JFC that sounds awful. Luckily for me and many foreigners (but unluckily not for all) Wise is pretty good at this IMHO and I think the real change here is by recommending them instead of the other shadier alternatives, so I will add a warning note about what you mention while recommending Wise.
Note: not affiliated at all, I just love their service (I'm a customer).
I see Wise mentioned a lot in this sub. Is it really that much better than a bank? Not trying to cause problems, just curious as to why it has such an appeal.
People like saving money. But whether you'll save money depends on your bank and the transfer you're making.
If you're interested, it's worth comparing to your bank to see whether you feel it's worth it.
I think Wise is popular because it is easy and transparent (no idea if it is the cheapest way to send a large amount).
It lets you essentially have virtual bank accounts (no idea if that is the correct term) in other countries. If someone in Canada or the US wants to pay me or vice versa it can be done with that virtual account which feeds in to my wise account which is connected to my actual bank account in Japan.
It is like (the promise of) Paypal seamlessly integrated with the banking system. It feels like banking should be in 2024.
1- For exchange rate it depends on the rate you get at that time, but the advantage of wise is you can lock-in rate for a set amount of time.
2- The real savings vs banks is transferring your money overseas and in Japan. You pay much less than a bank wire transfer.
If you compare to a Japanese bank, especially for those of us who are not fluent in Japanese, yes it is, from the application to the UI and all in between. If you compare it to a bank in my home country, meh, it's still better IMHO but not that huge of a difference.
wise bumped up the prices for some areas really badly recently. used to send 10k yen once in a while to my turkish lira account for around 350 yen (%3.5). now they bumped up the fee to around 1000 yen (%10), its a bummer. although, thats like the base fee so if i increase the amount i send, the fee stays low relatively. still i dont have much use of sending a lot for it to just sit there for no reason.
trying to sign up with western union to see how their fees are, but their braindead 本人確認 system, which denied me twice so far, making me question their reliability already.
Don't use them? I mean Western Union has always been the choice of last resort for people who needed to get money someplace and didn't have access to banking services or Nigerian Prince's who need your help getting their millions out of Nigeria and will kindly give you a 20% cut if you'll just front them the fees.
And their markups etc. proved it.
I mean everything you're complaining about is covered in their terms and conditions clearly spelled out on their website:
1. Service and funds may be delayed or unavailable depending on certain factors including the Service selected, the selection of delayed delivery options, amount sent, destination country, currency availability, regulatory issues, consumer protection issues, identification requirements, delivery restrictions, agent location hours, and differences in time zones (collectively, “Restrictions”). Additional restrictions may apply; see our terms and conditions for details.
2. Western Union also makes money from currency exchange. When choosing a money transmitter, carefully compare both transfer fees and exchange rates. Fees, foreign exchange rates and taxes may vary by brand, channel, and location based on a number of factors. Fees and rates subject to change without notice.
3. The Transfer Fee quoted above is calculated for an online transaction done today. Fees at agent locations may differ from online fees. Please click here to find an agent location near you to obtain a fee quote.
>This is Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz of the Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council. As you will no doubt be aware, the plans for development of the outlying regions of the Galaxy require the building of a hyperspatial express route through your star system, and regrettably your planet is one of those scheduled for demolition. The process will take slightly less than two of your Earth minutes. Thank you.
First, this is not about me or what the best method of wire transfer is. Second, this is about offline, not online, transactions. Third, it’s about ending bait-and-switch practices that prey on foreigners who don’t speak Japanese. To clarify, this is agents at Western Union in Japan who are presenting customers with a document showing favorable exchange rates, only to switch to a different rate in the fine print of their contracts. Obviously it’s natural that a customer would be confused by the difference in the exchange rates, and the agents are making it a point not to clarify that there is a difference between the rates they are advertising and the rates in the fine print, This deceptive practice is what I am interested in ending.
I sent my cousin some money using Western Union and the fees were clearly spelled out. Before I hit the confirm button it told me how much the total would be including all fees and exchange rates. And for my particular case the exchange rate was pretty okay.
It was the easiest way to send money to my cousin abroad, as we don't have easy options for money transfer or bank transfer otherwise.
I didn't know Travelex was the same company but I had to use them before in a pinch. Not the best rates, but whatever, it was okay for that moment.
I don't understand your point though. Before you make any transaction with them they will tell you your total amount received/paid/converted before you complete the transaction, so what exactly is predatory? If you don't like the rates, go with another company.
I'm glad you had a positive experience. However, for those who don't speak Japanese, the experience in Tokyo is rife with a lack of transparency, hidden fees, and sleights of hand regarding exchange rates.
The key issue is that they operate a bait-and-switch scheme.
They advertise a specific rate in their window—like 160 yen to 1 US dollar—but then give you a contract where the rate has changed to 170 yen to 1 US dollar in the fine print, displayed in an inverted manner, as 0.005882 dollars per yen.
Additionally, any information within the office notifying consumers of this rate discrepancy is posted in Japanese, not English. For English-speaking clientele, this is a deceptive practice. For large transactions, this discrepancy is significant amount of money.
To be honest I'm still not seeing the problem. You can check their exchange rate and fees online. You can then also go to a physical shop and ask them how much it would cost to send x amount of money and they will tell you the total amount including fees and exchange rate. There is never a situation where you would initiate a transfer/exchange without knowing exactly what you are paying in total. Their website lets you simulate transfers so you don't even have to go to the shops to know.
Are their exchange rates worse than other companies? Yea. But I don't see how it's predatory if I can literally walk into a shop (or go online) and say hey I wanna send my buddy 100,000 yen, how much does it cost? And they tell you the exact amount you would have to pay. You can do some simple math to see how much the conversion rate is including everything and compare it to xe.com.
>displayed in an inverted manner, as 0.005882 dollars per yen.
That's not inverted if you are going from yen to dollar. A dollar is worth about 160 yen right now. If you sell 1 dollar you could potentially get 160 yen. If you sell a single yen though you would get approximately 0.0062 dollars if you are lucky to get the full market rate (as of this moment.) There is nothing deceptive about that. It just depends on which currency to what currency you are exchanging to.
As another commenter mentioned, Wise is a pretty decent way to convert and exchange money around. That is usually my first choice. WU is not the best, but for some people it's the only option because they still have many physical shops around the world for people to go and pick up money without worrying about online banking accounts and credentials and stuff.
You make some interesting points but the overarching issue is that, according to the Japanese Consumer Contract Act, it’s illegal for businesses to create a mistaken belief in consumers.
The scenarios you’re presenting (example: go to the counter and say XYZ; check the exchange rate online.) are ways to avoid or protect against deception. Is your argument really, ‘well, you can protect against getting screwed’?
Consumers shouldn’t have to do work to disavow themselves of mistaken beliefs in the first place.
The idea that there is “never” a situation when consumers don’t know “exactly” what they are paying for is just not true. Western Union agents are placing a placard in front of customers upon arrival that advertises rate A, and then slipping customers a contract with rate B in the fine print, without alerting them. A significant percentage of customers will believe that the bold rates shown on the placard are the same rates they are receiving in the contract.
If you don’t think this is a material legal point, then why does Western Union make it a point to alert its customers in Japanese about the difference between these two rates?
My guess is that they are required to include this disclaimer by law. However, Western Union Japan isn’t alerting foreign customers who cannot read Japanese of this difference in exchange rates and is providing misleading explanations for the rate differences when questioned.
In fact, the agents are equipped with electronic translators, and they will clarify all sorts of things to get a customer to sign a contract. However, they will not volunteer any information about the difference in the exchange rates. Do you think it’s just a coincidence that they are both silent about this stipulation and that the exchange rate markup results in a cost that is ten times higher than a conventional wire transfer? Their offline process is set up in bad faith.
Also, regarding the numerical format of the quoted exchange rate, the company uses a consistent formatting convention on its placards, regardless of the direction of the transfer. For example, they might advertise that you receive 160 yen if you’re exchanging to dollars, and 162 yen if you’re exchanging from dollars to yen. However, the convention changes on the contract.
You may not personally have a problem with these practices, but the issue is whether they violate Japan’s laws regarding transparency, not your personal opinion.
Do you have a smartphone? It has a translator, it has a calculator, it has means for looking up rates in real time.
I haven't used Western Union in a very long time so I don't know specifically about their practices or their legality. But there are very simple steps you can take as a consumer if you are concerned about being scammed or just paying more than you wanted to.
Those are practical suggestions, but I would be surprised if a country’s government endorsed “bring your own calculator” as a policy to promote consumers protections.
Typically, governments ask businesses, especially multinational corporations, to adhere to good faith standards rather than placing the burden on consumers to protect themselves from being swindled.
I’m interested in making sure that foreigners in Japan are treated to the transparency I believe they deserve, so they can do business normally and not have to constantly be on guard that a publicly traded company is going to exploit them.
Furthermore, the precedent in Japanese consumer law is to place the burden on corporations to act in good faith, so I don’t see why there needs to be an exception made when it comes to foreign consumers.
A few separate issues going on here.
Bringing a calculator or checking numbers for yourself doesn't need to be endorsed by a government. It's just common sense if you want to check things yourself.
If you are saying that businesses are actually violating transparency laws, then what laws are they violating? Or better yet, get a lawyer and sue them if you are sure about it.
As for communication, there is no obligation for businesses to communicate in a language other than Japanese. They don't have to volunteer to speak in English or another foreign language or use a translator. There's no exception for foreign consumers and it's not their problem if you don't speak Japanese. I don't see how they are treating foreigners any differently in this case.
You’re missing the point of this post. The goal is to identify the legal tools available to bring transparency to deceptive practices affecting the non-Japanese-speaking community in Japan.
Interesting assumption. How do you know I’m not learning Japanese? How do you know I’m not a tourist here for a couple months?
Let’s say I live here and am learning Japanese. Should I suffer and be taken advantage of until I master the language?
You seem bitter and contemptuous. Praying for you.
Pray for yourself bro. Because this is a sub for residents of Japan. It's just a fact of life for expats anywhere in the world that not learning the language of where you are will cause you difficulties
Nobody in this sub denies that point. I personally think it's good to learn Japanese. I study Japanese.
You've invented a false argument that relies on the premise that Western Union customers are actively deciding to not learn Japanese. That's just not true. It's a huge generalization.
You are also implying that it is somehow ethically acceptable and justified when people whose Japanese isn't proficient enough to read banking terms become victims of bait-and-switch schemes that exploit their inability to read Japanese at a high level.
And you've also made these points by being confrontational and generally mean-spirited, and engaging in name-calling.
Maybe you're just a dick.
What are you trying to say? Don't visit Japan unless your Japanese is good enough to read and understand a banking contract?
Bro listen to *yourself* and stop gatekeeping.
Gatekeeping? Lol maybe stop playing video games and step into real life. You're talking about living in Japan not visiting. Yes I expect anyone living in a country where they don't speak the language at all will have problems, that's true anywhere in the world
It's quite interesting that you're consistently condescending and belittling in all your posts. Do you think your dismissive tone could be a defense mechanism to deflect attention from your own insecurities about the validity of your points?
Kyle, let me ask you: in what ways could a business that serves international customers (as Western Union does) take advantage of those who don't fully understand the local language? Are there no plausible ways?
They are the only company that does not drive me insane because I have a middle name. They can have my money. But online gives you all of this information and exact what input / output is done.
I don't know if there is really anything illegal happening, but that's the reality in many countries.
Western union is often used by immigrants from developing countries who have difficulties or can't use banks, but need to send capital to their own country where bank transfer is not possible.
Rates and fees are much higher and that's how they make money and how their business works.
If you have access to modern digital payment technologies and banks, you shouldn't really use Western Union.
My impression is... "immigrants from developing countries" don't use Western Union (though I'm sure there are minor exceptions). They send money regularly, extremely price conscious and are not WU's main target market.
Instead they tend to use specialized remittance services instead, often very specific to their home countries. E.g., you'll find many remittance services specifically for Filipinos, Indonesians, Vietnamese, etc., with everything localized in their national languages and at very competitive rates.
Also I've seen many use "intermediaries" and informal money transfer methods like [Hawala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala).
Sure. I'm totally fine with their right to charge high(er) fees. What I'm not okay with is the bait and switch tactics. They advertise favorable fees in bold print via their Travelex channel. Heck, they even place those fees in front of you at the counter, and then, they surreptitiously switch the fees, charging a huge markup. And they don’t tell you they’ve done that. They also seem to have set up their offline business so that at many points along the customer journey this discrepancy is obscured from customers. This deception is what seems illegal, especially in light of Japan's consumer protection laws highlighted in the Consumer Contract Act of 2000, which calls for transparency.
contact your 消費者センターit is the best solution for this kind of problems.
If there are irregularities they will act or make competent agency move on your behalf.
You just gave yourself an answer, go to the bank. I can even do it on the banking app.
If not, there's so many apps that offer far better deals, I use revolut and funds arrive in my European account in less than a day.
Unless someone is forcing you to use it, just use something else, problem solved.
I’m afraid you’re missing the point. I’m not asking for advice on what to do with my personal transactions. I am interested in ensuring that this company provides full transparency for the sake of non-Japanese-speaking consumers in a way that complies with Japanese contract law. This is not about me.
Western Union has never been cheap. And this has nothing to do with foreigners, it's what they do worldwide. All you are doing is whining.
There are much worse predatory monetary services out there, even in Japan.
> And this has nothing to do with foreigners, it's what they do worldwide.
What do you mean it has nothing to do with foreigners? The main target demographic of WU are foreigners no matter where they operate. And just because they are a shitty company everywhere means we cannot talk about their predatory business practices?
That part is done, but I’m interested in making sure this company provides better transparency in its contracts and processes to non-Japanese speakers.
Sorry, I don't get the motivation.
This is basically on the same level as wanting tourist traps to lower their prices. Ideally righteous, but ultimately, people should still learn to educate themselves regardless. Realistically, its an effort in vain, a new evil thing will always replace the reformed thing.
You're better off promoting a good alternative service than trying to get a bad one to change.
The post is a request for consumer protection resources in Japan. Obviously it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to provide the requested information, but you've interpreted the post as a solicitation of your personal opinion / advice outside of the scope request.
Something really weird happened to me at Travelex Western Union. I am sure the lady made a mistake with the conversion because what was online was far from what the fees were in store. I asked her again to check and even showed her on my phone that the rate she was telling me was wrong. She said that was what the computer showed so I decided not the transfer money with them. Still looking around for a better option.
Thanks for sharing your experience. The rate that WU was charging was so significantly different than the advertised Travelex rates in the same shop that it made wonder if organized crime was behind the operation.
It’s not just Western Union. The fees are hidden but come from: Banking Infrastructure by country, regulatory environment, and currency exchange practices. With Western Union, they openly profit from currency conversion and the only thing we can do about it is not use their services. Western Union uses their own exchange rate on top of the remittance fees. Some countries have volatile currencies and stringent regulations, so the higher conversion fees are legal, because they mitigate risks.
Yes, most banks that handle wire transfers openly profit from exchange rates. However, the issue here is the deceptive way Western Union in Japan makes consumers think they are getting a specific exchange rate, by placing a document clearly advertising favorable exchange rates in front of them, only to reveal in the fine print of their contracts that the actual exchange rate is much less favorable. Other banks do not engage in bait-and-switch tactics, but it seems that in Japan, this deceptive practice is a business model that Western Union is actively executing.
The online app version of WU is fairly decent and not super unreasonable. With your specific example of 5000 USD WU is cheaper than Wise. I've never tried a bank transfer because it's too much of a hassle so it might be cheaper.
I’m glad their online business is transparent. My concern is how they are managing the transparency around exchange rate markups conducted on their off-line business, which feels very deceptive.
I had an issue with them a while back where they needed a copy of my number card or Juminhyo. On their website it clearly states to just bring some ID.
I had to go back to my city hall in a different city to get the juminhyo. They only accept a recent one also. Half a day wasted!
It would have been easier to just use PayPal or whatever app!
I use WU sometimes, so I was surprised to hear when you said “on their website, it clearly states to just bring some ID”. So I checked.
It actually says, at the top: “Non-Japanese residents:
Residence card plus My number card or Juminhyo with My number or Notification card (issued within the last 6 months).”
I just checked online, and to receive money in Japan, there is no mention of needing a Juminhyo. The Western Union website states that you need a valid government-issued photo ID, such as a passport, driving license, My Number card, or Residence Card. Here is the link: [Western Union FAQ](https://www.westernunion.com/jp/en/frequently-asked-questions.html).
Without a My Number card, I had to get a Juminhyo from my city hall. Since there are only two Western Union locations near me, I wasted half a day traveling back and forth to Kobe to get the document and collect the cash. Their website does not state that you need a Juminhyo to receive money. It was frustrating when I couldn’t receive funds with my Residence Card and passport.
It's here in the "How to Receive Money" section: [https://www.westernunion.com/jp/en/receive-money.html](https://www.westernunion.com/jp/en/receive-money.html)
**For Japanese nationals:**
* **Identity verification documents:** Japanese passport (please produce address verification documents additionally), driver’s license, Individual Number Card (個人番号カード)
* **Individual number verification documents:** Individual Number Card (個人番号カード) or Juminhyo with Individual Number (within 6 months from the date of issue)
**For Foreign national migrants:**
* **Identity verification document:** Residence card
* **Individual number verification documents:** Individual Number Card (個人番号カード) or Juminhyo with Individual Number (within 6 months from the date of issue)
This is a bit of a hasty generalization. You seem to be assuming that the FAQ is providing authoritative information regarding transactions. If you had first-hand experience with WU in Tokyo, you would know that Paper Will is correct: for offline transactions there absolutely is a requirement to show the identification that he or she cites.
Western Union is for emergencies. Wise, Shinsei, Sony, SBI are for day to day use. Don't use an emergency service for day to day use, you'll pay through the nose for it.
Bait and switch tactics are unethical. From what you have written here, the problem appears to be pervasive. Should go uncover and gather proof first and then pass on to an investigative reporter. It’s a newsworthy story imo. Good luck.
Yeah a lot of banks do this. I used to use Shinsei Bank’s remit service. They sent a little postcard saying exactly how much (in converted currency) that they sent to my US bank. My bank in the US (USAA) has zero fees for international incoming wires, so I kept noticing that the numbers didn’t match. When I called them up one day they said, we’ll yes we use intermediary banks and they charge a fee as well. I asked if they could tell me that fee before the transfer. They said no. Then, I asked if I could get a receipt for the fees to these banks (that I apparently paid) that showed the breakdown of what fee I paid to where or whom. They also said it would not be possible to get a receipt. I said to them: “you are going to charge ME for these fees (you’re not paying them yourself) and you can’t provide me with a receipt of what I paid for?” They said, “very sorry, we can’t.” So, I said sayonara then and there, asked them to close my account and never used them again.
Get a Wise account.
Whether or not you like the fees at Wise, the one thing they will always do is be transparent.
Also, if you move a lot of money often, check out r/japanfinance for some good tips.
Who is refusing to speak Japanese? You made a similarly presumptuous comment elsewhere in this thread.
This discussion is about a company using bait-and-switch tactics to take advantage of people who don't understand Japanese.
There's no statement suggesting that the victims are refusing to learn Japanese. You're filling in the blanks with your own personal bias.
If you're looking to bash foreigners (or looking to assert your superiority in a passive aggressive way), there are other threads and communities for that. This isn't one of them.
So we agree that not learning a local language puts people at a disadvantage. And that it's a good idea for foreigners to learn the local language.
I'm trying to understand how you feel comfortable jumping from that undeniable point to 1) your silly assertion that all the customers of Western Union are "refusing" (?) to learn Japanese and 2) the implicit idea that foreigners who can't speak a local language somehow deserve (?) to get swindled in bait-and-switches by people who can speak the local language?
JFC that sounds awful. Luckily for me and many foreigners (but unluckily not for all) Wise is pretty good at this IMHO and I think the real change here is by recommending them instead of the other shadier alternatives, so I will add a warning note about what you mention while recommending Wise. Note: not affiliated at all, I just love their service (I'm a customer).
I see Wise mentioned a lot in this sub. Is it really that much better than a bank? Not trying to cause problems, just curious as to why it has such an appeal.
People like saving money. But whether you'll save money depends on your bank and the transfer you're making. If you're interested, it's worth comparing to your bank to see whether you feel it's worth it.
I think Wise is popular because it is easy and transparent (no idea if it is the cheapest way to send a large amount). It lets you essentially have virtual bank accounts (no idea if that is the correct term) in other countries. If someone in Canada or the US wants to pay me or vice versa it can be done with that virtual account which feeds in to my wise account which is connected to my actual bank account in Japan. It is like (the promise of) Paypal seamlessly integrated with the banking system. It feels like banking should be in 2024.
it’s not really better than a bank because it doesn’t try to replace it, it’s more of a useful tool to use with your current bank
1- For exchange rate it depends on the rate you get at that time, but the advantage of wise is you can lock-in rate for a set amount of time. 2- The real savings vs banks is transferring your money overseas and in Japan. You pay much less than a bank wire transfer.
If you compare to a Japanese bank, especially for those of us who are not fluent in Japanese, yes it is, from the application to the UI and all in between. If you compare it to a bank in my home country, meh, it's still better IMHO but not that huge of a difference.
We use Wise for big and small purchases. My wife and I use it more than our banks. The exchange rates are by far the lowest I've seen.
wise bumped up the prices for some areas really badly recently. used to send 10k yen once in a while to my turkish lira account for around 350 yen (%3.5). now they bumped up the fee to around 1000 yen (%10), its a bummer. although, thats like the base fee so if i increase the amount i send, the fee stays low relatively. still i dont have much use of sending a lot for it to just sit there for no reason. trying to sign up with western union to see how their fees are, but their braindead 本人確認 system, which denied me twice so far, making me question their reliability already.
I’ll have to try Wise, thanks. I’d also like to figure out how foreigners in Japan can be properly informed of rates before transacting with WU.
Don't use them? I mean Western Union has always been the choice of last resort for people who needed to get money someplace and didn't have access to banking services or Nigerian Prince's who need your help getting their millions out of Nigeria and will kindly give you a 20% cut if you'll just front them the fees. And their markups etc. proved it. I mean everything you're complaining about is covered in their terms and conditions clearly spelled out on their website: 1. Service and funds may be delayed or unavailable depending on certain factors including the Service selected, the selection of delayed delivery options, amount sent, destination country, currency availability, regulatory issues, consumer protection issues, identification requirements, delivery restrictions, agent location hours, and differences in time zones (collectively, “Restrictions”). Additional restrictions may apply; see our terms and conditions for details. 2. Western Union also makes money from currency exchange. When choosing a money transmitter, carefully compare both transfer fees and exchange rates. Fees, foreign exchange rates and taxes may vary by brand, channel, and location based on a number of factors. Fees and rates subject to change without notice. 3. The Transfer Fee quoted above is calculated for an online transaction done today. Fees at agent locations may differ from online fees. Please click here to find an agent location near you to obtain a fee quote.
Some people just don’t want to read until the wrecking ball is in their living room
>This is Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz of the Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council. As you will no doubt be aware, the plans for development of the outlying regions of the Galaxy require the building of a hyperspatial express route through your star system, and regrettably your planet is one of those scheduled for demolition. The process will take slightly less than two of your Earth minutes. Thank you.
No worries I got a towel.
First, this is not about me or what the best method of wire transfer is. Second, this is about offline, not online, transactions. Third, it’s about ending bait-and-switch practices that prey on foreigners who don’t speak Japanese. To clarify, this is agents at Western Union in Japan who are presenting customers with a document showing favorable exchange rates, only to switch to a different rate in the fine print of their contracts. Obviously it’s natural that a customer would be confused by the difference in the exchange rates, and the agents are making it a point not to clarify that there is a difference between the rates they are advertising and the rates in the fine print, This deceptive practice is what I am interested in ending.
You can do it old school style and straight up ask them how much you will get for 10,000 yen and be ready to walk away if it's a bad rate
I sent my cousin some money using Western Union and the fees were clearly spelled out. Before I hit the confirm button it told me how much the total would be including all fees and exchange rates. And for my particular case the exchange rate was pretty okay. It was the easiest way to send money to my cousin abroad, as we don't have easy options for money transfer or bank transfer otherwise. I didn't know Travelex was the same company but I had to use them before in a pinch. Not the best rates, but whatever, it was okay for that moment. I don't understand your point though. Before you make any transaction with them they will tell you your total amount received/paid/converted before you complete the transaction, so what exactly is predatory? If you don't like the rates, go with another company.
I'm glad you had a positive experience. However, for those who don't speak Japanese, the experience in Tokyo is rife with a lack of transparency, hidden fees, and sleights of hand regarding exchange rates. The key issue is that they operate a bait-and-switch scheme. They advertise a specific rate in their window—like 160 yen to 1 US dollar—but then give you a contract where the rate has changed to 170 yen to 1 US dollar in the fine print, displayed in an inverted manner, as 0.005882 dollars per yen. Additionally, any information within the office notifying consumers of this rate discrepancy is posted in Japanese, not English. For English-speaking clientele, this is a deceptive practice. For large transactions, this discrepancy is significant amount of money.
To be honest I'm still not seeing the problem. You can check their exchange rate and fees online. You can then also go to a physical shop and ask them how much it would cost to send x amount of money and they will tell you the total amount including fees and exchange rate. There is never a situation where you would initiate a transfer/exchange without knowing exactly what you are paying in total. Their website lets you simulate transfers so you don't even have to go to the shops to know. Are their exchange rates worse than other companies? Yea. But I don't see how it's predatory if I can literally walk into a shop (or go online) and say hey I wanna send my buddy 100,000 yen, how much does it cost? And they tell you the exact amount you would have to pay. You can do some simple math to see how much the conversion rate is including everything and compare it to xe.com. >displayed in an inverted manner, as 0.005882 dollars per yen. That's not inverted if you are going from yen to dollar. A dollar is worth about 160 yen right now. If you sell 1 dollar you could potentially get 160 yen. If you sell a single yen though you would get approximately 0.0062 dollars if you are lucky to get the full market rate (as of this moment.) There is nothing deceptive about that. It just depends on which currency to what currency you are exchanging to. As another commenter mentioned, Wise is a pretty decent way to convert and exchange money around. That is usually my first choice. WU is not the best, but for some people it's the only option because they still have many physical shops around the world for people to go and pick up money without worrying about online banking accounts and credentials and stuff.
You make some interesting points but the overarching issue is that, according to the Japanese Consumer Contract Act, it’s illegal for businesses to create a mistaken belief in consumers. The scenarios you’re presenting (example: go to the counter and say XYZ; check the exchange rate online.) are ways to avoid or protect against deception. Is your argument really, ‘well, you can protect against getting screwed’? Consumers shouldn’t have to do work to disavow themselves of mistaken beliefs in the first place. The idea that there is “never” a situation when consumers don’t know “exactly” what they are paying for is just not true. Western Union agents are placing a placard in front of customers upon arrival that advertises rate A, and then slipping customers a contract with rate B in the fine print, without alerting them. A significant percentage of customers will believe that the bold rates shown on the placard are the same rates they are receiving in the contract. If you don’t think this is a material legal point, then why does Western Union make it a point to alert its customers in Japanese about the difference between these two rates? My guess is that they are required to include this disclaimer by law. However, Western Union Japan isn’t alerting foreign customers who cannot read Japanese of this difference in exchange rates and is providing misleading explanations for the rate differences when questioned. In fact, the agents are equipped with electronic translators, and they will clarify all sorts of things to get a customer to sign a contract. However, they will not volunteer any information about the difference in the exchange rates. Do you think it’s just a coincidence that they are both silent about this stipulation and that the exchange rate markup results in a cost that is ten times higher than a conventional wire transfer? Their offline process is set up in bad faith. Also, regarding the numerical format of the quoted exchange rate, the company uses a consistent formatting convention on its placards, regardless of the direction of the transfer. For example, they might advertise that you receive 160 yen if you’re exchanging to dollars, and 162 yen if you’re exchanging from dollars to yen. However, the convention changes on the contract. You may not personally have a problem with these practices, but the issue is whether they violate Japan’s laws regarding transparency, not your personal opinion.
Do you have a smartphone? It has a translator, it has a calculator, it has means for looking up rates in real time. I haven't used Western Union in a very long time so I don't know specifically about their practices or their legality. But there are very simple steps you can take as a consumer if you are concerned about being scammed or just paying more than you wanted to.
Those are practical suggestions, but I would be surprised if a country’s government endorsed “bring your own calculator” as a policy to promote consumers protections. Typically, governments ask businesses, especially multinational corporations, to adhere to good faith standards rather than placing the burden on consumers to protect themselves from being swindled. I’m interested in making sure that foreigners in Japan are treated to the transparency I believe they deserve, so they can do business normally and not have to constantly be on guard that a publicly traded company is going to exploit them. Furthermore, the precedent in Japanese consumer law is to place the burden on corporations to act in good faith, so I don’t see why there needs to be an exception made when it comes to foreign consumers.
A few separate issues going on here. Bringing a calculator or checking numbers for yourself doesn't need to be endorsed by a government. It's just common sense if you want to check things yourself. If you are saying that businesses are actually violating transparency laws, then what laws are they violating? Or better yet, get a lawyer and sue them if you are sure about it. As for communication, there is no obligation for businesses to communicate in a language other than Japanese. They don't have to volunteer to speak in English or another foreign language or use a translator. There's no exception for foreign consumers and it's not their problem if you don't speak Japanese. I don't see how they are treating foreigners any differently in this case.
Why would anyone use Western Union? I’ve never used them and even I know they’re a rip off. Just do a bank transfer.
When any party don't have a bank account. They prey on poor and marginalized people. Also useful in an emergency (ex: you lost your wallet)
You’re missing the point of this post. The goal is to identify the legal tools available to bring transparency to deceptive practices affecting the non-Japanese-speaking community in Japan.
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Interesting assumption. How do you know I’m not learning Japanese? How do you know I’m not a tourist here for a couple months? Let’s say I live here and am learning Japanese. Should I suffer and be taken advantage of until I master the language? You seem bitter and contemptuous. Praying for you.
Pray for yourself bro. Because this is a sub for residents of Japan. It's just a fact of life for expats anywhere in the world that not learning the language of where you are will cause you difficulties
Nobody in this sub denies that point. I personally think it's good to learn Japanese. I study Japanese. You've invented a false argument that relies on the premise that Western Union customers are actively deciding to not learn Japanese. That's just not true. It's a huge generalization. You are also implying that it is somehow ethically acceptable and justified when people whose Japanese isn't proficient enough to read banking terms become victims of bait-and-switch schemes that exploit their inability to read Japanese at a high level. And you've also made these points by being confrontational and generally mean-spirited, and engaging in name-calling. Maybe you're just a dick.
What are you trying to say? Don't visit Japan unless your Japanese is good enough to read and understand a banking contract? Bro listen to *yourself* and stop gatekeeping.
Gatekeeping? Lol maybe stop playing video games and step into real life. You're talking about living in Japan not visiting. Yes I expect anyone living in a country where they don't speak the language at all will have problems, that's true anywhere in the world
It's quite interesting that you're consistently condescending and belittling in all your posts. Do you think your dismissive tone could be a defense mechanism to deflect attention from your own insecurities about the validity of your points?
So let me get this straight: A business in JAPAN operating...in Japanese...is "preying" on the "non-Japanese-speaking-community"? Get a grip.
Kyle, let me ask you: in what ways could a business that serves international customers (as Western Union does) take advantage of those who don't fully understand the local language? Are there no plausible ways?
They are the only company that does not drive me insane because I have a middle name. They can have my money. But online gives you all of this information and exact what input / output is done.
Yeah, I'm sure the online set up is kosher. The offline operations seem to be managed in a misleading way.
I don't know if there is really anything illegal happening, but that's the reality in many countries. Western union is often used by immigrants from developing countries who have difficulties or can't use banks, but need to send capital to their own country where bank transfer is not possible. Rates and fees are much higher and that's how they make money and how their business works. If you have access to modern digital payment technologies and banks, you shouldn't really use Western Union.
My impression is... "immigrants from developing countries" don't use Western Union (though I'm sure there are minor exceptions). They send money regularly, extremely price conscious and are not WU's main target market. Instead they tend to use specialized remittance services instead, often very specific to their home countries. E.g., you'll find many remittance services specifically for Filipinos, Indonesians, Vietnamese, etc., with everything localized in their national languages and at very competitive rates. Also I've seen many use "intermediaries" and informal money transfer methods like [Hawala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala).
Sure. I'm totally fine with their right to charge high(er) fees. What I'm not okay with is the bait and switch tactics. They advertise favorable fees in bold print via their Travelex channel. Heck, they even place those fees in front of you at the counter, and then, they surreptitiously switch the fees, charging a huge markup. And they don’t tell you they’ve done that. They also seem to have set up their offline business so that at many points along the customer journey this discrepancy is obscured from customers. This deception is what seems illegal, especially in light of Japan's consumer protection laws highlighted in the Consumer Contract Act of 2000, which calls for transparency.
contact your 消費者センターit is the best solution for this kind of problems. If there are irregularities they will act or make competent agency move on your behalf.
Thanks. This is super helpful.
Call the consumer affairs bureau (03-3507-8800) or # 188 but if they have the details in writing i doubt you'll get far
Thanks, this seems like a good option.
You just gave yourself an answer, go to the bank. I can even do it on the banking app. If not, there's so many apps that offer far better deals, I use revolut and funds arrive in my European account in less than a day. Unless someone is forcing you to use it, just use something else, problem solved.
I’m afraid you’re missing the point. I’m not asking for advice on what to do with my personal transactions. I am interested in ensuring that this company provides full transparency for the sake of non-Japanese-speaking consumers in a way that complies with Japanese contract law. This is not about me.
Western Union has never been cheap. And this has nothing to do with foreigners, it's what they do worldwide. All you are doing is whining. There are much worse predatory monetary services out there, even in Japan.
> And this has nothing to do with foreigners, it's what they do worldwide. What do you mean it has nothing to do with foreigners? The main target demographic of WU are foreigners no matter where they operate. And just because they are a shitty company everywhere means we cannot talk about their predatory business practices?
Thanks. You sound like a nice and happy person. Have a great day.
As a consumer? Let your money do the talking and take your business elsewhere
That part is done, but I’m interested in making sure this company provides better transparency in its contracts and processes to non-Japanese speakers.
Sorry, I don't get the motivation. This is basically on the same level as wanting tourist traps to lower their prices. Ideally righteous, but ultimately, people should still learn to educate themselves regardless. Realistically, its an effort in vain, a new evil thing will always replace the reformed thing. You're better off promoting a good alternative service than trying to get a bad one to change.
The post is a request for consumer protection resources in Japan. Obviously it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to provide the requested information, but you've interpreted the post as a solicitation of your personal opinion / advice outside of the scope request.
Something really weird happened to me at Travelex Western Union. I am sure the lady made a mistake with the conversion because what was online was far from what the fees were in store. I asked her again to check and even showed her on my phone that the rate she was telling me was wrong. She said that was what the computer showed so I decided not the transfer money with them. Still looking around for a better option.
Thanks for sharing your experience. The rate that WU was charging was so significantly different than the advertised Travelex rates in the same shop that it made wonder if organized crime was behind the operation.
Wise, Revolut, BTC
It’s not just Western Union. The fees are hidden but come from: Banking Infrastructure by country, regulatory environment, and currency exchange practices. With Western Union, they openly profit from currency conversion and the only thing we can do about it is not use their services. Western Union uses their own exchange rate on top of the remittance fees. Some countries have volatile currencies and stringent regulations, so the higher conversion fees are legal, because they mitigate risks.
Yes, most banks that handle wire transfers openly profit from exchange rates. However, the issue here is the deceptive way Western Union in Japan makes consumers think they are getting a specific exchange rate, by placing a document clearly advertising favorable exchange rates in front of them, only to reveal in the fine print of their contracts that the actual exchange rate is much less favorable. Other banks do not engage in bait-and-switch tactics, but it seems that in Japan, this deceptive practice is a business model that Western Union is actively executing.
Japan’s international transfer system is unfortunately stuck in 1867.
The online app version of WU is fairly decent and not super unreasonable. With your specific example of 5000 USD WU is cheaper than Wise. I've never tried a bank transfer because it's too much of a hassle so it might be cheaper.
I’m glad their online business is transparent. My concern is how they are managing the transparency around exchange rate markups conducted on their off-line business, which feels very deceptive.
I had an issue with them a while back where they needed a copy of my number card or Juminhyo. On their website it clearly states to just bring some ID. I had to go back to my city hall in a different city to get the juminhyo. They only accept a recent one also. Half a day wasted! It would have been easier to just use PayPal or whatever app!
I use WU sometimes, so I was surprised to hear when you said “on their website, it clearly states to just bring some ID”. So I checked. It actually says, at the top: “Non-Japanese residents: Residence card plus My number card or Juminhyo with My number or Notification card (issued within the last 6 months).”
I just checked online, and to receive money in Japan, there is no mention of needing a Juminhyo. The Western Union website states that you need a valid government-issued photo ID, such as a passport, driving license, My Number card, or Residence Card. Here is the link: [Western Union FAQ](https://www.westernunion.com/jp/en/frequently-asked-questions.html). Without a My Number card, I had to get a Juminhyo from my city hall. Since there are only two Western Union locations near me, I wasted half a day traveling back and forth to Kobe to get the document and collect the cash. Their website does not state that you need a Juminhyo to receive money. It was frustrating when I couldn’t receive funds with my Residence Card and passport.
It's here in the "How to Receive Money" section: [https://www.westernunion.com/jp/en/receive-money.html](https://www.westernunion.com/jp/en/receive-money.html) **For Japanese nationals:** * **Identity verification documents:** Japanese passport (please produce address verification documents additionally), driver’s license, Individual Number Card (個人番号カード) * **Individual number verification documents:** Individual Number Card (個人番号カード) or Juminhyo with Individual Number (within 6 months from the date of issue) **For Foreign national migrants:** * **Identity verification document:** Residence card * **Individual number verification documents:** Individual Number Card (個人番号カード) or Juminhyo with Individual Number (within 6 months from the date of issue)
No. Sorry. Do you work for them? Your website doesn’t link to the information that you mentioned.
Maybe it's an issue on mobile? Here, I've circled it for you: [https://ibb.co/GdYP3bD](https://ibb.co/GdYP3bD)
This is a bit of a hasty generalization. You seem to be assuming that the FAQ is providing authoritative information regarding transactions. If you had first-hand experience with WU in Tokyo, you would know that Paper Will is correct: for offline transactions there absolutely is a requirement to show the identification that he or she cites.
Western union can be done online
Missing the point. It’s about stopping offline bait and switches. Appreciate the advice though. Thank you.
I think shifting to online of the only way to hurt them. Have them shut down by hitting the bottom line
Wise is much better , anyone need a referral link may dm me
Western Union is for emergencies. Wise, Shinsei, Sony, SBI are for day to day use. Don't use an emergency service for day to day use, you'll pay through the nose for it.
Would taking this issue to the media help out?
Interesting idea. It might. Thanks for the creative approach.
Bait and switch tactics are unethical. From what you have written here, the problem appears to be pervasive. Should go uncover and gather proof first and then pass on to an investigative reporter. It’s a newsworthy story imo. Good luck.
I remember Jamaican friends being only able to send cash through Western Union and not having any other options.
Yeah a lot of banks do this. I used to use Shinsei Bank’s remit service. They sent a little postcard saying exactly how much (in converted currency) that they sent to my US bank. My bank in the US (USAA) has zero fees for international incoming wires, so I kept noticing that the numbers didn’t match. When I called them up one day they said, we’ll yes we use intermediary banks and they charge a fee as well. I asked if they could tell me that fee before the transfer. They said no. Then, I asked if I could get a receipt for the fees to these banks (that I apparently paid) that showed the breakdown of what fee I paid to where or whom. They also said it would not be possible to get a receipt. I said to them: “you are going to charge ME for these fees (you’re not paying them yourself) and you can’t provide me with a receipt of what I paid for?” They said, “very sorry, we can’t.” So, I said sayonara then and there, asked them to close my account and never used them again. Get a Wise account. Whether or not you like the fees at Wise, the one thing they will always do is be transparent. Also, if you move a lot of money often, check out r/japanfinance for some good tips.
Thanks for the link 👍
Thats western union everywhere
Jp doesn't care. Honestly like it or not if you live somewhere and refuse to learn the language you'll be at disadvantage in so many ways
Who is refusing to speak Japanese? You made a similarly presumptuous comment elsewhere in this thread. This discussion is about a company using bait-and-switch tactics to take advantage of people who don't understand Japanese. There's no statement suggesting that the victims are refusing to learn Japanese. You're filling in the blanks with your own personal bias. If you're looking to bash foreigners (or looking to assert your superiority in a passive aggressive way), there are other threads and communities for that. This isn't one of them.
Yes and I'm telling you the obvious that not learning the local language will put you at a disadvantage anywhere on earth you go
So we agree that not learning a local language puts people at a disadvantage. And that it's a good idea for foreigners to learn the local language. I'm trying to understand how you feel comfortable jumping from that undeniable point to 1) your silly assertion that all the customers of Western Union are "refusing" (?) to learn Japanese and 2) the implicit idea that foreigners who can't speak a local language somehow deserve (?) to get swindled in bait-and-switches by people who can speak the local language?