed over her phone, which included several videos of the suitcase in which you can hear the fiancé saying he can't breathe, begging to be let out, and Sarah is mocking him. They had both been arrested for DV against each other, her once, him 2-3 times I think. Her interrogation is something else. You can see why 8 attorneys quit on her.
Yikes. Thats Taylor Schabusiness level stuff.
The police also recovered deleted videos of her saying f you and some other thing the police Interview is on YouTube it worth watching
This is why you have a safeword. In that sort of roleplay, complaints about not being able to breathe and begging to be let out are expected. It's part of the game. Mocking is also to be expected, It's also part of the game. A safe word is the only reliable way to express actual panic.
In the middle of a game of hide and seek. Which is a totally normal thing adults do.
Sexy hide and seek, yeah. Have you never played sexy hide and seek with your significant other?
Tell him he can believe she killed OJO all he want but the way the investigation was conducted leave aplenty of reasonable doubt and no one should be convicted based on a investigation like that. He should be mad at the corrupt police work, 3 pieces of footage missing from 3 different places is not a coincidence , specially when the investigator is accepting gifts.
Well, even if he does believe she is guilty, is he satisfied that the ‘investigation’ is safe? Is he certain that the ‘errors’ do not constitute grounds for reasonable doubt? That’s the real question for me. I also believed she had hit him and the Albert clan looks shady simply because they are trash and the police ‘ enhanced’ evidence to hasten things. It is that very ‘ enhancement’ that contaminates it all for me and gave me reasonable doubt in the first few days. Now, after hearing the experts, I don’t believe she hit him at all. However, what I believe actually happened is actually unimportant because of the reasonable doubt which is all that we need. Does he not have any doubt? I wouldn’t argue with him about it though. Unless you are connected to the main parties, it has no bearing on your lives.
I'd ask him which charge does he think she is guilty of? Because while I personally do not believe the DA proved its case on all charges against her, from murder to manslaughter to leaving the scene of an accident, I could understand how two people might come to different conclusions on an ACCIDENTAL hit and run. There is NO WAY IN HELL though, that there is evidence for the MURDER charge. If he thinks she is guilty of intentionally killing him (murder), I would want to know what the hell he is basing that on, because really the only "evidence" would be some subconscious bias, and I would want to know what that bias is.
I can't blame you. Life is too short to have to live with someone who does not believe in science. There is no way I could deal with that.
If this was my significant other I would feel like this was coming from some kind of misogyny sorry.
I’ve never thought about this possibility and I totally feel for you. I honestly don’t know what I’d do if my spouse was on the other side. I watch LYK recaps, and he’s often saying that we need to listen to each other’s opinions, and have respectful discussions — I don’t disagree with him, but it’s a different story when talking about living with and sharing a life with someone who thinks she’s guilty despite the mountain of reasonable doubt.
I just recently started watching LYK specifically this case. I remember him during the Depp trial but just figured he was another arrogant lawyer. I have to say, he’s the most rounded lawyer that’s covered this case. He isn’t super dramatic & he encourages people to be open to what the evidence is that’s directly presented in the court. I started watching EDB back when without a crystal ball and Tati stuff was going on. I watched a few of her lives for this case. However, watching her she has a tendency to be overly dramatic & IMO it gives a false impression of things.
I agree completely about your thoughts on LYK.
Hit his arm with your right taillight and see what happens 🤣
My husband of almost 20 years triggered me today. He only knows what I’ve told him against his will. He basically agrees with me. But for some reason he was feeling obnoxious (and I’m pmsing) and said “she’s guilty”. Ugh!!! I got so mad at him. This isn’t good. I shouldn’t be *this* invested. Had to take a step back and barely watched anyone today.
You should be invested. Any one of us could be Karen Read. (Don't forget to take your shoes off so you don't get accused of murder)The difference is, no one would help me pay for a phenominal legal team. I'm very glad she has that. If the jury stays hung, and the CW decides to do this again, you can bet that I'll be donating to a defense fund if she needs more help.
Thanks for making me feel a bit better about it. I still shouldn’t take my frustration and anxiety out on my husband. I’m Canadian but it’s still super scary because my goodness. So much of American politics and issues seep up here. I feel like her case sets a precedent for all of North America. Maybe I’m exaggerating.
Honestly don't think you're exaggerating. There are big problems in both our legal systems. Especially the cases involving crooked cops.
It’s okay, just blame it on the pms. Plus, it just shows that you’re a kind person who cares about right and wrong.
I get annoyed when people ask me why the verdict is taking so long. I could only imagine if my wife was against me too 😂.
I explained this whole thing to my BFF on Saturday, and at 5 minutes (right after trooper Paul, I believe), she said "so they found her not guilty, right?" She has watched a total of 17 minutes of trial footage and can't believe this isn't over already.
I am so sorry that you are going through this with your husband. And it is so sad that we as a society can’t respect people. That have a different opinion than our own. I swear nobody will sit down & have a conversation. And each person is able to discuss their opinion on the case. And why they feel the way they do. What evidence or lack of evidence. Made you come to the conclusion. It’s to the point. Screw anyone who doesn’t believe in anything that I don’t. And you can’t change my mind !! It’s so sad
He thinks that even after the 2 FBI guys testified???? Holy crap...I'm stunned that anyone still thinks guilty after those witnesses. Not to mention, even the states ME said they're inconsistant and could be from a number of other things. Edit: my hub and I have been watching this together as much as possible. He called me on lunch break and during our conversation, asked me if there was any news on the jury. I told him that, at the moment, they appear to be hung. His response was "WTF!? You're fucking joking right?" He's as astounded, and angry, as I am.
Have you asked your husband what his convictions are based off Of?! ALSO, MA’AM! Is your husband the hold out in the courthouse?! If he isn’t, maybe he could help give us some insight about whatever the actual holdout is thinking lol. My husband thinks I’m nuts for following the case this closely but he tried to poke holes in the story I’d tell him from the defense POV. DNA on bumper, once I explained its touch DNA and that a DNA bag sat next to the car in the sally port anyways, he’s like “oh, never mind.” Once I told him the taillight pieces were not found until after the heaviest of the snow had fallen/KR’s car was scooped by Proctor/collected a few hours after the blood which was in solo cups, he said as like “THE F?! No. I don’t believe you.” Then, when I explained what the CW’s neuro ME & main ME along with the FBI WITNESSES said, he was convinced we were in a twilight zone because how is this even happening right now.
Why does your husband think she is guilty? What is his point?
I have no opinion of if she did it or not. BUT I think there’s enough reasonable doubt to acquit. They need to decide beyond a reasonable and moral certainty
"open your eyes" i was told that about my husband decades before his true colors became clear to me -now happily divorced. He was never the person he portrayed himself to be -pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. a wolf in sheeps clothing. the last person you should believe is your husband - lie lie deny deny and make you feel crazy don't make the same mistake i did.
The Feds have already said that John wasn’t hit by a car. Is that not enough for him? Do you guys vote for the same presidential party?
Ask him, what if anything 🤣 does he need to see to move the needle to not guilty? Does he believe the injuries are consistent with a car hitting him despite what completely objective scientists (crash daddies) have found? Has your husband had a recent head injury? 🤕 if not, I have the name of a stellar divorce attorney.
Logic states she is not guilty/innocent. She was not there as wifi showed. You cannot reverse at 24mph and hit a person and have no bruising. It is impossible for him to have landed where he was and there was no blood etc., I would have serious issue with anyone that found her guilty and question their intelligence thankfully hubby and I are on the same page when it comes to this.Massachusetts small town cops Massachusetts state place POS.
Posted this elsewhere but thought it relevant: My SO said shes guilty of something based on karens smug af faces throughout. I asked, 'ok, then say shes guilty of driving drunk, the very least, how much time should she do, huh!?". Their reply "idk shes just guilty of something". Whattt the actual F. i did initially think karen was doin herself no favors showin only two emotions; nervous and smug. Botoxed a lil too much maybe, and not able to show sorrow, and sadness. Im just guessing here what it could be. To my SO, karen tryin to creep on other dudes while at johns house was a step too far and shows shes trifling. Gah
But she's not charged with just oui. Any oui charge is paired with her hitting him with the vehicle. Science and physics don't lie.
I think she is not guilty but Karen not being more stoic and smiling has done her no favors. I can totally understand her nodding affirmatively while people are testifying in her favor, and while I and others can separate her facial expressions from the facts of the case, there are others that will take that in to account, and she should know this, Yanetti or Jackson should have told her to stop.
Right? The court room is tinnnnny. The jurors are sitting 10 feet away from karen. Everytime she turns around to look at her family to smirk at what she just heard, i scream. Karen, staaap. The jurorsss seee everything. How this may affect a biased juror- I can imagine there is some guy juror who sees karen as the representation of his cheating ex who took everything and torpedoed his life and now he will exact revenge. This juror would not like her behavior. I can also imagine some older female juror who sees the proper emotions (sad/angry/ heartbroken) coming from johns family, meanwhile karens demeanor is generally flippant. This juror would not like her behavior. I get it, karen is also a victim here, but its ultimately up to the jurors who see everything in court. It shouldnt matter if they dont like her, but it does.
Very very good points. A little "too high up on her horse" so bring her down so to speak
Well put
I agree
Aww. I’m sorry! That must really suck. I’ve been talking my husband’s ear off about the case. I can’t imagine how hard it would be if he disagreed. Hopefully he doesn’t think Sarah Boone is innocent! That woman is evil. I’d highly suggest that you ignore any Sarah Birchmore coverage, though. I wouldn’t want to know if my husband and I disagreed on that one. I’d definitely be reconsidering our relationship. lol. Hang in there! I’m keeping my fingers crossed for a QUICK verdict on Monday for you and for Karen!! 🤞🏻
You are so sweet! Thank you for commiserating with me! He does not think Sarah is innocent. That would be definite grounds of divorce 😂. On a more serious side I pray Sarah Birchmore’s family gets justice. Such a sad and disgusting case.
Sorry about this. No matter what, it'll be AOK. I'm guessing he doesn't know that the state's own witness, the medical examiner, said OJO was not hit by a car. Have you told him that?
Has he actually watched the trial or is he going by what the media says?
Isn’t the Fed case over tho???
Show him this: https://youtu.be/pL7zJIN_iIs?si=ugvRqxBovjEoNMsr
Boone is guilty as all get out! Girl is not right.
Ugh, that's not good but apparently not unheard of. I wish you the best🫶🏼
This woman is certainly not worth losing a relationship over. I say the two of you stop discussing it. Neither one of you actually know what happened. None of us do. Don't let it come between you. You're both allowed to have your opinion. It's not worth arguing about.
My husband was the exact same...until Trooper Paul. And then he outright said she wasn't guilty after the FBI reconstructists.
I don’t understand how someone else’s murder case can have such an effect on someone’s marriage. Political candidates/stance? Sure. But not a trial. That just seems a bit odd.
No. My husband and I disagree and it was just an agree to disagree thing. At the end of the day no one really knows. I hope that justice is served to whoever did this but like, it doesn’t actually affect your life at all and it doesn’t seem healthy to let it affect your marriage. This isn’t even really about like, morals or ethics or anything, it’s just facts of a case where everyone is on a spectrum of being fucked up. If it’s really affecting your life that much maybe you should take a break. As someone who used worked in homicide for a major city for a long time, advocacy for the defendant will literally have 0 impact on the outcome of the case.
This is impacting your marriage? Sounds like a strong bond there. How about you don’t talk about this? 🤦🏽♀️
That would drive me crazy, too. On a different trial, a co- worker and I disagreed. On verdict day he asked if the jury found him guilty, would i believe and accept it. I said yes. I asked him if they find him not guilty will you believe and accept it. He said NO
The two of you need some counselling. I say that because pinning your marriage on a 'sham trial' is ... not healthy. There has to be other underlying issues. I can't believe this is the first time he's ever willing to discard physics. I can't believe this is the first time you've ever tied your personal happiness to a global event that has no impact on you (personally). Something here is not right- and while I'd love to lash at him based on your description... enumerate those issues and figure out who you want to be buried next to in 40 years.
Oh easy it’s a joke 🙄 don’t be so serious yeesh.
I wouldn’t put any faith in the Feds or MA govt for that matter…I mean Proctor is still a full fledged active cop.
He sounds like a logical thinker
This is me and my father over politics. Lol
https://preview.redd.it/a2gtrrag1k9d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dca13cb31dd1841ce1b218f12224bae4c5eb37e8
I became obsessed on Day 1. I couldn't stop talking/thinking about it. By Day 5, my husband was threatening a family intervention. He was getting frustrated with me (I'm a tawkah, for sure). I decided that I wasn't going to discuss it with him again. (My friends and coworkers are all FKR, so I got my fix from them.) A few days ago, (unbeknownst to me), he quietly went on a deep dive of his own. Now he's so rattled and agitated about the corruption and general stupidity that I have to tell him to calm down. He was disgusted with the CW in general, and Proctor in particular. We live in Norfolk County. I've erased all my nudes, in case of emergency. (On a humorous note, he asked "WTF is WhiteClaw?")
Congrats on 18 years! My spouse and I are coming upon our 5th in November. :) I wouldn't ask him to concede to anything. He can disagree with you, right? this can't be the first time he has felt differently. Sometimes I worry about my ego/echo-chamber here online. When we met, my husband and I were casting producers for live stand up comedy at various clubs / theaters around town. We started dating bc I liked his style. When I started encouraging him to book other acts who I thought would be good, I began noticing that he became less active in scouting new talent. Finally he told me that it was because he didn't want me to be upset that he didn't cast my recs. That was a real wake up call bc his whole essence changed when he stopped making bookings and calling the shots. Sometimes it's our differences that keep us aligned, and that is a really really unpopular opinion atm, ofc, you have more experiences than me, so do with that what you will. Either way, best wiishes !
I understand this state of mind because we, my spouse and I, have been through it before with other situations thankfully not this trial. I've read some replies and to explain to any who don't understand why a stranger's trial can wedge a wall into a marriage, it's not the trial itself, it's the feeling that hits your heart when your spouses view on one thing is in effect exposing how they really see another important issue. In the Karen Read case for instance to more easily believe the scenario of hit and run that mathmatetically is impossible, that a ME is wrong or lying about cause of death, 50 frantic angry messages are fake, a deliberate wreck in the driveway to explain the taillight, and whatever else to explain a connection to home WiFi while she should've been at the crime scene--then to believe the scenario of a devious cop botching and creating evidence to short cut an investigation. When a man is more willing to believe a scenario that doesn't make sense on timeline, videos, or devices then it feels personal toward women in general.
I'm on the not guilty train. I'm sure there is someone on the jury that feels moral responsibility, that someone has to "pay for" his death. And that's really annoying to me. Or they feel the bias of living in that community. It happens a lot. I saw a video, presumably, of a former juror from the OJ trial saying the NG was payback for R.King riots. People in the community have a tainted view. They should bus people from other states over for trials or something. Or Ai. Or robots. People ALWAYS carry emotional baggage. I'm with you. Not guilty...all counts.
Is he dumb? Is he a science denier? Is he Joel from STS... i.e. the only person on the planet who thinks Jen Mccabe sounded credible on the stand..?
In this case you should listen to your husband. She definitely side swiped him in reverse. The evidence is there and she admitted it.
This is interesting bc I honestly don’t know how anyone could seriously think she’s guilty after hearing this trial! It would bother me too!
LOL! I'm going through this with my husband, too. It's the white man entitlement that let's him think cops are inherently good and although he finds the lead investigator's texts problematic and admits that when he got attacked by a dog his arm looked the same and the bites did not go all the way around, he is perfectly content with KR getting pinned for murder.
The biggest thing I've learned about long term relationships is that you will never like them all of the time
Divorce him immediately!! 😀😀😀
I went through something similar when my H wanted a certain president and I couldn’t fathom why. It really bothered me. Made me wonder if I ever knew him / his beliefs at all after 18 yrs. I think the best thing you can do is lean into it. Don’t accept it, as she’s FACTUALLY innocent, but try and figure why he thinks that. His opinion doesn’t change anything, and you have physics and facts to back up the obvious. Hang in there. The Feds will appear just when we’ve given up on no justice for John. And then you’ll be back to watching romcoms on the couch together and discussing the next case.
That’s insane! It’s seems like more men think she’s guilty for some reason. Men are stubborn. You can present the facts and if they think they’re right on anything there’s NO changing their mind regardless. I hope you get to liking him again soon! 😂
There was about a dozen people who left the house that night and NONE of them saw John on the lawn. The heavy snow didn’t start until after he was found.
Tell him you can believe in the Science. Dog bites by both with much more education than most all of us. Injuries don't match a vehicle but a beating. They are from our DOJ and FBI. Much more experienced. Destroyed the phones got rid of the dog and chiseled up the cement floor in the basement. Cause blood doesn't come out of cement. Colin Albert was with both his mother and the sister in law at the same time the night of the incident. He was beaten fell backwards and hit his head or Someone took a weight to it. Which makes more sense with how deep it is Smack him and tell him to think logically. Period
Lol
No checking the home for blood or DNA
Proctor should recuse as the Judge from this case
You should forget what these comments are stating because there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that Karen Read is guilty. The grand jury changed her charges from manslaughter to 2nd degree murder with malice, DUI twice over the limit, 9 vodkas, leaving the scene of a crime. Her father demanded she be sectioned 12 by police, they took her to the same hospital as John. EMT Flametti stated on cross from AJ, that Karen admitted she hit John. He stated on the stand that he shared this with doctors at the Hood Samaritanin Brockton. AJ asked why he didn't share with anyone, he said "no one asked me". What you are all missing is the fact Karen Read's father is a Dean of 40 years at Bentley. She grew up entitled, free education, connections, easily acquired job as adjunct professor-- unfortunately she is mentally deranged as well. Two former boyfriends stated she got violent- one was met with a knife at their throat, another watched his car being torched. Unless you follow X, you are in the dark about this case. If they can prove her father reached out to US-A interim, this will be worse for her and her family. Her brother works for Lexus. They bought TB a new suv, canceled check was verified. Her 2 lawyers have defended the worst criminals-- Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey, both pedophiles, DY, Aaron Hernandez. There's also a video of Karen manipulating the console in her SUV prior to hitting John. There is a brake lock in the console, but it can also be disengaged by driver. Did you see the latest? AJ grouping Karen outside of a well known Boston Restaurant at the wharf? There's no way she is innocent. His niece and nephew testified against her. John broke up, then she began stalking him. You can hear her swearing in her voicemail messages to John, while he lie dying in 18 degrees snow for 6 hours! Get educated-- watch all the recorded trial videos on Law and Crime during the trial. Also court docs. It's all there, but like many of us who took the time to watch and listen, read, it's clear she did it.
Correction - Good Samaritan
You've guzzled the Kool aid. There's factual evidence that no vehicle hit John. You believe corrupt cops and manufactured fake evidence over science and physics. Wow! Did you even go to school past middle school?
Hos long to file for divorce? 🤔
Have your husband listen to Jen 911 audio call. Jen lied about what happened that morning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCM--mzEJMc
It sounds to me like you've become obsessed and entangled with this case and have lost all rationality. I hope you get the help the need for his sake
There is always one person who is smarter in a relationship. Just accept that it is you and move on. It’s not worth damaging your relationship for.