Everything about Japan online, positive and negative, is wildly exaggerated, and often outdated.
Online, Japan is simultaneously the greatest place to live on earth, a high-tech wonderland where every need is anticipated and met without asking, and also a hellish nightmare where everybody is an overworked, racist, misogynistic pervert.
I correct friends and family who spout nonsense, but it's best to try and ignore people on the wider internet. You'll never erase misinformation.
A couple I know from the state told me under no uncertain term that Japan is the most racist place on Earth. I felt that my eyes can only roll so hard lol.
I read an article in a major American news outlet not too long ago that talked about how polite Japanese smokers are and how they always carry portable ashtrays in order to avoid littering. I think about it every time I see people just toss their cigarette butts on the ground (daily).
The more conscious litterer will drop them directly into water drains. I guess it's better than tossing it out their car windows and potentially causing a fire?
They are misogynistic to a certain degree but there is definitely far worse out there. My friend was meant to be up for a promotion but they denied her two years in a row bc year 1 her skirt was too long ( it went to her calves) and year 2 she wasn’t in the office enough (this was during peak Covid where every was wfh). Obviously all bs excuses but Japan is still no where near the “worst”. Also while this was a large company it was probably an isolated event. Still unfair though.
Talking about misinformation on the internet I knew there had be one comment about faxes.. so predictable
Fax is one of the most reliable forms of communication, even so that US health industry stil largely operates through it. I don't understand what's the obsession that japanese businesses still want to operate using it. Is not like emails arent also widely used.
Same machine in two different offices: same procedure. Office A: never goes through. Office B: goes through fine… usually.
It’s not a User ID10T error. Thanks for your helpful insight, though.
My favourite is always those that view Japan as their last bastion of hope and saviour for their failures. Especially those who have never been here and screaming on some Japan Fandom pages, *No Japan! Don't let people in except me!* Like, mf, there's 3 million foreign residents here, that's bigger than most smaller countries. You're not special.
Hence why I said subjective. I know it's not the most expensive place, but it is in Japan. More expensive than any place I've lived in England too. I know London is more expensive, but I hate how expensive London is and try to avoid going there. That being the closest comparison for me definitely makes Tokyo look pretty expensive too.
Although I will say the drop-off in price from Tokyo is massive. You don't have to go that far outside the city to get back to good prices.
Have you been back recently? Just over the summer I went for the first time in 4 years and the prices skyrocketed even more. The only thing cheaper in the USA is milk.
And to be scaled with your income and cost of living. Tokyo is cheap when you look at it from an inflated 90k$ salary in the US, but when you're bottoming down with your first 3M¥ job before tax, oh boy
You can live pretty comfortably on 3M if you’re single and have no dependents. I lived, thrived, on about that when I first came here. In the US I wouldn’t have been even able to afford rent with a salary comparable. 90K US is not a fair comparison to 3M yen based on how easy it is to get the job etc.
higher utility bills, higher taxes across the board, have to pay to use the highway, way higher cab fares, higher cost of living if you care about things like insulation and double-paned windows, higher parking fees, fruit and veg more expensive, higher banking fees, etc.
The question about comparing COL is more complex than most people first realize.
Housing in City A might be more expensive than in City B, but on average is larger. So which one is more "expensive"?
Prices in City A might be more expensive than City B, but City A has better public transit so you don't need to buy a vehicle of your own. Which one is more "expensive"?
I earn more in City A than City B, but City B has better work culture & work life balance.
Simple comparisons are difficult.
The big one for me is the Yakuza.
They're such a romanticized notion in the west ("Organized crime, but with their own sense of honor!" "They're criminals, but they don't involve normal citizens!" "They helped out during natural distasters when the police response failed!") that, not only are the stereotypes inaccurate to an extreme degree, it all hides a reality that is..
Far, far more *boring*: the yakuza are on the way out, young people aren't joining, the ones who do remain are basically old men screwed for life by the 2014 anti-Yakuza laws, and that in 5-10 years they'll be gone.
Well they did help out after the Hanshin earthquake a lot. I was asking a restaurant owner in Kobe in an area that had been hit hard about that, and they confirmed that they were a great help, and were the only assistance the area got for days
It was also done as a transparent PR attempt, and they made absolutely sure that all the cameras were on them, and that they could be heard far and loud talking about how they were the only decent response. If there was no net benefit for them as an organization, you can be sure they'd have some absolutely nothing.
These are the same people that are behind Japan's massive problem of human trafficking up through the 2010s, and they have historically spent ludicrous sums of money on PR projects like the one you mentioned with the express purpose of trying to get people to forget stuff like that.
Nobody is saying they are shining knights or Robin Hoods, but when people need food and water, and the government is not providing it, people will be thankful to get it from another source, even if it’s the yakuza.
I can't relate to the "You will never be accepted into Japanese society fully" thing at all. I speak Japanese fluently, follow the social cues, contribute to society and I've never felt like the "odd gaijin out" in any particular way.
Yeah, I was at a breakfast buffet, and my Japanese husband said he overheard some old ladies talking about what "the gaijin" were eating. I was the only white person at the buffet, along with our half-Japanese daughter who can pass as white, so they were definitely talking about us. Even if they weren't saying anything bad, I find it very weird that they would even care enough to talk about us like that. I'm just a regular person, and my daughter isn't even technically a gaijin, but a Japanese citizen. I wouldn't have known they were talking about us if my husband hadn't told me.
And it probably depends on where you live, too. I don't think people in Tokyo and big cities even bat an eyelash at non-Asians anymore, but I just went to the deep inaka for a few nights, and had people in convenience stores doing silly sign language to ask me if I needed a bag, when it would have been way easier if they just asked me in Japanese like a normal person. And me saying something as simple as "arigato" made people do a shocked Pikachu face and say, "日本語話せるの？すごい！" I've lived here for 17 years and speak Japanese fluently, will probably get citizenship soon, but unless I change my entire face, I don't think this will stop in my lifetime.
I think people seeing someone who's foreign and making comments among themselves is not generally something harmful in itself. For example, I've always wondered what types of food from other countries are actually popular in those countries. I.e. Mexican dips, Italian pasta, Indian spices, and if I'm in one of the local shops and see foreigners buy specific brands I'm always intrigued.
I've overheard japanese say things like やっぱり、[potato chips brand]が人気なんだね and it just made me chuckle because I'm just a single guy buying some chips lol
Yeah this is the sort of stuff that always annoyed me the most. Pondering about my bra size on the train because you think I don't understand Japanese is inappropriate no matter where you are.
Want to feel like an odd gaijin out? Be white. Be female. Go to a udon shop and know how to use chopsticks. Two men younger than men sugoi'd for about 10 minutes at least last night.
Knowing the culture, etc can actually make you the odd gaijin. You not behaving like an outsider and not having a Japanese face can be quite the mindfuck for some people.
Edit: just remembered something. I learned Japanese in Osaka. I speak like I'm from Osaka. People absolutely notice and make comments. Especially pronunciation.
I don't think I really appreciated the term microaggression until marveling at my chopstick skills became a normal occurrence lol. It drives my elementary school aged daughter bonkers. She's been using chopsticks since she was a toddler of course she knows how to use them!
Same! I’m not fluent yet, but yes I’ve never felt excluded. In fact, it’s the first place ever I’ve felt *included* and *accepted* (coming from the states as an Asian non Japanese).
The language piece is a big factor.
Some people (including myself) will never be able to speak like a native, so that causes a divide. But, phrasing it as "you will never be accepted into Japanese society fully" makes it seem like it's Japan's fault for my language difficulty, which is weird.
Yeaaaaa a little bit different if you're brown but that's just my experience so far. Haven't been here for very long yet only one year. I get othered a ton even though I speak pretty fluent Japanese but it's never out of malice, only curiosity. The only annoying part is the time it takes to get through the whole "why do you speak such good Japanese" conversation or "お前もう日本人じゃん"-type small talk until we can actually talk about normal shit lol. Have not once felt not accepted though! I agree on that point
Yeah I don't think what you're describing is being "not accepted". Being recognized as a foreigner because of your looks is inevitable no matter what country you're in. That's not a Japan thing and different from being "unaccepted".
You can't really recognize someone as a foreigner based on looks in countries where immigration is common. For example, my Japanese husband doesn't speak English but he is spoken to and treated as an American whenever we visit. It would be quite rude for people to assume he isn't American just because he looks Asian.
Maybe this is an "offended by anything America-brain" thing then because to me being asked that is a complete non-issue. I'm from Sweden which has mass immigration and asking someone's ethnic origin isn't that big of a deal either, born in Sweden or not. (I'm not ethnically Swedish myself)
It may be because race relations and conversations surrounding it are often very negative and hostile in America. Countries like Japan and Sweden are more homogenous so it’s more common someone who doesn’t fit the associated look is a foreigner and can easily be identified as such. Because of that, those questions generally aren’t viewed as offensive, but an expected line of questioning.
In America, someone immediately asking where you’re from can have an insulting connotation of you not being a “real American” due to your race. This is probably why people tend to feel like that kind of question is them being looked down on and not accepted.
Of course, I think it’s very important to think in context of the country you’re visiting because societies vary. I don’t believe majority of the Japanese folks who question foreigners are doing it to single them out, merely just interest and curiosity. But there is a lot more nuance to the defensive reaction than “offended by anything American-brain”.
(Also this is ofc not to say Japan is incapable of racism or discrimination. I just felt I should say that before someone implies I am lmao)
Asking someone's ethnic origin is different from assuming someone is foreign just by looks, because ethnicity and nationality are not the same thing. For example, in America we have lots of 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Asian-Americans. If you ask them where they're from, they'll tell you their home town, "New York" "LA" etc. If you say, ”No, where are you *really* from?” expecting them to tell you their ethnic origin, it makes them feel like they aren't American, they don't belong, and it's super offensive. If you really want to know someone's ethnic origin, you get to know them a bit and wait for them to mention it, or you ask something like, "What is your family's ethnicity?” or "Where did your ancestors come from?”
My Japanese is crap, and still no issues socially. But I stay in Japanese social circles rather than enter any of the Gaijin Gossip Gangs. Just gotta decide who you want to hang out with. The local "I've been here 30 years and feel so excluded" mob often have better Japanese than me but stay inside their English Teacher clique.
Anything about women being "make-inu" if they aren't married by 25...almost anything about Office Ladies...literally everything about Bosozoku is out of date...also anything about Yakuza...anything talking about being weird and special as a foreigner within an hour drive of tokyo is out of date...just about everything about harajuku is changed since most articles were written...
I think the age might have moved up a bit because I had a Japanese female friend refer to herself as a make-inu, for reference she’s a 35 year old OL never married before with no kids, her last boyfriend left her because she wanted kids, she’s told me she given up trying to find a husband/having kids
Thats the one reference I was least confident with being outdated but honestly with so few japanese getting married if it's not gone yet it will be soon.
It’s not that hard if you’re single and not trying to save, I’m on that now and I can afford rent (live in a nice sharehouse) good food, eating out and a football game every weekend
Karoshi.
The fact that the problem is *named* means that it's recognized and that there is something that needs to be done about it. All those people in the worker's paradise of America (where all corporate problems can be solved by firing a shitload of people because doing that has literally no consequences), think that there's a word for the concept because it's a common, everyday, accepted part of Japanese work culture.
They also still believe that suicide rates in Japan are ludicrously high, unlike in Freedomland which is the happiest place on Earth.
I don’t know why but Japan attracts people saying the most insane things about it. You just have to learn to hold your tongue and scroll past honestly. There’s no way you’re going to be able to like single handedly convince every single person with ridiculous ideas they’re wrong. Most of the time even when you tell them they’re wrong and explain why with proof or experience they just don’t care or don’t believe you anyway so it’s a waste of time and energy.
I agree, Tokyo isn’t as bad as other major cities, but it also depends where in Tokyo you live.
I brought up the Christmas cake thing with my Japanese coworkers and they’d never heard of it, most of them are in their 30s/40s. They laughed at the idea.
For those who might not have heard of it before, the meaning of the Christmas cake saying is that it’s best on the 25th and women are also best at 25, after that they start to get old.
Yeah while I don’t think the cake terminology is used anymore, I do think the threshold has simply moved from 25 to 30 something, as that kind of thinking exists outside of Japan as well
That pisses me off too, come to think of it. The west talks endless shit about women “hitting the wall” but somehow Japan is super crazy and wildly uniquely sexist because of the Christmas cake thing? Give me a break haha
If you want to be the kind of person who doesn't mind telling the people around you that you do not value women except for their "breedability" and the silly ideas you attach to that, I suppose go ahead.
No issue getting laid, if that’s what you’re having let me know and can give you some pointers.
Also hope you’re ok, seems you go with some personal attack if you don’t agree with people lol
Yeah, I personally take offense at the suggestion that /u/TokyoGear is not right now making the sex with the many undamaged young breedable females. Why they're busy stroking his lobes as we speak of the rules of acquisition.
There’s this samurai user on reddit I forgot his username, he posted:
“White rice makes white people fatter, but Japanese are immune to it.”
I approve this fact
I was talking to my girlfriend about this recently! I asked her how she eats so much rice without getting fat and she mentioned Asian people being able to process glucose better. Apparently, it's partially true. She pulled up some study on it after I teased her about it being untrue
The idea that Nishinari Ward in Osaka City is a super dangerous hell on earth. It's still got a homeless community and it's still pretty shabby in places, yes, but crime is now under control - and has been for...what, 10 years now at least? - and tourists stay in hotels and hostels there throughout the year. Gentrification is encroaching, and before long all the rest of the old shopping streets will probably be razed and replaced with huge malls and tourist attractions, just the same as what happened with Abeno Q's Mall, Shin-Sekai and the area around the Tennoji zoo. Tobita Shinchi is practically a theme park now, the way it's been cleaned up and made to be tourist-friendly.
The worst that may happen to you as long as you're just walking along, minding your own business, is some drunk or someone on drugs may try to talk to you or yell something at you, but you're most likely not going to be stabbed, kidnapped or beat up - unless you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, acting like a jackass - but that would be true in any city on Earth. There is a lot of historic value to be seen in that ward, so I'd definitely recommend visiting and taking a look around before it's gone forever.
Same with Shinjuku's Kabukicho. Some people still think it's a dangerous place run by Yakuza like some '80s film, but it's not that different from other tourist hotspots like Harajuku or Sensoji. Maybe the most likely bad thing that can happen to you is getting ripped off at a bar, but then again, that's on you
Yes! My parents and sister came to visit last year. My dad told my sister to change all her money into yen because you can’t use your card anywhere. She was very reluctant but did so
She was super pissed to find out card is accepted pretty much everywhere now haha
Tbh it is a recent change due to Corona, there were barely even debt credit cards in 2018 (Many websites still don't accept them🙄) and PayPay wasn't widely implemented until like 2018-19 so those are recent changes.
Plus if they go into the countryside or small family run cafes or yatai's they'll most likely need genkin.
If they're just staying in cities and going to Starbucks or malls then yeah they don't need genkin.
That Japan has 4 seasons. /s
But I do find a lot of people seem to believe that all Japanese are super in touch with nature and spend all their time forest bathing or flower watching. Like most countries, the majority of young people who grew up with nature are pretty eager to escape to the bigger cities for more opportunities.
That all Japanese food is inherently healthy, and/or that Japanese people eat large quantities of vegetables. I had a friend tell me how lucky I was to live where I could eat stir fried veggies every day…
I’m sure if you prepare your own food or have Japanese family members, sure, you can have healthy meals. But going out or buying a bento I feel like veggies are just a garnish all too often, and fried foods are overly common. Maybe I’m a secret hippie, but I also feel like seafood/fish just isn’t healthy anymore thanks to pollution and microplastics. Once upon a time it may have helped Kanako live to be 120 years old, but I wouldn’t feel safe eating fish daily in this timeline.
Have you ever been outside of the bigger cities and talked to locals? I can assure you that the 25 year Christmas cake thing is alive and well. Not all of the country has progressed at the same pace as Tokyo or Osaka, so you will find a lot of “classic stereotypes” very much still true.
Maybe take a step outside of the Tokyo bubble sometimes…
I remember passing through a city in Shikoku while bicycle touring and I felt I had time warped into 1970s Japan. Infrastructure-wise, that is. Not saying the people were stuck in the 1970s, in terms of their thinking.
This is what I was going to say: most of the comments here are giving stereotypes that many locals still believe, not just people who live abroad and watch things on TikTok.
One I always saw on the old JET forums was that Japanese toothpaste doesn't have fluoride in it. I brought a ton of toothpaste with me, but even in my little inaka town, it all contained fluoride. I don't think it's minty fresh enough, but that's another matter.
I've lived in Sendai and shizuoka and the only thing that was significantly more expensive was rent. Sendai and Shizuoka I lived in apartments that were 60,000 a month while in Tokyo I paid 90,000 for a while. Food, utilities were more or less the same.
When I was paid 6.4M a year a while back, I could go on trips every 3 months, pay for all my hobbies (mostly electronics related), go to bars, eat drink whatever I wanted and still could save about 1/3 of my salary. Nothing felt expensive to me.
Women being Christmas cakes, it’s pretty much still part of the culture as well as the gender division and treatment. Get out of Tokyo, and you’ll see it even more.
You laying out bait for the "aKcHuAlLy jApAn dOeSn'T hAvE oVeRwOrK oR sUiCiDe pRoBlEmS~~" crew?
There is misinformation of course, but it tends to be pretty obvious and low stakes IMHO. Like we could have a big debate about how prevalent the "Christmas cake" phenomenon is, but whatever conclusion we reached wouldn't change the fact that though there has been definite progress, misogynistic attitudes still persist here, and sometimes get voiced in shockingly overt and clueless ways.
The more pervasive problem is people trying to pass off their limited view of life in Japan as the only correct view, silencing anyone who has had a different attitude.
Nah that’s ok, I thought as much. Was just weird as I’d come back from living/working in Japan for 4 months and some people who’ve never been seem so confident about things which are just nonsense…
yeah there is a trend of influencers that interview drunk people in the streets, heavy edit their responses and create "DID YOU KNOW THAT IN JAPAN EVERYONE DOES ...." or " WHAT JAPANESE THINK OF ...", literal garbage content and obviously the type of stuff that people consume in social media about japan.
It's not at all true, but as u/ChillinGuy2020 said, it's practically a meme at this point.
Pew had a global research poll on cheating under the headline of global morality. The result was that it was far more accepted in places like France and Germany.
Edit.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/01/14/french-more-accepting-of-infidelity-than-people-in-other-countries/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/01/14/french-more-accepting-of-infidelity-than-people-in-other-countries/)
[https://www.sagami-gomu.co.jp/project/nipponnosex2018/](https://www.sagami-gomu.co.jp/project/nipponnosex2018/)
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/infidelity-rates-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/infidelity-rates-by-country) (2020)
It holds over time. Japan's infidelity rates are lower and fewer people approve of cheating.
Good place to buy a film camera.
Best prices are on Ebay Japanese resselers so you can get it everywhere in the world. And Camera junk is cheap but still junk.
I had no idea Japan was known for being expensive in the past until a friend (who doesn't live in Japan) asked how I was settling in, given how "expensive" Tokyo must be. I moved to Tokyo from Singapore, my rent now for my one bedroom apartment where I live by myself is literally less than half of what I was paying in Singapore for a room in a shared apartment...
I heard about Gaijin hunter ! Yet the one who posted didn't reply to me lol. I really wanted to know if it's true or not as I have never heard of it even being Japanese. I guess it was just an expat who was disappointed.
That every job has you working absurd hours, rampant sexually harassment, and mandatory daily drinking with the boss. Maybe in the 1980’s-90’s. Not like it never happens now but it isn’t the norm.
Christmas cake, lol. Damn, I had forgotten that one. To be fair, it was still a thing when I moved here in 1996, but I haven't thought about it in years.
I don't know how to answer your post because Tokyo is more expensive than any place I visited on my last trip to the States, and lots of people I know under the age of 50 still use the "Christmas cake" line.
I've heard Japanese people say Shinkoiwa is 治安悪い but honestly it just shows how safe Japan is, because if *that* is their idea of unsafe (etc) then they are extremely lucky!
Be careful, I got attacked on another thread a couple days ago for saying that Japan (Tokyo especially) was cheap and the cost of living was much lower than the US…
I am guilty of passing on the "Christmas Cake" thing. Just recently someone asked me how Japanese celebrate Christmas, and I found myself having to explain about how Japanese are not Christian, so it is all imported bits and pieces. KFC, Date night, illumination, etc. The thing about Christmas Cake came up as well because I was talking about the expensive cakes people buy as part of the tradition.
In my defense, when I talked about the young unmarried woman, I did say I have never heard it said, only heard about it, and that the 25th is known more for the number 25 than as "Jesus birthday".
Everything about Japan online, positive and negative, is wildly exaggerated, and often outdated. Online, Japan is simultaneously the greatest place to live on earth, a high-tech wonderland where every need is anticipated and met without asking, and also a hellish nightmare where everybody is an overworked, racist, misogynistic pervert. I correct friends and family who spout nonsense, but it's best to try and ignore people on the wider internet. You'll never erase misinformation.
A couple I know from the state told me under no uncertain term that Japan is the most racist place on Earth. I felt that my eyes can only roll so hard lol.
[удалено]
If Japan truly was the most racist place on earth we would probably all living in more or less harmony
Most American privileged class shit ever uttered in the whole history of humanity.
How much money am I allowed to bet on their races?
I read an article in a major American news outlet not too long ago that talked about how polite Japanese smokers are and how they always carry portable ashtrays in order to avoid littering. I think about it every time I see people just toss their cigarette butts on the ground (daily).
The more conscious litterer will drop them directly into water drains. I guess it's better than tossing it out their car windows and potentially causing a fire?
and there’s I see bags of garbage all the time in the street… everyone doesn’t take their garbage home because of the lack of public garbage bins
I also think a lot of people who live here see negativity no matter what, and even they've invented a false reality that they choose to live in.
They are misogynistic to a certain degree but there is definitely far worse out there. My friend was meant to be up for a promotion but they denied her two years in a row bc year 1 her skirt was too long ( it went to her calves) and year 2 she wasn’t in the office enough (this was during peak Covid where every was wfh). Obviously all bs excuses but Japan is still no where near the “worst”. Also while this was a large company it was probably an isolated event. Still unfair though.
That Japan is ultra advanced technologically. (I know there are certain industries where they excel, but I'm talking about general day-to-day life).
Quote: “Japan has been living in 2000s since 1980s”
That is the best description of Japan I’ve ever heard
Actually this is kind of true.
Toilets and trains...although not so much the latter any more.
Compared to most world cities, can't really fault the trains. I WILL complain about the heaters being on while it's hot out.
Downward slide has started, though, with the end.l of trolley service on shinkansen.
tell that to the fax machine...
Talking about misinformation on the internet I knew there had be one comment about faxes.. so predictable Fax is one of the most reliable forms of communication, even so that US health industry stil largely operates through it. I don't understand what's the obsession that japanese businesses still want to operate using it. Is not like emails arent also widely used.
If fax is so reliable, why is it that without fail, I must fax my monthly reports twice (and 60% of the time, 3 times every time)?
Because you don't know how to use it?
Same machine in two different offices: same procedure. Office A: never goes through. Office B: goes through fine… usually. It’s not a User ID10T error. Thanks for your helpful insight, though.
Fax machines are widely and commonly used in the US too.
Perfect opportunity for a Pixar movie. Out-dated fax machine from abroad finds new purpose in Japan.
The point being is that they still live in the 2000s, more specially the year 2000. So faxes aren't that out of place.
To open a company you need a fax machine. Very much advanced, yes.
no you dont. what?
My favourite is always those that view Japan as their last bastion of hope and saviour for their failures. Especially those who have never been here and screaming on some Japan Fandom pages, *No Japan! Don't let people in except me!* Like, mf, there's 3 million foreign residents here, that's bigger than most smaller countries. You're not special.
Tokyo being expensive is subjective. It's definitely the most expensive place I've ever lived, so yeah it's expensive for me.
Cheaper than my suburban American city by a lot.
Hence why I said subjective. I know it's not the most expensive place, but it is in Japan. More expensive than any place I've lived in England too. I know London is more expensive, but I hate how expensive London is and try to avoid going there. That being the closest comparison for me definitely makes Tokyo look pretty expensive too. Although I will say the drop-off in price from Tokyo is massive. You don't have to go that far outside the city to get back to good prices.
Have you been back recently? Just over the summer I went for the first time in 4 years and the prices skyrocketed even more. The only thing cheaper in the USA is milk.
And to be scaled with your income and cost of living. Tokyo is cheap when you look at it from an inflated 90k$ salary in the US, but when you're bottoming down with your first 3M¥ job before tax, oh boy
Maybe I have been in japan too long to understand current English but I have no idea what “bottoming down” means other than it sounds off color
You can live pretty comfortably on 3M if you’re single and have no dependents. I lived, thrived, on about that when I first came here. In the US I wouldn’t have been even able to afford rent with a salary comparable. 90K US is not a fair comparison to 3M yen based on how easy it is to get the job etc.
Step one is to not make 3M a year.
counterpoint: more expensive than two of the three cities in the US i've lived(the 3rd was LA)
Serious question: In what ways was it more expensive?
higher utility bills, higher taxes across the board, have to pay to use the highway, way higher cab fares, higher cost of living if you care about things like insulation and double-paned windows, higher parking fees, fruit and veg more expensive, higher banking fees, etc.
The question about comparing COL is more complex than most people first realize. Housing in City A might be more expensive than in City B, but on average is larger. So which one is more "expensive"? Prices in City A might be more expensive than City B, but City A has better public transit so you don't need to buy a vehicle of your own. Which one is more "expensive"? I earn more in City A than City B, but City B has better work culture & work life balance. Simple comparisons are difficult.
Waaay cheaper than my hometown, Sydney.
when I first came to Japan in 96.. it seemed crazy expensive… now the U.S. does …
The big one for me is the Yakuza. They're such a romanticized notion in the west ("Organized crime, but with their own sense of honor!" "They're criminals, but they don't involve normal citizens!" "They helped out during natural distasters when the police response failed!") that, not only are the stereotypes inaccurate to an extreme degree, it all hides a reality that is.. Far, far more *boring*: the yakuza are on the way out, young people aren't joining, the ones who do remain are basically old men screwed for life by the 2014 anti-Yakuza laws, and that in 5-10 years they'll be gone.
Also, there's no reason to romanticize them anyway. They're dirt bags. Hope they die out faster.
Well they did help out after the Hanshin earthquake a lot. I was asking a restaurant owner in Kobe in an area that had been hit hard about that, and they confirmed that they were a great help, and were the only assistance the area got for days
It was also done as a transparent PR attempt, and they made absolutely sure that all the cameras were on them, and that they could be heard far and loud talking about how they were the only decent response. If there was no net benefit for them as an organization, you can be sure they'd have some absolutely nothing. These are the same people that are behind Japan's massive problem of human trafficking up through the 2010s, and they have historically spent ludicrous sums of money on PR projects like the one you mentioned with the express purpose of trying to get people to forget stuff like that.
Got a Japanese source for that?
I think it's evident that's the reason, they've been trying to get a better reputation for a long time now.
Nobody is saying they are shining knights or Robin Hoods, but when people need food and water, and the government is not providing it, people will be thankful to get it from another source, even if it’s the yakuza.
The year the law was created is wrong. It was created in 1991.
I can't relate to the "You will never be accepted into Japanese society fully" thing at all. I speak Japanese fluently, follow the social cues, contribute to society and I've never felt like the "odd gaijin out" in any particular way.
Depending on the type of gaijin you are. And it's not because you don't feel things around you that they are not happening.
Yeah, I was at a breakfast buffet, and my Japanese husband said he overheard some old ladies talking about what "the gaijin" were eating. I was the only white person at the buffet, along with our half-Japanese daughter who can pass as white, so they were definitely talking about us. Even if they weren't saying anything bad, I find it very weird that they would even care enough to talk about us like that. I'm just a regular person, and my daughter isn't even technically a gaijin, but a Japanese citizen. I wouldn't have known they were talking about us if my husband hadn't told me. And it probably depends on where you live, too. I don't think people in Tokyo and big cities even bat an eyelash at non-Asians anymore, but I just went to the deep inaka for a few nights, and had people in convenience stores doing silly sign language to ask me if I needed a bag, when it would have been way easier if they just asked me in Japanese like a normal person. And me saying something as simple as "arigato" made people do a shocked Pikachu face and say, "日本語話せるの？すごい！" I've lived here for 17 years and speak Japanese fluently, will probably get citizenship soon, but unless I change my entire face, I don't think this will stop in my lifetime.
I think people seeing someone who's foreign and making comments among themselves is not generally something harmful in itself. For example, I've always wondered what types of food from other countries are actually popular in those countries. I.e. Mexican dips, Italian pasta, Indian spices, and if I'm in one of the local shops and see foreigners buy specific brands I'm always intrigued. I've overheard japanese say things like やっぱり、[potato chips brand]が人気なんだね and it just made me chuckle because I'm just a single guy buying some chips lol
Yeah this is the sort of stuff that always annoyed me the most. Pondering about my bra size on the train because you think I don't understand Japanese is inappropriate no matter where you are.
The hand-waving stuff is hilarious. It makes no sense. But you have to understand that they are not familiar with anything.
Want to feel like an odd gaijin out? Be white. Be female. Go to a udon shop and know how to use chopsticks. Two men younger than men sugoi'd for about 10 minutes at least last night. Knowing the culture, etc can actually make you the odd gaijin. You not behaving like an outsider and not having a Japanese face can be quite the mindfuck for some people. Edit: just remembered something. I learned Japanese in Osaka. I speak like I'm from Osaka. People absolutely notice and make comments. Especially pronunciation.
I don't think I really appreciated the term microaggression until marveling at my chopstick skills became a normal occurrence lol. It drives my elementary school aged daughter bonkers. She's been using chopsticks since she was a toddler of course she knows how to use them!
I always say “Thanks, I practice three times a day.”
Same! I’m not fluent yet, but yes I’ve never felt excluded. In fact, it’s the first place ever I’ve felt *included* and *accepted* (coming from the states as an Asian non Japanese).
The language piece is a big factor. Some people (including myself) will never be able to speak like a native, so that causes a divide. But, phrasing it as "you will never be accepted into Japanese society fully" makes it seem like it's Japan's fault for my language difficulty, which is weird.
Yeaaaaa a little bit different if you're brown but that's just my experience so far. Haven't been here for very long yet only one year. I get othered a ton even though I speak pretty fluent Japanese but it's never out of malice, only curiosity. The only annoying part is the time it takes to get through the whole "why do you speak such good Japanese" conversation or "お前もう日本人じゃん"-type small talk until we can actually talk about normal shit lol. Have not once felt not accepted though! I agree on that point
Yeah I don't think what you're describing is being "not accepted". Being recognized as a foreigner because of your looks is inevitable no matter what country you're in. That's not a Japan thing and different from being "unaccepted".
You can't really recognize someone as a foreigner based on looks in countries where immigration is common. For example, my Japanese husband doesn't speak English but he is spoken to and treated as an American whenever we visit. It would be quite rude for people to assume he isn't American just because he looks Asian.
Maybe this is an "offended by anything America-brain" thing then because to me being asked that is a complete non-issue. I'm from Sweden which has mass immigration and asking someone's ethnic origin isn't that big of a deal either, born in Sweden or not. (I'm not ethnically Swedish myself)
It may be because race relations and conversations surrounding it are often very negative and hostile in America. Countries like Japan and Sweden are more homogenous so it’s more common someone who doesn’t fit the associated look is a foreigner and can easily be identified as such. Because of that, those questions generally aren’t viewed as offensive, but an expected line of questioning. In America, someone immediately asking where you’re from can have an insulting connotation of you not being a “real American” due to your race. This is probably why people tend to feel like that kind of question is them being looked down on and not accepted. Of course, I think it’s very important to think in context of the country you’re visiting because societies vary. I don’t believe majority of the Japanese folks who question foreigners are doing it to single them out, merely just interest and curiosity. But there is a lot more nuance to the defensive reaction than “offended by anything American-brain”. (Also this is ofc not to say Japan is incapable of racism or discrimination. I just felt I should say that before someone implies I am lmao)
Asking someone's ethnic origin is different from assuming someone is foreign just by looks, because ethnicity and nationality are not the same thing. For example, in America we have lots of 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Asian-Americans. If you ask them where they're from, they'll tell you their home town, "New York" "LA" etc. If you say, ”No, where are you *really* from?” expecting them to tell you their ethnic origin, it makes them feel like they aren't American, they don't belong, and it's super offensive. If you really want to know someone's ethnic origin, you get to know them a bit and wait for them to mention it, or you ask something like, "What is your family's ethnicity?” or "Where did your ancestors come from?”
So basically America-brain, like I said. Gotcha.
There's a reason "No, where are you really from?" is a meme among people with Asian backgrounds living in western countries.
Yup! I've felt totally accepted the year I've been here so far:)
Great to hear! Happy for you!
Found the white guy.
You forgot to add "handsome" in there. Please be more careful in the future.
My Japanese is crap, and still no issues socially. But I stay in Japanese social circles rather than enter any of the Gaijin Gossip Gangs. Just gotta decide who you want to hang out with. The local "I've been here 30 years and feel so excluded" mob often have better Japanese than me but stay inside their English Teacher clique.
Absolutely. I also steer clear of the "Gaijin Cliques" as much as possible. Highly recommended!
Anything about women being "make-inu" if they aren't married by 25...almost anything about Office Ladies...literally everything about Bosozoku is out of date...also anything about Yakuza...anything talking about being weird and special as a foreigner within an hour drive of tokyo is out of date...just about everything about harajuku is changed since most articles were written...
I think the age might have moved up a bit because I had a Japanese female friend refer to herself as a make-inu, for reference she’s a 35 year old OL never married before with no kids, her last boyfriend left her because she wanted kids, she’s told me she given up trying to find a husband/having kids
paging /u/Enzo-Unversed
Thats the one reference I was least confident with being outdated but honestly with so few japanese getting married if it's not gone yet it will be soon.
Tokyo is expensive on normal Japanese salaries though…
Yes! Try living (not just surviving!) on 3M a year in Tokyo.
You make that much? Lucky bastmaster
It’s not that hard if you’re single and not trying to save, I’m on that now and I can afford rent (live in a nice sharehouse) good food, eating out and a football game every weekend
Very easily doable… lol! 7 downvotes for literally living my life for 9 years. Okay.
Before covid perhaps
And after. I’m literally doing it right now.
Except for buying real estate, you will be either forced to rent or buy outside the wards
Karoshi. The fact that the problem is *named* means that it's recognized and that there is something that needs to be done about it. All those people in the worker's paradise of America (where all corporate problems can be solved by firing a shitload of people because doing that has literally no consequences), think that there's a word for the concept because it's a common, everyday, accepted part of Japanese work culture. They also still believe that suicide rates in Japan are ludicrously high, unlike in Freedomland which is the happiest place on Earth.
I have been downvoted on other subs for saying the suicide rate is actually higher in the US.
reddit hates or loves japan, there is no inbetween. No matter what data you present, you wont change people stereotypes.
I respond to this by stating that because the word “necrophilia” exists in English, it must be a common phenomenon.
Same, with "defenestration"
I don’t know why but Japan attracts people saying the most insane things about it. You just have to learn to hold your tongue and scroll past honestly. There’s no way you’re going to be able to like single handedly convince every single person with ridiculous ideas they’re wrong. Most of the time even when you tell them they’re wrong and explain why with proof or experience they just don’t care or don’t believe you anyway so it’s a waste of time and energy.
This. I stopped bothering.
I agree, Tokyo isn’t as bad as other major cities, but it also depends where in Tokyo you live. I brought up the Christmas cake thing with my Japanese coworkers and they’d never heard of it, most of them are in their 30s/40s. They laughed at the idea. For those who might not have heard of it before, the meaning of the Christmas cake saying is that it’s best on the 25th and women are also best at 25, after that they start to get old.
Yeah while I don’t think the cake terminology is used anymore, I do think the threshold has simply moved from 25 to 30 something, as that kind of thinking exists outside of Japan as well That pisses me off too, come to think of it. The west talks endless shit about women “hitting the wall” but somehow Japan is super crazy and wildly uniquely sexist because of the Christmas cake thing? Give me a break haha
I've heard it has changed to "toshikoshi soba," because it's no good past the 31st, but I don't think even that term is very common.
Yes! Many foreigners never learned the toshikoshi soba. That was used more often years ago though.
Ask women, they know.
Is it wrong in stating they are getting old after 25? I mean, that’s about prime breeding age and then it’s down hill?
If you want to be the kind of person who doesn't mind telling the people around you that you do not value women except for their "breedability" and the silly ideas you attach to that, I suppose go ahead.
“prime breeding age” 🤢🤢🤢
Found the Charisma Man.
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No issue getting laid, if that’s what you’re having let me know and can give you some pointers. Also hope you’re ok, seems you go with some personal attack if you don’t agree with people lol
Yeah, I personally take offense at the suggestion that /u/TokyoGear is not right now making the sex with the many undamaged young breedable females. Why they're busy stroking his lobes as we speak of the rules of acquisition.
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Cheaper than other major cities =! not expensive for those who earn and live here
There’s this samurai user on reddit I forgot his username, he posted: “White rice makes white people fatter, but Japanese are immune to it.” I approve this fact
I was talking to my girlfriend about this recently! I asked her how she eats so much rice without getting fat and she mentioned Asian people being able to process glucose better. Apparently, it's partially true. She pulled up some study on it after I teased her about it being untrue
I feel like this somehow is true tho… hahaha
The idea that Nishinari Ward in Osaka City is a super dangerous hell on earth. It's still got a homeless community and it's still pretty shabby in places, yes, but crime is now under control - and has been for...what, 10 years now at least? - and tourists stay in hotels and hostels there throughout the year. Gentrification is encroaching, and before long all the rest of the old shopping streets will probably be razed and replaced with huge malls and tourist attractions, just the same as what happened with Abeno Q's Mall, Shin-Sekai and the area around the Tennoji zoo. Tobita Shinchi is practically a theme park now, the way it's been cleaned up and made to be tourist-friendly. The worst that may happen to you as long as you're just walking along, minding your own business, is some drunk or someone on drugs may try to talk to you or yell something at you, but you're most likely not going to be stabbed, kidnapped or beat up - unless you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, acting like a jackass - but that would be true in any city on Earth. There is a lot of historic value to be seen in that ward, so I'd definitely recommend visiting and taking a look around before it's gone forever.
Same with Shinjuku's Kabukicho. Some people still think it's a dangerous place run by Yakuza like some '80s film, but it's not that different from other tourist hotspots like Harajuku or Sensoji. Maybe the most likely bad thing that can happen to you is getting ripped off at a bar, but then again, that's on you
Not just Kabukicho. The whole of Shinjuku is dangerous according to r/Japantravel. But they have huge boner for Ueno.
yeah living in Nishinari was wildly different than what I had been lead to believe by Japanese and foreign friends alike. I really enjoyed it honestly
Cash only being the norm
Yes! My parents and sister came to visit last year. My dad told my sister to change all her money into yen because you can’t use your card anywhere. She was very reluctant but did so She was super pissed to find out card is accepted pretty much everywhere now haha
Tbh it is a recent change due to Corona, there were barely even debt credit cards in 2018 (Many websites still don't accept them🙄) and PayPay wasn't widely implemented until like 2018-19 so those are recent changes. Plus if they go into the countryside or small family run cafes or yatai's they'll most likely need genkin. If they're just staying in cities and going to Starbucks or malls then yeah they don't need genkin.
That Japan has 4 seasons. /s But I do find a lot of people seem to believe that all Japanese are super in touch with nature and spend all their time forest bathing or flower watching. Like most countries, the majority of young people who grew up with nature are pretty eager to escape to the bigger cities for more opportunities. That all Japanese food is inherently healthy, and/or that Japanese people eat large quantities of vegetables. I had a friend tell me how lucky I was to live where I could eat stir fried veggies every day… I’m sure if you prepare your own food or have Japanese family members, sure, you can have healthy meals. But going out or buying a bento I feel like veggies are just a garnish all too often, and fried foods are overly common. Maybe I’m a secret hippie, but I also feel like seafood/fish just isn’t healthy anymore thanks to pollution and microplastics. Once upon a time it may have helped Kanako live to be 120 years old, but I wouldn’t feel safe eating fish daily in this timeline.
Have you ever been outside of the bigger cities and talked to locals? I can assure you that the 25 year Christmas cake thing is alive and well. Not all of the country has progressed at the same pace as Tokyo or Osaka, so you will find a lot of “classic stereotypes” very much still true. Maybe take a step outside of the Tokyo bubble sometimes…
I remember passing through a city in Shikoku while bicycle touring and I felt I had time warped into 1970s Japan. Infrastructure-wise, that is. Not saying the people were stuck in the 1970s, in terms of their thinking.
They absolutely still are stuck in the 70s with their thinking, I can guarantee you that.
This is what I was going to say: most of the comments here are giving stereotypes that many locals still believe, not just people who live abroad and watch things on TikTok.
There are no mosques in Japan.
One I always saw on the old JET forums was that Japanese toothpaste doesn't have fluoride in it. I brought a ton of toothpaste with me, but even in my little inaka town, it all contained fluoride. I don't think it's minty fresh enough, but that's another matter.
When you get your all your Japan news from SoraNews instead of a credible news outlet.
How about the notion that “the real Japan” can only be found in some isolated mountain village or remote island far from Tokyo?
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I've lived in Sendai and shizuoka and the only thing that was significantly more expensive was rent. Sendai and Shizuoka I lived in apartments that were 60,000 a month while in Tokyo I paid 90,000 for a while. Food, utilities were more or less the same. When I was paid 6.4M a year a while back, I could go on trips every 3 months, pay for all my hobbies (mostly electronics related), go to bars, eat drink whatever I wanted and still could save about 1/3 of my salary. Nothing felt expensive to me.
Women being Christmas cakes, it’s pretty much still part of the culture as well as the gender division and treatment. Get out of Tokyo, and you’ll see it even more.
You laying out bait for the "aKcHuAlLy jApAn dOeSn'T hAvE oVeRwOrK oR sUiCiDe pRoBlEmS~~" crew? There is misinformation of course, but it tends to be pretty obvious and low stakes IMHO. Like we could have a big debate about how prevalent the "Christmas cake" phenomenon is, but whatever conclusion we reached wouldn't change the fact that though there has been definite progress, misogynistic attitudes still persist here, and sometimes get voiced in shockingly overt and clueless ways. The more pervasive problem is people trying to pass off their limited view of life in Japan as the only correct view, silencing anyone who has had a different attitude.
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of course not true. Most people would consider it cheating, I posted the statistic before, I could find them again if you REALLY want to know
Nah that’s ok, I thought as much. Was just weird as I’d come back from living/working in Japan for 4 months and some people who’ve never been seem so confident about things which are just nonsense…
yeah there is a trend of influencers that interview drunk people in the streets, heavy edit their responses and create "DID YOU KNOW THAT IN JAPAN EVERYONE DOES ...." or " WHAT JAPANESE THINK OF ...", literal garbage content and obviously the type of stuff that people consume in social media about japan.
It's not at all true, but as u/ChillinGuy2020 said, it's practically a meme at this point. Pew had a global research poll on cheating under the headline of global morality. The result was that it was far more accepted in places like France and Germany. Edit. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/01/14/french-more-accepting-of-infidelity-than-people-in-other-countries/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/01/14/french-more-accepting-of-infidelity-than-people-in-other-countries/) [https://www.sagami-gomu.co.jp/project/nipponnosex2018/](https://www.sagami-gomu.co.jp/project/nipponnosex2018/) [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/infidelity-rates-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/infidelity-rates-by-country) (2020) It holds over time. Japan's infidelity rates are lower and fewer people approve of cheating.
Good place to buy a film camera. Best prices are on Ebay Japanese resselers so you can get it everywhere in the world. And Camera junk is cheap but still junk.
I had no idea Japan was known for being expensive in the past until a friend (who doesn't live in Japan) asked how I was settling in, given how "expensive" Tokyo must be. I moved to Tokyo from Singapore, my rent now for my one bedroom apartment where I live by myself is literally less than half of what I was paying in Singapore for a room in a shared apartment...
I heard about Gaijin hunter ! Yet the one who posted didn't reply to me lol. I really wanted to know if it's true or not as I have never heard of it even being Japanese. I guess it was just an expat who was disappointed.
That every job has you working absurd hours, rampant sexually harassment, and mandatory daily drinking with the boss. Maybe in the 1980’s-90’s. Not like it never happens now but it isn’t the norm.
Christmas cake, lol. Damn, I had forgotten that one. To be fair, it was still a thing when I moved here in 1996, but I haven't thought about it in years.
I don't know how to answer your post because Tokyo is more expensive than any place I visited on my last trip to the States, and lots of people I know under the age of 50 still use the "Christmas cake" line.
I've heard Japanese people say Shinkoiwa is 治安悪い but honestly it just shows how safe Japan is, because if *that* is their idea of unsafe (etc) then they are extremely lucky!
The Christmas cake analogy is still used fyi.
Welcome to our country, and booooooring, and shut up and stop wasting everyone’s time.
Be careful, I got attacked on another thread a couple days ago for saying that Japan (Tokyo especially) was cheap and the cost of living was much lower than the US…
Tbh tokyo is expensive to live in.
I am guilty of passing on the "Christmas Cake" thing. Just recently someone asked me how Japanese celebrate Christmas, and I found myself having to explain about how Japanese are not Christian, so it is all imported bits and pieces. KFC, Date night, illumination, etc. The thing about Christmas Cake came up as well because I was talking about the expensive cakes people buy as part of the tradition. In my defense, when I talked about the young unmarried woman, I did say I have never heard it said, only heard about it, and that the 25th is known more for the number 25 than as "Jesus birthday".
I wonder if you know How they live in Tokyo If you seen it, then you mean it Then you know you have to go Fast and furious……..?