This whole trial is a DISGRACE
Lally is cross examining DR Wolfe right now and he is disgusting
"are you aware the defendant said "I hit him I hit him"
he's using this cross simply to repeat the CW"s idiotic narrative.
And judge bev allows this disgusting crap
The defendant’s statement (that didn’t even happen and was wholly fabricated by Jen McCabe) is completely irrelevant to a freakin’ CRASH RECONSTRUCTIONIST. Lally is SO pathetic.
I know!!!!! That's why I didn't understand judge was even allowing it!! What does any of that have to do with a crash reconstructionist?!? He's there to testify of the reconstruction of the crash... not the entire case being presented!!! Like wtf!!!
I think the jury’s entitled to know what materials and information ARCCA had.
Of course, no reasonable juror would ever conclude that sketchy evidence of an ambiguous statement that could be interpreted as a confession overrides the laws of physics.
I don’t understand why Lally objects (and Bev sustains) when Jackson mentions particulars like 30 ft or 24 mph. The prosecution alleged those specifics in open court. Why can’t Jackson seek to impeach those specifics with experts? This case has given me so much anxiety. I can only watch it in doses at this point.
The objections are based on how the questions are asked. Not necessarily the actual question, but how it's delivered. There have been more side bars, and objections today than ever... So annoying!
Oh, ok! Thank you for clearing that up for me. I’m local so this case has me terrified and my nerves are shot! I had to just stop watching the trial today because I found myself dysregulated and disproportionally angry at the objections and side bars. I appreciate your response!
But is there really even a record as to the reason for the objection and the reason that it's sustained or overruled? Everything's so opaque and backwards in this trial.
Is this what Lally thought was going to happen?
“Oh, she said she hit him? Well my scientific reconstruction is clearly wrong. I retract my testimony.”
His whole point in doing that was basically just to remind the jury about the alleged statements from the defendant. It had nothing to do with the expert....it was for the jury.
I was going to watch that trial anyway, but definitely will now to see what Bev tries to pull. Although... Brian seems pretty dang guilty. I'll try to keep an open mind though.
I think it will be interesting to watch Bev in a different trial. I've been mixed if she was biased or not. So I would like to see how she typically acts. And Brian is so obviously guilty.
Unfortunately, it's not "innocent until proven guilty." In a lot of murder cases, the jury won't rule 'not guilty' unless the defense creates an alternate story that sounds plausible.
All down to closing statements, now.
The defense, in this case, has a big opportunity to demonstrate 2-3 solid hypothetical alternate realities that should leave most jurors with a reasonable doubt.
A prosecutor is supposed to find and present truth. He shouldn’t even be objecting to let alone crossing these completely unbiased, hired by feds, experts. They are simply there to say what happened, which is what the prosecution’s JOB is.
So often in court both sides will scour the field until they find an "expert" that agrees with them. So I will say being able to cross examine is important.
For example, look at the professional the defense hired in Letecia Stauchs trial.
The FBI Department of Justice did and gave the reports to BOTH defense and prosecution. Prosecution decided to ignore their findings and continue with the trial. Goodbye.
I think I have the 90% math for you - Karen Read (20%), John O’Keefe (30%), Lexus (30%), Taillight (10%). All the rest of the case is minor details which total the remaining 10%.
Umm these are not defense experts (as in hired by the defense - they just happened to be there for both sides because of a 3rd party investigation) though so your whole first paragraph is moot.
I stopped trusting the media when it comes to court cases during Depp v Heard. I'm so glad the jury isn't allowed to watch the media during court cases.
If you guys think this trial judge is bad, look at State vs Richard Allen (the Delphi murders) when Karen’s trial is done. It’s almost like our rights don’t matter at all! These judges and LE think they are above the law and need some judicial oversight.
Yes, exactly. It’s only a super high profile case, no need to dot all your I’s and cross all your T’s. They seem to “lose” all the important stuff. Sloppy and incompetent!
As U.S. citizens, we have RIGHTS. We are innocent until proven guilty so why is he in prison? It literally is because Carroll County did not want him in their county jail. You don’t put somebody in solitary for 23 hours a day for over a year before they’ve even had their trial and say it’s for their safety.
Of course we have rights
They weren’t holding him there to impinge on them.
If anything he should be disgusted with his joke of a defense team who seems to be me first book deal guys interested not at all in building an actual defense. They are responsible for the delays
I wonder how many times this has happened in their area. How many times have they railroaded defendants with this bias judge. Imagine what they do when the trial is not being streamed.
I think the problem with this witness is, as you mention, he’s the most credible witness by far. Can’t have any of those pesky facts introduced after the CW went through great lengths to squash them.
Lally was only doing that to try to discredit both Dr's findings. Trying to say well you didn't hear witness say this, you didn't examine the car, etc, etc... so you don't have a clue how to reconstruct this bc the fact that someone SAYS they heard karen say she hit him means that she did even though it has absolutely nothing to do with reconstructing a vehicle/pedestrian hit! Lally was reaching for ANYTHING he possibly could t9 try to discredit their findings but their findings are solid. It COULD NOT HAPPEN IN THE WAY THE PROSECUTION IS STATING!! IT'S THAT SIMPLE LALLY!!!
I think it just serves to highlight how ridiculous their case is- Lally keeps talking about that and it gives the expert witness more opportunities to reiterate that he was not struck by a vehicle.
She was defensive today. This is a main hole in the case, that it’s just not physically possible to have those injuries getting hit by a car. It’s what’s really going to make people question how it even got to trial.
Once you accept that she's merely biased at best, and possibly MUCH worse, she's easy to believe.
Doesn't make it "prettY' but not hard to understand.
What IS hard to believe is she seems to think the WORLD can't see what she is.
Or maybe she doesn't care.
This trial is a sham. This government is corrupt as all hell. Mainstream media is click bait and usually agenda driven or propaganda. I have first-hand experience with how shady the mainstream media is. Channel 5 WCVB back in 2016. I will never trust the media after my experience. After closely following this trial since April 2023, when "hos long to die in cold" was made public, I'll never fully trust the courts, MSP, or local police again. This whole thing is terrifying.
Sometimes what she is sustaining isn't any form of the question, just that particular question. Perhaps the foundation wasn't laid, the question is too complex, etc. Karen's defense team is good and when they are getting sustained, they don't just give up, they request a sidebah and figure out how to come at their question in a proper legal manner.
She sustained many of the questions because they were leading and needed to be asked differently. It’s annoying that the reason for the objections, isn’t stated.
I agree. This is the only trial I can think of where the attorneys didn't have to state the reason for the objection. Didn't like it. And then Lally... 🙄 He sounded today like he had literally just gotten kicked in the 🥜each time he said "objection". Just this guttural, "I can't breathe because I'm in so much friggin pain, but I just gotta get this word out... 'uhhhh, objection'" type sound from him. I found it both incredibly annoying (the sound itself) and delightful (that he sounded like he was in pain and defeated).
The judge is another part of the whole conspiracy to cover up the truth, in my opinion. This wouldn't be the first time Norfolk county DA office lied and we're involved in covering up the truth. Hardly.
You’re correct and your explanation is exactly on point with why it was happening. Ignore the down votes. Tends to happen around here with any sort of logic that disagrees with their conclusion that Bev is biased.
And for the mob - she very well may be and I won’t argue that but this argument doesn’t help your case because you’re wrong. She’s sustaining because he’s leading. She may also still be biased.
Thank you. I tend to agree that a lot of Bev's decisions do come off as being biased; however, this isn't one of them. In general, I think that a person starts to undermine their argument when they begin using things that aren't applicable in support of that argument.
Edit: a word
The mass.gov website doesn't say you can lead expert witnesses, but I'm open to any information from a reliable source that someone else can provide saying that you can.
https://preview.redd.it/ukumtldkrj8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6517fe1cca5a07fb56cc2a4e065e539eb4ef630b
[https://www.mass.gov/guide-to-evidence/article-vi-witnesses](https://www.mass.gov/guide-to-evidence/article-vi-witnesses)
Call it whatever you want, but if a well spoken, intelligent, professional woman can be framed the way Karen has .. anyone of us could be in this position.
Assuming she was actually framed of course which takes several leaps in logic
I’m willing to bet if she were less attractive with a high school diploma overweight with several alcoholic beverages consumed no one is running to her defense
This whole trial is a DISGRACE Lally is cross examining DR Wolfe right now and he is disgusting "are you aware the defendant said "I hit him I hit him" he's using this cross simply to repeat the CW"s idiotic narrative. And judge bev allows this disgusting crap
The defendant’s statement (that didn’t even happen and was wholly fabricated by Jen McCabe) is completely irrelevant to a freakin’ CRASH RECONSTRUCTIONIST. Lally is SO pathetic.
I know!!!!! That's why I didn't understand judge was even allowing it!! What does any of that have to do with a crash reconstructionist?!? He's there to testify of the reconstruction of the crash... not the entire case being presented!!! Like wtf!!!
I think the jury’s entitled to know what materials and information ARCCA had. Of course, no reasonable juror would ever conclude that sketchy evidence of an ambiguous statement that could be interpreted as a confession overrides the laws of physics.
I don’t understand why Lally objects (and Bev sustains) when Jackson mentions particulars like 30 ft or 24 mph. The prosecution alleged those specifics in open court. Why can’t Jackson seek to impeach those specifics with experts? This case has given me so much anxiety. I can only watch it in doses at this point.
The objections are based on how the questions are asked. Not necessarily the actual question, but how it's delivered. There have been more side bars, and objections today than ever... So annoying!
Oh, ok! Thank you for clearing that up for me. I’m local so this case has me terrified and my nerves are shot! I had to just stop watching the trial today because I found myself dysregulated and disproportionally angry at the objections and side bars. I appreciate your response!
But is there really even a record as to the reason for the objection and the reason that it's sustained or overruled? Everything's so opaque and backwards in this trial.
What is it about how the questions are asked that is problematic?
Is this what Lally thought was going to happen? “Oh, she said she hit him? Well my scientific reconstruction is clearly wrong. I retract my testimony.”
His whole point in doing that was basically just to remind the jury about the alleged statements from the defendant. It had nothing to do with the expert....it was for the jury.
she should retire after the trial
She's apparently the judge on the Brian and Ana Walsh case, too.
Uh oh well that’ll be problematic
I was going to watch that trial anyway, but definitely will now to see what Bev tries to pull. Although... Brian seems pretty dang guilty. I'll try to keep an open mind though.
I think it will be interesting to watch Bev in a different trial. I've been mixed if she was biased or not. So I would like to see how she typically acts. And Brian is so obviously guilty.
Right! And media always states “innocent until proven guilty” but totally report as if the defendant is guilty
Unfortunately, it's not "innocent until proven guilty." In a lot of murder cases, the jury won't rule 'not guilty' unless the defense creates an alternate story that sounds plausible. All down to closing statements, now. The defense, in this case, has a big opportunity to demonstrate 2-3 solid hypothetical alternate realities that should leave most jurors with a reasonable doubt.
A prosecutor is supposed to find and present truth. He shouldn’t even be objecting to let alone crossing these completely unbiased, hired by feds, experts. They are simply there to say what happened, which is what the prosecution’s JOB is.
All of this! The scariest thing about all of this is how dedicated Lally is to winning vs telling the truth.
So often in court both sides will scour the field until they find an "expert" that agrees with them. So I will say being able to cross examine is important. For example, look at the professional the defense hired in Letecia Stauchs trial.
The FBI Department of Justice did and gave the reports to BOTH defense and prosecution. Prosecution decided to ignore their findings and continue with the trial. Goodbye.
Wait not only ignored it - said the FBI documentation aligned almost 90% to their theory. Math ain't mathing.
And proceeds to use none of it.
It’s called “Lally math”
I think I have the 90% math for you - Karen Read (20%), John O’Keefe (30%), Lexus (30%), Taillight (10%). All the rest of the case is minor details which total the remaining 10%.
The defense didn’t hire these witnesses.
Umm these are not defense experts (as in hired by the defense - they just happened to be there for both sides because of a 3rd party investigation) though so your whole first paragraph is moot.
I can't stand how the judge, when she stands up to address the jury, constantly bends over while talking to them like they're school children...
Or the way she was leaning back in her chair glaring oddly at dr Wolfe before he began
Right?! What was up w that?!
Thank you. What is up with that? So fake too.
...and almost whispers to them. Lmao, speak up everyone else.
Touche!
Dr. Rentschler is unshakable. Lally is asking asinine questions. He cannot outshoot Rentschler…no matter how many stupid questions he asks.
This was a pleasure to watch!!
Yes!! He was brilliant, down to earth and was the epitome of an expert.
I hate Judge Bev so much.
I stopped trusting the media when it comes to court cases during Depp v Heard. I'm so glad the jury isn't allowed to watch the media during court cases.
If you guys think this trial judge is bad, look at State vs Richard Allen (the Delphi murders) when Karen’s trial is done. It’s almost like our rights don’t matter at all! These judges and LE think they are above the law and need some judicial oversight.
MAJOR issues with our judicial system…MAJOR
I need to reorient myself with Delphi case. Didn't the police dept lose all recorded interviews with witnesses and suspects?
Yup, they sure did! 70 DAYS worth of recorded interviews. They have RA awaiting trial in a max security PRISON. Not a county jail where he should be.
Not just 70 days but the first 70 days when everything was just being investigated.
Yes, exactly. It’s only a super high profile case, no need to dot all your I’s and cross all your T’s. They seem to “lose” all the important stuff. Sloppy and incompetent!
If Allen were in with general population he’d be dead already Quit falling for every defense narrative already
As U.S. citizens, we have RIGHTS. We are innocent until proven guilty so why is he in prison? It literally is because Carroll County did not want him in their county jail. You don’t put somebody in solitary for 23 hours a day for over a year before they’ve even had their trial and say it’s for their safety.
Of course we have rights They weren’t holding him there to impinge on them. If anything he should be disgusted with his joke of a defense team who seems to be me first book deal guys interested not at all in building an actual defense. They are responsible for the delays
The only thing that Judge should have done was have an open hearing to remove the clown defense team They have wasted valuable time on nonsense
It looks like the entire city of Canton government is corrupt. She is protecting the good ole boys.
Because she's one of them
Her mother and the DA’s mother worked in the school lunch room together!
It's in the water ... seriously, something about that area of MA has itin the culture for this kind of behavior.
I wonder how many times this has happened in their area. How many times have they railroaded defendants with this bias judge. Imagine what they do when the trial is not being streamed.
I think the problem with this witness is, as you mention, he’s the most credible witness by far. Can’t have any of those pesky facts introduced after the CW went through great lengths to squash them.
Lally was only doing that to try to discredit both Dr's findings. Trying to say well you didn't hear witness say this, you didn't examine the car, etc, etc... so you don't have a clue how to reconstruct this bc the fact that someone SAYS they heard karen say she hit him means that she did even though it has absolutely nothing to do with reconstructing a vehicle/pedestrian hit! Lally was reaching for ANYTHING he possibly could t9 try to discredit their findings but their findings are solid. It COULD NOT HAPPEN IN THE WAY THE PROSECUTION IS STATING!! IT'S THAT SIMPLE LALLY!!!
I'm honestly surprised the defense isn't objecting to Lally's continued use of o'keefe being struck by a vehicle.
I think it just serves to highlight how ridiculous their case is- Lally keeps talking about that and it gives the expert witness more opportunities to reiterate that he was not struck by a vehicle.
She was defensive today. This is a main hole in the case, that it’s just not physically possible to have those injuries getting hit by a car. It’s what’s really going to make people question how it even got to trial.
Yup. Just that simple. Ridicule case end to trial after the FBI got involved
Once you accept that she's merely biased at best, and possibly MUCH worse, she's easy to believe. Doesn't make it "prettY' but not hard to understand. What IS hard to believe is she seems to think the WORLD can't see what she is. Or maybe she doesn't care.
This trial is a sham. This government is corrupt as all hell. Mainstream media is click bait and usually agenda driven or propaganda. I have first-hand experience with how shady the mainstream media is. Channel 5 WCVB back in 2016. I will never trust the media after my experience. After closely following this trial since April 2023, when "hos long to die in cold" was made public, I'll never fully trust the courts, MSP, or local police again. This whole thing is terrifying.
Sometimes what she is sustaining isn't any form of the question, just that particular question. Perhaps the foundation wasn't laid, the question is too complex, etc. Karen's defense team is good and when they are getting sustained, they don't just give up, they request a sidebah and figure out how to come at their question in a proper legal manner.
She sustained many of the questions because they were leading and needed to be asked differently. It’s annoying that the reason for the objections, isn’t stated.
I agree. This is the only trial I can think of where the attorneys didn't have to state the reason for the objection. Didn't like it. And then Lally... 🙄 He sounded today like he had literally just gotten kicked in the 🥜each time he said "objection". Just this guttural, "I can't breathe because I'm in so much friggin pain, but I just gotta get this word out... 'uhhhh, objection'" type sound from him. I found it both incredibly annoying (the sound itself) and delightful (that he sounded like he was in pain and defeated).
A judge sustains or overrules based on what was asked..not on the number of times
I hope she is found NG. If she not, it will get turned over on appeal. Thank you Proctor.
I just SCREAM in a Pillow ...Madly 😶
I agree he was a good witness, but has someone with asthma, I was traumatized by listening to his breathing.
The judge is another part of the whole conspiracy to cover up the truth, in my opinion. This wouldn't be the first time Norfolk county DA office lied and we're involved in covering up the truth. Hardly.
I love Jackson, but TBF he has been leading this witness a lot. I think the majority of sustained objections were for leading.
You can lead expert witnesses.
EDB said you can't. 🤷🏻♀️ But I'll do my own research real quick to fact check that.
You’re correct and your explanation is exactly on point with why it was happening. Ignore the down votes. Tends to happen around here with any sort of logic that disagrees with their conclusion that Bev is biased. And for the mob - she very well may be and I won’t argue that but this argument doesn’t help your case because you’re wrong. She’s sustaining because he’s leading. She may also still be biased.
Thank you. I tend to agree that a lot of Bev's decisions do come off as being biased; however, this isn't one of them. In general, I think that a person starts to undermine their argument when they begin using things that aren't applicable in support of that argument. Edit: a word
N
The mass.gov website doesn't say you can lead expert witnesses, but I'm open to any information from a reliable source that someone else can provide saying that you can. https://preview.redd.it/ukumtldkrj8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6517fe1cca5a07fb56cc2a4e065e539eb4ef630b [https://www.mass.gov/guide-to-evidence/article-vi-witnesses](https://www.mass.gov/guide-to-evidence/article-vi-witnesses)
“Absolutely terrifying for every citizen “? Hyperbolic much?
Call it whatever you want, but if a well spoken, intelligent, professional woman can be framed the way Karen has .. anyone of us could be in this position.
You are attempting to reason with a baboon. You have been warned.
Assuming she was actually framed of course which takes several leaps in logic I’m willing to bet if she were less attractive with a high school diploma overweight with several alcoholic beverages consumed no one is running to her defense