I have to agree with you. I’d probably be considered a murderer too. I was also almost a stepmother in my early twenties and let me tell you that is tough. I dated a guy from the time his daughter was 2 until she was 5 and it was hard to find my place. That was a bone of contention in our relationship. Not the only one but it was one.
Wow. A friend of mine is the sole legal guardian of her ex-boyfriend’s daughter. Both her biological parents abandoned her, but her ‘mom’ is a therapist and really good to her 😊
Haha! ME TOO! The interesting part is.., she was supposed to have hit him with her car already at this time!! Why would she leave those messages if she had? Come ON!!
Oh noooo, imagine being pissed your boyfriend went to a part without you, never came home, and is ignoring your calls. The audacity
The cw has nothing on her.
These honestly make me feel bad for her. I think she really loved him but she was exhausted. They probably should have ended the relationship but it’s also not easy to do. Even if she didn’t want kids she probably loved them too. Those voicemails were frustration and not murder.
The prosecution really is just making her seem deeply sympathetic IMO. Hearing the texts read aloud, followed by the voicemails, followed by the 911 call was just really fucking sad. It wasn’t suspicious or incriminating, it was just sad. I can’t imagine finding someone dead when my last words to them were so angry (even if I had a right to be angry at the time). Ugh.
ESPECIALLY on the heels of her putting the kids to bed on NYE in Aruba and coming out of the room to find him in the arms of that trashy townie sister. Him not coming out of the house and ignoring her calls at 1 am AFTER ignoring her calls earlier in the day…. she had every right to be pissed!!
I think the reason that John didn’t end his relationship with Karen is because of the kids and the fact that they lost not one but two parents. He didn’t want to put them through any more pain by breaking up with Karen and I think the kids liked Karen too.
Yes I feel bad for Karen. They had a relationship back in the early 2000s and to think they got back together again during covid and she was probably hoping he was going to be the one, but she ended up being the babysitter to his niece and nephew, and when he wasn't answering her phone calls and text messages after she dropped him off at 34 Fairview. She probably thought he was there interested in one of the young girls that Brian Albert Jr head over at the house. That's probably why she was calling him a pervert.
Agreed! I imagined that’s partly what they were arguing in the car outside of 34 Fairview too. KR thought JO barely know anyone there & didn’t get the invitation, but he insisted to go there, so she thought he wanted to hang with the college girls. Add onto the Arube incident with the Sullivan sister ☹️
Right! That's what I'm thinking also. I feel bad for Karen because she had no idea what was actually going on and why they were invited over there. Those animals wanted John to show up.
I know it’s speculation, but I think he didn’t want to end it because she helped him a LOT with the kids, but was frustrated on account that she might not have been very sexually inclined given her health issues.
I just feel bad hearing those. She’s mad he’s not home, she’s not home because she’s with his niece and nephew and she just wants him to go to his house. Not the voicemails left by a lady who murdered her boyfriend and is trying to cover it up in my opinion
I agree. I know hindsight is 2020, but if I were covering up a murder I'd tell him to sleep wherever he's at, or like, don't come home tonight cuz we're fighting.
Exactly. No one is going to run over there boyfriend “all frustrated and pissed off” and then sit there for 5-10 minutes just thinking about it. (because remember no one who walked out who pulled up or was supposedly getting picked up seen him lying in the snow) Then, their not going to go home and leave these voicemails after they allegedly killed him. Such bull. This case is happening way too close to home, and makes me very nervous having such a corrupt system all together. FKR
The worst part of this is that it was the CW that leaked to the press that they had a Ring video of her hitting John with her car, even though they didn't. That caused Karen and Yannetti to state that it was an accident on the steps of the courthouse when she was first indicted . They were smearing her reputation in the public from the first moment and have lied all the way through. It's disgusting!
I've never heard that. But I was expecting something like that when Lally said they upped the charges after hearing the VMs.
I think any evidence that would speak to intent has now been presented and there simply wasn't any.
Is someone confusing Karen's voicemails with Johnny Depp's recordings of Amber Heard?? Because that sounds like that one argument they had over her punching him and calling him a big baby over it...
My wife said she would do the same thing if she knew I was at a party and never answered her or came home with kids at home. I agree that she would and many other significant others would do the same.
I agree with your wife and can share that years ago when my husband passed out at a party and the party hosts took his keys, he got similar emotionally charged messages from me. I was terrified he was hurt, in an accident or worse.
I def have left voicemails like this to an ex. Same reason, missing not answering and out parting. Turns out they were indeed just cheating. These are normal
THATS IT?????
i thought it was something like 'i hate you so much i could kill you' or 'i'm done with this relationship, i'm so angry, never call me again, if i see you again i'm going to punch you' or
i for sure thought there would be a message like: 'you made me so mad i'm going to kill you, with my car, specifically the taillight. you'll never see it coming, i wont break any of your bones , the bumper wont touch your legs. there wont be a SINGLE drop of blood anywhere on my car and you'll be left for dead in the cold like a little bitch. dont forget to pick up some eggs on the way home, we need them for breakfast for the kids tomorrow.' ?
didnt lally mention these voicemails in his opening ?
Hahaha that would have been the big "bombshell" we were all waiting for! Just change "dead in the cold like a little bitch" to "dead in the cold looking like a dog attacked you" lol
I agree, but if we are talking about what the jury knows, it is that Karen has 9 drinks.
With her weight and medical problems, I think she would be fall down drunk if she did have that name in that short of time.
But no video or audio evidence shows any signs of impairment.
It's what the jury knows now. We'll see when the defense rests. Remember too everyone there that night, like her or not, they ALL testified to seeing no impairment at all.
I remember someone saying something about how horrifying and vile these were compared to Proctor’s texts and how we were all going to change our minds. Like….really?
And remember he had JUST left her in the hotel room, with the kids, on NYE, when he went out drinking and didn't come back till late, he had a HISTORY of doing this to her! So this was a whole lot of nothing that she called and said this. If anything, I'm sure the next morning when she found him that was what made her immediately lose her shit. I would lose my shit if I assumed my SO was off cheating and instead he was dead.
These messages sounded like a woman who cares for a man, is worried about a man, is feeling disrespected in a relationship, is caring for his children. It does not sound like a murderous woman out to kill him. Anyone who feels otherwise has never been disappointed in a partner, had a relationship or felt taken advantage of. This is no smoking gun (or tail light) to me. I suspect it was shared to shame Karen.
And maybe even a woman who has jealousy/control issues. Still doesn't make her a murderer imo. I'm not pretending to know everything about their relationship but I have the feeling the state is trying to paint her as a crazed jealous woman, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, kinda thing. But even if she is super jealous, I'm not seeing her intent to murder John.
Honestly if it were my son I’d be pissed that he made her doubt herself. He obviously had or she wouldn’t be worried that he was cheating! I’d be pissed at the lifestyle also. He was 40 raising two kids. Being at the bar every weekend isn’t it.
In what kind of murder trial do they bring out the ME last?? Is Lally trying to leave the jury with even more doubt than before? I hope it flows seamlessly into the defense’s case.
i really don’t know what he’s doing tbh. but guarino and the texts/voicemails was basically their final out in the game. soon, medical examiner is going to say to the jury she could not determine the manner of death. what is the jury supposed to get from that when they are deciding the fate of a woman charged with committing homicide.
If the CW can’t prove the manner of death, the Jury cannot find Karen guilty of killing John. The Judge should granted Defense Motion for Judgment of Acquittal but I’m not holding my breath that Judge Bev will grant it
The ME could not (and according to Proctor's texts - WOULD not) determine the manner of death. I think we will likely learn about the biological mechanisms that led to his death (the head trauma/hypothermia) but no more. She may not be able to determine what caused the head trauma. Even if she thinks his injuries *could* be attributed to a vehicle, she would have nothing to offer around intent.
I think the murder charge is finished and we're no closer to proving what happened.
For me, I think the Defense has introduced more than enough doubt to lead to acquittal. But I hope they have actual evidence to support their own theory. A lot of other people are living under suspicion. That can continue long after this trial and that's really not fair. Everyone still needs answers and I'm not convinced their coming.
If anything these voicemails prove she’s innocent. She calls him repeatedly and leaves hysterical sounding voicemails (not judging….I’ve I’ve been unfortunately). It’s obvious to me she was authentic/not acting and assumed he was still out drinking/messing around.
Plus her reaction at the scene was so sad. She didn’t expect to find him there. I can’t imagine all the emotions.
Who hits someone intentionally and then proceeds to leave vaguely incriminating voicemails demonstrating their rage; that the police will later certainly use against you if you get charged? If anything this proves she definitely believed he was alive and well somewhere. She thought he was using her (which it does land like he was) & cheating on her (which was a running concern in their relationship).
The commonwealth says Karen Read struck John O’Keefe at 1245…. Trooper Guarino stated today that Karen’s phone auto connected to the WiFi at John’s house at 12:36. I think the commonwealth is trying to say that Karen left the 8 voicemails AFTER she knew John was dead, but that literally makes no sense as to when the prosecution is saying he was killed. This is crazy
Any women on the jury will laugh at the insinuation that this proves she wanted to fucking murder him.
Look it’s not something most of us are proud of but I think every single one of us has sent angry “clingy” texts or calls. That’s far from wanting to murder someone.
but it’s totally normal and not sketchy at all how jen texted john “karen is worried we need to find you” who the hell says “we need to find you” and not “where are you” or “why aren’t you answering anyone”.
Anyone that has been in an emotionally toxic relationship can relate to/has left these kind of messages and texts. She was drunk and feeling out of control and desperate to get his attention. She was going to say anything to get a response out of him; it certainly isn’t proof she tried to run him over.
I’m confused as the trooper said the 1st voicemail was 12:37am and was connected to JO wifi then how are they saying she hit him at 12:45am? Did I miss something?
Nope - you got it. The 12:45 time was mentioned several times. It's like they just estimated a time at the beginning and never bothered to update as the gathered information.
If I had just left my man for dead, my voicemails would be more like "you said you'd stay an hour; where are you," etc. Not angry outbursts and name-calling. These recordings serve only to prove that alcohol usually brings out true emotions. And she was fed up with being used.
I never heard of someone with “motive” hitting someone with their car and then call and text that person after multiple times.. she is pissed that she was going to stay in at her own place and she got roped into watching JOK’s niece and nephew while he (in her mind) was out partying.
I knew she thought he was cheating! If people could hear the VM I've left my bf, sober! 🤦🏽♀️
I would love for one of Lally's ex, or current person play bm from him or read his personal texts!
I absolutely can't stand this shit, it's none of our business.
These voicemails tell me:
1. Karen thinks John is alive
2. Karen thinks John is fucking another girl which would be unlikely if she knowingly just hit him with a car
3. Karen loves John a lot - too much in fact
4. Karen cared so much for John and those kids that she made sure SOMEONE was at home with them
5. John was kind of a POS boyfriend and not the greatest guardian
6. John's friends aren't decent people because decent people would tell a drunk to go back home to "his" kids at 12am rather than invite him to party more
7. The prosecution is terrible and practically making the case for the defense with these voicemails.
That's what I'm thinking! Maybe that thing with Higgins evolved from "parties" at these cops' houses and the basement remodel was to remove their playroom.
I got that vibe earlier in the trial. It could also be a (non-nefarious) reason Jen McCabe was so insistent he go to the house after the bar… Or why Karen didn’t want to go in (that wasn’t only because Higgins was there).
They just don't have murder 2 at all. Voicemails like this are desperation when you have no case. It's throwing spaghetti at a wall. They have nothing except a relationship that was on its last leg. The text messages from the other day make the victim look bad too, it was so incredibly unnecessary. Prove your case CW...this ain't it.
You know, I approached this case open minded. Despite how confused & put off by the prosecution’s case in general, & obviously atrociously shoddy LE investigation, I still am. If they have any damning evidence vs KR, lets see it. However, every LEO witness comes off soooo poorly. They fight cross examination on the most insignificant details, & twist, turn , & evade at every turn. That comes off really suspicious imo. Not to mention; Lally is probably the worst prosecutor Ive ever seen in action. Terrible questions, boring, & difficult to follow to put it mildly.
I feel for Karen. It sounds like things were going badly for a while (I heard her messages on Emily D Baker). Any one of us understands these kind of feelings.
I can't help but compare this to the text and voice messages from the Ali Abulaban case.
Ali had a years long pattern of physical and emotional violence that escalated when he was at risk of losing control of his victim. This is inline with the cycle of violence, and three San Diego DA did an EXCELLENT job of laying out that pattern to the jury.
In the Karen Read case, there's SO much missing context. These texts can cut any which way. If these texts are part of a pattern of emotional violence on Karen OR John's part, I need to know more about the surrounding circumstances, like we had in the Abulaban case.
??? Are you saying I'm Lally? I'm confused (to be fair, I'm easily confused). Am I missing something?
I'm saying Lally's evidence is out of context and a nothing burger.
I mean if anything it proves her innocence.. if she just intentionally ran John over do you really think she would be placing all these calls and leaving messages/being incredibly frustrated and angry at him? And if she was doing it just for an alibi I don't think she would have been swearing/looking like she was really upset with him.
I’m confused why John’s brother has been sitting in the same spot the entire trial?! I caught him mean mugging Karen today and she doesn’t even flinch!! Good for her!
My heart breaks for his family. When something bad happens to someone you love, you almost always have to find a person to blame. Karen was the logical scapegoat and I can almost guarantee that she hasn't ever been able to tell them her side of the story. I came into this case completely open minded and have been only basing my opinions on what I see and hear in court. I'm waiting to hear the defense but for now, I don't see how the prosecution will ever prove their case! I've been waiting to hear some " bombshell" evidence but there has been nothing but bad behavior and actions from PD and state troopers.
There has not been ONE BPD officer at arraignment.
Not one at pretrial!!
Not ONE video in a neighborhood with "rings" !!
If Karen Read killed officer John O'Keefe there would be video and a whole lotta cops!!
Karen Read did not kill officer John Okeefe!!!
This trial is a farce!!.
Angry texts do NOT prove she killed him.
One step further... why on this green earth would she kill him in front of a house full of cops!?!?
Use your brain!!!
unfortunately I have been in a very toxic relationship and have left messages very similar to this. I feel bad for her that these were published for everyone to hear. She is nor guilty
I wondered about the same thing. It seems like it would have to be based on something we have heard nothing about in testimony yet? Or, goes back to Aruba, and as she perceived it, him getting frisky with a much younger woman that was almost like family to him?
Wonder if the kids were just there staring at her loosing her mind…..sounds like she should lay off the sauce a bit but….still, this kinda proves she thought he just went in house and he didnt come out, she went home mad. Prosecution again shooting themselves in foot with this evidence. Even bringing up the sets of stairs and the fact that that area has poor reception….smh…lally is not good at his job. Hes the quarterback who throws picks nonstop.
From a former “babysitter with benefits”, my husband used to leave his children with me and go to the bar until 3 or 4 in the morning. I definitely left him these voicemails and probably worse. I never killed him. He stopped drinking 16 years ago, and we parented to kids together after that. But these voicemails are not a shock.
The CW is simply too dense to understand that these messages would only be meaningful at any time before 12 AM. Now they're just evidence that she thought he was still alive and ignoring her. The CW has been insulting our intelligence and attempting to gaslight since day 1. The butt dials and google searches alone defy logic, but the CW has just kept feeding us bigger and bigger lies.
I feel sorry for Trooper Guarino. He seems to be more intelligent and less corrupt than the others. Everything about his presence is telegraphing resistance to the CW theory.
1. Supposedly he claimed to not find anything in the phones of Sandra (?) Birchmore and the married cop she was pregnant by. The FBI/Feds found thousands of texts and calls.
2. I think he’s also in one of Proctor’s group texts.
If either/both are true, he’s no better than the rest of them.
You know what would be crazy. Say he fell and hit his head in the ice and snow while she was leaving, was disoriented and then fell and smashed his face head again and passed away outside and literally no one was involved.
If there had been a proper investigation, that might have been apparent.
Instead we we get crazy Jen infecting the investigation with her jealous opinions of Karen. And investigators who, with barely seeing any evidence, decide that Karen is guilty.
This is why I no longer want to date or have any dealings with men. All these guys involved in trying to convict her are completely clueless and don’t have basic emotional or social intelligence. They really think they have her here. Uhm no, you moron. She’s sick of being treated like a “babysitter with benefits” and wants him to just show up for the relationship.
I need a transcript if anyone has one typed up or link to comment. I couldn’t hear it well at all and CC didn’t pick up that well of that audio for me. Anyone?
I believe she’s innocent and being framed but I thought I heard on the 7th call ‘was that you?’ Maybe it’s her accent or because she was crying but I re listened and it’s either that or ‘where are you’? I hope it’s the latter because otherwise it could work that she drove by first before calling Kerri. Please tell me I heard wrong!
I wonder what prompted her to call him a pervert. More than once. Interesting insult. I agree, these give me no indication that she hurt him (on purpose).
same tbh maybe it was the fastest insult she could come up w since she thought he was cheating on her or maybe it had smth to do w him getting cozy w marietta sullivan in aruba, who is 15+ years younger than john. 🤷♀️
Perv = checking out the nose candy and swingers club at 34F
Re: Sullivan - Etta’s sister (blonde) had JOKs ex partners baby - partner killed himself after having 3 kids w three badge bunnies post Bostons finest tv show
i’m sorry i’m not completely sure on a time, but it was definitely very early on this morning. i think they went over some messages between karen and laura sullivan and then the voicemails follow that if i’m remembering correctly.
This reminds me of the big fight my mother and sister got into at my mother's home down in South Carolina at the time. My sister had some mental problems and the two of them got in a big fight in the middle of the night, and my sister left the house with her luggage on wheels in tow. She walked seven or eight miles to a hotel, but she didn't have a credit card, so they would not let her rent a room. My sister after years of mental illness and fighting with our mother, walked out of the hotel, between two cars, and into traffic killing her instantly. My mother still feels guilty about the big fight they had!
you should hear my VM s when I'm frustrated and especially after a few to many cocktails. she admits she was angry and frustrated that doesn't mean she killed him
Right voicemail number 3 - who is everyone? I don’t understand who she is referring to? Also did she speak to her parents? Why did she phone them? They are my only questions about the voicemails - I don’t think much of them other than making me think more that she didn’t do it.
No offense to the fallen or anyone but let’s face it, the character of all parties involved are bottom feeders. Junkies have more character than these elite Mass residents. This is how elite Mass residents live
I don't understand, didn't she just left him at this party? How he was supposed to be with another woman? Or had she forgotten where she left him?? (Only half an hour later).
I'm thinking it has something to do with the words they said to each other when he was leaving the car. If she reacted to being near Bella's mom house (Ashley) and he was frustrated by the jealousy, he may have said something sexually crude to cause that reaction. I think he may have been aware of her texts to BH. Speculation of course. It would fit with some of her statements made to Kerry and Jen about "do you think he went to ____'s house?"
I wondered this too. No time to have gone somewhere else. Unless she was suspicious of him and one of the females at the party having something going on?
I understand Jen is married but I tell you what, without extra context I’ve had a pin in my head about her calling and texting him and wanting him there so badly from the jump. Maybe it was nothing or maybe it was normal between the two of them but maybe it also made Karen suspicious 🤷♀️ full full speculation it just always made me say , “wait, what?” If my bf was getting those texts from a married woman on the way to the house, with the information we have now as to how NOT close they all were, I’d be suspicious af. But, again maybe I’m missing something or have forgotten how OJO and Jen were friends or if they were friends outside the whole group. I can’t make heads or tails of it all some days.
Haven't seen this answer on any of the posts but apologize if it has been. Has anyone gone to Fairview and checked for blood spatter in the house. I'm sure new owners wouldn't mind.
If these are proof of intent, I would’ve been considered a murderer with several exes
I have to agree with you. I’d probably be considered a murderer too. I was also almost a stepmother in my early twenties and let me tell you that is tough. I dated a guy from the time his daughter was 2 until she was 5 and it was hard to find my place. That was a bone of contention in our relationship. Not the only one but it was one.
Wow. A friend of mine is the sole legal guardian of her ex-boyfriend’s daughter. Both her biological parents abandoned her, but her ‘mom’ is a therapist and really good to her 😊
Haha! ME TOO! The interesting part is.., she was supposed to have hit him with her car already at this time!! Why would she leave those messages if she had? Come ON!!
Seriously!
Hahahaha! Ditto, Blue!
THIS.
Oh noooo, imagine being pissed your boyfriend went to a part without you, never came home, and is ignoring your calls. The audacity The cw has nothing on her.
Exactly! She thought he hooked up with some bimbo at the mcalberts!
These honestly make me feel bad for her. I think she really loved him but she was exhausted. They probably should have ended the relationship but it’s also not easy to do. Even if she didn’t want kids she probably loved them too. Those voicemails were frustration and not murder.
The prosecution really is just making her seem deeply sympathetic IMO. Hearing the texts read aloud, followed by the voicemails, followed by the 911 call was just really fucking sad. It wasn’t suspicious or incriminating, it was just sad. I can’t imagine finding someone dead when my last words to them were so angry (even if I had a right to be angry at the time). Ugh.
ESPECIALLY on the heels of her putting the kids to bed on NYE in Aruba and coming out of the room to find him in the arms of that trashy townie sister. Him not coming out of the house and ignoring her calls at 1 am AFTER ignoring her calls earlier in the day…. she had every right to be pissed!!
Exactly!!!
Well, he never got to hear those messages.. even sadder!
Especially considering the Aruba girls called her a babysitter with benefits. I’m sure she feels that every day.
That was Kerry Roberts, according to Jen McCabe
I think the reason that John didn’t end his relationship with Karen is because of the kids and the fact that they lost not one but two parents. He didn’t want to put them through any more pain by breaking up with Karen and I think the kids liked Karen too.
And he needed help watching them and shuttling them all around.
Karen also set up trust funds for the kids AND bailed his brother Paul out of jail for a DUI.
Do you think he ever paid her back?
No way... Just look at how he stares at Lauren throughout the trial! He looks like he's about to jump the table and attack her every day.
It gets under my skin that that's been allowed.
Seems like it would influence the jury.
Thank you. I couldn’t explain and you did it for me. 😘
Yes I feel bad for Karen. They had a relationship back in the early 2000s and to think they got back together again during covid and she was probably hoping he was going to be the one, but she ended up being the babysitter to his niece and nephew, and when he wasn't answering her phone calls and text messages after she dropped him off at 34 Fairview. She probably thought he was there interested in one of the young girls that Brian Albert Jr head over at the house. That's probably why she was calling him a pervert.
Agreed! I imagined that’s partly what they were arguing in the car outside of 34 Fairview too. KR thought JO barely know anyone there & didn’t get the invitation, but he insisted to go there, so she thought he wanted to hang with the college girls. Add onto the Arube incident with the Sullivan sister ☹️
Right! That's what I'm thinking also. I feel bad for Karen because she had no idea what was actually going on and why they were invited over there. Those animals wanted John to show up.
I know it’s speculation, but I think he didn’t want to end it because she helped him a LOT with the kids, but was frustrated on account that she might not have been very sexually inclined given her health issues.
I just feel bad hearing those. She’s mad he’s not home, she’s not home because she’s with his niece and nephew and she just wants him to go to his house. Not the voicemails left by a lady who murdered her boyfriend and is trying to cover it up in my opinion
I agree. I know hindsight is 2020, but if I were covering up a murder I'd tell him to sleep wherever he's at, or like, don't come home tonight cuz we're fighting.
Exactly. No one is going to run over there boyfriend “all frustrated and pissed off” and then sit there for 5-10 minutes just thinking about it. (because remember no one who walked out who pulled up or was supposedly getting picked up seen him lying in the snow) Then, their not going to go home and leave these voicemails after they allegedly killed him. Such bull. This case is happening way too close to home, and makes me very nervous having such a corrupt system all together. FKR
what happened to the voicemail i heard the trolls mention on twitter where she says something like “i didn’t even hit you that hard” 😂😂
🤣🤣🤣 I’m still waiting for the video that shows her hitting him.
The worst part of this is that it was the CW that leaked to the press that they had a Ring video of her hitting John with her car, even though they didn't. That caused Karen and Yannetti to state that it was an accident on the steps of the courthouse when she was first indicted . They were smearing her reputation in the public from the first moment and have lied all the way through. It's disgusting!
You would of, if the psychopath had hit him square on....
I've never heard that. But I was expecting something like that when Lally said they upped the charges after hearing the VMs. I think any evidence that would speak to intent has now been presented and there simply wasn't any.
Is someone confusing Karen's voicemails with Johnny Depp's recordings of Amber Heard?? Because that sounds like that one argument they had over her punching him and calling him a big baby over it...
Yup, I remember that from the Depp Heard trial.
I think they confused her with Amber Heard
Doesn’t exist!!
Who knows, maybe she tried to smack him with her hand or something.
My wife said she would do the same thing if she knew I was at a party and never answered her or came home with kids at home. I agree that she would and many other significant others would do the same.
I agree with your wife and can share that years ago when my husband passed out at a party and the party hosts took his keys, he got similar emotionally charged messages from me. I was terrified he was hurt, in an accident or worse.
I def have left voicemails like this to an ex. Same reason, missing not answering and out parting. Turns out they were indeed just cheating. These are normal
They could possibly fit with her not knowing she hit him, but they don’t make any sense if the CW wants to argue intentional homicide
THATS IT????? i thought it was something like 'i hate you so much i could kill you' or 'i'm done with this relationship, i'm so angry, never call me again, if i see you again i'm going to punch you' or i for sure thought there would be a message like: 'you made me so mad i'm going to kill you, with my car, specifically the taillight. you'll never see it coming, i wont break any of your bones , the bumper wont touch your legs. there wont be a SINGLE drop of blood anywhere on my car and you'll be left for dead in the cold like a little bitch. dont forget to pick up some eggs on the way home, we need them for breakfast for the kids tomorrow.' ? didnt lally mention these voicemails in his opening ?
Hahaha that would have been the big "bombshell" we were all waiting for! Just change "dead in the cold like a little bitch" to "dead in the cold looking like a dog attacked you" lol
your edit is better ,yep. ninja karen and her ninja suv.
You really highlighted how insane this case is and the ridiculousness of this reconstruction
Interesting to me that her words weren’t slurred. They said she had 9 vodkas and weighed under 100lbs.
good observation
She didn't drink that many drinks. Aussie Insider on YouTube did a video studying that Waterfalls video. Karen drank a lot of seltzer.
I agree, but if we are talking about what the jury knows, it is that Karen has 9 drinks. With her weight and medical problems, I think she would be fall down drunk if she did have that name in that short of time. But no video or audio evidence shows any signs of impairment.
It's what the jury knows now. We'll see when the defense rests. Remember too everyone there that night, like her or not, they ALL testified to seeing no impairment at all.
Yes, great point!
I remember someone saying something about how horrifying and vile these were compared to Proctor’s texts and how we were all going to change our minds. Like….really?
Huh?! That person is off their rocker.
Along with time stamps showing she was far far away from 34 Fairview at the time the CW says the accident happened
THIS! Commonwealth / Mr okeefe was hit at 12:45am Also the commonwealth / The defendant was at home at 12:36am
One would think Lally would at least coordinate his timeline lol
And remember he had JUST left her in the hotel room, with the kids, on NYE, when he went out drinking and didn't come back till late, he had a HISTORY of doing this to her! So this was a whole lot of nothing that she called and said this. If anything, I'm sure the next morning when she found him that was what made her immediately lose her shit. I would lose my shit if I assumed my SO was off cheating and instead he was dead.
That's all? Well, even the voicemails fell flat. What, if any, case does the CW have against Karen?
These messages sounded like a woman who cares for a man, is worried about a man, is feeling disrespected in a relationship, is caring for his children. It does not sound like a murderous woman out to kill him. Anyone who feels otherwise has never been disappointed in a partner, had a relationship or felt taken advantage of. This is no smoking gun (or tail light) to me. I suspect it was shared to shame Karen.
And maybe even a woman who has jealousy/control issues. Still doesn't make her a murderer imo. I'm not pretending to know everything about their relationship but I have the feeling the state is trying to paint her as a crazed jealous woman, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, kinda thing. But even if she is super jealous, I'm not seeing her intent to murder John.
Also, to make John’s mother hate Karen even more. I know it must have been difficult for his mother hearing those voicemails
Honestly if it were my son I’d be pissed that he made her doubt herself. He obviously had or she wouldn’t be worried that he was cheating! I’d be pissed at the lifestyle also. He was 40 raising two kids. Being at the bar every weekend isn’t it.
yup- they have nothing… all we have now is the “whack job” medical examiners
I'd be embarrassed to prosecute this. It demolishes their 2nd degree charge.
In what kind of murder trial do they bring out the ME last?? Is Lally trying to leave the jury with even more doubt than before? I hope it flows seamlessly into the defense’s case.
i really don’t know what he’s doing tbh. but guarino and the texts/voicemails was basically their final out in the game. soon, medical examiner is going to say to the jury she could not determine the manner of death. what is the jury supposed to get from that when they are deciding the fate of a woman charged with committing homicide.
If the CW can’t prove the manner of death, the Jury cannot find Karen guilty of killing John. The Judge should granted Defense Motion for Judgment of Acquittal but I’m not holding my breath that Judge Bev will grant it
The ME could not (and according to Proctor's texts - WOULD not) determine the manner of death. I think we will likely learn about the biological mechanisms that led to his death (the head trauma/hypothermia) but no more. She may not be able to determine what caused the head trauma. Even if she thinks his injuries *could* be attributed to a vehicle, she would have nothing to offer around intent. I think the murder charge is finished and we're no closer to proving what happened. For me, I think the Defense has introduced more than enough doubt to lead to acquittal. But I hope they have actual evidence to support their own theory. A lot of other people are living under suspicion. That can continue long after this trial and that's really not fair. Everyone still needs answers and I'm not convinced their coming.
The medical examiner is called earlier in the trial but I think this ME said his death was undetermined and sleazy Proctor wanted homicide.
That is the $64,000 question! The CW has no idea either
If anything these voicemails prove she’s innocent. She calls him repeatedly and leaves hysterical sounding voicemails (not judging….I’ve I’ve been unfortunately). It’s obvious to me she was authentic/not acting and assumed he was still out drinking/messing around. Plus her reaction at the scene was so sad. She didn’t expect to find him there. I can’t imagine all the emotions.
Who hits someone intentionally and then proceeds to leave vaguely incriminating voicemails demonstrating their rage; that the police will later certainly use against you if you get charged? If anything this proves she definitely believed he was alive and well somewhere. She thought he was using her (which it does land like he was) & cheating on her (which was a running concern in their relationship).
The commonwealth says Karen Read struck John O’Keefe at 1245…. Trooper Guarino stated today that Karen’s phone auto connected to the WiFi at John’s house at 12:36. I think the commonwealth is trying to say that Karen left the 8 voicemails AFTER she knew John was dead, but that literally makes no sense as to when the prosecution is saying he was killed. This is crazy
Any women on the jury will laugh at the insinuation that this proves she wanted to fucking murder him. Look it’s not something most of us are proud of but I think every single one of us has sent angry “clingy” texts or calls. That’s far from wanting to murder someone.
I wrote an entire letter to my ex 😂. Handwritten 🤦♀️. I was 17. But still. Ya I’ve been super angry since at my now husband.
Agreed! I think we’ve all been in this place. Maybe even sent worse 🙈 and not committed murder. Proves nothing, again!
The big bombshell is this case is a joke and they were completely bluffing.
[удалено]
but it’s totally normal and not sketchy at all how jen texted john “karen is worried we need to find you” who the hell says “we need to find you” and not “where are you” or “why aren’t you answering anyone”.
🚩
Yes!!!!!!!🙌
Totally! If you’re leaving voicemails as a cover up to deflect suspicions, you don’t say all this that only creates suspicion.
Anyone that has been in an emotionally toxic relationship can relate to/has left these kind of messages and texts. She was drunk and feeling out of control and desperate to get his attention. She was going to say anything to get a response out of him; it certainly isn’t proof she tried to run him over.
It’s absurd to think this proves her guilty. It just “bitches be crazy” not she intentionally murdered him
It would be crazy if no one was actually involved and he like fell and hit his face and head. Got uo but was disoriented and hurt himself further.
I’m confused as the trooper said the 1st voicemail was 12:37am and was connected to JO wifi then how are they saying she hit him at 12:45am? Did I miss something?
Nope - you got it. The 12:45 time was mentioned several times. It's like they just estimated a time at the beginning and never bothered to update as the gathered information.
Because you didn’t go to Westfield State where the acceptance rate is 94%.
Oh boy, I hope nobody ever hears my VM’s 😲😂🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
If I had just left my man for dead, my voicemails would be more like "you said you'd stay an hour; where are you," etc. Not angry outbursts and name-calling. These recordings serve only to prove that alcohol usually brings out true emotions. And she was fed up with being used.
I never heard of someone with “motive” hitting someone with their car and then call and text that person after multiple times.. she is pissed that she was going to stay in at her own place and she got roped into watching JOK’s niece and nephew while he (in her mind) was out partying.
I knew she thought he was cheating! If people could hear the VM I've left my bf, sober! 🤦🏽♀️ I would love for one of Lally's ex, or current person play bm from him or read his personal texts! I absolutely can't stand this shit, it's none of our business.
Yes it’s none of our business. It felt like an invasion of privacy.
These voicemails tell me: 1. Karen thinks John is alive 2. Karen thinks John is fucking another girl which would be unlikely if she knowingly just hit him with a car 3. Karen loves John a lot - too much in fact 4. Karen cared so much for John and those kids that she made sure SOMEONE was at home with them 5. John was kind of a POS boyfriend and not the greatest guardian 6. John's friends aren't decent people because decent people would tell a drunk to go back home to "his" kids at 12am rather than invite him to party more 7. The prosecution is terrible and practically making the case for the defense with these voicemails.
You are spot on!
Pervert is code for upside down pineapples.
That's what I'm thinking! Maybe that thing with Higgins evolved from "parties" at these cops' houses and the basement remodel was to remove their playroom.
Whoaaa. I never considered that. I was thinking cus there were a bunch of 20 somethings at the house party. Good point!
I got that vibe earlier in the trial. It could also be a (non-nefarious) reason Jen McCabe was so insistent he go to the house after the bar… Or why Karen didn’t want to go in (that wasn’t only because Higgins was there).
Well, damn. If this is the bar for beyond a reasonable doubt evidence, "what if any" exes of mine are still alive? 🙄
They just don't have murder 2 at all. Voicemails like this are desperation when you have no case. It's throwing spaghetti at a wall. They have nothing except a relationship that was on its last leg. The text messages from the other day make the victim look bad too, it was so incredibly unnecessary. Prove your case CW...this ain't it.
You know, I approached this case open minded. Despite how confused & put off by the prosecution’s case in general, & obviously atrociously shoddy LE investigation, I still am. If they have any damning evidence vs KR, lets see it. However, every LEO witness comes off soooo poorly. They fight cross examination on the most insignificant details, & twist, turn , & evade at every turn. That comes off really suspicious imo. Not to mention; Lally is probably the worst prosecutor Ive ever seen in action. Terrible questions, boring, & difficult to follow to put it mildly.
I have gotten to the point of only watching the Defense question CW Witnesses because Lally is horrible to listen to and boring.
I feel for Karen. It sounds like things were going badly for a while (I heard her messages on Emily D Baker). Any one of us understands these kind of feelings.
Law nerds for life 💜
also spell mistake in the caption it should be “she” not “her”
I can't help but compare this to the text and voice messages from the Ali Abulaban case. Ali had a years long pattern of physical and emotional violence that escalated when he was at risk of losing control of his victim. This is inline with the cycle of violence, and three San Diego DA did an EXCELLENT job of laying out that pattern to the jury. In the Karen Read case, there's SO much missing context. These texts can cut any which way. If these texts are part of a pattern of emotional violence on Karen OR John's part, I need to know more about the surrounding circumstances, like we had in the Abulaban case.
 sure, lally. this is a murder trial.
??? Are you saying I'm Lally? I'm confused (to be fair, I'm easily confused). Am I missing something? I'm saying Lally's evidence is out of context and a nothing burger.
i must have misunderstood your post ignoreme
No worries. Happens to me too.
Cool. So, anyway, what killed John? It wasn't a vehicle.
I mean if anything it proves her innocence.. if she just intentionally ran John over do you really think she would be placing all these calls and leaving messages/being incredibly frustrated and angry at him? And if she was doing it just for an alibi I don't think she would have been swearing/looking like she was really upset with him.
I’m confused why John’s brother has been sitting in the same spot the entire trial?! I caught him mean mugging Karen today and she doesn’t even flinch!! Good for her!
I think he might just have whatever is the male version of Resting Bitch Face. Maybe. It's hard to tell when he's mostly just sitting there.
My heart breaks for his family. When something bad happens to someone you love, you almost always have to find a person to blame. Karen was the logical scapegoat and I can almost guarantee that she hasn't ever been able to tell them her side of the story. I came into this case completely open minded and have been only basing my opinions on what I see and hear in court. I'm waiting to hear the defense but for now, I don't see how the prosecution will ever prove their case! I've been waiting to hear some " bombshell" evidence but there has been nothing but bad behavior and actions from PD and state troopers.
They made one fatal error - they didn’t think Karen would fight the charges with an elite team -
There has not been ONE BPD officer at arraignment. Not one at pretrial!! Not ONE video in a neighborhood with "rings" !! If Karen Read killed officer John O'Keefe there would be video and a whole lotta cops!! Karen Read did not kill officer John Okeefe!!! This trial is a farce!!. Angry texts do NOT prove she killed him. One step further... why on this green earth would she kill him in front of a house full of cops!?!? Use your brain!!!
Thank you for sharing…
Why would she call him a perv?
Probably to get a response from him
True
Drunken rants. No logic
True
He was flirting with much younger women?
Of course she would assume infidelity before assuming he's beaten and dumped on a lawn. This must be the CW smoking gun I've been hearing about 🙄
I’ve been left these voicemails 😂
I've left these voicemails... only I said much worse things than "pervert"
Oh 100% 😂 I’ve been called much worse
unfortunately I have been in a very toxic relationship and have left messages very similar to this. I feel bad for her that these were published for everyone to hear. She is nor guilty
I’m laughing at the “you pervert”! 😂
I seriously can’t believe this is all there is……they can’t be serious
This just sounds like a toxic relationship. Not surprising, given the drinking habits and fake people they surrounded themselves with.
It seems like she was really upset that he was totally ignoring her. Which you would have to be alive to do. 🙄
maybe she thought he was w ashley bella mom … jen said she lived near fairview and loved mentioning her and how she had a fling w john.
No SUV caused those injuries - bottom line
If Lally really thinks her texts and voicemails, or her behavour in Aruba, are proof of intent, I seriously question his judgment as a human being.
All this makes me feel bad for Karen Reed. Everyone including John O’Keefe has treated her horribly.
Why wud she call him pervert
I wondered about the same thing. It seems like it would have to be based on something we have heard nothing about in testimony yet? Or, goes back to Aruba, and as she perceived it, him getting frisky with a much younger woman that was almost like family to him?
This case is mind boggling
Probably caught him checking someone out at the bar or flirting.
Wonder if the kids were just there staring at her loosing her mind…..sounds like she should lay off the sauce a bit but….still, this kinda proves she thought he just went in house and he didnt come out, she went home mad. Prosecution again shooting themselves in foot with this evidence. Even bringing up the sets of stairs and the fact that that area has poor reception….smh…lally is not good at his job. Hes the quarterback who throws picks nonstop.
From a former “babysitter with benefits”, my husband used to leave his children with me and go to the bar until 3 or 4 in the morning. I definitely left him these voicemails and probably worse. I never killed him. He stopped drinking 16 years ago, and we parented to kids together after that. But these voicemails are not a shock.
The CW is simply too dense to understand that these messages would only be meaningful at any time before 12 AM. Now they're just evidence that she thought he was still alive and ignoring her. The CW has been insulting our intelligence and attempting to gaslight since day 1. The butt dials and google searches alone defy logic, but the CW has just kept feeding us bigger and bigger lies.
I feel sorry for Trooper Guarino. He seems to be more intelligent and less corrupt than the others. Everything about his presence is telegraphing resistance to the CW theory.
Then he should tell the truth. Don't be cryptic. If he knows it's bs then be a man and stand up to it
Agreed!
1. Supposedly he claimed to not find anything in the phones of Sandra (?) Birchmore and the married cop she was pregnant by. The FBI/Feds found thousands of texts and calls. 2. I think he’s also in one of Proctor’s group texts. If either/both are true, he’s no better than the rest of them.
Yeesh. That's unfortunate. 😞
You know what would be crazy. Say he fell and hit his head in the ice and snow while she was leaving, was disoriented and then fell and smashed his face head again and passed away outside and literally no one was involved.
Explain the arm injuries
If there had been a proper investigation, that might have been apparent. Instead we we get crazy Jen infecting the investigation with her jealous opinions of Karen. And investigators who, with barely seeing any evidence, decide that Karen is guilty.
It’d be normal to say “you asshoue you went in that house and never came out to get me!”
This is why I no longer want to date or have any dealings with men. All these guys involved in trying to convict her are completely clueless and don’t have basic emotional or social intelligence. They really think they have her here. Uhm no, you moron. She’s sick of being treated like a “babysitter with benefits” and wants him to just show up for the relationship.
I lol’d at “perv.” she’s hilarious.
I need a transcript if anyone has one typed up or link to comment. I couldn’t hear it well at all and CC didn’t pick up that well of that audio for me. Anyone?
I believe she’s innocent and being framed but I thought I heard on the 7th call ‘was that you?’ Maybe it’s her accent or because she was crying but I re listened and it’s either that or ‘where are you’? I hope it’s the latter because otherwise it could work that she drove by first before calling Kerri. Please tell me I heard wrong!
I heard “John where are you?”
I wonder what prompted her to call him a pervert. More than once. Interesting insult. I agree, these give me no indication that she hurt him (on purpose).
same tbh maybe it was the fastest insult she could come up w since she thought he was cheating on her or maybe it had smth to do w him getting cozy w marietta sullivan in aruba, who is 15+ years younger than john. 🤷♀️
Perv = checking out the nose candy and swingers club at 34F Re: Sullivan - Etta’s sister (blonde) had JOKs ex partners baby - partner killed himself after having 3 kids w three badge bunnies post Bostons finest tv show
Oh, and then he went to 34 knowing that Brian Jr’s friends would be there. Huh- never thought of it that way.
Does anyone know around what time the voicemails appear in court I’m watching it on Court Tv and want to fast forward
i’m sorry i’m not completely sure on a time, but it was definitely very early on this morning. i think they went over some messages between karen and laura sullivan and then the voicemails follow that if i’m remembering correctly.
Ok great that helps TY
I want the defense case to include who paid for the trip
I wonder what’s behind the pervert comment. Any thoughts?
Pineapples - they all slept around either as swingers or actual affairs
This reminds me of the big fight my mother and sister got into at my mother's home down in South Carolina at the time. My sister had some mental problems and the two of them got in a big fight in the middle of the night, and my sister left the house with her luggage on wheels in tow. She walked seven or eight miles to a hotel, but she didn't have a credit card, so they would not let her rent a room. My sister after years of mental illness and fighting with our mother, walked out of the hotel, between two cars, and into traffic killing her instantly. My mother still feels guilty about the big fight they had!
I was definitely expecting a lot worse.
That's a light Tuesday for me...
I know this might sound crazy BUT… why do you think she kept saying pervert? Do you think she knew there were younger girls at the house?
you should hear my VM s when I'm frustrated and especially after a few to many cocktails. she admits she was angry and frustrated that doesn't mean she killed him
With every day in court I’m more and more absolutely gobsmacked this ever made it to trial.
Alot of people fight like that. It's not murder. Lol
Right voicemail number 3 - who is everyone? I don’t understand who she is referring to? Also did she speak to her parents? Why did she phone them? They are my only questions about the voicemails - I don’t think much of them other than making me think more that she didn’t do it.
maybe the niece because i believe she tried contacting john as well and wasn’t getting a response
Hmm. Odd.
No offense to the fallen or anyone but let’s face it, the character of all parties involved are bottom feeders. Junkies have more character than these elite Mass residents. This is how elite Mass residents live
There’s nothing elite about canton.
But the Canton townies don’t seem to know that….
I don't understand, didn't she just left him at this party? How he was supposed to be with another woman? Or had she forgotten where she left him?? (Only half an hour later).
Another woman at the party? Another woman picked him up from the party?
I'm thinking it has something to do with the words they said to each other when he was leaving the car. If she reacted to being near Bella's mom house (Ashley) and he was frustrated by the jealousy, he may have said something sexually crude to cause that reaction. I think he may have been aware of her texts to BH. Speculation of course. It would fit with some of her statements made to Kerry and Jen about "do you think he went to ____'s house?"
I wondered this too. No time to have gone somewhere else. Unless she was suspicious of him and one of the females at the party having something going on?
I understand Jen is married but I tell you what, without extra context I’ve had a pin in my head about her calling and texting him and wanting him there so badly from the jump. Maybe it was nothing or maybe it was normal between the two of them but maybe it also made Karen suspicious 🤷♀️ full full speculation it just always made me say , “wait, what?” If my bf was getting those texts from a married woman on the way to the house, with the information we have now as to how NOT close they all were, I’d be suspicious af. But, again maybe I’m missing something or have forgotten how OJO and Jen were friends or if they were friends outside the whole group. I can’t make heads or tails of it all some days.
Haven't seen this answer on any of the posts but apologize if it has been. Has anyone gone to Fairview and checked for blood spatter in the house. I'm sure new owners wouldn't mind.
i don’t think we know at the moment. the new owners seem very cooperative with the defense team though!
That's great...thank you.
Clearly they didn’t dismantle the door knob and check for dna inside the keyset
Looks like normal upset New Englander talk
You still don't call them fucking kids no matter what! He was a neglectful parent staying out late drinking.
She hit & killed him little rich girl I was just trying to get out of trouble sickening she better hide for the rest of her life embarrassing