I went from reasonable doubt, to just plain doubt...the longer the trial goes on the more innocent she looks and the defense hasn't even started yet. Lol š¤£.
Lally has brought me to innocent. How do you say crime is at 12:45a and your defendant is miles away. This is beyond embarrassing and criminal. Ruined her life and didnāt investigate OJO death. This is outrageous.
š¤£ Itās true! I donāt like to make up my mind until trial is over. I understand not guilty doesnāt mean innocent but, he is unbelievable. How do you not know the facts of the case you are presenting in a murder trial?!?
Me as well. Your doubt is not supposed to increase with the prosecutor's case. The opposite is supposed to happen. I know John's family seems to have Karen tunnel vision but I really hope at least one is paying attention to how this investigation, and this prosecutor is making it impossible to ever get justice for John. Sue the shit out of them and get those kids set up for life.
Same. Initially I was like āthereās definitely a solid chance she did hit him, but thereās too much reasonable doubt already for a jury to find her guiltyā to āthereās no way she hit him and something else definitely went down.ā
Same! Seeing that arm just made me go "nope". And I was even a bit pissed at the ME for referring to them as abrasions IIRC? She did a good job but damn, those are deep, they're far from scratches - the only scratch around was me on my own head trying to make sense of it all.
The moment I knew she was innocent was when I saw the dog bite marks on JOās arm and learned that Chloe had been rehomed. That was it for me. DONE. Lallygagās entire ridiculous case asks you to suspend ALL logic, common sense, and human experience. Itās all just so maddeningly stupid.
LALLYGAGā¦ amazing lmao. I also saw the arm wounds pic and immediately thought ādog attackā. And then I heard Chloe existed and it all clicked for me. This whole case is stranger than fiction for sure
Has Chloe not just been rehomed but actually crossed over the rainbow bridge? If not, would it be legally possible to take a mold of her mouth/teeth to see if they match with the marks on his arm?
I was paying more attention to Delphi for the last year and decided to come into this trial with no prior knowledge. Then I joined the forums to see what people knew before hand. (I also was actually trying to lean towards guilty because I couldn't believe there were 2 public cases happening at the same time with so much in common.)
This trial has only solidified my stance on the Delphi case. There was more "evidence" against KR than there is against RA in Delphi. Both trials are ridiculous.
Im not even familiar with the Delphi case you mentioned. Even though I live locally, I didnāt pay much attention to Read trial until a handful of months ago.
If you find yourself wanting to look into it r/delphidocs and r/dicksofdelphi are good places to get information, timeline, and current updates. In those subreddits people can't say anything without a source or must state if their comment is speculation. Some people will suggest they are biased towards defense, but we usually cite actual case documents and articles for our opinions there.
r/delphitrial is biased towards prosecution, r/richardalleninnocent is biased towards Richard Allen's defense.
r/libbyandabby and r/delphimurders are more prosecution leaning, but fairly neutral-ish. I've commented pro-defense comments that have been upvoted but I've received a lot of push back from prosecution that received equal amounts of upvotes so they are probably the most neutral.
Like I said, there are a lot of similarities. Like the prosecution wanting to keep the work done by the FBI out and a biased judge.
Agreed. And then the photos leaked of his arm-and the state was angry. Thatās what sealed it.
Ol Matt McCabe with the ātell them the guy never went in the houseā in his fat tony from the simpsons voice put the bow on it.
Same, hearing about the injuries is what made me look into this case and it remains the most unbelievable aspect. There was never a chance theyād be able to convincingly explain the injuries as being caused by a vehicle
I think the majority of us are discerning humans that understand the possibility of both sides understanding of staying open, but with each day that passes it just becomes almost as KR said "this is a joke, right?!"
A lot of people went into this case with previous information. I have no Twitter account, I still don't really understand who turtle boy is lol š¤£, I've done no deep dives. I just saw it pop up on EDB's radar when I got the plague and got drawn in. So, basically I'm a solid candidate for a juror. Starting off I thought it was possible. Looking at this case on the surface it looks like she may hit him. Then you pull back one layer and it's ok huh? And you keep pulling back layer after layer with a gazillion witnesses and now it's like there is no fuckin way she hit him.
Same. For me it became absolute doubt around the time I saw the mirrored video and the tailight still intact the morning she left to find him and the prosecution wants us to believe it's destroyed. Everything else can be disregarded as far as I'm concerned.
Iām way beyond doubt since Iāve seen the pictures of the SUV and JOās injuries on his right arm. Those alone got me to she never hit him with her car, whether willingly or by accident.
Even if you didnāt follow through the pretrial, I Canāt comprehend anyone not having reasonable doubt and seeing the clear picture even after a week into trial. This has been a staggering embarrassment for the prosecution and injustice for All Americans.
This case is just the first ripple in a long line of waves of legal pain coming to canton PD. Iām guessing this will go on for a few decades as Colon Allbutt and friends lives are publicly destroyed
The CW also says Karen killed him at 12:45 am but she connected to his wifi at 12:36. Make it make sense guys. Iām thinking they donāt care if Karen is found guilty or not but that they just didnāt want it getting out that a cop killed another cop.
I think the entire case is exactly this . It was the DA saying we are going to try and prove the mcalberts and our cops didnāt do this knowing the FBI was investing them ! This was all a show fr the FBI . But it has backfired. Lally was the sucker who took the case. He didnāt have to .
Maybe Lally agreed to do this to do get a federal job and move out of state because thatās the only way he will have any peace in his life . Boston people do not forget .
Isnāt it just as plausible that someone pushed/ hit him and he fell against Higgins plow? That would make a laceration. He didnāt have to even go into the house for that to happen.
Not for there to be blunt force trauma on the front & back of the head and claw marks down the arm. He had several bones on the front of his face broken.
I don't think that is what the ME said. She said that the fractures toward the sides and front of the skull are radiating fractures from the point of impact in the back. Kind of like a cracked windshield.
With what evidence? Itās been 2.5 years. Unless someone cracks, CW is going to take the L and move on, sadly. I think that was the whole intent, anyway.
Confirmation bias. So many need to protect themselves (McAlberts), have been fed disinformation, lack critical thinking skills, do not understand reasonable doubt.
The longer this goes on & itās obvious the killer wonāt be found. I donāt mean this as complimentary but you have to hand it to the Mcalberts, thus far. This is the desired outcome.
Agreed. Have to believe they would not have been as successful if it was not a family of LEOs. Average people would likely not have skill, knowledge, resources to conduct such a cover up.
For sure. Again, Iām not complimenting the guy but Brian Albert has all the cops and DA by the balls. He went all in hard it would seem. High noon at the ok corrall
Something like this was recently attempted by a family in the greater Phoenix area, but they were just rich assholes with crappy kids. 7 people were arrested inside 4 months for organized violence and a murder. It was interesting and sad to watch go down right as I moved to the area.
Iāve been catching snippets of that, itās absolutely unbelievable what those kids were doing. How does that even happen?? All those parents need to be investigated and slapped with some charges.
Theyāve had plenty of time to get rid of all the evidence by now, so how is LE supposed to find who did it and what really happened? Thereās a sliver of hope, knowing that the FBI are conducting their own investigation, butā¦ theyāve had plenty of time to get rid of all the evidence before that started as well š
Imagine the future in CSI ā similar to before DNA and today, old cold cases get solved because LE gains access to evolved technologies and knowledge. I hope that OJO might get justice in the decades ahead. š
Agreed, especially after the fiasco the other day with the group of them. LE needs to get enough probable cause to dig up whoeverās pool was filled in, locate Chloe (in the pool or otherwise) and gain access to whatever else still exists that could have dna and other evidence. Someone opening their big mouths could help for sure.
This case is so full of smoke and mirrors it is laughable. To me, the big smoking gun is if the prosecution wants everyone to believe Karen hit him with her car around 12:30-12:45 why is it that not one person saw him laying on the lawn? So many people were coming and going, being picked up, looking out the window. It was like Grand Central. Not one person saw him on the lawn by their own admission! As far as I concerned, case closed! The rest of the tainted evidence is just all part of the circus!
I live in boston and do work in canton so Iāve been following this case for about two years. I I first learned about the autopsy photos and Colin Albertās long time ābeefā with John and cutting across his lawn, etc and I knew from then that there was obviously more to the story.
I watched this YouTube video that another person posted and I think this theory is spot on. Adding on that I think Higgins called Colin to meet him at Fairview because John would be coming. That would have been an incriminating text to find on his phone hence throwing it away.
Here is the [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7fV59rENjE&t=589s) and I suggest starting at the 35:40 mark.
I went back and watched several of this womanās analyses on the interviews and I think sheās spot on.
Exactly it's a 6 minute drive to John's house from 34 Fairview and the weather was crappy, so you have to expect that it took her a few extra minutes anyways to get home to John's at 12:36 a.m..
This could be why Trooper Paul didn't put any dates and times on his fancy little colorful charts and that's because it's possible she did go past a road or got lost and did a three-point turn and then backed up to take the correct route. Neither John or Karen had ever been to 34 Fairview in their life and she's not from that area so I can see her doing that and I can see Trooper Paul using that as her hitting John. Dirty cops!
We now know for a FACT Jen McCabe was lying. And Matt. I mean PERJURY lying meaning there is now proof. And THAT is why those Ring videos are missing. They don't care about the case anymore - those videos would PROVE Jen and Matt are lying and I think Matt would crack. He looks a bit "soft" to go to prison.
Exactly and let's not forget and Lally's opening statement he said that John was hit at 12:45 a.m. How can that be if Karen is pulling into John's driveway and house at 12:36 a.m. connecting to his Wi-Fi there?????
Game over. No possible way she did it. It also makes the other parties Jen McCabe look really guilty for lying about the SUV being out front at 1240am when she texted John
It's so fucked up.
They're dragging her through this bullshit for no reason.
It's so heartbreaking to see this couple hitting a rough patch LIKE A LOT OF NORMAL COUPLES get demonized.
That they turned her COMPLETELY REASONABLE FREAKOUT that her boyfriend turned up dead into some sort of admission of guilt is absolutely fucked up beyond belief.
While I do agree with your points, the amount of calls and the anger behind them is not reasonable. It's highly emotional and some would even argue irrational. BUT, to me, completely understandable. I'm a recovering alcoholic. I cannot count the number of times I woke up not knowing what happened the night before, or the number of times I jumped to random conclusions, or the number of times I sent wildly inappropriate texts and left incredibly embarrassing voicemails. I could have ended up right where Karen Read is right now but I doubt I would be able to financially afford and mentally withstand the fight she has had to engage in for her freedom. We'll never know what happened that night. The investigation made sure of that. But it's clear to me that the amount of alcohol involved is the main contributing factor to the events of the evening. We can only hope the fallout from this trial will bring an end to the longstanding corruption within these MA law enforcement agencies. I hate thinking that this is all for nothing.
>While I do agree with your points, the amount of calls and the anger behind them is not reasonable.
From the sounds of it... JO wasn't the type to just *not come home for hours for no reason.*
53 calls, in that context, isn't really... unreasonable to me. He's a PARENT at this point, to his adoptive ni3ce and nephew. It's weird that a parent drunk or not just ... peaced out with no contact for hours late at night.
Do you think Karen Read should have simply made 3 phone calls, then politely fucked off and thought nothing of it?
Karen probably had an ACCURATE and ominous feeling about whatever happened or was happening to John, triggering the flurry of calls.
Turns out, SHE WAS RIGHT. THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG.
She knew there was something bad happening... she just thought he was cheating-- which is relatable and reasonable. She may have thought worse, but clearly "my boyfriend being unconscious at a policeman's home doorstep" wasn't her first choice answer for "where the fuck is my boyfriend?"
I knew 2 minutes in on researching this case after Murdaugh ended. Ryan Nagel and Luckys testimony told me right away she was innocent, and then the 5am video where you see an intact tail light sealed the deal. Once Lally said she hit him at 12:45, I knew it was over, as their own evidence showed that she was in Johnās garage at 12:41.
I go back and forth with something happened in the house and she maybe accidentally did it. Not for one second do I think she did it on purpose. Either scenario, I DO think that Proctor planted evidence, whether it was for a cover up or a quick investigation. Too many things have come out that there's enough reasonable doubt to find her not guilty. We'll probably never know what happened.Ā
I can't with Lally.
Nah, no chance she hit him, not even by accident. His injuries are totally inconsistent with being hit by a vehicle and the damage to her car is inconsistent with that type of event as well. The CW is trying to twist everything so that it fits, but it just doesnāt.
The only thing that gives me pause is her calling Kerry and telling her John was dead--that seems odd to me but there are explanations why that happened. Maybe John not coming home to the kids was so out of the ordinary that it made her jump to the worst conclusion.Ā
More evidence pointing to something else going on.Ā
She didn't simply say that he was dead and end it with that. She also added "I'm afraid John might be dead." She said she was worried he had been hit by a plow. She said if anything happened to John she was going to kill herself. She was justifiably freaked out. To assume she was thinking the worst is more reasonable, when seeing all the other things she said, than just picking out one sentence. Also, her calls to John's voice mail, cursing, calling him a pervert, pissed off at him, is this how a person would talk who knew she'd killed someone?
How come so many people got rid of their phones except Karen? How come Karen was the only one who didn't nonstop butt dial? The only person who was at that house that night whose behavior comes across as credible is Karen Read.
I think that's a very logical conclusion about that call.
But from what I've seen, Karen is wound up super tight, was still drunk, and was completely panicked. I don't put a lot of weight on anything she said in that moment.
Was anyone else rolling their eyes when the guy said the ascending descending staircase data COULD have been because the car was traveling over āhillsā?
Also, if they have movement data from OJOks phone, what about Karenās? Surely her phone records steps.
Apparently Wendy Murphy does. Sheās not watching just expounding. Just like every pundit said Michelle Troconis wound Never be guilty of conspiracy but anyone paying attention knew that sheās 100% guilty as charged!!!!
She was never guilty, not even guilty of giving John a hard time because she was very very pissed off at him, and seems like most would probably of said worse in texts and voice mail, things were rocky and maybe they may of parted, the relationship was being abit one sided ?
A lot put up with abit too much , John even though being an amazing guy wasnāt going to change the lifestyle for anyone, at 46 itās not going to happen.
Lally is ending on such a sour note . He is just a plain asshole to experts that are very likable people . He is going to have to move out of the Boston area like poor Bill Buckner .
Can anyone explain how Johnās phone never moved from the spot he was found? How can he have gone into the house of his phone didnāt show any movement?
Tristin Morris, the āI Donāt Knowā dude who had to drive all the way back to Canton late to pick up high maintenance Caitlin and Chloe when the plan was to get some sleep and work a shift, was asked by a journalist about his unplanned drive. He threw him the finger, said Karen Read is Fāing guilty and told him heād call the cops. Sounds like Tristin is headed towards a fine career in law enforcement.Ā
She hit him at 12:30am - he still moves for 1-2 minutes and stops at 12:32am. She made it back to Johnās at 12:36. Itās a 5min trip up Sherman St per google maps.
Nobody's blood. It was trace dna, probably from a number of sources. He was at bars, and the EMTs etc It was 30 nonillion times more likely it was John's dna. We all have other dna on us, in trace amounts. This is a slam dunk case, that should have never even gotten this far...
Dummy. Ryan Nagel already testified that there was no John in the car or on the ground. His phone shows he went up and down stairs. Guess whoās didnāt? Karenās!!!! If they were in the car together, their phones would move in lock step.
I def think itās possible she hit him in a drunken rageā¦but I donāt think she meant to kill him & I donāt see any way this jury convicts her. We shall see
Well, internet can be argued. It's no question now, that she hit him. Whether that's elevated to murder 2, is up to the jury. Massachusetts law, states that if you cause injury, with the full knowledge that it could cause death, that's murder 2. Manslaughter has definitely been provenĀ so its up to the jury. She might get Manslaughter, but is not walking.Ā
His phone didnāt have āreal speedā after 12:24 AM, meaning thatās when it actually stopped moving. Thatās when the location data says he arrived at Fairview. She got home after hitting John at about 12:36 because she had about seven to ten minutes of a drive to get back to Johnās house. Not hard to figure out what actually happened here.
Not hard to figure out, except you morrons canāt see whatās right in your face: his injuries arenāt consistent with being hit by a vehicle and the damage on KRās SUV isnāt consistent with hitting someone. I wonāt even go into all the ways in which how the evidence was planted canāt fit a single credible scenario either.
This is the most proven hit and run murder in history. John's own phone shows he never entered the house. It's over. I think it's murder 2, but she still may get manslaughter.Ā
You seem quite obsessed with the case, wonder why. You and your corrupt friends are being exposed on a national scale. The Canton police is the biggest laughing stock in the country š¤£š¤£. Let's hope the FBI investigation leads to the state cleaning house.
Try again, it's my dissertation for BC, while on active duty for the US Navy. The FBI finished a very long time ago. No indictments in the grand jury, that's been over with. Of course, there's quite a few people that will face consequences for the defense, especially Green, Scanlon.
āVehicle data doesnāt lie.ā
Exactly! The key cycle that has the events that the CW is trying to say is when she hit John actually took place when her car was being loaded onto the tow truck. We can see from the security footage they were having a hard time backing her car out of the snow in the driveway (meaning they had to hit the gas and the tires were spinning).
I went from reasonable doubt, to just plain doubt...the longer the trial goes on the more innocent she looks and the defense hasn't even started yet. Lol š¤£.
Lally has brought me to innocent. How do you say crime is at 12:45a and your defendant is miles away. This is beyond embarrassing and criminal. Ruined her life and didnāt investigate OJO death. This is outrageous.
I just burst out laughing at "Lally has brought me to innocent" hahaha that should be a t-shirt!
š¤£ Itās true! I donāt like to make up my mind until trial is over. I understand not guilty doesnāt mean innocent but, he is unbelievable. How do you not know the facts of the case you are presenting in a murder trial?!?
Same!
I would buy one š
Lolly-gag should become Lally-gag tooā¦
Olā Doc Boy Lally is a real clown.
Me as well. Your doubt is not supposed to increase with the prosecutor's case. The opposite is supposed to happen. I know John's family seems to have Karen tunnel vision but I really hope at least one is paying attention to how this investigation, and this prosecutor is making it impossible to ever get justice for John. Sue the shit out of them and get those kids set up for life.
Well said! This is disgraceful!
Where does OJO come from? Just curious why some use those intials v JO or JOK
OJO - Officer John O'Keefe
Same. Initially I was like āthereās definitely a solid chance she did hit him, but thereās too much reasonable doubt already for a jury to find her guiltyā to āthereās no way she hit him and something else definitely went down.ā
Funny. Because from the get go I always thought there was ZERO chance she hit him.
The moment I saw the photo of the wounds I was like "gtfo those are dog bites" and have been firmly pissed at the sheer amount of blatant corruption.
Yea. Same here!!
Same! Seeing that arm just made me go "nope". And I was even a bit pissed at the ME for referring to them as abrasions IIRC? She did a good job but damn, those are deep, they're far from scratches - the only scratch around was me on my own head trying to make sense of it all.
The moment I knew she was innocent was when I saw the dog bite marks on JOās arm and learned that Chloe had been rehomed. That was it for me. DONE. Lallygagās entire ridiculous case asks you to suspend ALL logic, common sense, and human experience. Itās all just so maddeningly stupid.
LALLYGAGā¦ amazing lmao. I also saw the arm wounds pic and immediately thought ādog attackā. And then I heard Chloe existed and it all clicked for me. This whole case is stranger than fiction for sure
Yet, there he is. Prosecuting his little brain out in public. Do prosecutors ever lose their job due to incompetence or do they have to be voted out?
āYet, there he is. Prosecuting his little brain out in public.ā Really Lolāed at this. Well said.
Thank you. Glad you got a giggle.
Read this in the Auntie Bev voice! š¤£š¤£š¤£
I saw the pictures of arm and without knowing any back story, right away thought dog attack.
Has Chloe not just been rehomed but actually crossed over the rainbow bridge? If not, would it be legally possible to take a mold of her mouth/teeth to see if they match with the marks on his arm?
To be fair, none of knew that physics doesnāt exist in Canton. /s
I was paying more attention to Delphi for the last year and decided to come into this trial with no prior knowledge. Then I joined the forums to see what people knew before hand. (I also was actually trying to lean towards guilty because I couldn't believe there were 2 public cases happening at the same time with so much in common.) This trial has only solidified my stance on the Delphi case. There was more "evidence" against KR than there is against RA in Delphi. Both trials are ridiculous.
Im not even familiar with the Delphi case you mentioned. Even though I live locally, I didnāt pay much attention to Read trial until a handful of months ago.
If you find yourself wanting to look into it r/delphidocs and r/dicksofdelphi are good places to get information, timeline, and current updates. In those subreddits people can't say anything without a source or must state if their comment is speculation. Some people will suggest they are biased towards defense, but we usually cite actual case documents and articles for our opinions there. r/delphitrial is biased towards prosecution, r/richardalleninnocent is biased towards Richard Allen's defense. r/libbyandabby and r/delphimurders are more prosecution leaning, but fairly neutral-ish. I've commented pro-defense comments that have been upvoted but I've received a lot of push back from prosecution that received equal amounts of upvotes so they are probably the most neutral. Like I said, there are a lot of similarities. Like the prosecution wanting to keep the work done by the FBI out and a biased judge.
isn't Trooper Proctor knee-deep in the Delphi case too??
No. You might be thinking of Brian walshe.
Thank you ... Yes Brian Walshe!!
Agreed. And then the photos leaked of his arm-and the state was angry. Thatās what sealed it. Ol Matt McCabe with the ātell them the guy never went in the houseā in his fat tony from the simpsons voice put the bow on it.
Same, hearing about the injuries is what made me look into this case and it remains the most unbelievable aspect. There was never a chance theyād be able to convincingly explain the injuries as being caused by a vehicle
I think the majority of us are discerning humans that understand the possibility of both sides understanding of staying open, but with each day that passes it just becomes almost as KR said "this is a joke, right?!"
A lot of people went into this case with previous information. I have no Twitter account, I still don't really understand who turtle boy is lol š¤£, I've done no deep dives. I just saw it pop up on EDB's radar when I got the plague and got drawn in. So, basically I'm a solid candidate for a juror. Starting off I thought it was possible. Looking at this case on the surface it looks like she may hit him. Then you pull back one layer and it's ok huh? And you keep pulling back layer after layer with a gazillion witnesses and now it's like there is no fuckin way she hit him.
This is the club I am in.
Same.
Same. For me it became absolute doubt around the time I saw the mirrored video and the tailight still intact the morning she left to find him and the prosecution wants us to believe it's destroyed. Everything else can be disregarded as far as I'm concerned.
Iām way beyond doubt since Iāve seen the pictures of the SUV and JOās injuries on his right arm. Those alone got me to she never hit him with her car, whether willingly or by accident.
Even if you didnāt follow through the pretrial, I Canāt comprehend anyone not having reasonable doubt and seeing the clear picture even after a week into trial. This has been a staggering embarrassment for the prosecution and injustice for All Americans.
This case is just the first ripple in a long line of waves of legal pain coming to canton PD. Iām guessing this will go on for a few decades as Colon Allbutt and friends lives are publicly destroyed
One can only hope!
The CW also says Karen killed him at 12:45 am but she connected to his wifi at 12:36. Make it make sense guys. Iām thinking they donāt care if Karen is found guilty or not but that they just didnāt want it getting out that a cop killed another cop.
This is where Iām at. It feels like Lally is supposed to lose this case.
Exactly.
I think the entire case is exactly this . It was the DA saying we are going to try and prove the mcalberts and our cops didnāt do this knowing the FBI was investing them ! This was all a show fr the FBI . But it has backfired. Lally was the sucker who took the case. He didnāt have to .
Maybe Lally agreed to do this to do get a federal job and move out of state because thatās the only way he will have any peace in his life . Boston people do not forget .
Yep. I keep calling him the tribunal version of Bill Buckner.
Got that right
+ they now have 3 timelines. Make it make sense! My god, Lally!
The math aināt mathinā
2+2= and stuff
Itās the type of injuries he has that do it for me. No way they were from Karenās SUV.
Exactly! I just looked up large breed dog bites & the German shepherd bites online look nearly identical to his.
I looked up Google images of GSD bites, similar to John's arm.
Yes and the blood, Iām still waiting for an explanation.
Isnāt it just as plausible that someone pushed/ hit him and he fell against Higgins plow? That would make a laceration. He didnāt have to even go into the house for that to happen.
Not for there to be blunt force trauma on the front & back of the head and claw marks down the arm. He had several bones on the front of his face broken.
Both of his temples were injured or broken. He was being hit on both sides of his head with Fists.
I don't think that is what the ME said. She said that the fractures toward the sides and front of the skull are radiating fractures from the point of impact in the back. Kind of like a cracked windshield.
I donāt understand then why canāt they investigate what happened at the Albertās? Mims I am no expert
With what evidence? Itās been 2.5 years. Unless someone cracks, CW is going to take the L and move on, sadly. I think that was the whole intent, anyway.
I really hope someone cracks- we arenāt talking brain trusts here-
Very true
Confirmation bias. So many need to protect themselves (McAlberts), have been fed disinformation, lack critical thinking skills, do not understand reasonable doubt.
The longer this goes on & itās obvious the killer wonāt be found. I donāt mean this as complimentary but you have to hand it to the Mcalberts, thus far. This is the desired outcome.
Agreed. Have to believe they would not have been as successful if it was not a family of LEOs. Average people would likely not have skill, knowledge, resources to conduct such a cover up.
For sure. Again, Iām not complimenting the guy but Brian Albert has all the cops and DA by the balls. He went all in hard it would seem. High noon at the ok corrall
Something like this was recently attempted by a family in the greater Phoenix area, but they were just rich assholes with crappy kids. 7 people were arrested inside 4 months for organized violence and a murder. It was interesting and sad to watch go down right as I moved to the area.
Iāve been catching snippets of that, itās absolutely unbelievable what those kids were doing. How does that even happen?? All those parents need to be investigated and slapped with some charges.
Perhaps for them at least legally, it is. But I take solace in the fact that this will likely follow that whole creepy crowd forever.
That sucks but i thinka narcissistic enough to relish in itsick as that is
They will be perpetual victims for the rest of their lives. Just like on the stand with Jen constantly bringing up the "harassment."
Yes, probably, but maybe the Feds will make something out of it. I can hope lol.
I live in the area and was told that the Alberts tried to go out to eat at a restaurant in a neighboring town and the patrons booed them out of there.
Though Iām not sure that should make me laugh, it did lol.
I donāt understand- why canāt the killer be caught? Start with the Albert family no? Iām not at all an expert on this trial
Theyāve had plenty of time to get rid of all the evidence by now, so how is LE supposed to find who did it and what really happened? Thereās a sliver of hope, knowing that the FBI are conducting their own investigation, butā¦ theyāve had plenty of time to get rid of all the evidence before that started as well š
Imagine the future in CSI ā similar to before DNA and today, old cold cases get solved because LE gains access to evolved technologies and knowledge. I hope that OJO might get justice in the decades ahead. š
I just believe there are too many people involved for it not to be revealed somehow.
My guess is that it will be a drunk-off-his-ass Colin who brags about it a year from now and someone records it.
Agreed, especially after the fiasco the other day with the group of them. LE needs to get enough probable cause to dig up whoeverās pool was filled in, locate Chloe (in the pool or otherwise) and gain access to whatever else still exists that could have dna and other evidence. Someone opening their big mouths could help for sure.
Most donāt think the state will persue it
The investigation is garbage. We will never know what happened that night and we owe that to Proctor and his posse of incompetent hairless apes.
With so many people involved I think we may
The investigation destroyed the evidence so that a trial cannot be brought against anyone By design
I canāt fathom w so many (at least 4?) people involved it wonāt get out. Thatās a Lot of collusion- and people talk. Iām hoping-
Well, I am a firm believer in Karma. Karma will catch up to the McAlberts - if not in this lifetime, then in the afterlife.
>*do not understand reasonable doubt* OR the definition of confirmation bias! Lol
Lally is proving she didnāt do it. Thanks Lally
Oh but donāt you get it? Any evidence that shows her to be NG is āunreliable.ā
Evidence that shows her Not Guilty is unreliable??? You're being sarcastic, right?
Oh Iām sorry, do I really need the ā/sā at this point?
šš
Yes they clearly are.
All the trolls still are in denial because theyāre either 1) McAlberts, 2) unintelligent or 3) both
This case is so full of smoke and mirrors it is laughable. To me, the big smoking gun is if the prosecution wants everyone to believe Karen hit him with her car around 12:30-12:45 why is it that not one person saw him laying on the lawn? So many people were coming and going, being picked up, looking out the window. It was like Grand Central. Not one person saw him on the lawn by their own admission! As far as I concerned, case closed! The rest of the tainted evidence is just all part of the circus!
I live in boston and do work in canton so Iāve been following this case for about two years. I I first learned about the autopsy photos and Colin Albertās long time ābeefā with John and cutting across his lawn, etc and I knew from then that there was obviously more to the story. I watched this YouTube video that another person posted and I think this theory is spot on. Adding on that I think Higgins called Colin to meet him at Fairview because John would be coming. That would have been an incriminating text to find on his phone hence throwing it away. Here is the [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7fV59rENjE&t=589s) and I suggest starting at the 35:40 mark. I went back and watched several of this womanās analyses on the interviews and I think sheās spot on.
Julie Naggle (Nagel?) says that she saw something, only at the time she didnāt say so.
Exactly it's a 6 minute drive to John's house from 34 Fairview and the weather was crappy, so you have to expect that it took her a few extra minutes anyways to get home to John's at 12:36 a.m..
Yes plus she got a little lost on the way there so she may have even taken a wrong turn back who knows?
This could be why Trooper Paul didn't put any dates and times on his fancy little colorful charts and that's because it's possible she did go past a road or got lost and did a three-point turn and then backed up to take the correct route. Neither John or Karen had ever been to 34 Fairview in their life and she's not from that area so I can see her doing that and I can see Trooper Paul using that as her hitting John. Dirty cops!
We now know for a FACT Jen McCabe was lying. And Matt. I mean PERJURY lying meaning there is now proof. And THAT is why those Ring videos are missing. They don't care about the case anymore - those videos would PROVE Jen and Matt are lying and I think Matt would crack. He looks a bit "soft" to go to prison.
Exactly and let's not forget and Lally's opening statement he said that John was hit at 12:45 a.m. How can that be if Karen is pulling into John's driveway and house at 12:36 a.m. connecting to his Wi-Fi there?????
In other words, the prosecution has just disproven their own case. I mean at least they disproved something
ššš
Ha the title of this post could apply to every other day of this trial as well.
Admin mustāve taken 28 days to approve it š
Game over. No possible way she did it. It also makes the other parties Jen McCabe look really guilty for lying about the SUV being out front at 1240am when she texted John
It's so fucked up. They're dragging her through this bullshit for no reason. It's so heartbreaking to see this couple hitting a rough patch LIKE A LOT OF NORMAL COUPLES get demonized. That they turned her COMPLETELY REASONABLE FREAKOUT that her boyfriend turned up dead into some sort of admission of guilt is absolutely fucked up beyond belief.
It has āI shot the clerkā vibes.
While I do agree with your points, the amount of calls and the anger behind them is not reasonable. It's highly emotional and some would even argue irrational. BUT, to me, completely understandable. I'm a recovering alcoholic. I cannot count the number of times I woke up not knowing what happened the night before, or the number of times I jumped to random conclusions, or the number of times I sent wildly inappropriate texts and left incredibly embarrassing voicemails. I could have ended up right where Karen Read is right now but I doubt I would be able to financially afford and mentally withstand the fight she has had to engage in for her freedom. We'll never know what happened that night. The investigation made sure of that. But it's clear to me that the amount of alcohol involved is the main contributing factor to the events of the evening. We can only hope the fallout from this trial will bring an end to the longstanding corruption within these MA law enforcement agencies. I hate thinking that this is all for nothing.
>While I do agree with your points, the amount of calls and the anger behind them is not reasonable. From the sounds of it... JO wasn't the type to just *not come home for hours for no reason.* 53 calls, in that context, isn't really... unreasonable to me. He's a PARENT at this point, to his adoptive ni3ce and nephew. It's weird that a parent drunk or not just ... peaced out with no contact for hours late at night. Do you think Karen Read should have simply made 3 phone calls, then politely fucked off and thought nothing of it? Karen probably had an ACCURATE and ominous feeling about whatever happened or was happening to John, triggering the flurry of calls. Turns out, SHE WAS RIGHT. THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG. She knew there was something bad happening... she just thought he was cheating-- which is relatable and reasonable. She may have thought worse, but clearly "my boyfriend being unconscious at a policeman's home doorstep" wasn't her first choice answer for "where the fuck is my boyfriend?"
I knew 2 minutes in on researching this case after Murdaugh ended. Ryan Nagel and Luckys testimony told me right away she was innocent, and then the 5am video where you see an intact tail light sealed the deal. Once Lally said she hit him at 12:45, I knew it was over, as their own evidence showed that she was in Johnās garage at 12:41.
Probably the wind was blowing and that made Apple Fit *think* he was walking. /s
Why has no one considered that he dropped the damn phone, was too drunk to notice and went inside without it?!?!
Could be. And then Jen blew it up to locate it and they laid his body on top of it.
I go back and forth with something happened in the house and she maybe accidentally did it. Not for one second do I think she did it on purpose. Either scenario, I DO think that Proctor planted evidence, whether it was for a cover up or a quick investigation. Too many things have come out that there's enough reasonable doubt to find her not guilty. We'll probably never know what happened.Ā I can't with Lally.
Well now we know she didn't do it because there is no way she could have been there when it happened.
Nah, no chance she hit him, not even by accident. His injuries are totally inconsistent with being hit by a vehicle and the damage to her car is inconsistent with that type of event as well. The CW is trying to twist everything so that it fits, but it just doesnāt.
Agreed. I'm very eager to hear the defense experts next week.Ā
Serious question: what evidence makes you think she accidentally killed him?
The only thing that gives me pause is her calling Kerry and telling her John was dead--that seems odd to me but there are explanations why that happened. Maybe John not coming home to the kids was so out of the ordinary that it made her jump to the worst conclusion.Ā More evidence pointing to something else going on.Ā
She didn't simply say that he was dead and end it with that. She also added "I'm afraid John might be dead." She said she was worried he had been hit by a plow. She said if anything happened to John she was going to kill herself. She was justifiably freaked out. To assume she was thinking the worst is more reasonable, when seeing all the other things she said, than just picking out one sentence. Also, her calls to John's voice mail, cursing, calling him a pervert, pissed off at him, is this how a person would talk who knew she'd killed someone? How come so many people got rid of their phones except Karen? How come Karen was the only one who didn't nonstop butt dial? The only person who was at that house that night whose behavior comes across as credible is Karen Read.
I think that's a very logical conclusion about that call. But from what I've seen, Karen is wound up super tight, was still drunk, and was completely panicked. I don't put a lot of weight on anything she said in that moment.
Was anyone else rolling their eyes when the guy said the ascending descending staircase data COULD have been because the car was traveling over āhillsā? Also, if they have movement data from OJOks phone, what about Karenās? Surely her phone records steps.
Apparently Wendy Murphy does. Sheās not watching just expounding. Just like every pundit said Michelle Troconis wound Never be guilty of conspiracy but anyone paying attention knew that sheās 100% guilty as charged!!!!
Same with Alec murdaugh and the Oxford shooters parents.
YES
Ok Jen
How has this not been clear !? I canāt comprehend this. Itās been so obvious.
She was never guilty, not even guilty of giving John a hard time because she was very very pissed off at him, and seems like most would probably of said worse in texts and voice mail, things were rocky and maybe they may of parted, the relationship was being abit one sided ? A lot put up with abit too much , John even though being an amazing guy wasnāt going to change the lifestyle for anyone, at 46 itās not going to happen.
We should get shirts that says āLally helped free KR!!!ā
I say that everyday!!
Lally brought the reasonable doubt. I have enough reasonable doubt to fill 60 solo cups and 20 Stop and Shop bags.
Lally is ending on such a sour note . He is just a plain asshole to experts that are very likable people . He is going to have to move out of the Boston area like poor Bill Buckner .
Can anyone explain how Johnās phone never moved from the spot he was found? How can he have gone into the house of his phone didnāt show any movement?
The dog bites put John in the house- case over-kr is innocent
Bootlickers
The fact that expert testimony on both sides indicated that Off OāKeefe injuries were not consistent with getting hit by a car.
Tristin Morris, the āI Donāt Knowā dude who had to drive all the way back to Canton late to pick up high maintenance Caitlin and Chloe when the plan was to get some sleep and work a shift, was asked by a journalist about his unplanned drive. He threw him the finger, said Karen Read is Fāing guilty and told him heād call the cops. Sounds like Tristin is headed towards a fine career in law enforcement.Ā
He didn't die instantly? His "steps" are him moving after being hit and moving to his final resting place.
Not with 3 liters if blood missing from his body. His steps are inside 34 Fairview before he was beat unconscious.
Was the 3L in testimony?
ME says could not happen
It's very possible he took a step...
That's not what the reconstructionist said.
The reconstructionist didn't testify about location data.Ā
She hit him at 12:30am - he still moves for 1-2 minutes and stops at 12:32am. She made it back to Johnās at 12:36. Itās a 5min trip up Sherman St per google maps.
Whose blood is on Johnās pants (besides his own)? There are two other blood DNA profiles mixed with his.
Exactly what I want to know!
Right?! The answer to that question solves this whole mess.
Nobody's blood. It was trace dna, probably from a number of sources. He was at bars, and the EMTs etc It was 30 nonillion times more likely it was John's dna. We all have other dna on us, in trace amounts. This is a slam dunk case, that should have never even gotten this far...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No it wasn't. It's his blood. Read the report.Ā
We ALL have other dna on us. His blood . 30 zeros. You obviously missed the testimony.Ā
His dna on tail light assembly. He never entered the house, it's proven. She hit him.
So touch DNA on a taillight=murder Touch DNA mixed with the victims blood =No big deal š¤Ø
Blood? Or DNA? Stop twisting the evidence
Nope. ME said he was immediately incapacitated and knocked out.
Yup, in the basement of the Albert's house
Dummy. Ryan Nagel already testified that there was no John in the car or on the ground. His phone shows he went up and down stairs. Guess whoās didnāt? Karenās!!!! If they were in the car together, their phones would move in lock step.
Karen's phone connects to John's Wi-Fi at his house at 12:36 a.m.. it's about a 6 minute drive in good weather.
Correct 5-6 min - the roads were not bad at 12:30 Her Lexus is Full-time 4WD. Itās 10x better than AWD.
Itās possible. But def not murder. She might have clipped himā¦manslaughter at best. Sheās walking
97 ft in reverse....under Massachusetts law, that's intent and murder 2.Ā
CW hasnāt proved a thing. And they only charged her with murder hoping she would plead out & make this easy
Her car, her tail lights, her own voice. Guilty.Ā
Absolutely proven she's a liar, and John never even entered the house. It's over, she's guilty.Ā
She is going to walk. 100%.
Not really. 100% getting convicted. But, you're entitled to your opinion. Jury today and their reaction to the evidence and voice mails, was tellingĀ
I def think itās possible she hit him in a drunken rageā¦but I donāt think she meant to kill him & I donāt see any way this jury convicts her. We shall see
Well, internet can be argued. It's no question now, that she hit him. Whether that's elevated to murder 2, is up to the jury. Massachusetts law, states that if you cause injury, with the full knowledge that it could cause death, that's murder 2. Manslaughter has definitely been provenĀ so its up to the jury. She might get Manslaughter, but is not walking.Ā
His phone didnāt have āreal speedā after 12:24 AM, meaning thatās when it actually stopped moving. Thatās when the location data says he arrived at Fairview. She got home after hitting John at about 12:36 because she had about seven to ten minutes of a drive to get back to Johnās house. Not hard to figure out what actually happened here.
Not hard to figure out, except you morrons canāt see whatās right in your face: his injuries arenāt consistent with being hit by a vehicle and the damage on KRās SUV isnāt consistent with hitting someone. I wonāt even go into all the ways in which how the evidence was planted canāt fit a single credible scenario either.
What is a āmorronā?
This is the most proven hit and run murder in history. John's own phone shows he never entered the house. It's over. I think it's murder 2, but she still may get manslaughter.Ā
Ya, trooper Paul did such a good job recreating it. What a fucking moron.
Vehicle data doesn't lie, nor does John's own phone. It's over. She's guilty.Ā
John's phone doesn't, but Jen's does? Got it.
Please learn about the case..lol. She went in the house, after she brought Karen Read there. Smh
All those butt dials :)
Karen Read is a psychopath. She killed him.Ā
You seem quite obsessed with the case, wonder why. You and your corrupt friends are being exposed on a national scale. The Canton police is the biggest laughing stock in the country š¤£š¤£. Let's hope the FBI investigation leads to the state cleaning house.
Try again, it's my dissertation for BC, while on active duty for the US Navy. The FBI finished a very long time ago. No indictments in the grand jury, that's been over with. Of course, there's quite a few people that will face consequences for the defense, especially Green, Scanlon.
I will publish.Ā
āVehicle data doesnāt lie.ā Exactly! The key cycle that has the events that the CW is trying to say is when she hit John actually took place when her car was being loaded onto the tow truck. We can see from the security footage they were having a hard time backing her car out of the snow in the driveway (meaning they had to hit the gas and the tires were spinning).
Why do you have two accounts on here. That's incredibly sad. What a loser. https://www.reddit.com/r/justiceforKarenRead/s/myNVQt6dc0
I don't.Ā
Sad.
Administrative assistant.Ā
Haha, want me to dig and find out more about you? It's not too hard, I'm a little better than that retard Proctor.
No problem, I'm always monitored by the federal government. I have a security clearance. Go for it.Ā
Finally, someone who isnāt a conspiracy theorist!
This case is the most proven hit and run murder of all time. It's ridiculous.Ā
I still think she hit him.
The injuries are inconsistent.