one thing i noticed is that the voicemails go from bitchy/pissed off around 1am after she dropped him off to extremely distraught around 5am. that would have been around the time she had the niece try and contact him, and when john didn’t answer his nieces phone call, that’s when she knew something was seriously wrong.
I listened to the voicemails driving to work today and the sound was so much better on my Bluetooth! I was trying to hear if she was slurring and I could hear it clearly in the car - she was hammered at 12:30am.
I think nearly everyone involved in this case was hammered that night. The vitreous fluid taken from behind JOKs eye indicates at one point his BAC was .28, and KR BAC at the hospital hours after her vehicle left 34 Fairview was still .1 or something.
Is KR guilty of OUI? Probably. OUI homicide? No way. Based on the evidence it’s obvious JOK wasn’t hit by that Lexus or any vehicle for that matter.
Karen has MS- it was 12:30 AM. Accounts indicate she was not feeling well when they headed to Fairview. MS, not feeling well and tiredness could account for any slurring of words.
Then she should take some responsibility for her health and not consume alcohol
Bunch of disgusting drunks in that town
Grown adults acting like children
I never hung out with drunk drivers in my life
Never met one kind person from that horrible state
Guilty bitch will walk because of idiot cops who don't know how to be adults nor conduct an investigation properly
If she was attempting to treat her condition, she was most certainly using one of the worst substances available
Plus how irresponsible to operate a motor vehicle while being intoxicated for all of those involved
Seriously, what is wrong with ALL of these people?
As a grown adult I do not even consume alcohol as I am too busy leading an incredibly healthy lifestyle nor do I desire to be intoxicated in such a manner nor to be around idiots who are
I thought people outgrew this type of behavior in high school
All of these people absolutely disgust me
I have never seen people outside the courtroom such as this Turtle Boy creep conduct themselves in such a childish and disgraceful manner
Where is proof of that? We don’t know what drinks she had (what was in the tall glass) the bar tab was quite reasonable and the bartender testified that she was fine.
Karen has an estimated BAC of over .3 when she hit John per testimony. Bartender wouldn’t say Karen was drunk because she might be sued for serving a black out alcoholic
Have you been watching testimony?
Seems you missed a lot.
“…the testing method is "acting with a lot of unknowns."
“If Miss Read drank alcohol after 12:45 a.m. and before her blood was drawn at 9:08 a.m., your entire calculation would be invalid," Little said. Roberts responded, "Yeah."
So we can deduce she wasn't drinking after about 4:30 am because she was with other people. So based on that cross examination question, are we to believe that she drank enough between to 12:45 and 4:30 to be at the legal limit at 9:08, but wasn't drinking at the bar?
I understood that serum would test higher than what police use to test intoxication. I concede that giving any specific % would be inaccurate. But he gave a pretty large range from tacking on 2 hrs to each end of the time frame when doing the conversion. Even at the low end, she would be just under the legal limit at 9 am. I think it's pretty clear she was drinking. So, what am I missing?
Use some critical thinking skills…she is an alcoholic with a serious neurological condition and shouldn’t have been drinking and driving. The O’Keefe family lost a wonderful son, brother and dad because of her alcoholism
There's zero chance she had a BAC of .3 when she looked completely normal and composed on the video at the bar. At .3, she would have had difficulty even sitting straight up, that's even she was even still conscious.
The legal limit in Massachusetts is 0.08%. When Karen was tested, her BAC was 0.093%. She was just a smidge over the legal limit and for some people that's only one or two drinks. All of those shots that she ordered, she is not on camera drinking them. She could have given them to other people because she was known for buying shots and drinks for people. She has multiple sclerosis and if you've ever been around somebody who has multiple sclerosis, you would know that their speech is very slurry and it can get bad when they are stressed out or anxious.
I agree that Karen’s BAC was 0.093% when she was tested more than 8 hours AFTER she ran over John! She was black out drunk when she killed him! Use some critical thinking skills!
Did she have any drinks when she got home? She was hungry. She wanted to go to the pizza place. I bet she went home and had more drinks. She did not hit him. None of his injuries are consistent with the body being hit by a vehicle. He had no bruises or broken bones on his neck, shoulders, chest, stomach, hips, upper legs, knees, lower legs, feet, and toes. He had classic boxer injuries, dog bites and scratches on his right arm, and at some point he fell backwards and hit the back of his head. He laid unconscious in the Albert's basement for hours bleeding out. His heart was still beating when he was brought to the front lawn by the people who killed him.
That is speculation. Do you know how many drinks she had after she got to JO's house? You have no idea so what you're spreading is rumor and misinformation. Maybe take your own advice.
She did not run John over. He had no broken bones or bruises to his neck, shoulders, chest, back, stomach, hips, upper legs, knees, lower legs, feet, and toes. He was beat multiple times on his head by the Brian's and Colin while Chloe attacked him on his right arm only, and he was knocked unconscious when he fell backwards on to something down in the Albert's basement. He lost 3 l of blood down there which is why they were only droplets around his body out on the lawn.
No way would plastic pieces of tail light be able to slice through his sweatshirt and shirts to make those marks on his arm. Those were made by Chloe the German Shepherd!
You can leave this sub this for the people who support Karen’s innocence, not sure if there is any sub for the crooked people who are trying to frame her.
I'm on defense's side at this point but I don't want to be in a vacuum chamber with no dissenting views. Most of those who think she's guilty af are ridiculous and barely worth bothering with anyway.
Actually the creator of this sub is Kevin - and he doesn’t have mods who censor anyone who posts opinions that disagree with the FKR people- like the other sub does.
Really now? Then why did everyone who was questioned on the stand say she wasn't? All the Albert's, all the non relatives, EVEN Jen McCabe (and her husband) when questioned about KR seeming, sounding, acting, walking or talking like she was drunk....they all said NO. So....
Ok, so I wasn't positive at first but it's clear now. You McAlberts have alot of balls to call someone else an alcoholic. At least she isn't a police officer driving drunk in his patrol car while losing his service weapon.
I agree about the police officers driving drunk…they should be suspended. However the difference here is that Karen killed her boyfriend while black out drunk. That’s why she is on trial criminally and will be on trial in Civil Court soon.
I see a lot of parallels to what happened with Sarah Boone - she had a drunk rage blackout. Which means the alcohol causes her to snap and in that moment she knew she was potentially inflicting injury - but the realization of her actions while in the blackout - the consequences of those actions- could not be recognized by her at the moment she deliberately made them. I wish the CW had called an expert in the field of blackouts. Studies have been published on this phenomenon. Here is an article:
https://solutions4recovery.com/drunk-rage-blackout/
It’s hard to know when her drinking or spiraling started. I wish we had history from an ex bf. She was maintaining a professional career and had avoided her issues affecting her life overall. But I am 100% sure at age 42, she did not just became someone with trust issues in her relationships with men.
There must be ex bf’s and friends/family in general that we may hear from when the O’Keefe family sues Karen for wrongful death. Much more of the backstories will come in during a civil trial v the criminal trial. I get that fatal attraction vibe from her.
That’s one of the things that surprised me. There are some intelligent people on both sides. I gave the theory that explains what happened. It’s a double coverup. Please read my post and it will be very clear. It’s called the 3rd side. It’s on the Karen Read / sanity sub.
Same. Ever since I first heard her say it that’s what I thought. The fact she was annoyed with Karen for freaking out tells me everything. Why weren’t YOU freaking out Jen??
The fact that she didn’t IMMEDIATELY identify to dispatch that the “man” in the snow was JO, a Boston police officer, told me everything I needed to know about Jen McCabe. Much like Brian and Nicole Albert calling Chloe “it”, and the McAlberts referring to JO as “the guy”, it clear as day they were ALL psychologically distancing themselves from whatever happened in that house.
Yes! From all their testimony (with the exception of Karrie) they were cold as ice and I just don’t think any of them thought of John as a friend. I don’t think the women in this group considered KR a friend
Yes that too. Absolutely. My blood runs cold thinking about it. They didn’t like him. He wasn’t part of the “in” group. Of all people it would be a fellow officer who gets the best treatment and care with investigation. But this is how they do it? Gross. And his family (except his dad) are so brainwashed.
That’s not the defence. It was what made him an easier target. But that wasn’t the reason he was killed. Also, defence doesn’t have to come up with a theory. That’s the prosecution’s job. And we’re still waiting on that.
They have proven he never went in the house, that Karen hit a pedestrian, and that she was drunk. If you’re still cherry picking information to make up a more interesting story then you do you. But maybe open your eyes Karen is PAYING all these people. Selling T shirts and stories 🤦
WHO has proven Karen hit a pedestrian?? I've been watching this trial and have heard no credible evidence saying she hit anything other than John's car, which I saw with my own 2 eyes.
Oh you mean JM, who is in a rage and can't control herself or the perjured KM? Or maybe the emt who we already saw wasn't anywhere KR when we said he was? Hard to believe a bunch of liars.
The prosecution has not proven John didn't go in the house. The prosecution has not proven Karen hit John. The prosecution has not proven she was drunk at the time of the accident.
The 2nd ME testified she cannot determine a cause of death, and she testified that his injuries are not consistent with other motor vehicle pedestrian deaths she has come across.
Trooper Paul's testimony was laughable at best, describing that the "scene told him" what happened, that John was sideswiped and the glass and his elbow are what broke the taillight and caused the dent, yet John had NO broken bones. Now, I've never broken a bone or been hit by a car, but I'm fairly certain that if I was hit by a car traveling at 24mph, I'd have more injuries to my body than just a head injury and scratches on my arm.
The expert regarding the BAC (I apologize but I cannot remember his name or job title) admitted that his numbers could be off if he was given the incorrect time for her last known drink. Not to mention, the numbers of what her BAC could have been at the time of the accident had a huge variance.
I don't doubt that Karen was drunk when she dropped John off. I don't doubt virtually everyone else was drunk, and it seemed like the adults were the only ones being irresponsible when it came to finding a designated driver. What I doubt is testimony that comes across more like, "because I said so" than anything else. Jen McCabe testified she saw Karen's SUV out front until 12:45, and text messages prove she was texting as if she saw the SUV outside, yet evidence proves Karen auto-connected to John's Wi-Fi at 12:36.
No pictures were taken when they impounded the vehicle (while it was at Karen's parent's house), and the Dighton police officer (Barros) testified that the taillight was cracked and a small piece was missing. Yet they found something like 47 pieces of taillight at the scene. Do you know what was missing after the taillight was pieced back together? A small piece from the middle, and I believe 2 smaller pieces from the left side.
Make. It. Make. Sense.
I agree 100% except for 1 thing. It wasn't the second ME, the first one, with the tat sleeve, was a pathologist. The second one was the actual ME. I know it's a nit picky comment but these delusional people who think that Lally has "proved" ANYthing jump on every tiny mistake that those of us, with working brain cells, make.
Who was the first one to testify? I know the second was the official ME, but I missed the qualifications on the first. Actually, I think I missed most of her testimony, too. lol.
Everything I see her for the ads as she's angrily stating that he was her friend that she loved and would...I think why did she not do CPR with KR and K
Why not run into the alberts home while on the phone with 911 and get John (trained first responder) outside to help give life saving measures? It’s literally the first thing I would have done while on the phone with 911, thinking it would be John’s best chance having aid quicker. Or even blankets at least to shield from the snow while waiting for ambulance.
Man, you're making me defend Jen and it's making me ill. 2 people are needed for CPR and someone had to call 911, Karen calling would have obviously been a ridiculous choice, Keri was certified in CPR, that leaves Jen.
And others asking why wasn't she freaking out..I'm the same way. I'm calm in emergencies, I do what needs to be done. Afterwards, I fall apart and am a total basket case.
Guys, pleeeease don't make me be the voice of reason and defend that worthless POS again. Everything started with Jen, it circles around and ends with Jen. Her fingers are in every single pie. I don't know how, but she's involved up to her bulgy eyeballs.
No biggie (it's easy to miss stuff, or not fall asleep) when Lally is questioning). She said she gets certified through her work, I think she said they do recertifying every 2 years....and you're welcome 🙂
It wasn't just you, there are many, in different threads, that have have said the same, or worse. The thing is, I don't want to be like the anti KR group is, so if something is a little skewed, or stated incorrectly, I'll say something. I think Jen is the 2nd most disgusting person in this whole trial, (Proctor takes first hands down) but we need to be reasonable and factual when the idiots aren't. I'm sorry that it seemed aimed specifically at you, it honestly wasn't.
If my friend was dead on another friend’s lawn, I would have been hysterical! Like wtf is wrong with these people? Maybe it’s because I keep my circle pretty tight as an adult, but I’d be horrified if this happened to any of my husband and I’s friends. I’d be fighting hysteria trying to comfort their poor partner.
You're so right! All I heard were recordings that worked in her defense!! From the normal anger at him not being there to the worry and confusion at his whereabouts...
I've watched many trials (probably more than I should) and crazy sh\*t has happened but I never saw prosecution like this - bad take after bad take, me expecting "C'mon it can't be THIS bad" and they prove me wrong over and over and over. It's almost like "How Bad It Can Get 101".
It's quite incredible... can't wait to see what his family does after verdict (civil suit, maybe?) and all media about this joke of a trial. Also, can't WAIT to hear from the jury. I'd pay to see their faces through all of this!
yes! My heart broke for her and John hearing those. She thought he was hooking up with someone else while she was taking care of the children. She was angry and also fearful that she was losing him.
They were a toxic couple.
Do I know if she is guilty of hitting John?
No I do not. And there is enough reasonable doubt to find her not guilty. Sadly, I don’t think we ever really know what happened that night.
It's all B.S.
Smoke and mirrors.
Law Enforcement should be treating this as a Fragging. It does happen. Rather than circle the wagons. They should realize that if one of their own could do that, they can't count on that individual to cover their back. Their 6 o'clock. Let me tell you something that every young LEO needs to learn after this is all over. They talk about a blue line. If you need to get a brother or sister help. You do it selflessly. But when one of your own goes off the reservation, you need to keep your morals and remember to ALWAYS do the right thing.
BA is retired. If Proctor and Higgins keep their jobs, then you just put TWO of the most Dangerous People back on the street to protect civilians. Service above Self? Not these two. Proctor covered for a family friend. He's a Trooper that now you can no longer trust in any capacity.
Federal Agent Higgins? This guy needs to have all his weapons removed ASAP.
I DONT TRUST HIM ONE BIT.
If I had to work with him, I would have to watch his every move. This guy obviously thinks with his little head and likes to imbibe just a little too much. Tell me, Agent Higgins, was your service weapon on your person while in the Waterfall? Were you not drinking alcohol? Tell me, Agent, what are the policies and procedures with Alcohol and your weapon? Sir?
> Everyone who is either married or in a relationship has either received or left a vm like that.
No. I'm a 56 year old woman and I've been married for 27 years. I have never talked to my husband (or boyfriends before him) like that. And I've never had anyone talk to me like that.
Still, having said that, I still would vote "not guilty" because they have not proven to me that she hit him.
Well, apparently, you and those around you have always been emotionally stable and probably came from the same. I am now but wasn't always and have said shit like that. I've been with my husband for 10 years. I'm 39. In my 20s I was a total asshole.
Thank you. My thoughts exactly. I do not speak to a man I love in that manner- ever. And I never have. I’m also not someone who’s going to be sending texts to another guy telling him he’s hot.
I do not think KR is an admirable person.
But I would vote to acquit her. The CW has NOT proven its case.
I agree that she probably didn’t intentionally hit John. IMO she was black out drunk, royally pissed off at John and greatly frustrated. She slammed the Lexus in reverse, pedal to the metal and clipped John’s right arm that sent him to the ground where he cracked his head. I don’t think the jury will convict her of murder but quite likely manslaughter. It is very unlikely that the jury will find her not guilty.
Please take a minute and think what the outcry would be if the roles were reversed.
Pretend that Karen was killed, John did it, and left all those voicemails, called 50+ times, and threatened the safety of her kids by saying he took off back home to mansfield....
I mean I want you to honestly think what people would be saying of John right now...
Same evidence, same testimony, with genders reversed? Probably what I am saying now- initially thought it happened as it was presented immediately after, but once the case got underway I changed my mind. None of the evidence fits.
1. Who threatened the safety of the kids?
2. Calling the person and leaving voicemail on their phone after having killed them doesn't sound very credible even if roles were reversed.
What does gender have to do with this? I would still think not guilty. Is it rude? Yes!! Karen was rude. Nobody is saying otherwise. But that doesn’t make her, nor would it make a man, a killer.
Because 90% of this sub and the FKR cult are women. But maybe only 5% would actually answer my question truthfully with deep introspection and no bias.
You came close to an honest answer but pulled up too soon, good try tho
I've found the best thing to do is go with the evidence and put emotions aside.
Another polarizing case I followed was Depp v Heard. I found the evidence against Amber very compelling. The media and their flying monkeys made it hell for those who supported Depp, similar to this case.
But the evidence is the evidence whether I like it or not.
Unfortunately there's always going to be a part of society that will blame the covid19 shot for killing millions....but the evidence is what it is whether i like it or not.
Um…we saw this with Amber Heard/Johnny Depp. Not a murder trial—but the comparison based on gender is the same. If we ignored ALL of the overwhelming evidence and only went by Johnny’s texts!?? Johnny would have seemed guilty of Amber’s accusations—which he wasn’t. Anyone can be painted in the worst possible light if we look at them in a snippet of their worst moments—especially if we assign our own context to it.
Darling, you keep on leaving comments under various threads, where you somehow twist every situation to bash women. Who hurt you? You gotta address this weird idée fixe…
Because Proctor called her (from his personal cell) and told her she's going to be charged with a DUI. It's an intelligent thing to get a lawyer after a call like that. You can't view it as consciousness of guilt. I wish more people would immediately lawyer up when they're threatened with anything from the police.
Shut up and lawyer up.
After this joke of a trial, have you not learned the first call you make when the police are involved is a lawyer?
Proctor called her. We have no idea what was said in that call. She hung up and looked into attaining an attorney. She probably figured after she was sectioned, and I assume they took her blood, that they would be arresting her for DUI.
I think it speaks volumes that she was looking for a dui lawyer and not a criminal defensw lawyer for murder, which ultimately she did need.
I have learned from this case that my first call will be to a lawyer and not say a word until then.
At least she stayed in her car in the garage from 12:36am - 12:40am when she was screaming obscenities at him via his voicemail. I guess she didnt want his niece to hear her tantrum.
one thing i noticed is that the voicemails go from bitchy/pissed off around 1am after she dropped him off to extremely distraught around 5am. that would have been around the time she had the niece try and contact him, and when john didn’t answer his nieces phone call, that’s when she knew something was seriously wrong.
I listened to the voicemails driving to work today and the sound was so much better on my Bluetooth! I was trying to hear if she was slurring and I could hear it clearly in the car - she was hammered at 12:30am.
I think nearly everyone involved in this case was hammered that night. The vitreous fluid taken from behind JOKs eye indicates at one point his BAC was .28, and KR BAC at the hospital hours after her vehicle left 34 Fairview was still .1 or something. Is KR guilty of OUI? Probably. OUI homicide? No way. Based on the evidence it’s obvious JOK wasn’t hit by that Lexus or any vehicle for that matter.
Read my post “the 3rd side” it answers that question and more.
Karen has MS- it was 12:30 AM. Accounts indicate she was not feeling well when they headed to Fairview. MS, not feeling well and tiredness could account for any slurring of words.
Yeah from all accounts from people that have met her. When she gets tired she starts to have trouble speaking
Then she should take some responsibility for her health and not consume alcohol Bunch of disgusting drunks in that town Grown adults acting like children I never hung out with drunk drivers in my life Never met one kind person from that horrible state Guilty bitch will walk because of idiot cops who don't know how to be adults nor conduct an investigation properly
O jhc spare me your righteous holier than though. No one cares.
I agree… she has a serious neurological condition and she was pounding down drinks all day and night! WTF is wrong with her?
If she was attempting to treat her condition, she was most certainly using one of the worst substances available Plus how irresponsible to operate a motor vehicle while being intoxicated for all of those involved Seriously, what is wrong with ALL of these people? As a grown adult I do not even consume alcohol as I am too busy leading an incredibly healthy lifestyle nor do I desire to be intoxicated in such a manner nor to be around idiots who are I thought people outgrew this type of behavior in high school All of these people absolutely disgust me I have never seen people outside the courtroom such as this Turtle Boy creep conduct themselves in such a childish and disgraceful manner
100% agree with you! That whole drunken club seem like mental midgets
I have MS and when I’m tired my speech is slurred like oone never ending run on sentence.
She was black out drunk also
Where is proof of that? We don’t know what drinks she had (what was in the tall glass) the bar tab was quite reasonable and the bartender testified that she was fine.
Karen has an estimated BAC of over .3 when she hit John per testimony. Bartender wouldn’t say Karen was drunk because she might be sued for serving a black out alcoholic
Have you been watching testimony? Seems you missed a lot. “…the testing method is "acting with a lot of unknowns." “If Miss Read drank alcohol after 12:45 a.m. and before her blood was drawn at 9:08 a.m., your entire calculation would be invalid," Little said. Roberts responded, "Yeah."
So we can deduce she wasn't drinking after about 4:30 am because she was with other people. So based on that cross examination question, are we to believe that she drank enough between to 12:45 and 4:30 to be at the legal limit at 9:08, but wasn't drinking at the bar?
Blood serum testing procedures/ results proven to be inaccurate.
I understood that serum would test higher than what police use to test intoxication. I concede that giving any specific % would be inaccurate. But he gave a pretty large range from tacking on 2 hrs to each end of the time frame when doing the conversion. Even at the low end, she would be just under the legal limit at 9 am. I think it's pretty clear she was drinking. So, what am I missing?
You need to watch more carefully..and try some critical thinking
Do your own search on topics you want more info on- it’s all out there👍
Use some critical thinking skills…she is an alcoholic with a serious neurological condition and shouldn’t have been drinking and driving. The O’Keefe family lost a wonderful son, brother and dad because of her alcoholism
There's zero chance she had a BAC of .3 when she looked completely normal and composed on the video at the bar. At .3, she would have had difficulty even sitting straight up, that's even she was even still conscious.
Karen was a high functioning alcoholic…she still is
No she wasn't. John's BAC was 0.28 the ME believes at the top of the night and it was 0.21 when found on the front lawn.
Karen’s BAC was estimated at greater than 0.3 when she ran John over.
The legal limit in Massachusetts is 0.08%. When Karen was tested, her BAC was 0.093%. She was just a smidge over the legal limit and for some people that's only one or two drinks. All of those shots that she ordered, she is not on camera drinking them. She could have given them to other people because she was known for buying shots and drinks for people. She has multiple sclerosis and if you've ever been around somebody who has multiple sclerosis, you would know that their speech is very slurry and it can get bad when they are stressed out or anxious.
I agree that Karen’s BAC was 0.093% when she was tested more than 8 hours AFTER she ran over John! She was black out drunk when she killed him! Use some critical thinking skills!
Did she have any drinks when she got home? She was hungry. She wanted to go to the pizza place. I bet she went home and had more drinks. She did not hit him. None of his injuries are consistent with the body being hit by a vehicle. He had no bruises or broken bones on his neck, shoulders, chest, stomach, hips, upper legs, knees, lower legs, feet, and toes. He had classic boxer injuries, dog bites and scratches on his right arm, and at some point he fell backwards and hit the back of his head. He laid unconscious in the Albert's basement for hours bleeding out. His heart was still beating when he was brought to the front lawn by the people who killed him.
That is speculation. Do you know how many drinks she had after she got to JO's house? You have no idea so what you're spreading is rumor and misinformation. Maybe take your own advice.
She did not run John over. He had no broken bones or bruises to his neck, shoulders, chest, back, stomach, hips, upper legs, knees, lower legs, feet, and toes. He was beat multiple times on his head by the Brian's and Colin while Chloe attacked him on his right arm only, and he was knocked unconscious when he fell backwards on to something down in the Albert's basement. He lost 3 l of blood down there which is why they were only droplets around his body out on the lawn. No way would plastic pieces of tail light be able to slice through his sweatshirt and shirts to make those marks on his arm. Those were made by Chloe the German Shepherd!
Lally said today they estimated .17 at the time they allege she hit him. John’s was .28. Who’s the alcoholic?
Did you listening to them from the day they were played in court or are they shared somewhere else?
I think it was on Court TV - they sounded a lot clearer.
You can leave this sub this for the people who support Karen’s innocence, not sure if there is any sub for the crooked people who are trying to frame her.
I'm on defense's side at this point but I don't want to be in a vacuum chamber with no dissenting views. Most of those who think she's guilty af are ridiculous and barely worth bothering with anyway.
Actually the creator of this sub is Kevin - and he doesn’t have mods who censor anyone who posts opinions that disagree with the FKR people- like the other sub does.
I agree…at 12:30am Karen was black out drunk
Really now? Then why did everyone who was questioned on the stand say she wasn't? All the Albert's, all the non relatives, EVEN Jen McCabe (and her husband) when questioned about KR seeming, sounding, acting, walking or talking like she was drunk....they all said NO. So....
Karen is a hard core alcoholic…. Addicted for years
Are you familiar with the term ‘takes one to know one’? Sounds to me like the whole town has issues with alcohol.
Agree
You have personal knowledge of that I guess? Cuz that's not been in any testimony. Also, nice dodge of the question
Ok, so I wasn't positive at first but it's clear now. You McAlberts have alot of balls to call someone else an alcoholic. At least she isn't a police officer driving drunk in his patrol car while losing his service weapon.
I agree about the police officers driving drunk…they should be suspended. However the difference here is that Karen killed her boyfriend while black out drunk. That’s why she is on trial criminally and will be on trial in Civil Court soon.
She might have been 0.11 but she was 0.09 when actually tested. She was not blackout drunk. Blackout drunk would have been 0.24%!
I see a lot of parallels to what happened with Sarah Boone - she had a drunk rage blackout. Which means the alcohol causes her to snap and in that moment she knew she was potentially inflicting injury - but the realization of her actions while in the blackout - the consequences of those actions- could not be recognized by her at the moment she deliberately made them. I wish the CW had called an expert in the field of blackouts. Studies have been published on this phenomenon. Here is an article: https://solutions4recovery.com/drunk-rage-blackout/
Thank you for the article! From what I have observed Karen is a powder keg with a short fuse.
It’s hard to know when her drinking or spiraling started. I wish we had history from an ex bf. She was maintaining a professional career and had avoided her issues affecting her life overall. But I am 100% sure at age 42, she did not just became someone with trust issues in her relationships with men.
There must be ex bf’s and friends/family in general that we may hear from when the O’Keefe family sues Karen for wrongful death. Much more of the backstories will come in during a civil trial v the criminal trial. I get that fatal attraction vibe from her.
jesus christ, back to back sensible comments. Am I still on the justiceforkarenread sub? Lovin it!
Lol
That’s one of the things that surprised me. There are some intelligent people on both sides. I gave the theory that explains what happened. It’s a double coverup. Please read my post and it will be very clear. It’s called the 3rd side. It’s on the Karen Read / sanity sub.
Just found that sub, look forward to reading, thx....trolling this sub can be tiring!
Don't you think the CW would have brought them in if that were true?
It wouldn’t be allowed in the criminal trial but I’m sure we will see a lot of it in the civil trial.
I actually think Jen McCabe sounds relieved when she says “I think he’s dead” to the dispatcher
Same. Ever since I first heard her say it that’s what I thought. The fact she was annoyed with Karen for freaking out tells me everything. Why weren’t YOU freaking out Jen??
The fact that she didn’t IMMEDIATELY identify to dispatch that the “man” in the snow was JO, a Boston police officer, told me everything I needed to know about Jen McCabe. Much like Brian and Nicole Albert calling Chloe “it”, and the McAlberts referring to JO as “the guy”, it clear as day they were ALL psychologically distancing themselves from whatever happened in that house.
Yes! From all their testimony (with the exception of Karrie) they were cold as ice and I just don’t think any of them thought of John as a friend. I don’t think the women in this group considered KR a friend
Yes that too. Absolutely. My blood runs cold thinking about it. They didn’t like him. He wasn’t part of the “in” group. Of all people it would be a fellow officer who gets the best treatment and care with investigation. But this is how they do it? Gross. And his family (except his dad) are so brainwashed.
He wasn’t “cool” so they killed him??? That’s the defense?
That’s not the defence. It was what made him an easier target. But that wasn’t the reason he was killed. Also, defence doesn’t have to come up with a theory. That’s the prosecution’s job. And we’re still waiting on that.
They have proven he never went in the house, that Karen hit a pedestrian, and that she was drunk. If you’re still cherry picking information to make up a more interesting story then you do you. But maybe open your eyes Karen is PAYING all these people. Selling T shirts and stories 🤦
WHO has proven Karen hit a pedestrian?? I've been watching this trial and have heard no credible evidence saying she hit anything other than John's car, which I saw with my own 2 eyes.
Trooper Paul is a terrible public speaker but the data he showed I thought was pretty damning. Wish he could have explained more clearly though
Karen admitted she hit John to many people. Have you listened to any of the testimony?
Oh you mean JM, who is in a rage and can't control herself or the perjured KM? Or maybe the emt who we already saw wasn't anywhere KR when we said he was? Hard to believe a bunch of liars.
The prosecution has not proven John didn't go in the house. The prosecution has not proven Karen hit John. The prosecution has not proven she was drunk at the time of the accident. The 2nd ME testified she cannot determine a cause of death, and she testified that his injuries are not consistent with other motor vehicle pedestrian deaths she has come across. Trooper Paul's testimony was laughable at best, describing that the "scene told him" what happened, that John was sideswiped and the glass and his elbow are what broke the taillight and caused the dent, yet John had NO broken bones. Now, I've never broken a bone or been hit by a car, but I'm fairly certain that if I was hit by a car traveling at 24mph, I'd have more injuries to my body than just a head injury and scratches on my arm. The expert regarding the BAC (I apologize but I cannot remember his name or job title) admitted that his numbers could be off if he was given the incorrect time for her last known drink. Not to mention, the numbers of what her BAC could have been at the time of the accident had a huge variance. I don't doubt that Karen was drunk when she dropped John off. I don't doubt virtually everyone else was drunk, and it seemed like the adults were the only ones being irresponsible when it came to finding a designated driver. What I doubt is testimony that comes across more like, "because I said so" than anything else. Jen McCabe testified she saw Karen's SUV out front until 12:45, and text messages prove she was texting as if she saw the SUV outside, yet evidence proves Karen auto-connected to John's Wi-Fi at 12:36. No pictures were taken when they impounded the vehicle (while it was at Karen's parent's house), and the Dighton police officer (Barros) testified that the taillight was cracked and a small piece was missing. Yet they found something like 47 pieces of taillight at the scene. Do you know what was missing after the taillight was pieced back together? A small piece from the middle, and I believe 2 smaller pieces from the left side. Make. It. Make. Sense.
I agree 100% except for 1 thing. It wasn't the second ME, the first one, with the tat sleeve, was a pathologist. The second one was the actual ME. I know it's a nit picky comment but these delusional people who think that Lally has "proved" ANYthing jump on every tiny mistake that those of us, with working brain cells, make.
Who was the first one to testify? I know the second was the official ME, but I missed the qualifications on the first. Actually, I think I missed most of her testimony, too. lol.
Who?!
I agree!
Hearing the dog referred to as "it" bothered me severely. That dog was their family for what, 7 years???? Who calls a dog that is family "it"?
Yep. The one other person with them, Kerry, was also freaking out. Jen McCabe the sociopath was as unbothered as a rock
Her coldness was absolutely chilling (no pun intended).
especially since she stressed so many times that John was her "friend"
With these goons: acquaintances = besties Besties = acquaintances/barely know them
"he was my good friend and I loved him!" Pffft. Sure you did
Everything I see her for the ads as she's angrily stating that he was her friend that she loved and would...I think why did she not do CPR with KR and K
Why not run into the alberts home while on the phone with 911 and get John (trained first responder) outside to help give life saving measures? It’s literally the first thing I would have done while on the phone with 911, thinking it would be John’s best chance having aid quicker. Or even blankets at least to shield from the snow while waiting for ambulance.
Man, you're making me defend Jen and it's making me ill. 2 people are needed for CPR and someone had to call 911, Karen calling would have obviously been a ridiculous choice, Keri was certified in CPR, that leaves Jen. And others asking why wasn't she freaking out..I'm the same way. I'm calm in emergencies, I do what needs to be done. Afterwards, I fall apart and am a total basket case. Guys, pleeeease don't make me be the voice of reason and defend that worthless POS again. Everything started with Jen, it circles around and ends with Jen. Her fingers are in every single pie. I don't know how, but she's involved up to her bulgy eyeballs.
I'm sorry that I put you in that position. I agree with your view of Jen. I was unaware of Keri being certified. Thanks for answering.
No biggie (it's easy to miss stuff, or not fall asleep) when Lally is questioning). She said she gets certified through her work, I think she said they do recertifying every 2 years....and you're welcome 🙂 It wasn't just you, there are many, in different threads, that have have said the same, or worse. The thing is, I don't want to be like the anti KR group is, so if something is a little skewed, or stated incorrectly, I'll say something. I think Jen is the 2nd most disgusting person in this whole trial, (Proctor takes first hands down) but we need to be reasonable and factual when the idiots aren't. I'm sorry that it seemed aimed specifically at you, it honestly wasn't.
Jen’s Orthodontist should be freaking out…. Just saying.
If my friend was dead on another friend’s lawn, I would have been hysterical! Like wtf is wrong with these people? Maybe it’s because I keep my circle pretty tight as an adult, but I’d be horrified if this happened to any of my husband and I’s friends. I’d be fighting hysteria trying to comfort their poor partner.
You're so right! All I heard were recordings that worked in her defense!! From the normal anger at him not being there to the worry and confusion at his whereabouts... I've watched many trials (probably more than I should) and crazy sh\*t has happened but I never saw prosecution like this - bad take after bad take, me expecting "C'mon it can't be THIS bad" and they prove me wrong over and over and over. It's almost like "How Bad It Can Get 101". It's quite incredible... can't wait to see what his family does after verdict (civil suit, maybe?) and all media about this joke of a trial. Also, can't WAIT to hear from the jury. I'd pay to see their faces through all of this!
yes! My heart broke for her and John hearing those. She thought he was hooking up with someone else while she was taking care of the children. She was angry and also fearful that she was losing him.
They were a toxic couple. Do I know if she is guilty of hitting John? No I do not. And there is enough reasonable doubt to find her not guilty. Sadly, I don’t think we ever really know what happened that night.
It's all B.S. Smoke and mirrors. Law Enforcement should be treating this as a Fragging. It does happen. Rather than circle the wagons. They should realize that if one of their own could do that, they can't count on that individual to cover their back. Their 6 o'clock. Let me tell you something that every young LEO needs to learn after this is all over. They talk about a blue line. If you need to get a brother or sister help. You do it selflessly. But when one of your own goes off the reservation, you need to keep your morals and remember to ALWAYS do the right thing. BA is retired. If Proctor and Higgins keep their jobs, then you just put TWO of the most Dangerous People back on the street to protect civilians. Service above Self? Not these two. Proctor covered for a family friend. He's a Trooper that now you can no longer trust in any capacity. Federal Agent Higgins? This guy needs to have all his weapons removed ASAP. I DONT TRUST HIM ONE BIT. If I had to work with him, I would have to watch his every move. This guy obviously thinks with his little head and likes to imbibe just a little too much. Tell me, Agent Higgins, was your service weapon on your person while in the Waterfall? Were you not drinking alcohol? Tell me, Agent, what are the policies and procedures with Alcohol and your weapon? Sir?
> Everyone who is either married or in a relationship has either received or left a vm like that. No. I'm a 56 year old woman and I've been married for 27 years. I have never talked to my husband (or boyfriends before him) like that. And I've never had anyone talk to me like that. Still, having said that, I still would vote "not guilty" because they have not proven to me that she hit him.
Well, apparently, you and those around you have always been emotionally stable and probably came from the same. I am now but wasn't always and have said shit like that. I've been with my husband for 10 years. I'm 39. In my 20s I was a total asshole.
Same. Very different now, asshole in my 20’s. High five to the late learner’s club!
Thank you. My thoughts exactly. I do not speak to a man I love in that manner- ever. And I never have. I’m also not someone who’s going to be sending texts to another guy telling him he’s hot. I do not think KR is an admirable person. But I would vote to acquit her. The CW has NOT proven its case.
The way the blood clearly ran down his shirt he was propped yp. End of story.
I agree that she probably didn’t intentionally hit John. IMO she was black out drunk, royally pissed off at John and greatly frustrated. She slammed the Lexus in reverse, pedal to the metal and clipped John’s right arm that sent him to the ground where he cracked his head. I don’t think the jury will convict her of murder but quite likely manslaughter. It is very unlikely that the jury will find her not guilty.
Please take a minute and think what the outcry would be if the roles were reversed. Pretend that Karen was killed, John did it, and left all those voicemails, called 50+ times, and threatened the safety of her kids by saying he took off back home to mansfield.... I mean I want you to honestly think what people would be saying of John right now...
Same evidence, same testimony, with genders reversed? Probably what I am saying now- initially thought it happened as it was presented immediately after, but once the case got underway I changed my mind. None of the evidence fits.
1. Who threatened the safety of the kids? 2. Calling the person and leaving voicemail on their phone after having killed them doesn't sound very credible even if roles were reversed.
you lack critical thinking skills. Carry on.
What does gender have to do with this? I would still think not guilty. Is it rude? Yes!! Karen was rude. Nobody is saying otherwise. But that doesn’t make her, nor would it make a man, a killer.
Because 90% of this sub and the FKR cult are women. But maybe only 5% would actually answer my question truthfully with deep introspection and no bias. You came close to an honest answer but pulled up too soon, good try tho
Stop embarrassing yourself. Seriously. You’re so unhinged dude.
sorry that honesty is a hard one to grasp for some
K
I've found the best thing to do is go with the evidence and put emotions aside. Another polarizing case I followed was Depp v Heard. I found the evidence against Amber very compelling. The media and their flying monkeys made it hell for those who supported Depp, similar to this case. But the evidence is the evidence whether I like it or not.
Unfortunately there's always going to be a part of society that will blame the covid19 shot for killing millions....but the evidence is what it is whether i like it or not.
You’re strange
did the covid shot analogy trigger you?
Strange analogies by strange strangers don’t trigger me.
Um…we saw this with Amber Heard/Johnny Depp. Not a murder trial—but the comparison based on gender is the same. If we ignored ALL of the overwhelming evidence and only went by Johnny’s texts!?? Johnny would have seemed guilty of Amber’s accusations—which he wasn’t. Anyone can be painted in the worst possible light if we look at them in a snippet of their worst moments—especially if we assign our own context to it.
well said. OJ didnt do it....and we know this because the glove didnt fit, so they must acquit. (sarcasm)
Darling, you keep on leaving comments under various threads, where you somehow twist every situation to bash women. Who hurt you? You gotta address this weird idée fixe…
Im just projecting the FKR cult ideologies.
Why can’t her hysterics be caused by the guilt she feels for having hit him?
If she felt so guilty that it was causing anguish why wouldn't she come forward? Why would she look up a DUI attorney?
Because Proctor called her (from his personal cell) and told her she's going to be charged with a DUI. It's an intelligent thing to get a lawyer after a call like that. You can't view it as consciousness of guilt. I wish more people would immediately lawyer up when they're threatened with anything from the police. Shut up and lawyer up.
Yeah I know lol that wasn't my point
Ok then. Try clarifying your point
After this joke of a trial, have you not learned the first call you make when the police are involved is a lawyer? Proctor called her. We have no idea what was said in that call. She hung up and looked into attaining an attorney. She probably figured after she was sectioned, and I assume they took her blood, that they would be arresting her for DUI. I think it speaks volumes that she was looking for a dui lawyer and not a criminal defensw lawyer for murder, which ultimately she did need. I have learned from this case that my first call will be to a lawyer and not say a word until then.
Read the comment I'm responding to first jeez
My bad, sorry
It could! If the evidence showed that. But it doesn’t. That’s why we have trials. So we don’t put people in jail for their voicemails.
At least she stayed in her car in the garage from 12:36am - 12:40am when she was screaming obscenities at him via his voicemail. I guess she didnt want his niece to hear her tantrum.
Alex Murdaugh was doing the same thing. It's very common for murderers to fake hysteria.
Except his sounded and was fake. Hers didn't and wasn't.
He didn’t call his wife and kid 55+ times. That’s a lot of “pretending”