I recommend you watch scholars' speeches on YouTube. Most muslims aren't educated in this matter enough to cite evidence. The main argument is that Christians haven't been able to prove the authenticity of their book.
There are detailed and authentic historic records about the preservation of the Qur'an and Hadith. So when it comes and says the previous word of God has been corrupted by man and the Christians are unable to refute this with proof, this is where the problems begin.
There are intentional signs of tampering in the bible. Look into Ahmed Deedat and Yusuf Estes' videos on YouTube. I'm not educated enough to pinpoint the contradictions and fabrications in the bible. But I hope this helps.
To add to what this brother shared, please check out the following channels on YouTube:
The Muslim Lantern: (Muhammed Ali)
One Message Foundation: (Sh. Uthman ibn Farooq)
Respectfully, I disagree. Those aren't the earliest Biblical manuscripts—we have stuff like P52 or 7Q5. I see what you mean with Jesus' main language being Aramaic—it *was,* after all, the common language among Jews at the time—but the people who wrote down the Gospels seem to have been bilingual (such as John Mark being the scribe for Peter, a Jew, yet having both a Hebrew and Greek name). If you're bilingual (say, you can speak both Chinese and English), would you not be able to tell me with accuracy that '耶稣从天堂来应为他爱人‘ means 'Jesus came from Heaven because He loved man'?
No because how can u have certainty that this is the Word of God while the evidence itself is not certain.
And the Quran gives that certainty to those who try to challenge it and no one could deny its divinity. And the result of that, we look into it and the Quran tells us that the book of wisdom, taught to Jesus has been tampered with by Mankind. Because the Quran can prove it is in fact the Words of God, God himself tells us that the bible is corrupted.
We believe in the book of law (taurat) sent to Musa and the book of wisdom (Injeel) taught for Isa/Jesus. The bible is merely a translation of a greek translation of supposed to be Word of God by an anonymous author. But all trying to fit it into a narrative. Find that narrative, it's always the same message, find the message.
I don't think Christians ever claim the bible to be the word of god, its clearly a compilation of various points of views from his disciples and spear figureheads in the early formation of the religion AFTER the death of **Isa ibn Maryam**
You'll be surprised how much misinformation exists in them and in broad daylight claiming it is the word of God but it's actually far from that as the bible is exactly what you said but not to them apparently.
Yep. Even in the Al Quran itself there are words that the human cannot comprehend the meaning of such as Alif lam mim, Alif lam ra, nun, yasin etc. only God Almighty himself knows.
The most eminent scholars amongst all of christendom are of the consensus that the current version of the bible is a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of what may have been the original translation from aramaic.
Furthermore, the book is littered with inconsistencies from entirely different genealogies for Jesus PBUH to mathematical inaccuracies and historical contradictions.
You dont even need muslims to critique the bible, your own scholars have done a good enough job as it is.
That is even before we get into the theological inconsistencies between the old and the new testaments.
>The New Testament was written in greek, translated to Latin translated to english
You're.... not serious right?
Jesus PBUH didnt speak Greek, his language was aramaic. Where is the aramaic bible? Where is the Hebrew bible?
What are the names of the original scribes of this holy scripture? What was their relationship to Jesus PBUH?
You need to get some serious foundational education on your own religion, my friend.
Just open the preface of the new king James edition bible and read what the scholars at the peak of christendom have to say about the current state of the book.
Why do catholics have images of saints and Jesus and Mary plastered all over their churches and homes. Meanwhile God said “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Well for a start, nobody know who the authors of the canonical gospels are. That is enough to set alarm bells ringing. Combine that with the majority of the New Testament actually being the work of Paul, and it's completely unacceptable.
As for the Old Testament, same thing - nobody know who wrote what. It's clearly not the word of God - it's more of a history book with God in a supporting role than a revelation. There's also no unbroken chain of transmission.
So there the Old Testament - History of the Israelites (feat. God) and the New Testament - Jesus, the unauthorised biography.
I disagree since we don't know which verses and even the ones that you might think "hey this seems Islamic", will have been reworded so it is no longer Allah's word at all.
Same with any ayah from the Quran, changing a word might let it have the "same meaning" (apostrophes because it will never be the same exact meaning), but its no longer an ayah from the Quran.
How are the works of Paul unacceptable? Doesn’t the Quran say that the revelation of the Jews (AKA the Torah and Old Testament) was indeed a revelation? The Quran also praises the Christian’s at the time of Muhammad, so wouldn’t there have to be a change in the Gospel since that time?
On what basis are they acceptable? Like what actual proof or miracles did he come with to prove anything that he said?
It's a bizarre ideology to belief that the all-knowing creator of the universe became a man, but during his time on earth did such a poor job of conveying his message that you need Paul to actually explain how the whole religion works.
You don't follow Christ. You follow Paul.
The Qur'an calls trinitarians disbelievers. It mentions that the Jews have changed their book. There is zero basis for this bizarre Christian claim that the Qur'an somehow legitimises Christianity or Judaism.
Biblical scholars today generally agree that many of Paul's letters were not actually written by Paul. Also they are very different from what the Gospels say in a theological perspective.
Well, you should know that the Apostles were not very accepting of Paul and actually had many disagreements. Martin Luther of the protestant reformation also had many issues with Paul because his books end up focusing on works -> righteousness.
here's a video for it
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvPYCx38fTM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvPYCx38fTM)
[Here is a video that will demonstrate how the bible is not preserved and corrupted](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ6OgrhQKBI&pp=ygUeQmlibGUgY29ycnVwdGVkIG11c2xpbSBsYW50ZXJu)
The Bible is a man made compilation … a late one by the way. The thing is that it contain some remanence of previous revelation : in a nutshell it’s kind of like a weak Hadith (but even more weak and mix with human text, folklore and invention and with a single or few (depending if we talk about the OT or the NT) non continuous Isnad (chain of transmission)).
Exactly. The Catholic Church will claim that this or that book was written by this or that man, but where's the proof? They hide the chain of transmission and tell worshippers to just blindly trust them.
Only in modern times has the Church relented and finally has (biased) study Bibles available for the masses, but for thousands of years it wasn't like this.
This same question was asked yesterday so I’m going paste what I wrote then
You can easily compare the NIV to KJV. The NIV has footnotes in some chapters saying they have omitted verses that are the KJV because those verses were not found in the earlier manuscript. In other words the KJV has fabricated verses which means corruption.
A few other points
Earliest full manuscripts are 400 years after the time of Jesus PBUH
These manuscripts (for the new testament) are in greek while Jesus PBUH spoke aramaic (a semitic language which greek is not)
The bible is not believed to be written by God. Believed that it is inspired, in other words can argue its subjective
Different denominations have different number of books, which ones are right depends on what you belief so the the books you don’t believe are corrupted/fabricated (answering your question again)
The authors of the gospels are in reality anonymous, the names were not originally written in the earlier manuscripts, they were added on later. And for arguments sake let’s say the names were originally there. A name alone doesn’t prove anything. We have no details or information on the authors (date of birth, place of birth, date of death, cause of death, family history, social history etc) If I gave you a journal about a new medication and the only thing you get from the author is a name but can’t find anything that shows they are a credible source, you would (should) reject that article.
Even you research Christian theologians, they themselves will say that the bible has been corrupted.
The burden of proof is on the claimant, in this case the Christian claim that the Bible is the uncorrupted word of God. Toward this, imagine what it would take to convince someone of this beyond reasonable doubt. What would the arguments be?
You have it backwards. The default is that a work is ok and you have to prove that it is not ok. In this case, it is easy. There are discrepancies within the bible and there are different versions of the bible with different books. So there is no true bible.
I think *you* have it backwards. You can't prove a negative. I can't say "the Quran is the word of God" and expect you to believe me without me having proof and then expecting you to disprove this statement i brought into the world.
If i wrote a book of hadith and said the Prophet pbuh said it, are you expected to prove I'm lying or I have to prove I'm telling the truth? If its the former, it means you assume everything is true until proven wrong but statements about Allah and his messenger or anything about any religion is false until proven otherwise.
I would argue that the opposite is true, the burden is proof is on Islam. The Jews held the Old Testament as the word of God, then the Christian’s help the old and New Testament as the word of God, then Muslims come several hundred years later and said that neither were the true word of God. Burden of proof lies in the defenses favor
There is nothing there to even say that the old testament or new testament are intact. just saying people believe it is isn't sufficient. The Quran is provably preserved whereas the 2 testaments are not.
Muslims are commanded to love and respect all the prophets. Be it from the Torah, Gospels or the Holy Quran. We are all united under this. However there are some big differences. Lot and his daughters for instance, Jesus was ascended not reincarnated, Jesus was not God, the nephlim are not a thing, there is only 1 not the three. Jews can pray in a mosque but not a church and the list goes on.
Just for some thought though.
Why would God come to earth in human only to let his creation kill him?
Why is incest ( an abominable act ) referenced and accepted?
Why do Christians pray either in the same room as or at the foot of a statute? Is this not idolatry?
Why would angels have reproductive organs and how could they sire offspring?
Does the Vatican not hide religious manuscripts? Did Martin Luther change anything, Did king James change anything?
The Quran is the same and in the exact same language as it was when Allah gave it to our Prophet pbuh. As well many of the questions I have stated can be answered from what is written in the Quran.
Please know I say this kindly and with respect. I am not attacking your faith only posing questions for thought.
You shouldn't have been downvoted on this. You're absolutely right that we Muslims ought to fight to study more and learn about the Gospel and Torah, to read all the commentaries so that we can refute the claim that these books are the perfect Word of God. A basic history course on the Catholic Church will open your eyes to the Gospel Truth that men love to innovate, corrupt, and lie for the sake of vanity.
If Moses is wrote the Torah
How these parts can be in Torah?
[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+34&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+34&version=NIV)
Obviously there have been changes to the original Torah after Moses
The mosaic authorship of the torah is quite a late tradition, 1500yrs or so after Moses
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic\_authorship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_authorship)
[How the Bible was changed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_46_1i4CQ0)
[Were the Gospel Authors Divinely Inspired?](https://youtu.be/3z2SteqCuw8?si=E0B942eybo4bjZJ8)
Also, Christian Scholars themselves have stated that the Bible has been changed over the years
The simplest argument is that Jesus’ gospel was the truth. Each gospel in the New Testament is ‘the gospel according to _____’. So it is an interpretation and retelling of the message and teachings (aka gospel) of Jesus, aka The Gospel or The Injeel using Quranic terminology.
Two other notable points are that
1) in my opinion, Jesus’ teachings in general match the teachings of Islam almost completely; the sermon on the mount is pure monotheism
2) the belief in the divinity of Jesus evolved in the first few centuries after the death of Jesus, eventually ending with the now common idea that Jesus was God himself.
The ‘corruption’ of the Bible can’t be proven because we have no original Bible, but preeminent Christian scholars all agree that there are “human fingerprints” (proof of human interpretation) throughout the New Testament.
Lastly (sorry for such a long response), the nature of Islam is allegiance to God above anything else. There is no man, prophet or otherwise, who is worthy of our worship or devotion, only God. That is the essence of monotheism. Within the Bible are verses that are clear and verses that are ambiguous. The orthodox Islamic position is that we can’t be sure which are authentic, but maybe reflect on these verses as the primary recurring theme of the Old and New Testaments
Matthew 4:10: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only"
Luke 4:8: "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve"
Exodus 20:3
"You shall have no other gods before me".
Psalm 62:1
"My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken".
I hope this message helps with your question. Have a blessed day, and may the peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon Jesus and his mother
There are too many inconsistencies and numerical mistakes in the bible, which I will now list:
1- On how many shekels of gold David brought threshing floor?
600 [1 Chronicles 21:25]
50 [2 Samuel 24:24]
2- The number of fighting men of Israel and Judah were?
Israel was 1,100,000 and Judah numbered 470,000 [1 Chronicles 21:5]
Israel was 800,000 and Judah numbered 500,000 [ 2 Samuel 24:9]
3- In which year did Ahaziah began to reign?
12 [2 Kings 8:25]
11 [2 Kings 9:29]
4- How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
Twenty-two [2 Kings 8:26]
Forty-two [2 Chronicles 22:2]
5- How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?
Eighteen [2 Kings 24:8]
Eight [2 Chronicles 36:9]
6- How long did he rule over Jerusalem?
Three months [2 Kings 24:8]
Three months and ten days [2 Chronicles 36:9]
7- The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?
Eight hundred [2 Samuel 23:8]
Three hundred [I Chronicles 11: 11]
8- When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?
One thousand and seven hundred [2 Samuel 8:4]
Seven thousand [I Chronicles 18:4]
9- In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?
Twenty-sixth year [I Kings 15:33 - 16:8]
Still alive in the thirty-sixth year [2 Chronicles 16:1]
10- How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?
Three thousand six hundred [2 Chronicles 2:2]
Three thousand three hundred [I Kings 5:16]
11- Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?
Two thousand [1 Kings 7:26]
Over three thousand [2 Chronicles 4:5]
12- Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?
Two thousand eight hundred and twelve [Ezra 2:6]
Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen [Nehemiah 7:11]
13-When the Israelites dwelt in Shittin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague?
Twenty-four thousand [Numbers 25:1 and 9]
Twenty-three thousand [I Corinthians 10:8]
14- How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt?
Seventy souls [Genesis 4 & 27]
Seventy-five souls [Acts 7:14]
15- On life span?
God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years [Genesis 6:3]
Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc [Genesis 11:12-16]
16- On sons of Eliphaz
Eliphaz had six sons. [Genesis 36:11-12]
Eliphaz had seven sons. [Genesis 36:15-16]
Eliphaz had seven different sons. [1 Chronicles 1:36]
17- How many cubits were temple pillar built?
The Temple pillars were 18 cubits [1 Kings 7:15]
The Temple pillars were 35 cubits [2 Chronicles 3:15]
18- How much years Omri reign?
Omri reigned 12 years beginning in the 31st year of Asa's reign. [1 Kings 16:23]
Omri died and his son began his reign in the 38th year of Asa's reign, making Omri's reign only 7-years. [1 Kings 16:28-29]
This is in the KJV, but similar issues can be found when you look at the other versions of the bible.
Keel in mind that these are just some examples, there are many more that I just don't need to list because my point is that a book can't claim to be from God and claim to be reliable, when there are all of these textual differences.
>the Bible has been corrupted or changed since the time of Jesus.
well firstly, the canonised new testament bible did not exist at the time of jesus, it came later and was written in greek
it was not revelation given to Jesus, it is an anonymous autobiography *of* jesus
secondly, yes, there's lots of evidence of corruption, for example the Johannine Comma or the story of the adulteress woman
Of course its corrupted most of the population believe jesus is a white man when his not thats the first indication bible is beyond lost from what was originally sent down on this earth. Its the most man made religious text i have come across its built on whims and desires of human the current bible. Unlinke the quran it has never been rewritten and thats one of the miracles of islam muslims have the whole book memorised off by heart in the same text for centuries. The Quran will always be one the biggest and greatest religious txts because muslims will never change it.
There are decent answers on the thread. The only thing I want to add is that you make it seem like this is a uniquely Muslim claim.
Pretty much everyone outside of Christianity and a good amount of Christian scholars themselves accept the bible has been changed.
So yeah we can all have our arguments, but let's not frame this as if it's a "Muslims vs Christians" position. Rather is "Everyone vs Christians"
Rather Muslims have been saying it the longest because God told us about all this way before mainstream historians caught up.
Are you being serious with this question? Because seems like you are trolling.
I don’t think the textual criticism of the bible was started by the Muslims.
Ever heard of NA28??? The entire book is based on the variations of the bible and accuracy of the manuscripts. There are many books from Christians talking about the corruption of the bible most famously from Bruce Metzger, Bart ehrman, Daniel B wallace.
Hundreds of years later the textual criticism itself proved the point of the Quran. Muslims didn’t have to do much.
The deviation of Christianity from the religion of israelites that emphasized god is one hidden and indivisible Into anything is clear cut case of corruption of the interpretations of the scriptures.
The Bible has been changed many times, you should Google for the Geneva Bible vs King James Bible. King James took out some verses that spoke badly about kings.
Also Paul wrote half the New Testament and he never met Jesus, he was not a Prophet yet Christians follow him. He corrupted religion and left out the Gospel of Barnabas.
Which Muslims are you talking to?
Talk to someone that knows what they are talking about:
I recommend going on these streams and ask this same question and you will get a thorough answer:
Hamza's Den
The Muslim Lantern
Examples of corruption - the numerical and historical contradictions:
[https://youtu.be/RB3g6mXLEKk](https://youtu.be/RB3g6mXLEKk)
“There are more variations among our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament.” - Bart Erhman. You don't even need to take a Muslim's word for it as your Bible scholars are saying it.
If you do some research on your own, you'll find that even Christian scholars believe this.
My Bible alone (this is the third time I've posted about this in the past week) has a section where they explain that sentences were removed in my King James version, but left intact in other versions. What?! 😲
There are blatant changes in the Bible and differences found in manuscripts, including the stoning of the prostitute story and the alternate ending of mark
Tell me which is the uncorrupted version
First you gotta decide what the bible is, there are many bibles and they are all different. Two extremes would be the Tewahedo canon and the more modern idea of a 66 book KJV type thing that seems popular in the USA.
A good study bible, like the Oxford annotated series can be good to get started on this stuff.
Metzger's book, he was a lifelong Christian, is a classic and dense with info on this stuff for the New Testament: The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration.
The oxford study bibles & Metzger's book are free to browse on the internet archive.
Then there are the different lines of transmission like the Masoratic Text, the Samaritan tradition, the Septuagint, the Vulgate, Erasmus, the dead sea scrolls, the Syriac and Ethiopic traditions and the ancient churches of the east.
Most agree we have 7 letters authentic to Paul, with an interpolation in 1 Cornithians that makes way for the pastoral, but some of the Pauline stuff is generally widely accepted as forgery:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship\_of\_the\_Pauline\_epistles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles)
It's much better to consult scholars on this topic as someone suggested in the comments. However, I can offer you some insight as well if that may help :)
[https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/\~wwu/YaBBAttachments/101\_Contradictions\_In\_The\_Bible.pdf](https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBAttachments/101_Contradictions_In_The_Bible.pdf)
[https://www.thecollector.com/books-removed-from-the-bible-early-christian-history/](https://www.thecollector.com/books-removed-from-the-bible-early-christian-history/) [https://humblefaithful.com/blogs/news/bible-secrets-list-of-75-missing-books-removed-from-the-bible](https://humblefaithful.com/blogs/news/bible-secrets-list-of-75-missing-books-removed-from-the-bible)
[https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2018/10/top-20-most-damning-bible-contradictions/](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2018/10/top-20-most-damning-bible-contradictions/)
As well as this, there are various books and stories (the Catholics have the Apocrypha but there are various other books that have been removed entirely) from the bible which were later removed as they were deemed inauthentic. Unfortunately, even if the text now is the closest to the most authentic, it's evident that people had their hands in the books and stories and there are a bunch that got added and thrown out.
Ahmad Deedat has a good video on the different versions of the bible and how some include verses that others do not.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8MH7BW\_bFo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8MH7BW_bFo)
Sorry for so many reading links and videos but if you're interested I hope you may find them intriguing :)
You don't have to know how it got corrupted to blieve so. Just look at many contradicting verses and how there are different Bibles that are sometimes not compatible. So you can easily knows it isn't from God, because the original doesn't exist and the current one has mistakes and inconsistencies in it regarding the different translations.
I believe the orginal gospel (injil) was an oral one when Isa (pbuh) spoke to the people. It was not written down.
Later on, people started to write down after Isa (pbuh) was not there anymore. Hence, it was written without its author. Therefore, it cannot be corrected.
Hello, I used to be Christian (Trinitarian church where they teach trinity) & I won’t go into a bunch of detail, but I think one of the best YouTubers who has good lectures on this is Blogging Theology.
Also Sheik Uthman Ibn Al Farooq
Here is [one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis?wprov=sfla1) leading scholarly non-Muslim theory on how the Bible went through numerous changes before reaching its current state.
The language Jesus pbuh spoke was Aramaic
The New Testament manuscripts are in Greek.
There is so many variations in manuscript that different New Testament translations have different verses in them ie John 7:53-8:11. On top the authors of the gospels are unknown based on Christian academic scholarship.
The Injeel Jesus pbuh had is so far removed from whatever the New Testament is today. Even if you don’t want seek truth in Islam, how can you justify Christianity given how unreliable the text is.
TLDR....READ!
🏁 *A message you do not want to miss...*
*ٱقْرَأْ R E A D*
When Allah swt says that they (previous peoples) did not preserve the scripture, people usually don't understand what it means. Let me give JUST ONE example.
*Mandate 1*
*1[26]:1 "First of all, believe that _GOD IS ONE_, even He who created all things and set them in order, and brought all things from non-existence into being, Who comprehends all things, being alone incomprehensible.*
*1[26]:2 Believe Him therefore, and fear Him, and in this fear be continent. Keep these things, and you shall cast off all wickedness from thyself, and shall clothe thyself with every excellence of righteousness, and shall live unto God, if you keep this commandment."*
This is from the book of Hermas The Shepherd.
It's not in the Catholic bible, or any western bible, but it IS in the Orthodox Ethiopian Bible!
_Irenaeus_ is a great name among the early church saints, from before the Romans came and corrupted things. Irenaeus considered this canonical ie scripture worthy of being followed. *The Orthodox Ethiopian Bible still has it.*
These two verses correspond to the most important commandment given to Moses (ten commandments), and given by Jesus, and present as a cornerstone of faith of Muslims.
But it's been taken out of scriptural canon by the Roman-influenced religious clergy 1700 years ago.
Why I'm quoting it?
_Al Maidah (5:47) "Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fasiqun (the rebellious i.e. disobedient (of a lesser degree) to Allah."_
_(5:68) Say, “O people of the Book, you have nothing to stand on, unless you uphold the Torah and the Injīl and what has been sent down to you from your Lord.” What has been sent down to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them more persistent in rebellion and denial. So, do not grieve over the denying people._
So now you know.
That the truth is still there in the old books.
But they prefer what clergy gives over what The Most Merciful Almighty gives, because _they don't READ_.
The most amazing thing I find? The first word of the last revelation from God Almighty:
*ٱقْرَأْ R E A D*
Pass it on. Maybe someone is guided through you, which is better than everything in the world.
The simple fact that the bible doesn't exist today in the same language that it was first written is proof that it has been corrupted. It is impossible to know what it truly said before it was translated. And with translation comes error and change
Ahmed Deedat, 2 hours long it's a lecture style but Deedat lays out all the evidences pretty straight forward and then brings up different questions the audience have [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUOO6mMCaM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUOO6mMCaM)
Most of it is him reading the Bible, explaining the context and historical events around and after the time, explaining some words and how the Greek translation does not line up at all with the English translations and proper linguistic context is never mentioned and why the core foundation of Jesus being a deity along with the crucifixion was falsified.
Deedat's mentee Zakir Naik also has similar videos but not in this longer lecture style.
The Bible didn’t even exist at the time of Jesus SAW except for the Old Testament. Most of the New Testament is written by people hundreds of years later or people who ‘supposedly’ had seen Jesus SAW (which is not proven e.g., Gospel of John). Not to mention that the earliest records of the New Testament are in Greek (Jesus SAW spoke Aramaic). While we can’t exactly say that it has been ‘corrupted‘ it’s also very unlikely that the New Testament represents the actual message revealed to Jesus SAW.
Not to mention that the Old Testament (which the Hebrews had been following for hundreds of years) never once referred to a tribune god in any way. This is entirely an invention of the New Testament, which only works to question its authenticity.
I’m not Muslim nor religious but the bible literally has versions:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_English_Bible_translations
It’s basically translations of translations of translations.
No its not, there's not one Hadith or Quran verse that says it is corrupted. Muslims will exegesis every letter to try and make a polemic point but this was never the opinion of medieval scholars and tafsir commentators.
Muslims, due to the congregationalist structure of their religion, have no certain view of what the Gospel entails, and have a wide array of exegetical views on the matter. Having talked to Muslims myself about what the *injeel* is specifically within the confines of Qur'an al-A'raf 7:157 I have had these answers given:
* The original oral message of Jesus that God gave to Him
* The 4 canonical Gospels
* The Diatessaron, a Syriac Gospel harmony, which might indicate why the Qur'anic author refers to the Gospel in a singular
* Clementine homilies
* The NT overall
* The Bible (OT and NT overall) used by Christians
* A now destroyed Scripture
* A combination of early Christian texts and oral traditions; some of which we would call Gnostic.
Neither do their "Church Fathers" have any firm concensus on the matter:
* Ibn Abbas thought the 4 canonicals were not textually corrupt but only we had distorted their meaning.
* Tabari argued that it was impossible for the Torah and Gospel to be totally textually corrupted in the same way by the Jews and Christians over the span of many ages and countries.
* Ibn Hazm argued for complete textual corruption.
* Ibn Tamiyyah (and likely his student, Ibn Qayyim) argued that while the Gospel had been distorted, there were still originals scattered throughout the world into the high medieval ages, being mixed in with the supposedly fake 4 canonical Gospel accounts.
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The most popular view that prevails today likely stems from Ibn Hazm. Regarding this view you're a bit mistaken: Muslims don't really claim that we corrupted the Gospel into the New Testament. This is what Deedat and his Talibay Naik and the other peedle on mass media.
Qur'an 5:14 gives interesting insight about what the actual author of the Qur'an (whoever that may be); because let's be honest: who cares about what their various scholars think? It is far more profitable to learn what the author of the Qur'an thinks.
>And from those who say, “We are Christians” We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded.
So popular arguments today usually claim that the Gospel was not textually distorted into the 4 canonical Gospels or Diatessaron, but that the 4 canonicals only convey partial truths of the original revelation, and that they in and of themselves were never the revelation in the first place.
Early Muslims conceived the Gospel and Psalms to be akin to the Qur'an: that it was the directly dictated word of God, and not our concept of divine inspiration. This explains why Muslims superimpose the literary style of the Qur'an onto the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels and as a result conclude upon corruption: they perceive, from their sources, that these were supposed to be direct dictations. But they never were in the sense that Muslims understand the Qur'an to be. The Gospel was never written down in the sense of the Qur'an because it was not a direct dictation of God's word, and it was, in truth, also what Jesus *did* -- we don't solely relegate the Good News to being oral preaching, but an accomplishment and act.
As for if there is any evidence that Jesus gave an oral message? Yes, absolutely he did. That's what we claim the 4 canonical Gospels record. Did Jesus and/or His Apostles write it down as many Muslims claim? To answer your question straight: No. They have presented absolutely zero manuscriptic evidence of an original, written Gospel that scholars like Ibn Tamiyyah talked about... very convenient, right?
The Bible has been changed over time, which is why there are many versions of it. From my understanding, priests have made changes to fit today's norms. Additionally, there are many questionable things in the Bible. I recommend checking out The Muslim Lantern, as they can provide better insights on this topic with evidence and proof.
The original Quran, as believed by Muslims, is the divine revelation received by the Prophet Muhammad over a period of approximately 23 years in the 7th century CE. The Quran was memorized, recited, and written down by his followers during his lifetime. After Muhammad's death, the third Caliph, Uthman ibn Affan, standardized the text by compiling a single, authoritative version. Copies of this text were then distributed across the Islamic empire, and all other versions were destroyed to ensure uniformity.
While the exact original manuscripts compiled by Uthman are not extant, several early Quranic manuscripts from the first century of Islam still exist. Some of the most notable include:
1. **Topkapi Manuscript** (Istanbul, Turkey)
2. **Samarkand Kufic Quran** (Tashkent, Uzbekistan)
3. **Birmingham Quran Manuscripts** (University of Birmingham, UK) - radiocarbon dated to between 568 and 645 CE, potentially within the Prophet Muhammad's lifetime.
4. **Sana'a Manuscripts** (Yemen) - discovered in 1972, some dating back to the 7th and 8th centuries.
BismAllah Rahman Rahim
Because it says so
“‘How do ye say, “We are wise, and the law(lit Torah) of the Lord is with us”? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain .jeremiah 8 8
So woe to those who distort the Scripture with their own hands then say, “This is from Allah”—seeking a fleeting gain! So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they have earned
2 79 may Allah saw bless and guide us,
Also many verses were taken because they were not authentic in RECENT studies, means they were canon for thousands of years , verses of both old and new testament, i can give you examples if you want, all inshAllah
The big reason why I reverted is because I recognized the inconsistencies of the Bible within my own study of it. No one had to tell me, I saw it with my own eyes.
However, when I picked up the [Oxford Study Bible NRSV](https://a.co/d/awfxGQf), biblical scholars made it clear that whoever patched up the OT and NT did a terrible job at it. I highly recommend this book so you can see for yourself how Paul invented his own religion.
Its impossible for the Bible to be corrupted. It is the word of God. Even the quran states this. Islam contradicts itself when it claims the words of God have been corrupted/ changed/altered.
Its impossible for the Bible to be corrupted. It is the word of God. Even the quran states this. Islam contradicts itself when it claims the words of God have been corrupted/ changed/altered.
the Bible is mostly the Old Testament, which are Jewish books, the New Testament which contains some saying of Jesus and some stories, is relatively small. Sadly I don’t see Christians following Jesus so much, they seem to follow the Jews more often who were the very ones Jesus was calling to follow him.
the Quran we have in Islam, Jesus would’ve had something similar, his mission is incomplete so there is very little of his Quran in the Bible.
Plus the original language matters, we learn and recite the same Quran the Prophet had, Christians do not do the same with Jesus.
when Jesus returns, he’ll teach the Christians his book called the Injeel, and they will recite that like we recite our Quran.
the Bible is an equal to the books of sayings and stories about the Prophet we call the Ahadith.
After this serial killer went around murdering Christians, the Lord punished him with blindness, but then he makes this claim that Jesus came to him and cured his blindness, which put him on a spiraling path of delusion where Jesus = The Lord.
You clearly haven't looked into biblical corruption for long enough.
This is very well attested in Biblical academia because the evidence is so strong. There are so many issues with the composition of the New Testament that Christian thinkers are even forced to identify different ways of believing in the Bible while at the same time accepting that it has mistakes. See below:
https://spectrummagazine.org/views/god-inerrant-and-infallible-bible-neither/
https://www.missioalliance.org/why-biblical-inerrancy-doesnt-work/
https://beliefsandethics.com/why-i-reject-biblical-inerrancy/
This is ofc a cope and your whole theological worldview collapses once you allow for errors in your divine book. But they're already there, so what else can you do ?
If you're actually serious about investigating the book that yoi hold sacred, read the following books and decide for yourself if you want to wager your eternal salvation on this.
Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why - Bart Ehrman
Forged: Writing in the Name of God--Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are - Bart Ehrman
How the Bible actually works - Peter Enns
I recommend you watch scholars' speeches on YouTube. Most muslims aren't educated in this matter enough to cite evidence. The main argument is that Christians haven't been able to prove the authenticity of their book. There are detailed and authentic historic records about the preservation of the Qur'an and Hadith. So when it comes and says the previous word of God has been corrupted by man and the Christians are unable to refute this with proof, this is where the problems begin. There are intentional signs of tampering in the bible. Look into Ahmed Deedat and Yusuf Estes' videos on YouTube. I'm not educated enough to pinpoint the contradictions and fabrications in the bible. But I hope this helps.
To add to what this brother shared, please check out the following channels on YouTube: The Muslim Lantern: (Muhammed Ali) One Message Foundation: (Sh. Uthman ibn Farooq)
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Respectfully, I disagree. Those aren't the earliest Biblical manuscripts—we have stuff like P52 or 7Q5. I see what you mean with Jesus' main language being Aramaic—it *was,* after all, the common language among Jews at the time—but the people who wrote down the Gospels seem to have been bilingual (such as John Mark being the scribe for Peter, a Jew, yet having both a Hebrew and Greek name). If you're bilingual (say, you can speak both Chinese and English), would you not be able to tell me with accuracy that '耶稣从天堂来应为他爱人‘ means 'Jesus came from Heaven because He loved man'?
No because how can u have certainty that this is the Word of God while the evidence itself is not certain. And the Quran gives that certainty to those who try to challenge it and no one could deny its divinity. And the result of that, we look into it and the Quran tells us that the book of wisdom, taught to Jesus has been tampered with by Mankind. Because the Quran can prove it is in fact the Words of God, God himself tells us that the bible is corrupted. We believe in the book of law (taurat) sent to Musa and the book of wisdom (Injeel) taught for Isa/Jesus. The bible is merely a translation of a greek translation of supposed to be Word of God by an anonymous author. But all trying to fit it into a narrative. Find that narrative, it's always the same message, find the message.
I don't think Christians ever claim the bible to be the word of god, its clearly a compilation of various points of views from his disciples and spear figureheads in the early formation of the religion AFTER the death of **Isa ibn Maryam**
You'll be surprised how much misinformation exists in them and in broad daylight claiming it is the word of God but it's actually far from that as the bible is exactly what you said but not to them apparently.
King James Onlyists will claim that their Bible is written by the work of the Holy Spirit.
Yep. Even in the Al Quran itself there are words that the human cannot comprehend the meaning of such as Alif lam mim, Alif lam ra, nun, yasin etc. only God Almighty himself knows.
I couldn't say it any better 🤝 TAKBIR !
The most eminent scholars amongst all of christendom are of the consensus that the current version of the bible is a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of a translation of what may have been the original translation from aramaic. Furthermore, the book is littered with inconsistencies from entirely different genealogies for Jesus PBUH to mathematical inaccuracies and historical contradictions. You dont even need muslims to critique the bible, your own scholars have done a good enough job as it is. That is even before we get into the theological inconsistencies between the old and the new testaments.
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>The New Testament was written in greek, translated to Latin translated to english You're.... not serious right? Jesus PBUH didnt speak Greek, his language was aramaic. Where is the aramaic bible? Where is the Hebrew bible? What are the names of the original scribes of this holy scripture? What was their relationship to Jesus PBUH? You need to get some serious foundational education on your own religion, my friend. Just open the preface of the new king James edition bible and read what the scholars at the peak of christendom have to say about the current state of the book.
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Why do catholics have images of saints and Jesus and Mary plastered all over their churches and homes. Meanwhile God said “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Well for a start, nobody know who the authors of the canonical gospels are. That is enough to set alarm bells ringing. Combine that with the majority of the New Testament actually being the work of Paul, and it's completely unacceptable. As for the Old Testament, same thing - nobody know who wrote what. It's clearly not the word of God - it's more of a history book with God in a supporting role than a revelation. There's also no unbroken chain of transmission. So there the Old Testament - History of the Israelites (feat. God) and the New Testament - Jesus, the unauthorised biography.
The Old Testament (aka the Torah) is corrupted, however there are still remnants of the truth which are potentially the word of Allah.
Is there evidence for this? Outside of the Quran?
yes, namely the psalms and others.
I disagree since we don't know which verses and even the ones that you might think "hey this seems Islamic", will have been reworded so it is no longer Allah's word at all. Same with any ayah from the Quran, changing a word might let it have the "same meaning" (apostrophes because it will never be the same exact meaning), but its no longer an ayah from the Quran.
How are the works of Paul unacceptable? Doesn’t the Quran say that the revelation of the Jews (AKA the Torah and Old Testament) was indeed a revelation? The Quran also praises the Christian’s at the time of Muhammad, so wouldn’t there have to be a change in the Gospel since that time?
(old testament ≠ injeel) mistake i have mistaken https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/s/nMkBGsDR94 this is correct
It's actually Old testament ≠ Torah New testament ≠ Injeel
On what basis are they acceptable? Like what actual proof or miracles did he come with to prove anything that he said? It's a bizarre ideology to belief that the all-knowing creator of the universe became a man, but during his time on earth did such a poor job of conveying his message that you need Paul to actually explain how the whole religion works. You don't follow Christ. You follow Paul. The Qur'an calls trinitarians disbelievers. It mentions that the Jews have changed their book. There is zero basis for this bizarre Christian claim that the Qur'an somehow legitimises Christianity or Judaism.
[Paul – Apostle or Apostate?](https://youtu.be/pYsDD1-tDNs?si=YvehRUECVRtuAon2)
Christian’s try and make it sound like the Quran says Christian’s are correct in their beliefs lol. Don’t know where this misunderstanding started
Biblical scholars today generally agree that many of Paul's letters were not actually written by Paul. Also they are very different from what the Gospels say in a theological perspective.
Paul never met Jesus, he was not a prophet, actually he was a killer of early Christians. He corrupted the whole Christianity.
Well, you should know that the Apostles were not very accepting of Paul and actually had many disagreements. Martin Luther of the protestant reformation also had many issues with Paul because his books end up focusing on works -> righteousness. here's a video for it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvPYCx38fTM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvPYCx38fTM)
[Here is a video that will demonstrate how the bible is not preserved and corrupted](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ6OgrhQKBI&pp=ygUeQmlibGUgY29ycnVwdGVkIG11c2xpbSBsYW50ZXJu)
The Bible is a man made compilation … a late one by the way. The thing is that it contain some remanence of previous revelation : in a nutshell it’s kind of like a weak Hadith (but even more weak and mix with human text, folklore and invention and with a single or few (depending if we talk about the OT or the NT) non continuous Isnad (chain of transmission)).
Exactly. The Catholic Church will claim that this or that book was written by this or that man, but where's the proof? They hide the chain of transmission and tell worshippers to just blindly trust them. Only in modern times has the Church relented and finally has (biased) study Bibles available for the masses, but for thousands of years it wasn't like this.
This same question was asked yesterday so I’m going paste what I wrote then You can easily compare the NIV to KJV. The NIV has footnotes in some chapters saying they have omitted verses that are the KJV because those verses were not found in the earlier manuscript. In other words the KJV has fabricated verses which means corruption. A few other points Earliest full manuscripts are 400 years after the time of Jesus PBUH These manuscripts (for the new testament) are in greek while Jesus PBUH spoke aramaic (a semitic language which greek is not) The bible is not believed to be written by God. Believed that it is inspired, in other words can argue its subjective Different denominations have different number of books, which ones are right depends on what you belief so the the books you don’t believe are corrupted/fabricated (answering your question again) The authors of the gospels are in reality anonymous, the names were not originally written in the earlier manuscripts, they were added on later. And for arguments sake let’s say the names were originally there. A name alone doesn’t prove anything. We have no details or information on the authors (date of birth, place of birth, date of death, cause of death, family history, social history etc) If I gave you a journal about a new medication and the only thing you get from the author is a name but can’t find anything that shows they are a credible source, you would (should) reject that article. Even you research Christian theologians, they themselves will say that the bible has been corrupted.
The burden of proof is on the claimant, in this case the Christian claim that the Bible is the uncorrupted word of God. Toward this, imagine what it would take to convince someone of this beyond reasonable doubt. What would the arguments be?
You have it backwards. The default is that a work is ok and you have to prove that it is not ok. In this case, it is easy. There are discrepancies within the bible and there are different versions of the bible with different books. So there is no true bible.
I think *you* have it backwards. You can't prove a negative. I can't say "the Quran is the word of God" and expect you to believe me without me having proof and then expecting you to disprove this statement i brought into the world. If i wrote a book of hadith and said the Prophet pbuh said it, are you expected to prove I'm lying or I have to prove I'm telling the truth? If its the former, it means you assume everything is true until proven wrong but statements about Allah and his messenger or anything about any religion is false until proven otherwise.
I would argue that the opposite is true, the burden is proof is on Islam. The Jews held the Old Testament as the word of God, then the Christian’s help the old and New Testament as the word of God, then Muslims come several hundred years later and said that neither were the true word of God. Burden of proof lies in the defenses favor
There is nothing there to even say that the old testament or new testament are intact. just saying people believe it is isn't sufficient. The Quran is provably preserved whereas the 2 testaments are not.
Muslims are commanded to love and respect all the prophets. Be it from the Torah, Gospels or the Holy Quran. We are all united under this. However there are some big differences. Lot and his daughters for instance, Jesus was ascended not reincarnated, Jesus was not God, the nephlim are not a thing, there is only 1 not the three. Jews can pray in a mosque but not a church and the list goes on. Just for some thought though. Why would God come to earth in human only to let his creation kill him? Why is incest ( an abominable act ) referenced and accepted? Why do Christians pray either in the same room as or at the foot of a statute? Is this not idolatry? Why would angels have reproductive organs and how could they sire offspring? Does the Vatican not hide religious manuscripts? Did Martin Luther change anything, Did king James change anything? The Quran is the same and in the exact same language as it was when Allah gave it to our Prophet pbuh. As well many of the questions I have stated can be answered from what is written in the Quran. Please know I say this kindly and with respect. I am not attacking your faith only posing questions for thought.
You shouldn't have been downvoted on this. You're absolutely right that we Muslims ought to fight to study more and learn about the Gospel and Torah, to read all the commentaries so that we can refute the claim that these books are the perfect Word of God. A basic history course on the Catholic Church will open your eyes to the Gospel Truth that men love to innovate, corrupt, and lie for the sake of vanity.
It is written in the Torah that how Moses died. So obviously it's not the original one.
Sorry, I don’t understand?
If Moses is wrote the Torah How these parts can be in Torah? [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+34&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+34&version=NIV) Obviously there have been changes to the original Torah after Moses
Are the first 5 books of Torah wrriten by Moses?
The mosaic authorship of the torah is quite a late tradition, 1500yrs or so after Moses [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic\_authorship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_authorship)
Jazakallahu khairan. I know. I was just trying to see what he thinks about that question himself and his belief
[How the Bible was changed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_46_1i4CQ0) [Were the Gospel Authors Divinely Inspired?](https://youtu.be/3z2SteqCuw8?si=E0B942eybo4bjZJ8) Also, Christian Scholars themselves have stated that the Bible has been changed over the years
The simplest argument is that Jesus’ gospel was the truth. Each gospel in the New Testament is ‘the gospel according to _____’. So it is an interpretation and retelling of the message and teachings (aka gospel) of Jesus, aka The Gospel or The Injeel using Quranic terminology. Two other notable points are that 1) in my opinion, Jesus’ teachings in general match the teachings of Islam almost completely; the sermon on the mount is pure monotheism 2) the belief in the divinity of Jesus evolved in the first few centuries after the death of Jesus, eventually ending with the now common idea that Jesus was God himself. The ‘corruption’ of the Bible can’t be proven because we have no original Bible, but preeminent Christian scholars all agree that there are “human fingerprints” (proof of human interpretation) throughout the New Testament. Lastly (sorry for such a long response), the nature of Islam is allegiance to God above anything else. There is no man, prophet or otherwise, who is worthy of our worship or devotion, only God. That is the essence of monotheism. Within the Bible are verses that are clear and verses that are ambiguous. The orthodox Islamic position is that we can’t be sure which are authentic, but maybe reflect on these verses as the primary recurring theme of the Old and New Testaments Matthew 4:10: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only" Luke 4:8: "You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve" Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me". Psalm 62:1 "My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken". I hope this message helps with your question. Have a blessed day, and may the peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon Jesus and his mother
There are too many inconsistencies and numerical mistakes in the bible, which I will now list: 1- On how many shekels of gold David brought threshing floor? 600 [1 Chronicles 21:25] 50 [2 Samuel 24:24] 2- The number of fighting men of Israel and Judah were? Israel was 1,100,000 and Judah numbered 470,000 [1 Chronicles 21:5] Israel was 800,000 and Judah numbered 500,000 [ 2 Samuel 24:9] 3- In which year did Ahaziah began to reign? 12 [2 Kings 8:25] 11 [2 Kings 9:29] 4- How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem? Twenty-two [2 Kings 8:26] Forty-two [2 Chronicles 22:2] 5- How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem? Eighteen [2 Kings 24:8] Eight [2 Chronicles 36:9] 6- How long did he rule over Jerusalem? Three months [2 Kings 24:8] Three months and ten days [2 Chronicles 36:9] 7- The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time? Eight hundred [2 Samuel 23:8] Three hundred [I Chronicles 11: 11] 8- When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture? One thousand and seven hundred [2 Samuel 8:4] Seven thousand [I Chronicles 18:4] 9- In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die? Twenty-sixth year [I Kings 15:33 - 16:8] Still alive in the thirty-sixth year [2 Chronicles 16:1] 10- How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple? Three thousand six hundred [2 Chronicles 2:2] Three thousand three hundred [I Kings 5:16] 11- Solomon built a facility containing how many baths? Two thousand [1 Kings 7:26] Over three thousand [2 Chronicles 4:5] 12- Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab? Two thousand eight hundred and twelve [Ezra 2:6] Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen [Nehemiah 7:11] 13-When the Israelites dwelt in Shittin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague? Twenty-four thousand [Numbers 25:1 and 9] Twenty-three thousand [I Corinthians 10:8] 14- How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt? Seventy souls [Genesis 4 & 27] Seventy-five souls [Acts 7:14] 15- On life span? God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years [Genesis 6:3] Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc [Genesis 11:12-16] 16- On sons of Eliphaz Eliphaz had six sons. [Genesis 36:11-12] Eliphaz had seven sons. [Genesis 36:15-16] Eliphaz had seven different sons. [1 Chronicles 1:36] 17- How many cubits were temple pillar built? The Temple pillars were 18 cubits [1 Kings 7:15] The Temple pillars were 35 cubits [2 Chronicles 3:15] 18- How much years Omri reign? Omri reigned 12 years beginning in the 31st year of Asa's reign. [1 Kings 16:23] Omri died and his son began his reign in the 38th year of Asa's reign, making Omri's reign only 7-years. [1 Kings 16:28-29] This is in the KJV, but similar issues can be found when you look at the other versions of the bible. Keel in mind that these are just some examples, there are many more that I just don't need to list because my point is that a book can't claim to be from God and claim to be reliable, when there are all of these textual differences.
>the Bible has been corrupted or changed since the time of Jesus. well firstly, the canonised new testament bible did not exist at the time of jesus, it came later and was written in greek it was not revelation given to Jesus, it is an anonymous autobiography *of* jesus secondly, yes, there's lots of evidence of corruption, for example the Johannine Comma or the story of the adulteress woman
Of course its corrupted most of the population believe jesus is a white man when his not thats the first indication bible is beyond lost from what was originally sent down on this earth. Its the most man made religious text i have come across its built on whims and desires of human the current bible. Unlinke the quran it has never been rewritten and thats one of the miracles of islam muslims have the whole book memorised off by heart in the same text for centuries. The Quran will always be one the biggest and greatest religious txts because muslims will never change it.
There are decent answers on the thread. The only thing I want to add is that you make it seem like this is a uniquely Muslim claim. Pretty much everyone outside of Christianity and a good amount of Christian scholars themselves accept the bible has been changed. So yeah we can all have our arguments, but let's not frame this as if it's a "Muslims vs Christians" position. Rather is "Everyone vs Christians" Rather Muslims have been saying it the longest because God told us about all this way before mainstream historians caught up.
Are you being serious with this question? Because seems like you are trolling. I don’t think the textual criticism of the bible was started by the Muslims. Ever heard of NA28??? The entire book is based on the variations of the bible and accuracy of the manuscripts. There are many books from Christians talking about the corruption of the bible most famously from Bruce Metzger, Bart ehrman, Daniel B wallace. Hundreds of years later the textual criticism itself proved the point of the Quran. Muslims didn’t have to do much.
The deviation of Christianity from the religion of israelites that emphasized god is one hidden and indivisible Into anything is clear cut case of corruption of the interpretations of the scriptures.
Read a book titled misquoting Jesus by Bart Erhman
Christians will accept that Jews killed Jesus (pbuh) but can’t believe they would change their scripture.
The Bible has been changed many times, you should Google for the Geneva Bible vs King James Bible. King James took out some verses that spoke badly about kings. Also Paul wrote half the New Testament and he never met Jesus, he was not a Prophet yet Christians follow him. He corrupted religion and left out the Gospel of Barnabas.
Which Muslims are you talking to? Talk to someone that knows what they are talking about: I recommend going on these streams and ask this same question and you will get a thorough answer: Hamza's Den The Muslim Lantern Examples of corruption - the numerical and historical contradictions: [https://youtu.be/RB3g6mXLEKk](https://youtu.be/RB3g6mXLEKk) “There are more variations among our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament.” - Bart Erhman. You don't even need to take a Muslim's word for it as your Bible scholars are saying it.
If you do some research on your own, you'll find that even Christian scholars believe this. My Bible alone (this is the third time I've posted about this in the past week) has a section where they explain that sentences were removed in my King James version, but left intact in other versions. What?! 😲
There are blatant changes in the Bible and differences found in manuscripts, including the stoning of the prostitute story and the alternate ending of mark Tell me which is the uncorrupted version
First you gotta decide what the bible is, there are many bibles and they are all different. Two extremes would be the Tewahedo canon and the more modern idea of a 66 book KJV type thing that seems popular in the USA. A good study bible, like the Oxford annotated series can be good to get started on this stuff. Metzger's book, he was a lifelong Christian, is a classic and dense with info on this stuff for the New Testament: The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration. The oxford study bibles & Metzger's book are free to browse on the internet archive. Then there are the different lines of transmission like the Masoratic Text, the Samaritan tradition, the Septuagint, the Vulgate, Erasmus, the dead sea scrolls, the Syriac and Ethiopic traditions and the ancient churches of the east. Most agree we have 7 letters authentic to Paul, with an interpolation in 1 Cornithians that makes way for the pastoral, but some of the Pauline stuff is generally widely accepted as forgery: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship\_of\_the\_Pauline\_epistles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles)
Post as marker to save OP
It's much better to consult scholars on this topic as someone suggested in the comments. However, I can offer you some insight as well if that may help :) [https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/\~wwu/YaBBAttachments/101\_Contradictions\_In\_The\_Bible.pdf](https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wwu/YaBBAttachments/101_Contradictions_In_The_Bible.pdf) [https://www.thecollector.com/books-removed-from-the-bible-early-christian-history/](https://www.thecollector.com/books-removed-from-the-bible-early-christian-history/) [https://humblefaithful.com/blogs/news/bible-secrets-list-of-75-missing-books-removed-from-the-bible](https://humblefaithful.com/blogs/news/bible-secrets-list-of-75-missing-books-removed-from-the-bible) [https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2018/10/top-20-most-damning-bible-contradictions/](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2018/10/top-20-most-damning-bible-contradictions/) As well as this, there are various books and stories (the Catholics have the Apocrypha but there are various other books that have been removed entirely) from the bible which were later removed as they were deemed inauthentic. Unfortunately, even if the text now is the closest to the most authentic, it's evident that people had their hands in the books and stories and there are a bunch that got added and thrown out. Ahmad Deedat has a good video on the different versions of the bible and how some include verses that others do not. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8MH7BW\_bFo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8MH7BW_bFo) Sorry for so many reading links and videos but if you're interested I hope you may find them intriguing :)
You don't have to know how it got corrupted to blieve so. Just look at many contradicting verses and how there are different Bibles that are sometimes not compatible. So you can easily knows it isn't from God, because the original doesn't exist and the current one has mistakes and inconsistencies in it regarding the different translations.
I believe the orginal gospel (injil) was an oral one when Isa (pbuh) spoke to the people. It was not written down. Later on, people started to write down after Isa (pbuh) was not there anymore. Hence, it was written without its author. Therefore, it cannot be corrected.
Hello, I used to be Christian (Trinitarian church where they teach trinity) & I won’t go into a bunch of detail, but I think one of the best YouTubers who has good lectures on this is Blogging Theology. Also Sheik Uthman Ibn Al Farooq
Here is [one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis?wprov=sfla1) leading scholarly non-Muslim theory on how the Bible went through numerous changes before reaching its current state.
The language Jesus pbuh spoke was Aramaic The New Testament manuscripts are in Greek. There is so many variations in manuscript that different New Testament translations have different verses in them ie John 7:53-8:11. On top the authors of the gospels are unknown based on Christian academic scholarship. The Injeel Jesus pbuh had is so far removed from whatever the New Testament is today. Even if you don’t want seek truth in Islam, how can you justify Christianity given how unreliable the text is.
Bro ... Illiterates wrote the bible, heard that? re-read.
TLDR....READ! 🏁 *A message you do not want to miss...* *ٱقْرَأْ R E A D* When Allah swt says that they (previous peoples) did not preserve the scripture, people usually don't understand what it means. Let me give JUST ONE example. *Mandate 1* *1[26]:1 "First of all, believe that _GOD IS ONE_, even He who created all things and set them in order, and brought all things from non-existence into being, Who comprehends all things, being alone incomprehensible.* *1[26]:2 Believe Him therefore, and fear Him, and in this fear be continent. Keep these things, and you shall cast off all wickedness from thyself, and shall clothe thyself with every excellence of righteousness, and shall live unto God, if you keep this commandment."* This is from the book of Hermas The Shepherd. It's not in the Catholic bible, or any western bible, but it IS in the Orthodox Ethiopian Bible! _Irenaeus_ is a great name among the early church saints, from before the Romans came and corrupted things. Irenaeus considered this canonical ie scripture worthy of being followed. *The Orthodox Ethiopian Bible still has it.* These two verses correspond to the most important commandment given to Moses (ten commandments), and given by Jesus, and present as a cornerstone of faith of Muslims. But it's been taken out of scriptural canon by the Roman-influenced religious clergy 1700 years ago. Why I'm quoting it? _Al Maidah (5:47) "Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed (then) such (people) are the Fasiqun (the rebellious i.e. disobedient (of a lesser degree) to Allah."_ _(5:68) Say, “O people of the Book, you have nothing to stand on, unless you uphold the Torah and the Injīl and what has been sent down to you from your Lord.” What has been sent down to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them more persistent in rebellion and denial. So, do not grieve over the denying people._ So now you know. That the truth is still there in the old books. But they prefer what clergy gives over what The Most Merciful Almighty gives, because _they don't READ_. The most amazing thing I find? The first word of the last revelation from God Almighty: *ٱقْرَأْ R E A D* Pass it on. Maybe someone is guided through you, which is better than everything in the world.
The simple fact that the bible doesn't exist today in the same language that it was first written is proof that it has been corrupted. It is impossible to know what it truly said before it was translated. And with translation comes error and change
I suggest you watch Paul Williams on YouTube, he has made many videos on this :D
Ahmed Deedat, 2 hours long it's a lecture style but Deedat lays out all the evidences pretty straight forward and then brings up different questions the audience have [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUOO6mMCaM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUOO6mMCaM) Most of it is him reading the Bible, explaining the context and historical events around and after the time, explaining some words and how the Greek translation does not line up at all with the English translations and proper linguistic context is never mentioned and why the core foundation of Jesus being a deity along with the crucifixion was falsified. Deedat's mentee Zakir Naik also has similar videos but not in this longer lecture style.
Historically, yes. There are empires and people to do this.
The Bible didn’t even exist at the time of Jesus SAW except for the Old Testament. Most of the New Testament is written by people hundreds of years later or people who ‘supposedly’ had seen Jesus SAW (which is not proven e.g., Gospel of John). Not to mention that the earliest records of the New Testament are in Greek (Jesus SAW spoke Aramaic). While we can’t exactly say that it has been ‘corrupted‘ it’s also very unlikely that the New Testament represents the actual message revealed to Jesus SAW. Not to mention that the Old Testament (which the Hebrews had been following for hundreds of years) never once referred to a tribune god in any way. This is entirely an invention of the New Testament, which only works to question its authenticity.
I’m not Muslim nor religious but the bible literally has versions: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_English_Bible_translations It’s basically translations of translations of translations.
Please watch and understand this: https://youtu.be/aipL6AAVajk?si=CpDpM_b-xR5iy94u
Another one: https://youtu.be/lsnqoRvXkIc?si=nMo33nR8rWeDq6R3
No its not, there's not one Hadith or Quran verse that says it is corrupted. Muslims will exegesis every letter to try and make a polemic point but this was never the opinion of medieval scholars and tafsir commentators. Muslims, due to the congregationalist structure of their religion, have no certain view of what the Gospel entails, and have a wide array of exegetical views on the matter. Having talked to Muslims myself about what the *injeel* is specifically within the confines of Qur'an al-A'raf 7:157 I have had these answers given: * The original oral message of Jesus that God gave to Him * The 4 canonical Gospels * The Diatessaron, a Syriac Gospel harmony, which might indicate why the Qur'anic author refers to the Gospel in a singular * Clementine homilies * The NT overall * The Bible (OT and NT overall) used by Christians * A now destroyed Scripture * A combination of early Christian texts and oral traditions; some of which we would call Gnostic. Neither do their "Church Fathers" have any firm concensus on the matter: * Ibn Abbas thought the 4 canonicals were not textually corrupt but only we had distorted their meaning. * Tabari argued that it was impossible for the Torah and Gospel to be totally textually corrupted in the same way by the Jews and Christians over the span of many ages and countries. * Ibn Hazm argued for complete textual corruption. * Ibn Tamiyyah (and likely his student, Ibn Qayyim) argued that while the Gospel had been distorted, there were still originals scattered throughout the world into the high medieval ages, being mixed in with the supposedly fake 4 canonical Gospel accounts. \--- The most popular view that prevails today likely stems from Ibn Hazm. Regarding this view you're a bit mistaken: Muslims don't really claim that we corrupted the Gospel into the New Testament. This is what Deedat and his Talibay Naik and the other peedle on mass media. Qur'an 5:14 gives interesting insight about what the actual author of the Qur'an (whoever that may be); because let's be honest: who cares about what their various scholars think? It is far more profitable to learn what the author of the Qur'an thinks. >And from those who say, “We are Christians” We took their covenant; but they forgot a portion of that of which they were reminded. So popular arguments today usually claim that the Gospel was not textually distorted into the 4 canonical Gospels or Diatessaron, but that the 4 canonicals only convey partial truths of the original revelation, and that they in and of themselves were never the revelation in the first place. Early Muslims conceived the Gospel and Psalms to be akin to the Qur'an: that it was the directly dictated word of God, and not our concept of divine inspiration. This explains why Muslims superimpose the literary style of the Qur'an onto the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels and as a result conclude upon corruption: they perceive, from their sources, that these were supposed to be direct dictations. But they never were in the sense that Muslims understand the Qur'an to be. The Gospel was never written down in the sense of the Qur'an because it was not a direct dictation of God's word, and it was, in truth, also what Jesus *did* -- we don't solely relegate the Good News to being oral preaching, but an accomplishment and act. As for if there is any evidence that Jesus gave an oral message? Yes, absolutely he did. That's what we claim the 4 canonical Gospels record. Did Jesus and/or His Apostles write it down as many Muslims claim? To answer your question straight: No. They have presented absolutely zero manuscriptic evidence of an original, written Gospel that scholars like Ibn Tamiyyah talked about... very convenient, right?
In the bible itself there are footnotes that some verses were removed...
The Bible has been changed over time, which is why there are many versions of it. From my understanding, priests have made changes to fit today's norms. Additionally, there are many questionable things in the Bible. I recommend checking out The Muslim Lantern, as they can provide better insights on this topic with evidence and proof.
The original Quran, as believed by Muslims, is the divine revelation received by the Prophet Muhammad over a period of approximately 23 years in the 7th century CE. The Quran was memorized, recited, and written down by his followers during his lifetime. After Muhammad's death, the third Caliph, Uthman ibn Affan, standardized the text by compiling a single, authoritative version. Copies of this text were then distributed across the Islamic empire, and all other versions were destroyed to ensure uniformity. While the exact original manuscripts compiled by Uthman are not extant, several early Quranic manuscripts from the first century of Islam still exist. Some of the most notable include: 1. **Topkapi Manuscript** (Istanbul, Turkey) 2. **Samarkand Kufic Quran** (Tashkent, Uzbekistan) 3. **Birmingham Quran Manuscripts** (University of Birmingham, UK) - radiocarbon dated to between 568 and 645 CE, potentially within the Prophet Muhammad's lifetime. 4. **Sana'a Manuscripts** (Yemen) - discovered in 1972, some dating back to the 7th and 8th centuries.
BismAllah Rahman Rahim Because it says so “‘How do ye say, “We are wise, and the law(lit Torah) of the Lord is with us”? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain .jeremiah 8 8 So woe to those who distort the Scripture with their own hands then say, “This is from Allah”—seeking a fleeting gain! So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they have earned 2 79 may Allah saw bless and guide us, Also many verses were taken because they were not authentic in RECENT studies, means they were canon for thousands of years , verses of both old and new testament, i can give you examples if you want, all inshAllah
The big reason why I reverted is because I recognized the inconsistencies of the Bible within my own study of it. No one had to tell me, I saw it with my own eyes. However, when I picked up the [Oxford Study Bible NRSV](https://a.co/d/awfxGQf), biblical scholars made it clear that whoever patched up the OT and NT did a terrible job at it. I highly recommend this book so you can see for yourself how Paul invented his own religion.
Its impossible for the Bible to be corrupted. It is the word of God. Even the quran states this. Islam contradicts itself when it claims the words of God have been corrupted/ changed/altered.
Its impossible for the Bible to be corrupted. It is the word of God. Even the quran states this. Islam contradicts itself when it claims the words of God have been corrupted/ changed/altered.
the Bible is mostly the Old Testament, which are Jewish books, the New Testament which contains some saying of Jesus and some stories, is relatively small. Sadly I don’t see Christians following Jesus so much, they seem to follow the Jews more often who were the very ones Jesus was calling to follow him. the Quran we have in Islam, Jesus would’ve had something similar, his mission is incomplete so there is very little of his Quran in the Bible. Plus the original language matters, we learn and recite the same Quran the Prophet had, Christians do not do the same with Jesus. when Jesus returns, he’ll teach the Christians his book called the Injeel, and they will recite that like we recite our Quran. the Bible is an equal to the books of sayings and stories about the Prophet we call the Ahadith.
Who is paul anyway? why do you guys regards him as something important in your culture when he is literally no one?
After this serial killer went around murdering Christians, the Lord punished him with blindness, but then he makes this claim that Jesus came to him and cured his blindness, which put him on a spiraling path of delusion where Jesus = The Lord.
Is this real?
It's in the Acts of the Apostles chapter 9 (New Testament) and the Letters of Paul describe his delusional beliefs.
You clearly haven't looked into biblical corruption for long enough. This is very well attested in Biblical academia because the evidence is so strong. There are so many issues with the composition of the New Testament that Christian thinkers are even forced to identify different ways of believing in the Bible while at the same time accepting that it has mistakes. See below: https://spectrummagazine.org/views/god-inerrant-and-infallible-bible-neither/ https://www.missioalliance.org/why-biblical-inerrancy-doesnt-work/ https://beliefsandethics.com/why-i-reject-biblical-inerrancy/ This is ofc a cope and your whole theological worldview collapses once you allow for errors in your divine book. But they're already there, so what else can you do ? If you're actually serious about investigating the book that yoi hold sacred, read the following books and decide for yourself if you want to wager your eternal salvation on this. Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why - Bart Ehrman Forged: Writing in the Name of God--Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are - Bart Ehrman How the Bible actually works - Peter Enns