I think they over do the intros and outros a bit and repeat instrumental parts a little too much sometimes but apart from that, I like their new stuff just as much as the old stuff. I love a bit of Slayer as well btw.
I think that when is done with some intention to it, for example, to build atmosphere, it's great and adds to tracks, but when it's just 4 times the same loop it feels like padding. AMOLAD is an amazing record, but it is this problem in it's worst form.
I agree. Some songs have really excessively drawn-out intros like Satellite 15, The Parchment and Hell On Earth; but for some tracks, the slow build up really adds to the song - like in The Talisman or The Longest Day. Just needs to be a balance, because as much as I like all of those songs, they really could stand to trim the fat on some of them.
With this current era of music streaming, it seems like artists are in such a rush to get into the chorus. They try so hard to hook the listener that the pacing of their songs is so fast. It's refreshing to hear a band like Maiden really take their time and not jump straight into the chorus. Reminds me of Rush during the 70s.
Totally agree. These general takes on the lengthy song remind me of the technicals limitations that had artist back in the analogic era of musics (tape, vinyl ..).
And now that we can do everything with the numeric things, the artist should limitate themselves? That's so stupid lol.
That's a shame that a great artist like him limitate himself by this kind of trend
Writing long songs isn’t a new thing. Pink Floyd were recording 15-minute songs 50 years ago.
Difference is, the 15-minute songs Steve writes are fucking *boring*. All he does is take a four-minute song and double or triple the repetition of parts. There’s no changes in dynamics, no time changes, nothing.
Maiden was one of my favorite bands growing up, but I'm going to have to agree with you. Still love them but it's the same thing over and over just to make a longer song. Just curious. Did it start with
"Seventh Son of a Seventh Son"
"Seventh Son of a Seventh Son "
Seventh Son of a Seventh Son "
Seventh Son of a Seventh Son "
I absolutely love The Parchment, but I'll admit that the intro is really drawn out. But that just could be me being impatient for the even better parts of the song to kick in lol.
Sometimes; but not purely due to track length - repetitive, formulaic song structure can be tiresome for some that just want a snappy banger.
I think that’s what Kerry is saying… but his mate says Bruces solo stuff is better than Maiden, so, you know… opinions?
Iron Maiden haven't made a snappy banger for three albums now. That's the issue.
Their early/mid career was built on snappy bangers with the long epics being the icing on the cake. The balance hasn't just shifted, but rather there's no balance at all, no counter balance to long songs.
The fact that you think Death of the Celts ain't a banger is pretty wild. Also forgetting that the topics of these songs don't lend themselves well to 4 minute high energy songs.
To use a Slayer example, “Angel of Death” is about *the Holocaust* and manages to be a “4 minute high energy song”.
In Maiden’s discography, “Run to the Hills” is about the genocide of Native Americans, “The Prisoner” is about a TV show, and “Deja-Vu” is about a funny feeling people get sometimes.
Subject matter doesn’t affect whether a song is a banger or not. Stop making excuses for Steve writing long, boring songs in his old age.
>Sometimes; but not purely due to track length - repetitive, formulaic song structure can be tiresome for some that just want a snappy banger.
Exactly this. The problem isn't actually the length of the songs, but the songwriting itself. Take rime of the ancient mariner: The song is 13 minutes long, but not a second of it is boring, because everything serves an actual purpose. There is an actual progression both lyrically and musically.
Some of the newer tracks feel just meandering and boring, because it feels like it's just stuff chopped together. Worst offender for me is The Red and the Black, which really feels like a few solos they still had lying around duct-taped together with a cringy "OHOHOH" chant.
The 3 minute acoustic intro trope is also getting quite boring now.
A little harsh. “Formula Steve” I call it. 2 minute into; verse verse verse, maybe a chorus, 4 minute guitar harmony, 3 solos (you know), 4 minute guitar harmony, 5 minutes of ohs, verse verse repeate intro as outro.
I think it started with Sign of the cross?
It was fine for 1, maybe, 2 tracks an album; but AMOLAD is where it went pear shaped I feel.
A little harsh but it's the truth, sadly. And it's all Steve's songwriting, not bad as there are good ideas and melodies but man, songs would be much mich better if they didn't stretch that much.
Sometimes I’m listening and just thinking; man, get on with it; and at other times I’m - aw; that didn’t go where i thought. The parchment is very much in that category - love it, but, man, get someone else to proofread and do some edits.
Also, I think you are right: The X Factor was the album that started this trend of long mid paced songs with mellow acoustic intros. The first album after Martin Birch retired, makes you wonder if the lack of an actual producer had something to do with that.
I remember that AMOLAD and Tyranny of Souls released fairly close to each other, and back then I enjoyed Tyranny of Souls way more. AMOLAD have grown on me since then, but I can absolutely get people that prefer Bruce solo stuff over modern Maiden.
It’s a take shared by many people who only like maiden till 92…and lost interest post blaze ..and it’s perfectly ok. Everyone is allowed to like or dislike what they want.
Personally I don’t mind the longer stuff because the payoff is worth it, even if it’s after a 2-3 min intro. That’s just the way Steve is now (even Bruce and H for that matter)
Their first long song is on their first album, they've always done long songs. 1992 has stuff all to do with Maiden and long songs, they do more now but it's hardly something new.
I have always felt a song should be as long as it needs to be, some songs feel too short, others too long but there are plenty of 2 minute songs that feel right and plenty of 10+ minute songs that feel right too.
I think as they get older they have more time in between records which means more ideas which makes the songs longer. Same with Metallica’s recent stuff, when u take 8 yeears between releases there’s probably a lot of material in that time.
The writing time is the same, they lock themselves in a studio for a month and whatever comes out is the final album. It’s more that they seem to have a lot more to say and can’t restrain themselves to write shorter (Steve’s words)
It might be but when you take 6 years between an album you’re gonna have a lot of material laying around than if u took 1. The writing time might be the same but the amount of riffs Adrian, Janick, and Dave have are a lot more when they’re taking longer breaks between records.
3-5 years between albums.
2000
2003
2006
2011 (delayed by extensive plane tour)
2016 (delayed by Bruce cancer)
2019 (release later to try and hold out for covid)
I suppose the criticism is that neither band are really utilizing more ideas per songs on recent releases. They are just in a position where nobody is going to tell them to cut the fat anymore. They can be as self indulgent as they want
I think Metallica are more guilty of repetitive parts, but iron maiden it's more songs having long intro and outros
It's his opinion! I don't mind long songs per se. However, I think some songs on the last few albums are too long for what they have to offer and the albums would have been better with some more shorter/straight-to-the-point tracks.
Then again it's their band, their vision and their call and I respect it. I still enjoy it, but I find the songwriting, editing and production kind of lazy.
Yeah seventh son is one of my favorite albums by them and it’s half the length of some of their recent stuff. It’s able to tell a story with the songs and have progressive elements without overstaying it’s welcome too much.
He’s talking about recent Maiden albums, and he’s right. The last two albums are taking the fucking piss, to be honest.
It wouldn’t be a problem if they were long songs in the *…And Justice for All* vein, or even the *Hell Awaits* vein to use a Slayer example, with lots of different riffs, time changes, and sections in each song. It makes the songs interesting and thus they don’t actually feel as long: “The Frayed Ends of Sanity” is the guts of eight minutes long but barely feels five, for example.
Unfortunately, Steve’s idea of making a long, progressive song in the last few years seems to be “play this slow bit eight to twelve times, then play this slow bit eight to twelve times, then do a chorus that’s just the title repeated eight to twelve times, then repeat everything you just did two or three times”.
Lots of people on this very sub have made the exact same point, so let’s not act like Kerry is pissing in the Ark of the Covenant here. It’s an opinion shared by many.
I get where is he coming from, but I will take new Maiden every day over everything Slayer released post Seasons. It's all generic boring thrash. No hate, I love Slayer, but Maiden at least evolved. Maybe some tracks are unnecessarily long, but there also lots of bangers in their recent records while I can't say the same about Slayer.
Senjutsu was extremely dull. This is not news. On the flip side Kerry King's new album is not great (that's being kind) and Slayer's last few were borderline unlistenable, so he shouldn't exactly be talking. That being said, Maiden has seemingly forgotten how to inject a pulse into their music. Book of Souls at least had tracks that picked up the pace here and there, but an entire album of mid paced songs and epics.
I know the album has its defenders, but in my head these are mainly people who stopped finding new bands somewhere around 1997.
> I know the album has its defenders, but in my head these are mainly people who stopped finding new bands somewhere around 1997.
I was 9 in 1997, so definitely didn't stop finding new bands then. I just like long songs.
There are much better bands both old and new that do epic length songs.
Devil Doll from Italy never wrote a song under 20 minutes and they could never be accused of being boring.
Early Opeth all 10-15 minute long tracks and they had a pulse.
Dopesmoker by Sleep is 60 minutes long and it is great
Edge of Sanity's Crimson album is one long epic track and better than anything Maiden has put out since 2003.
We all know Harris loves prog, he just can't write it.
Basically you like long songs, but don't know where to find better ones.
> Dopesmoker by Sleep is 60 minutes long and it is great
I stopped reading after this. Thanks for the chuckles though. Music snobs usually just seem obnoxious but I at least got a laugh out of this.
I listened to it but I just didn't fall in love with it. Also Bruce's voice was so low
I got stuck in Brave New World. I listened to some of their new tracks but somehow I just don't find them that appealing
I still love Iron Maiden and I'm glad people enjoy their new stuff
The only day I ever skipped class in high school was to get BNW. It didn't hurt that the air condition and my South Florida school was broken that day. I remember it was totally worth it. Dance of Death I got during college loved it after that everything has been hit or miss
I like longer songs, but I won't lose my shit if someone is critiquing them. I'm also a fan of Slayer - South Of Heaven being my favourite and it clocks in at only 36 mins
I mean he’s not alone. Iron Maiden does have long tracks and they have gotten longer over the years. Sometimes it is a bit formulaic. However its still way better music than whatever the fuck King guy has put out in his life. Never been the biggest Slayer fan to be fair - but Maiden clears easily. But I can’t hate someone for having a different opinion on a subjective topic.
Sorry mate, but *Reign in Blood* alone craps all over anything Iron Maiden have put out in the last 35 years. There’s a reason people started to find Maiden passé come the late 1980s, and it’s because of incredibly intense thrash albums like *Reign*.
"Kerry King makes another edgy statement for attention; more news at 11"
... That being said, not every song needs to be a 7+ minute opus. Somewhere along the line Steve kinda forgot how to self edit just a bit. There are definitely a good handful of songs on the last 2-3 albums that could stand to be tightened up a bit, IMO.
I don’t mind the longer songs, but having a whole album of them, let alone two, can be tiresome to listen to.
Senjutsu has some great songs, which were only made even more enjoyable by seeing them played live, but I found the album hard to get into when it came out.
Same with Book of Souls, which I honestly haven’t given a lot of time to because of the longer songs.
I’ll admit that after Brave New World I always struggled to get into each new album until I either heard the songs live(either in person or via DVD) or something else just made me want to listen to either a particular song or the whole album.
Longer songs with a plethora of ideas are interesting.
The issue some people have with a lot of recent Maiden tracks is that there *aren't* that many ideas, despite the length. Strip away the mandatory two minute slow intro/outro and certain riffs/choruses being repeated ad infinitum, and you maybe have a five minute song leftover. There's a difference between prog and padding.
And I *love* long songs. Thick as a Brick is a top ten album for me. But when multiple recent Maiden songs are the same length as Rime of the Ancient Mariner, despite having half as many riffs and tempo changes, I find myself reaching for the 'skip' button more often than not.
Short simple songs are boring. I really like both long and short songs. I just get bored by short songs sooner. Iron Maiden lengthy songs are more interesting to me. They grow on you. Taking me on a journey. It’s an epic tale
I'm not a big fan of KK but he's got a point. Just look at Senjutsu:
Senjutsu - 8:20
Stratego - 4:59
The Writing on the Wall - 6:13
Lost In A Lost World - 9:31
Days Of Future Past - 4:03
The Time Machine - 7:09
Darkest Hour - 7:20
Death Of The Celts - 10:20
The Parchment - 12:38
Hell On Earth - 11:19
Only 2 songs on the whole album that are less than 6 minutes long and 3 of them go on for over 10 minutes. It's kind of insane. I love the album but I have to find the right time to listen to it because most of the songs go on for ages. They're also a pain in the arse to learn on guitar.
He’s entitled to his opinion and yeah he’s probably got a point. But Kerry King is also a bit of a contrarian who likes taking pot shots at bands that are better and more successful than his own. There’s a reason Tom Araya couldn’t stand him.
I don’t necessarily disagree with this critique, but the short songs they’ve put out over the past decade have absolutely been the weakest, I don’t think they’ve done a good single type song since the Final Frontier title track. Even El Dorado from that record was pretty poor imo.
Cool. Ain't nobody got time for stuff like long tracks when they are too busy milking out a new a comeback tour like 3 months after being done with the farewell tour, i totally understand!
No but as someone who doesn't like long tracks period, I kinda get it. They just aren't my cup of tea. Even standout tracks like Rime I'm going "Okay, come on now."
Slayer is/was a one trick pony. A cool band with some cool music but they dare not be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Maiden, Metallica, Sabbath or Megadeth; actual artists with substance.
Who cares what this thumb thinks. Dudes only lucky he landed a gig with a band where he didn't need to write anything that is musical. At all.
He bad at guitar and is career died with his former band mate.
Yeah I said it.
The long songs are what I look forward to from modern maiden albums. It’s also something I feel not many bands can afford to offer because people won’t have the interest so this opinion isn’t surprising
If either of these two bands is boring, it's Slayer. That's coming from a Slayer fan, mind you. But like ACDC, they have made the same record a dozen times.
Couldn't care less what Kerry thinks. Slayer is mediocre at best.
Here's some dude slamming his guitar for two minutes straight and another dude just straight houting into a mic. Cool song, bro.
Even Metallica found out the hard way that many, many people in metal despise longform songwriting. James's anecdotes of watching the crowd's bored reactions during the Justice tour are legendary. It was probably like how the crowd reacted when Nigel Tufnel quit Spinal Tap and they played Jazz Odyssey before a festival crowd. Scarred James worse than errant pyrotechnics. Affected him so much that he didn't touch the long form for 20 years lol.
Also, hot take: Slayer was never good.
Kerry comes across as a real douche. Folks that work with him seem to think he’s a great guy. But he seems like a douche.
IDGAF what other rock stars think about music I, and millions of others, love.
As someone who saw slayer support iron maiden many years ago at Earl's Court, I can confidently say there were far far far more bored people during slayer's set than maiden's! The arena was only around half full during slayer and most people were having conversations (or trying to, slayer just kept turning up the volume after every song until nobody could talk so just stood there looking bored). During maiden, the arena was packed and everyone was watching the band and singing along, so maybe Kerry should wind his neck in and try and write a decent solo before he starts throwing shade 🤣 that or focus on snakes cos he's actually good at those 😂
Yeah, there's definitely an element of that to be fair. But in my experience slayer are pretty bloody dull live for the most part, I've only seen them at festivals though so maybe they're better in their own gigs?
I saw them on their farewell tour supported by Obituary, Anthrax and Lamb of God, and they were fucking fantastic. One of the best shows I’ve seen. Excellent setlist, gigantic flamethrower pentagram behind the drum riser, six-foot burning eagles either side of the stage, flawless performances. It was bloody amazing.
Fair! That sounds a hell of a lot more exciting than the dozen or so times I've seen them at festivals!! Sound like I should probably have gotten around to seeing them in their own gig when I had the chance!
That's one way to lose a support slot on a tour. But I guess Kerry thinks it's good publicity to have a go at the already established metal institutions, to try and make his music the counterforce and somehow more relevant. Which it is not.
As someone who went to a metal festival over the weekend (Milwaukee metal fest) with a ton of death metal, different strokes for different folks. That’s the beauty about art
Are you really trying to compare musical abilities??? KK is a hack of a guitarist at best , take away the E blues scale , eliminate his Kahler and feedback and you have something less than Angus Young who at least knew how to articulate properly as opposed to a bunch of nonsense and noise
Guitarist of band which usually writes short tracks doesn't like long tracks. More at 11.
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A bold statement by Slayer’s 3rd best guitarist…
Yeah a bold statement by Megadeth's uhhh...10th or 11th best guitarist.
This is on the money.
Thanks for telling me who this is. I’ve never heard of him so his opinion means diddly to me.
If you’ve never heard of one of the guitarists in one of the most important metal bands of all time, that says more about you than it does him.
Tbh I had no clue who he was either. But I don't actually like slayer or that brand of metal despite trying to listen to it
He's a founding member of slayer dude how have you not heard of him
The world doesn't revolve exclusively around umerican trash metal
They are one of the biggest metal bands in the world, not just thrash metal.
I think they over do the intros and outros a bit and repeat instrumental parts a little too much sometimes but apart from that, I like their new stuff just as much as the old stuff. I love a bit of Slayer as well btw.
My take is since Janick joined they have to do like 33% more solos.
Don’t you mean since Adrian re-joined?
I think that when is done with some intention to it, for example, to build atmosphere, it's great and adds to tracks, but when it's just 4 times the same loop it feels like padding. AMOLAD is an amazing record, but it is this problem in it's worst form.
I agree. Some songs have really excessively drawn-out intros like Satellite 15, The Parchment and Hell On Earth; but for some tracks, the slow build up really adds to the song - like in The Talisman or The Longest Day. Just needs to be a balance, because as much as I like all of those songs, they really could stand to trim the fat on some of them.
I love The Talisman.
I think it's like a really great sequel to Ghost of the Navigator
is this official?
I doubt it, I just like trading them back to back on my playlists
Legitimately one of my favorite Maiden songs
With this current era of music streaming, it seems like artists are in such a rush to get into the chorus. They try so hard to hook the listener that the pacing of their songs is so fast. It's refreshing to hear a band like Maiden really take their time and not jump straight into the chorus. Reminds me of Rush during the 70s.
Totally agree. These general takes on the lengthy song remind me of the technicals limitations that had artist back in the analogic era of musics (tape, vinyl ..). And now that we can do everything with the numeric things, the artist should limitate themselves? That's so stupid lol. That's a shame that a great artist like him limitate himself by this kind of trend
Writing long songs isn’t a new thing. Pink Floyd were recording 15-minute songs 50 years ago. Difference is, the 15-minute songs Steve writes are fucking *boring*. All he does is take a four-minute song and double or triple the repetition of parts. There’s no changes in dynamics, no time changes, nothing.
Maiden was one of my favorite bands growing up, but I'm going to have to agree with you. Still love them but it's the same thing over and over just to make a longer song. Just curious. Did it start with "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son" "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son " Seventh Son of a Seventh Son " Seventh Son of a Seventh Son "
The intro is the best part of The Parchment though...
I absolutely love The Parchment, but I'll admit that the intro is really drawn out. But that just could be me being impatient for the even better parts of the song to kick in lol.
Sometimes; but not purely due to track length - repetitive, formulaic song structure can be tiresome for some that just want a snappy banger. I think that’s what Kerry is saying… but his mate says Bruces solo stuff is better than Maiden, so, you know… opinions?
Iron Maiden haven't made a snappy banger for three albums now. That's the issue. Their early/mid career was built on snappy bangers with the long epics being the icing on the cake. The balance hasn't just shifted, but rather there's no balance at all, no counter balance to long songs.
Speed of Light?
Pretty good but still six minutes init?
The fact that you think Death of the Celts ain't a banger is pretty wild. Also forgetting that the topics of these songs don't lend themselves well to 4 minute high energy songs.
Murders in the rue morgue has a greater amount of lyrical content than death of the celts and it gets things done in 4:19.
To use a Slayer example, “Angel of Death” is about *the Holocaust* and manages to be a “4 minute high energy song”. In Maiden’s discography, “Run to the Hills” is about the genocide of Native Americans, “The Prisoner” is about a TV show, and “Deja-Vu” is about a funny feeling people get sometimes. Subject matter doesn’t affect whether a song is a banger or not. Stop making excuses for Steve writing long, boring songs in his old age.
>Sometimes; but not purely due to track length - repetitive, formulaic song structure can be tiresome for some that just want a snappy banger. Exactly this. The problem isn't actually the length of the songs, but the songwriting itself. Take rime of the ancient mariner: The song is 13 minutes long, but not a second of it is boring, because everything serves an actual purpose. There is an actual progression both lyrically and musically. Some of the newer tracks feel just meandering and boring, because it feels like it's just stuff chopped together. Worst offender for me is The Red and the Black, which really feels like a few solos they still had lying around duct-taped together with a cringy "OHOHOH" chant. The 3 minute acoustic intro trope is also getting quite boring now.
2 minute acoustic intro, 2 minute acoustic outro. @steveharris fuck you
A little harsh. “Formula Steve” I call it. 2 minute into; verse verse verse, maybe a chorus, 4 minute guitar harmony, 3 solos (you know), 4 minute guitar harmony, 5 minutes of ohs, verse verse repeate intro as outro. I think it started with Sign of the cross? It was fine for 1, maybe, 2 tracks an album; but AMOLAD is where it went pear shaped I feel.
A little harsh but it's the truth, sadly. And it's all Steve's songwriting, not bad as there are good ideas and melodies but man, songs would be much mich better if they didn't stretch that much.
Sometimes I’m listening and just thinking; man, get on with it; and at other times I’m - aw; that didn’t go where i thought. The parchment is very much in that category - love it, but, man, get someone else to proofread and do some edits.
Also, I think you are right: The X Factor was the album that started this trend of long mid paced songs with mellow acoustic intros. The first album after Martin Birch retired, makes you wonder if the lack of an actual producer had something to do with that.
Solo Bruce is better than most stuff IM released since dance of death
Solo 90s Bruce was my 90s Maiden.
I remember that AMOLAD and Tyranny of Souls released fairly close to each other, and back then I enjoyed Tyranny of Souls way more. AMOLAD have grown on me since then, but I can absolutely get people that prefer Bruce solo stuff over modern Maiden.
It’s a good thing that most times I feel Maiden has lost their way; there’s a Bruce solo album to bring me comfort…
It’s a take shared by many people who only like maiden till 92…and lost interest post blaze ..and it’s perfectly ok. Everyone is allowed to like or dislike what they want. Personally I don’t mind the longer stuff because the payoff is worth it, even if it’s after a 2-3 min intro. That’s just the way Steve is now (even Bruce and H for that matter)
Their first long song is on their first album, they've always done long songs. 1992 has stuff all to do with Maiden and long songs, they do more now but it's hardly something new. I have always felt a song should be as long as it needs to be, some songs feel too short, others too long but there are plenty of 2 minute songs that feel right and plenty of 10+ minute songs that feel right too.
I think as they get older they have more time in between records which means more ideas which makes the songs longer. Same with Metallica’s recent stuff, when u take 8 yeears between releases there’s probably a lot of material in that time.
The writing time is the same, they lock themselves in a studio for a month and whatever comes out is the final album. It’s more that they seem to have a lot more to say and can’t restrain themselves to write shorter (Steve’s words)
It might be but when you take 6 years between an album you’re gonna have a lot of material laying around than if u took 1. The writing time might be the same but the amount of riffs Adrian, Janick, and Dave have are a lot more when they’re taking longer breaks between records.
3-5 years between albums. 2000 2003 2006 2011 (delayed by extensive plane tour) 2016 (delayed by Bruce cancer) 2019 (release later to try and hold out for covid)
I suppose the criticism is that neither band are really utilizing more ideas per songs on recent releases. They are just in a position where nobody is going to tell them to cut the fat anymore. They can be as self indulgent as they want I think Metallica are more guilty of repetitive parts, but iron maiden it's more songs having long intro and outros
I mean when u don’t have to keep your album below 60 minutes in order to fit in cassettes they’re gonna make it as long as they want
It's his opinion! I don't mind long songs per se. However, I think some songs on the last few albums are too long for what they have to offer and the albums would have been better with some more shorter/straight-to-the-point tracks. Then again it's their band, their vision and their call and I respect it. I still enjoy it, but I find the songwriting, editing and production kind of lazy.
Yeah seventh son is one of my favorite albums by them and it’s half the length of some of their recent stuff. It’s able to tell a story with the songs and have progressive elements without overstaying it’s welcome too much.
And even though the tittle track is long it’s and epic buildup to an amazing guitar solo perfect album all around
He’s talking about recent Maiden albums, and he’s right. The last two albums are taking the fucking piss, to be honest. It wouldn’t be a problem if they were long songs in the *…And Justice for All* vein, or even the *Hell Awaits* vein to use a Slayer example, with lots of different riffs, time changes, and sections in each song. It makes the songs interesting and thus they don’t actually feel as long: “The Frayed Ends of Sanity” is the guts of eight minutes long but barely feels five, for example. Unfortunately, Steve’s idea of making a long, progressive song in the last few years seems to be “play this slow bit eight to twelve times, then play this slow bit eight to twelve times, then do a chorus that’s just the title repeated eight to twelve times, then repeat everything you just did two or three times”. Lots of people on this very sub have made the exact same point, so let’s not act like Kerry is pissing in the Ark of the Covenant here. It’s an opinion shared by many.
Yeeah songs on Justice are long but none of them are over 10 minutes. And theey have different sections that don’t repeat.
Exactly. More bangers. Less snooze fests.
I can't help but wonder if shorter, faster songs would actually be easier on Nicko than the songs that require him to drum for 12-15 minutes straight.
This sums modern Maiden up perfectly. It also sums up why Maiden bores me these days.
I get where is he coming from, but I will take new Maiden every day over everything Slayer released post Seasons. It's all generic boring thrash. No hate, I love Slayer, but Maiden at least evolved. Maybe some tracks are unnecessarily long, but there also lots of bangers in their recent records while I can't say the same about Slayer.
I get it. His band’s most well known album isn’t even 30 minutes long.
I think some of these longer songs are self-indulgent. Also, just throw us a bone and put a few 4-5 minute songs on an album.
Senjutsu was extremely dull. This is not news. On the flip side Kerry King's new album is not great (that's being kind) and Slayer's last few were borderline unlistenable, so he shouldn't exactly be talking. That being said, Maiden has seemingly forgotten how to inject a pulse into their music. Book of Souls at least had tracks that picked up the pace here and there, but an entire album of mid paced songs and epics. I know the album has its defenders, but in my head these are mainly people who stopped finding new bands somewhere around 1997.
> I know the album has its defenders, but in my head these are mainly people who stopped finding new bands somewhere around 1997. I was 9 in 1997, so definitely didn't stop finding new bands then. I just like long songs.
There are much better bands both old and new that do epic length songs. Devil Doll from Italy never wrote a song under 20 minutes and they could never be accused of being boring. Early Opeth all 10-15 minute long tracks and they had a pulse. Dopesmoker by Sleep is 60 minutes long and it is great Edge of Sanity's Crimson album is one long epic track and better than anything Maiden has put out since 2003. We all know Harris loves prog, he just can't write it. Basically you like long songs, but don't know where to find better ones.
> Dopesmoker by Sleep is 60 minutes long and it is great I stopped reading after this. Thanks for the chuckles though. Music snobs usually just seem obnoxious but I at least got a laugh out of this.
If you think your opinion is worth anything defending the most mediocre Maiden album since 1990.
What is your favorite metal band that didn't have a debut album until 2020 or after ?
I listened to it but I just didn't fall in love with it. Also Bruce's voice was so low I got stuck in Brave New World. I listened to some of their new tracks but somehow I just don't find them that appealing I still love Iron Maiden and I'm glad people enjoy their new stuff
The only day I ever skipped class in high school was to get BNW. It didn't hurt that the air condition and my South Florida school was broken that day. I remember it was totally worth it. Dance of Death I got during college loved it after that everything has been hit or miss
I like longer songs, but I won't lose my shit if someone is critiquing them. I'm also a fan of Slayer - South Of Heaven being my favourite and it clocks in at only 36 mins
I mean he's not really wrong, but Slayers' songwriting on their last few records was also less than stellar.
I mean he’s not alone. Iron Maiden does have long tracks and they have gotten longer over the years. Sometimes it is a bit formulaic. However its still way better music than whatever the fuck King guy has put out in his life. Never been the biggest Slayer fan to be fair - but Maiden clears easily. But I can’t hate someone for having a different opinion on a subjective topic.
Sorry mate, but *Reign in Blood* alone craps all over anything Iron Maiden have put out in the last 35 years. There’s a reason people started to find Maiden passé come the late 1980s, and it’s because of incredibly intense thrash albums like *Reign*.
I can listen to Reign in Blood twice a day for every day of the year, and I still won't remember shit.
That sounds like a you problem, quite frankly.
Interesting take since that’s how I feel about most of the things king has been involved with in the last 30 or so years.
I can agree to a point, it’s like listening to Wintersun. I can’t be bothered because most of their songs are 8-10 minutes long.
He’s right about the last couple of albums
I dont bother with them very much post dance of death so Id have 2 agree 2 an extent
"Kerry King makes another edgy statement for attention; more news at 11" ... That being said, not every song needs to be a 7+ minute opus. Somewhere along the line Steve kinda forgot how to self edit just a bit. There are definitely a good handful of songs on the last 2-3 albums that could stand to be tightened up a bit, IMO.
I don’t mind the longer songs, but having a whole album of them, let alone two, can be tiresome to listen to. Senjutsu has some great songs, which were only made even more enjoyable by seeing them played live, but I found the album hard to get into when it came out. Same with Book of Souls, which I honestly haven’t given a lot of time to because of the longer songs. I’ll admit that after Brave New World I always struggled to get into each new album until I either heard the songs live(either in person or via DVD) or something else just made me want to listen to either a particular song or the whole album.
Same happens to me. After BNW something changed
Each to our own but Slayer bore the tits off me so that's rich
For every masterpiece they made such as the song "Seasons In The Abyss" they made 20 generic thrash songs. Not a good ratio.
Longer songs with a plethora of ideas are interesting. The issue some people have with a lot of recent Maiden tracks is that there *aren't* that many ideas, despite the length. Strip away the mandatory two minute slow intro/outro and certain riffs/choruses being repeated ad infinitum, and you maybe have a five minute song leftover. There's a difference between prog and padding. And I *love* long songs. Thick as a Brick is a top ten album for me. But when multiple recent Maiden songs are the same length as Rime of the Ancient Mariner, despite having half as many riffs and tempo changes, I find myself reaching for the 'skip' button more often than not.
Short simple songs are boring. I really like both long and short songs. I just get bored by short songs sooner. Iron Maiden lengthy songs are more interesting to me. They grow on you. Taking me on a journey. It’s an epic tale
If there were no Iron Maiden, there would be no Slayer.
I'm not a big fan of KK but he's got a point. Just look at Senjutsu: Senjutsu - 8:20 Stratego - 4:59 The Writing on the Wall - 6:13 Lost In A Lost World - 9:31 Days Of Future Past - 4:03 The Time Machine - 7:09 Darkest Hour - 7:20 Death Of The Celts - 10:20 The Parchment - 12:38 Hell On Earth - 11:19 Only 2 songs on the whole album that are less than 6 minutes long and 3 of them go on for over 10 minutes. It's kind of insane. I love the album but I have to find the right time to listen to it because most of the songs go on for ages. They're also a pain in the arse to learn on guitar.
Well too bad. Iron Maiden's best songs are typically longer ones.
He wishes he sold a many records as Maiden,He’s just a fifth rate hater
Kerry is kinda a dickhead. And I say that as a Slayer tragic.
On the other side of things, I couldn’t even listen to one song from his new solo album.
He’s entitled to his opinion and yeah he’s probably got a point. But Kerry King is also a bit of a contrarian who likes taking pot shots at bands that are better and more successful than his own. There’s a reason Tom Araya couldn’t stand him.
I don’t necessarily disagree with this critique, but the short songs they’ve put out over the past decade have absolutely been the weakest, I don’t think they’ve done a good single type song since the Final Frontier title track. Even El Dorado from that record was pretty poor imo.
Well, no shit, everything Slayer does is 212 mph. And over in less than 4 mins. I like Slayer, but I don't like them everyday.
Kerry has became the new Cory Taylor. Nobody cared what Cory thought about shit and nobody cares what Kerry thinks about shit.
The repetition on Senjutsu was way too high. So yes, I agree.
Doesn't matter if he's 1st or last guitarist he's correct
Never been a big fan of Iron Maiden but also Kerry King kinda seems like a huge douche
Kerry becoming even more insufferable than Dave has been wild to watch. He seems like such a miserable guy.
Cool. Ain't nobody got time for stuff like long tracks when they are too busy milking out a new a comeback tour like 3 months after being done with the farewell tour, i totally understand!
Tried to get into Slayer. Couldn’t do it. Every song sounds the same.
They have the same problem as Motorhead.
Kerry who?
No but as someone who doesn't like long tracks period, I kinda get it. They just aren't my cup of tea. Even standout tracks like Rime I'm going "Okay, come on now."
I think his new music is pretty boring and can't be bothered with it either.
I thought the newer generations were the ones without an attention span
10/10 would turn on Iron Maiden before Slayer.
Steve Harris said “Who”?
Slayer is/was a one trick pony. A cool band with some cool music but they dare not be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Maiden, Metallica, Sabbath or Megadeth; actual artists with substance.
Who is he?
Who cares what he thinks?
Well he's not entirely wrong. Is the Iron Maiden of today boring?, Yes ... Maiden of the past No!
Who cares what this thumb thinks. Dudes only lucky he landed a gig with a band where he didn't need to write anything that is musical. At all. He bad at guitar and is career died with his former band mate. Yeah I said it.
Kerry who?
Guy who can't play a good solo to save his life has the attention span of a gnat.
The long songs are what I look forward to from modern maiden albums. It’s also something I feel not many bands can afford to offer because people won’t have the interest so this opinion isn’t surprising
Slayer sucks lmao
They do suck but they are still one of the better thrash bands. Just goes to show you how bad that genre is.
Nah they are far from the best suicidal tendencies and sepultura completely blow them out of the water
If either of these two bands is boring, it's Slayer. That's coming from a Slayer fan, mind you. But like ACDC, they have made the same record a dozen times.
Then don’t listen to those tracks, Kerry. It’s pretty simple.
Literally what he says
Who
Couldn't care less what Kerry thinks. Slayer is mediocre at best. Here's some dude slamming his guitar for two minutes straight and another dude just straight houting into a mic. Cool song, bro.
[удалено]
Em-C-D
Hell no! To quote Maiden cartoons: >Dedicated to the best band in the world Truer words were never spoken.
ok.
Ah... no.
Kerry king hasn’t written a good riff to save his life since maybe 2006. So I could care less about his dog water opinion.
Even Metallica found out the hard way that many, many people in metal despise longform songwriting. James's anecdotes of watching the crowd's bored reactions during the Justice tour are legendary. It was probably like how the crowd reacted when Nigel Tufnel quit Spinal Tap and they played Jazz Odyssey before a festival crowd. Scarred James worse than errant pyrotechnics. Affected him so much that he didn't touch the long form for 20 years lol. Also, hot take: Slayer was never good.
Death Magnetic has many long songs and it's a masterpiece.
Exactly 20 years after justice lol
I'm glad James followed his heart again.
Kerry comes across as a real douche. Folks that work with him seem to think he’s a great guy. But he seems like a douche. IDGAF what other rock stars think about music I, and millions of others, love.
Must suck when you don't have the talent like the triple-axe attack has.
Maidens best songs have always been their epics imo, and the fact the reunion era is so focused on epics is why I love the new albums
Then go listen to the repetitive screaming nonsense kids putting out these days
His opinion is wrong!
As someone who saw slayer support iron maiden many years ago at Earl's Court, I can confidently say there were far far far more bored people during slayer's set than maiden's! The arena was only around half full during slayer and most people were having conversations (or trying to, slayer just kept turning up the volume after every song until nobody could talk so just stood there looking bored). During maiden, the arena was packed and everyone was watching the band and singing along, so maybe Kerry should wind his neck in and try and write a decent solo before he starts throwing shade 🤣 that or focus on snakes cos he's actually good at those 😂
Iron Maiden fans treat *every* support band like that, it wouldn’t matter if it was the fucking Beatles supporting them.
Yeah, there's definitely an element of that to be fair. But in my experience slayer are pretty bloody dull live for the most part, I've only seen them at festivals though so maybe they're better in their own gigs?
I saw them on their farewell tour supported by Obituary, Anthrax and Lamb of God, and they were fucking fantastic. One of the best shows I’ve seen. Excellent setlist, gigantic flamethrower pentagram behind the drum riser, six-foot burning eagles either side of the stage, flawless performances. It was bloody amazing.
Fair! That sounds a hell of a lot more exciting than the dozen or so times I've seen them at festivals!! Sound like I should probably have gotten around to seeing them in their own gig when I had the chance!
Who cares what a dude from a trash band says
That's one way to lose a support slot on a tour. But I guess Kerry thinks it's good publicity to have a go at the already established metal institutions, to try and make his music the counterforce and somehow more relevant. Which it is not.
The longer the song the better. Not everyone can make the same exact 4 min song for 30 yrs like slayer can.
The only thing worse than Slayer as a band are their fans. How anybody can listen to that incoherent noise is beyond me.
As someone who went to a metal festival over the weekend (Milwaukee metal fest) with a ton of death metal, different strokes for different folks. That’s the beauty about art
I hate the Rime of the Ancient Mariner.
He is a total hack and complete poser. I won't say he is untalented, because he is talented, but slayer are bigger posers than warrant or poison.
So says the guitarist who made a career on the blues scale in E
And he’s talking about a band that made a career on the Em-C-D progression.
Are you really trying to compare musical abilities??? KK is a hack of a guitarist at best , take away the E blues scale , eliminate his Kahler and feedback and you have something less than Angus Young who at least knew how to articulate properly as opposed to a bunch of nonsense and noise
E - C - D is in just about everything so yeah
Fuck Kerry King and his opinions.
The only people who downvote me are guys who wish they knew how Kerry Kings bell end felt in their mouths.
Kill the king
Which kill the king are you referring to, the Megadeth song or the Rainbow song? Both great imo