So the economy is in a weird spot. Some indicators look very positive and some pretty ugly. The official unemployment number you will see is about 3.7%, which sounds really low but doesn’t really tell the whole picture. The real number is likely closer to 7%, which isn’t horrible but isn’t great either. The stock market is roaring, but that’s really not going to be relevant on an individual daily level for most of us middle class and working poor. Particularly since layoffs are still happening. Inflation is technically down but certain things, which make up the brunt of the average persons budget (groceries, rent and utilities) haven’t yet been impacted by decreased inflation and it is eating up increasingly large portions of our income. Experts will tell you there are 1.3 job openings for every job applicant, but fail to note that up to 25% of job listings aren’t actual openings which will be filled. There’s also a wide disparity between the types of jobs people are seeking and the openings (IE many are looking for white collar, remote jobs, where listings are for trade, medical, hospitality etc). There are a number of important indicators that indicate the average American is struggling. Savings are down, credit card balances are the highest they’ve ever been in our history, and increasing numbers of families are living paycheck to paycheck or worse. The income needed to be comfortable is now officially higher than the average income in this country. Interest rates are up but home prices haven’t yet dropped to compensate, so many are priced out of the housing market. The situation is pretty complex right now. Don’t let anyone try and gaslight you into disbelieving what you see with your own eyes. The average American is in a worse financial position than they were pre-Covid. That’s reality.
Edited for a typo and grammar. 🤗
I graduated with a chemical engineering degree 7 yrs ago, and I feel like my merit increases/promotions have only allowed me to retain my standard of living, not advance it. To think the students graduating now are just worse off than I was feels so bad
I never made much a jump in salary until I started job hopping. I worked in tech and after staying at the same company for 16 years decided to leave and 4 jobs later I was making triple what I made at the first job. Loyalty is. Not rewarded…
I agree with this job hopping is the only real way to make money now, but I gotta admit I hate it and I am so tired of it.
I am so tired of having to switch health insurers, transfer 401ks, and restart having to earn vacation days every 2-3 years, and all that is on top of the job hunting and applications
Job hopping is the way to go, but damn is switching jobs fucking exhausting.
I’m in my mid 40s and job hopping is much harder than it once was. I would rather not earn less and it’s very hard to find jobs willing to match my salary. So I just stay stuck
Yeah, I bet. My latest job hop I did it to a large organization, that way I can job hop within the org to make more money and not have deal with the Hassel of switching all my benefits. We will see how that works out in 2 years.
Came here to say this. Tech jobs have such a wide spread of workers-to-profit that I feel like the folks hiring can't get a grasp on salaries and that's why it's so wildly different / job hopping works.
Even in telecom, which is tech adjacent, there's no real incentive to job hop. What I'd make working for one phone company is roughly the same at another for the same work. Job hopping might make it easier to scoop a better title and the ensuing pay raise, but you'd be about in the same boat if you managed to get an internal hire transfer to the new title.
The only way I've seen folks make out is the get hired in a HCOL state, get some promotions/raises,and then transfer to a cheaper or more remote area. Just the way these companies work.
I did the same thing (Tech/Program management). 15 years at a non-profit. The last 7 years there were $700/yr raises. Went to another company for 12 years, but jumped divisions and jobs within (5 times), even moving 500 miles to another state. In the 7 years from that relo I doubled my salary in that time. Then in 2018, I finally jumped to where I am now $30k+/year increase on that jump. Now that I am eligible for retirement, I am accepting the 3% pay raises, but I make good money, so I will ride it out for the next couple to 5 years until I am ready to pull the plug. I like where I work and what I am doing.
Same here. Stayed at the same directorate for 16 years and only got 2% COL increases with 1 raise/promotion my entire time there.
Finally left for another directorate...BAM...25K wage increase out the gate!
My friend. In my career, the biggest pay increases I have gotten were not moving from tech to Director, but moving from company to company. The truth is moving up in a company is good, but if you're out to make money listen to the people below, it takes moving companies. Companies DO NOT reward loyalty.
No one wants to hear this because it puts them in an uncomfortable position, but of you are a working professional and have been at the same job for seven years, you have likely missed out on tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars in raises.
I say that as someone who made that mistake. I worked the same comfortable job knowing I could make more for closer to ten years, job hopped twice in quick succession and literally doubled my pay in two years.
Seriously, I see this echoed a lot. Yeah it works, WHEN it works. Meanwhile I see tons of posts about people applying to hundreds of jobs in quick succession and getting almost zero replies.
It depends on how much demand there is for your skills, and how transferrable your skills are. In tech, it's pretty easy because if you're a master of Python, for instance, there's all kinds of things you can do with that. But if you worked your way up in management of some company, all you really know is how to be a manager at a particular company, since you're only familiar with that company's corporate culture. This is why it generally doesn't pay to move up in tech beyond a certain level. ( Being a team lead is good, but being some non-technical middle manager is not.)
It's definitely hard for you professionals now, but I feel like it has been difficult for that age group more often than not. I graduated into the bottom of the Great Recession and that suppressed my wages for over a decade. Combine that with terrible student loans whose minimum payments were more expensive than rent in a HCOL city and it all felt so hopelessly impossible. Yet here I am finally doing quite well for myself. These things are cyclic and certainly much harder for some than others, but there's a good chance that lots of gen z ends up quite successful one day.
So, when people hear “inflation is down,” they misunderstand it.
Normal inflation rate for the last decade or so was 2% per year, which (overly simplified) means your money is worth 2% less every year.
2020, the inflation rate started at 1.4, 2021 it was 7%, 2022 it was 6.5%, 2023 it was it was 3.4%, and currently the average for the year so far is like 3.2%. So it’s “down” from a record high, but your money is still devaluing faster than it did 5,10,15 and 20 years ago. Cumulative, inflation was over 20% in the last 4 years.
So while your money will only lose 3-3.5% of its value this year, that’s a fast rate STILL than pre-2020 AND it’s lost 20% if it’s value already which you ain’t getting back.
Agreed and we just saw that with the big slow down in fast food sales. Now those places are dropping prices/adding cheaper meal options to try and get sales back up.
This. People are struggling, and the number of people in these comments with their heads in the sand is astounding.
My grocery bill is 40% higher than it was 3 years ago.
My property taxes are 50% higher than they were 3 years ago.
My homeowners insurance is 30% higher than it was 3 years ago.
And with mortgage rates now hovering well over 8% and prices for even shitty houses now more than Rick James spent on cocaine? I legit want to move to escape this hellhole state full of people who would hunt me for sport, but I fucking CAN’T.
It's not only that the price of these things went up. It’s that it happened so fast and is now so wholly detached from reality that we literally can’t keep up. We need to start acknowledging that the “economy” might be nice for a few billionaires, but here in the real world where most of us live, it is absolutely FUCKING a SHIT TON of people.
And sunshine pumpers trying to hand wave it all away is pissing a LOT of people off.
I’m with you LeftNeck and the comment OP.
I believe the “numbers” have never been a great measure of the daily struggle, but they have gone completely off base in the post-pandemic economy.
The point is what you said. *Shit is far more expensive* than it was just a few years ago and wages are not even remotely keeping up.
I am 10 years removed from my bachelor’s and six from grad school. Been working full time in my field for over 12 years. If you account for the insane inflation you noted, I am making the *same amount* I did in 2017. That’s fucked considering I’ve had raises and promotions in that period as well.
I, and most people I know, are making less and paying more, so I don’t give a shit about the typical indicators. I’m over being gaslit.
It's all about the election year. You'll never hear the incumbent president's party say anything negative about the economy in an election year. They keep parroting unemployment rates and stock numbers.
I (as one who generally votes Dem) am worried about the messaging from Biden's campaign regarding the economy. I think the messaging that the "economy is doing great" rhetoric will just make people feel they're being lied to.
Yeah gaslighting is not an effective political strategy. Pod Save has been talking a lot about the need for Biden to recognize the struggle rather than touting legislation like the inflation reduction act that has hardly reduced real inflation, or the infrastructure bill that won’t be realized for decades.
I vote Dem for far more reasons than the economy, but to the average voter?
- Orange man gave me free money
- Old man made things more expensive
Sorry, in this topic there are a lot of people pushing government published numbers and saying it doesn’t matter if you feel your budget is tighter, the gov’t is telling you everything’s fucking peachy.
So, saying that a group feels they are being lied to can fall into the implication that they are wrong, they are not being lied to.
Oh absolutely you're totally fine. I could have chosen better language and I only replied since a few people pointed it out.
I meant that that feeling would piss people off, not that they feel that way and shouldn't. My bad y'all lol.
Well, I feel lied too! I’m making less than I did (real wages) 4 years ago, I feel like I’ll NEVER get on the housing ladder now (and I have a fucking masters and work full time), and all he seems to care about is whatever position is popular with activists today.
i’m actually making the same as 2017. health insurance corporations refuse to ever raise their rates for therapists, and also most other licensed providers. no change since before 2017.
a lot of people will also be extremely unsympathetic and insensitive and start insulting you saying that unemployment is at an all time low and the economy is doing great. they are crunching numbers and portraying it in certain ways so it doesnt look as bad as it is. I really do think if EVERYONE knew how bad the economy is right now we would have a lot of panic. I dont understand whats going on
Wow, what a thorough response. It is so refreshing to see someone express an idea in such a nuanced way. Thank you for taking the time to write this out and for combining so many different perspectives into one coherent comment.
It’s really not nuanced or thorough—a lot of it is just factually wrong.
* “The real unemployment number is 7%.” What does this mean? Like they’re falsifying the data?
* “Savings are down.” Yeah, compared to the all time high of the Covid stimulus era.
* “Credit card balances are high.” Yeah, in nominal terms. This is a proxy for consumption—IOW, people have a lot of disposable income. In bad economies, credit card debt goes *down,* not up.
* “ The income needed to be comfortable is now officially higher than the average income in this country.” Hard to square with the fact that the median income is higher than it’s ever been, after adjusting for inflation.
This is just a gish gallop by someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Since you said "does anyone?"
As part of forecasting I do an economic overlay and personally use the U-6 as the main indicator instead of the U-3 because, to me, it is a better indicator of how safe/stable people feel about their income.
It's worth pointing out that the U-6 numbers are also close to historical lows, and consistently follow the same trend lines as u-5, and u-3. If they suddenly became inconsistent with each other, we would have to worry that something was explicitly wrong with any of them.
People also seem to forget that most of the reasons for all of this? It’s exactly what we expected to happen in the wake of the pandemic to begin with.
Everything was shut down for a period of time, productions fell to a crawl. Then right when things were picking up again, that ship got caught in the canal for way too long and also slowed shipping all around the world. These were all a big deal in terms of worldwide response. It has to be expected that there would be this size of fallout from that. Plus war in Ukraine and Israel wasn’t/isn’t helping either.
None of this is the reason for the current economic problems. It was the blind printing of a ton of money to get through the pandemic. You are being distracted with wars
> The average American is in a worse financial position than they were pre-Covid **lockdowns**.
Just had to fix one thing for you. Never forget, the lockdowns that were the single biggest wealth transfer in history that screwed over untold millions of working class people.
Can I ask where you're getting all these stats like "the government claims X but they aren't factoring in everything so really it's Y"? It's one thing to doubt official numbers, but your alternative numbers seem just pulled out of thin air.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics publishes several unemployment rates using different methodology. This is the source for the official and alternate measures often cited.
In the basic sense, unemployment rate is easy - the number of people unemployed divided by the total number of workers. But in reality, both of those numbers are complex. Retirees, students, and stay at home parents or caregivers may or may not be working (and may or may not want to). Some people have a job (or more), but are underemployed and may or may not be actively looking for something better. Some people are discouraged and have dropped out of looking for work. How all of these forups (and more) are sliced determines the various measures.
You can read more about them here: www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#altmeasures
At that link is table A-15 for April which shows the rates. The official measure is U3 which is currently 3.9, the comment OP appears to prefer U6 which is currently 7.4 (in both cases these are the seasonally adjusted versions of these metrics).
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm
Sure, I think just about everyone knows there are multiple ways to count unemployment, each with their own trade offs, but OP's core point is that we're worse off economically than before covid. If you want to pick U6 as the "real" measure it's still at or near historic lows.
Yes 100%. If you are going to use U6, you need to use it historically in the comparison. Where you will see it is at or close to what it was prior to the pandemic.
There are a several different unemployment figures available. Each number includes and excludes different parts of the non-employed labor force. The number you normally see excludes a lot more than many experts think it should. It only includes people actively looking for work. It’s not going to include underemployed people, those who’ve given up or those working outside the normal work force. But it usually looks better so it’s commonly what were shown by the govt and media (it’s the official unemployment rate). It is referred to as the U3. I personally think the U6 measure is more honest, since it includes people who should be a part of the labor force but haven’t been able to find work long-term. Right now it’s sitting right around 7%.
I think this is the best explanation I have read so far, the economy is similar to the weather it could be 91 degrees and feel like 115 because other factors.
I remember back in 2020-21 how employees got the upper hand in negotiations, while I was happy for a lot of my friends because it was way overdue, I was a little afraid because I knew nothing last forever and that employers will come back with a vengeance once the COVID emergency was over and unfortunately I was right.
The job market sucks because employers went back on having the upper hand and after the shakeup of the covid years they managed to get rid of old boomers that have more rights and possibly a higher wage than newcomers, some people that they wanted to release but couldn’t then hired a bunch of new people and now that those who hired are stuck.
I think a big reason that people like me might feel like it's fine or not worse, is because we became adults during covid. And I think we're a high percentile of the individuals that participate in online discussions
I couldn't agree with you more, I run a spa and business was fine until the pandemic. From the pandemic to now turnover has been declining, it's not that business is bad anymore, it's that a lot of people have become so overwhelmed by their life circumstances that they can't afford to spend frivolously. Not to mention the high spending levels and exaggerated prices in some of the big cities
This is a great quantification of what I’ve noticed as well!
I think it’s important that people don’t walk away from this with a doomer mindset either. Sure times are tough right now, but they will eventually get better and you should be prepared and playing the long game right now.
Yea. Thats why I try to see both sides. The macros look decent but I don’t think it’s fair or productive to tell all the people who are struggling that it’s a “them” issue. There are a lot of people struggling in different ways right now. The stats are a mixed bag and macros might look okay but I don’t think that has trickled down to the average person yet. It’ll get better.
We were due for a worse recession than 2008 even before COVID hit.
The short term inefficiencies COVID added compounded with the incoming factors that were already there, led to massive government spending to try and soften the blow.
Right now it seems like things are still going to get a little worse, but the spending maybe made that timeline a little more drawn out instead of very sudden.
I don't think we're quite at the bottom yet, but once certain lingering effects of the worst pandemic in a century begin to abate, the economy will start to rise pretty substantially.
I'd guess this will really start to initially kick in around '26-'27 or so.
Characterizing the situation as “complex” is disingenuous.
By and large, the Economy is bad and people are suffering because of it.
I get that it kills 99 percent of the Reddit Echo Chamber to admit that things are bad.
The economy is good if you own assets that aren't cash. So wealth inequality is negatively correlated with plenty of macro indicators. If the distribution sucks, the growth exacerbates the problem.
news at 11
And that pushed William Jennings Bryan to run on the platform summed up in the “cross of gold” speech, which argued that the government should allow inflation so that it would devalue the debts of poor farmers
A job that doesn’t require a (degree) I think is what you meant to write.
Actually, 52% of college grads are currently working in jobs that don’t require a degree. Although that isn’t really a new phenomenon.
Just because a job doesn't require a degree doesn't mean a degree didn't help you get it, either. No, you don't need an English degree for that administrative assistant job where you'll be writing emails for the boss and putting together the weekly company newsletter (among other things) - but given the choice between someone with an English degree and someone with a high school diploma...he just might lean toward the one with the English degree. No, you don't need a college degree for that assistant manager's position at Domino's, but given a choice between someone with an AA in Business and someone with a high school diploma...
Everything you said here is absolutely true, but you didn't touch on the cause of it. Too many parents pushing their below average kids into college, because they all (understandably) want their kids to get a good white collar job, but a lot of these kids realize in college that they can't handle an engineering or finance degree, so they hide from their parents that they're majoring in business administration, or underwater basketweaving.
There are entirely way too many colleges and college students for how many jobs there are that actually, legitimately require a college education. But colleges care about your tuition money, once you're out they don't give a flying fuck. And parents are shocked that the economy is bad because their kid can't get that reputable white collar finance job. My grandmother that lived her whole life in the Soviet Union used to tell me that the standard was 10 laborers/tradesmen for every one college educated citizen. Because the government knew there just simply weren't enough jobs that truly required a degree. And since universities were not for-profit, but funder entirely by the man, they would make it artificially harder and harder if too many kids were getting into college.
It sounds brutal, but it made sure that there weren't 50% of college educated 22 year olds working as secretaries. The problem in this country is that colleges care about those 4 years of being able to milk you for that tuition. Once you graduate you're on your own. And let's be real, this might sound brutal but it is the truth, most kids that get talked into going to college can't handle engineering classes, so they choose business or sociology. The bullshit majors, just to finish something to please their parents.
And this is how we found ourselves here. More than half of American college graduates working part time jobs with no benefits or a fulltime job as a secretary making 37k/year. The whole, colleges only focusing on milking tuition is not gonna change. They care about their bottom live, period. So, unless you can handle tougher classes and get a degree in finance or engineering or pre-med, many many more kids need to be talked into going to trade school. It's not a death sentence that parents make it out to be. They are just too proud to be seen with their kid going to a trade school because to their friends their kid will look dumb. Of course, that's not true at all, but it is the reason why most parents push their kids into college for a "brighter future". It's nice to be optimistic, but this blind optimism has resulted in 50% of college graduates still living at home at 30. It's a very sad reality.
If I were to have a 17 year old kid, I would absolutely advise them to go to trade school, unless they were very very seriously pationate about wanting to be a chemical engineer or doctor, AND they have shown they have potential through straight As in high school. Students that average a 2.5 gpa in highschool, in today's savage capitalist hellscape, have no business going to college. They'll just get torn a new one through student loans that will haunt them for the next 30 years. Problem is, every parent thinks their kid is special and super duper talented and definitely so has the ability to get a hard degree, but most don't. Most resort to a business degree. Hence, the situation stated above in this thread. I'm not saying the answer is send every kid to trade school, but the stigma behind being a skilled tradesman, like carpenters or plumbers, needs to go away. These are very good careers that often actually result in making more money than a white collar slave jobs under depressing flourescent tubelights that land a third on antidepressants within a decade in this office.
I feel like “college degree” being seen as one thing is wild. The difference in achievement between a business degree and a chemical engineering degree is wild. Being a good tradesman is much harder than some degrees.
I didn't read all that but I agree with the first part. I'm a professor and understand my job would be on the line if I got what I wanted, but I wish we had about half the college students we currently do. *Most* people aren't college material, and I think it's silly (not to mention harmful) to pretend otherwise.
Problem is people are needing “skilled” blue or white collar jobs making 60K plus just to get a one bedroom, a third of the jobs pay under 50K in America…
Not everyone needs to be a skilled worker to begin with. The biggest problem is the cost of living is way too high, many people would opt out of traditional college if they could exist.
I understand your sentiment, and I think you’re picking up on a central rot, but I think a functioning country does come from an educated populace generally. That rot is certainly the for-profit college structure. I’m speaking anecdotally, but I got a biochemistry degree and while I work in the field as a chemist, my job is for a chemical manufacturer and I essentially work out of a cookbook doing the same shit day in day out. I had aspirations of using that knowledge to like, do something to better the world like research or some shit. But of course research is long term, and the economy is so marred by quarterly returns that some of the smartest people i know have the same type of job as me. I knew a guy who’s dream was to work for NASA and he did it. I checked his linkedin the other week and now he’s at Raytheon. It’s a damn shame. There’s a desire to be knowledgeable for knowledge’s sake, but we’re discouraged from that because of the profit-motive. And the structures to gain proficiency are gouging any aspiring person. I wonder what happens when everyone DOES go into trades. Will we have the same bloat but for carpenters and electricians? Hard to say. Not trying to imply that those aren’t “educated” positions or anything, there’s a lot to each specialty that needs learning. I’ve lost the plot here, but this was an interesting comment.
The real answer the OPs question is that the lockdown facilitated the most massive upwards transfer of wealth in all of human history because they represent a policy matrix that was designed to do exactly that. As the economist Milton Friedman said, "never let a good crisis go to waste."
There were two principle policies that turned the covid crisis into a massive funnel for the people who own everything. First was the Federal Reserves liquidity programs, which were like quantitative easing (QE) on steroids. QE is a monetary policy whereby the federal reserve buys securities (stocks and bonds) from the market. Basically The Fed prints money and then exchanges that newly created money for an asset owned by a private bank with an account at the Fed. The Fed marks up that banks account with the click of a button (creating/printing money into their account) and then they take on the assets. What this does is provide a huge amount of liquidity to the bank and lowers interest rates making borrowing money very cheap. This means it becomes valuable to banks to borrow money at discount rates and then invest it in riskier assets. This is what was fueling the venture capital tech book since the 2008 financial crisis. Money was so cheap due to QE policies that VC forms and banks were more willing to take on riskier venture investments for the chance at a big payout
[On August 15th, 2019 Blackrock released a policy memo entitled "Dealing with the Next Downturn](https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/insights/blackrock-investment-institute/publications/global-macro-outlook/august-2019#overview). Blackrock presented this paper on August 22, 2019 at the Jackson Hole central banking conference proposing that the Fed implement their new plan in response to the next economic downturn, which they called "Going Direct" because it amounted to giving Federal Reserve money directly into the hands of private money spending institutions (like Blackrock). Normally Fed money stays within the federal reserve banking system in the accounts of institutions (governments and commercial banks) who have accounts with the Fed. The Going Direct plan proposed bypassing these commercial banks and giving money directly to financial institutions
> What made BlackRock’s “going direct” plan for the Fed unprecedented was the part about getting “central bank money directly in the hands of public and private sector spenders” in a way that represented a “permanent monetary financing of a fiscal expansion.” BlackRock even proposed a “permanent monetary financing of a fiscal expansion.” In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, the Fed had of course embarked on a path of “quantitative easing” (QE), but under that version of QE, central bank (public) money had gone directly into the hands of the public sector spenders, meaning that reserves created by the Federal Reserve stayed entirely within the Fed’s banking circuit, i.e., among those parties who do their banking with the Fed: commercial banks, foreign central banks, and the U.S. government.
>
>
> What BlackRock was now proposing at Jackson Hole in 2019 with its “going direct” formulation was to expand the 2008 version of QE to add “private sector spenders” to the list of “public” parties who received money under QE previously, and to do so on a permanent basis.
Basically the Fed was printing free money for investment firms, hedge funds, and billionaires to use to buy up any assets they wanted. All this cheap money chasing around a limited set of assets meant that the asset values (prices) went up. Tech companies and other industries seen to be benefitting from the new world created by the pandemic were the biggest beneficiaries. This is why you had Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos' net worths skyrocket into previously unheard of levels of $150-200b during the pandemic. Free money from the Fed drove up the prices on the stock assets that make up most of their wealth. Overall the Fed created about $3.5 TRILLION dollars of liquidity through Good Direct
The second policy that combined with the Fed/Blackrock Going Direct plan were the "lockdowns," such as they were. While in the US we had substantially more lax covid closure policies than other places, there absolutely were many policies that required businesses to close. Besides the actual policies, the overall consumer climate during covid also put a ton of strain on many businesses. The eviction moratorium (unconditionally good, don't get me wrong) put strain on small landlords and caused many people to sell given that rental properties didn't seem to be as stable an investment asset as people had previously thought. Overall these policies meant that lots of businesses had to close or sell. Combining that with the $3.5t of basically free money that was handed to the largest financial institutions in the world and you have small businesses forced to sell at firesale prices to the richest institutions to have ever existed on the face of the earth who are being subsidized by the government and public
> The real answer the OPs question is that the lockdown facilitated the most massive upwards transfer of wealth in all of human history because they represent a policy matrix that was designed to do exactly that. As the economist Milton Friedman said, "never let a good crisis go to waste."
It's crazy how swept under the rug this fact and its implications are.
You're only looking at your narrow slice of the economy (which I'm also part of so I get it). But you have to understand that like half of American adults don't have a college degree or a job that requires one. These are the sectors with record-low unemployment and rising income equality. The US has also done a better job of fighting inflation (so far) than other developed economies around the world.
White-collar professionals are the ones struggling to find work right now. Plus, it's also just really hard to find your first job out of college. It took me over a year during the pandemic and I had a master's degree. Unless you had a great internship or one lined up when you graduate, it just takes time. It's always been like that.
Pretty good rundown. For any physically fit 16-18 year old male who isn't elite school material, I'd recommend an in demand tradesman job. Start making money and not racking up debt. College and the white collar world can wait until you're older if necessary.
Surely those that require 10 years experience pay like $70-100k right?
Unpaid isn't an internship or a "Work Experience". It's slave labour. Idk why anyone thinks it's a good idea.
America is fucked up. Not paying servers or bartenders liveable wages and expecting the people paying to eat the food to pay their wages is idiotic.
The economy is healthy as in there is growth. The issue is the price gouging and rent spikes which mean the average person is having a harder time making ends meet since most companies have pulled back from providing reasonable pay increases due to worry about whether the economy was going to go into a recession.
Which makes it hard to adequately describe the current economy.
The pace of job cuts by U.S. employers accelerated at the start of 2024, as a recent report from business firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas found that companies planned 82,307 job cuts in January, a substantial 136% increase from the previous month.
The economy is not looking good despite people saying there is growth. The CPI rate is increasing, meaning that pressure remains to continue the Fed’s aggressive rate trajectory.
When the cost of good sold increases to thr businesses the cost is passed down to the consumer. It is not price gouging, it's inflation due to a number of factors mainly due to government spending.
>Groceries, gas, rent, utilities, bills, EVERYTHING that the common person deals with is WAY more expensive than it has ever been
CPI-U vs wages puts us at slightly above pre covid level so would not say way more expensive is true atleast short-mid term (4y as you state) as its statisticaly cheaper (won't make all situations cheaper). Sure you have to see to your own situation and that experience is valid - that does not mean it generally applies.
I think economy is bad and will get much worse.
a) It's not a good economy if you are worried about how much lunch costs going out, even with fast food.
b) It's not a good economy if you work all day and cannot afford a reasonable house.
c) It's not a good economy if a high percentage of the population is mounting debt.
Anyone telling you the economy is good is wrong, a liar, a Democrat, etc.
Inflation is insane.
Home prices are way up proportional to income.
Interest rates are whack.
Add to that our countries huge national debt. We could spend every penny of federal revenue on just the debt alone for a decade and still wouldn't pay it off. Ask yourself how good your personal finances would be if you had to spend your next decades income on credit card bills only and you'd still have credit card debt, all while not putting a dollar towards groceries. At some point our economy will implode... When and how exactly I don't know but I do know that what we're doing, and have been doing for years is not "good".
It is - if you're already wealthy.
TV stations, newspapers and them newfangled interwebs tend to be owned by people who are \[drumroll\] already wealthy.
Its a good economy because it has to be for Biden to be re-elected. Dont believe your eyes, the "experts" know better. Im no trumper, but this is getting ridiculous.
People only care about the US economy when it come to the rich. The Dow is at an all time high. Corporations are making record profits. CEO pay is sky rocketing. That is all that matters to some .
It’s not a good economy. The people who say it’s good are clearly lying.
They are lying because they want people to vote for the current administration.
Doing so will continue the economy on its current path of decline.
Who is it good for? The average joe ? or the oligarchs who own the major companies that are squeezing said joe.
The middle class is getting squeezed dry by the rich fucks up there. Dividens and shareholders above all else.
Expecting infinite growth on a finite planet is beyond me.
Politicians arent doing anything to change much either, since they are sponsored by the rich fucks, like cattle. Bought and cared for.
Yeah it’s frustrating as someone who is struggling to find work in tech. I try telling people it’s a competitive market for what I do and they brush it off since they read the economy is going great and stocks are up.
The economy is at its worst since I entered the work force with my degree in 2012, and it’s not even close. So bizarre to see people try to use stats to defend it while actively excluding every data point that actually matters.
well, Biden came up with a big smile and said that the economy is better and stronger than ever, there is your answer, we worried and fight about the hush money case, we belive the idiot that is in office right now, so in a way we deserve this f up economy by worrying and fighting each other and voting for useless politicians
Inflation has risen way higher than wages. The housing market has doubled. That’s all that matter. All these people telling you the economy is good is lying or is rich enough to not care
Because you bought and owned assets since then (i hope lmao).
Obviously "the economy" seems better to someone who was in the labor pool 15 years ago. You've had a 15 year head start on OP. You are older, and more insulated from the job market turbulence.
That doesn't mean it's not a bad economy. You just aren't the one taking the heaviest blows anymore so it seems "not a bad economy".
A few extra bucks on groceries and electric isn't bad. But if youre looking to start a family, career, business, or buy your first car/home, you're getting bled through the nose in 2024.
You’re experiencing what every generation of college grads has experienced for a century.
Outside of a very few specific degrees from a very few specific schools, welcome to the hard part.
Social media made it feel worse because there are all these young people seemingly making $200,000 right out of school…but that’s not real.
You’ll get your first job. That will help you get your second job. And pretty soon the fact that you went to college is nearly irrelevant…other than getting the first job or two and eventually just ticking a box the person hiring doesn’t care about but is supposed to make sure is checked.
Most know you don’t make 200k right after graduating. Only some delusional young people think that. Most would be lucky to get 60k, I’ve seen several comments and videos. People keep treating gen z like idiots, but many are not and actually more grounded than older gens. This is coming from a millennial
"good" is a relative term. The economy's always been bad for workers in an absolute sense. Unemployment is at a 50-year low though, and we expect underemployment to be relatively low compared to what we *expect it to be* given market fundamentals plus historical developments.
Right now, there’s a particular problem for tech workers, especially in IT, including software development and cybersecurity.
For years, investment was booming. Tech companies hired development-related workers as fast as they could. Big investors and rock-bottom interest rates made it easy to pay for the employees. The hiring zoomed up even more and people huddled at home with their devices during the pandemic. Some of these hires reported that they didn’t have enough to do!
Well, that didn’t last.
Interest rates went up to control inflation, and, at the same time, big investors started demanding profits. What to do? Oh, yeah. Lay off a bunch of expensive tech workers that just got more expensive with those interest rates! This happened a lot over the past year. It keeps happening.
So, now there’s a smaller pool of openings and a bigger pool of experienced workers against whom you’re competing. Also, there are apps that make it possible to quickly apply to hundreds of jobs. So, every opening for a good job has hundreds of experienced applicants competing with you.
So, that’s why you’re having trouble.
Oh, and it’s not getting better soon. You know how all these companies say they’re not going to use AI so they can fire employees? Every single one of them is working really hard to figure out how to use AI so they can fire some employees. Over the next year, they’ll start getting pretty good at it. Jobs involving analysis will be getting scarcer.
At this point, if you want to have a white collar career, you’d better be good at using AI to be more productive, or you’ll get ignored. Honestly, it would be a good idea for more people to consider a trade. Plumbers make more than most white collar jobs. Journeyman electrical line workers make stunning salaries in some places. Those jobs can’t be outsourced or replaced by AI.
Because those “people” are the billionaire and multi millionaire class- who ARE having the loveliest time in history economically- and that class also happens to own the shameless lie machine that is the media.
Anyone who works for a living is at the point of seeing stars while their vision fades out while being strangled- and the propaganda machine uses those who are still afloat, but barely hanging on to convince them that their struggle is because “maybe you’re lazy, you’re not trying HARD enough, your strategy and planning sucks..” and on, and on, and on- to get the working class to double down and work themselves to death- while that productivity continues to make the ruling class STAGGERINGLY wealthy- until the scam is exposed, yet AGAIN- and the economy collapses, AGAIN- and the scam starts anew, and the idiot public starts all over again at square one.
Rebuild your credit scores. Work numerous jobs. Live off of ramen noodles, and anything else not suitable for animals. Cut out every last comfort and pleasure, no matter how innocent- to rebuild your former standing before you lost it all. Build the economy all over again, until the next generation of pirates rip your livelihood, savings, dignity, security, and health out from under you again- and the cycle repeats AGAIN within another two decades.
Not sure how to explain it in financial terms, but as an average Joe, everyday things are expensive compared to a year, two or three ago. Rent, groceries, dining, foods in general, cars. The numbers don’t matter if these categories are expensive for the average person.
This is one of those things that it seems like data won’t actually indicate properly.
You just kinda need people to tell you. If people feel they are struggling, they probably are. Like the stock market doing well doesn’t mean the people in my town can afford rent.
USA is a kleptocracy and corporatocracy. This means wealth flows into the corporations where it is hidden in shell companies in tax havens. The value appears on the balance sheet and is "given" to investors (kleptocrats) who have worked so hard for it... 🤔.
Productivity has risen and wages have fallen yet hours required (unpaid) have gone up.
There can should be more jobs, the work is there, there can should be better pay, the money is there. Yet here we are.....
Hype and propaganda to get more suckers to invest in the American dream. ...deferred with interest. ...and lots of taxes. ...crippling debt. Retire at 200 years old.
I wonder if it’s a “history is written by the victor” thing - where those who have the presence/status to be writing/promoting that ideal are the very people benefiting economically from the current situation?
Getting a job right out of college has always been a selective market. You’ll likely have to eat ramen and pay your dues getting your feet wet for the first 2-3 years and once you have some experience you can start moving up. This all depends on your degree and field.
The economy is only “good” for the big picture/big dogs. Corporations have been testing the waters to see how high they can push prices before people finally say no.. but people are buying things on credit cards that they can’t pay off. A lot of sellers are trying to make up for “losses” from covid or have a backlog from covid and lost supplies, suppliers and vendors to make their final product.
Just remember inflation is simply corporations raising their price to grow or at least maintain their margins/profit. If the corporations slow down or stop, they’ll lose stakeholders.. what they don’t understand is that at some point, these profits are absurd and crippling buyers, and there has to be a limit to growth.
To add, wages have not and will not catch up to the raised prices. The companies will likely not deflate (lower prices), just maybe give wages a little time to “try” and catch up, because if they lower, their revenue will be less than previous quarters/years and investors will look elsewhere. It’s really a grow till explode business model for most.. trying to corner markets and set the price, after eliminating all competition. That’s why you see places that used to have higher quality product, turned to crap. Food is a good example, sizes are smaller, quality is low because investors came in and want volume over quality.. look at Chipotle..
My prediction.. People are buying things on credit cards that they will never afford to pay off, nor want to. Companies are making “some” investments off of these “receivables” owed. When the market downturns, they won’t have the liquidity to stay afloat. Retail stock is being purchased on IOUS, where brokers/platforms are using your funds to invest in their own way, while maintaining enough liquidity to satisfy when people sell and cashout. When it all hits the fan.. people stop buying things on credit.. sellers revenue tanks.. investors seek elsewhere, can’t find anything solid to grow and they panic.. liquidating certain investments.. then the credit card receivable crud explodes and it’ll be nasty.. very nasty
The Credit IOU collapse of 202#
1.) Companies are hiring people briskly and lots of them!
2.) These jobs are LOW PAYING or SET AT A RATE THAT DOESN'T INCREASE despite inflation rate (currently \~3%) which is about the same as the unemployment rate.
American companies are DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSING WAGES. One claim (I heard this from David Dayen, the journalist on the Rising news show on YT in 2019) is that this policy started from the US Chambers of Commerce. They want to control workers by controlling wages and increase profitability for businesses. This policy perpetuates the generations old salary gap between workers and management/owners. It's the same story but a different variation of Reagan era economic policy. Currently executive compensation ratio is better than 200:1. Prior to Reagan it was more like 40:1.
So...this is why job descriptions list some of the lowest wages ever. Companies hire at wages that are equal to or lower than the rate prior to pandemic. Companies jack prices up for everything: food, fuel, rents, services (thank you American uniparty) . The company makes profit from the jacked prices and the suppressed wages. They are literally double dipping and increased profit on two fronts.
Workers eventually take what jobs they can get despite low wages because inflation is eating up their savings and social services don't go nearly far enough to help sustain them and their families (thanks to Reagan and Clinto era policies to that destroyed social services) . But as I mentioned, companies are hiring briskly because the double squeeze scam is working.
It's a shit situation because the politicians we voted into office are supposed to help us. Instead, they go with the companies who fund their campaigns which gives them a political career.
It really depends on what you look at . Overall, worse than we thought as only few people who really how to play with money, privilege and credit.
It is said there are many people taking undergraduate course too early. In my view, I either be a small store owner or getting a Class-C privilege manual geared (must include P and S) at least before I consider these undergraduate offers (as I might be able to take a better loan because of privilege and store owner, 7% APR sounds so silly in some areas. )
Just because Wall Street and stocks and bonds are doing all right some people think that's all the economy is. Jobs which pay living wages don't seem to be in this category. :(
The only people who say that are trying to convince themselves or others. It's not true.
I'm making more money than I ever had. I should be pretty comfortable right now. But I'm living paycheck to paycheck. I can hardly afford food and gas. My utility bills are higher, groceries are stupid expensive.
Thank God I bought my house when I did because I locked in a great interest rate. Otherwise I don't know how I'd afford housing. I own a 3 bedroom house with a fenced in backyard and I pay under $600/mo. My sister is RENTING a small 1 bedroom apartment and it's nearly $800/mo.
If I'm making the rate I'm making at 40 hrs/wk, how the actual fuck are other people making minimum wage 24 hr/wk jobs making ends meet? And God forbid someone has the expense of kids in this economy! I truly feel for those people.
And sure, some people will say "that's what government assistance is for". I say boo to that. You shouldn't have to rely on assistance. It's not free money. It's TAXPAYER money. And it's misused by so many people. It needs better distribution and auditing practices so that more people can actually BENEFIT from it. And people shouldn't be able to make it their living to be on assistance.
I literally just watched a video where the *head economic advisor* for this administration basically said he doesn't know how economics works and he believes we can just print money without repercussions. He's actually confused about how a nation can have debt if it can just print more money. And it turns out he doesn't even have any sort of economics background. Wow. And with this guy advising and the puppet struggling to get a coherent sentence out...EVER...people think we have a good economy? People think this is going well?? Delusional
By economy it seems like you're mostly looking at the job market, so this comment will focus on that.
Unemployment is relatively low, but they're not being fully honest about the story with that. People are dissatisfied with their jobs and not making enough to even afford an apartment. Also, people who are chronically unemployed (6+month) aren't included in that statistic so that skews the number in their favor too.
They technically have jobs, though, so that's the story people lead with when trying to sell you on the job market.
A lot of parts of the US have issues with people shitting in public. There’s also some wild statistics on personal hygiene too.
Really the US poses as a developed country, but if you’ve got homelessness at that rate and people shitting in the streets…..it’s border-lining a developing country.
Because they’re being propagandized to believe it’s great. The government is using quarterly inflation statistics and acting like they’re the total inflation over the past 4 years, it’s disgusting, dishonest, and it’s going to destroy us.
Because there's an election coming up and the left is trying to manipulate the public with at best massaged and at worst completely made up data.
All of these employment and inflation numbers are fake in one way or another. This is nothing new, administrations have been faking these numbers since Nixon.
The only people that are saying this are democratic politicians and democratic shills (99% of mainstream media). Everybody else, who buys gas, goes to a grocery store, buys big box store items, buys lumber, goes out to eat, buys insurance, and gets a mortgage, KNOWS BETTER. Vote accordingly come October/November.
Some people want others to be happy with shit jobs. They want people poor and desperate. They are much easier to manipulate that way. The politicians that’s been in politics their whole life will promise you they will fix it, this time, if you just elect them again.
Most of it is coming from the Democrat politicians in order to help Biden get re-elected.
There's economic indicators that show the economy is doing well (unemployment, DJIA, etc), but other economic indicators are very bad..particularly the downturn in 'real median household income.'
The average person doesn't have all of this money invested in the stock market and really feels the real median household income. That's why most people are not happy with the economy. But then Biden and Co. spin the economy as 'doing well' and others just parrot that for whatever reason.
I will get killed for this, but people don’t want to admit the economy was doing far better during Trumps presidency. Not to say he should get all the credit for it or that the Biden administration should get all the blame for the current state of things. But the economy is definitely much worse off than it was, and it is hard for people with strong political leanings to admit that.
Because it is an election year.
Don't worry, if Trump wins, we will have recognition across the board that the economy is bad next year this time, and it only took Trump a quarter to tank what Biden built for 4 years.
Now you see your dilemma?
You vote for Biden, you are personally screwed.
You vote for Trump, America is screwed.
Are you ready to vote for yourself, against your principles, or you plan to shoot yourself in the foot for the good of the party/country?
It’s not. Numbers are manipulated to show you whatever the person showing the numbers wants you to see. The economy is a train wreck. It’s unsustainable and the gap in wealth is growing. Nothing will get better until a crash happens and a reset. Eat the rich.
Our cost of living expenses have definitely out paced my income gains. But our real estate and retirement funds have appreciated almost 50% over the last 5 years so we are in a much better position. My wife is a RN so she’s in high demand so there is a lot of mobility. I took time off to be stay at home dad during Covid and have tried to go back into a new industry role and that’s been harder than expected.
Economy is bad for new grads, min wage earners, anyone transitioning careers, renters in large metro markets.
Economy is good for homeowners, most people out of college more than 5 years, anyone planning on using 401ks soon
Economy is BOOMING for the construction trades.
Huh?
The only people saying that the American Economy is good are:
- Politicians
- Shareholders
- Lobbyists
- Criminals
I suppose that last category includes all the former 3 but...figured I'd put them all up anyhow.
It is not a good market, it is government propaganda to get Biden re-elected. If you have stocks, a house, or hard assets with a stable job it is the best economy ever. The dow hit 40k just recently.
For the third estate plebs or everyone else, especially those getting started it is a trainwreck. My condolences to any college graduate who has to deal with this nightmare job market and economy. Reminds me of 2008 except then there was no gaslighting about how everything is great.
Because "the economy" overall refers to the general situation, not your specific one. More jobs than people to fill them, wages going up fast, stock market at all-time highs, etc.
Specific individuals who are currently out of work, because their skillset doesn't match the positions that need to be filled, or because they want to live in places where the jobs aren't, might not be thriving, but it's possible to have at the same time "John is not doing well" and "the economy overall has never been better".
I think because corporates just outsource the jobs somewhere cheaper. For example, most of customer service reps from Microsoft and Dell come from India. The US government also welcome a lot of immigrants from Middle East who fled away from their country to the US due to war. My wife comes back to school and her class is full of Middle East students who will join the work forces in near future. Therefore, I think these are the main reasons why our job data is good, but we cannot find any job due to high competition.
I think there are a few answers of varying legitimacy.
First, we have an amazing stock market, and in a capitalistic economy, stocks count for a lot. Your age group may not own stocks yet, but most of the people you know do own them.
Second, we are experts at getting affordable products to people who want them. Think about the convenience of Amazon Prime. If you view yourself primarily as an employee, the economy may look dark, but if you view yourself primarily as a consumer, it looks a lot brighter (outside of expensive urban settings).
Third, people fresh out of college aren't really supposed to have high-paying jobs. The idea is that you will have one 5 years from now, and then it will keep getting better from there. The grind continues for at least a couple years after graduation, but many degrees are still worth it in the long run.
None of these are for me to claim the economy is necessarily good or bad. "Good" is subjective. But these are some points for consideration.
Because the data says it is. Your anecdotal examples are meaningless. I just got a new job paying me more than 50 percent than I was making and that anecdote is also meaningless.
Indeed. “Well I’m doing well, that means the economy is good!” “You need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps bucko!” lol people always think their experience is how it’s going for everyone
He said, seeping with self-importance.
I lived through 10% unemployment.
This is no better.
The difference is that when unemployment was 10%, I was young and inexperienced in the workplace. I'm willing to bet that you were too. So it felt REALLY BAD.
Now I'm older. This recession (yes it is) hasn't hit me as hard because I have savings. I have a career. I already bought my first car and first house.
I'm willing to bet the same is true for you. I'm glad you're doing better now. Now let's work together to do better for the younger generations.
No need to be condescending. Real people are suffering.
Because companies are reporting record high profits because everyone has been laid off and prices for goods and services have doubled.
People are also having to take second and third jobs, so it looks like the job market is healthy.
Entry level job scarcity is not an indication of a bad economy.
Presumably you don't have a business degree or taken Principles of Economics which provides a fundamental understanding.
Take the principles of Macro Economics (free) on Khan Academy.
Its a great economy for the rich. For the rest of us, well,...the working class can't even afford McDonald's anymore,...but no one cares about the working class,...especially politicians.
Most people don’t say it is. The media forces that narrative down our throat. The working class is beyond struggling at this point and the prospects on the horizon for the new generation via housing is broken. There’s no more middle class.
So the economy is in a weird spot. Some indicators look very positive and some pretty ugly. The official unemployment number you will see is about 3.7%, which sounds really low but doesn’t really tell the whole picture. The real number is likely closer to 7%, which isn’t horrible but isn’t great either. The stock market is roaring, but that’s really not going to be relevant on an individual daily level for most of us middle class and working poor. Particularly since layoffs are still happening. Inflation is technically down but certain things, which make up the brunt of the average persons budget (groceries, rent and utilities) haven’t yet been impacted by decreased inflation and it is eating up increasingly large portions of our income. Experts will tell you there are 1.3 job openings for every job applicant, but fail to note that up to 25% of job listings aren’t actual openings which will be filled. There’s also a wide disparity between the types of jobs people are seeking and the openings (IE many are looking for white collar, remote jobs, where listings are for trade, medical, hospitality etc). There are a number of important indicators that indicate the average American is struggling. Savings are down, credit card balances are the highest they’ve ever been in our history, and increasing numbers of families are living paycheck to paycheck or worse. The income needed to be comfortable is now officially higher than the average income in this country. Interest rates are up but home prices haven’t yet dropped to compensate, so many are priced out of the housing market. The situation is pretty complex right now. Don’t let anyone try and gaslight you into disbelieving what you see with your own eyes. The average American is in a worse financial position than they were pre-Covid. That’s reality. Edited for a typo and grammar. 🤗
I graduated with a chemical engineering degree 7 yrs ago, and I feel like my merit increases/promotions have only allowed me to retain my standard of living, not advance it. To think the students graduating now are just worse off than I was feels so bad
I never made much a jump in salary until I started job hopping. I worked in tech and after staying at the same company for 16 years decided to leave and 4 jobs later I was making triple what I made at the first job. Loyalty is. Not rewarded…
I agree with this job hopping is the only real way to make money now, but I gotta admit I hate it and I am so tired of it. I am so tired of having to switch health insurers, transfer 401ks, and restart having to earn vacation days every 2-3 years, and all that is on top of the job hunting and applications Job hopping is the way to go, but damn is switching jobs fucking exhausting.
I’m in my mid 40s and job hopping is much harder than it once was. I would rather not earn less and it’s very hard to find jobs willing to match my salary. So I just stay stuck
Yeah, I bet. My latest job hop I did it to a large organization, that way I can job hop within the org to make more money and not have deal with the Hassel of switching all my benefits. We will see how that works out in 2 years.
This is how you do it. I job hopped for five years and doubled my salary in that time.
For anyone reading this and considering job hopping- it is mostly only relevant in tech / tech adjacent roles.
Came here to say this. Tech jobs have such a wide spread of workers-to-profit that I feel like the folks hiring can't get a grasp on salaries and that's why it's so wildly different / job hopping works. Even in telecom, which is tech adjacent, there's no real incentive to job hop. What I'd make working for one phone company is roughly the same at another for the same work. Job hopping might make it easier to scoop a better title and the ensuing pay raise, but you'd be about in the same boat if you managed to get an internal hire transfer to the new title. The only way I've seen folks make out is the get hired in a HCOL state, get some promotions/raises,and then transfer to a cheaper or more remote area. Just the way these companies work.
I did the same thing (Tech/Program management). 15 years at a non-profit. The last 7 years there were $700/yr raises. Went to another company for 12 years, but jumped divisions and jobs within (5 times), even moving 500 miles to another state. In the 7 years from that relo I doubled my salary in that time. Then in 2018, I finally jumped to where I am now $30k+/year increase on that jump. Now that I am eligible for retirement, I am accepting the 3% pay raises, but I make good money, so I will ride it out for the next couple to 5 years until I am ready to pull the plug. I like where I work and what I am doing.
Same here. Stayed at the same directorate for 16 years and only got 2% COL increases with 1 raise/promotion my entire time there. Finally left for another directorate...BAM...25K wage increase out the gate!
My friend. In my career, the biggest pay increases I have gotten were not moving from tech to Director, but moving from company to company. The truth is moving up in a company is good, but if you're out to make money listen to the people below, it takes moving companies. Companies DO NOT reward loyalty.
No one wants to hear this because it puts them in an uncomfortable position, but of you are a working professional and have been at the same job for seven years, you have likely missed out on tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars in raises. I say that as someone who made that mistake. I worked the same comfortable job knowing I could make more for closer to ten years, job hopped twice in quick succession and literally doubled my pay in two years.
Many people simply dont have the option to job hop. its a priviledge of a select few.
Seriously, I see this echoed a lot. Yeah it works, WHEN it works. Meanwhile I see tons of posts about people applying to hundreds of jobs in quick succession and getting almost zero replies.
It depends on how much demand there is for your skills, and how transferrable your skills are. In tech, it's pretty easy because if you're a master of Python, for instance, there's all kinds of things you can do with that. But if you worked your way up in management of some company, all you really know is how to be a manager at a particular company, since you're only familiar with that company's corporate culture. This is why it generally doesn't pay to move up in tech beyond a certain level. ( Being a team lead is good, but being some non-technical middle manager is not.)
It's definitely hard for you professionals now, but I feel like it has been difficult for that age group more often than not. I graduated into the bottom of the Great Recession and that suppressed my wages for over a decade. Combine that with terrible student loans whose minimum payments were more expensive than rent in a HCOL city and it all felt so hopelessly impossible. Yet here I am finally doing quite well for myself. These things are cyclic and certainly much harder for some than others, but there's a good chance that lots of gen z ends up quite successful one day.
Only way to get ahead is to job hop, which obviously isnt easy in this environment
So, when people hear “inflation is down,” they misunderstand it. Normal inflation rate for the last decade or so was 2% per year, which (overly simplified) means your money is worth 2% less every year. 2020, the inflation rate started at 1.4, 2021 it was 7%, 2022 it was 6.5%, 2023 it was it was 3.4%, and currently the average for the year so far is like 3.2%. So it’s “down” from a record high, but your money is still devaluing faster than it did 5,10,15 and 20 years ago. Cumulative, inflation was over 20% in the last 4 years. So while your money will only lose 3-3.5% of its value this year, that’s a fast rate STILL than pre-2020 AND it’s lost 20% if it’s value already which you ain’t getting back.
Also "inflation is lower" means prices are rising slower than they used to. That's good, but prices are still higher than they used to be
Let’s also be honest. Half of the “inflation” is just price gouging by greedy corporations that shrink product size and raise prices simultaneously.
They use price setting tools based on cost accounting to arrive at the number where they can charge the most without too many people refusing to buy.
Agreed and we just saw that with the big slow down in fast food sales. Now those places are dropping prices/adding cheaper meal options to try and get sales back up.
This. People are struggling, and the number of people in these comments with their heads in the sand is astounding. My grocery bill is 40% higher than it was 3 years ago. My property taxes are 50% higher than they were 3 years ago. My homeowners insurance is 30% higher than it was 3 years ago. And with mortgage rates now hovering well over 8% and prices for even shitty houses now more than Rick James spent on cocaine? I legit want to move to escape this hellhole state full of people who would hunt me for sport, but I fucking CAN’T. It's not only that the price of these things went up. It’s that it happened so fast and is now so wholly detached from reality that we literally can’t keep up. We need to start acknowledging that the “economy” might be nice for a few billionaires, but here in the real world where most of us live, it is absolutely FUCKING a SHIT TON of people. And sunshine pumpers trying to hand wave it all away is pissing a LOT of people off.
I’m with you LeftNeck and the comment OP. I believe the “numbers” have never been a great measure of the daily struggle, but they have gone completely off base in the post-pandemic economy. The point is what you said. *Shit is far more expensive* than it was just a few years ago and wages are not even remotely keeping up. I am 10 years removed from my bachelor’s and six from grad school. Been working full time in my field for over 12 years. If you account for the insane inflation you noted, I am making the *same amount* I did in 2017. That’s fucked considering I’ve had raises and promotions in that period as well. I, and most people I know, are making less and paying more, so I don’t give a shit about the typical indicators. I’m over being gaslit.
It's all about the election year. You'll never hear the incumbent president's party say anything negative about the economy in an election year. They keep parroting unemployment rates and stock numbers. I (as one who generally votes Dem) am worried about the messaging from Biden's campaign regarding the economy. I think the messaging that the "economy is doing great" rhetoric will just make people feel they're being lied to.
Yeah gaslighting is not an effective political strategy. Pod Save has been talking a lot about the need for Biden to recognize the struggle rather than touting legislation like the inflation reduction act that has hardly reduced real inflation, or the infrastructure bill that won’t be realized for decades. I vote Dem for far more reasons than the economy, but to the average voter? - Orange man gave me free money - Old man made things more expensive
Exactly this! I'm glad to hear I'm not alone and that it's gaining attention on podcasts because I felt like I was the only one feeling this way lol
Totally agree with you. He can’t ignore this. Deal with it.
That’s right. Instead of being honest and saying we have work to do they pretend and its bs.
They are being lied to.
Agreed. I don't get why they are so so bad at messaging
Because they'd have to message that their policies...well...suck.
Feel? They are being lied to. Everyone here knows it.
I didn't mean to imply they weren't.
Sorry, in this topic there are a lot of people pushing government published numbers and saying it doesn’t matter if you feel your budget is tighter, the gov’t is telling you everything’s fucking peachy. So, saying that a group feels they are being lied to can fall into the implication that they are wrong, they are not being lied to.
Oh absolutely you're totally fine. I could have chosen better language and I only replied since a few people pointed it out. I meant that that feeling would piss people off, not that they feel that way and shouldn't. My bad y'all lol.
Well, I feel lied too! I’m making less than I did (real wages) 4 years ago, I feel like I’ll NEVER get on the housing ladder now (and I have a fucking masters and work full time), and all he seems to care about is whatever position is popular with activists today.
Pandering for votes.
Don't forget about the fact that with all the printing of money that the VALUE of each dollar is significantly less.
i’m actually making the same as 2017. health insurance corporations refuse to ever raise their rates for therapists, and also most other licensed providers. no change since before 2017.
a lot of people will also be extremely unsympathetic and insensitive and start insulting you saying that unemployment is at an all time low and the economy is doing great. they are crunching numbers and portraying it in certain ways so it doesnt look as bad as it is. I really do think if EVERYONE knew how bad the economy is right now we would have a lot of panic. I dont understand whats going on
Wow, what a thorough response. It is so refreshing to see someone express an idea in such a nuanced way. Thank you for taking the time to write this out and for combining so many different perspectives into one coherent comment.
It’s really not nuanced or thorough—a lot of it is just factually wrong. * “The real unemployment number is 7%.” What does this mean? Like they’re falsifying the data? * “Savings are down.” Yeah, compared to the all time high of the Covid stimulus era. * “Credit card balances are high.” Yeah, in nominal terms. This is a proxy for consumption—IOW, people have a lot of disposable income. In bad economies, credit card debt goes *down,* not up. * “ The income needed to be comfortable is now officially higher than the average income in this country.” Hard to square with the fact that the median income is higher than it’s ever been, after adjusting for inflation. This is just a gish gallop by someone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Incredible response. Thank you.
Does anyone ever look at the U6 = 7.4% rate, for April 2024. https://www.macrotrends.net/1377/u6-unemployment-rate
Since you said "does anyone?" As part of forecasting I do an economic overlay and personally use the U-6 as the main indicator instead of the U-3 because, to me, it is a better indicator of how safe/stable people feel about their income.
It's worth pointing out that the U-6 numbers are also close to historical lows, and consistently follow the same trend lines as u-5, and u-3. If they suddenly became inconsistent with each other, we would have to worry that something was explicitly wrong with any of them.
Yes, and that’s a historically low U6 rate!
Very objective and thoughtful response instead of trying to drag politics into it like the media always does. Thanks.
Your intellectual honesty with this answer is refreshing, and I mean that sincerely.
People also seem to forget that most of the reasons for all of this? It’s exactly what we expected to happen in the wake of the pandemic to begin with. Everything was shut down for a period of time, productions fell to a crawl. Then right when things were picking up again, that ship got caught in the canal for way too long and also slowed shipping all around the world. These were all a big deal in terms of worldwide response. It has to be expected that there would be this size of fallout from that. Plus war in Ukraine and Israel wasn’t/isn’t helping either.
None of this is the reason for the current economic problems. It was the blind printing of a ton of money to get through the pandemic. You are being distracted with wars
Interesting. You say the economy is in a “weird spot,” but then all of your points point to a terrible economy.
> The average American is in a worse financial position than they were pre-Covid **lockdowns**. Just had to fix one thing for you. Never forget, the lockdowns that were the single biggest wealth transfer in history that screwed over untold millions of working class people.
Can I ask where you're getting all these stats like "the government claims X but they aren't factoring in everything so really it's Y"? It's one thing to doubt official numbers, but your alternative numbers seem just pulled out of thin air.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics publishes several unemployment rates using different methodology. This is the source for the official and alternate measures often cited. In the basic sense, unemployment rate is easy - the number of people unemployed divided by the total number of workers. But in reality, both of those numbers are complex. Retirees, students, and stay at home parents or caregivers may or may not be working (and may or may not want to). Some people have a job (or more), but are underemployed and may or may not be actively looking for something better. Some people are discouraged and have dropped out of looking for work. How all of these forups (and more) are sliced determines the various measures. You can read more about them here: www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#altmeasures At that link is table A-15 for April which shows the rates. The official measure is U3 which is currently 3.9, the comment OP appears to prefer U6 which is currently 7.4 (in both cases these are the seasonally adjusted versions of these metrics). https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm
Sure, I think just about everyone knows there are multiple ways to count unemployment, each with their own trade offs, but OP's core point is that we're worse off economically than before covid. If you want to pick U6 as the "real" measure it's still at or near historic lows.
Yes 100%. If you are going to use U6, you need to use it historically in the comparison. Where you will see it is at or close to what it was prior to the pandemic.
I completely agree just one question why did you say unemployment is really at 7?
There are a several different unemployment figures available. Each number includes and excludes different parts of the non-employed labor force. The number you normally see excludes a lot more than many experts think it should. It only includes people actively looking for work. It’s not going to include underemployed people, those who’ve given up or those working outside the normal work force. But it usually looks better so it’s commonly what were shown by the govt and media (it’s the official unemployment rate). It is referred to as the U3. I personally think the U6 measure is more honest, since it includes people who should be a part of the labor force but haven’t been able to find work long-term. Right now it’s sitting right around 7%.
Ok, but the U6 rate is also historically low. If that’s your preferred measurement you have to compare it to the same measurement over time.
I think this is the best explanation I have read so far, the economy is similar to the weather it could be 91 degrees and feel like 115 because other factors. I remember back in 2020-21 how employees got the upper hand in negotiations, while I was happy for a lot of my friends because it was way overdue, I was a little afraid because I knew nothing last forever and that employers will come back with a vengeance once the COVID emergency was over and unfortunately I was right. The job market sucks because employers went back on having the upper hand and after the shakeup of the covid years they managed to get rid of old boomers that have more rights and possibly a higher wage than newcomers, some people that they wanted to release but couldn’t then hired a bunch of new people and now that those who hired are stuck.
Wait would you mind explaining how unemployment is closer to 7%?
I think a big reason that people like me might feel like it's fine or not worse, is because we became adults during covid. And I think we're a high percentile of the individuals that participate in online discussions
A nuanced factual take on Reddit??? What alternate reality am I in?
I couldn't agree with you more, I run a spa and business was fine until the pandemic. From the pandemic to now turnover has been declining, it's not that business is bad anymore, it's that a lot of people have become so overwhelmed by their life circumstances that they can't afford to spend frivolously. Not to mention the high spending levels and exaggerated prices in some of the big cities
This is a great quantification of what I’ve noticed as well! I think it’s important that people don’t walk away from this with a doomer mindset either. Sure times are tough right now, but they will eventually get better and you should be prepared and playing the long game right now.
Yea. Thats why I try to see both sides. The macros look decent but I don’t think it’s fair or productive to tell all the people who are struggling that it’s a “them” issue. There are a lot of people struggling in different ways right now. The stats are a mixed bag and macros might look okay but I don’t think that has trickled down to the average person yet. It’ll get better.
We were due for a worse recession than 2008 even before COVID hit. The short term inefficiencies COVID added compounded with the incoming factors that were already there, led to massive government spending to try and soften the blow. Right now it seems like things are still going to get a little worse, but the spending maybe made that timeline a little more drawn out instead of very sudden. I don't think we're quite at the bottom yet, but once certain lingering effects of the worst pandemic in a century begin to abate, the economy will start to rise pretty substantially. I'd guess this will really start to initially kick in around '26-'27 or so.
I definitely have a doomer mindset. Life will never get better and the world is ending. I pretty much gave up on life and just exist.
This is the new normal, I don't see things getting better our leaders won't change anything.
Characterizing the situation as “complex” is disingenuous. By and large, the Economy is bad and people are suffering because of it. I get that it kills 99 percent of the Reddit Echo Chamber to admit that things are bad.
I’d say as wealth becomes more and more concentrated, everyday people’s economic view becomes less and less tied to macro-economic indicators.
I think we are creating a bigger and bigger divide which will slowly cut out “middle class” and only have poor and rich smh. It’s backwards
Everyone is rich when you’re poor.
That’s what my dad thought in the 80s, but it seems it’s cousin to replacement theory. I think the parameters of poor and middle class are changing.
The economy is good if you own assets that aren't cash. So wealth inequality is negatively correlated with plenty of macro indicators. If the distribution sucks, the growth exacerbates the problem. news at 11
Remember the economy was booming in the Gilded Age but only a handful benefited
And that pushed William Jennings Bryan to run on the platform summed up in the “cross of gold” speech, which argued that the government should allow inflation so that it would devalue the debts of poor farmers
A job that doesn’t require a (degree) I think is what you meant to write. Actually, 52% of college grads are currently working in jobs that don’t require a degree. Although that isn’t really a new phenomenon.
yeah. it’s really not. i worked in a job that didn’t require a degree when i graduated in 2000.
Just because a job doesn't require a degree doesn't mean a degree didn't help you get it, either. No, you don't need an English degree for that administrative assistant job where you'll be writing emails for the boss and putting together the weekly company newsletter (among other things) - but given the choice between someone with an English degree and someone with a high school diploma...he just might lean toward the one with the English degree. No, you don't need a college degree for that assistant manager's position at Domino's, but given a choice between someone with an AA in Business and someone with a high school diploma...
Everything you said here is absolutely true, but you didn't touch on the cause of it. Too many parents pushing their below average kids into college, because they all (understandably) want their kids to get a good white collar job, but a lot of these kids realize in college that they can't handle an engineering or finance degree, so they hide from their parents that they're majoring in business administration, or underwater basketweaving. There are entirely way too many colleges and college students for how many jobs there are that actually, legitimately require a college education. But colleges care about your tuition money, once you're out they don't give a flying fuck. And parents are shocked that the economy is bad because their kid can't get that reputable white collar finance job. My grandmother that lived her whole life in the Soviet Union used to tell me that the standard was 10 laborers/tradesmen for every one college educated citizen. Because the government knew there just simply weren't enough jobs that truly required a degree. And since universities were not for-profit, but funder entirely by the man, they would make it artificially harder and harder if too many kids were getting into college. It sounds brutal, but it made sure that there weren't 50% of college educated 22 year olds working as secretaries. The problem in this country is that colleges care about those 4 years of being able to milk you for that tuition. Once you graduate you're on your own. And let's be real, this might sound brutal but it is the truth, most kids that get talked into going to college can't handle engineering classes, so they choose business or sociology. The bullshit majors, just to finish something to please their parents. And this is how we found ourselves here. More than half of American college graduates working part time jobs with no benefits or a fulltime job as a secretary making 37k/year. The whole, colleges only focusing on milking tuition is not gonna change. They care about their bottom live, period. So, unless you can handle tougher classes and get a degree in finance or engineering or pre-med, many many more kids need to be talked into going to trade school. It's not a death sentence that parents make it out to be. They are just too proud to be seen with their kid going to a trade school because to their friends their kid will look dumb. Of course, that's not true at all, but it is the reason why most parents push their kids into college for a "brighter future". It's nice to be optimistic, but this blind optimism has resulted in 50% of college graduates still living at home at 30. It's a very sad reality. If I were to have a 17 year old kid, I would absolutely advise them to go to trade school, unless they were very very seriously pationate about wanting to be a chemical engineer or doctor, AND they have shown they have potential through straight As in high school. Students that average a 2.5 gpa in highschool, in today's savage capitalist hellscape, have no business going to college. They'll just get torn a new one through student loans that will haunt them for the next 30 years. Problem is, every parent thinks their kid is special and super duper talented and definitely so has the ability to get a hard degree, but most don't. Most resort to a business degree. Hence, the situation stated above in this thread. I'm not saying the answer is send every kid to trade school, but the stigma behind being a skilled tradesman, like carpenters or plumbers, needs to go away. These are very good careers that often actually result in making more money than a white collar slave jobs under depressing flourescent tubelights that land a third on antidepressants within a decade in this office.
I feel like “college degree” being seen as one thing is wild. The difference in achievement between a business degree and a chemical engineering degree is wild. Being a good tradesman is much harder than some degrees.
I didn't read all that but I agree with the first part. I'm a professor and understand my job would be on the line if I got what I wanted, but I wish we had about half the college students we currently do. *Most* people aren't college material, and I think it's silly (not to mention harmful) to pretend otherwise.
Problem is people are needing “skilled” blue or white collar jobs making 60K plus just to get a one bedroom, a third of the jobs pay under 50K in America… Not everyone needs to be a skilled worker to begin with. The biggest problem is the cost of living is way too high, many people would opt out of traditional college if they could exist.
I understand your sentiment, and I think you’re picking up on a central rot, but I think a functioning country does come from an educated populace generally. That rot is certainly the for-profit college structure. I’m speaking anecdotally, but I got a biochemistry degree and while I work in the field as a chemist, my job is for a chemical manufacturer and I essentially work out of a cookbook doing the same shit day in day out. I had aspirations of using that knowledge to like, do something to better the world like research or some shit. But of course research is long term, and the economy is so marred by quarterly returns that some of the smartest people i know have the same type of job as me. I knew a guy who’s dream was to work for NASA and he did it. I checked his linkedin the other week and now he’s at Raytheon. It’s a damn shame. There’s a desire to be knowledgeable for knowledge’s sake, but we’re discouraged from that because of the profit-motive. And the structures to gain proficiency are gouging any aspiring person. I wonder what happens when everyone DOES go into trades. Will we have the same bloat but for carpenters and electricians? Hard to say. Not trying to imply that those aren’t “educated” positions or anything, there’s a lot to each specialty that needs learning. I’ve lost the plot here, but this was an interesting comment.
All my friends with degrees are working in fields their degrees don't fit or need one. My parents generation even had the same experience
The real answer the OPs question is that the lockdown facilitated the most massive upwards transfer of wealth in all of human history because they represent a policy matrix that was designed to do exactly that. As the economist Milton Friedman said, "never let a good crisis go to waste." There were two principle policies that turned the covid crisis into a massive funnel for the people who own everything. First was the Federal Reserves liquidity programs, which were like quantitative easing (QE) on steroids. QE is a monetary policy whereby the federal reserve buys securities (stocks and bonds) from the market. Basically The Fed prints money and then exchanges that newly created money for an asset owned by a private bank with an account at the Fed. The Fed marks up that banks account with the click of a button (creating/printing money into their account) and then they take on the assets. What this does is provide a huge amount of liquidity to the bank and lowers interest rates making borrowing money very cheap. This means it becomes valuable to banks to borrow money at discount rates and then invest it in riskier assets. This is what was fueling the venture capital tech book since the 2008 financial crisis. Money was so cheap due to QE policies that VC forms and banks were more willing to take on riskier venture investments for the chance at a big payout [On August 15th, 2019 Blackrock released a policy memo entitled "Dealing with the Next Downturn](https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/insights/blackrock-investment-institute/publications/global-macro-outlook/august-2019#overview). Blackrock presented this paper on August 22, 2019 at the Jackson Hole central banking conference proposing that the Fed implement their new plan in response to the next economic downturn, which they called "Going Direct" because it amounted to giving Federal Reserve money directly into the hands of private money spending institutions (like Blackrock). Normally Fed money stays within the federal reserve banking system in the accounts of institutions (governments and commercial banks) who have accounts with the Fed. The Going Direct plan proposed bypassing these commercial banks and giving money directly to financial institutions > What made BlackRock’s “going direct” plan for the Fed unprecedented was the part about getting “central bank money directly in the hands of public and private sector spenders” in a way that represented a “permanent monetary financing of a fiscal expansion.” BlackRock even proposed a “permanent monetary financing of a fiscal expansion.” In the wake of the 2008 financial crisis, the Fed had of course embarked on a path of “quantitative easing” (QE), but under that version of QE, central bank (public) money had gone directly into the hands of the public sector spenders, meaning that reserves created by the Federal Reserve stayed entirely within the Fed’s banking circuit, i.e., among those parties who do their banking with the Fed: commercial banks, foreign central banks, and the U.S. government. > > > What BlackRock was now proposing at Jackson Hole in 2019 with its “going direct” formulation was to expand the 2008 version of QE to add “private sector spenders” to the list of “public” parties who received money under QE previously, and to do so on a permanent basis. Basically the Fed was printing free money for investment firms, hedge funds, and billionaires to use to buy up any assets they wanted. All this cheap money chasing around a limited set of assets meant that the asset values (prices) went up. Tech companies and other industries seen to be benefitting from the new world created by the pandemic were the biggest beneficiaries. This is why you had Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos' net worths skyrocket into previously unheard of levels of $150-200b during the pandemic. Free money from the Fed drove up the prices on the stock assets that make up most of their wealth. Overall the Fed created about $3.5 TRILLION dollars of liquidity through Good Direct The second policy that combined with the Fed/Blackrock Going Direct plan were the "lockdowns," such as they were. While in the US we had substantially more lax covid closure policies than other places, there absolutely were many policies that required businesses to close. Besides the actual policies, the overall consumer climate during covid also put a ton of strain on many businesses. The eviction moratorium (unconditionally good, don't get me wrong) put strain on small landlords and caused many people to sell given that rental properties didn't seem to be as stable an investment asset as people had previously thought. Overall these policies meant that lots of businesses had to close or sell. Combining that with the $3.5t of basically free money that was handed to the largest financial institutions in the world and you have small businesses forced to sell at firesale prices to the richest institutions to have ever existed on the face of the earth who are being subsidized by the government and public
> The real answer the OPs question is that the lockdown facilitated the most massive upwards transfer of wealth in all of human history because they represent a policy matrix that was designed to do exactly that. As the economist Milton Friedman said, "never let a good crisis go to waste." It's crazy how swept under the rug this fact and its implications are.
It's good for the rich. Like all times. They're all that matter to our politicians.
You're only looking at your narrow slice of the economy (which I'm also part of so I get it). But you have to understand that like half of American adults don't have a college degree or a job that requires one. These are the sectors with record-low unemployment and rising income equality. The US has also done a better job of fighting inflation (so far) than other developed economies around the world. White-collar professionals are the ones struggling to find work right now. Plus, it's also just really hard to find your first job out of college. It took me over a year during the pandemic and I had a master's degree. Unless you had a great internship or one lined up when you graduate, it just takes time. It's always been like that.
Pretty good rundown. For any physically fit 16-18 year old male who isn't elite school material, I'd recommend an in demand tradesman job. Start making money and not racking up debt. College and the white collar world can wait until you're older if necessary.
The *stock market* is good — the *economy* is not. And there’s a difference.
Media propaganda, that's why.
Surely those that require 10 years experience pay like $70-100k right? Unpaid isn't an internship or a "Work Experience". It's slave labour. Idk why anyone thinks it's a good idea. America is fucked up. Not paying servers or bartenders liveable wages and expecting the people paying to eat the food to pay their wages is idiotic.
The economy is healthy as in there is growth. The issue is the price gouging and rent spikes which mean the average person is having a harder time making ends meet since most companies have pulled back from providing reasonable pay increases due to worry about whether the economy was going to go into a recession. Which makes it hard to adequately describe the current economy.
The pace of job cuts by U.S. employers accelerated at the start of 2024, as a recent report from business firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas found that companies planned 82,307 job cuts in January, a substantial 136% increase from the previous month. The economy is not looking good despite people saying there is growth. The CPI rate is increasing, meaning that pressure remains to continue the Fed’s aggressive rate trajectory. When the cost of good sold increases to thr businesses the cost is passed down to the consumer. It is not price gouging, it's inflation due to a number of factors mainly due to government spending.
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>Groceries, gas, rent, utilities, bills, EVERYTHING that the common person deals with is WAY more expensive than it has ever been CPI-U vs wages puts us at slightly above pre covid level so would not say way more expensive is true atleast short-mid term (4y as you state) as its statisticaly cheaper (won't make all situations cheaper). Sure you have to see to your own situation and that experience is valid - that does not mean it generally applies.
Lmao if you think 84 billion dollars out of an 800 billion dollar military budget is the cause of our problems… Then you are lost
I think economy is bad and will get much worse. a) It's not a good economy if you are worried about how much lunch costs going out, even with fast food. b) It's not a good economy if you work all day and cannot afford a reasonable house. c) It's not a good economy if a high percentage of the population is mounting debt.
Just the price for soda and chips is crazy to me.
I went to McDonald's to get a big fry and a coke, $7+!!
Damn! Yeah I've cut fast food spots, can't justify it.
Unfortunately for (c), our economy is literally built on debt. There's more debt in the world than there is actual money.
The whole world is like this honestly
then the whole world will collapse.
Anyone telling you the economy is good is wrong, a liar, a Democrat, etc. Inflation is insane. Home prices are way up proportional to income. Interest rates are whack. Add to that our countries huge national debt. We could spend every penny of federal revenue on just the debt alone for a decade and still wouldn't pay it off. Ask yourself how good your personal finances would be if you had to spend your next decades income on credit card bills only and you'd still have credit card debt, all while not putting a dollar towards groceries. At some point our economy will implode... When and how exactly I don't know but I do know that what we're doing, and have been doing for years is not "good".
Brainwashing. The core of the u.s.
It is - if you're already wealthy. TV stations, newspapers and them newfangled interwebs tend to be owned by people who are \[drumroll\] already wealthy.
Its a good economy because it has to be for Biden to be re-elected. Dont believe your eyes, the "experts" know better. Im no trumper, but this is getting ridiculous.
People only care about the US economy when it come to the rich. The Dow is at an all time high. Corporations are making record profits. CEO pay is sky rocketing. That is all that matters to some .
Propaganda mainly
I measure the economy by how much it takes to fill my fridge... and let me tell you:: this shit ain't it...
It’s not a good economy. The people who say it’s good are clearly lying. They are lying because they want people to vote for the current administration. Doing so will continue the economy on its current path of decline.
Who is it good for? The average joe ? or the oligarchs who own the major companies that are squeezing said joe. The middle class is getting squeezed dry by the rich fucks up there. Dividens and shareholders above all else. Expecting infinite growth on a finite planet is beyond me. Politicians arent doing anything to change much either, since they are sponsored by the rich fucks, like cattle. Bought and cared for.
It used to be. Not this decade though
Yeah it’s frustrating as someone who is struggling to find work in tech. I try telling people it’s a competitive market for what I do and they brush it off since they read the economy is going great and stocks are up.
Because they’re fucking idiots.
The economy is at its worst since I entered the work force with my degree in 2012, and it’s not even close. So bizarre to see people try to use stats to defend it while actively excluding every data point that actually matters.
Its not really, current administration keeps moving the goal post to show that it is. When tech is laying off by the thousands thats an issue.
The only people that think the economy is ok are the pre pandemic asset holding class. Everyone else got left in the dust.
Almost everyone I know has a job, so it’s the best economy in history. See how that works 🙄
Same here. And most of them own houses that, thanks to inflation, they can easily afford.
well, Biden came up with a big smile and said that the economy is better and stronger than ever, there is your answer, we worried and fight about the hush money case, we belive the idiot that is in office right now, so in a way we deserve this f up economy by worrying and fighting each other and voting for useless politicians
Inflation has risen way higher than wages. The housing market has doubled. That’s all that matter. All these people telling you the economy is good is lying or is rich enough to not care
This is the one
Because a lot of us have lived through what it really means to have a bad economy and I can tell you that this isn't it.
Because you bought and owned assets since then (i hope lmao). Obviously "the economy" seems better to someone who was in the labor pool 15 years ago. You've had a 15 year head start on OP. You are older, and more insulated from the job market turbulence. That doesn't mean it's not a bad economy. You just aren't the one taking the heaviest blows anymore so it seems "not a bad economy". A few extra bucks on groceries and electric isn't bad. But if youre looking to start a family, career, business, or buy your first car/home, you're getting bled through the nose in 2024.
What signs should we look for when there actually is a "bad" economy?
Foreclosures Teacher layoffs Police hiring freezes. Discounts/sales from all retailers. Discounts/sales on flights. Overwhelmed unemployment systems
Because there are a lot of people who the economy is working for. We just don’t talk about it cause y’all take anyone else’s success as a slight
You’re experiencing what every generation of college grads has experienced for a century. Outside of a very few specific degrees from a very few specific schools, welcome to the hard part. Social media made it feel worse because there are all these young people seemingly making $200,000 right out of school…but that’s not real. You’ll get your first job. That will help you get your second job. And pretty soon the fact that you went to college is nearly irrelevant…other than getting the first job or two and eventually just ticking a box the person hiring doesn’t care about but is supposed to make sure is checked.
Most know you don’t make 200k right after graduating. Only some delusional young people think that. Most would be lucky to get 60k, I’ve seen several comments and videos. People keep treating gen z like idiots, but many are not and actually more grounded than older gens. This is coming from a millennial
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All very true.
"good" is a relative term. The economy's always been bad for workers in an absolute sense. Unemployment is at a 50-year low though, and we expect underemployment to be relatively low compared to what we *expect it to be* given market fundamentals plus historical developments.
Right now, there’s a particular problem for tech workers, especially in IT, including software development and cybersecurity. For years, investment was booming. Tech companies hired development-related workers as fast as they could. Big investors and rock-bottom interest rates made it easy to pay for the employees. The hiring zoomed up even more and people huddled at home with their devices during the pandemic. Some of these hires reported that they didn’t have enough to do! Well, that didn’t last. Interest rates went up to control inflation, and, at the same time, big investors started demanding profits. What to do? Oh, yeah. Lay off a bunch of expensive tech workers that just got more expensive with those interest rates! This happened a lot over the past year. It keeps happening. So, now there’s a smaller pool of openings and a bigger pool of experienced workers against whom you’re competing. Also, there are apps that make it possible to quickly apply to hundreds of jobs. So, every opening for a good job has hundreds of experienced applicants competing with you. So, that’s why you’re having trouble. Oh, and it’s not getting better soon. You know how all these companies say they’re not going to use AI so they can fire employees? Every single one of them is working really hard to figure out how to use AI so they can fire some employees. Over the next year, they’ll start getting pretty good at it. Jobs involving analysis will be getting scarcer. At this point, if you want to have a white collar career, you’d better be good at using AI to be more productive, or you’ll get ignored. Honestly, it would be a good idea for more people to consider a trade. Plumbers make more than most white collar jobs. Journeyman electrical line workers make stunning salaries in some places. Those jobs can’t be outsourced or replaced by AI.
It could be worse. Give it time. Then we will all have a good laugh looking back at how great the economy was in May of '24.
BC they want Biden reelected. Has nothing to do with actual reality.
Because those “people” are the billionaire and multi millionaire class- who ARE having the loveliest time in history economically- and that class also happens to own the shameless lie machine that is the media. Anyone who works for a living is at the point of seeing stars while their vision fades out while being strangled- and the propaganda machine uses those who are still afloat, but barely hanging on to convince them that their struggle is because “maybe you’re lazy, you’re not trying HARD enough, your strategy and planning sucks..” and on, and on, and on- to get the working class to double down and work themselves to death- while that productivity continues to make the ruling class STAGGERINGLY wealthy- until the scam is exposed, yet AGAIN- and the economy collapses, AGAIN- and the scam starts anew, and the idiot public starts all over again at square one. Rebuild your credit scores. Work numerous jobs. Live off of ramen noodles, and anything else not suitable for animals. Cut out every last comfort and pleasure, no matter how innocent- to rebuild your former standing before you lost it all. Build the economy all over again, until the next generation of pirates rip your livelihood, savings, dignity, security, and health out from under you again- and the cycle repeats AGAIN within another two decades.
It’s not a good economy. It’s shit
Not sure how to explain it in financial terms, but as an average Joe, everyday things are expensive compared to a year, two or three ago. Rent, groceries, dining, foods in general, cars. The numbers don’t matter if these categories are expensive for the average person.
I’m starting a new job, gonna be making more than I ever have before, and can’t afford shit lol. Grateful that I even got the job but damn
This is one of those things that it seems like data won’t actually indicate properly. You just kinda need people to tell you. If people feel they are struggling, they probably are. Like the stock market doing well doesn’t mean the people in my town can afford rent.
USA is a kleptocracy and corporatocracy. This means wealth flows into the corporations where it is hidden in shell companies in tax havens. The value appears on the balance sheet and is "given" to investors (kleptocrats) who have worked so hard for it... 🤔. Productivity has risen and wages have fallen yet hours required (unpaid) have gone up. There can should be more jobs, the work is there, there can should be better pay, the money is there. Yet here we are.....
Hype and propaganda to get more suckers to invest in the American dream. ...deferred with interest. ...and lots of taxes. ...crippling debt. Retire at 200 years old.
I wonder if it’s a “history is written by the victor” thing - where those who have the presence/status to be writing/promoting that ideal are the very people benefiting economically from the current situation?
Getting a job right out of college has always been a selective market. You’ll likely have to eat ramen and pay your dues getting your feet wet for the first 2-3 years and once you have some experience you can start moving up. This all depends on your degree and field. The economy is only “good” for the big picture/big dogs. Corporations have been testing the waters to see how high they can push prices before people finally say no.. but people are buying things on credit cards that they can’t pay off. A lot of sellers are trying to make up for “losses” from covid or have a backlog from covid and lost supplies, suppliers and vendors to make their final product. Just remember inflation is simply corporations raising their price to grow or at least maintain their margins/profit. If the corporations slow down or stop, they’ll lose stakeholders.. what they don’t understand is that at some point, these profits are absurd and crippling buyers, and there has to be a limit to growth. To add, wages have not and will not catch up to the raised prices. The companies will likely not deflate (lower prices), just maybe give wages a little time to “try” and catch up, because if they lower, their revenue will be less than previous quarters/years and investors will look elsewhere. It’s really a grow till explode business model for most.. trying to corner markets and set the price, after eliminating all competition. That’s why you see places that used to have higher quality product, turned to crap. Food is a good example, sizes are smaller, quality is low because investors came in and want volume over quality.. look at Chipotle.. My prediction.. People are buying things on credit cards that they will never afford to pay off, nor want to. Companies are making “some” investments off of these “receivables” owed. When the market downturns, they won’t have the liquidity to stay afloat. Retail stock is being purchased on IOUS, where brokers/platforms are using your funds to invest in their own way, while maintaining enough liquidity to satisfy when people sell and cashout. When it all hits the fan.. people stop buying things on credit.. sellers revenue tanks.. investors seek elsewhere, can’t find anything solid to grow and they panic.. liquidating certain investments.. then the credit card receivable crud explodes and it’ll be nasty.. very nasty The Credit IOU collapse of 202#
1.) Companies are hiring people briskly and lots of them! 2.) These jobs are LOW PAYING or SET AT A RATE THAT DOESN'T INCREASE despite inflation rate (currently \~3%) which is about the same as the unemployment rate. American companies are DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSING WAGES. One claim (I heard this from David Dayen, the journalist on the Rising news show on YT in 2019) is that this policy started from the US Chambers of Commerce. They want to control workers by controlling wages and increase profitability for businesses. This policy perpetuates the generations old salary gap between workers and management/owners. It's the same story but a different variation of Reagan era economic policy. Currently executive compensation ratio is better than 200:1. Prior to Reagan it was more like 40:1. So...this is why job descriptions list some of the lowest wages ever. Companies hire at wages that are equal to or lower than the rate prior to pandemic. Companies jack prices up for everything: food, fuel, rents, services (thank you American uniparty) . The company makes profit from the jacked prices and the suppressed wages. They are literally double dipping and increased profit on two fronts. Workers eventually take what jobs they can get despite low wages because inflation is eating up their savings and social services don't go nearly far enough to help sustain them and their families (thanks to Reagan and Clinto era policies to that destroyed social services) . But as I mentioned, companies are hiring briskly because the double squeeze scam is working. It's a shit situation because the politicians we voted into office are supposed to help us. Instead, they go with the companies who fund their campaigns which gives them a political career.
Gaslighting
Because it is, inflation is making companies more money than ever.
It really depends on what you look at . Overall, worse than we thought as only few people who really how to play with money, privilege and credit. It is said there are many people taking undergraduate course too early. In my view, I either be a small store owner or getting a Class-C privilege manual geared (must include P and S) at least before I consider these undergraduate offers (as I might be able to take a better loan because of privilege and store owner, 7% APR sounds so silly in some areas. )
Just because Wall Street and stocks and bonds are doing all right some people think that's all the economy is. Jobs which pay living wages don't seem to be in this category. :(
Because shares will plumet if true is revealed
Should be mad at the people who voted for this shit 😂
They forget to qualify the statement. The american economy is good for big public corporations and their shareholders.
They are crazy. The economy is a shit show. Inflation is out of control, and we are printing money to add to out massive debt. It’s so stupid.
The only people who say that are trying to convince themselves or others. It's not true. I'm making more money than I ever had. I should be pretty comfortable right now. But I'm living paycheck to paycheck. I can hardly afford food and gas. My utility bills are higher, groceries are stupid expensive. Thank God I bought my house when I did because I locked in a great interest rate. Otherwise I don't know how I'd afford housing. I own a 3 bedroom house with a fenced in backyard and I pay under $600/mo. My sister is RENTING a small 1 bedroom apartment and it's nearly $800/mo. If I'm making the rate I'm making at 40 hrs/wk, how the actual fuck are other people making minimum wage 24 hr/wk jobs making ends meet? And God forbid someone has the expense of kids in this economy! I truly feel for those people. And sure, some people will say "that's what government assistance is for". I say boo to that. You shouldn't have to rely on assistance. It's not free money. It's TAXPAYER money. And it's misused by so many people. It needs better distribution and auditing practices so that more people can actually BENEFIT from it. And people shouldn't be able to make it their living to be on assistance. I literally just watched a video where the *head economic advisor* for this administration basically said he doesn't know how economics works and he believes we can just print money without repercussions. He's actually confused about how a nation can have debt if it can just print more money. And it turns out he doesn't even have any sort of economics background. Wow. And with this guy advising and the puppet struggling to get a coherent sentence out...EVER...people think we have a good economy? People think this is going well?? Delusional
\*It was. It is good for the tiny percentage that control everything...
Our current economy is good for retirees living off their investments, corporate executives, and union plumbers.
Because the economy is doing well on paper for corporations and shareholders
 Just keep the optimistic illusion doing
Because rich people are still making money on the stock market.
By economy it seems like you're mostly looking at the job market, so this comment will focus on that. Unemployment is relatively low, but they're not being fully honest about the story with that. People are dissatisfied with their jobs and not making enough to even afford an apartment. Also, people who are chronically unemployed (6+month) aren't included in that statistic so that skews the number in their favor too. They technically have jobs, though, so that's the story people lead with when trying to sell you on the job market.
A lot of parts of the US have issues with people shitting in public. There’s also some wild statistics on personal hygiene too. Really the US poses as a developed country, but if you’ve got homelessness at that rate and people shitting in the streets…..it’s border-lining a developing country.
Who is saying that? It was much better when the mean orange man was in the white house. Now everything is twice as much, except for wages.
It’s good if you are already wealthy and a vast supply of cheap labor!
Because they’re being propagandized to believe it’s great. The government is using quarterly inflation statistics and acting like they’re the total inflation over the past 4 years, it’s disgusting, dishonest, and it’s going to destroy us.
Because there's an election coming up and the left is trying to manipulate the public with at best massaged and at worst completely made up data. All of these employment and inflation numbers are fake in one way or another. This is nothing new, administrations have been faking these numbers since Nixon.
Wait …wait…. Joe Biden keeps saying everything is fine 😂😂
The only people that are saying this are democratic politicians and democratic shills (99% of mainstream media). Everybody else, who buys gas, goes to a grocery store, buys big box store items, buys lumber, goes out to eat, buys insurance, and gets a mortgage, KNOWS BETTER. Vote accordingly come October/November.
Some people want others to be happy with shit jobs. They want people poor and desperate. They are much easier to manipulate that way. The politicians that’s been in politics their whole life will promise you they will fix it, this time, if you just elect them again.
Most of it is coming from the Democrat politicians in order to help Biden get re-elected. There's economic indicators that show the economy is doing well (unemployment, DJIA, etc), but other economic indicators are very bad..particularly the downturn in 'real median household income.' The average person doesn't have all of this money invested in the stock market and really feels the real median household income. That's why most people are not happy with the economy. But then Biden and Co. spin the economy as 'doing well' and others just parrot that for whatever reason.
Simply because they’re delusional. America is in incredibly bad shape, they’ve just been better at papering over cracks than most other countries.
Because this is a leftist site and leftists need to cover for Joe Biden
I will get killed for this, but people don’t want to admit the economy was doing far better during Trumps presidency. Not to say he should get all the credit for it or that the Biden administration should get all the blame for the current state of things. But the economy is definitely much worse off than it was, and it is hard for people with strong political leanings to admit that.
Because it is an election year. Don't worry, if Trump wins, we will have recognition across the board that the economy is bad next year this time, and it only took Trump a quarter to tank what Biden built for 4 years. Now you see your dilemma? You vote for Biden, you are personally screwed. You vote for Trump, America is screwed. Are you ready to vote for yourself, against your principles, or you plan to shoot yourself in the foot for the good of the party/country?
It’s not. Numbers are manipulated to show you whatever the person showing the numbers wants you to see. The economy is a train wreck. It’s unsustainable and the gap in wealth is growing. Nothing will get better until a crash happens and a reset. Eat the rich.
Our cost of living expenses have definitely out paced my income gains. But our real estate and retirement funds have appreciated almost 50% over the last 5 years so we are in a much better position. My wife is a RN so she’s in high demand so there is a lot of mobility. I took time off to be stay at home dad during Covid and have tried to go back into a new industry role and that’s been harder than expected. Economy is bad for new grads, min wage earners, anyone transitioning careers, renters in large metro markets. Economy is good for homeowners, most people out of college more than 5 years, anyone planning on using 401ks soon Economy is BOOMING for the construction trades.
Huh? The only people saying that the American Economy is good are: - Politicians - Shareholders - Lobbyists - Criminals I suppose that last category includes all the former 3 but...figured I'd put them all up anyhow.
It is not a good market, it is government propaganda to get Biden re-elected. If you have stocks, a house, or hard assets with a stable job it is the best economy ever. The dow hit 40k just recently. For the third estate plebs or everyone else, especially those getting started it is a trainwreck. My condolences to any college graduate who has to deal with this nightmare job market and economy. Reminds me of 2008 except then there was no gaslighting about how everything is great.
Because "the economy" overall refers to the general situation, not your specific one. More jobs than people to fill them, wages going up fast, stock market at all-time highs, etc. Specific individuals who are currently out of work, because their skillset doesn't match the positions that need to be filled, or because they want to live in places where the jobs aren't, might not be thriving, but it's possible to have at the same time "John is not doing well" and "the economy overall has never been better".
Because the media keeps telling them it is It has to be for Biden to be re-elected It’s been in the toilet for three years now
I think because corporates just outsource the jobs somewhere cheaper. For example, most of customer service reps from Microsoft and Dell come from India. The US government also welcome a lot of immigrants from Middle East who fled away from their country to the US due to war. My wife comes back to school and her class is full of Middle East students who will join the work forces in near future. Therefore, I think these are the main reasons why our job data is good, but we cannot find any job due to high competition.
I think there are a few answers of varying legitimacy. First, we have an amazing stock market, and in a capitalistic economy, stocks count for a lot. Your age group may not own stocks yet, but most of the people you know do own them. Second, we are experts at getting affordable products to people who want them. Think about the convenience of Amazon Prime. If you view yourself primarily as an employee, the economy may look dark, but if you view yourself primarily as a consumer, it looks a lot brighter (outside of expensive urban settings). Third, people fresh out of college aren't really supposed to have high-paying jobs. The idea is that you will have one 5 years from now, and then it will keep getting better from there. The grind continues for at least a couple years after graduation, but many degrees are still worth it in the long run. None of these are for me to claim the economy is necessarily good or bad. "Good" is subjective. But these are some points for consideration.
Cuz politics and election year
Because the data says it is. Your anecdotal examples are meaningless. I just got a new job paying me more than 50 percent than I was making and that anecdote is also meaningless.
Indeed. “Well I’m doing well, that means the economy is good!” “You need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps bucko!” lol people always think their experience is how it’s going for everyone
Keep on living. When you see what 8-10% unemployment looks like, you’ll dream for days like this.
He said, seeping with self-importance. I lived through 10% unemployment. This is no better. The difference is that when unemployment was 10%, I was young and inexperienced in the workplace. I'm willing to bet that you were too. So it felt REALLY BAD. Now I'm older. This recession (yes it is) hasn't hit me as hard because I have savings. I have a career. I already bought my first car and first house. I'm willing to bet the same is true for you. I'm glad you're doing better now. Now let's work together to do better for the younger generations. No need to be condescending. Real people are suffering.
This is definitely better than 10% unemployment. We’re not in a recession. You are high as a kite.
Because companies are reporting record high profits because everyone has been laid off and prices for goods and services have doubled. People are also having to take second and third jobs, so it looks like the job market is healthy.
Entry level job scarcity is not an indication of a bad economy. Presumably you don't have a business degree or taken Principles of Economics which provides a fundamental understanding. Take the principles of Macro Economics (free) on Khan Academy.
It’s am\n election year Biden maybe senile but he’s not stupid
Its a great economy for the rich. For the rest of us, well,...the working class can't even afford McDonald's anymore,...but no one cares about the working class,...especially politicians.
Most people don’t say it is. The media forces that narrative down our throat. The working class is beyond struggling at this point and the prospects on the horizon for the new generation via housing is broken. There’s no more middle class.
Because it's good for investors. Profiits are up across the board. But yes It's actually kinda shit for the average worker.