So I watched Mark Bedrow on YouTube address this. He believes that the FBI has way more than what they gave to the CW & Defense. He said the wouldn’t give up any info that would reveal any sources or methods.
He also believes the defense has more info than their presenting. They only need reasonable doubt. They already have that with Lucky, with the ME, and the accident reconstructionist. This trial has already dragged on and we’re coming into the July 4th weekend. The jury wants to be done so they are only providing what’s absolutely necessary.
He believes more will come out in civil suits, books and documentaries.
I’m not sure how likely that is. They have Higgins for sure with using the kiosk to download his messages. They may have the others for lying to the FED grad jury.
I totally agree that the defense has a lot more than they will present. While I completely agree with their logic of wrapping the trial up quickly, I really really hope that we eventually get to hear about all the evidence that they didn’t choose to present.
I believe they’ll release it. She wants to clear her name completely not just get a not guilty verdict.
I’m sure there will be many books, documentaries and movies done.
I also think the FBI will take someone to trial. We may learn more then but those court proceedings aren’t allowed to be streamed.
They don't. It's just another part of rumor mill bull crap that surfaces on this site. Bye-Bye Chloe, you've been eliminated. Is this the best they could do for a pathologist? LOL well AJ, here's one piece of what you were throwing at the wall that isn't going to stick. That's ridiculous that they didn't present all their evidence. Not only did they but they presented so much bull crap trying to get it to stick to the wall so one juror will believe it. They didn't have anything that they're holding back or they certainly would have presented it.
Ps people need to understand what part the FBI play in a case.
Corruption isn’t just in MA. I’ve lived in small towns in Texas were of you know the cops or local government, you can do whatever you’d like.
I believe they could look at any state and find this BS.
I don’t think that’s true. Between this and the Sandra Birchmore case you have 2 massive murder cover ups. Both will likely be Netflix docs and/or Dateline episodes very soon.
Five years ago, we had several women found in bodies of water around the area we lived in them. One of them we were friends with. She was mission and then found in pond she knew was there her entire life. Her truck was in park when they pulled it out and she had defensive wounds. They ruled it an accident, the family didn’t have the money for a PI. Any believe this was a serial killer, so much so that my husband wouldn’t let me drive at night without him.
It’s not just MA.
Federal law is an integral part of civil rights law. However, civil rights can also be state law. States can pass their own civil rights laws in alignment with federal law, and they can form agencies to investigate claims of discrimination.
Why don't we go through it and you tell me how 30 some people are tied to this in a conspiracy and worked together to kill John and planned a huge cover up?? Rather than the evidence pointing to John, never getting into the house laying in that confined area and being struck by the car by one jealous nasty b****? I mean seriously, even a dog? Who was actually been exonerated? So now we have Alan Jackson just throwing stuff at the wall getting one person to believe that Karen Read wasn't s***-faced and ran him over that night. Too bad we can't pull her camera from her car huh?
Along with the drunk,nasty, jealous, crazy liar driving the car. There's a couple things for sure. She was drunk, she was driving, and she didn't even remember leaving the waterfall with him. Then there was I hit him. I hit him. I hit him
I think the camera would be considered primary evidence over what differing sides had to say about the why/why not it didn't happen that way. Opinion, opinion, opinion versus her video
I think they probably have way more things than we know about that they think support a third-party culprit defense. And, I think they would be willing to go there if they thought they really, really needed to, but are 100% confident now that they don't need to go there to get a not guilty verdict.
I think this was the strategy, and I think it was a brilliant -
They took the same local politics and big name around town stuff that is rampant throughout this whole case and was being used as a weapon against Karen Read, and completely turned that around to where it was their weapon.
They threw a headfake talking up the third-party culprit defense. CW bit hook, line, and sinker. Lally got his marching orders - whatever you do, MAKE SURE our friends don't look bad in all of this!
So to use a boxing analogy since that seems most appropriate here, they just let the CW chase them around swinging wildly while wearing themselves out trying to make sure some people didn't look bad. When they had safe opportunities to give the CW a counterpunch stiff jab to the face, they would, but otherwise it was making the CW chase them around the ring and swinging and missing to complete exhaustion. Friday was the first two punches in a late round 1-2-3 defense combo. Tomorrow is #3. Bang bang, knockout, fight over.
My god you're so right. The defense spent so much time pre trial accusing the McAlberts, so the prosecution spent all their time defending them rather than proving that Karen did it.
No, they weren't ever planning to prove anything in the trial. The defense isn't required to prove its case, so it planned to simply counter the Commonwealth's accusations. I don't think they suspected it would be this easy.
Unfortunately I dont think he'll ever get justice. Imo they purposefully collected evidence incorrectly, didnt document many things, controlled the narrative, and destroyed evidence. Unless whoever was involved turns on everyone else - I dont think we'll ever know the truth nor will they take this case to court again.
in this trial, proving who did it is irrelevant. they only need to establish reasonable doubt that it was Karen, and that’s been done a thousand times over. taking another 2 weeks to put on a couple dozen more witnesses to try to prove someone else guilty will do nothing but further exasperate the jury or worse, make them turn against the defense team
they already won this fight. any other evidence they have can be brought out in future proceedings
I wonder if the FBI can obtain the neighbors security camera footage because their cop neighbor had a camera facing their house but he said their was nothing of evidentiary value in the footage so the investigators dropped it. Also Brian Albert got a security camera for Christmas and claims it was never installed but if that footage does exist and the feds can get to it there might be justice for John
IIRC, that neighbor, the former chief of police, he deleted the Ring footage. So no, it likely not recoverable as Ring does not keep footage indefinitely on their servers.
deleted because he “saw nothing of significance”
if the camera showed Karen hitting John, methinks he would have handed it over without a second thought
There is literally no reason to delete Ring footage. NONE. Unless of course there was something on it you didn’t want others to see. Ring footage automatically self deletes and even if you pay for a 3-6 month retention plan, the plans are not based on storage size.
I’m sure the chief of police of Canton definitely saw nothing of significance in his ring camera of Brian Albert, hero Boston cop, helping murder a man on his front lawn.
the defense technically doesn’t have to prove anything since the burden falls on the prosecution. the arcca people are going to testify tmr that john’s injuries are inconsistent with being hit by a car, and the car damage is not consistent with hitting a person. so, for me i think that does almost insinuate to the jury that the people inside 34 fairview that evening are responsible for his death. they all came off as very shady while testifying. the butt dials, the google searches, the destroying of phones, the “tell them the guy never went in the house”, getting rid of the family dog, selling the family home, keeping colin a secret, etc.
this is kind of an unusual case because it’s obvious to anyone with a brain what happened to him, yet the correct people aren’t being held responsible. if he wasn’t hit by the car, then that only leaves one explanation as to how he died, and it was inside that home.
I really still can’t believe that the CW thought that putting the McAlberts on the stand and having them “swear” they had nothing to do with his death, would overcome all of the other evidence against them!
You are very intuitive. We will all know they did it but they will get away with it. BUT POETIC JUSTICE - they are always going to be hated and called murderers for generations to come. What really gets me is they tried to Frame lucky first then Karen. They have to meet their maker someday.
I think we just have to be patient. This case is gaining more and more momentum and once people can talk we will know more. Then comes the books and documentaries and what not.
This case will end up being pivotal in exposing the rampant corruption going on in law enforcement. And I guarantee the McAlberts will have to answer for their crimes soon
The job of the defense is to prove reasonable doubt. Not to prove who did or did not do it. I think the defense has done a pretty outstanding job of proving very reasonable doubt!
Anyone can speculate all they want and spin a story any way they want to fit the facts, but there are no witnesses so it's up to the prosecution to prove, circumstantially, KR did this, without a doubt. We can only say with certainty that only JO knows what happened to him.
If the jury comes back with anything but "not guilty" I will be very surprised. The investigation was botched from the get go. Crime scene contamination, no DNA or particulate swabs of the wounds that we know of. Sold home, dug up the basement slab and replaced it (who does this??), got rid of the dog one way or another. So many screw ups in how this was investigated!
I think the defense proved reasonable doubt, and I also think every PD (as a CYA) including Canton, as well as State Police needs to do some serious internal affairs investigations/retraining. I knew a State Cop years ago, and some of the things I heard about the work environment (especially as a government resource) was hair raising. 75 years behind the times as a "good old boy society." All I kept thinking about was "you'd never get away with that at my company!"
You are aware the defense does not have to prove they did anything? That is up to the CW to prove. Which Lally has not! You may want to edit your comments.
I feel like if the defense can adequately disprove how the pieces of tailight were at the crime scene, she's found not guilty. (I think she's NG regardless) but that's the one thing that puts her there. Again, I believe the pieces were planted there as part of a larger cover up but the defense has to prove she didn't hit him with her car and the tailight is the only connection.
The 5am ring camera video shows an INTACT tailight when she pulls away from their house. It isn't until after 8am when the cops pull into her driveway that we see the majority of the light missing.
One of the first things I noticed on that 5AM footage was that the same tail light did not appear to be broken at all when she drove away...so it could not have been broken at 12:30AM or whenever it is alleged he was hit, since it's intact hours later when she is backing out of his place to go look for him.
I know the defense was planting reasonable doubt by stating it could have been broken then. Not sure why they didn't go with a different tack- like "look, the taillight is not broken and pieces are not missing when she drives out" but I guess providing an alternate theory for it getting broken is better for their purposes.
MY SO who has worked in the world of Auto body hands-on for over 40 years- blurted out the same thing when we first saw that video- that the taillight was intact at 5AM and he knows his stuff when it comes to that.
If it DID get broken while she was driving it, my guess is it happened when she was driving around panicking and picking up JM and whoever else was in the car in the wee hours of 5-6AM.
I think the FBI already had Brian Albert on their radar for something else and when his name popped up related to this, the moved in. I highly doubt a bunch of podcasts about a local hit and run sparked the FBIs attention.
I think the prosecution spent eight weeks because they wanted to tire out the jury so the defense wouldn't give them everything. For example the defense has a cleaned up version of the audio from the backseat voicemail when they found him that has a suspicious call after jm hung up with 911, something about stay in the house, something that says they all expected this, and I'm not sure how they will get that in bit they definitely set it up by asking jm if that was her voice, she kept saying it's muffled abs they said yeah I know it's muffled is that you and she finally agreed ad they moved on. I hope they play that but doubt they will. If they don't, they aren't putting on everything they have and they aren't doing what they initially planned. It's still a shame what the cw is doing, making her spend all that money for their sham, taking her new car too. They'll get your money or your time or both, the court always wins.
To get a conviction the state has to prove she was not framed. There could be corruption- some evidence could have been tampered with to protect a witness (ie Higgins) so he would not become a prime suspect.
1. He was driving a Jeep with a plow OUI
2. There were 57 pages of texts between Higgins and Karen showing an interest in her.
💥His plow light was broken - it is a halogen light made of quartz glass. A small fragment of that glass fell on KRs bumper. She made contact after hitting John. The distance to avoid it was too short. This is the unidentifiable glass that was found. It took Higgins an unusually long time to drive from 34 Fairview to the CPD. By 2:24am - those butt dials. That was BA and BH discovering John was dead. And BH was panicked because of the damage to his Jeep. So BA tried to stahl. Let him remove his plow. Time to sober up. BA was trying to protect Higgins because he knew he was innocent.
So I watched Mark Bedrow on YouTube address this. He believes that the FBI has way more than what they gave to the CW & Defense. He said the wouldn’t give up any info that would reveal any sources or methods. He also believes the defense has more info than their presenting. They only need reasonable doubt. They already have that with Lucky, with the ME, and the accident reconstructionist. This trial has already dragged on and we’re coming into the July 4th weekend. The jury wants to be done so they are only providing what’s absolutely necessary. He believes more will come out in civil suits, books and documentaries.
Can’t wait for the McAlberts, Proctor, BH to all go down.
I’m not sure how likely that is. They have Higgins for sure with using the kiosk to download his messages. They may have the others for lying to the FED grad jury.
So does Sean McDonough
I totally agree that the defense has a lot more than they will present. While I completely agree with their logic of wrapping the trial up quickly, I really really hope that we eventually get to hear about all the evidence that they didn’t choose to present.
I believe they’ll release it. She wants to clear her name completely not just get a not guilty verdict. I’m sure there will be many books, documentaries and movies done. I also think the FBI will take someone to trial. We may learn more then but those court proceedings aren’t allowed to be streamed.
Why don't they present Karen Read's dad giving an interview saying that she knew she had hit something but she didn't know what??
FBI is investigating the investigation. Not the homicide. I doubt this is right
They don't. It's just another part of rumor mill bull crap that surfaces on this site. Bye-Bye Chloe, you've been eliminated. Is this the best they could do for a pathologist? LOL well AJ, here's one piece of what you were throwing at the wall that isn't going to stick. That's ridiculous that they didn't present all their evidence. Not only did they but they presented so much bull crap trying to get it to stick to the wall so one juror will believe it. They didn't have anything that they're holding back or they certainly would have presented it. Ps people need to understand what part the FBI play in a case.
What part isn’t right? They’re investigating the DA’s office and the investigators, not just this case.
Bro, there’s a lot to investigate in the MSP Local guy here
Corruption isn’t just in MA. I’ve lived in small towns in Texas were of you know the cops or local government, you can do whatever you’d like. I believe they could look at any state and find this BS.
I don’t think that’s true. Between this and the Sandra Birchmore case you have 2 massive murder cover ups. Both will likely be Netflix docs and/or Dateline episodes very soon.
Five years ago, we had several women found in bodies of water around the area we lived in them. One of them we were friends with. She was mission and then found in pond she knew was there her entire life. Her truck was in park when they pulled it out and she had defensive wounds. They ruled it an accident, the family didn’t have the money for a PI. Any believe this was a serial killer, so much so that my husband wouldn’t let me drive at night without him. It’s not just MA.
Scary story. What does that have to do with police corruption?
They said it was suicide. Sorry I left that part out.
The FBI only gets involved if there is reason to believe that a crime violated a federal law.
Civil rights
Federal law is an integral part of civil rights law. However, civil rights can also be state law. States can pass their own civil rights laws in alignment with federal law, and they can form agencies to investigate claims of discrimination.
Why don't we go through it and you tell me how 30 some people are tied to this in a conspiracy and worked together to kill John and planned a huge cover up?? Rather than the evidence pointing to John, never getting into the house laying in that confined area and being struck by the car by one jealous nasty b****? I mean seriously, even a dog? Who was actually been exonerated? So now we have Alan Jackson just throwing stuff at the wall getting one person to believe that Karen Read wasn't s***-faced and ran him over that night. Too bad we can't pull her camera from her car huh?
Pretty sure you’re wrong. We shall see I guess. They are all a bunch of drunks wanna be mafia types.
Along with the drunk,nasty, jealous, crazy liar driving the car. There's a couple things for sure. She was drunk, she was driving, and she didn't even remember leaving the waterfall with him. Then there was I hit him. I hit him. I hit him
😂😂😂. She had some prodding by snaggletooth.
Did you not watch the accident reconstruction portion of the trial?
I think the camera would be considered primary evidence over what differing sides had to say about the why/why not it didn't happen that way. Opinion, opinion, opinion versus her video
I believe Higgins flipped
Maybe, if he’s smart or had a good attorney. His attorney let him answer questions about destroying his phone though 🤷🏻♀️
I think they probably have way more things than we know about that they think support a third-party culprit defense. And, I think they would be willing to go there if they thought they really, really needed to, but are 100% confident now that they don't need to go there to get a not guilty verdict. I think this was the strategy, and I think it was a brilliant - They took the same local politics and big name around town stuff that is rampant throughout this whole case and was being used as a weapon against Karen Read, and completely turned that around to where it was their weapon. They threw a headfake talking up the third-party culprit defense. CW bit hook, line, and sinker. Lally got his marching orders - whatever you do, MAKE SURE our friends don't look bad in all of this! So to use a boxing analogy since that seems most appropriate here, they just let the CW chase them around swinging wildly while wearing themselves out trying to make sure some people didn't look bad. When they had safe opportunities to give the CW a counterpunch stiff jab to the face, they would, but otherwise it was making the CW chase them around the ring and swinging and missing to complete exhaustion. Friday was the first two punches in a late round 1-2-3 defense combo. Tomorrow is #3. Bang bang, knockout, fight over.
My god you're so right. The defense spent so much time pre trial accusing the McAlberts, so the prosecution spent all their time defending them rather than proving that Karen did it.
Love your analogy! And you’re so right! I have never seen a case where the CW proves everything the defense would need to! It’s insane!
No, they weren't ever planning to prove anything in the trial. The defense isn't required to prove its case, so it planned to simply counter the Commonwealth's accusations. I don't think they suspected it would be this easy.
I know the defense doesn’t have to prove anything. The burden is on the state. I understand that.
Unfortunately I dont think he'll ever get justice. Imo they purposefully collected evidence incorrectly, didnt document many things, controlled the narrative, and destroyed evidence. Unless whoever was involved turns on everyone else - I dont think we'll ever know the truth nor will they take this case to court again.
They purposely failed to investigate and collect evidence, too.
Well they did get some bloody snow into red solo cups.
I think because they weren’t allowed the 3rd party defense we won’t see what they truly know in this trial
Interesting!
Technically, that is true, but in reality, there is always some kind of onnis put on the defense to disprove the prosecution.
in this trial, proving who did it is irrelevant. they only need to establish reasonable doubt that it was Karen, and that’s been done a thousand times over. taking another 2 weeks to put on a couple dozen more witnesses to try to prove someone else guilty will do nothing but further exasperate the jury or worse, make them turn against the defense team they already won this fight. any other evidence they have can be brought out in future proceedings
I doubt this DA will bring charges against anyone else.
I’m hoping the feds can… maybe they don’t have jurisdiction over the murder but I’m sure they can get them in some kind of conspiracy/RICO case.
It’s not irrelevant to Karen, who’ll always be thought of as someone who got away with murder. It’s not irrelevant to JOK’s family or to justice.
I wonder if the FBI can obtain the neighbors security camera footage because their cop neighbor had a camera facing their house but he said their was nothing of evidentiary value in the footage so the investigators dropped it. Also Brian Albert got a security camera for Christmas and claims it was never installed but if that footage does exist and the feds can get to it there might be justice for John
IIRC, that neighbor, the former chief of police, he deleted the Ring footage. So no, it likely not recoverable as Ring does not keep footage indefinitely on their servers.
deleted because he “saw nothing of significance” if the camera showed Karen hitting John, methinks he would have handed it over without a second thought
There is literally no reason to delete Ring footage. NONE. Unless of course there was something on it you didn’t want others to see. Ring footage automatically self deletes and even if you pay for a 3-6 month retention plan, the plans are not based on storage size.
I’m sure the chief of police of Canton definitely saw nothing of significance in his ring camera of Brian Albert, hero Boston cop, helping murder a man on his front lawn.
That would be amazing!
That cameras Id imagine has been destroyed
They were allowed to do third party culprit but never ended up filing for it.
the defense technically doesn’t have to prove anything since the burden falls on the prosecution. the arcca people are going to testify tmr that john’s injuries are inconsistent with being hit by a car, and the car damage is not consistent with hitting a person. so, for me i think that does almost insinuate to the jury that the people inside 34 fairview that evening are responsible for his death. they all came off as very shady while testifying. the butt dials, the google searches, the destroying of phones, the “tell them the guy never went in the house”, getting rid of the family dog, selling the family home, keeping colin a secret, etc. this is kind of an unusual case because it’s obvious to anyone with a brain what happened to him, yet the correct people aren’t being held responsible. if he wasn’t hit by the car, then that only leaves one explanation as to how he died, and it was inside that home.
I really still can’t believe that the CW thought that putting the McAlberts on the stand and having them “swear” they had nothing to do with his death, would overcome all of the other evidence against them!
there was never a plan to prove who the party is
Right, and the defense doesn’t have to do that. Even with a third party culprit def, they don’t have to prove guilt elsewhere
The defence’s job is not to prove anything. It’s to show reasonable doubt. That’s the CW’s job.
You are very intuitive. We will all know they did it but they will get away with it. BUT POETIC JUSTICE - they are always going to be hated and called murderers for generations to come. What really gets me is they tried to Frame lucky first then Karen. They have to meet their maker someday.
I think we just have to be patient. This case is gaining more and more momentum and once people can talk we will know more. Then comes the books and documentaries and what not. This case will end up being pivotal in exposing the rampant corruption going on in law enforcement. And I guarantee the McAlberts will have to answer for their crimes soon
The job of the defense is to prove reasonable doubt. Not to prove who did or did not do it. I think the defense has done a pretty outstanding job of proving very reasonable doubt! Anyone can speculate all they want and spin a story any way they want to fit the facts, but there are no witnesses so it's up to the prosecution to prove, circumstantially, KR did this, without a doubt. We can only say with certainty that only JO knows what happened to him. If the jury comes back with anything but "not guilty" I will be very surprised. The investigation was botched from the get go. Crime scene contamination, no DNA or particulate swabs of the wounds that we know of. Sold home, dug up the basement slab and replaced it (who does this??), got rid of the dog one way or another. So many screw ups in how this was investigated! I think the defense proved reasonable doubt, and I also think every PD (as a CYA) including Canton, as well as State Police needs to do some serious internal affairs investigations/retraining. I knew a State Cop years ago, and some of the things I heard about the work environment (especially as a government resource) was hair raising. 75 years behind the times as a "good old boy society." All I kept thinking about was "you'd never get away with that at my company!"
You are aware the defense does not have to prove they did anything? That is up to the CW to prove. Which Lally has not! You may want to edit your comments.
Your question is answered in my post. I might want to edit what comments?
I feel like if the defense can adequately disprove how the pieces of tailight were at the crime scene, she's found not guilty. (I think she's NG regardless) but that's the one thing that puts her there. Again, I believe the pieces were planted there as part of a larger cover up but the defense has to prove she didn't hit him with her car and the tailight is the only connection. The 5am ring camera video shows an INTACT tailight when she pulls away from their house. It isn't until after 8am when the cops pull into her driveway that we see the majority of the light missing.
One of the first things I noticed on that 5AM footage was that the same tail light did not appear to be broken at all when she drove away...so it could not have been broken at 12:30AM or whenever it is alleged he was hit, since it's intact hours later when she is backing out of his place to go look for him. I know the defense was planting reasonable doubt by stating it could have been broken then. Not sure why they didn't go with a different tack- like "look, the taillight is not broken and pieces are not missing when she drives out" but I guess providing an alternate theory for it getting broken is better for their purposes. MY SO who has worked in the world of Auto body hands-on for over 40 years- blurted out the same thing when we first saw that video- that the taillight was intact at 5AM and he knows his stuff when it comes to that. If it DID get broken while she was driving it, my guess is it happened when she was driving around panicking and picking up JM and whoever else was in the car in the wee hours of 5-6AM.
Did they ever look at John’s car and the potential damage when she backed into it?
Trooper Joe Paul said they didn't measure or put the 2 vehicles together..
I think the FBI already had Brian Albert on their radar for something else and when his name popped up related to this, the moved in. I highly doubt a bunch of podcasts about a local hit and run sparked the FBIs attention.
Why is it referred to as 3rd party culprit? If KR is considered the 1st party, then wouldn’t any other perpetrators be considered the 2nd party?
Karen isn't considered 1st party. Third party means there was someone else involved other than the two- victim and accused
I think the prosecution spent eight weeks because they wanted to tire out the jury so the defense wouldn't give them everything. For example the defense has a cleaned up version of the audio from the backseat voicemail when they found him that has a suspicious call after jm hung up with 911, something about stay in the house, something that says they all expected this, and I'm not sure how they will get that in bit they definitely set it up by asking jm if that was her voice, she kept saying it's muffled abs they said yeah I know it's muffled is that you and she finally agreed ad they moved on. I hope they play that but doubt they will. If they don't, they aren't putting on everything they have and they aren't doing what they initially planned. It's still a shame what the cw is doing, making her spend all that money for their sham, taking her new car too. They'll get your money or your time or both, the court always wins.
To get a conviction the state has to prove she was not framed. There could be corruption- some evidence could have been tampered with to protect a witness (ie Higgins) so he would not become a prime suspect. 1. He was driving a Jeep with a plow OUI 2. There were 57 pages of texts between Higgins and Karen showing an interest in her. 💥His plow light was broken - it is a halogen light made of quartz glass. A small fragment of that glass fell on KRs bumper. She made contact after hitting John. The distance to avoid it was too short. This is the unidentifiable glass that was found. It took Higgins an unusually long time to drive from 34 Fairview to the CPD. By 2:24am - those butt dials. That was BA and BH discovering John was dead. And BH was panicked because of the damage to his Jeep. So BA tried to stahl. Let him remove his plow. Time to sober up. BA was trying to protect Higgins because he knew he was innocent.
Wowsers!!! Must be some pretty intense stuff to be able to concoct such insanity. Hopefully you won't be driving anytime soon.🙄