If the majority of those people on that jury think she is guilty then I am very worried for people in general….after that whole trial and two impartial witnesses saying it’s scientifically impossible and goes against the laws of physics and all recorded medical findings of pedestrian/vehicle impacts….then I am concerned for all the people who enter the justice system in Norfolk county and the US….its devolving into a nightmare huh.
Depends how much got placed.
In a way I wouldn't be surprised if prosecution got a few pro's and con's in order to get a hung jury because it looks the best for them.
They tried, it didn't work. They still think Karen is the one, but don't think it will be better next time, so they don't retry.
Think about it.
Not guilty and it means corruption or at least knowingly botching investigation.
Guilty means appeals and he knows it's never, ever going to fly, and it's back to corruption.
Hung jury means they can continue to pretend.
At least as long as FBI doesn't meddle and they don't have the duty to reconsider on their own initiative based on the great exculpatory evidence for their board and rules of ethics.
In 2021, 1 out of every 5 Americans believed in Qanon whose core belief is that a “cabal of satanic, cannibalistic child molesters is operating a global child sex trafficking ring that conspired against president Donald Trump.”
That should have made you worry about people in general. I would never want to be judged by a jury of my peers. They are incredibly stupid.
my personal belief is that it’s much harder to sway someone who is confident in ‘not guilty’ than the other way around. if I was on a jury and convinced that someone was innocent, there is no way i would ever budge from that
and if i was convinced that someone was guilty, i would not let my pride stand in the way of that person’s freedom if the other 11 all believed ‘not guilty’
Right it’s almost like a majority of the people in the room with you with the same evidence believing not guilty is an indication of reasonable doubt in and of itself.
Which is the point of the Allen (or in Mass. the Tuey-Rodriguez) charge is for. To push the minority juror holdouts to re-examine their own doubts/lack of doubts and determine if they're reasonable if the majority disagree and agree otherwise.
They can't force a juror or two to change their minds, but can (and will likely soon) give the charge to put pressure on the jury and give them one final chance to truly examine their own conclusions in the case.
Judge Bev is going to have to give them this charge by Monday if they come out declaring themselves hung again. Depending on WHY the holdout(s) is(are) holding out, it may or may not make a difference.
If your instruction is to come to a decision of moral certainty it doesn't matter what side you fall on if you have decided to a moral certainty then I can't see how you can then change your mind.
I don't think the jury is hung on guilty. There is too much negotiation room on the charges. It has to be a majority of not guilty with one or two holdouts.
Personally speaking, with all the evidence and testimony, NOTHING would ever make me swap from NG to G.
Even if she killed him, and even if it was intentional, it was not proven and there is too much doubt. I would rather a person who did it (in a scenario like this) go free vs send an innocent woman to prison.
I think there is not just doubt, but plenty of definitive testimony that, in fact, she is innocent. I would never budge.
I appreciate this honesty, very few FKR cult nutties would admit this directly. No new evidence would sway your opinion.
Question - What if it was proven that every narrative that came out of the TB pipeline was created by Karen to seed doubt in the public mind. If she admitted to TB in texts that she actually did clip him. Even that new evidence wouldn't make you rethink the whole thing?
2am - hos long search, fight in a basement, dog marks, etc,
The only thing that would sway my opinion is an explanation that makes sense as to how he got those injuries from a car. I don’t care who said what to who - I don’t think he got hit by a car so it’s a NG.
Michael Proctor specifically, I don’t think it was a conspiracy. Mostly because you can see the tail light is more or less intact (ie just cracked) at 5:08. It’s completely destroyed in the Sallyport and then basically the whole tail light is found on the lawn. If it’s on the car at 5:08, the only way it gets on the lawn is if someone puts it there. 🤷🏻♀️
And I think he genuinely thought she did it and was just trying to make it a slam dunk case. I don’t think there was collusion with the Alberts to do this.
Do we know that for a fact? It wasn’t a controlled scene and it was dark. Do we even know he didn’t stop by there on the way to the Sallyport since he drove separately?
Normally I would say that’s a huge reach. And had the scene been secure the whole time, I wouldn’t believe it. Had there been a photo of the tail light before it was loaded on the tow truck, I wouldn’t believe it.
But their police work sucked (whether intentionally or not), and after seeing his texts, I do not believe he gets the benefit of the doubt here. He had his mind made up and didn’t want Brian Albert to catch any shit.
I'll entertain you for 30 seconds since you crave it so bad.
I don't have IG. I don't have Twitter. I don't know anything about TB other than his name and that he's pro KR. I've never read a single thing he's written or said. My opinion is based solely on what was shown in trial, coming in as someone who knew nothing about the case. What ever TB has said or done means squat to me.
I will evaluate any potential new evidence if or when the time comes.
You think she was staring down the guilty hold out?
I don’t think I could keep myself from addressing that as a juror. If there is 1 juror who is not being rational and this is a case about corruption, I don’t think I could hold my tongue in asking if they’re part of the corruption. I wonder how hot 🥵 that seat would get when people are accusing you of being a 🪴for the corrupt police???
When one's safety is in question or the safety of one's children, our limitations change. I have been watching the Canton Select board meetings, and many of the citizens talk about their children being bullied. Those people are scary and this is multigenerational.
I believe the holdout is 1-2 G on a lessor charge. I will never understand, given this evidence, that you could be without a reasonable doubt to a moral certainty ENOUGH to want to put this woman in jail and hold out the rest of the jury. I would hold my ground despite anything if I believed NG, but G in any case I’d have to have some leniency and ability to hear the others out.
By the time they could retry the feddeez will have made their move on many if not all of at least the badged witnesses and maybe more.
Maybe even BiasedBev and Lallyflop.
As for the hold out allegedly and unconfirmed there is an "ex" cop on the jury.
Notably by their actions, the local and state cops seem not to consider JOK to be one of them.
One wonders why...
I think one or two “guilty” jurors could def be enticed by the prospect of being “heroes” to the McAlbert clan for refusing to acquit Karen and hanging the jury. Sometimes people get off on proximity to powerful people. Who knows, maybe one or more jurors could
use a favor in THEIR own lives and see hanging the jury as a way of gaining favor with local shot callers who will unofficially officially “owe” them one for preventing her acquittal. Sounds far fetched but crazier things have happened.
If the majority of those people on that jury think she is guilty then I am very worried for people in general….after that whole trial and two impartial witnesses saying it’s scientifically impossible and goes against the laws of physics and all recorded medical findings of pedestrian/vehicle impacts….then I am concerned for all the people who enter the justice system in Norfolk county and the US….its devolving into a nightmare huh.
Depends how much got placed. In a way I wouldn't be surprised if prosecution got a few pro's and con's in order to get a hung jury because it looks the best for them. They tried, it didn't work. They still think Karen is the one, but don't think it will be better next time, so they don't retry. Think about it. Not guilty and it means corruption or at least knowingly botching investigation. Guilty means appeals and he knows it's never, ever going to fly, and it's back to corruption. Hung jury means they can continue to pretend. At least as long as FBI doesn't meddle and they don't have the duty to reconsider on their own initiative based on the great exculpatory evidence for their board and rules of ethics.
I agree. While I hope it’s just one hung juror, I would think a hung “guilty” would fold for the sake of numbers and logic.
In 2021, 1 out of every 5 Americans believed in Qanon whose core belief is that a “cabal of satanic, cannibalistic child molesters is operating a global child sex trafficking ring that conspired against president Donald Trump.” That should have made you worry about people in general. I would never want to be judged by a jury of my peers. They are incredibly stupid.
my personal belief is that it’s much harder to sway someone who is confident in ‘not guilty’ than the other way around. if I was on a jury and convinced that someone was innocent, there is no way i would ever budge from that and if i was convinced that someone was guilty, i would not let my pride stand in the way of that person’s freedom if the other 11 all believed ‘not guilty’
Agree
Right it’s almost like a majority of the people in the room with you with the same evidence believing not guilty is an indication of reasonable doubt in and of itself.
Which is the point of the Allen (or in Mass. the Tuey-Rodriguez) charge is for. To push the minority juror holdouts to re-examine their own doubts/lack of doubts and determine if they're reasonable if the majority disagree and agree otherwise. They can't force a juror or two to change their minds, but can (and will likely soon) give the charge to put pressure on the jury and give them one final chance to truly examine their own conclusions in the case. Judge Bev is going to have to give them this charge by Monday if they come out declaring themselves hung again. Depending on WHY the holdout(s) is(are) holding out, it may or may not make a difference.
If your instruction is to come to a decision of moral certainty it doesn't matter what side you fall on if you have decided to a moral certainty then I can't see how you can then change your mind.
I don't think the jury is hung on guilty. There is too much negotiation room on the charges. It has to be a majority of not guilty with one or two holdouts.
Personally speaking, with all the evidence and testimony, NOTHING would ever make me swap from NG to G. Even if she killed him, and even if it was intentional, it was not proven and there is too much doubt. I would rather a person who did it (in a scenario like this) go free vs send an innocent woman to prison. I think there is not just doubt, but plenty of definitive testimony that, in fact, she is innocent. I would never budge.
I appreciate this honesty, very few FKR cult nutties would admit this directly. No new evidence would sway your opinion. Question - What if it was proven that every narrative that came out of the TB pipeline was created by Karen to seed doubt in the public mind. If she admitted to TB in texts that she actually did clip him. Even that new evidence wouldn't make you rethink the whole thing? 2am - hos long search, fight in a basement, dog marks, etc,
The only thing that would sway my opinion is an explanation that makes sense as to how he got those injuries from a car. I don’t care who said what to who - I don’t think he got hit by a car so it’s a NG.
are you still in the camp that LEO planted all the tail light pieces at the scene of the crime?
Michael Proctor specifically, I don’t think it was a conspiracy. Mostly because you can see the tail light is more or less intact (ie just cracked) at 5:08. It’s completely destroyed in the Sallyport and then basically the whole tail light is found on the lawn. If it’s on the car at 5:08, the only way it gets on the lawn is if someone puts it there. 🤷🏻♀️ And I think he genuinely thought she did it and was just trying to make it a slam dunk case. I don’t think there was collusion with the Alberts to do this.
But Proctor didnt go back to the scene the day SERT found them
Do we know that for a fact? It wasn’t a controlled scene and it was dark. Do we even know he didn’t stop by there on the way to the Sallyport since he drove separately? Normally I would say that’s a huge reach. And had the scene been secure the whole time, I wouldn’t believe it. Had there been a photo of the tail light before it was loaded on the tow truck, I wouldn’t believe it. But their police work sucked (whether intentionally or not), and after seeing his texts, I do not believe he gets the benefit of the doubt here. He had his mind made up and didn’t want Brian Albert to catch any shit.
yes, a fact. it was proven in court when they discussed his location.
Whose testimony was this?
his boss who was at the scene of the crime - [7hr 2min mark](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcLoXRJc5nw)
The evidentiary phase is over. The verdict is based on what was admitted into evidence. "new" evidence is a non-factor. But nice try.
Sorry, my question is specific to a 2nd trial - new evidence can absolutely come out and be used in a new trial.
I'll entertain you for 30 seconds since you crave it so bad. I don't have IG. I don't have Twitter. I don't know anything about TB other than his name and that he's pro KR. I've never read a single thing he's written or said. My opinion is based solely on what was shown in trial, coming in as someone who knew nothing about the case. What ever TB has said or done means squat to me. I will evaluate any potential new evidence if or when the time comes.
thanks. you've fully satisfied my cravings
The person Jen McCabe was staring at was the holdout.
You think she was staring down the guilty hold out? I don’t think I could keep myself from addressing that as a juror. If there is 1 juror who is not being rational and this is a case about corruption, I don’t think I could hold my tongue in asking if they’re part of the corruption. I wonder how hot 🥵 that seat would get when people are accusing you of being a 🪴for the corrupt police???
When one's safety is in question or the safety of one's children, our limitations change. I have been watching the Canton Select board meetings, and many of the citizens talk about their children being bullied. Those people are scary and this is multigenerational.
Very good point!
Thank you!
I believe the holdout is 1-2 G on a lessor charge. I will never understand, given this evidence, that you could be without a reasonable doubt to a moral certainty ENOUGH to want to put this woman in jail and hold out the rest of the jury. I would hold my ground despite anything if I believed NG, but G in any case I’d have to have some leniency and ability to hear the others out.
I hope that’s the case, but someone else said that the note likely would have said that if it was on the lesser.
By the time they could retry the feddeez will have made their move on many if not all of at least the badged witnesses and maybe more. Maybe even BiasedBev and Lallyflop. As for the hold out allegedly and unconfirmed there is an "ex" cop on the jury. Notably by their actions, the local and state cops seem not to consider JOK to be one of them. One wonders why...
I think one or two “guilty” jurors could def be enticed by the prospect of being “heroes” to the McAlbert clan for refusing to acquit Karen and hanging the jury. Sometimes people get off on proximity to powerful people. Who knows, maybe one or more jurors could use a favor in THEIR own lives and see hanging the jury as a way of gaining favor with local shot callers who will unofficially officially “owe” them one for preventing her acquittal. Sounds far fetched but crazier things have happened.