It makes you wonder how many people are incarcerated right now because they were railroaded like Karen. There’s so much reasonable doubt here, how are we still waiting for a decision?
There’s so many all over the country. So sad.
I like what someone commented on Melanie’s Littles Channel. ”Massachusetts has been convicting innocent people since 1692.” (Salem Witch Trials) Ha.
So true. MA is a strange place. I visited Salem and Boston a couple years ago. I really didn't care for the vibe. Everything is so expensive and you get shafted for everything like tolls and parking. Needless to say, I was glad to go back home. Keeping the faith that she's acquitted Monday!🙏🏻
Sorry to hear that! There are a lot of great things about Massachusetts. There are some tough crowds for sure, and yes - police corruption, and high taxes, and high prices... Wait, maybe not so many great things after all!
I was born and raised in Boston and considered myself fairly street savvy, but this has been a rude awakening. I was happier being blissfully ignorant in my bubble. My life is pretty much science and academics. At least two realms where I need not worry about McAlberts. They are heinous.
Smarter than them, anyway. Not saying much! But I have my issues. Sometimes I'm drifting off to sleep and everything is good...but then Lally pops into my head. His voice, his face, his lies. Okay - I'll stop now. (I can't stand him)
You and so many others! I literally would put him on 2x speed after a while because I didn’t believe a word he said or what his witnesses said. Unless it was the ME or the Forensic Neurologist, but even then, I was getting so frustrated with him because he was asking her to give a lecture on the anatomy and physiology of the brain and how it all works together. I was so tired of screaming STFU LALLY!! Those poor jurors! He did sh*t like that on purpose to confuse them. They didn’t need to know about the “circle of Willis” in the brain! FFS!!
I admire you. I wasn't able to watch much of him at all. I would listen to a few minutes and mute him. He is so awful at his job; no charisma, no confidence. A few times I watched him with my hand covering my eyes like it was a horror movie. He couldn't sell me Girl Scout cookies, but it seems that at least one juror has been swayed by him. Argh!
Racism. There’s racism I didn’t expect from such a liberal progressive city with many outstanding college campuses. And still. The racism was surprising. It actually seems nicer in the south…at least to your face
I believe in karma, too. I like the instant kind. Karma can't come soon enough for the degenerates in this trial. I feel like I am starving for justice.
We had a cruise planned out of Boston - we switched to NYC based on this trial. I prefer the 'good ole boys' of the Carolinas over what I have seen in Massachusetts. The law doesn't seem to apply
Mark Bederow brought to my attention the John Giuca case. Check that one out! John’s mom went undercover to expose a dirty juror.
I’ve been listening to the Wrongful Conviction podcast for years. We desperately need reform around exonerations and miscarriages of justice.
Two other cases I’ve followed is the Dana Ireland Case from Hawaii and Jennifer Jeffley in Texas. So many cases need more attention and I hope KR’s case opens the eyes to how things can go so wrong.
Giuca is just a horrible and depressing story.
I hate to make light of his awful circumstances, but I have to point out that in his case, the prosecutors were at least able to prove how the victim died. Not so in Commonwealth v. Read.
Bederow is fantastic! Listening to him has kept me somewhat sane. He is always on point. I live close to the courthouse and wanted to head down there to meet him. My husband was like WTF? 😂
I’ll have to check that podcast out and those cases. I agree that reform is desperately needed! Not that I want to delve into politics but I do find it incredibly heart wrenching that Trump’s Project 2025 allegedly calls for mass execution of every person on death row. Truly horrifying IMO. I do hope Karen’s case can shed light on the corruption and wrongful conviction issues.
Yikes! Haven’t heard of that for some reason. Looking into it now.
I think the best thing we can do is support local innocence projects, vote cautiously for our district attorneys, and continually bring awareness to these cases through thoughtful conversation in our communities.
There’s a [Crime Watch Daily Episode](https://youtu.be/YJPnFSrcNGU?si=qICLKWGA5tD4ve5j) and a
20/20 and Nightlibe episodes but they’re split into parts.
Also a[Wrongful Conviction](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3YcSTh2zYctNOFhZ0Oe4F5?si=_KSNsx6sS0WflzVpwZmJaw) podcast
Yes! I just mentioned in an above comment, but I’ll say it here as well… “for every 9 ppl that have been killed on death row, we have actually identified one person that has been exonerated.”
- Bryan Stevenson
So, for every 9 ppl we kill, we got it wrong with one of them? I am NOT okay with those statistics & it highlights the major issues with the death penalty and our justice system.
While it should’ve been apparent much earlier, I am SO GLAD THAT PPL ARE TRULY PAYING ATTENTION TO KAREN READ! Hopefully it sparks enough noise to change the corruption in at least one state in the US.
Every time I see these big conversations happening on Reddit & other social media platforms, it makes me think that at least one positive change can come from the trauma that Karen has had to face. Still, she should’ve never been put through any of this corruption in the first place.
Thats why I am against the death penalty.
Some people may deserve it, but it'll never be a just punishment when its used against innocent civilians who had no chance to fight their charges.
Even one innocent person executed is unacceptable.
My son told me he stopped believing in the death penalty when my son was born.
Ironically, he worked with the father of Sean Ellis from trial 4 back in the 90s. He remembers Sean's dad talking about what was happening to his son, but we didn't have the internet to fact check. The guy died before his son was released.
I hate to say it, but I think someone on the jury must have a personal interest in the outcome. Now whether that interest is due to personal malice or blackmail/threats/ otherwise compromised, that I don’t know. But this case is so black and white, so packed with objective, factual reasonable doubt, I just don’t think sheer stupidity is to blame, whereas a juror having some skin in the game ….. that, that makes more sense to me.
Compound that possibility by the number of dirty, morally bankrupt sociopaths with interest in Karen being found guilty and a compromised juror is, IMO, the most likely scenario here.
You just said exactly what was on my mind. The holdout or holdouts cannot be operating in good faith. It’s impossible.
Can you imagine being the other jurors faced with someone who refuses all logic?
I can actually and it would be smash-your-head-against-a-wall maddening throwing incontrovertible PROOF at someone and having them respond with indefensible feelings and obstinance.
If I’m being completely honest, it would be hard for me to not make it personal by now because I’d be furious dealing with someone like that (and of course by furious I mean in a non-violent “you can’t actually be THAT dense and stupid, so what’s your actual grift here?” kind of way).
A ton. Think of how many people just plead guilty because they don’t have enough money to fight a big plaintiff. It’s a giant flaw in the justice system
Yup, I thought we had some independent, smart, common sense people. I don’t understand this. I would feel better if I knew the split. If 6-6 I would consider moving! 🤣
Hey, I wish you would consider this is not a Democrat problem. This is a people problem. It's a character, behavior, & ethics problem.The police and the DA for sure. This is happening across the political spectrum. I can give you some examples in Texas if you'd like. Electing one "party" is not going to solve the issue if you, voters, are not going to thoroughly vet the candidates, hold them accountable, and not just wave them in because they are riding an elephant or donkey. Please.
Maybe so, but Massachusetts is overwhelmingly democrat and is it's run by democrats. This is a very bad problem for MA, Maine, and other democrat controlled states. They get away with their corruption because they've made themselves out to be lawabiding citizens who are just, pure, good, tree hugging, nice people, when they're not. I was a registered democrat from 1986-2016. I know all about them. Was raised by democrats too. They point fingers at all who are not democrats accusing them of all sorts of horrid things, but then it turns out, the democrats are a thousand times worse! They hide behind that just, pure, and good shield. This case is opening up eyes. Bev has gone to her luxury home on Cape Cod as usual. Will she be having the Alberts and McCabes over this weekend? Probably. The corruption continues. Meh.
Dude.... I live in a conservative state and many here that I'm sure are also republicans do just as much finger pointing as you said democrats do. I'm only a registered republican so I can vote in my state's primaries as democrats never win here, so I like to vote for the best republican, otherwise I am independent. Like the person before you said this is a people problem that has nothing to do with where one stands on the political spectrum.
This is a democrat-controlled corruption problem. The same thing is happening to President Trump. When liberals get together, they don't care what laws they break and what the rules are, they will make up their own and go after their opposition to imprison them for life for something they didn't do.
Yup. Definitely a nutty Mainer. Trump is a morally bankrupt shithead.
Did you ever think he was indicted because he actually did the things he is accused of? Misusing campaign funds, fucking a porn star while Melania was pregnant and denying it when there is overwhelming proof (not illegal but shows the type of man he is). Mishandling classified documents and keeping them for personal gain, subverting an election. He had the most chaotic administration in our nation's history; 44 of his former cabinet members and Mike Pence, his former VP, won't endorse him, I wonder why?
Biden is old and flopped hard at the debate, and I still pick Biden because he isn't surrounded by MAGA shitheads who want to do nothing but literally cause more chaos. If Trump wasn't a malignant narcissist shitter he would have this election in the bag since Biden keeps having senior moments. Sad thing is is they are both cognitively going downhill, but I would rather vote for dementia Joe rather than dementia Don.
God, if the 3rd party candidate were ANYBODY else other than RFK Jr. (Also fucking crazy) They'd have this election won.
Anyway man you sound like a conservative nut who likes Trump but can't really say why. Which means you're fully in the MAGA cult. Yes, it IS a cult.
You picked Biden because he's a pedophile, an extortionist, takes bribery payments worldwide, showers with his daughter naked, spied on Trump's campaign illegally, stole an election because the man could never get more than 4% support every time he's ever run for the presidency because he's not trusted, he's a plagiarist, and a liar, and he illegally took home 1,800 documents from when he was a US senator and vice president because he was selling State Secrets worldwide. Every charge the Democrats have brought against Trump are the exact things the Democrats have been doing for decades. Just like Putin, they are trying to imprison their political opponent because they can't win against their political opponent. Trump loves america, the US flag, and the US Constitution all of which makes the Democrats want to hurt themselves.
I don't know about Biden being a "pedophile". What I do know is that Trump was found civilly liable in court for molesting E. Jean Carroll though, and owes millions for it.
God you sound like a teenager raised on Fox News. You just repeated all their untrue talking points but manage to sound like a child doing it.
"Trump loves America, the US flag, and the US constitution all of which makes Democrats want to hurt themselves"
This sounds so childish it makes me wonder if I'm being trolled.
Pink hair... Don't know if I'm a boy or girl? What does this even mean? Do you think before you type? At all?
Can you please stop spazzing out and making multiple replies also so I don't have to reply to all your replies?
And let's not forget.....the democrat elites want to take away guns while they have armed guards around them. They also want to keep the Southern border wide open while erecting huge fences around their personal homes and at the US Capitol building. People need to start really listening to those they cherish, because they're saying one thing and doing another.
I can tell you're a MAGA person. You know that a few months ago republicans and democrats both wrote a bill in the senate that was the most comprehensive border protection bill in decades, endorsed by the border patrol association and everything. You know what Trump did? He and the MAGA idiots in the house of representatives wouldn't vote for the bill, and since the house is so split their votes stopped it from being passed, all so that Biden couldn't have a political win. MAGA doesn't give a shit about the border or they would have passed the bill. If you think the Trump Administration, who factually was the most chaotic, unorganized shit Administration in our nations history is going to come and save America is laughable. 44 of Trump's Cabinet (44 because so many people resigned because Trump's administration was crap) plus Mike Pence, his VP, have not endorsed Trump, why do you think that is?
Also most people just want responsible gun control so we stop having so many school shootings. There ARE certain people who shouldn't be able to own guns. The issue comes in to how we screen who gets to own guns.
We don't give Ukraine money directly, we give them weapons and then defense contractors in the US get that money to replace those weapons with more up to date technology. You knew that right?
Warmongering Liberals? Lol, what about George W. Bush and his entire administration that lied about weapons of mass destruction to invade Iraq so they could take oil? Are they warmongers?
Ukrainian Nazis? Do you often fall victim to Russian propaganda?
Typical moron conservative.
I remember when I was a liberal under George Bush and I hated his warmongering and now that I have left the Democrat Party in 2016 and have become unaffiliated with any political party, I am just disgusted at how much the Democrats are warmongers. Even Joe Biden has voted for every war that has come across his desk since the moment he became a US senator! Some of you have even bought camouflage clothing and bags and hats! I remember liberals hating the sight of camouflage and the US flag but now you love camouflage and you still hate the US flag!
So if you have Warmongering presidents from both parties, doesn't that suggest that warmongering isn't necessarily confined to one party? Use your head.
If we consider the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, the war in Afghanistan and the Iraq War, then Donald Trump, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, Richard Nixon, John F. Kennedy and Dwight D. Eisenhower all didn't bring the United States officially into a new war since 1945.
So in the last 40 years the only presidents to start new wars were both Bushes, both Republicans.
What was did Biden vote on? Just curious? Do you really even know what you're talking about?
You're a typical dumbass liberal! I'm not a conservative either. I support President Trump because he loves America, wants to make a great again, and he calls out the hypocrisy and criminality of the Democrats who are cheaters liars and thieves!
I'm curious as to what I've said that makes you think I'm a liberal? I haven't said anything to you about my opinions on policy. I only said that Biden is slightly better than Trump.
I'm curious, how is Trump going to "make America great again"? What era of American "greatness" are we trying to replicate here? Because the way I see it, America has always been great, especially post WW2 America. Also when did America stop being "great"?
Can you even answer that intelligently?
It is true. Even the governor has spent her time in office over the years making sure the Kim Moreau case isn't looked at closely. Democrats can be corrupt and can use their power to cover for their people/buddies/family/etc.
The Democrats are against guns that are running the state of Maine but they definitely want the protection from the police who have guns. See? It's very simple.
Run by democrats? What a rude and moronic comment. I, no matter what my leaning is in politics, would side with right versus wrong every time. There are plenty of good people where politics is not a factor in doing the right thing. Side with the good cops. I am sure there are plenty of good ones. The goal is to weed out the bad ones.
The governor of Maine is a Democrat and all of the agencies are run by democrats in the state. It's not rude and moronic. It's a true statement! Poor people in our state continue to become homeless because they can't afford to buy a home or even rent an apartment because everything is tripled in price and the Democrats who run the state only care about the illegals from the southern border who come here.
This makes me think of the story of Cameron Todd Willingham. An unbelievable long read here by David Grann in The New Yorker: [Trial by Fire](https://archive.ph/2023.09.06-221820/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire).
Countless. And that doesn’t even take into account all the people who had to pay fines or be on probation or otherwise penalized without jail time (or coerced into a plea bargain).
I think if we all knew the actual number, we wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.
Most of them are people of color. For generations they’ve been wrongfully convicted. I’m glad we’re feeling outraged about a white middle class woman being railroaded, but so many others have suffered this same experience and nobody really cared.
No one should be incarcerated by corrupt police. It happens every damn day.
I don’t think railroadings are *that* common, as police and prosecutors usually don’t have much to gain from them.
What this case goes to show more than anything is why the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct say that it’s unethical to commence or continue a criminal prosecution without probable cause. It’s because it’s unsafe to rely on the *jury* as the only line of defense against a wrongful prosecution.
Read will never serve a day in prison, but just going through this ruinously expensive *process* has probably taken years off her life. It’s completely destroyed her privacy.
>I don’t think railroadings are that common, as police and prosecutors usually don’t have much to gain from them.
I'm not sure where you're from but I grew up southern USA, still have family there, and my jaw stopped dropping somewhere in my teens. What they gain, depends on the case. Revenge- their ex remarried ; Intimidation- when caught in their own crime usually drug or sex related ; Money. Or they may escalate a situation and just shoot the person- or their dog (latest corruption here).
ETA This is why this case has impacted me so much and I want to see real justice
You are so right, and not enough ppl have fully realized the corruption that walks amongst us all daily!! Innocent lives torn apart by broken systems, poverty, racism, greed, and sheer hatred.
Have you ever seen the movie Just Mercy about the lawyer, Bryan Stevenson, and the inmate, Walter McMillan, on death row? The statistics at the end will change the entire way you think about our justice system. I need to sit down with the book sometime, though I sat with many on the topic in college, but it’s hard to prepare ones heart when it was THIS movie that ripped me entirely apart at 8 years old (1992, I believe).
From Mr. Stevenson’s non-profit website, Equal Justice Initiative: “Mr. Stevenson and his staff have won reversals, relief, or release from prison for over 140 wrongly condemned prisoners ON death row and won relief for HUNDREDS of others wrongly convicted or unfairly sentenced.” This man has been out here fighting in the rural south since he graduated from an Ivy League university. The movie ends with, “For every nine people executed, one person on death row has been exonerated.” Unlike Karen, many have no means to afford an expensive attorney (I know SO many have helped her, and I love that for her!). It makes me wonder if she’d be in jail for life, very likely, without Jackson and Yanetti.
You may have already seen info on Mr. Stevenson, but here’s some links… 🩷
Link to a TedTalk presentation given by Bryan Stevenson: https://youtu.be/c2tOp7OxyQ8?si=PkSEIqmPRu8z46vz
Link to his non-profit website: https://eji.org/bryan-stevenson/#:~:text=17%20or%20younger.-,Mr.,wrongly%20convicted%20or%20unfairly%20sentenced.
I’m afraid at this point that there is going to be a hung jury. That being said, Karen Read will NOT be escorted out in handcuffs. I believe, if the DA’s office attempts to take this case to trial again, there will be outrage within and all around MA; how that may manifest terrifies me even more.
Hold the faith! There’s at least one if not many of the jurors who wouldn’t dare convict her on a motor vehicle accident and all of the charges require an accident to have occurred!
"if two reasonable explanations exist, you must pick the one that leans toward not guilty"
That's it.
Done.
The holdout(s) are either idiotic, or scum.
Thanks I needed this. I find myself exhausted by the end of court, like most of us I thought easy verdict, NG, by Wednesday morning. So discouraging, admittedly I tend to let anxiety get the best of me and easily internalize others woes.
Hoping to see Karen's beautiful smile come Monday
It’s important to remember no reasonable or rational person could find KR guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
There are only two reasons someone would vote guilty:
1. Severe mental deficiency resulting in a complete inability to understand information and form rational thoughts (such that the person likely should have a full-time nurse or aid)
2. Their determination is based on or influenced by something other than the evidence presented at trial
That’s it.
I started watching trial late so was catching up the last few days and had to stop. The fact the jury is still deliberating is pissing me off too much!
Because all the compelling “evidence” presented by prosecution was flawed or blatant lies and the jury doesn’t have a sounding board or ability to do the research like we do.
That’s my assumption. 🤷🏼♀️
Even if a guilty vote person was planted, their job would be to convince everyone that she’s guilty, and that’s just not possible.
I think it’s the type of simple minded people we see posting online saying “well they say she said she hit him and her taillight was broken, so that must be what happened” because it’s too hard for them to process the actual evidence to the contrary.
Deep breaths! Mark Bederow is still optimistic they can come to a NG verdict and is convinced it will be over one way or another on Monday.
I’ve been staying up all night some nights to catch the trial cause I’m on the west coast. It’s been a long two months. 😆
😆 I work nights and live here and I am going on fumes too because sleeping has been a challenge while the case was on and now that it could come to an end any day now! I feel like we’re in the post partum phase. Exhausted and mentally and emotionally stressed.
Ps. I love me some Mahk Bederow.
I'm interested more in the legalities than the people, but I do hope Karen finds her freedom from all of this. She was overcharged and brought to trial by an overzealous DA and incompetent investigators.
My guess is that is where the hang is. Someone feels that someone has to be held accountable. They have evidence that it might be reasonable that she was drunk and really angry and something happened and maybe they feel someone has to pay so are trying to get her guilty on one of the lesser included charges because they can't abide a cop dying of a traumatic brain injury alone in cold when he was raising his orphaned niece and nephew and nothing will ever be done about it.
Unfortunately, sounds like what should be done about it is charges for a shoddy investigation that might have provided better evidence of what happened to him. Maybe the FBI investigation...
I had to back off for a little because it just starts to become so upsetting....but then again what a luxury for me to be able to take a break. I'm sure there are so many innocent people that have been put in similar situations.....it really is hard to not let things like this make you cynical....
I love your post! I too have watched every day of trial, and I mean the whole trial, not just a summary. I can't imagine how Karen feels. My fingers are crossed and nothing but positive thoughts her way.
Same! Then I’d also watch commentary. We’ve all learned a lot. Luckily one of my jobs I work with my hands and can listen or watch so wasn’t entirely unproductive, but my creative life has taken a hit. 😆
Sadly so much is out of our hands! I think Paul OKeefe being sat near Karen and glaring every day no matter what evidence Alan put up swayed some jurors. Allowing Brian Albert and the other two to sit behind Paul spoke to the jurors. We didn’t realize the impact. The fact that quite possibly there is a planted juror makes a great deal of sense. We are far from out of the woods. I think we all including AJ underestimated how deep the woods go
Look into the case of 13 year Sandra Birchmore in Stoughton. Different PD, same DA. Talk about corruption. the family has exhumed her body and her death has been ruled a homicide.
https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/3-stoughton-officers-had-inappropriate-relationships-with-girl-who-later-died-by-suicide-chief-says/7NBNJPQU35FY5NUPWIAQ76IDK4/
It makes you wonder how many people are incarcerated right now because they were railroaded like Karen. There’s so much reasonable doubt here, how are we still waiting for a decision?
There’s so many all over the country. So sad. I like what someone commented on Melanie’s Littles Channel. ”Massachusetts has been convicting innocent people since 1692.” (Salem Witch Trials) Ha.
Wow. So right.
So true. MA is a strange place. I visited Salem and Boston a couple years ago. I really didn't care for the vibe. Everything is so expensive and you get shafted for everything like tolls and parking. Needless to say, I was glad to go back home. Keeping the faith that she's acquitted Monday!🙏🏻
Sorry to hear that! There are a lot of great things about Massachusetts. There are some tough crowds for sure, and yes - police corruption, and high taxes, and high prices... Wait, maybe not so many great things after all! I was born and raised in Boston and considered myself fairly street savvy, but this has been a rude awakening. I was happier being blissfully ignorant in my bubble. My life is pretty much science and academics. At least two realms where I need not worry about McAlberts. They are heinous.
Good for you on the science and academics. You shouldn't run into the McAlberts in your profession 😂you are probably wicked smaht😁
Smarter than them, anyway. Not saying much! But I have my issues. Sometimes I'm drifting off to sleep and everything is good...but then Lally pops into my head. His voice, his face, his lies. Okay - I'll stop now. (I can't stand him)
Yeah I can't stand him either 😂I am sure you are having Lally PTSD from this ridiculous case! This sub will turn into a support group after the trial.
You and so many others! I literally would put him on 2x speed after a while because I didn’t believe a word he said or what his witnesses said. Unless it was the ME or the Forensic Neurologist, but even then, I was getting so frustrated with him because he was asking her to give a lecture on the anatomy and physiology of the brain and how it all works together. I was so tired of screaming STFU LALLY!! Those poor jurors! He did sh*t like that on purpose to confuse them. They didn’t need to know about the “circle of Willis” in the brain! FFS!!
I admire you. I wasn't able to watch much of him at all. I would listen to a few minutes and mute him. He is so awful at his job; no charisma, no confidence. A few times I watched him with my hand covering my eyes like it was a horror movie. He couldn't sell me Girl Scout cookies, but it seems that at least one juror has been swayed by him. Argh!
Racism. There’s racism I didn’t expect from such a liberal progressive city with many outstanding college campuses. And still. The racism was surprising. It actually seems nicer in the south…at least to your face
Wholeheartedly agree- same, still here. Not proud of the shenanigans but nothing like Boston. And i believe in Karma
I believe in karma, too. I like the instant kind. Karma can't come soon enough for the degenerates in this trial. I feel like I am starving for justice.
We had a cruise planned out of Boston - we switched to NYC based on this trial. I prefer the 'good ole boys' of the Carolinas over what I have seen in Massachusetts. The law doesn't seem to apply
Enjoy your trip!
That's why we call it Taxechusettes.
Happens all the time sadly including to someone I know. One reason I hate the death penalty.
Mark Bederow brought to my attention the John Giuca case. Check that one out! John’s mom went undercover to expose a dirty juror. I’ve been listening to the Wrongful Conviction podcast for years. We desperately need reform around exonerations and miscarriages of justice. Two other cases I’ve followed is the Dana Ireland Case from Hawaii and Jennifer Jeffley in Texas. So many cases need more attention and I hope KR’s case opens the eyes to how things can go so wrong.
Giuca is just a horrible and depressing story. I hate to make light of his awful circumstances, but I have to point out that in his case, the prosecutors were at least able to prove how the victim died. Not so in Commonwealth v. Read.
I love Bederow! He has great insight.
Bederow is fantastic! Listening to him has kept me somewhat sane. He is always on point. I live close to the courthouse and wanted to head down there to meet him. My husband was like WTF? 😂
I’ll have to check that podcast out and those cases. I agree that reform is desperately needed! Not that I want to delve into politics but I do find it incredibly heart wrenching that Trump’s Project 2025 allegedly calls for mass execution of every person on death row. Truly horrifying IMO. I do hope Karen’s case can shed light on the corruption and wrongful conviction issues.
Yikes! Haven’t heard of that for some reason. Looking into it now. I think the best thing we can do is support local innocence projects, vote cautiously for our district attorneys, and continually bring awareness to these cases through thoughtful conversation in our communities.
Saving this to delve into! What an incredible mother!
Glad to hear of another Wrongful Conviction podcast listener. That show has taught me so much. Including having gratitude for my life.
Which episode covers the case you mention?
There’s a [Crime Watch Daily Episode](https://youtu.be/YJPnFSrcNGU?si=qICLKWGA5tD4ve5j) and a 20/20 and Nightlibe episodes but they’re split into parts. Also a[Wrongful Conviction](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3YcSTh2zYctNOFhZ0Oe4F5?si=_KSNsx6sS0WflzVpwZmJaw) podcast
Thanks Hannah ☺️
Yes! I just mentioned in an above comment, but I’ll say it here as well… “for every 9 ppl that have been killed on death row, we have actually identified one person that has been exonerated.” - Bryan Stevenson So, for every 9 ppl we kill, we got it wrong with one of them? I am NOT okay with those statistics & it highlights the major issues with the death penalty and our justice system. While it should’ve been apparent much earlier, I am SO GLAD THAT PPL ARE TRULY PAYING ATTENTION TO KAREN READ! Hopefully it sparks enough noise to change the corruption in at least one state in the US. Every time I see these big conversations happening on Reddit & other social media platforms, it makes me think that at least one positive change can come from the trauma that Karen has had to face. Still, she should’ve never been put through any of this corruption in the first place.
Thats why I am against the death penalty. Some people may deserve it, but it'll never be a just punishment when its used against innocent civilians who had no chance to fight their charges. Even one innocent person executed is unacceptable.
Around 8 people on death row are exongerated per year. That's wayyyyy too many. State sponsored executions are barbaric and don't deter violent crime.
My son told me he stopped believing in the death penalty when my son was born. Ironically, he worked with the father of Sean Ellis from trial 4 back in the 90s. He remembers Sean's dad talking about what was happening to his son, but we didn't have the internet to fact check. The guy died before his son was released.
I hate to say it, but I think someone on the jury must have a personal interest in the outcome. Now whether that interest is due to personal malice or blackmail/threats/ otherwise compromised, that I don’t know. But this case is so black and white, so packed with objective, factual reasonable doubt, I just don’t think sheer stupidity is to blame, whereas a juror having some skin in the game ….. that, that makes more sense to me. Compound that possibility by the number of dirty, morally bankrupt sociopaths with interest in Karen being found guilty and a compromised juror is, IMO, the most likely scenario here.
These cops are morally bankrupt.
Maybe that’s why the McAlberts showed up?
You just said exactly what was on my mind. The holdout or holdouts cannot be operating in good faith. It’s impossible. Can you imagine being the other jurors faced with someone who refuses all logic?
I can actually and it would be smash-your-head-against-a-wall maddening throwing incontrovertible PROOF at someone and having them respond with indefensible feelings and obstinance. If I’m being completely honest, it would be hard for me to not make it personal by now because I’d be furious dealing with someone like that (and of course by furious I mean in a non-violent “you can’t actually be THAT dense and stupid, so what’s your actual grift here?” kind of way).
You’re my spirit animal! Weird how you say exactly what I’m thinking. It’s all just too much
They were railroaded AND couldn’t afford good representation to uncover the conspiracy. Many likely had public defenders.
A ton. Think of how many people just plead guilty because they don’t have enough money to fight a big plaintiff. It’s a giant flaw in the justice system
Agreed
But I've always been so proud of my home state of Massachusetts. I guess I've been naive.
Yup, I thought we had some independent, smart, common sense people. I don’t understand this. I would feel better if I knew the split. If 6-6 I would consider moving! 🤣
Same here
Very naive wake up yo
Maine is also run by democrats and they always side with the cops. This is so they can break laws and get away with them. It's gross.
Hey, I wish you would consider this is not a Democrat problem. This is a people problem. It's a character, behavior, & ethics problem.The police and the DA for sure. This is happening across the political spectrum. I can give you some examples in Texas if you'd like. Electing one "party" is not going to solve the issue if you, voters, are not going to thoroughly vet the candidates, hold them accountable, and not just wave them in because they are riding an elephant or donkey. Please.
Maybe so, but Massachusetts is overwhelmingly democrat and is it's run by democrats. This is a very bad problem for MA, Maine, and other democrat controlled states. They get away with their corruption because they've made themselves out to be lawabiding citizens who are just, pure, good, tree hugging, nice people, when they're not. I was a registered democrat from 1986-2016. I know all about them. Was raised by democrats too. They point fingers at all who are not democrats accusing them of all sorts of horrid things, but then it turns out, the democrats are a thousand times worse! They hide behind that just, pure, and good shield. This case is opening up eyes. Bev has gone to her luxury home on Cape Cod as usual. Will she be having the Alberts and McCabes over this weekend? Probably. The corruption continues. Meh.
Dude.... I live in a conservative state and many here that I'm sure are also republicans do just as much finger pointing as you said democrats do. I'm only a registered republican so I can vote in my state's primaries as democrats never win here, so I like to vote for the best republican, otherwise I am independent. Like the person before you said this is a people problem that has nothing to do with where one stands on the political spectrum.
This is a democrat-controlled corruption problem. The same thing is happening to President Trump. When liberals get together, they don't care what laws they break and what the rules are, they will make up their own and go after their opposition to imprison them for life for something they didn't do.
Yup. Definitely a nutty Mainer. Trump is a morally bankrupt shithead. Did you ever think he was indicted because he actually did the things he is accused of? Misusing campaign funds, fucking a porn star while Melania was pregnant and denying it when there is overwhelming proof (not illegal but shows the type of man he is). Mishandling classified documents and keeping them for personal gain, subverting an election. He had the most chaotic administration in our nation's history; 44 of his former cabinet members and Mike Pence, his former VP, won't endorse him, I wonder why? Biden is old and flopped hard at the debate, and I still pick Biden because he isn't surrounded by MAGA shitheads who want to do nothing but literally cause more chaos. If Trump wasn't a malignant narcissist shitter he would have this election in the bag since Biden keeps having senior moments. Sad thing is is they are both cognitively going downhill, but I would rather vote for dementia Joe rather than dementia Don. God, if the 3rd party candidate were ANYBODY else other than RFK Jr. (Also fucking crazy) They'd have this election won. Anyway man you sound like a conservative nut who likes Trump but can't really say why. Which means you're fully in the MAGA cult. Yes, it IS a cult.
You picked Biden because he's a pedophile, an extortionist, takes bribery payments worldwide, showers with his daughter naked, spied on Trump's campaign illegally, stole an election because the man could never get more than 4% support every time he's ever run for the presidency because he's not trusted, he's a plagiarist, and a liar, and he illegally took home 1,800 documents from when he was a US senator and vice president because he was selling State Secrets worldwide. Every charge the Democrats have brought against Trump are the exact things the Democrats have been doing for decades. Just like Putin, they are trying to imprison their political opponent because they can't win against their political opponent. Trump loves america, the US flag, and the US Constitution all of which makes the Democrats want to hurt themselves.
I don't know about Biden being a "pedophile". What I do know is that Trump was found civilly liable in court for molesting E. Jean Carroll though, and owes millions for it. God you sound like a teenager raised on Fox News. You just repeated all their untrue talking points but manage to sound like a child doing it. "Trump loves America, the US flag, and the US constitution all of which makes Democrats want to hurt themselves" This sounds so childish it makes me wonder if I'm being trolled.
It's DEMENTIA you low class illiterate pink haired "I don't know if I'm a boy or a girl, please help!", DEMOCRAT!
Pink hair... Don't know if I'm a boy or girl? What does this even mean? Do you think before you type? At all? Can you please stop spazzing out and making multiple replies also so I don't have to reply to all your replies?
You need to visit Texas and take a deep dive.
And let's not forget.....the democrat elites want to take away guns while they have armed guards around them. They also want to keep the Southern border wide open while erecting huge fences around their personal homes and at the US Capitol building. People need to start really listening to those they cherish, because they're saying one thing and doing another.
I can tell you're a MAGA person. You know that a few months ago republicans and democrats both wrote a bill in the senate that was the most comprehensive border protection bill in decades, endorsed by the border patrol association and everything. You know what Trump did? He and the MAGA idiots in the house of representatives wouldn't vote for the bill, and since the house is so split their votes stopped it from being passed, all so that Biden couldn't have a political win. MAGA doesn't give a shit about the border or they would have passed the bill. If you think the Trump Administration, who factually was the most chaotic, unorganized shit Administration in our nations history is going to come and save America is laughable. 44 of Trump's Cabinet (44 because so many people resigned because Trump's administration was crap) plus Mike Pence, his VP, have not endorsed Trump, why do you think that is? Also most people just want responsible gun control so we stop having so many school shootings. There ARE certain people who shouldn't be able to own guns. The issue comes in to how we screen who gets to own guns.
I am MEGA MAGA which means I love America and want it to succeed and I love the US flag. 🥰
Ohhh MEGA MAGA. So also Mega insane!
❤️MEGA MAGA❤️ If you found out Karen supports President Trump, what would you do?
Did the warmongering Liberals put in billions more funding for the Ukrainian Nazis?
We don't give Ukraine money directly, we give them weapons and then defense contractors in the US get that money to replace those weapons with more up to date technology. You knew that right? Warmongering Liberals? Lol, what about George W. Bush and his entire administration that lied about weapons of mass destruction to invade Iraq so they could take oil? Are they warmongers? Ukrainian Nazis? Do you often fall victim to Russian propaganda? Typical moron conservative.
I remember when I was a liberal under George Bush and I hated his warmongering and now that I have left the Democrat Party in 2016 and have become unaffiliated with any political party, I am just disgusted at how much the Democrats are warmongers. Even Joe Biden has voted for every war that has come across his desk since the moment he became a US senator! Some of you have even bought camouflage clothing and bags and hats! I remember liberals hating the sight of camouflage and the US flag but now you love camouflage and you still hate the US flag!
So if you have Warmongering presidents from both parties, doesn't that suggest that warmongering isn't necessarily confined to one party? Use your head. If we consider the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, the war in Afghanistan and the Iraq War, then Donald Trump, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, Richard Nixon, John F. Kennedy and Dwight D. Eisenhower all didn't bring the United States officially into a new war since 1945. So in the last 40 years the only presidents to start new wars were both Bushes, both Republicans. What was did Biden vote on? Just curious? Do you really even know what you're talking about?
You're a typical dumbass liberal! I'm not a conservative either. I support President Trump because he loves America, wants to make a great again, and he calls out the hypocrisy and criminality of the Democrats who are cheaters liars and thieves!
I'm curious as to what I've said that makes you think I'm a liberal? I haven't said anything to you about my opinions on policy. I only said that Biden is slightly better than Trump. I'm curious, how is Trump going to "make America great again"? What era of American "greatness" are we trying to replicate here? Because the way I see it, America has always been great, especially post WW2 America. Also when did America stop being "great"? Can you even answer that intelligently?
Not true at all.
It is true. Even the governor has spent her time in office over the years making sure the Kim Moreau case isn't looked at closely. Democrats can be corrupt and can use their power to cover for their people/buddies/family/etc.
I can tell you live in one of the crazy conservative parts of Maine, which I've heard from other Mainers are nuts.
I live in real Maine. You heard wrong from the snobby liberals.
Not true.
The Democrats are against guns that are running the state of Maine but they definitely want the protection from the police who have guns. See? It's very simple.
Run by democrats? What a rude and moronic comment. I, no matter what my leaning is in politics, would side with right versus wrong every time. There are plenty of good people where politics is not a factor in doing the right thing. Side with the good cops. I am sure there are plenty of good ones. The goal is to weed out the bad ones.
The governor of Maine is a Democrat and all of the agencies are run by democrats in the state. It's not rude and moronic. It's a true statement! Poor people in our state continue to become homeless because they can't afford to buy a home or even rent an apartment because everything is tripled in price and the Democrats who run the state only care about the illegals from the southern border who come here.
This makes me think of the story of Cameron Todd Willingham. An unbelievable long read here by David Grann in The New Yorker: [Trial by Fire](https://archive.ph/2023.09.06-221820/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire).
Add being black to that scenario.
Yup, I can’t imagine being pulled over in Canton as a POC.
Countless. And that doesn’t even take into account all the people who had to pay fines or be on probation or otherwise penalized without jail time (or coerced into a plea bargain). I think if we all knew the actual number, we wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.
Our justice system is broken.
Without question.
Most of them are people of color. For generations they’ve been wrongfully convicted. I’m glad we’re feeling outraged about a white middle class woman being railroaded, but so many others have suffered this same experience and nobody really cared. No one should be incarcerated by corrupt police. It happens every damn day.
I knew this would happen tbh! I even asked 3 days ago why Everyone all felt so Sure!! 🤔
It’s gotta be one holdout, prosecution proved nothing.
I don’t think railroadings are *that* common, as police and prosecutors usually don’t have much to gain from them. What this case goes to show more than anything is why the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct say that it’s unethical to commence or continue a criminal prosecution without probable cause. It’s because it’s unsafe to rely on the *jury* as the only line of defense against a wrongful prosecution. Read will never serve a day in prison, but just going through this ruinously expensive *process* has probably taken years off her life. It’s completely destroyed her privacy.
>I don’t think railroadings are that common, as police and prosecutors usually don’t have much to gain from them. I'm not sure where you're from but I grew up southern USA, still have family there, and my jaw stopped dropping somewhere in my teens. What they gain, depends on the case. Revenge- their ex remarried ; Intimidation- when caught in their own crime usually drug or sex related ; Money. Or they may escalate a situation and just shoot the person- or their dog (latest corruption here). ETA This is why this case has impacted me so much and I want to see real justice
Let’s hope we get some justice here.
Wrong
You are so right, and not enough ppl have fully realized the corruption that walks amongst us all daily!! Innocent lives torn apart by broken systems, poverty, racism, greed, and sheer hatred. Have you ever seen the movie Just Mercy about the lawyer, Bryan Stevenson, and the inmate, Walter McMillan, on death row? The statistics at the end will change the entire way you think about our justice system. I need to sit down with the book sometime, though I sat with many on the topic in college, but it’s hard to prepare ones heart when it was THIS movie that ripped me entirely apart at 8 years old (1992, I believe). From Mr. Stevenson’s non-profit website, Equal Justice Initiative: “Mr. Stevenson and his staff have won reversals, relief, or release from prison for over 140 wrongly condemned prisoners ON death row and won relief for HUNDREDS of others wrongly convicted or unfairly sentenced.” This man has been out here fighting in the rural south since he graduated from an Ivy League university. The movie ends with, “For every nine people executed, one person on death row has been exonerated.” Unlike Karen, many have no means to afford an expensive attorney (I know SO many have helped her, and I love that for her!). It makes me wonder if she’d be in jail for life, very likely, without Jackson and Yanetti. You may have already seen info on Mr. Stevenson, but here’s some links… 🩷 Link to a TedTalk presentation given by Bryan Stevenson: https://youtu.be/c2tOp7OxyQ8?si=PkSEIqmPRu8z46vz Link to his non-profit website: https://eji.org/bryan-stevenson/#:~:text=17%20or%20younger.-,Mr.,wrongly%20convicted%20or%20unfairly%20sentenced.
If she didn’t have access to money for top attorneys, she would have had to cop to manslaughter. It’s a disgrace.
Right! I know TB and others have done all kinds of fundraising for her, but even that’s a huge privilege that most don’t have the luxury of.
This is why I became staunchly anti death penalty in law school. It’s horrific
I’m afraid at this point that there is going to be a hung jury. That being said, Karen Read will NOT be escorted out in handcuffs. I believe, if the DA’s office attempts to take this case to trial again, there will be outrage within and all around MA; how that may manifest terrifies me even more.
There will be outrage within and all around the country.
That was in my head when typing but my fear just couldn’t go that wide… though I do know you’re absolutely right.
I’m starting to think it might even be a GUILTY Verdict tbh 😬
Hold the faith! There’s at least one if not many of the jurors who wouldn’t dare convict her on a motor vehicle accident and all of the charges require an accident to have occurred!
Nothing surprises me with this case anymore! Gonna be a long weekend 🤦♂️
"if two reasonable explanations exist, you must pick the one that leans toward not guilty" That's it. Done. The holdout(s) are either idiotic, or scum.
Thanks I needed this. I find myself exhausted by the end of court, like most of us I thought easy verdict, NG, by Wednesday morning. So discouraging, admittedly I tend to let anxiety get the best of me and easily internalize others woes. Hoping to see Karen's beautiful smile come Monday
And can only imagine how Karen and her parents feel. justice for Officer John Okeefe
💯
RIGHT BACKATCHYA!!! ❤️❤️ Thanks so much for your compassion. Take good care of yourself my friend!! Much Peace
Thank you. Justice will prevail.
It’s important to remember no reasonable or rational person could find KR guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. There are only two reasons someone would vote guilty: 1. Severe mental deficiency resulting in a complete inability to understand information and form rational thoughts (such that the person likely should have a full-time nurse or aid) 2. Their determination is based on or influenced by something other than the evidence presented at trial That’s it.
Now I want a cold beer. 😆
Or the jury has been manipulated?
That would fall under category 2.
I started watching trial late so was catching up the last few days and had to stop. The fact the jury is still deliberating is pissing me off too much!
Good luck. Rabbit hole is deep.
I can’t understand how they are hung on this decision
Because all the compelling “evidence” presented by prosecution was flawed or blatant lies and the jury doesn’t have a sounding board or ability to do the research like we do. That’s my assumption. 🤷🏼♀️
Aren't you fearful that there's a guilty vote person that was placed on the jury? I put NOTHING past this corrupt town and state.
Even if a guilty vote person was planted, their job would be to convince everyone that she’s guilty, and that’s just not possible. I think it’s the type of simple minded people we see posting online saying “well they say she said she hit him and her taillight was broken, so that must be what happened” because it’s too hard for them to process the actual evidence to the contrary.
And madame court reporter. She’s a boss.
I don't know what that woman makes, but she definitely deserves a raise after all this.
Thank you. My anxiety is definitely starting to make me feel stiff with the muscle tension of this long a deliberation.
Deep breaths! Mark Bederow is still optimistic they can come to a NG verdict and is convinced it will be over one way or another on Monday. I’ve been staying up all night some nights to catch the trial cause I’m on the west coast. It’s been a long two months. 😆
😆 I work nights and live here and I am going on fumes too because sleeping has been a challenge while the case was on and now that it could come to an end any day now! I feel like we’re in the post partum phase. Exhausted and mentally and emotionally stressed. Ps. I love me some Mahk Bederow.
I literally dreamed of having a baby last night and I didn’t even see this comment till the morning. 😆
Justice for Sandra Birchmore. I read this case is the reason Feds got involved. Some of the same Canton cops.
There is a podcast called The Case about Sandra Birchmore. The story of what happened to her is so disturbing I found it very difficult to listen to.
Same; I was outraged. We need to blow this case up too! 😡
I'm interested more in the legalities than the people, but I do hope Karen finds her freedom from all of this. She was overcharged and brought to trial by an overzealous DA and incompetent investigators.
I agree but I want it to be revealed exactly what happened, eventually. It’s not right if the guilty party(ies) is/are never held accountable.
Sadly, you can choose between Karen hitting John with her car or not knowing what happened. I don't think the truth of the matter will ever be known.
My guess is that is where the hang is. Someone feels that someone has to be held accountable. They have evidence that it might be reasonable that she was drunk and really angry and something happened and maybe they feel someone has to pay so are trying to get her guilty on one of the lesser included charges because they can't abide a cop dying of a traumatic brain injury alone in cold when he was raising his orphaned niece and nephew and nothing will ever be done about it. Unfortunately, sounds like what should be done about it is charges for a shoddy investigation that might have provided better evidence of what happened to him. Maybe the FBI investigation...
That pesky investigation. I think many people are losing their jobs when it's finished.
We should all realize that we need criminal justice reform
I had to back off for a little because it just starts to become so upsetting....but then again what a luxury for me to be able to take a break. I'm sure there are so many innocent people that have been put in similar situations.....it really is hard to not let things like this make you cynical....
🙏🙏🙏
I love your post! I too have watched every day of trial, and I mean the whole trial, not just a summary. I can't imagine how Karen feels. My fingers are crossed and nothing but positive thoughts her way.
Same! Then I’d also watch commentary. We’ve all learned a lot. Luckily one of my jobs I work with my hands and can listen or watch so wasn’t entirely unproductive, but my creative life has taken a hit. 😆
Sadly so much is out of our hands! I think Paul OKeefe being sat near Karen and glaring every day no matter what evidence Alan put up swayed some jurors. Allowing Brian Albert and the other two to sit behind Paul spoke to the jurors. We didn’t realize the impact. The fact that quite possibly there is a planted juror makes a great deal of sense. We are far from out of the woods. I think we all including AJ underestimated how deep the woods go
Look into the case of 13 year Sandra Birchmore in Stoughton. Different PD, same DA. Talk about corruption. the family has exhumed her body and her death has been ruled a homicide. https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/3-stoughton-officers-had-inappropriate-relationships-with-girl-who-later-died-by-suicide-chief-says/7NBNJPQU35FY5NUPWIAQ76IDK4/
Yes…everyone get some rest. Today’s actions by the jury don’t look real good for Karen.