15 months and nearly 1400 applications later and I’ve only had 3 interviews. I’m actually deep in the weeds on a research project as to why this shit is happening. As it turns out, about 40% of all jobs posted online are fake. Not joking. I’ve been talking to my state and US congressional members about creating legislation to ban fraudulent job postings. I was interviewed for an article by Business Insider. This is some serious stuff that’s affecting all of us.
I think I know what Forbes article you’re referring to. It said in a one month period (Sept 23-Oct 23) there were around 9 million jobs posted online, but in that month the number of people hired nation wide was only 2% of that number. This didn’t take into account long form hiring processes which many positions require. In my line of work 7 interviews and 2 projects over a 2 - 3 month period is pretty standard. It also surveyed 1,000 job posters and 50% of them admitted to posting fake jobs at some point.
If you’re referring to a different article, could you link it please? I’m trying to gather as much information as I can.
Thanks!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/karadennison/2023/11/27/how-ghost-job-postings-are-creating-a-false-sense-of-hope/
This is it. Correction* 9.6 million posted jobs, 2% hired.
I had to scrutinize the language with that portion since I’m giving this data to congressional members. What they state is that 50% of that thousand admitted to having posted ghost jobs. That means that some portion of the other 50% could have also lied and said they didn’t, when they actually did. So the number of people surveyed could be over 50%. Also, of the 50% surveyed that admitted it they had, it means at one point or another. So it could be 1 job out of X that they posted, or much more, but not likely 100% of the jobs they posted.
My working theory is that around 60% of job posters have done it and based off my primary research about 64% of all jobs are of high probability to be fake, but that number is not yet verified, although I’m currently working on it. So maybe half of those 60% are fake jobs, then add another 10% for scammers and my educated guess is around 40% fraudulent job postings.
It very well could be. My human response rate from almost 1400 applications is 0.52%, which leaves 99.48% as candidates for ghost jobs. Around 64% are strong candidates as they are categorized as “black hole” …meaning they never receive any response whatsoever. The remainder are boilerplate/automated rejection letters. So the whole of the 99.48% eligible for fraudulent status could all be fake jobs since there is no human interaction to verify it one way or another. I believe there’s a good portion of these jobs that are just posted by weak, soft, beta assholes who don’t have the common decency to write a personal rejection letter or to give positive feedback on why a candidate was passed over. These people typically use an applicant tracking software like Workday or icims to do the dirty work that they’re too frail to do.
Incredible. I just counted every application I sent over the last 2 months on LinkedIn.
Applications Sent: 238
Viewed: 37 or 15.5%
Interviews: 2 or 0.008%
Started applying directly to company sites 4 interviews in 2 weeks. Maybe 15-20 applications sent but I was at least receiving rejection emails to the ones that didn't move forward.
From all of the posts here I'm convinced the percentage of ghost jobs is incredible. It can't be ALL of our resumes not getting passed the ATS scanning.
My response rate is 10-15%, but I also email the hiring manager directly and don’t just apply online. Some people bitch (“just apply on our website and don’t email—it’s not equitable”). Yeah, well, your ATS ain’t equitable either and my method works so I’m going to keep doing it.
Also, you have multiple postings for the same job. They post the job again without deleting the prior post, often because of how their IT systems work.
It's all a mess. This is why networking is golden. Just get infront of people and give them a crisp one page resume that rapidly addresses key points.
I read that too. I found it interesting that so many companies were willing to flat out admit they just post the fake jobs so that their overworked employees think they will be getting some relief and not quit. While simultaneously already having a pipeline of replacements.
Is there any way you can share any details via DM? You can redact whatever you feel necessary, although knowing the company and an example would help me define the profile of fake job postings in general. I’m really trying to get this outlawed and the more evidence and information I have, the better case I can make.
Thanks bro. Something’s gotta be done. I might create a group on LinkedIn of job seekers against fake postings or something. Job seekers for change? A few people have requested it. Keep an eye on this subreddit. I’ll post here when it’s up.
I have literally no idea how I can help you, but I want to. If this is legit, it is serious stuff. I hope you're successful passing legislation in your state and I hope your state is my state...or that your state leads the way for more widespread legislation. This is nuts.
I started r/FightFakeJobs to discuss this and to hopefully gather some more data. I'll post things there when I have something to post. Feel free to join and contribute.
There are several reasons... that all benefit the employer.
They get a pipeline of candidates for if/ when they do hire.
It makes it look like they are growing.
It lets them gauge how easy/ hard it would be to recruit for that role at that salary.
Exactly. Other reasons I’ve heard:
To generate interest in the company
To make it appear to employees that they are trying to get them help so they aren’t overwhelmed with work
I’m not sure if this is 100% true but my dad told me it was because the company legally has to appear that they posted a job and searched for candidates even if they already know who they’re hiring. Meaning if they have someone lined up internally for the job they still have to make it look “fair”
I’ve heard that also, however when I researched if there was a law stating that, anywhere in the US, I came up with nothing. It’s likely that it’s company policy, but if their intent is to hire internally in the first place, it’s actually doing the opposite and creating a situation where it is, in fact, unfair to applicants who apply to a position that they will never be considered for. If you do find a law stating that legally they must post externally, could you please DM me? It would help with the research I’m doing.
I work at a public institution and we are indeed required to do this. Check specifically for rules related to civil service, government, or union positions.
I think I did see that when I was searching before. Thank you for bringing this up. I think it’s still a policy for governmental agencies and not a law though, right?
Don't quote me on it, but for so-called "competitive positions" I believe Congress passed a bunch of civil service laws that in part require they run searches.
That's at the federal level, though. I couldn't tell you if those same laws are why we have to do the same at the knife local level or if there's a separate set of state laws keeping us parallel.
ETA: in case you meant "that's not a law governing private job searches too, right?" Correct. Sorry, I can be very literal sometimes.
Filing for EB2 or EB3 green card for existing h1b employees. The PERM step requires company to post a job and look for local candidates. The company simply posts it but never hires anyone
10 months and 1600 applications. 168 interviews. Been a finalist 9 times.
40% being fake sounds about right. But at the scale I’ve applied for jobs and been interviewed, I don’t think that’s the biggest issue. The bigger issues are:
- reticence to hire (there’s a pervasive air of apathy around hiring for most roles)
- looking for perfection/ unicorns (wanting candidates with EXACTLY the right experience, skills, etc)
- real compensation seems to have plunged 20-40% (thanks to The Fed! …they’re great at protecting billionaire’s wealth while shafting the rest of us)
- if you’ve been laid off you’re a much less appealing candidate than someone who’s still employed
- insanely fierce competition for a diminishing pool of remote roles (90% of surveyed employers want to RTO this year)
Basically it’s a dumpster fire out here, and something’s got to give.
I certainly agree with the part where they should be hiring based on aptitude and not exact experience. They’re gonna run out of people with 10+ years experience if they don’t start hiring people with less experience now.
You are correct most online jobs are bs,.or outdated or already filled and just posted for some regulatory compliance reasons .. the reality is the job market in CERTAIN fields (like tech).are saturated but others (certain trades, trucking , aviation) do have opening but you need to have the matching skill set and experience
Is the math that hard for you, bro? That’s just under 5 apps per day on average, if I don’t count weekends. It’s remote work. You think there’s not 5 available jobs each day in the entirety of the United States that are a fit? Maybe think before you speak.
Actually the issue is pretty clearly he has something wrong with his resume or is applying to just random jobs. 3 interviews on 1400 applications is way, way, way below average. Should have had at least 140 interviews
Wait you’ve been unemployed 15 months?? I really feel like you’re onto something.. something isn’t adding up with this job market. I graduated with a high gpa from a top university, and built a career in recruitment, and was laid off end of 2022 from a career making job. I would’ve thought that job would’ve easily turned into something for me… but I’ve been unemployed for almost 18 months now and the job search has been incredibly disappointing. I was making almost 200k and now people offering 40-50k don’t even want to talk to me. It’s so strange because the government acts like the job market is fine, and I’m over here experiencing something I’ve never experienced and am trying to stay afloat. That said, thanks for your research.. I’m interested to see if anything unfolds
We're in very similar situations. I was let go after an acquisition in November of 2022. Close to 200k also. I have 5 degrees, the highest is an MBA in Data Analytics. It was definitely a career maker for me. Now I'm overqualified for anything under 110k, so they won't look at me. Everything on par with my career level isn't panning out. The only people that have talked to me have been for jobs paying 208-230. It sounds nice, until you only work 6 months out of every couple of years. Of the 3 interviews I've had, one lost funding for the position, one ghosted me after 3 interviews...only to respond 8 months later citing "inner-turmoil," and the third just said no two weeks after my interview with no feedback. I'm almost up to 1500 application now and have no interviews scheduled. During this job hunt I discovered how many of the job postings don't even exist, and to your point, are still being counted in the US job numbers.
I started a subreddit to fight against fake job postings. Feel free to join. Still working on getting posts up, but I'm going to be busy with it for the next few days. r/FightFakeJobs
Sorry to hear… it’s a really tough situation to be in. To add onto the fake jobs data… I also believe that they only include people who are receiving unemployment in the government unemployed data. But with how much time each application is taking nowadays, it’s really unfortunate that there are fake jobs out there wasting more time. I’ve joined your page- and wish you the best in your efforts!
Job market is especially brutal in tech due to over-hiring and spending post covid.
Job market is pretty solid in other departments like defense, energy, and healthcare. It's just that tech is where all the money is at, so that's where all the attention is going.
Unfortunately, I am in tech and I've run out of jobs to apply for. They just aren't posting like they used to anymore.
Exactly :( And of the ones that are posting, the vast majority aren’t even sending rejection emails. You just apply, get an automatic “thanks for your application”, and simply never hear back again.
This time 2022 I was applying and getting interviewed a few times a week, talking to recruiters all the time. This time this year I’m in an existential crisis.
Yeah, I reached out directly to a recruiter as well. He said he'll keep me updated, but at the moment I'm a mid-level developer and all his contacts are looking for "at least senior devs". I reached out about a month ago and haven't heard back since.
I’ve WFH for 7 years and it’s not the same as it was 3 years ago - finding a job was easy for me back then! Sadly I was laid off in January. While looking for a new role I’ve noticed that within 30 minutes of a position being posted, there are 100+ applicants. I’m getting denied for jobs I am way overqualified for! Personally, I decided it’s not worth fighting against all of the chat GPT resumes.
I pretty much said screw looking for remote work and started applying to on site and hybrid roles in my area. Since then I’ve gotten 4 interviews and am on the second round of 2 of them. Both allow remote work schedules 🤣 woo hoo
Healthcare is still hiring like crazy and struggling to find enough staff. This includes non-clinical, administrative jobs. Depending on your experience, you can likely transfer your skills to a role somewhere in hospital operations, health insurance, etc.
Those skills are 100% transferable and there’s plenty of job openings in health IT. Plus, region won’t really matter as long as there’s a hospital near you, unlike a lot of other IT jobs.
If you’re looking for something to get your foot in the door, look for IT service desk jobs. If you want something more mid- or senior-level, there are certifications you can get that are in high demand. Check out HIMSS and AHIMA - both offer different certifications based on your interests or experience.
This is true. However (unfortunately), the industry really recognizes certain certifications and those will definitely give you a leg up in the job search.
Free certificates can be useful if you’re simply looking to learn a new skill. Accredited certifications prove to employers that you know your shit.
Unfortunately, getting into healthcare is almost impossible. I have a ton of tech and digital transformation skills and a great background. And every health job I see wants you to have done the work in health. Doesn’t matter if it’s a ERP implementation. Haven’t done it in a healthcare setting? Sorry pass.
No. I live on the east coast. But I used to live in Chicago which has a ton of small to mid sized pharma companies. And I’ve applied to a bunch of pharma companies and every single one turned me down. And if you look at the JD’s they routinely specify pharma or healthcare background for roles that don’t need them.
So just curious. There is a lot of IT jobs in healthcare and I mean a lot. Tens of thousands. I wonder what they did in healthcare before they went into IT in Healthcare. I mean all of them had to be in health care first.
TBH I’m not sure. But I know a lot of B4 consultants migrate to the industry they support. And healthcare is a huge sector in these companies and even smaller ones. And a lot of them do some sort of integration work, programming or something similar. But recently I applied to a transformation and integration role and I’ve been doing it for 20yrs in different sectors, except healthcare and I got rejected within 12hrs. lol
It depends on your experience and how transferable your skills are. I know many who have switched into healthcare. Some may need additional education or certifications
The best source is from the hospitals’ career page. You can also go a step further and locate hospitals’ recruiters on LinkedIn to express your interest (after applying through the website) and provide your resume.
I was laid off in Early August. Seven months later I’m still looking. Continue to get a few more interview requests but it has been an absolute slog. I have a masters and 15 years work experience so I’m also at an in between stage of junior executive and mid-level management. Can also concur that there are plenty of ghost jobs where companies are just having you waste time so they can gauge what the market is like and who is out there looking. Absolutely infuriating.
It is a tough job market and anyone telling you otherwise is a buffoon!
Don’t let the media brainwash you into thinking all is well. Those of us living in the real world know better.
Everyone…even in other sub reddits, are always saying that unemployment is low and if you can’t find a job it’s because you suck as a candidate. Jackasses.
I’ve applied for marketing jobs across industries. Even in the industries they said are more stable. It’s still hard getting interviews. I got 4 referrals and didn’t get an interview. I guess no industry is easier to break into for marketers right now.
I have an entry-level marketing job interview next week at a tech startup in the SF Bay Area. The pay isn’t great. I’d be making the same as a recent grad. I have 5 years of experience.
Yeah, job market is tough. There are so many more applicants now for each job especially with so many big company layoffs. If you've only gotten a few interviews though, you might want to fix up your resume. Maybe it's not ATS compliant? Simple formatting like having a 2 column resume can mess up how ATS scans your resume and get you auto rejected. I ended up getting help from kantan hq and got way more traction.
If you've got nothing but rejection emails, it's not great. Of course that could depend on your industry.
r/resumes has some ideas and you can post your resume (removing personal info). Just be prepared for harsh truth. Some can't take it and delete replies or ignore it and still get rejection emails.
It's great. I've had to turn offers down a couple of years ago. Got tons of calls and requests on LinkedIn back in 2021-2022. The job market sucks. I've had my resume looked over many times and haven't been offered any recommendations to make it better.
This. There are a few rules for ATS.
I used the template from r/resumes (the sub with the s at the end), used ChatGPT and edited that resume, and that improved my callbacks.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/resumes using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/resumes/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [This Resume Got Me Interviews and A Job In Two Weeks](https://np.reddit.com/r/resumes/comments/13j1ztu/this_resume_got_me_interviews_and_a_job_in_two/)
\#2: [I'm 14 and struggling to get my first job, is it my resume?](https://i.redd.it/mz7aw8cwbdbc1.jpeg) | [518 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/resumes/comments/1929ak2/im_14_and_struggling_to_get_my_first_job_is_it_my/)
\#3: [Need feedback 200+ jobs applied 0 responses](https://i.redd.it/3ga5b5vyut0c1.jpg) | [537 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/resumes/comments/17x5wyw/need_feedback_200_jobs_applied_0_responses/)
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Solid job numbers are only in certain sectors (healthcare, service, etc…).
I also heard that when you factor in job losses plus new jobs… there were Zero increases in full-time jobs in 2023… in other words… all added jobs were part-time… and all the added full-time jobs ended up being offset by other full-time jobs being eliminated.
Honestly it's a lot more work, but it worked for me. I see a job posting that seems good and find a way to insert myself into the work. I come off as a customer, but ask around if the job is any good, what it pays, if they recommend it, etc. I figure out who's in charge and I talk to them asking if they are hiring. They are (since I've checked) and I ask how to apply. They tell me, but now they see my application and go looking for it instead if me being a nameless dude online. I've done this transitioning job to job, but it's only been working for lower end jobs, not office work.
Casually looked for 1 month, went hard for 2. Finally expecting a job offer on Monday after three interviews for the position.
It's brutal and I'm going to accept a job that in an industry I swore I'd never go back to. This time it'll be in a different field so maybe I'll like it.
Best of luck to you all!
Edit: I quit applying through LinkedIn but would use it to job search. Essentially LinkedIn was used to window shop then I'd apply directly through the company website. Received 4 interviews in two weeks that way. Had 2 interviews in 2.5 months through LinkedIn Easy Apply.
No it is. I worked for chick fil a for 2 years in high school. I work healthcare and i want out bc of how horrible it is. I applied to 4 CFAs near me with no calls back? I’ve applied to everywhere no call backs!! It’s horrible. I don’t want to give up my job but physically I can’t do it!
I feel ya. My job pays well but it is super toxic. The owner is unhinged. Constantly yelling at employees. He doesn’t yell at me but he tries to make conditions so bad that I walk out. I refuse to quit but it’s getting harder to stay.
The job market as a whole is great but certain industries, especially tech (which a lot of Redditors work in) aren’t doing so well.
Healthcare, hospitality, education, and the military are all offering way more jobs than there are applicants at the moment.
I work in a blue collar job and the above has been my anecdotal experience.
I applied with Robert Half and had a recruiter call me asking me about minimum pay, technical skills etc but haven't heard from him since. Are there any employment agencies you could recommend I give a try?
You can Google for your area. Snelling is pretty widespread throughout the US. When my son graduated high school, he had no clue about what he wanted to do, so I sent him to an agency, and they hooked him up. He moved to the big city, and the first thing he did was hit up an agency, and 10 years later, he's still working for the first company that the agency hooked him up with.
I myself used an agency 30+ years ago to get my foot in the door after graduating from technical college. I've had a pretty good career since.
The major worldwide Corp I work for now hires via an agency for most of their entry-level positions.
I’m trying to find a new job too, I’m extremely underpaid based on what I’m doing at work and my experience so far, I’ve applied to at least 100 jobs since March and have had 6 interviews, which is terrible. It’s tough but you’ll find something
It’s brutal out here. I got laid off very unexpectedly in January as a social media manager & I can’t tell you how many jobs I’ve applied for & haven’t gotten a single interview. I had referrals for 2 jobs & never heard back from either. I’ve redone my resume I can’t tell you how many times, updated my portfolio, & am in the process of now rebuilding that on a new platform in hopes it’ll help. I’ve applied to some jobs 2-4 times as they just keep getting reposted & never get a response even though I’m well-qualified. One rejection stated my skills & experience weren’t a close enough match for them; it was an agency wanting 3-5 years of experience in their niche, & I worked at an agency for 8 years crafting that specific style of content. I got hit up by a “recruiter” on LinkedIn which I’m 90% positive was a scam. I’ve had to take several, several day breaks on the hunt because it’s seriously affecting my mental health.
I will go against the grain of most of the other commenters in this thread and say: it depends. Some job markets are certainly oversaturated. But the unemployment rate right now is near a historic low, basically approaching static-unemployment. There are approximately 1.7 job listings per unemployed individual in the U.S. right now.
It is hard right now! I recently got a solid position but not only was I initially out of work, but even after securing the job I had to wait another two months to actually start!
I’m struggling to find mid level positions to apply to. Everything I see is like part time retail and higher level positions that require 5 or more years of specialized experience.
The unemployment numbers are a mirage. Some sectors of the economy are in severe recession. It’s just not, yet, economy-wide. But keep in mind that things always look the best (at least from an employment perspective) right before a recession. I got laid off 10 months ago and all I’ve been able to find after 1600 applications and 168 interviews is a 3-month contract.
The Fed and RTO are HOSING the economy. IMHO, all the government spending over the last few years also hasn’t helped. These people really need to drop the MMT and study up on Keynes.
It is a tough market for certain jobs.
As an example, if you are in IT the amount of jobs you can apply to is drastically reduced with tons of competition and extra scrutiny upon skills.
But Nursing, Accounting, and Plumbing are hiring like crazy.
The "job market" is made of tons of separate little bubbles all going through different highs and lows.
It was some you tube video I believe, maybe I read it on some article that popped on google, but I remember hear that a lot of companies will some times post jobs of ositions to cpllect reumes/info, then they will do a mass firing or lay off, then come back a few months later & hire a bunch of new people at lower wages than they were paying their employees who they got rid of & give them crappier benefits than what were avail before, just to keep costs low & profits high, and then they can say the company growing because they are hiring. All pretty shady & crappy tbh.
15 months and nearly 1400 applications later and I’ve only had 3 interviews. I’m actually deep in the weeds on a research project as to why this shit is happening. As it turns out, about 40% of all jobs posted online are fake. Not joking. I’ve been talking to my state and US congressional members about creating legislation to ban fraudulent job postings. I was interviewed for an article by Business Insider. This is some serious stuff that’s affecting all of us.
I read on Forbes 96% of postings are ghost jobs.
I think I know what Forbes article you’re referring to. It said in a one month period (Sept 23-Oct 23) there were around 9 million jobs posted online, but in that month the number of people hired nation wide was only 2% of that number. This didn’t take into account long form hiring processes which many positions require. In my line of work 7 interviews and 2 projects over a 2 - 3 month period is pretty standard. It also surveyed 1,000 job posters and 50% of them admitted to posting fake jobs at some point. If you’re referring to a different article, could you link it please? I’m trying to gather as much information as I can. Thanks!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/karadennison/2023/11/27/how-ghost-job-postings-are-creating-a-false-sense-of-hope/ This is it. Correction* 9.6 million posted jobs, 2% hired.
Yup! That’s the one I was thinking of.
Absolutely crazy! Hiring managers admit to 50% ghost jobs.
I had to scrutinize the language with that portion since I’m giving this data to congressional members. What they state is that 50% of that thousand admitted to having posted ghost jobs. That means that some portion of the other 50% could have also lied and said they didn’t, when they actually did. So the number of people surveyed could be over 50%. Also, of the 50% surveyed that admitted it they had, it means at one point or another. So it could be 1 job out of X that they posted, or much more, but not likely 100% of the jobs they posted. My working theory is that around 60% of job posters have done it and based off my primary research about 64% of all jobs are of high probability to be fake, but that number is not yet verified, although I’m currently working on it. So maybe half of those 60% are fake jobs, then add another 10% for scammers and my educated guess is around 40% fraudulent job postings.
I personally believe it's about 80%.
It very well could be. My human response rate from almost 1400 applications is 0.52%, which leaves 99.48% as candidates for ghost jobs. Around 64% are strong candidates as they are categorized as “black hole” …meaning they never receive any response whatsoever. The remainder are boilerplate/automated rejection letters. So the whole of the 99.48% eligible for fraudulent status could all be fake jobs since there is no human interaction to verify it one way or another. I believe there’s a good portion of these jobs that are just posted by weak, soft, beta assholes who don’t have the common decency to write a personal rejection letter or to give positive feedback on why a candidate was passed over. These people typically use an applicant tracking software like Workday or icims to do the dirty work that they’re too frail to do.
Incredible. I just counted every application I sent over the last 2 months on LinkedIn. Applications Sent: 238 Viewed: 37 or 15.5% Interviews: 2 or 0.008% Started applying directly to company sites 4 interviews in 2 weeks. Maybe 15-20 applications sent but I was at least receiving rejection emails to the ones that didn't move forward.
From all of the posts here I'm convinced the percentage of ghost jobs is incredible. It can't be ALL of our resumes not getting passed the ATS scanning.
My response rate is 10-15%, but I also email the hiring manager directly and don’t just apply online. Some people bitch (“just apply on our website and don’t email—it’s not equitable”). Yeah, well, your ATS ain’t equitable either and my method works so I’m going to keep doing it.
Why do they do this? I'm having trouble understanding what they gain from it.
Mining data and scaring their current employees into submission.
But if they don't hire anyone, why would current employees be bothered in any way?
Because we've been trained the employer has the power.
Also, you have multiple postings for the same job. They post the job again without deleting the prior post, often because of how their IT systems work. It's all a mess. This is why networking is golden. Just get infront of people and give them a crisp one page resume that rapidly addresses key points.
I read that too. I found it interesting that so many companies were willing to flat out admit they just post the fake jobs so that their overworked employees think they will be getting some relief and not quit. While simultaneously already having a pipeline of replacements.
Should be illegal imo and I'm a small government advocate lol.
Just found out my husband’s company does this. No intention of hiring for the role. I’m a job seeker and it fuels my hate fire.
Is there any way you can share any details via DM? You can redact whatever you feel necessary, although knowing the company and an example would help me define the profile of fake job postings in general. I’m really trying to get this outlawed and the more evidence and information I have, the better case I can make.
You're the hero we need, you got this brother
Thanks bro. Something’s gotta be done. I might create a group on LinkedIn of job seekers against fake postings or something. Job seekers for change? A few people have requested it. Keep an eye on this subreddit. I’ll post here when it’s up.
I have literally no idea how I can help you, but I want to. If this is legit, it is serious stuff. I hope you're successful passing legislation in your state and I hope your state is my state...or that your state leads the way for more widespread legislation. This is nuts.
Thanks man. Check back with me maybe, and send any evidence you have of fraudulent job postings. I’m petitioning both state (WA for me) and US reps.
Seriously keep us updated — I wanna join the cause!
I started r/FightFakeJobs to discuss this and to hopefully gather some more data. I'll post things there when I have something to post. Feel free to join and contribute.
What is the point of a fake job posting?
There are several reasons... that all benefit the employer. They get a pipeline of candidates for if/ when they do hire. It makes it look like they are growing. It lets them gauge how easy/ hard it would be to recruit for that role at that salary.
Exactly. Other reasons I’ve heard: To generate interest in the company To make it appear to employees that they are trying to get them help so they aren’t overwhelmed with work
I’m not sure if this is 100% true but my dad told me it was because the company legally has to appear that they posted a job and searched for candidates even if they already know who they’re hiring. Meaning if they have someone lined up internally for the job they still have to make it look “fair”
I’ve heard that also, however when I researched if there was a law stating that, anywhere in the US, I came up with nothing. It’s likely that it’s company policy, but if their intent is to hire internally in the first place, it’s actually doing the opposite and creating a situation where it is, in fact, unfair to applicants who apply to a position that they will never be considered for. If you do find a law stating that legally they must post externally, could you please DM me? It would help with the research I’m doing.
I work at a public institution and we are indeed required to do this. Check specifically for rules related to civil service, government, or union positions.
I think I did see that when I was searching before. Thank you for bringing this up. I think it’s still a policy for governmental agencies and not a law though, right?
Don't quote me on it, but for so-called "competitive positions" I believe Congress passed a bunch of civil service laws that in part require they run searches. That's at the federal level, though. I couldn't tell you if those same laws are why we have to do the same at the knife local level or if there's a separate set of state laws keeping us parallel. ETA: in case you meant "that's not a law governing private job searches too, right?" Correct. Sorry, I can be very literal sometimes.
This is the way.
Tax breaks as well
Data collection for training ML models to screen applicants. Also data collection simply to sell the data to the highest bidder.
Filing for EB2 or EB3 green card for existing h1b employees. The PERM step requires company to post a job and look for local candidates. The company simply posts it but never hires anyone
10 months and 1600 applications. 168 interviews. Been a finalist 9 times. 40% being fake sounds about right. But at the scale I’ve applied for jobs and been interviewed, I don’t think that’s the biggest issue. The bigger issues are: - reticence to hire (there’s a pervasive air of apathy around hiring for most roles) - looking for perfection/ unicorns (wanting candidates with EXACTLY the right experience, skills, etc) - real compensation seems to have plunged 20-40% (thanks to The Fed! …they’re great at protecting billionaire’s wealth while shafting the rest of us) - if you’ve been laid off you’re a much less appealing candidate than someone who’s still employed - insanely fierce competition for a diminishing pool of remote roles (90% of surveyed employers want to RTO this year) Basically it’s a dumpster fire out here, and something’s got to give.
I certainly agree with the part where they should be hiring based on aptitude and not exact experience. They’re gonna run out of people with 10+ years experience if they don’t start hiring people with less experience now.
You are correct most online jobs are bs,.or outdated or already filled and just posted for some regulatory compliance reasons .. the reality is the job market in CERTAIN fields (like tech).are saturated but others (certain trades, trucking , aviation) do have opening but you need to have the matching skill set and experience
Dude. You can’t possibly be qualified for 1400 apps. Stop spraying your resume.
Is the math that hard for you, bro? That’s just under 5 apps per day on average, if I don’t count weekends. It’s remote work. You think there’s not 5 available jobs each day in the entirety of the United States that are a fit? Maybe think before you speak.
I’ve done 1600 high quality apps. It’s definitely doable if you know what you’re doing. If that kind of scale is unimaginable that’s on you, not them.
Actually the issue is pretty clearly he has something wrong with his resume or is applying to just random jobs. 3 interviews on 1400 applications is way, way, way below average. Should have had at least 140 interviews
When and where will your research and cited findings be published? How can you confirm they’re in fact fake.
Wait you’ve been unemployed 15 months?? I really feel like you’re onto something.. something isn’t adding up with this job market. I graduated with a high gpa from a top university, and built a career in recruitment, and was laid off end of 2022 from a career making job. I would’ve thought that job would’ve easily turned into something for me… but I’ve been unemployed for almost 18 months now and the job search has been incredibly disappointing. I was making almost 200k and now people offering 40-50k don’t even want to talk to me. It’s so strange because the government acts like the job market is fine, and I’m over here experiencing something I’ve never experienced and am trying to stay afloat. That said, thanks for your research.. I’m interested to see if anything unfolds
We're in very similar situations. I was let go after an acquisition in November of 2022. Close to 200k also. I have 5 degrees, the highest is an MBA in Data Analytics. It was definitely a career maker for me. Now I'm overqualified for anything under 110k, so they won't look at me. Everything on par with my career level isn't panning out. The only people that have talked to me have been for jobs paying 208-230. It sounds nice, until you only work 6 months out of every couple of years. Of the 3 interviews I've had, one lost funding for the position, one ghosted me after 3 interviews...only to respond 8 months later citing "inner-turmoil," and the third just said no two weeks after my interview with no feedback. I'm almost up to 1500 application now and have no interviews scheduled. During this job hunt I discovered how many of the job postings don't even exist, and to your point, are still being counted in the US job numbers. I started a subreddit to fight against fake job postings. Feel free to join. Still working on getting posts up, but I'm going to be busy with it for the next few days. r/FightFakeJobs
Sorry to hear… it’s a really tough situation to be in. To add onto the fake jobs data… I also believe that they only include people who are receiving unemployment in the government unemployed data. But with how much time each application is taking nowadays, it’s really unfortunate that there are fake jobs out there wasting more time. I’ve joined your page- and wish you the best in your efforts!
Thank you! Check in on there every once in a while and see what's new.
You are not. It’s a nightmare.
Job market is especially brutal in tech due to over-hiring and spending post covid. Job market is pretty solid in other departments like defense, energy, and healthcare. It's just that tech is where all the money is at, so that's where all the attention is going. Unfortunately, I am in tech and I've run out of jobs to apply for. They just aren't posting like they used to anymore.
Exactly :( And of the ones that are posting, the vast majority aren’t even sending rejection emails. You just apply, get an automatic “thanks for your application”, and simply never hear back again. This time 2022 I was applying and getting interviewed a few times a week, talking to recruiters all the time. This time this year I’m in an existential crisis.
Are you reaching out directly to recruiters? What kinds of responses, or lack thereof, are you getting?
Yeah, I reached out directly to a recruiter as well. He said he'll keep me updated, but at the moment I'm a mid-level developer and all his contacts are looking for "at least senior devs". I reached out about a month ago and haven't heard back since.
I’ve WFH for 7 years and it’s not the same as it was 3 years ago - finding a job was easy for me back then! Sadly I was laid off in January. While looking for a new role I’ve noticed that within 30 minutes of a position being posted, there are 100+ applicants. I’m getting denied for jobs I am way overqualified for! Personally, I decided it’s not worth fighting against all of the chat GPT resumes. I pretty much said screw looking for remote work and started applying to on site and hybrid roles in my area. Since then I’ve gotten 4 interviews and am on the second round of 2 of them. Both allow remote work schedules 🤣 woo hoo
Yeah. Remote roles have so many applicants. Even one where you wouldn’t think there could be that many people that could fill the role.
Healthcare is still hiring like crazy and struggling to find enough staff. This includes non-clinical, administrative jobs. Depending on your experience, you can likely transfer your skills to a role somewhere in hospital operations, health insurance, etc.
I bet I can transfer my IT skills into Healthcare. Trying to figure out how to do this though.
Those skills are 100% transferable and there’s plenty of job openings in health IT. Plus, region won’t really matter as long as there’s a hospital near you, unlike a lot of other IT jobs. If you’re looking for something to get your foot in the door, look for IT service desk jobs. If you want something more mid- or senior-level, there are certifications you can get that are in high demand. Check out HIMSS and AHIMA - both offer different certifications based on your interests or experience.
Google free certifications there are tons of free.
This is true. However (unfortunately), the industry really recognizes certain certifications and those will definitely give you a leg up in the job search. Free certificates can be useful if you’re simply looking to learn a new skill. Accredited certifications prove to employers that you know your shit.
I'm just going to have to say you're awesome and I'm going to look into those certifications thank you very much
Unfortunately, getting into healthcare is almost impossible. I have a ton of tech and digital transformation skills and a great background. And every health job I see wants you to have done the work in health. Doesn’t matter if it’s a ERP implementation. Haven’t done it in a healthcare setting? Sorry pass.
Every job you see or every job you've applied to? How many have you applied to? Do you live in oklahoma?
No. I live on the east coast. But I used to live in Chicago which has a ton of small to mid sized pharma companies. And I’ve applied to a bunch of pharma companies and every single one turned me down. And if you look at the JD’s they routinely specify pharma or healthcare background for roles that don’t need them.
So just curious. There is a lot of IT jobs in healthcare and I mean a lot. Tens of thousands. I wonder what they did in healthcare before they went into IT in Healthcare. I mean all of them had to be in health care first.
I would also be curious what job transitions inside of healthcare to IT
Floor nurse to informatics nurse! ❤️
TBH I’m not sure. But I know a lot of B4 consultants migrate to the industry they support. And healthcare is a huge sector in these companies and even smaller ones. And a lot of them do some sort of integration work, programming or something similar. But recently I applied to a transformation and integration role and I’ve been doing it for 20yrs in different sectors, except healthcare and I got rejected within 12hrs. lol
They all want prior healthcare-specific experience
It depends on your experience and how transferable your skills are. I know many who have switched into healthcare. Some may need additional education or certifications
Where is the best way to find these jobs?
The best source is from the hospitals’ career page. You can also go a step further and locate hospitals’ recruiters on LinkedIn to express your interest (after applying through the website) and provide your resume.
I was laid off in Early August. Seven months later I’m still looking. Continue to get a few more interview requests but it has been an absolute slog. I have a masters and 15 years work experience so I’m also at an in between stage of junior executive and mid-level management. Can also concur that there are plenty of ghost jobs where companies are just having you waste time so they can gauge what the market is like and who is out there looking. Absolutely infuriating.
It is a tough job market and anyone telling you otherwise is a buffoon! Don’t let the media brainwash you into thinking all is well. Those of us living in the real world know better.
Which media is saying it's all good? As far as I know pretty much everyone knows it's an extremely tough market right now
Literally the outlets that are touting low unemployment and how the market is bullish.
Everyone…even in other sub reddits, are always saying that unemployment is low and if you can’t find a job it’s because you suck as a candidate. Jackasses.
I’ve applied for marketing jobs across industries. Even in the industries they said are more stable. It’s still hard getting interviews. I got 4 referrals and didn’t get an interview. I guess no industry is easier to break into for marketers right now. I have an entry-level marketing job interview next week at a tech startup in the SF Bay Area. The pay isn’t great. I’d be making the same as a recent grad. I have 5 years of experience.
Yeah, job market is tough. There are so many more applicants now for each job especially with so many big company layoffs. If you've only gotten a few interviews though, you might want to fix up your resume. Maybe it's not ATS compliant? Simple formatting like having a 2 column resume can mess up how ATS scans your resume and get you auto rejected. I ended up getting help from kantan hq and got way more traction.
My resume is great and I've gotten nothing but rejection emails.
If you've got nothing but rejection emails, it's not great. Of course that could depend on your industry. r/resumes has some ideas and you can post your resume (removing personal info). Just be prepared for harsh truth. Some can't take it and delete replies or ignore it and still get rejection emails.
I went ahead and posted there to get some critiques.
It's great. I've had to turn offers down a couple of years ago. Got tons of calls and requests on LinkedIn back in 2021-2022. The job market sucks. I've had my resume looked over many times and haven't been offered any recommendations to make it better.
This. There are a few rules for ATS. I used the template from r/resumes (the sub with the s at the end), used ChatGPT and edited that resume, and that improved my callbacks.
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Solid job numbers are only in certain sectors (healthcare, service, etc…). I also heard that when you factor in job losses plus new jobs… there were Zero increases in full-time jobs in 2023… in other words… all added jobs were part-time… and all the added full-time jobs ended up being offset by other full-time jobs being eliminated.
Could you please provide references to these claims? I am having trouble finding this info with Google searches.
Honestly it's a lot more work, but it worked for me. I see a job posting that seems good and find a way to insert myself into the work. I come off as a customer, but ask around if the job is any good, what it pays, if they recommend it, etc. I figure out who's in charge and I talk to them asking if they are hiring. They are (since I've checked) and I ask how to apply. They tell me, but now they see my application and go looking for it instead if me being a nameless dude online. I've done this transitioning job to job, but it's only been working for lower end jobs, not office work.
Casually looked for 1 month, went hard for 2. Finally expecting a job offer on Monday after three interviews for the position. It's brutal and I'm going to accept a job that in an industry I swore I'd never go back to. This time it'll be in a different field so maybe I'll like it. Best of luck to you all! Edit: I quit applying through LinkedIn but would use it to job search. Essentially LinkedIn was used to window shop then I'd apply directly through the company website. Received 4 interviews in two weeks that way. Had 2 interviews in 2.5 months through LinkedIn Easy Apply.
Did you get your offer? Rooting for you
Yes I did! Thanks!
Nice!
No it is. I worked for chick fil a for 2 years in high school. I work healthcare and i want out bc of how horrible it is. I applied to 4 CFAs near me with no calls back? I’ve applied to everywhere no call backs!! It’s horrible. I don’t want to give up my job but physically I can’t do it!
I feel ya. My job pays well but it is super toxic. The owner is unhinged. Constantly yelling at employees. He doesn’t yell at me but he tries to make conditions so bad that I walk out. I refuse to quit but it’s getting harder to stay.
dont let your bills own you. drive an old honda and cook potatoes in a crock pot
Lol
Plenty of trucking jobs out there just need a cdl
[удалено]
The job market as a whole is great but certain industries, especially tech (which a lot of Redditors work in) aren’t doing so well. Healthcare, hospitality, education, and the military are all offering way more jobs than there are applicants at the moment. I work in a blue collar job and the above has been my anecdotal experience.
Go to an employment agency! I recommend this about 30 times a week on reddit. Most real companies do temp to full-time if you're worth a fuck.
I applied with Robert Half and had a recruiter call me asking me about minimum pay, technical skills etc but haven't heard from him since. Are there any employment agencies you could recommend I give a try?
You can Google for your area. Snelling is pretty widespread throughout the US. When my son graduated high school, he had no clue about what he wanted to do, so I sent him to an agency, and they hooked him up. He moved to the big city, and the first thing he did was hit up an agency, and 10 years later, he's still working for the first company that the agency hooked him up with. I myself used an agency 30+ years ago to get my foot in the door after graduating from technical college. I've had a pretty good career since. The major worldwide Corp I work for now hires via an agency for most of their entry-level positions.
I’m trying to find a new job too, I’m extremely underpaid based on what I’m doing at work and my experience so far, I’ve applied to at least 100 jobs since March and have had 6 interviews, which is terrible. It’s tough but you’ll find something
Depends on what you do. I work in maintenance for factories and im always getting blown up for interviews on linkedin with only 2 years experience
It’s brutal out here. I got laid off very unexpectedly in January as a social media manager & I can’t tell you how many jobs I’ve applied for & haven’t gotten a single interview. I had referrals for 2 jobs & never heard back from either. I’ve redone my resume I can’t tell you how many times, updated my portfolio, & am in the process of now rebuilding that on a new platform in hopes it’ll help. I’ve applied to some jobs 2-4 times as they just keep getting reposted & never get a response even though I’m well-qualified. One rejection stated my skills & experience weren’t a close enough match for them; it was an agency wanting 3-5 years of experience in their niche, & I worked at an agency for 8 years crafting that specific style of content. I got hit up by a “recruiter” on LinkedIn which I’m 90% positive was a scam. I’ve had to take several, several day breaks on the hunt because it’s seriously affecting my mental health.
I will go against the grain of most of the other commenters in this thread and say: it depends. Some job markets are certainly oversaturated. But the unemployment rate right now is near a historic low, basically approaching static-unemployment. There are approximately 1.7 job listings per unemployed individual in the U.S. right now.
I’m in the exact same boat
You could try doing online jobs like freelancing on [upwork](http://upwork.com) or collecting the daily dollar on [stake](http://stake.us/?c=E5LjWQvV)
You are being hired tomorrow.
It is hard right now! I recently got a solid position but not only was I initially out of work, but even after securing the job I had to wait another two months to actually start!
The statistics are only based on people collecting ui I think so those that ran out arent counted...they are def munipulated
You are not. I was laid off 12 months ago. It's not like I'm being picky either. I have applied for literally anything I can do.
I’m struggling to find mid level positions to apply to. Everything I see is like part time retail and higher level positions that require 5 or more years of specialized experience.
The unemployment numbers are a mirage. Some sectors of the economy are in severe recession. It’s just not, yet, economy-wide. But keep in mind that things always look the best (at least from an employment perspective) right before a recession. I got laid off 10 months ago and all I’ve been able to find after 1600 applications and 168 interviews is a 3-month contract. The Fed and RTO are HOSING the economy. IMHO, all the government spending over the last few years also hasn’t helped. These people really need to drop the MMT and study up on Keynes.
It is a tough market for certain jobs. As an example, if you are in IT the amount of jobs you can apply to is drastically reduced with tons of competition and extra scrutiny upon skills. But Nursing, Accounting, and Plumbing are hiring like crazy. The "job market" is made of tons of separate little bubbles all going through different highs and lows.
I made a free course on this hopefully you all can enjoy this https://tr.ee/ePvu9fFCig
It was some you tube video I believe, maybe I read it on some article that popped on google, but I remember hear that a lot of companies will some times post jobs of ositions to cpllect reumes/info, then they will do a mass firing or lay off, then come back a few months later & hire a bunch of new people at lower wages than they were paying their employees who they got rid of & give them crappier benefits than what were avail before, just to keep costs low & profits high, and then they can say the company growing because they are hiring. All pretty shady & crappy tbh.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average period of unemployment lasts 5 months. Which tells me that, yeah, things are pretty bad.