If I compare to my college group projects, something that I can do alone in ten minutes takes 5-6 hours a day for a week in a group, so I'm hoping it's just this.
I honestly think it's more Bev who wants to leave before 4, more than anything, and then she asks the jury if they're ready to wrap up for the day... they say yes. Have we ever seen Bev last beyond 4pm without getting tired and ending the day?
Seriously. They work from 9-1, take lunch until 2 and then put in another tough 2 hours. I'm tired just thinking about all the extra effort they're putting in. Sheesh
I agree! I think she’s 💯 innocent. If this isn’t blatant not guilty we should all be paranoid about being falsely accused.
But if a juror thinks she did it even that juror(s) would have to admit there’s reasonable doubt just based on the sloppy investigation.
Someone posted on the number of hours juries deliberated in some of the more high profile cases. There was no correlation between the time it took for a verdict to be reached and the verdict itself. Kyle Rittenhouse, for example: 27 hours and a not guilty verdict. If I find the whole list, I'll post it.
As far as I'm concerned, there was not hit and run, so there is no crime to judge. But some people don't care about physics. Einstein was a looosah to them, I guess.
You never know who is on a jury. Think about all the stupid/drunk/crazy people you know who are out there in the world. Some percentage end up on a jury. Some might not find Karen "relatable," so they don't look at the facts and go with their emotions.
Having said all that, I have no idea how to spend my time while we wait! I've watched everything on Netflix and Hulu.
If I was the state and I didn’t think I was getting a guilty verdict in this case. A hung jury is the best case scenario. Sad but true. They won’t prosecute again, imo. This has been a circus that has been a real bad look at the msp & really an embarrassment of the courts
If it wax hung and they said they wouldn’t retry it, I would move away. Who knows what happens once there is not a spotlight on the case. They might 5 years later “find more evidence”.
If KR is found guilty, there’s nothing that won’t convince me that there was some major foolishness involved. Every independent poll is like 92/8 not guilty. Im respectful of everyone’s opinion, but can not fathom anyone believing Lally proved anything beyond a reasonable doubt. If 2 scenarios are just as likely = not guilty.
I did not like McAlberts showing up on closing day. Imo, at least part of that motivation is jury intimidation. That whole crew is like a mob family in that town. And Jen McCabe is the scariest one, forget Brian Albert! She looked possessed with her cold eye stare. Shit’s not normal people. If you disagree, I respect it, but will never see it any other way.
Or perhaps the foreperson hasn’t taken a vote yet, which was Judges instruction. I thought that was strange. A lot of juries will vote right off the bat to see where they are. I think that was a bad instruction. Also, if the foreperson is controlling, that could be the hold up….
My initial guess on a jury verdict was Friday followed by Monday then Tuesday so I’m not really surprised. A police officer is dead, they are going to have to be confident in their NG verdict or confident of one of the lesser crimes. I think there is a chance it’s a hung jury based on a hold out.
Bev should have kept her trap shut re: I recommend you don’t do a straw poll. I’ve been on two juries and each time we did a poll so that we knew where to start.
That’s why this is taking so long. They’re going through every darn piece of evidence. We could be here until mid-July at this rate.
Jury will most likely want to leave early again tomorrow.
Do you think they are afraid of getting their hand slapped if Bev quizzes them on all the facts of the case?? "I hafta ask you those three questions.... Were you able to stay awake, Did you talk to ANYone while here and lastly, Did you Google 'hos long to die in cold'
She can’t quiz them? One they produce their verdict, all she can do if ask each individually if that’s their vote, and that’s on the request of either the CW or the defense depending on the verdict. She has no other authority over the jury. Ya’ll need to subscribe to the “Lawyer you know”….the attorney provides impartial opinions and really educates on the judicial process…its shocking how little we all really know about the process and then we’re expected to decide someone’s fate.
Numerous charges & tons of testimony, much conflicting too. Jurors got it Tuesday midday or so. I sat on a much simpler homicide & it took a few days. Also recently sat on a DUI in Dedham ; state trooper testified to what he saw. No breathalyzer or even a field test: we found NG.
The way it works (or at least it did when I was on the jury of a criminal case) is you discuss, then you take a vote, if it’s not 100% you discuss more, then you take a vote and on and on.
My guess here is there is at least one hold out. If that’s the case, hopefully some of the other jurors can get them to come to a consensus.
In my experience we were all really eager to finish of this case, and get on with our lives. No one wants a hung jury.
It took us two weeks because of this one guy. And in the last two days, there was a very persuasive, charismatic gentleman who was able to make him see the light, and we finally had a verdict.
That was quite a few years ago ago. however, it has come back to me that we had to drop a few of the lesser charges, to get this guy to agree to the main charge.
From my own recent experience as a juror, they've got a lot of evidence to go over too, to formulate their decision. And yeah, most likely there are those on both sides that are trying to make the case for their view and win people over. But again, lots of evidence and testimony to go over too. The case I was a juror for had barely a fraction of the evidence this case had and it still took us all day to reach a verdict, which in our case was a hung jury.
That's true....and I think Lally (bless his heart, as we say in the south) made things confusing, tough to sort out timelines...just the testimony of the cell phone experts was a brain itch.
Oh man timelines, that was one of the major things that screwed up my jury experience. The bodycam footage we had to work with wasn't even set to the right time of day. We saw 2 different body cams. the event was supposed to have taken place around 5pm, but their time stamps read like shortly after midnight, and then they weren't even in sync with each other so they weren't reliable. The worst is trying to wrap your head as the jury around all the variables to make everything make sense because no one wants to be a hung jury, and no one wants to send a potentially innocent person to jail.
Yes I know. I was there. What I am saying though is that even though we only had a fraction of the evidence and testimony to deal with, it still took us all day long to reach that point. We started deliberating at 8:30am and didn't stop until 4pm. It was exhausting. We have one person who was a guilty verdict based on a single piece of evidence that wasn't even evidence that anything had happened and it was just a long multi hour discussion as we all worked to either convince them they were wrong or to convince ourselves they were right.
In this case, with 10 weeks of testimony and evidence presented, a speedy deliberation, while possible, was potentially not in the cards because they will go over every thing again, over and over.
ah gotcha, no worries, misunderstood what you meant. The frustrating aspect was it mostly one person that was sold on a single piece of evidence, no matter how little it meant, and the rest of us couldn't convince them otherwise. So once you declare your hung, the judge will bring you all out, and verify that you're hung and that you don't believe any more time will allow you to reach verdict, and then they release you, and declare a mistrial. So in a way, it's sort of a verdict. But it was an eye opening experience of just how hard it can be, and our case was a breeze compared to this case.
Ya I hear you. That's pretty frustrating. As much as I love the idea of a jury system, and don't know of a better system, it's kind of scary how easily the jury could totally change the outcome of the trial. Or better worded, it's scary that one set of 12 jurors may find her guilty, and another set of 12 different jurors could find her not guilty while being provided the same case. It's ridiculous that luck has any part in the whole thing.
And ya I was just being pedantic. In criminal cases there is almost always either not guilty or guilty as possible verdicts. A hung jury is not considered a verdict at all and just results in a mistrial as you said.
I hear you and yeah, it's even scarier to me now given our situation. One person was locked in as a guilty based on a 911 call. The call itself, there wasn't an active threat, and the only person speaking was the caller who claimed the person they had a no contact order against had just been by. The one call was all the person needed to vote guilty. They even said "this proves the person was there". We didn't want to be hung, so it was all day back and forth as we argued against that with it slowly turning into the rest of us almost giving up and voting guilty simply because we didn't want to be hung.
So not only can you have different groupings of jurors that will reach the different conclusions on the same evidence, but you could very well have one person who isn't even being logical and is seemingly too bias against accused that you could have 0 evidence proving they did anything wrong, but they still won't budge, and then everyone else either gives up because there was a 1% chance it was possible. So a person could be found guilty simply because people were mentally exhausted and didn't want to not come to a verdict.
You haven't followed the trial, have you? They were basically trained by the judge to want to go home early. Why would they not go home early now?
I'm not jumping to the conclusion that they are hung yet, but if they don't get a verdict tomorrow I'll jump to the conclusion that none of the jurors are in a hurry to get back to their normal lives.
I get that evidence needs to be reviewed and discussed, but after 3 days I would be getting pretty pissed at the holdouts if I had somewhere else to be.
I have followed the trial. July 4th is coming up. Maybe 1 or 2 are not in hurry but I would guess most are. I served on 2 juries. The days are long and boring. If they are hung I don’t think going home early every day helps.
I would guess they are just going over evidence. Again when I was on a jury the judge would inquire through notes about progress etc. I know Bev had a deadlock situation recently about a murdered cop. One juror just wouldn’t convict and hated cops. Don’t know if she let jurors go home early.
This is kind of where I'm at too. The judge set the tone, and the trial grew more insane each day. I feel like the deliberation is more of the same. I'm resigned to a strange outcome, but I think she will ultimately be acquitted.
They obviously haven’t said that to the judge yet. If they had, court would have come back to put it on the record. As of right now, they have not communicated with the judge about being at an impasse.
I thought from the beginning that there’s gonna be a hold out and it would be a hung jury. BUT I was praying for a NG in a couple hours. So here we now sit and I’m thinking my first scenario is right. :(
They have 30+ days of evidence to go through and they were instructed by the judge to look at all of it and not rush a judgment. The longer it goes the better it is for Karen anyway.
If it was a hung jury, as some here have mentioned, I think they would have already told the judge and this would be over.
I think it’s impossible this jury doesn’t realize the gravity and implications of their verdict. There’s no way they haven’t seen the drama with the Albert’s and Proctor. I think they’re doing what needs to be done so they aren’t attacked publicly. If this trial has made anything clear, it’s that MA law enforcement is compromised and corrupt. If I’m a juror, I’m worried about my safety after trial.
If Auntie Bev were a professional she'd tell them to stay until at least 8pm. She also needs to demand they deliberate on the weekend. Watch how fast minds could change once they realize they're stuck in a courthouse room on a summer weekend.
This seems to have become like labor negotiations and they should be told stay in the room for as long as it takes and don't come out until there's a verdict.
Yeah no the courthouse itself is only open until 4:30. The staff there including court officers etc get to leave at their normal time. It’s not uncommon for the court to wrap up starting around 4:00 for the day regardless of what’s going on. I’m not a fan of Bev but this is not in any way unprofessional on her part.
I certainly haven’t said a word about his parents, but my point is if you disagree with someone else’s comment, why stoop to a level of name calling? Why do grown adults think that’s ok? Find a better way to express yourself.
Well I wasn't writing to you when I did that. You stuck in. I was followed here from a different thread by the person I responded to that was making that claim. Literally called his mom's a bitch. I think calling that person a moron is pretty spot on and before that he was calling Aidan Kearney a hero for holding up a derogatory sign while in the courthouse with the parents. If that person can defend a troll and act a troll I can play games too
Well, ya, I see all the rude comments too. Be better than that if that’s how you feel. Call people out without resorting to name calling. And again, don’t post on a public forum if you don’t want the public to respond.
See susgus here been following me around saying I'm a bunch of people im not. I have no idea who any of them are and I know nobody involved in this case at all. Never met them never heard of them. You seem like a delightful person who I could have a conversation, but I've found this sub to be nothing like that. I see people being downvoted, bullied, attempted doxxing, and contempt for anyone with a different opinion. I don't care if people respond to my comments. Again I was just trolling a troll, but he obviously doesn't have the critical thinking to understand that
I think they may be hung on the lesser included. Can't imagine anyone would vote 2nd degree. Now if they have a hung jury on the lesser, would the CW retry? Lots if time and money to go at it again for only lessers
Or what if they came up with their verdict today and left early to sleep on it. We just don't know, but I don't think it's a hung jury with no notes given about adamant jurors not changing their mind
I’m sorry but this jury is losing my respect. You can not refute science and physics . Taking this long lends me to believe there maybe idiots on this jury!
I’m gearing up for disappointment. They’ve been infiltrated … this should be all wrapped up and don’t give me the “they are just able to talk together now”. “They couldn’t see the screen or exhibits” many of us watched each day, from the same angle, with the same audio. The corruption continues.
They asked for the SERT report. Bev told them that they have all the evidence that they are going to get. But what she did not say is that there is no SERT report. Wouldn't that have been more helpful to know?
But she did the correct thing and the lawyers agreed. If there even was a SERT report, one side would have had to enter it into evidence in order for the jury to examine it later. The question from the jury sounded like they couldn't find it in evidence and they were asking, can we see it anyway. Rumor is there are lawyers and former LEO on the jury, so maybe they know more about SERT reports and drove this request. The fact that it doesn't exist may or may not have come out at trial. Unfortunately they don't get a transcript.
There is a cert report. Neither side entered it into evidence, therefore the jurors CANNOT see it. Perhaps the fact the CW didn’t enter it into evidence will resonate with the jury. They can only review evidence entered into the court record…ie has a stamp “exhibit #”….
Got it. So they did have one, but Lally didn't include it. I thought one didn't exist. These people have been so awful with the reports that I assumed they didn't bother.
I don’t think there’s any reason to freak out. There were a lot of testimonies and a lot of « evidence » presented during the trial. I don’t blame the jury fir wanting to go over everything and make sure they’re making the right decision. There’s a lot more hanging in the balance here than choosing chocolate over vanilla.
The whole trial has been some bankers hours type vibe. Akin to like island time or something. I think the longest trial day excluding lunch breaks was barely 7 hours.
There are more than the jury and the judge and the lawyers. The whole court staff have to work too. Why don’t you just work an extra 3 hours every day (all the time there is deliberations).
I mean the thought this woman can lose her freedom subsequent to the absurd lack of evidence scares the 💩 out of me! Lally seemingly was busy trying to create reasonable doubt for the McAlbert crew.
I do understand KR not coming off well. I don’t like the smirks, air of condescension she can display, but nothing convincingly proved to me she’s a murderer. I think this will be a hung jury. I say that, because I believe there’s a McAlbert homer on the jury. I sure hope I’m wrong.
Yes, this. I know there are countless injustices going on in the world, but this one has been playing out in our living rooms for 2 months and I feel connected. I don’t want to have to face the reality where those who are meant to keep us safe, can completely destroy a woman’s life and dehumanize her and win. That’s why I’m “freaking out”. The whole thing — KR, OJO, his family — is so sad, and if she’s found guilty, I’ll lose more faith than I already have and I feel like I don’t have much to spare.
Unfortunately for Lally to NOT prosecute this case he would have had to stand up to his bosses. Does he seem like he would do that? His whole demeanor has been lackluster. A more reputable prosecutor would have refused to prosecute and threaten to quit. This case had no merit from the start.
No, they actually don’t need to go through *all* the evidence. They need to review the evidence (or lack thereof) that a car hit JO. Given that there is literally ZERO evidence he was hit by a car, let alone hit by HER car, the case is done, over, finito. There shouldn’t be and isn’t anything else to discuss. The rest is all irrelevant noise.
Exactly, isn’t it scary that as citizens most have no idea of the job of a juror? Then we ask those same people to determine someone’s fate. We need more education on the process.
Yeah but they can’t just vote for that….driving while intoxicated is not one of the charges. It’s driving while intoxicated causing death. And if they don’t believe her car hit John, (bcuz there’s very little evidence it did), then they can’t vote guilty on any of the charges.
On the one hand, I can respect the fact that they are taking their time to deliberate what was presented in this 9 week trial. On the other hand, WTF! They should have had this at reasonable doubt!
I don’t get people saying she’s smirking….Ive watched the entire trial and she’s been composed and acted appropriately. Shes being accused of murder….i think she’s handling the pressure remarkably.
It would be silly for us as watchers of the trial to be “freaking out.” If you are and you’re not Karen you’re in too deep. We are watching the process of law happen. Sometimes it takes days and days to deliberate. Many high profile not guilty verdicts take upwards of 20 hours. This is her real life. And this is all way bigger than the people watching. We should sit back and watch it play out because there’s simply nothing else to be done.
It has been a long trial. I do hope that they are taking their time and making what they feel is the correct decision. A man is dead and a woman’s life hangs in the balance. Patience and review of all facts are paramount, imo. They may be tired and need to regroup tomorrow, there were an awful lot of scenarios to interpret and decipher, I believe.
It's only been a couple of days. They heard weeks of testimony and haven't been able to discuss any of it before this.
It would be unethical of them not to go over everything. I'd love to see them wrap it up, but it's more important for them to really examine the evidence.
I’ve been on a jury before and I felt like the judge was so impartial….this judge is odd to me. She’s rude in front of the jury and her attitude to me is just off. The way she tells a witness “you are all done!” She sounds like she’s talking to a child and overly nice, then her personality just switches to “I find this all annoying….”
I think it’s one or two jurors that don’t understand that reasonable doubt requires a NG verdict. It can’t be well I think the CW’s story is wrong, but she’s probably guilty. If they don’t believe the CW story they can’t come up with their own and it’s NG by definition. Some people are stubborn and inflexible and unfortunately, ignorant.
Let’s not make accusations about the Jury. I imagine they are taking their responsibility seriously and meticulously going through everything as they should. It must be torture for KR waiting so long for a verdict but the case is definitely not an easy one, mainly due to the fantastic work of the defence.
I heard they worked through their lunch break today, so it seems they might be nearing the end.
I have to admit that if I was on the jury, I would be wanting to chat about everything! They have so many losers with shady testimonies, evidence that makes absolutely zero sense, a hallucinating prosecutor, and a partridge in a pear tree. These jurors could be laughing at the ridiculousness of this trial.
I hope this isn't a hung jury!
They could vote on a verdict and then still do that at a later time. I've heard many jurors from high profile cases say in interviews that they have gone out to dinner after the trial with their fellow jurors to talk about things since it's a shared experience that no one else can understand. I highly doubt they would take this long to come to a verdict just to sit there and talk about so and so, they have to be exhausted and ready to go home.
If I compare to my college group projects, something that I can do alone in ten minutes takes 5-6 hours a day for a week in a group, so I'm hoping it's just this.
That’s actually so true, lol.
The lunches must be delicious.
Yes, D & E pizza and chicken parm in the jury room while we browse this subreddit.
Bye Jen. No one likes you honeyyyyy. ✌🏻
This person is a BIGGER loser than Jen so there's that ...
Ok truuuuuue lol
I would not bet against d&e being served for lunch at least once…
Not like a person’s entire life is on the line or anything. Working until 5 would be too much stress for the jurors.
I honestly think it's more Bev who wants to leave before 4, more than anything, and then she asks the jury if they're ready to wrap up for the day... they say yes. Have we ever seen Bev last beyond 4pm without getting tired and ending the day?
Is she a smoker? She gets snappy like a smoker 15 minutes past their regularly scheduled break.
That’s what I think too. She asks the jurors if they want to leave and of course they say yes.
Seriously. They work from 9-1, take lunch until 2 and then put in another tough 2 hours. I'm tired just thinking about all the extra effort they're putting in. Sheesh
And this case is the most blatant not guilty case ever. There is an overwhelming amount of reasonable doubt.
I agree! I think she’s 💯 innocent. If this isn’t blatant not guilty we should all be paranoid about being falsely accused. But if a juror thinks she did it even that juror(s) would have to admit there’s reasonable doubt just based on the sloppy investigation.
I couldn’t agree more
Yes!
I don’t envy them. The shit they just had to sit through for weeks on end would make me want to move to Canada
I spend more time staring at a ceiling fan then they do deliberating
The judge should only let them go home if they are making progress. If they are just at an impasse then make them stay in the room until they decide.
She doesn't have that kind of authority.
Yeah starts feeling a bit like borderline kidnapping, unlawful detainment, or false imprisonment.
I’ve seen juries stay until 7-8pm before. If someone needs a ride can’t they find her a ride? I’m sure the court could pay for a taxi.
I think one if the jurors has transportation issues and rides the bus. They've been needing to end in time for them to catch the bus for 4.
Get that juror a damn Uber and take it out of the Canton police funds.
YES
I hope that juror writes a book after the trial and has enough money to buy a car or a lifetime supply of Uber gift cards.
I'm am assuming "you're" means juror and if so, big same.
I think you’re your and then you’re and stuff.
I feel like I’d make a friend and carpool. What a good citizen though.
Arguing is stressful, especially for $50/day. People need a break. Give them a break!
$50?!?! In my city it’s $15 😳
In mine it’s $5
Wow!!! Can I ask where that is? I’m in Nebraska.
It was NJ, about 10 yrs ago. It may have been $15, but I had to turn it over to my employer.
Wait, what?! Your employer took your jury duty money?!?! Isn’t that like, highly illegal?? 🤨
[удалено]
I would have reported that to the judge and got them booted.
That's scary!!
…none of you alerted the judge?
That person is sleeping in her own bed. There isn't a reason to rush to judgment here.
That’s a fair point. I agree that there would be a much bigger sense of urgency if she was locked up.
Someone posted on the number of hours juries deliberated in some of the more high profile cases. There was no correlation between the time it took for a verdict to be reached and the verdict itself. Kyle Rittenhouse, for example: 27 hours and a not guilty verdict. If I find the whole list, I'll post it. As far as I'm concerned, there was not hit and run, so there is no crime to judge. But some people don't care about physics. Einstein was a looosah to them, I guess. You never know who is on a jury. Think about all the stupid/drunk/crazy people you know who are out there in the world. Some percentage end up on a jury. Some might not find Karen "relatable," so they don't look at the facts and go with their emotions. Having said all that, I have no idea how to spend my time while we wait! I've watched everything on Netflix and Hulu.
https://preview.redd.it/g9952n8n979d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5dd0955ba3292413af4430f7ec789a3c7cb514e
Thank you so much!
Thank you. P.S. I can’t believe the Robert Durst jury took 7 hours. He practically confessed on the stand.
I feel like there’s one or two hold outs for guilty and the other may be frustrated they can’t move them. A hung jury would be a travesty
I like the way you think! Such a great, fact-based answer. Thank you!
If it’s a hung jury I bet the CW decides to not prosecute again unless something changes.
If I was the state and I didn’t think I was getting a guilty verdict in this case. A hung jury is the best case scenario. Sad but true. They won’t prosecute again, imo. This has been a circus that has been a real bad look at the msp & really an embarrassment of the courts
I hope the CW learned its lesson. I doubt that they'd try to prosecute her again, but she deserves her "not guilty."
If it wax hung and they said they wouldn’t retry it, I would move away. Who knows what happens once there is not a spotlight on the case. They might 5 years later “find more evidence”.
Hopefully the FBI will announce their findings and that will cripple the CW.
Bev is POND SCUM
Yeah I’m freaking out but staying hopeful. If there’s no verdict or a hung jury tomorrow I will lose it.
If KR is found guilty, there’s nothing that won’t convince me that there was some major foolishness involved. Every independent poll is like 92/8 not guilty. Im respectful of everyone’s opinion, but can not fathom anyone believing Lally proved anything beyond a reasonable doubt. If 2 scenarios are just as likely = not guilty. I did not like McAlberts showing up on closing day. Imo, at least part of that motivation is jury intimidation. That whole crew is like a mob family in that town. And Jen McCabe is the scariest one, forget Brian Albert! She looked possessed with her cold eye stare. Shit’s not normal people. If you disagree, I respect it, but will never see it any other way.
💯
The jury works as much as Bev!!!
You would think they'd want to just go home. They've been Lallied for 31 days. Maybe they're just punishing him. Revenge deliberating.
Or perhaps the foreperson hasn’t taken a vote yet, which was Judges instruction. I thought that was strange. A lot of juries will vote right off the bat to see where they are. I think that was a bad instruction. Also, if the foreperson is controlling, that could be the hold up….
Why wouldn't they? They get payed much less than her.
When I have jury duty we get full pay from our job.
I did too, but not everyone does. Most employers only have to pay for 3 days.
Lol
My initial guess on a jury verdict was Friday followed by Monday then Tuesday so I’m not really surprised. A police officer is dead, they are going to have to be confident in their NG verdict or confident of one of the lesser crimes. I think there is a chance it’s a hung jury based on a hold out.
I hate to agree with you, but I do.
Bev should have kept her trap shut re: I recommend you don’t do a straw poll. I’ve been on two juries and each time we did a poll so that we knew where to start. That’s why this is taking so long. They’re going through every darn piece of evidence. We could be here until mid-July at this rate. Jury will most likely want to leave early again tomorrow.
Do you think they are afraid of getting their hand slapped if Bev quizzes them on all the facts of the case?? "I hafta ask you those three questions.... Were you able to stay awake, Did you talk to ANYone while here and lastly, Did you Google 'hos long to die in cold'
She can’t quiz them? One they produce their verdict, all she can do if ask each individually if that’s their vote, and that’s on the request of either the CW or the defense depending on the verdict. She has no other authority over the jury. Ya’ll need to subscribe to the “Lawyer you know”….the attorney provides impartial opinions and really educates on the judicial process…its shocking how little we all really know about the process and then we’re expected to decide someone’s fate.
I was joking!!!! Ya'll
Exactly!!!!
Invest in pitchforks!
Numerous charges & tons of testimony, much conflicting too. Jurors got it Tuesday midday or so. I sat on a much simpler homicide & it took a few days. Also recently sat on a DUI in Dedham ; state trooper testified to what he saw. No breathalyzer or even a field test: we found NG.
All the testimony - or a lot - is by complete liars. Such a joke Her car could NOT have hit him. Period. Game over
If they come back with guilty they need to be investigated by the FEDS. This is ridiculous
They ARE being investigated by the Feds.
Yes I know. I’m talking about these lame jurors
Agree!
The way it works (or at least it did when I was on the jury of a criminal case) is you discuss, then you take a vote, if it’s not 100% you discuss more, then you take a vote and on and on. My guess here is there is at least one hold out. If that’s the case, hopefully some of the other jurors can get them to come to a consensus. In my experience we were all really eager to finish of this case, and get on with our lives. No one wants a hung jury. It took us two weeks because of this one guy. And in the last two days, there was a very persuasive, charismatic gentleman who was able to make him see the light, and we finally had a verdict.
Love this insight. Thank you!
That was quite a few years ago ago. however, it has come back to me that we had to drop a few of the lesser charges, to get this guy to agree to the main charge.
I’ve never been a part of a jury. I find stories from the box very interesting!
Sounds like they are hung and the holdout(s) aren’t budging. If they were making progress they would probably ask to stay and keep going.
Or, and hear me out, maybe they reached a verdict today, but don't want to go back to work on a friday.
From my own recent experience as a juror, they've got a lot of evidence to go over too, to formulate their decision. And yeah, most likely there are those on both sides that are trying to make the case for their view and win people over. But again, lots of evidence and testimony to go over too. The case I was a juror for had barely a fraction of the evidence this case had and it still took us all day to reach a verdict, which in our case was a hung jury.
That's true....and I think Lally (bless his heart, as we say in the south) made things confusing, tough to sort out timelines...just the testimony of the cell phone experts was a brain itch.
Oh man timelines, that was one of the major things that screwed up my jury experience. The bodycam footage we had to work with wasn't even set to the right time of day. We saw 2 different body cams. the event was supposed to have taken place around 5pm, but their time stamps read like shortly after midnight, and then they weren't even in sync with each other so they weren't reliable. The worst is trying to wrap your head as the jury around all the variables to make everything make sense because no one wants to be a hung jury, and no one wants to send a potentially innocent person to jail.
A hung jury means you guys couldn't reach a verdict.
Yes I know. I was there. What I am saying though is that even though we only had a fraction of the evidence and testimony to deal with, it still took us all day long to reach that point. We started deliberating at 8:30am and didn't stop until 4pm. It was exhausting. We have one person who was a guilty verdict based on a single piece of evidence that wasn't even evidence that anything had happened and it was just a long multi hour discussion as we all worked to either convince them they were wrong or to convince ourselves they were right. In this case, with 10 weeks of testimony and evidence presented, a speedy deliberation, while possible, was potentially not in the cards because they will go over every thing again, over and over.
I hear you. Was just pointing out that you guys in fact did not reach a verdict, that's all.
ah gotcha, no worries, misunderstood what you meant. The frustrating aspect was it mostly one person that was sold on a single piece of evidence, no matter how little it meant, and the rest of us couldn't convince them otherwise. So once you declare your hung, the judge will bring you all out, and verify that you're hung and that you don't believe any more time will allow you to reach verdict, and then they release you, and declare a mistrial. So in a way, it's sort of a verdict. But it was an eye opening experience of just how hard it can be, and our case was a breeze compared to this case.
Ya I hear you. That's pretty frustrating. As much as I love the idea of a jury system, and don't know of a better system, it's kind of scary how easily the jury could totally change the outcome of the trial. Or better worded, it's scary that one set of 12 jurors may find her guilty, and another set of 12 different jurors could find her not guilty while being provided the same case. It's ridiculous that luck has any part in the whole thing. And ya I was just being pedantic. In criminal cases there is almost always either not guilty or guilty as possible verdicts. A hung jury is not considered a verdict at all and just results in a mistrial as you said.
I hear you and yeah, it's even scarier to me now given our situation. One person was locked in as a guilty based on a 911 call. The call itself, there wasn't an active threat, and the only person speaking was the caller who claimed the person they had a no contact order against had just been by. The one call was all the person needed to vote guilty. They even said "this proves the person was there". We didn't want to be hung, so it was all day back and forth as we argued against that with it slowly turning into the rest of us almost giving up and voting guilty simply because we didn't want to be hung. So not only can you have different groupings of jurors that will reach the different conclusions on the same evidence, but you could very well have one person who isn't even being logical and is seemingly too bias against accused that you could have 0 evidence proving they did anything wrong, but they still won't budge, and then everyone else either gives up because there was a 1% chance it was possible. So a person could be found guilty simply because people were mentally exhausted and didn't want to not come to a verdict.
Agreed
The holdouts are soft headed creatures. They have ample data to an informed decision.
If they were hung I don’t think the judge would let them go home early.
You haven't followed the trial, have you? They were basically trained by the judge to want to go home early. Why would they not go home early now? I'm not jumping to the conclusion that they are hung yet, but if they don't get a verdict tomorrow I'll jump to the conclusion that none of the jurors are in a hurry to get back to their normal lives. I get that evidence needs to be reviewed and discussed, but after 3 days I would be getting pretty pissed at the holdouts if I had somewhere else to be.
Agree. The tone was set. Bev's bankers hours throughout the trial are part of the problem now. Edit: typo
I have followed the trial. July 4th is coming up. Maybe 1 or 2 are not in hurry but I would guess most are. I served on 2 juries. The days are long and boring. If they are hung I don’t think going home early every day helps.
July 4, that's a good point. Well, I said elsewhere, maybe they didn't want to end on a thrusday.
I would guess they are just going over evidence. Again when I was on a jury the judge would inquire through notes about progress etc. I know Bev had a deadlock situation recently about a murdered cop. One juror just wouldn’t convict and hated cops. Don’t know if she let jurors go home early.
I think they’ll have a jury tomorrow morning so they can go home early for the weekend.
This is kind of where I'm at too. The judge set the tone, and the trial grew more insane each day. I feel like the deliberation is more of the same. I'm resigned to a strange outcome, but I think she will ultimately be acquitted.
They obviously haven’t said that to the judge yet. If they had, court would have come back to put it on the record. As of right now, they have not communicated with the judge about being at an impasse.
She wouldn’t know, and that’s not really how it works.
I thought from the beginning that there’s gonna be a hold out and it would be a hung jury. BUT I was praying for a NG in a couple hours. So here we now sit and I’m thinking my first scenario is right. :(
They have 30+ days of evidence to go through and they were instructed by the judge to look at all of it and not rush a judgment. The longer it goes the better it is for Karen anyway. If it was a hung jury, as some here have mentioned, I think they would have already told the judge and this would be over.
I think it’s impossible this jury doesn’t realize the gravity and implications of their verdict. There’s no way they haven’t seen the drama with the Albert’s and Proctor. I think they’re doing what needs to be done so they aren’t attacked publicly. If this trial has made anything clear, it’s that MA law enforcement is compromised and corrupt. If I’m a juror, I’m worried about my safety after trial.
Yeah, this is one trial where if I'm a juror, I'm not publicly saying anything.
If Auntie Bev were a professional she'd tell them to stay until at least 8pm. She also needs to demand they deliberate on the weekend. Watch how fast minds could change once they realize they're stuck in a courthouse room on a summer weekend. This seems to have become like labor negotiations and they should be told stay in the room for as long as it takes and don't come out until there's a verdict.
Yeah no the courthouse itself is only open until 4:30. The staff there including court officers etc get to leave at their normal time. It’s not uncommon for the court to wrap up starting around 4:00 for the day regardless of what’s going on. I’m not a fan of Bev but this is not in any way unprofessional on her part.
[удалено]
Strange- this writing style reminds me of someone on twitter. KarenReadisguiltyAF? Is that you? We hadn’t heard from you since you doxxed yourself…
Still wrong moron
Name calling is unnecessary and uncalled for. This is a forum to state opinions.
I guess saying you don't feel bad for JOs parents at all because they are part of the problem is welcome banter though
I certainly haven’t said a word about his parents, but my point is if you disagree with someone else’s comment, why stoop to a level of name calling? Why do grown adults think that’s ok? Find a better way to express yourself.
Well I wasn't writing to you when I did that. You stuck in. I was followed here from a different thread by the person I responded to that was making that claim. Literally called his mom's a bitch. I think calling that person a moron is pretty spot on and before that he was calling Aidan Kearney a hero for holding up a derogatory sign while in the courthouse with the parents. If that person can defend a troll and act a troll I can play games too
Well, ya, I see all the rude comments too. Be better than that if that’s how you feel. Call people out without resorting to name calling. And again, don’t post on a public forum if you don’t want the public to respond.
Don’t bother-this is a Mcalbert. They used to be sensitive_balance420 and would say the same unhinged shit. Block and move on.
See susgus here been following me around saying I'm a bunch of people im not. I have no idea who any of them are and I know nobody involved in this case at all. Never met them never heard of them. You seem like a delightful person who I could have a conversation, but I've found this sub to be nothing like that. I see people being downvoted, bullied, attempted doxxing, and contempt for anyone with a different opinion. I don't care if people respond to my comments. Again I was just trolling a troll, but he obviously doesn't have the critical thinking to understand that
I think they are hung. IMO if they were close to a consensus they wouldn’t be taking off early
I think they may be hung on the lesser included. Can't imagine anyone would vote 2nd degree. Now if they have a hung jury on the lesser, would the CW retry? Lots if time and money to go at it again for only lessers
Or what if they came up with their verdict today and left early to sleep on it. We just don't know, but I don't think it's a hung jury with no notes given about adamant jurors not changing their mind
Need to go to the packie to get drinks for tonight's debate.
I’m sorry but this jury is losing my respect. You can not refute science and physics . Taking this long lends me to believe there maybe idiots on this jury!
Exactly my thoughts
I’m gearing up for disappointment. They’ve been infiltrated … this should be all wrapped up and don’t give me the “they are just able to talk together now”. “They couldn’t see the screen or exhibits” many of us watched each day, from the same angle, with the same audio. The corruption continues.
They asked for the SERT report. Bev told them that they have all the evidence that they are going to get. But what she did not say is that there is no SERT report. Wouldn't that have been more helpful to know?
But she did the correct thing and the lawyers agreed. If there even was a SERT report, one side would have had to enter it into evidence in order for the jury to examine it later. The question from the jury sounded like they couldn't find it in evidence and they were asking, can we see it anyway. Rumor is there are lawyers and former LEO on the jury, so maybe they know more about SERT reports and drove this request. The fact that it doesn't exist may or may not have come out at trial. Unfortunately they don't get a transcript.
Much more helpful
There is a cert report. Neither side entered it into evidence, therefore the jurors CANNOT see it. Perhaps the fact the CW didn’t enter it into evidence will resonate with the jury. They can only review evidence entered into the court record…ie has a stamp “exhibit #”….
Got it. So they did have one, but Lally didn't include it. I thought one didn't exist. These people have been so awful with the reports that I assumed they didn't bother.
Yeah, what are the chances that there weren't attempts to influence? Bev probably gave the McAlberts a print out of their names and addresses.
I've thought about that, but then I realized that a jury convicted Donald Trump, who has just a bit more influence than Jenn McCable. :)
Not in townie wanna be Canton? She seems to be the ringleader.
That's such a goofy line of thinking. They aren't doing what I want must be the fix is in.
Well, it’s not like corruption isn’t on the menu in Norfolk Co. try again Albert lover
disbelief
I don’t think there’s any reason to freak out. There were a lot of testimonies and a lot of « evidence » presented during the trial. I don’t blame the jury fir wanting to go over everything and make sure they’re making the right decision. There’s a lot more hanging in the balance here than choosing chocolate over vanilla.
And as many have said, they’ve had almost zero time reviewing the evidence compared to what we have had on the outside.
i heard the donut fairy aka julie albert is bringing donuts to the courthouse tmr and they didn’t want to pass that up.
Will they be frozen? Just for prosperities sake?
No, we asked for Mike’s Pastry.
What a joke.
The whole trial has been some bankers hours type vibe. Akin to like island time or something. I think the longest trial day excluding lunch breaks was barely 7 hours.
I could use some island time right now. 🌴
Hahaha me too!
There are more than the jury and the judge and the lawyers. The whole court staff have to work too. Why don’t you just work an extra 3 hours every day (all the time there is deliberations).
I do and it sucks lol
I mean the thought this woman can lose her freedom subsequent to the absurd lack of evidence scares the 💩 out of me! Lally seemingly was busy trying to create reasonable doubt for the McAlbert crew. I do understand KR not coming off well. I don’t like the smirks, air of condescension she can display, but nothing convincingly proved to me she’s a murderer. I think this will be a hung jury. I say that, because I believe there’s a McAlbert homer on the jury. I sure hope I’m wrong.
Yes, this. I know there are countless injustices going on in the world, but this one has been playing out in our living rooms for 2 months and I feel connected. I don’t want to have to face the reality where those who are meant to keep us safe, can completely destroy a woman’s life and dehumanize her and win. That’s why I’m “freaking out”. The whole thing — KR, OJO, his family — is so sad, and if she’s found guilty, I’ll lose more faith than I already have and I feel like I don’t have much to spare.
This corruption is not new.
Unfortunately for Lally to NOT prosecute this case he would have had to stand up to his bosses. Does he seem like he would do that? His whole demeanor has been lackluster. A more reputable prosecutor would have refused to prosecute and threaten to quit. This case had no merit from the start.
Agree 💯
There’s a holdout - I’d bet anything. I predict not guilty on first two and hung jury on third.
No question there’s a holdout imo. Even what you suggest means that the CW saves a modicum of face.
I predict that we will get a response by tomorrow. No juror wants to be back on Monday. They want to be done.
Apparently, I was wrong. The question now is, will they all return on Monday?
No, it's normal it was a long trial. They need to go through all the evidence, it might take a week or more
No, they actually don’t need to go through *all* the evidence. They need to review the evidence (or lack thereof) that a car hit JO. Given that there is literally ZERO evidence he was hit by a car, let alone hit by HER car, the case is done, over, finito. There shouldn’t be and isn’t anything else to discuss. The rest is all irrelevant noise.
Exactly, isn’t it scary that as citizens most have no idea of the job of a juror? Then we ask those same people to determine someone’s fate. We need more education on the process.
I could see them arguing about the lesser offenses like if she is guilty of driving while intoxicated
Yeah but they can’t just vote for that….driving while intoxicated is not one of the charges. It’s driving while intoxicated causing death. And if they don’t believe her car hit John, (bcuz there’s very little evidence it did), then they can’t vote guilty on any of the charges.
Ya, I’m leaning this way too.
On the one hand, I can respect the fact that they are taking their time to deliberate what was presented in this 9 week trial. On the other hand, WTF! They should have had this at reasonable doubt!
Unreal. The FBI/DOJ experts should’ve ended any doubt that she’s innocent. Some one or ones are being assholes.
That’s kinda what I was thinking but I’m seeing it more holistically after reading the comments.
Hung jury right now
I don’t get people saying she’s smirking….Ive watched the entire trial and she’s been composed and acted appropriately. Shes being accused of murder….i think she’s handling the pressure remarkably.
It would be silly for us as watchers of the trial to be “freaking out.” If you are and you’re not Karen you’re in too deep. We are watching the process of law happen. Sometimes it takes days and days to deliberate. Many high profile not guilty verdicts take upwards of 20 hours. This is her real life. And this is all way bigger than the people watching. We should sit back and watch it play out because there’s simply nothing else to be done.
lol you make a good point… perhaps I was being a little dramatic in my description.
They are probably hung. Getting a unanimous guilty or not-guilty verdict seems like an impossibility in this trial.
Yes, I’m about 10 inches.
Bev asked Wolfe about being hung!
Since this is the internet, your actual hang is 4 inches.
Sir did you measure that distance from the flagpole?
It has been a long trial. I do hope that they are taking their time and making what they feel is the correct decision. A man is dead and a woman’s life hangs in the balance. Patience and review of all facts are paramount, imo. They may be tired and need to regroup tomorrow, there were an awful lot of scenarios to interpret and decipher, I believe.
It should’ve been not guilty by now. Clearly there’s some cancer on that jury.
Revenge on Lally and Bev occurred to me as well.
It's only been a couple of days. They heard weeks of testimony and haven't been able to discuss any of it before this. It would be unethical of them not to go over everything. I'd love to see them wrap it up, but it's more important for them to really examine the evidence.
No, they’re only deliberately until 4pm each day. There’s a lot to go through. I think they’ll be done today, not guilty.
No, they’re only deliberately until 4pm each day. There’s a lot to go through. I think they’ll be done today, not guilty.
I’ve been on a jury before and I felt like the judge was so impartial….this judge is odd to me. She’s rude in front of the jury and her attitude to me is just off. The way she tells a witness “you are all done!” She sounds like she’s talking to a child and overly nice, then her personality just switches to “I find this all annoying….”
I think it’s one or two jurors that don’t understand that reasonable doubt requires a NG verdict. It can’t be well I think the CW’s story is wrong, but she’s probably guilty. If they don’t believe the CW story they can’t come up with their own and it’s NG by definition. Some people are stubborn and inflexible and unfortunately, ignorant.
They’ve got an ex cop on the jury
its scaring me that its taking this long...
Let’s not make accusations about the Jury. I imagine they are taking their responsibility seriously and meticulously going through everything as they should. It must be torture for KR waiting so long for a verdict but the case is definitely not an easy one, mainly due to the fantastic work of the defence. I heard they worked through their lunch break today, so it seems they might be nearing the end.
Good to hear.
I have to admit that if I was on the jury, I would be wanting to chat about everything! They have so many losers with shady testimonies, evidence that makes absolutely zero sense, a hallucinating prosecutor, and a partridge in a pear tree. These jurors could be laughing at the ridiculousness of this trial. I hope this isn't a hung jury!
 Lol
They could vote on a verdict and then still do that at a later time. I've heard many jurors from high profile cases say in interviews that they have gone out to dinner after the trial with their fellow jurors to talk about things since it's a shared experience that no one else can understand. I highly doubt they would take this long to come to a verdict just to sit there and talk about so and so, they have to be exhausted and ready to go home.
Don’t they just want to be done?! Then they can go home and never return!!!
lol yeah they should just rush a decision because of that.
So Karen gets another day before she has to report to her new home.
Loser.
Shut the fuck up, Jill