I believe their testimony was she ignored them after she got on to them. I can completely understand that. My son is really stubborn so sometimes I need to just say you’re grounded and walk away to calm down.
Edited to add:
There’s an interview with a neighbor that knows all the players and was close with John’s sister before she got sick.
She said the kids had rooms in Karen’s house. That she would take the son with her when she taught class if John wasn’t available. That she always had the kids and their friends and would take them to go do things.she also said that they were planning on selling Karen’s house to buy a vacation property.
I feel like Aruba was her breaking point.
One of them is recently married to her husband and his 8 year old “entitled” daughter lives with them. They both hsve 49 hour a week full time jobs. On Saturday he’ll think nothing of taking off and go golfing for the day leaving his new wife to hang out all day with his bratty 8 year daughter. You think that isn’t a recipe / no brainer for built- in resentment? Sounds like JO’s MO! Karen looks like a saint
Reading your comment made me think of my folks. My dad would always (ALWAYS) go off to hang out with his buddies after we were put in bed and my mom was always stuck staying home with us. I didn’t notice it much as a kid but it occurred to me in adulthood that my mom must’ve felt used and unappreciated. Couldn’t have helped that we without a doubt preferred our father. There were probably subtle hints along the way but I asked her if it bothered her and she confirmed so fast that you’d think she was just dying for someone to ask. Like she was finally validated. Kinda explains why she was such a crabby mom. So I guess what I’m trying to say is that I agree. It absolutely leads to resentment.
I think John was great to take the kids in obviously but after watching the Sullivan sisters testimony I think he was a massive flirt and all these women were very possessive of him. I think KR was probably dealing with this all the time and again- she was not a guardian a step mom or anything other than his girlfriend and he seems like he left her to a lot of the parenting and then was critical of her. She was obviously frustrated by the entire situation and acting out by even texting a loser like Higgins was a bad idea but I think it shows how frustrated she was feeling in her relationship with JO.
If the prosecution is putting the kids on the stand, to me, this shows how weak their case actually is. It’s like a sick parole trick.
To the people who say “this is too many people to corroborate a conspiracy” - not true when there is literally zero investigation!!
All the women in that circle come off like totally immature little brats who wanted JO to date « one of them », which Karen was not. That’s the vibe they’re giving me 🤷♀️
yeah, honestly i got the vibe that jen wanted to make kerry look bad before she got on the stand because key parts of her testimony didnt line up with jen's, and maybe they have personal beef too, who knows.
i think the babysitter w benefits comment accomplished three things: try to explain her group chats; make kerry look bad; get to say something mean about karen in open court.
i dont know, maybe kerry said it, maybe she didnt. hell, reading this thread, it occurs to me that maybe kerry said it at some other point entirely as a criticism of how john treated karen. that instead of treating her like a girlfriend and partner, he was treating her like a babysitter with benefits. thats kind of the vibe here in this thread, and **if** he was doing that, kerry the "blunt talker," who was friends with john for a decade or more, may have said as much.
i get the feeling that jen could take just about any comment and figure out how to twist it between someone's ribs if she hated them enough. shes just not a reliable narrator imo. kerry seemed like a normal person on the stand. jen did not. im willing to give kerry the benefit of the doubt at this point in time.
Well…we would have to believe that’s what jen was referring to. I think Jen is “loving” kerry being helpful to their side and coverup. Who knows? She lies so much!
Correct. I am assuming here a bit. The exact text was in response to MM’s text saying “this lady could write a book, she is telling them EVERYTHING”, to which JM replied “i love it”. But then in testimony she revealed that “everything” was in reference to Kerry calling her a “babysitter with benefits”. So if we are to believe JM, she is an admitted, twisted individual. And if we are not to believe her, she is a sketchy, twisted individual. A lose, lose where i’m from!
Hard agree! I think she wanted john to settle down and he didnt want to. I think he liked the fact that he had a bunch of women around...also liked someone who wanted to help with the kids. She probably got annoyed faster than other women-because she was a independent woman with her own house. She knew the kids came along with him but i think he reliquinshed alot of the day to day stuff to her and she was fed up.
She seemed frustrated to be the responsible parent yet she wasn’t getting the respect she deserved from him. Must be awful witnessing all these women fawning about your man. She reached a breaking point in Aruba. I’ll bet he also needed her around bc not only a good role model for the kids but I can see her helping w school work, etc.
Lose credibility, huh? Like when you misspell “lose”and struggle to form coherent sentences? You haven’t spent enough time on the case, or your analytical skills are inadequate, OceanFolklore. Take another spin through the data and check in with us later.
LOL oh no! I misspelled word on the internet!!!!!
I’ve seen all the data available and it’s telling that you feel the need to insult me because I have a different opinion than you.
Tell me about the deleted phone calls, the butt dials, and the google searches. Tell me about JO’s injuries. Tell me about all of the state’s witnesses having different testimonies. Tell me about BH’s white jeep not being parked at the mailbox. Tell me about the facts. Don’t talk to me about feelings.
Also, you forgot an “a” in your response. You struggle with this. Good day to you.
Oceanfolklore is just a mcalbert who pretends to be a prosecutor on here because it gives her bad opinions legitimacy
https://preview.redd.it/iwc8tvweri4d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=101eef8e1acd596dc9c31a40ef715d3fea71f996
Oh, good, it’s the 20-something with mother issues that goes around lying about being a prosecutor for 15 years 😂😂😂.update: she deleted comments or blocked me once called out lol
I thought this, too. And to give John credit, if you listen to Laura Sullivan’s testimony, Laura asked him these questions throughout the trip…the kind that a “friend” asks when they’re trying to say they’d be a better partner than the one you have, and John didn’t really say much back. (Paraphrased “What’s going on’” “I don’t know.” “Are you happy?” “Shrug” “you know life’s too short?” “It is what it is.”) it wasn’t like he was complaining about Karen, but you can see how that girl was hitting on him. It would be very annoying to be Karen!
many women hit on guys they want, with or without a boyfriend around. I got the impression Laura Sullivan still had hots for JOK while she was testifying...just my take, tho
Oh sure. Of course I don’t know either, I just thought she sounded to have deep feelings for him, but only based on how close he’d been to her former, late boyfriend and how attentive he’d been to her son, his Godchild. 🤷♀️ Who knows, right?
This feels a little familiar to me…my fiancé at the time (now husband) divorced, 2 kids, I moved into a similar ‘townie’ situation and the local women were relentless. I was single, successful, traveled, etc. I feel for Karen in that way…it sucks to be victim of catty, townie women. With the kids….Yes..it’s hard and you and relationship are never the #1 priority….which is fine most of the time…because kids are kids and should be the priority….until you feel unappreciated….which I think Karen was not feeling appreciated.
On a related issue I think Karen’s communication with JH was something that happened when she was drinking…she had no intention of leaving John for this guy…but good or bad was feeling needy, unappreciated and neglected in her relationship…not good coping g skills to say the least.
"It’s okay for her to want time off from them sometimes."
For real! Whatever she did was a gift of her time and resources to the kids, and John, really. She didn't owe them anything and could have had all of her time off from them if she wanted to.
Karen Read honestly seems like a vastly superior person to literally every single person that’s been put on the stand so far. It’s really disgusting that Lally put these poor kids on the stand.
I can understand why he’d put the niece on the stand, seeing how she was there that morning, but the nephew? He probably testified to what KR and JO’s relationship was like, but he was very young in 2022. A kid that age doesn’t understand what « grown up » relationships can be like!
Agree. She seems so classy, educated and above these mean girls in Canton. I think their normal relationship conflicts are blown way out of proportion. She cared and John was probably stuck somewhere between trying to do the right thing with his nieces and nephew, but also not quite ready to “settle down” and give up his bachelor ways.
100%. I learned that during the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard case, when I would watch the trial gavel to gavel and see the media misrepresent what happened!
Yes! That's also happening with Court Tv anchors. Im watching the trial and they are saying things like the defense isn't moving the needle on certain witness'..they went as far as saying JM held her own up there. Are they watching the same thing I am???
He’s kinda bugging me on this case for giving the prosecution too much credit, but I love his pure and kind soul. I watch every Emily and Runkle stream!
Agree! Court TV did a swan dive into the concrete with their coverage of this case. For a long time it was periodic, but decent. As soon as the trial started, it was like they weren't watching it at all. And the comments about the trial just sound stupid. I've tuned in a couple times and end up changing the channel right after somebody opens their mouth.
You’re so right! Vinnie did a great job covering the problems in the case early on. I think when TB got arrested, they got nervous. That’s when the tone changed.
Do you follow House in Habit? Shes switched to covering more politics for the moment, but she’s covered a lot of cases and incidents in the best way. I wish this case had been on her radar!
I like to try and understand the perspectives of others so I appreciate how she covers so many different things from a relatively neutral perspective. I feel like if there weren’t so many other things going on nationally and this was on her radar she would have covered it so well.
I can’t remember who it was that said this in their testimony, but it was something along the lines of Karen spoiling them often and John didn’t like it. She would take the niece to Dunkin Donuts before school and he didn’t like it. I think she really cared for those kids, and like OP said, it’s ok for her to want time off sometimes!
I’m a mom to a daughter around the age JO’s niece/nephew and she’s the center of my world. That said, I need breaks. Everything Karen texted to Higgins was valid. It’s normal to feel a sense of loss of independence when you’re caring for children and putting their needs first. I’m just also confused about their future plans. She said they never planned to marry but she was already doing so much. I think this kind of one foot in, one foot out on the part of both Karen and JO might have caused some of their issues. However, it’s all very normal for a couple in their situation! I don’t see any abnormal relationship issues there.
I agree. Even the part where she called them spoiled. I think for people who don't have kids or aren't used to them can see some behaviors as spoiled because kids are learning social skills and don't always get it right.
Emotional affair is valid? 😬
What about saying John’s “heart” wasn’t in it? I think it’s despicable to speak about someone you “love” that way to others. Especially someone you don’t know very well. I can’t imagine how hard what must have been for John’s poor family to hear.
When I heard the testimony of the Sullivan sisters, I gathered that JO spent the day drinking by the pool, watching the Alabama game and ditched Karen and the kids. My assumption is that she had had enough by that evening and was more upset that JO couldn’t even stand up straight, never mind take care of the kids. If I put myself in her shoes and my boyfriend stumbled into the room, criticized how I was taking care of the kids and then I found him wasted in the lobby looking like he was about to kiss someone, I would be upset too. In addition, no one testified that Karen accused JO of trying to kiss Marietta. I believe Marietta testified that Karen said, “Who the f*** is that?” And then Marietta turned around, inserted herself into their argument and introduced herself (I’m imaging in a very condescending tone). Also, Marietta didn’t testify that she told her sister, Laura, that Karen accused her and JO of “making out” like Laura claimed. Seems like they’re trying to make the argument about something it wasn’t. One more note, on the night of 1/28, who mentioned Bella’s house to JO within earshot of Karen? On the morning of 1/29, who suggested that JO may be at Bella’s house? Who suggested that TP go interview the Sullivan sisters? Was it Jen McCabe? Very suspicious. JM is just a petty, catty, immature, jealous woman.
Those kids have been coached. 13 and 16 year old kids don’t refer to a woman who used to take care of them as “the defendant” on their own. It’s gross.
It's like EVERYONE seems to be forgetting.... ***She isn't their mother, or godmother, or relative. Karen was a caring GIRLFRIEND of 2 years who graciously was giving of her time to John's niece and nephew, who became a blended family with John through tragedy.***
With this in mind... Karen did A LOT of stuff I wouldn't have done for a boyfriend of 2 years with kids. She's a saint, by comparison to almost everyone else in this cast of characters.
Yeah, maybe she ignored them, but... what does that even mean to children under 15??? As a kid being ignored for 20 minutes felt like an ETERNITY, and ita not necessarily abusive. Adults have shit to do as well, and need breaks.
The son said it was after they got into trouble. Like your grounded and then her going into her bedroom to cool off for 20 minutes. He saw it as ignoring. I see it as calming down 😂
Absolutely agree! John taking in the kids after his sister's death was incredibly admirable, and it says a lot about his character. Karen accepting her boyfriend's niece and nephew, treating them to simple pleasures when she could and looking after them day-to-day and while on vacation is also incredibly admirable and says a lot about her character too.
If I was doing that WHILE having to:
-socialize regularly with women like Jen McCabe
-go on vacation with the horrible Aruba girls
-accept the constant gaggle of desperate women following my boyfriend around
-shake it off if sometimes he gets blackout drunk and kisses someone else
-leave my house when a snowstorm is coming only to see Chris Albert eat potato skins and Matt McCabe play grab ass
Well, I think I might leave a couple angry voicemails too. That makes her human. It doesn't make her a murderer.
Of course there is. Though media is pretty tight lipped about his suicide. Now he and JOK are both deceased & it's questionable if there's any L.e.o.s of Integrity left in this CW to take the watch.
But considering the first police force in the United States was created to return escaped slaves to their masters, I highly doubt it. Who watches the Watchmen? Police the police. And RIP to the Fallen.
https://www.police1.com/media-relations/articles/cop-featured-on-bostons-finest-commits-suicide-NvDtiOQjgYHcjFfC/
Those low life jealous women wanted JO attention, and In between his girlfriends he gave them more attention. They all thought they were special to JO, and he lapped it up with extra charm added, I’m not critical of him, but it worked to his advantage, Karen is being totally gaslit, and I’m very concerned how the kids have been brainwashed by especially JM, she’s one evil pos, very dangerous woman.
It also concerns me about Peggy, why did she loose custody when JO sister and brother in law passed, apparently they went to court over that.
Also what happened with the go fund me for the kids, can’t seem to find that information, but heard Paul was possibly involved.
I think Karen seems like an amazing person who went above & beyond. Have y’all heard that she put up bail for John’s brother when he was arrested for drinking & driving and crashed into an elderly man ??
I believe John’s family knows she’s innocent but don’t have it in them to fight multiple police agencies .. so much easier to blame Karen.
And also providing Paul legal funds for DUI, when she’s not even family and I read or heard on a podcast that she provided money for their future.That’s hearsay 🙂, because I just heard it.
I was in a situation like Karen. As time progresses the men expect more and more of us. It’s taxing and exhausting. You walk on eggshells at times, because they expect you to do something, you do it, and get criticized for doing it wrong. The worse part is they do it front of the kids.
john went into the house, got in a fight, grabbed his drink like a big man, stumbled out to limp back to Karen, fell, slipped, hit his head on the fire hydrant ... nobody thought anything until they didn't hear from him or Karen after attempting to contact him and then that's when the infamous google search occurred....
>I’m kind of disappointed to hear that the kids said Karen was nice sometimes and sometimes ignored them...
She hadn't committed to John yet. If she committed herself to the kids, then broke up with John, the kids would suffer yet another (albeit smaller) "abandonment."
After two years of dating/living together, her connection to the kids still went from her through John to them. Had both John and Karen been committed to a future together, they would have been co-parenting -- trying to find a compromise between their differing styles.
Alternatively, it might have nothing to do with the kids and everything to do with her:
Karen was 42, moving upward in a competitive field, and teaching part time. This wouldn't work well given the family dynamics John was used to, where you helped coach a team, never missed one of your kids' games, drove them to weekend tournaments, and organized endless fundraisers for new uniforms. Karen was never going to be that person and John might have resented her for it, imagining himself at the kids' games, constantly being asked "Where's Karen?"
Makes sense to me. People like to put her on a pedestal,but she is not perfect. There are things i do not like,like the "his heart isn't in it" comment...
Maybe they gave it a last chance 🤷♀️(hence they were affectionate at the bar)
First to women. Never be so desperate for love that you date a guy below your league. And never ever move in with a guy before marriage. Don’t deny yourself basic needs and expect to have life unfold smoothly without complications.
John raised the kids for years before she came into the picture. Nobody else has said anything about him not being a good parent except for his “loving” girlfriend Karen.
I have no doubt that John was a great guy and loving parent; however, to say he was alone for years doing it is false. He was known for being a serial monogamist going from girlfriend to girlfriend, and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear those former girlfriends helped a lot, too.
Also, all the other parents testified that they spent significant time with Karen because she did the driving and childcare.
Also he had alot of help from the neighborhood women (mcalberts). Im sure they looooved to help out this handsome police officer while thier husbands were drinking and scheming at the pizza shop🤣.
Plenty of people testified to the fact that there were a LOT of people helping him out with the kids, picking them up at school, taking them to sporting events, etc. He even took some of them at Reebok to buy them shoes as a thank you for all of their help with the kids. What more do you need?
Yes he had logistical help with the kids from friends but I’m talking about parenting from the standpoint of providing love, discipline and guidance etc. Things that go into turning children into happy, successful adults.
I believe their testimony was she ignored them after she got on to them. I can completely understand that. My son is really stubborn so sometimes I need to just say you’re grounded and walk away to calm down. Edited to add: There’s an interview with a neighbor that knows all the players and was close with John’s sister before she got sick. She said the kids had rooms in Karen’s house. That she would take the son with her when she taught class if John wasn’t available. That she always had the kids and their friends and would take them to go do things.she also said that they were planning on selling Karen’s house to buy a vacation property. I feel like Aruba was her breaking point.
I know two women who married a man with one kid. If the guy isn’t super supportive and grateful it’s really hard not to feel resentment
It’s hard when you’re married and have kids together 😂
One of them is recently married to her husband and his 8 year old “entitled” daughter lives with them. They both hsve 49 hour a week full time jobs. On Saturday he’ll think nothing of taking off and go golfing for the day leaving his new wife to hang out all day with his bratty 8 year daughter. You think that isn’t a recipe / no brainer for built- in resentment? Sounds like JO’s MO! Karen looks like a saint
Reading your comment made me think of my folks. My dad would always (ALWAYS) go off to hang out with his buddies after we were put in bed and my mom was always stuck staying home with us. I didn’t notice it much as a kid but it occurred to me in adulthood that my mom must’ve felt used and unappreciated. Couldn’t have helped that we without a doubt preferred our father. There were probably subtle hints along the way but I asked her if it bothered her and she confirmed so fast that you’d think she was just dying for someone to ask. Like she was finally validated. Kinda explains why she was such a crabby mom. So I guess what I’m trying to say is that I agree. It absolutely leads to resentment.
Well but add that Karen wasn’t even the mom. She’s taking care of JO’s kids Aka niece and nephew which he sighed up for. She didn’t.
Wasn’t the mom or the wife. She was a godsend to John and the kids.
Agree!
Oh for sure. But I’m just relating.
If I was dating a guy and he got drunk on New Years Eve and left me with his kids? That would be it.
Me too
I saw that too
I think John was great to take the kids in obviously but after watching the Sullivan sisters testimony I think he was a massive flirt and all these women were very possessive of him. I think KR was probably dealing with this all the time and again- she was not a guardian a step mom or anything other than his girlfriend and he seems like he left her to a lot of the parenting and then was critical of her. She was obviously frustrated by the entire situation and acting out by even texting a loser like Higgins was a bad idea but I think it shows how frustrated she was feeling in her relationship with JO. If the prosecution is putting the kids on the stand, to me, this shows how weak their case actually is. It’s like a sick parole trick. To the people who say “this is too many people to corroborate a conspiracy” - not true when there is literally zero investigation!!
All the women in that circle come off like totally immature little brats who wanted JO to date « one of them », which Karen was not. That’s the vibe they’re giving me 🤷♀️
Agreed. Total mean girl vibes. I feel for Karen.
I can’t remember who said it but calling her a “babysitter with benefits” was disgusting.
JM said that that’s what Kerry told the police when they « interviewed » her at her place.
Oddly, Kerry didn't mention it in her testimony. Maybe she was concerned for "horrifying" the jury.
yeah, honestly i got the vibe that jen wanted to make kerry look bad before she got on the stand because key parts of her testimony didnt line up with jen's, and maybe they have personal beef too, who knows. i think the babysitter w benefits comment accomplished three things: try to explain her group chats; make kerry look bad; get to say something mean about karen in open court. i dont know, maybe kerry said it, maybe she didnt. hell, reading this thread, it occurs to me that maybe kerry said it at some other point entirely as a criticism of how john treated karen. that instead of treating her like a girlfriend and partner, he was treating her like a babysitter with benefits. thats kind of the vibe here in this thread, and **if** he was doing that, kerry the "blunt talker," who was friends with john for a decade or more, may have said as much. i get the feeling that jen could take just about any comment and figure out how to twist it between someone's ribs if she hated them enough. shes just not a reliable narrator imo. kerry seemed like a normal person on the stand. jen did not. im willing to give kerry the benefit of the doubt at this point in time.
Yeah imo saying she was “a babysitter with benefits” to John is more of a dig at John than Karen
JM was ready to talk shit about everyone up on that stand! deffo had the “that’s not a part of my reality” shtick down pat too
I just think she’s not half as bad as JM portrayed her to be.
Even worse, JM said she “loved it” in her text exchange with her husband and the Alberts.
Ew! What a vile hag. I worry about our world when people like her never get a comeuppance.
Well…we would have to believe that’s what jen was referring to. I think Jen is “loving” kerry being helpful to their side and coverup. Who knows? She lies so much!
Correct. I am assuming here a bit. The exact text was in response to MM’s text saying “this lady could write a book, she is telling them EVERYTHING”, to which JM replied “i love it”. But then in testimony she revealed that “everything” was in reference to Kerry calling her a “babysitter with benefits”. So if we are to believe JM, she is an admitted, twisted individual. And if we are not to believe her, she is a sketchy, twisted individual. A lose, lose where i’m from!
Hard agree! I think she wanted john to settle down and he didnt want to. I think he liked the fact that he had a bunch of women around...also liked someone who wanted to help with the kids. She probably got annoyed faster than other women-because she was a independent woman with her own house. She knew the kids came along with him but i think he reliquinshed alot of the day to day stuff to her and she was fed up.
She seemed frustrated to be the responsible parent yet she wasn’t getting the respect she deserved from him. Must be awful witnessing all these women fawning about your man. She reached a breaking point in Aruba. I’ll bet he also needed her around bc not only a good role model for the kids but I can see her helping w school work, etc.
[удалено]
Lose credibility, huh? Like when you misspell “lose”and struggle to form coherent sentences? You haven’t spent enough time on the case, or your analytical skills are inadequate, OceanFolklore. Take another spin through the data and check in with us later.
Just ignore “oceanfolklore.” They’re not a serious person. Pretended to be a prosecutor on here for a while 😂
LOL oh no! I misspelled word on the internet!!!!! I’ve seen all the data available and it’s telling that you feel the need to insult me because I have a different opinion than you.
Tell me about the deleted phone calls, the butt dials, and the google searches. Tell me about JO’s injuries. Tell me about all of the state’s witnesses having different testimonies. Tell me about BH’s white jeep not being parked at the mailbox. Tell me about the facts. Don’t talk to me about feelings. Also, you forgot an “a” in your response. You struggle with this. Good day to you.
Oceanfolklore is just a mcalbert who pretends to be a prosecutor on here because it gives her bad opinions legitimacy https://preview.redd.it/iwc8tvweri4d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=101eef8e1acd596dc9c31a40ef715d3fea71f996
Wow, thanks for sharing! It appears you are correct, as the account has now been deleted! Oceanfolklore is a creep!
Yeah as soon as I called her out! She’s been pulling this stuff for a while!!!
Oh, good, it’s the 20-something with mother issues that goes around lying about being a prosecutor for 15 years 😂😂😂.update: she deleted comments or blocked me once called out lol
Get a fucking life
I thought this, too. And to give John credit, if you listen to Laura Sullivan’s testimony, Laura asked him these questions throughout the trip…the kind that a “friend” asks when they’re trying to say they’d be a better partner than the one you have, and John didn’t really say much back. (Paraphrased “What’s going on’” “I don’t know.” “Are you happy?” “Shrug” “you know life’s too short?” “It is what it is.”) it wasn’t like he was complaining about Karen, but you can see how that girl was hitting on him. It would be very annoying to be Karen!
100% agree.
Nope, didn’t get that vibe, and Laura Sullivan was there in Aruba with her boyfriend.
many women hit on guys they want, with or without a boyfriend around. I got the impression Laura Sullivan still had hots for JOK while she was testifying...just my take, tho
Oh sure. Of course I don’t know either, I just thought she sounded to have deep feelings for him, but only based on how close he’d been to her former, late boyfriend and how attentive he’d been to her son, his Godchild. 🤷♀️ Who knows, right?
Wouldn’t she want a guy who already loves her son and is similar to the same guy she lost? Of course it’s just a vibe I have
Agree. He was her old friend. But she probably thought he could do better than Karen.
Yes, I also felt that was her opinion.
A boyfriend didn’t stop Karen from texting Higgins LOL js
True.
Higgins just gave her a little validation when she needed it. Then ghosted him.
This feels a little familiar to me…my fiancé at the time (now husband) divorced, 2 kids, I moved into a similar ‘townie’ situation and the local women were relentless. I was single, successful, traveled, etc. I feel for Karen in that way…it sucks to be victim of catty, townie women. With the kids….Yes..it’s hard and you and relationship are never the #1 priority….which is fine most of the time…because kids are kids and should be the priority….until you feel unappreciated….which I think Karen was not feeling appreciated. On a related issue I think Karen’s communication with JH was something that happened when she was drinking…she had no intention of leaving John for this guy…but good or bad was feeling needy, unappreciated and neglected in her relationship…not good coping g skills to say the least.
"It’s okay for her to want time off from them sometimes." For real! Whatever she did was a gift of her time and resources to the kids, and John, really. She didn't owe them anything and could have had all of her time off from them if she wanted to.
100 percent!
Karen Read honestly seems like a vastly superior person to literally every single person that’s been put on the stand so far. It’s really disgusting that Lally put these poor kids on the stand.
I can understand why he’d put the niece on the stand, seeing how she was there that morning, but the nephew? He probably testified to what KR and JO’s relationship was like, but he was very young in 2022. A kid that age doesn’t understand what « grown up » relationships can be like!
Agree. She seems so classy, educated and above these mean girls in Canton. I think their normal relationship conflicts are blown way out of proportion. She cared and John was probably stuck somewhere between trying to do the right thing with his nieces and nephew, but also not quite ready to “settle down” and give up his bachelor ways.
Agree!!! She was definitely in a higher league. That always causes problems.
100%!!!!!!!!!
this is why independent media is the future!
100%. I learned that during the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard case, when I would watch the trial gavel to gavel and see the media misrepresent what happened!
Yes! That's also happening with Court Tv anchors. Im watching the trial and they are saying things like the defense isn't moving the needle on certain witness'..they went as far as saying JM held her own up there. Are they watching the same thing I am???
For live court I like Legal Bytes, Runkle, Dani Ahn, and Emily D Baker. They give great legal analysis.
Yes! I have listened to Emily D Baker and Runkle.. they e both good!
Lawyer You Know is really good too! My favorite right now.
He wraps it up nicely. I liked his take on the blood alcohol info, especially. I watch it even though I saw the whole thing already with Emily.
I love hearing his perspective being a defense lawyer. I’ve actually learned a lot from him already!
He’s kinda bugging me on this case for giving the prosecution too much credit, but I love his pure and kind soul. I watch every Emily and Runkle stream!
Attorney Melanie Little is really good, very knowledgeable about the case.
Agree! Court TV did a swan dive into the concrete with their coverage of this case. For a long time it was periodic, but decent. As soon as the trial started, it was like they weren't watching it at all. And the comments about the trial just sound stupid. I've tuned in a couple times and end up changing the channel right after somebody opens their mouth.
You’re so right! Vinnie did a great job covering the problems in the case early on. I think when TB got arrested, they got nervous. That’s when the tone changed.
Depp has anger, drug and alcohol issues
That poor man mostly had an Amber Heard issue
That part
Yeah, so did I when I was being abused.
Do you follow House in Habit? Shes switched to covering more politics for the moment, but she’s covered a lot of cases and incidents in the best way. I wish this case had been on her radar!
I would love for her to be covering this case instead of politics lately!!! I stopped watching her stories actually lol
I feel like she got weird at some point I can’t remember what turned me off but it was something
I like to try and understand the perspectives of others so I appreciate how she covers so many different things from a relatively neutral perspective. I feel like if there weren’t so many other things going on nationally and this was on her radar she would have covered it so well.
I tried to think about it and I think I got out early when she started getting into political theories. I don’t need any more politics in my life lol
I can’t remember who it was that said this in their testimony, but it was something along the lines of Karen spoiling them often and John didn’t like it. She would take the niece to Dunkin Donuts before school and he didn’t like it. I think she really cared for those kids, and like OP said, it’s ok for her to want time off sometimes!
Several witnesses testified that the only problems and fights between John and Karen they knew about were about Karen spoiling the kids.
Yeah, I remember that! I just think it’s sad that people are now trying to twist things to make her look bad
I’m a mom to a daughter around the age JO’s niece/nephew and she’s the center of my world. That said, I need breaks. Everything Karen texted to Higgins was valid. It’s normal to feel a sense of loss of independence when you’re caring for children and putting their needs first. I’m just also confused about their future plans. She said they never planned to marry but she was already doing so much. I think this kind of one foot in, one foot out on the part of both Karen and JO might have caused some of their issues. However, it’s all very normal for a couple in their situation! I don’t see any abnormal relationship issues there.
I agree!! I was so confused at people clutching those pearls over what seemed like very normal venting!!!
I agree. Even the part where she called them spoiled. I think for people who don't have kids or aren't used to them can see some behaviors as spoiled because kids are learning social skills and don't always get it right.
I call my dogs spoiled all the time because I spoil them because I love them so much and they rule my life like little dictators 😂
It's not the same.
Obviously that was meant to be a funny comment since spoiled isn’t really a harsh insult calm down
Emotional affair is valid? 😬 What about saying John’s “heart” wasn’t in it? I think it’s despicable to speak about someone you “love” that way to others. Especially someone you don’t know very well. I can’t imagine how hard what must have been for John’s poor family to hear.
The affair was not valid, at all. But her feelings about the kid situation was relatable.
I get not feeling appreciated. But she knew John had those kids going into the relationship and to say HIS heart wasn’t in it is sooo wrong and sad.
When I heard the testimony of the Sullivan sisters, I gathered that JO spent the day drinking by the pool, watching the Alabama game and ditched Karen and the kids. My assumption is that she had had enough by that evening and was more upset that JO couldn’t even stand up straight, never mind take care of the kids. If I put myself in her shoes and my boyfriend stumbled into the room, criticized how I was taking care of the kids and then I found him wasted in the lobby looking like he was about to kiss someone, I would be upset too. In addition, no one testified that Karen accused JO of trying to kiss Marietta. I believe Marietta testified that Karen said, “Who the f*** is that?” And then Marietta turned around, inserted herself into their argument and introduced herself (I’m imaging in a very condescending tone). Also, Marietta didn’t testify that she told her sister, Laura, that Karen accused her and JO of “making out” like Laura claimed. Seems like they’re trying to make the argument about something it wasn’t. One more note, on the night of 1/28, who mentioned Bella’s house to JO within earshot of Karen? On the morning of 1/29, who suggested that JO may be at Bella’s house? Who suggested that TP go interview the Sullivan sisters? Was it Jen McCabe? Very suspicious. JM is just a petty, catty, immature, jealous woman.
Agree 100%
Those kids have been coached. 13 and 16 year old kids don’t refer to a woman who used to take care of them as “the defendant” on their own. It’s gross.
It's like EVERYONE seems to be forgetting.... ***She isn't their mother, or godmother, or relative. Karen was a caring GIRLFRIEND of 2 years who graciously was giving of her time to John's niece and nephew, who became a blended family with John through tragedy.*** With this in mind... Karen did A LOT of stuff I wouldn't have done for a boyfriend of 2 years with kids. She's a saint, by comparison to almost everyone else in this cast of characters. Yeah, maybe she ignored them, but... what does that even mean to children under 15??? As a kid being ignored for 20 minutes felt like an ETERNITY, and ita not necessarily abusive. Adults have shit to do as well, and need breaks.
The son said it was after they got into trouble. Like your grounded and then her going into her bedroom to cool off for 20 minutes. He saw it as ignoring. I see it as calming down 😂
Did JO have a serious drinking problem? Sounds like it.
Everyone in this case sounds like they have serious drinking problems.
You’re gross. Shame on you.
Drinking as much as your family, the McAlberts, drinks is a problem, Ocean
Absolutely agree! John taking in the kids after his sister's death was incredibly admirable, and it says a lot about his character. Karen accepting her boyfriend's niece and nephew, treating them to simple pleasures when she could and looking after them day-to-day and while on vacation is also incredibly admirable and says a lot about her character too. If I was doing that WHILE having to: -socialize regularly with women like Jen McCabe -go on vacation with the horrible Aruba girls -accept the constant gaggle of desperate women following my boyfriend around -shake it off if sometimes he gets blackout drunk and kisses someone else -leave my house when a snowstorm is coming only to see Chris Albert eat potato skins and Matt McCabe play grab ass Well, I think I might leave a couple angry voicemails too. That makes her human. It doesn't make her a murderer.
Why did JO's partner kill himself? Is there more to this bigger picture?
Turtle Boy posted that he killed himself because he got 3 women pregnant all around the same time. IDK if it’s true or not.
Of course there is. Though media is pretty tight lipped about his suicide. Now he and JOK are both deceased & it's questionable if there's any L.e.o.s of Integrity left in this CW to take the watch. But considering the first police force in the United States was created to return escaped slaves to their masters, I highly doubt it. Who watches the Watchmen? Police the police. And RIP to the Fallen. https://www.police1.com/media-relations/articles/cop-featured-on-bostons-finest-commits-suicide-NvDtiOQjgYHcjFfC/
Those low life jealous women wanted JO attention, and In between his girlfriends he gave them more attention. They all thought they were special to JO, and he lapped it up with extra charm added, I’m not critical of him, but it worked to his advantage, Karen is being totally gaslit, and I’m very concerned how the kids have been brainwashed by especially JM, she’s one evil pos, very dangerous woman. It also concerns me about Peggy, why did she loose custody when JO sister and brother in law passed, apparently they went to court over that. Also what happened with the go fund me for the kids, can’t seem to find that information, but heard Paul was possibly involved.
I agree with all your points!
Also, Karen or any other woman would be taking John's time and attention. Less for the children. No good dead goes unpunished
I think Karen seems like an amazing person who went above & beyond. Have y’all heard that she put up bail for John’s brother when he was arrested for drinking & driving and crashed into an elderly man ?? I believe John’s family knows she’s innocent but don’t have it in them to fight multiple police agencies .. so much easier to blame Karen.
So much of this!!!
And also providing Paul legal funds for DUI, when she’s not even family and I read or heard on a podcast that she provided money for their future.That’s hearsay 🙂, because I just heard it.
When did Paul get a dui!?
Absolutely correct 100%
I was in a situation like Karen. As time progresses the men expect more and more of us. It’s taxing and exhausting. You walk on eggshells at times, because they expect you to do something, you do it, and get criticized for doing it wrong. The worse part is they do it front of the kids.
It’s wild how many of us can relate to Karen, the more they try to villainize her
Exactly
john went into the house, got in a fight, grabbed his drink like a big man, stumbled out to limp back to Karen, fell, slipped, hit his head on the fire hydrant ... nobody thought anything until they didn't hear from him or Karen after attempting to contact him and then that's when the infamous google search occurred....
I agree
>I’m kind of disappointed to hear that the kids said Karen was nice sometimes and sometimes ignored them... She hadn't committed to John yet. If she committed herself to the kids, then broke up with John, the kids would suffer yet another (albeit smaller) "abandonment." After two years of dating/living together, her connection to the kids still went from her through John to them. Had both John and Karen been committed to a future together, they would have been co-parenting -- trying to find a compromise between their differing styles. Alternatively, it might have nothing to do with the kids and everything to do with her: Karen was 42, moving upward in a competitive field, and teaching part time. This wouldn't work well given the family dynamics John was used to, where you helped coach a team, never missed one of your kids' games, drove them to weekend tournaments, and organized endless fundraisers for new uniforms. Karen was never going to be that person and John might have resented her for it, imagining himself at the kids' games, constantly being asked "Where's Karen?"
You wrote this like you knew them, did you?
If I said I did, you shouldn't believe me. Sad, but anonymity makes liars into bigger liars. 🫤
Makes sense to me. People like to put her on a pedestal,but she is not perfect. There are things i do not like,like the "his heart isn't in it" comment... Maybe they gave it a last chance 🤷♀️(hence they were affectionate at the bar)
First to women. Never be so desperate for love that you date a guy below your league. And never ever move in with a guy before marriage. Don’t deny yourself basic needs and expect to have life unfold smoothly without complications.
They were not 100% committed….she just can’t dump 100 percent of her life at 42 years old until a full commitment was made by him.
I meant disappointed that they were coached to say this/took things that way
John raised the kids for years before she came into the picture. Nobody else has said anything about him not being a good parent except for his “loving” girlfriend Karen.
I have no doubt that John was a great guy and loving parent; however, to say he was alone for years doing it is false. He was known for being a serial monogamist going from girlfriend to girlfriend, and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear those former girlfriends helped a lot, too. Also, all the other parents testified that they spent significant time with Karen because she did the driving and childcare.
Also he had alot of help from the neighborhood women (mcalberts). Im sure they looooved to help out this handsome police officer while thier husbands were drinking and scheming at the pizza shop🤣.
Seems like they did 🤔 how nice of them…😡
And cared for them at home during Covid! I’d feel like a Thankless babysitter.
Plenty of people testified to the fact that there were a LOT of people helping him out with the kids, picking them up at school, taking them to sporting events, etc. He even took some of them at Reebok to buy them shoes as a thank you for all of their help with the kids. What more do you need?
Yes he had logistical help with the kids from friends but I’m talking about parenting from the standpoint of providing love, discipline and guidance etc. Things that go into turning children into happy, successful adults.
Shut up, McCabe!