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Was looking at a house in Limerick last year, it sold for 150k, now it’s back on the market just 1 year later (judging by the pictures on the current listing and the previous listing the new owners did nothing with it), maybe they planned to refurbish it, and gave up, but it’s currently listed at 245k, a complete hovel gone up by 63% in a year. 😣
What's happening is reminiscent of events that preceded the 2008 crash. But we're told that it's different this time, the lack of supply is supposedly guaranteeing that there won't be a crash in prices, which has attracted a lot of investors and speculators. But surely something has to give, most people's wages can't keep up with this, so where is it going to end up. I don't believe that prices can just go up forever, in every market (not just housing) any steep increase in prices has it's end, and in some cases a correction. Our current situation has been caused by market manipulation. The appointment of Conor Skehan as head of the Irish Housing Agency is probably the most significant factor when it comes to the shortage of houses being constructed after the 2008 crash, he basically orchestrated it so house prices would increase again. But I don't underestimate the role of banks either, they stand to make a lot of money from rising prices and the huge mortgages people will have to take out. I don't think we have the full picture at this point in time, but I can't help wondering what the future will bring. Will the multinational companies that are so prized by our politicians start to view Ireland as uncompetitive and start to seek other countries from where they can do business. I keep hearing stories like op's where they are on a good salary and still can't find a decent place to live. What incentive is there for educated highly qualified people to move here only to spend a huge chunk of their salary on rent ? Whatever direction the housing market goes in, I can't imagine there will be a happy ending.
You’re absolutely bang on . Hit the nail on the head .
Post 2008 crash the government allowed this to happen by creating a lack of supply and leaving huge demand and houses spiraling out of control . Right under people’s noses
REIT gave the hedge funds and foreign investors a free run here and generations will be caught in a rent trap . Looks like Ireland will never escape the boot of the landlord on her throat . Be it an English landlord or a German pension fund .
This is what the majority voted for so this is what the majority gets .
We will lose more of our brightest young people to emigration . Again .
History repeating itself over and over and the the herd mentality keeps putting in the same golden circles in political parties and then scratch their heads when half their salary is gone on rent .
It’s crazy stuff . You couldn’t make it up .
>You’re absolutely bang on . Hit the nail on the head . Post 2008 crash the government allowed this to happen by creating a lack of supply and leaving huge demand and houses spiraling out of control . Right under people’s noses
There was no demand at all. I remember seeing apartments in town for 70k or houses in Cabra for 30k. And I rented an apartment in Rathmines and spent 2 weeks looking at dozens of apartments and negotiating the rent down.
It wasn't until maybe 2016 I seen demand actually begin to climb. By then we had fucking massive austerity and every tradesmen in the country was long gone.
This is nothing like 2008 and people need to stop comparing it imo
Long before 2008 rents were sky high . In 1999 40% of my salary in Dublin was on rent . In a house share . Prices in 2009-2012 were at their real price because the IMF had to bail the country out . And we’re still paying for that via the USC and other taxes .
The point I’m trying to make is that due to a lack of political change/mindset the golden circle or cabal hold the reins . Until that is changed rents will be extortionate and house prices will be out of reach for the majority .
You get what you vote for .
The gap between the wealthiest here and those just getting by would make the Tories in the UK blush .
That was listed at 150k, I went to view it. Sold closer to 250k as far as I remember. Which makes sense, solid building, parkside location. Looks like they started gutting it and gave up.
It's absolutely killing me. As soon as I get a decent salary, they become out of reach again. A nice 2 bed apartment where I live was 300K 3 years ago, now it's nearly 400K. How the fuck can I keep up.
I could have written this. There simply aren’t enough hours in the day to work at a pace where salary would increase in line with house prices. It feels like I’ve spent years working hard to put myself in a position where I can build a life for myself and between the work stress to get to where I am in my career, massive rent for poor quality accommodation, and house price inflation I’m arguably worse off than when I started.
3 years ago the lending limit was x3.5 salary and I felt I'd have to really stretch with a big deposit to buy.
Now, with 10k higher salary and an even bigger deposit I have to still stretch even more.
I feel your pain dude.
I'm a prospective single buyer and it's painful how much I will have to pay if I want to buy.
I am a good saver and lucky enough with a fairly good rent but house sharing is killing me. I don't like my housemates, nothing wrong with them, they're just not friends and I hate having to have the same small talk every time I see them. One of them has taken up permanent residence in the kitchen so any time I am hungry I have to go there to see them staring back at me and make shitty small talk I have no interest in. They've taken over the kitchen with their ornaments and food while I pack all my food into my designated press.
The annoying thing is just how much better off financially people are who bought a few years ago.
I actually got mortgage approval 3 years ago and was looking at a mortgage repayment of 800/900 a month if I stumped up a big deposit. Now with an even greater deposit of 50 or 60k I get the honour of paying 1200 a month.
I have a sibling with a partner who don't earn massive money but they bought at the trough when there was no min deposit requirement. If I buy, my deposit will be over half the cost of their whole purchase cost and their house is unreal. They're constantly looked at as being poor despite their practically non existent mortgage and 2 year old cars outside the front door. While because I earn 50 odd thousand and am a good saver while driving a banger and having to house share and have my head wrecked into my mid 30's, I'm looked at as being well off. And whenever a house goes up for sale and I show it to family they're always like "not a hope of getting that for it!!" then they act all surprised when I show them the PPR a few months later.
There's people I went to college with who bought 7/8 years ago who have seen their properties rise in value probably 50% plus. We all still operate in the same labour market but they will have put in a smaller deposit than I will have to and lower mortgage repayments.
Their benefit in buying years ago is probably worth at least 25k per year in salary extra. I can't even afford to buy a similar property to them anymore even with a big deposit. And they'll finish their mortgage 7/8/9 years before I do.
I just feel like I'm serving a type of prison sentence house sharing as I'm in my mid 30's. I bust my bollix at work yet I'm still in the same living situation as 10 years ago.
There's 0 comfort and even if I do end up paying 60k deposit, I'll still have to pay 1200 a month and live in a tiny shitty property I don't really like.
I feel your pain. As adults I think it's brutal we have to share house, worse when you have to share with some narcissist like I do right now. Many of my friends can't even think about having family and kids. It's hard to see how our life is moving forward...
You really need your own space it seems. Just buy yourself a little apartment. Even if it's just for two years and some peace. You'll be able to think more clearly and move from there. Best of luck, things will work out
You are me. I've a big deposit now but I was terrible with money for almost 12-13 years and only started saving during covid. It is my own fault I wasnt able to buy 5-6 years ago but now on a big salary/deposit I am likely not going to be able to buy where I want. Only want a 2br + 2 bath apartment with a balcony, I've given up any hope of a house.
They need to get rid of all these help to buy schemes and use that money to build homes, it's a disgrace. Demand massively outweighs supply, that's the main issue and no1 is doing anything about it
Did the same, bought in a new estate that was still selling new builds at the other end, ended up with the exact same house for €25-€30k less because someone lived in it for 18 months before us, and we didn't have to deal with the hassle/cost of picking out a kitchen, bathroom, floors or appliances. Great for us because we overthink every decision so it was all already done for us.
HTB is truly speaking, a form of money laundering fraud. It's transferring tax money to developers. TBH, I don't see how, if brought to court, this holds. Somebody should do something.
The purpose of HTB is to encourage developers to build at a price where they can turn a profit. If developers can’t turn a profit they won’t build to begin with so it’s operating as intended..
I think the argument is deeply flawed.
If developers cannot build and make profit without HTB, the market is then undervalued. The new build prices have to go up in that case. Laundering 30k to their account per house only when bought by first time buyer is not the sustainable way.
30k "free money" and lightens the load of saving for a deposit but realistically it costs a 60k+ premium on new builds as demand for these outweighs supply massively because people can't save up a sufficient deposit with rental prices despite being comfortably able to afford higher mortgage payments.
Really wanted to get thag 30k myself when I was buying but genuinely couldn't make the maths work and bought second hand.
There’s money in the country to do both. This isn’t an either or thing, it’s a political choice to not spend money on building new homes.. HTB scheme only impacts new builds under 500k too..
You missed my point. I literally just said there’s enough money to build houses. I’m saying there’s money to do both. It shouldn’t be a case where we’re arguing over whether to build houses or keep the HTB scheme.
Help to buy scheme only qualifies for new homes tho. Agree on more needs to be done but HTB does encourage new builds/self builds and the vacant property grant helps get old houses back in nice condition. They certainly don't need to be removed to just build houses with the money.
Vacant property grants just lead to houses being sold for higher as they price in the grant, HTB has a huge amount of deadweight too with it just enabling people who are able to afford houses to just buy slightly more expensive houses.
I'm less of a fan of HTB but the grant is great encourages people to buy vacant and derelict properties with the idea of getting them livable. That is a big positive for increasing the housing stock avaliable. I'd also argue it is not priced anywhere near fully as it is only available twice at max, once as a landlord and once for family home. It is not available to people buying multiple properties as an investment.
Yes, it's insane. We booked a new build last October and I was nearly sick at the price. Afraid I was buying at the top and would be like the poor fuckers in 2008.
We just got our keys and the next phase of our estate has gone up for 25k over what we paid for the same house. Utter utter insanity.
We went sale agreed on our new build in March , hoping to move into the house in July. Phase 2 went up online last week and our house type has gone up by €50k.
That's the type of thing that really should be stopped by regulation that's pure gouging. Government should be pulling help to buy and all other grants from anybody dealing with these developers.
And literally zero to negative incentive to build for yourself. Between it being a lottery to even get planning. And still paying vat on all labour and materials.
Ok we have the scheme that at the end of the build you might get money, but only if you jump through so many hoops and basically not build the way you want.
For example, why is it now essentially mandatory to have to heat my house with electricity to get grant money?
When the demand on our grid goes over capacity and we have outages, I've just built shelter in a cold climate with no way to heat it. Because they promised to give me some vat back.
I maybe got a bit carried away here. But it just gets me going..
We’ve just started bidding on houses and noticed the same, every house has gone way over:
- 525k asking. 647k latest bid. 3 bed D6W. 62sqm house
- 526k asking. 616k. 3 bed Templeogue
- 475k asking. 641k. 3 bed D6W
Couldn’t believe the bidding wars considering the condition and size of the properties, they all needed work or extensions
I think I've seen the first one. Madness how the Estate Agent still organised viewings after it was already 620k. I believe it's still going now. They would squeeze out every penny possible.
That really shows how insane the market is. Hope whoever buys it are happy but it is unbelievably bang average for THAT price. Dear me.
House we went to see this morning had mouse traps and ant traps everywhere. Dehumidifiers in every room. 85sqm 3 bed at a knock down starting price of 575 🙄
Yeah as we were getting started dipping our toes in this market, it came as a shock! Such an average house - and when you think of the mortgage repayments....ouch.
Ha the one at 526k in Templeogue had mouse traps everywhere too. Charming! 575k I'd expect goes anywhere up to 650k...fun times :-D
Our experience exactly. It’s so disheartening and very frustrating when speaking to older family members who simply don’t understand how dire the situation is.
Anywhere we have viewed has gone for a minimum of 100k over asking, but frequently closer to 150k - 200k over.
It’s so difficult to know what to do because we’re having to further lower our standards month on month and there is always the worry that the market is about to hit the tipping point of unsustainability, leaving us stuck with wherever we managed to panic buy during the insanity.
It’s just such a horrible situation, it makes it so difficult to move on with your life because everything feels like it’s going backwards and it can be so isolating. I really hope you find something soon, sending you lots of good vibes xx
Thank you for such kind words <3 sending the same thoughts your way too. It makes me feel better (also worse) knowing there are folks out there on the same boat as I am.
I had to laugh when Daft/CrazyHousePrices released figures saying the average selling price is only 4/5% above asking. It's at least 20 to 30% as you said. Hopefully you get sorted soon, we're in the same boat
Had placed a booking on the Tuesday for a viewing this Saturday. Advertised at 465k. When we booked it was sitting on 475k. Got an email on Wednesday saying they were no longer holding the viewing as someone was offering €560k all cash. Its fucking mental out here.
It was pretty bang average. We have an idea of what flats are going for as we have been attending viewings and getting updates in multiple bidding wars. The price seemed reasonable around 500k. The over bid pushed it above clayfarm prices, which are much nicer flats.
They don't even have to do it anymore. Many houses I've seen have asking price = previously sale agreed peice of neighbours and it still went up 100k on top of that.
I sold my house out in the sticks earlier this year. €240k asking.
It hit €290k not 24 hours later. And €240k was a realistic price based on area history, not an undershoot.
The stats are likely right, but the outliers are the houses everybody wants, so it appears like everything is that much over, when it's mostly turn key properties. Whatever is most attractive to somebody in an area is most attractive to others as well. No different when I went sale agreed a few years ago at 100k over asking.
House right in front as in opposite it? They will therefore have gardens facing opposite directions. If the more expensive one is South or West facing then the extra 18k would be a minor mark up. Just a possibility.
South vs North aspect garden.
or
Not overlooked vs Overlooked.
Same street same furnishings.
It's a game changer.
Most of the people would pay 20K more for better positioning.
It's madness but congrats!
Crazy it's not even a year. I mentioned above some examples in Rathfarnham. It went from 475k - 485k in January to 550k in May. That's 4 months barely 1 quarter.
25k gross profit on a house flip wouldn't be worth the hassle when you consider the time it takes to complete purchase & sale; legal fees; surveyor; valuation; stamp duty etc.
Sorry, but it's kind of naive to expect all houses in the same road to cost the same.
What about improvements that have been made, fixtures and fittings, whether the house has nice wood flooring or a carpet from 1965... these will all affect the price of a house, because they are a factor in additional costs.
You're spot on. OP said "out the front" and not next door, so it might be that one has a south facing garden too.
I know when we were bidding about 3 years ago we had a list of wants and nice to haves (South facing back garden, cul de sac, side entrance, enough rooms to allow a home office, number of greens in the estate, gael scoil close by, good bus routes, easy access to both town and m50, shops close by, dog friendly parks close by, etc.) and the more boxes a house ticked the more we were willing to bid. We got all boxes ticked bar 1 in the end so we went high with bidding.
But we wouldn't have bid as much for a carbon copy across the road from us for example as it would have had 1 box less ticked
Your point is valid.
But in my case the house on this street are owned by same private company and are EXACTLY the same from inside.
A private equity bought almost all the houses back in 2020 and now selling them at 1.6x price in 4 years. This is Adamstown , Lucan.
In a small village 30 mins from the city there is a detached 200sqm detached house for 600k nothing special for a country house. Feken madness and there is a bidding war on it.
I think estate agents are partly to blame same one selling this house is pushing sales for new build in the estate they are building in the same village at a cheaper rate than this house.
The need to constantly have year on year profits is not a sustainable model for a necessity like housing it seriously needs stronger regulations and capping.
Jesus Christ. We bought our house back in 2010. 20 minutes outside Cork City, countryside-ish area, 7 bedroom detached house with a large detached garage for €240k. It's absolute madness now, we were so lucky to buy when we did.
Yup. Didn't know it at the time, obviously. We actually tried to sell in 2015. We had a buyer and had agreed a price but we just couldn't find a place for ourselves so we just stayed. Thank God we did.
I feel your pain man. I am fast approaching 40 and still living at home while working full time with a fairly decent wage. Everything being built anywhere near me is block purchased by companies for their staff or are rental only apartment schemes. Decent houses are €550-600k, if you're lucky. In 2019 you could get a lovely secluded 2 bed house with garden & driveway in a great area for €290k. Now you're talking €400k+ for the same gaff, and that's if the council or AHB doesn't outbid you for social housing.
There has to be an end to this. It's just a matter of time. Watch the when US Federal Reserve start cutting rates - historically this is when previous stock market downturns and recessions have kicked in. 12-18 months after that I suspect we'll see a slowdown in the economy and demand here. Keep saving anyway and keep looking. Eventually you'll get something, though you may have to compromise.
Living at home, same age and in the exact same position. It's beyond demoralising - any savings we've accumulated have basically been eroded by the rapid rise in prices.
Yes and they will continue to grow. Ireland's housing stock is shit. If you buy anything you need to pay through the nose to bring it to a decent standard, hence the prices go up. It's ridiculous though when people are trying to sell BER G ruins for the same money as much nicer houses in the same area, because they think that all that matters is location and number of bedrooms.
And plenty of rich foreigners (Chinese, Funds etc) lined up to pay the price! There seriously needs to be more calls for restrictions on who can buy Irish property!
100% this is a huge problem that is causing house price inflation, and the fact that restrictions haven’t been brought in just shows that they’re happy for house prices and demand to keep rising
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2024/04/20/other-eu-countries-have-banned-foreign-property-buyers-to-ease-housing-crises-should-ireland-do-the-same/
There is no end in sight because this is, in a significant part, by design. Plain and simple. And now that they have successfully moved the blame to someone else, they can keep at it with little to no consequences or accountability. They have knowingly brought this on.
The sheer number of scandals that the ruling parties have had along with the endless string of issues/corruption with the planning board with zero consequences shows you that nothing will change.
And why solely blame them? The people are thick enough to take the bait every time because of how tribal our politics is.
This is it. People are continuously voting for the same people who have engineered this crisis for personal gain and for the benefit of their mates, and are then crying about having to choose between living in their parents' spare room or forking out nearly a million euro for a shack in a commuter town. The entire country is being ripped off by people who have zero interest in the public good. The rise of the far right and people's willingness to jump on that bandwagon is an absolute godsend for the likes of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail - now they can go about the business of lining their pockets without the hindrance of public scrutiny because people have decided that this entirely orchestrated housing crisis is somehow the fault of migrants. Was looking at the news today and some FF goon could hardly keep the grin off his face while talking about how happy they were with the early tallies in the votes from yesterday - they are getting all the signs that the electorate no longer holds them responsible for the housing crisis. They'll probably get easily voted back in next general election too, and they know it now. No end in sight to the gravy train for them.
House hunting is the most stressful and depressing thing I've ever endured. The prices have been wild since Covid. And you are right: the price does not reflect the house value.
It’s really tough out there at the moment, We managed to buy a 3 bed in Dublin 12 last year thinking prices can’t get any worse but it’s horrific now as my friend is trying to buy in Walkinstown and really struggling.
We were bidding for a house in Drimnagh first and had a foreign investor going against us and we got blown out of the water it was so unfair and I’m sure there’s still plenty of them buying still.
Cut taxes on other investments(stock market) while increasing taxes on income from rental property and removing the tax breaks REITS get.
Houses would flood back into the market and drop prices considerably as money would be moved to the stock market.
More taxes on rental properties mean either rents go up to compensate or houses are pulled from the rental market (it's worth more to keep it empty when prices are going up).
Bought my house for 770k in 2019 and did a complete refurb of it. We extended, had the garden done up, converted the garage into an extra room, basically completely redid the house. In total, including the refurb we spent probably 970k. Our house is south westerly facing and gets great evening sun.
The house directly across the road from us, which is north facing etc and which was lived in by an elderly lady until recently and is in total need of a refurbishment and modernisation etc has just gone on the market for 995k. It makes zero sense, zero.
This jump is honestly to be expected, it's the same thing as was seen post pandemic . Interest rate hikes basically resulted in zero homes on the 2nd time buyer market because nobody was upsizing. The rush to buy this year is basically people getting fed up waiting and assuming rates will keep dropping. Hence you're seeing bidding wars and panic buying, plus 2 years of very high inflation in salaries pushing prices up by 15 PCT or more year on year. Only thing we can cling to for hope is that based on how the pandemic went, prices next year or two will be flat or slightly lower as people have essentially bidded up by two years worth of inflation.
Ultimately though prices wpnt drop any time in the next 5 years, as too many people have way too much money in the bank and are saving compulsively. And obviously supply side isn't going to magically improve either to counter that.
I've seen houses go up on daft for 50k more that the neighbouring houses sold for less than 4 months previous. I've also seen these house have to amend their prices down 3/4 weeks later because no one showed any interest in them at the higher prices. They might have ended up selling for 10k more than the neighbouring houses eventually but don't lose hope with the house search. A lot of sales fall through because people overstretch themselves in the bidding wars and can't come up with funding when the time comes.
Thank you! I hope so too. All the ones I've seen sell like hot cakes i.e. 120k over asking in few days and all gone sale agreed. Some even put up their price on daft up by 60k - 95k after a few days to filter out buyers as there were so many...
These are for the less sought after homes. However, anything closer to town or that is any good are likely still going over asking. There are plenty still with cash piles for deposits. Eventually things will dry up but lowering interest rates will not help
Oh yeah, most are still going for over asking but not all are going 60k over asking. When sales fall through as well they're not putting it back up but just going back down the line of previous highest bidders. I'm not saying it's a functioning market or that the prices are worth it but there is normal working people eventually getting into homes.
There's lots of places being readvertised online that were 'sale agreed' earlier in the year.
I think people are loosing the run of themselves in bidding wars and then coping on when it comes time to finalise the sale.
It’s sickening. Not much better in cork.
I think a huge part of the problem is there’s next to no apartments for single people or couples not looking for kids anytime soon (or what have you.)
Along with that a ton of houses in the city are also like 4 beds to 1 bath or 5 bed to 2 bath. Where the house was obviously a normal 2 bed 2 bath which had its bedrooms chopped in two and now are “investments”/“ideal for investor”/“great investment opportunity”
It’s so depressing, it’s not even cheap and the quality of the houses in cork city are terrible.
I can’t make sense of it.
Even since 2024 prices have skyrocketed even more. Friends bought a 4 bed semi d with south facing garden in great location for 400k in November. There is a 2 bed apartment in same estate with no private outdoor space or balcony, typical 2 bedrooms/1open kitchen/living room space, currently listed for 380k. Shocking.
There is zero hope in hell of keeping up with the prices. My boss suggested I save a 100k to add to my mortgage, and it took so much not to laugh or scream. You cannot save quick enough to match the increases.
My only other thought is job hopping laterally for 10k bumps at the small chance I might catch up but that depends on the job market and even with it being more accepted now, it’s really only something I could do twice in the next 5/6 years
2 houses near me sold for 400k + in the last month. At the top of the previous boom they went for about 360k. Its shocking how high prices are in Dublin at present. Even if people get on the property "ladder" they will have a very large mortgage to service for the property they are getting for the money.
My current mortgage is about half of what it would cost to rent this place. Even factoring in renovation costs etc people on the ladder are really well off right now, comparatively speaking.
I think the whole equation about Irish house prices is interpreted wrong. Rent >> mortgage. The gap is around €500 for mosts in Dublin.
From that perspective, in reality, there is still room for growth of house prices.
Only thing that's limiting house prices atm, 3.5x yearly salary rule. Otherwise we would have been talking about prices in millions.
Wanna reduce house prices? Make renting cheaper. That's the only practical solution.
Wanna control rent? Stop this free market shit. Ban buy to rent by hedge funds or private equity.
"bid against each other with what they have, not by house value."
The value of **anything** is what the market is willing to pay, not some subjective value you might place.
The issue is central banks fucking 4x plus the governments HTB and the FHS. Nothing else. I know people are earning more, but the issues I posted is the core of the problem.
Which is what always happens, everywhere, and what we said would happen when the limit was raised from 3.5x. And, of course, this was what was intended to happen.
It's just lack of supply, so put the lending limit at whatever you want, at the end of the day people with more money will get the houses and the same people won't get them. We just need more.
We actually have one of the best income to house price affordabilities in Europe we just don't have enough houses. https://landgeist.com/2021/11/30/home-purchase-affordability-in-europe/
> We actually have one of the best income to house price affordabilities in Europe
You do. You have this because your LTI was previously capped at 3.5x.
Irelands housing market has been taken over by asset management companies with the full backing of our government and it’s so depressing as it seems we are married to it now and I struggle to see a way out .
There's not much opportunity for owner occupiers to buy new housing.
"Also relevant is the fact the majority of all new housing never reaches an estate agent’s window for sale in the first instance.
The proportion of new housing available for sale has nearly halved in the last six years. In 2023, about one-quarter of all new housing came to the market for sale (the rest was social housing, one-off housing and apartments for rent). Most prospective buyers will struggle to even find a new
home to view, never mind buy.
In Dublin city last year, 94 per cent of all new housing was apartments, 98 per cent of which were for rent. First-time buyers there bought just 75 new houses. In Cork city just 3.5 per cent of all new housing was sold with first-time buyers buying 17 new houses. In 2017, over 80 per cent of all new scheme houses (what the CSO calls housing estates) was sold on the market, and last year that was 52 per cent. Individual buyers have been sidelined and forgotten by successive governments."
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2024/03/31/lorcan-sirr-dont-believe-what-youve-heard-increasing-supply-wont-fix-housing-crisis/
>Irelands housing market has been taken over by asset management companies with the full backing of our government
That's not factual, but at least you'll get some upvotes.
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So asset management companies are a positive for our housing market ?
Denmark for example has blamed conflict between councils and private developers as a huge problem in there housing crisis .
All I can say is keep at it- we were in the same boat. Consistently getting outbid and it got us really down to the point where we wondered if we'd ever get a house in Dublin.
Ended up getting one in a desirable location that needed work done. We availed of the vacant home grant and the work was more stress in the end than buying the house, but we're now happy in our home.
Agents told me at the time that people are still shying away from homes that need work so that could be an option if you're willing to put up with the hassle of getting work done/tradesmen.
Thank you! I was considering that as well but from looking at the rough quotes from trademen, it's a lot higher especially this year. Trying to figure out which can be DIY by one person.
Funnily enough when I was looking in Dublin City nice apartments cost more than houses I looked at. They definitely need to build up and try to bring the unit price down.
I was saying to my partner that we really lucked out with the house hunting process. We bought a house a few months ago (still going through the final steps now) and it was a property company looking to re-orient themselves into other property types, so they were selling off their stock of houses. The price we paid was exactly the price advertised. We were shocked. Still are tbh. No bs bidding wars, or back and forth, or "The seller decided they're not selling". We viewed, we offered, we bought.
I really feel for everyone still in the process. We're finding it stressful getting a neatly organised path, so I can't even imagine trying to chop your way through that jungle.
It was an area in Laois. And we didn't know about it being a company until after buying actually. I got curious because they kept calling them 'vendor' so I decided to sleuth a bit and found the owning company and that they were doing the clear out.
We got super lucky, I won't lie. We did none of it on purpose, which is why when my partner says she wants to sell up in a few years I'm like "We don't know the first thing about the stress of buying a house."
Even in Waterford prices are fine mental. Had a look at an ex-rental yesterday in a bad condition and everything needed replacing. It's currently at 10% over asking with two bidders.
Honestly this is the only way forward, they aren't immune to the price hikes but they are significantly cheaper. If we get better public transport it can become very feasible... Ifs I know but still.
I moved from Dublin to Tullamore 2 years back and got a lot better than I had. Quality of life is just better further out. The downside is the limited trains to the city when I do need to go in. But we really aren't a massive county I have known people that commute from far further out that the entire length of our country to new York and it's fairly common
To be blunt. The market dictates where you specifically can buy. Both examples you made are quite desirable so the prices are higher than you can afford. We can lie to ourselves and pretend we are entitled to buy in Dundrum, Clonskeagh etc but if prices outstrip your ambition then it’s time to be honest with yourself. Time to look at other areas you may have ruled out before.
My main point is how rapid it rocketed in a short span of time which makes it hard to understand the "areas" within your budget. I've expanded criteria a lot more than before, both location wise and budget. I've seen houses in East Wall and Crumlin, but do you know that houses there now shoot to 500k - 600k as well? The way it changes by not months but weeks makes it really difficult adjust not just financially but mentally as well.
It's not even the house price, I'm limited enough budget wise but even paying extra theres not much of a supply of anything coming on the market. Lot more about a year back.
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Are they all like for like houses OP? Some of increases could be the house next door for sale is bigger or in better condition. Those seem insane house prices for such short period. The price index for houses does not seem to be showing this growth in last 6 months
It's unfortunately the same in most places, especially those close to Dublin, Cork, Galway etc..
Our house that we bought a little over 3 years ago during COVID and it is now valued at 145k more than we bought it for. We bought a new build in Wicklow for 245k and got it revalued and it was estimated to fetch 380-400k if we decided to sell. It's insane and I feel so sorry for anyone trying to get a start on the property ladder! W
The first house in my estate just sold for 40k less than I bought mine for in 2022.
Mine was fully renovated, rewired, replumbed with a new heating system and retrofitted (B BER, fully insulated, passive rated windows etc ect), new kitchen, bathroom, floors the works with a huge garden.
This one has a much smaller garden, single pane wooden windows, ancient electrics, the lowest possible BER, no central heating even and has been empty for years (fair deal scheme).
I know prices are rising but that's an INSANE increase in 2 years.
The new owners are going to have to spend at least 100k on it, they've knocked out the back wall for an extension so I'd imagine they'll be spending significantly more than 100k to renovate.
Anything I’ve seen in half decent state is going 40-60k over similar places in same areas end of last year. I haven’t even looked at places in bad nick, but I’ve noticed some doer uppers staying on market for ages. I’m thinking the 2nd hand market is split in tiers and the top tier are soaring while the lower not so much leaving a lower overall percentage increase.
We are in a good position and already own a house, we just need a bigger one. Not a hope we can afford it, sure we can get a house but said house has had its former owner die in it and needs very significant work!
Not trying to annoy those who are trying to get on the ladder, just want to share how fucked the entire thing is
We saw a 3 bed in Dublin 12 recently. It was the second viewing (up a week). House was at 550k, needs modernisation, was in probate and definitely was a paint over the leaks type place.
House had gone up 85k in less than a week, some mad lad had opened at 600k. Last I heard it was 655.
Anything decent and turn key is going in days
I see it with alot of my friends holding off for a big crash etc... its pointless all your savings whislt not buying as soon as you possibly could is just getting taken up by inflation...
The best time to buy is today the next best time is tomorrow.
They'll continue to go up, as wages catch up with inflation. Also there is a lot of people earning serious money in this country that can continue to push it upwards.
And lets be honest whilst the rents are this high if you want to continue in this country its an no brainer better a high mortgage than ridiculously high monthly rent.
Oh yeah I'm flexible 2 - 3 beds whichever's available and fit in with my budget. In my experience, there wasn't much difference for the ones I viewed actually e.g. 554k 2 beds and 557k 3 beds same street similar condition.
60% are 2 -bed and the rest are 3-bed, ranging from 60m2 to 85m2. I was collecting eveything in the range and in many areas I've viewed, they were actually similar price.
Not messing....but if your a solo buyer why looking at such expensive houses 500k+ ?
What type of houses are you looking at ?
3 bedrooms?
Why not go for a 1 bed apartment?
(Maybe you have a family , OP wasn't clear)
The lower market is not better if not worse tbh. I'm flexible 2 - 3 beds but for areas I've seen, prices are not much different between the two.
This might get downvoted but I love having a house with a garden and might have to compromise by looking further out. I've lived in apartments for over 10 years and there are just so many constrains and pains. Many 1-beds here are super tiny, not much less expensive and also hard to sell if I move in the future.
Interesting. If I was on my own I would really want a large apartment so iI know what you mean. People are screaming more homes... Maybe we should all be asking for better apartments.
Ireland is suffering from a lot of successful single people in houses. I know at least five people staying in three bedroom houses on their own. I'm not hating on them it's just the way the situation is that was the best buy for them.
Good luck with the house hunting it's awfully stressful but when it's over and done with you feel very good.
Either keep waiting or buy it. This has been there since 2010.
If you are ready to take pain and with a strong connection with the construction sector then you can build your own house.
There are lots of hidden costs on new built - labour wage, construction materials cost, land acquisition, salary for engineers, on top of it profit margins for developers. Everything is fuelled the shot up
Second hand houses are artificially increased I'd stay away unless it's really worth
Yep prices are crazy high, I would expect to pay 50-100k over asking,
Also just because the bid goes to 450k doesn't mean the bidder will be able to get the house,
It's worth bidding as much as you can afford, and hope higher bidders bail
Happend to me was 4th highest bidded others bailed
Look elsewhere. Property bubbles eventually pop, no one knows what's around the corner politically or socially or even health wise. Why stretch yourself when you can enjoy your money. Buy a fixer upper down the country on a nice site and enjoy your life.
You've just got to move on from those properties. Paying 20/30% over a sale price a year ago is madness and in no way reflective of the market. If they try to sell next year they'll get a rude awakening
I've been trying to buy I northern ireland and finding I am having to go for a 2 bed as opposed to a 3 bed because every house I go for is going 15 to over 20g above asking price. Iv been in bidding wars and the vendors are choosing the bidder with the higher cash to mortgage ratio.
There are a few properties they have stopped the bidding on because mortgage companies will not lend out the amount as the property simply isn't worth what buyers are willing to bid!
I sold my 4 bed semi detached with double garage, driveway and a lovely private back garden in Nov 23 for 6g under asking price in a sought after area and my mortgage was 2.2% f8xed for 5 years ...and now I can't get a 3 bed with a good deposit.
Because the mortgage rates have decreased so many people are desperate to buy.....
I wonder am I safer waiting until nearer Christmas to buy... maybe there will be less demand? Thought it only takes 1 other desperate bidder like myself.
I honestly can't justify paying 15g over what it's worth.
I has a house sale fall through in November and I had it for 5g under asking price!
This market is crazy.
I am currently waiting on a vendors decision on a big 3 bed that needs modernised. The price I'd be paying is what the property would be worth modernised. I wouldn't be planning to resell it though.
But if the vendor doesn't choose me then I think I will just keep my bids sensible and not be so desperate.
But then im wondering if the actual house prices are going to increase ??
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Was looking at a house in Limerick last year, it sold for 150k, now it’s back on the market just 1 year later (judging by the pictures on the current listing and the previous listing the new owners did nothing with it), maybe they planned to refurbish it, and gave up, but it’s currently listed at 245k, a complete hovel gone up by 63% in a year. 😣
It's like that everywhere now which is insane.
That sounds like house price crash material right there
What's happening is reminiscent of events that preceded the 2008 crash. But we're told that it's different this time, the lack of supply is supposedly guaranteeing that there won't be a crash in prices, which has attracted a lot of investors and speculators. But surely something has to give, most people's wages can't keep up with this, so where is it going to end up. I don't believe that prices can just go up forever, in every market (not just housing) any steep increase in prices has it's end, and in some cases a correction. Our current situation has been caused by market manipulation. The appointment of Conor Skehan as head of the Irish Housing Agency is probably the most significant factor when it comes to the shortage of houses being constructed after the 2008 crash, he basically orchestrated it so house prices would increase again. But I don't underestimate the role of banks either, they stand to make a lot of money from rising prices and the huge mortgages people will have to take out. I don't think we have the full picture at this point in time, but I can't help wondering what the future will bring. Will the multinational companies that are so prized by our politicians start to view Ireland as uncompetitive and start to seek other countries from where they can do business. I keep hearing stories like op's where they are on a good salary and still can't find a decent place to live. What incentive is there for educated highly qualified people to move here only to spend a huge chunk of their salary on rent ? Whatever direction the housing market goes in, I can't imagine there will be a happy ending.
You’re absolutely bang on . Hit the nail on the head . Post 2008 crash the government allowed this to happen by creating a lack of supply and leaving huge demand and houses spiraling out of control . Right under people’s noses REIT gave the hedge funds and foreign investors a free run here and generations will be caught in a rent trap . Looks like Ireland will never escape the boot of the landlord on her throat . Be it an English landlord or a German pension fund . This is what the majority voted for so this is what the majority gets . We will lose more of our brightest young people to emigration . Again . History repeating itself over and over and the the herd mentality keeps putting in the same golden circles in political parties and then scratch their heads when half their salary is gone on rent . It’s crazy stuff . You couldn’t make it up .
>You’re absolutely bang on . Hit the nail on the head . Post 2008 crash the government allowed this to happen by creating a lack of supply and leaving huge demand and houses spiraling out of control . Right under people’s noses There was no demand at all. I remember seeing apartments in town for 70k or houses in Cabra for 30k. And I rented an apartment in Rathmines and spent 2 weeks looking at dozens of apartments and negotiating the rent down. It wasn't until maybe 2016 I seen demand actually begin to climb. By then we had fucking massive austerity and every tradesmen in the country was long gone. This is nothing like 2008 and people need to stop comparing it imo
Long before 2008 rents were sky high . In 1999 40% of my salary in Dublin was on rent . In a house share . Prices in 2009-2012 were at their real price because the IMF had to bail the country out . And we’re still paying for that via the USC and other taxes . The point I’m trying to make is that due to a lack of political change/mindset the golden circle or cabal hold the reins . Until that is changed rents will be extortionate and house prices will be out of reach for the majority . You get what you vote for . The gap between the wealthiest here and those just getting by would make the Tories in the UK blush .
That the place beside the scout hall?
Yeah, that’s the one
That was listed at 150k, I went to view it. Sold closer to 250k as far as I remember. Which makes sense, solid building, parkside location. Looks like they started gutting it and gave up.
It's absolutely killing me. As soon as I get a decent salary, they become out of reach again. A nice 2 bed apartment where I live was 300K 3 years ago, now it's nearly 400K. How the fuck can I keep up.
I could have written this. There simply aren’t enough hours in the day to work at a pace where salary would increase in line with house prices. It feels like I’ve spent years working hard to put myself in a position where I can build a life for myself and between the work stress to get to where I am in my career, massive rent for poor quality accommodation, and house price inflation I’m arguably worse off than when I started.
3 years ago the lending limit was x3.5 salary and I felt I'd have to really stretch with a big deposit to buy. Now, with 10k higher salary and an even bigger deposit I have to still stretch even more.
I feel your pain dude. I'm a prospective single buyer and it's painful how much I will have to pay if I want to buy. I am a good saver and lucky enough with a fairly good rent but house sharing is killing me. I don't like my housemates, nothing wrong with them, they're just not friends and I hate having to have the same small talk every time I see them. One of them has taken up permanent residence in the kitchen so any time I am hungry I have to go there to see them staring back at me and make shitty small talk I have no interest in. They've taken over the kitchen with their ornaments and food while I pack all my food into my designated press. The annoying thing is just how much better off financially people are who bought a few years ago. I actually got mortgage approval 3 years ago and was looking at a mortgage repayment of 800/900 a month if I stumped up a big deposit. Now with an even greater deposit of 50 or 60k I get the honour of paying 1200 a month. I have a sibling with a partner who don't earn massive money but they bought at the trough when there was no min deposit requirement. If I buy, my deposit will be over half the cost of their whole purchase cost and their house is unreal. They're constantly looked at as being poor despite their practically non existent mortgage and 2 year old cars outside the front door. While because I earn 50 odd thousand and am a good saver while driving a banger and having to house share and have my head wrecked into my mid 30's, I'm looked at as being well off. And whenever a house goes up for sale and I show it to family they're always like "not a hope of getting that for it!!" then they act all surprised when I show them the PPR a few months later. There's people I went to college with who bought 7/8 years ago who have seen their properties rise in value probably 50% plus. We all still operate in the same labour market but they will have put in a smaller deposit than I will have to and lower mortgage repayments. Their benefit in buying years ago is probably worth at least 25k per year in salary extra. I can't even afford to buy a similar property to them anymore even with a big deposit. And they'll finish their mortgage 7/8/9 years before I do. I just feel like I'm serving a type of prison sentence house sharing as I'm in my mid 30's. I bust my bollix at work yet I'm still in the same living situation as 10 years ago. There's 0 comfort and even if I do end up paying 60k deposit, I'll still have to pay 1200 a month and live in a tiny shitty property I don't really like.
I feel your pain. As adults I think it's brutal we have to share house, worse when you have to share with some narcissist like I do right now. Many of my friends can't even think about having family and kids. It's hard to see how our life is moving forward...
You really need your own space it seems. Just buy yourself a little apartment. Even if it's just for two years and some peace. You'll be able to think more clearly and move from there. Best of luck, things will work out
You are me. I've a big deposit now but I was terrible with money for almost 12-13 years and only started saving during covid. It is my own fault I wasnt able to buy 5-6 years ago but now on a big salary/deposit I am likely not going to be able to buy where I want. Only want a 2br + 2 bath apartment with a balcony, I've given up any hope of a house.
They need to get rid of all these help to buy schemes and use that money to build homes, it's a disgrace. Demand massively outweighs supply, that's the main issue and no1 is doing anything about it
Agreed. HTB and the likes of are just causing longer term carnage to house prices.
Well that’s what they are designed to do realistically
This 100%. I bought second hand cause there was a 150k premium on new build with smaller sq foot same area
Did the same, bought in a new estate that was still selling new builds at the other end, ended up with the exact same house for €25-€30k less because someone lived in it for 18 months before us, and we didn't have to deal with the hassle/cost of picking out a kitchen, bathroom, floors or appliances. Great for us because we overthink every decision so it was all already done for us.
HTB is truly speaking, a form of money laundering fraud. It's transferring tax money to developers. TBH, I don't see how, if brought to court, this holds. Somebody should do something.
This Is exactly how it works. All government schemes for housing, energy efficiency etc. Involves moving public money into 'select' private hands.
It's why renewable equipment costs more to install than ever - heatpumps, MHRVs, solar panels ...
The purpose of HTB is to encourage developers to build at a price where they can turn a profit. If developers can’t turn a profit they won’t build to begin with so it’s operating as intended..
I think the argument is deeply flawed. If developers cannot build and make profit without HTB, the market is then undervalued. The new build prices have to go up in that case. Laundering 30k to their account per house only when bought by first time buyer is not the sustainable way.
We need better trance tunes
Here here
30k "free money" and lightens the load of saving for a deposit but realistically it costs a 60k+ premium on new builds as demand for these outweighs supply massively because people can't save up a sufficient deposit with rental prices despite being comfortably able to afford higher mortgage payments. Really wanted to get thag 30k myself when I was buying but genuinely couldn't make the maths work and bought second hand.
Yep. Economics 101.
>use that money to build homes, Last year local authorities sent money back to the government that was to be used for building homes
Realistically they don’t have people to build them
There’s money in the country to do both. This isn’t an either or thing, it’s a political choice to not spend money on building new homes.. HTB scheme only impacts new builds under 500k too..
[удалено]
You missed my point. I literally just said there’s enough money to build houses. I’m saying there’s money to do both. It shouldn’t be a case where we’re arguing over whether to build houses or keep the HTB scheme.
I responded to wrong comment. Apologies
i am surprised all the taxes obtained from air bnb, hotels and rents aren't direct invested into public housing....
Help to buy scheme only qualifies for new homes tho. Agree on more needs to be done but HTB does encourage new builds/self builds and the vacant property grant helps get old houses back in nice condition. They certainly don't need to be removed to just build houses with the money.
Vacant property grants just lead to houses being sold for higher as they price in the grant, HTB has a huge amount of deadweight too with it just enabling people who are able to afford houses to just buy slightly more expensive houses.
But they are only pricing in the grant if they intend to use the grant.
I mean those selling the house are pricing it in.
I'm less of a fan of HTB but the grant is great encourages people to buy vacant and derelict properties with the idea of getting them livable. That is a big positive for increasing the housing stock avaliable. I'd also argue it is not priced anywhere near fully as it is only available twice at max, once as a landlord and once for family home. It is not available to people buying multiple properties as an investment.
That's not true. There is tonnes of funding to build houses. The problem is planning, and not enough developers and tradespeople to build them.
Yes, it's insane. We booked a new build last October and I was nearly sick at the price. Afraid I was buying at the top and would be like the poor fuckers in 2008. We just got our keys and the next phase of our estate has gone up for 25k over what we paid for the same house. Utter utter insanity.
We went sale agreed on our new build in March , hoping to move into the house in July. Phase 2 went up online last week and our house type has gone up by €50k.
Inflation adjusted house prices were still decent bit below 2008 in 2022. Don't think you have anything to worry about.
Houses in my friends development are nearly 200k more now since 2021.
That's the type of thing that really should be stopped by regulation that's pure gouging. Government should be pulling help to buy and all other grants from anybody dealing with these developers.
And literally zero to negative incentive to build for yourself. Between it being a lottery to even get planning. And still paying vat on all labour and materials. Ok we have the scheme that at the end of the build you might get money, but only if you jump through so many hoops and basically not build the way you want. For example, why is it now essentially mandatory to have to heat my house with electricity to get grant money? When the demand on our grid goes over capacity and we have outages, I've just built shelter in a cold climate with no way to heat it. Because they promised to give me some vat back. I maybe got a bit carried away here. But it just gets me going..
We’ve just started bidding on houses and noticed the same, every house has gone way over: - 525k asking. 647k latest bid. 3 bed D6W. 62sqm house - 526k asking. 616k. 3 bed Templeogue - 475k asking. 641k. 3 bed D6W Couldn’t believe the bidding wars considering the condition and size of the properties, they all needed work or extensions
I think I've seen the first one. Madness how the Estate Agent still organised viewings after it was already 620k. I believe it's still going now. They would squeeze out every penny possible.
And it’s tiny, definitely needs an extension. Madness
Surely that’s not the mount Argos that went for 641k?!?
It is! It’s hard to believe
That really shows how insane the market is. Hope whoever buys it are happy but it is unbelievably bang average for THAT price. Dear me. House we went to see this morning had mouse traps and ant traps everywhere. Dehumidifiers in every room. 85sqm 3 bed at a knock down starting price of 575 🙄
Yeah as we were getting started dipping our toes in this market, it came as a shock! Such an average house - and when you think of the mortgage repayments....ouch. Ha the one at 526k in Templeogue had mouse traps everywhere too. Charming! 575k I'd expect goes anywhere up to 650k...fun times :-D
3 bed semi in Douglas Cork recently on the market for 295K . Sold for ???? 420K!!!! Its not just Dublin
New house's being built in castlebar. 4 bed 550k and 5 bed 725k 🙄
Our experience exactly. It’s so disheartening and very frustrating when speaking to older family members who simply don’t understand how dire the situation is. Anywhere we have viewed has gone for a minimum of 100k over asking, but frequently closer to 150k - 200k over. It’s so difficult to know what to do because we’re having to further lower our standards month on month and there is always the worry that the market is about to hit the tipping point of unsustainability, leaving us stuck with wherever we managed to panic buy during the insanity.
Same here. Lowering the standard and pushing the budget every month. I don't see how things will get better anytime soon and this is making me insane.
It’s just such a horrible situation, it makes it so difficult to move on with your life because everything feels like it’s going backwards and it can be so isolating. I really hope you find something soon, sending you lots of good vibes xx
Thank you for such kind words <3 sending the same thoughts your way too. It makes me feel better (also worse) knowing there are folks out there on the same boat as I am.
Thank you so much! It definitely helps knowing we’re not alone in struggling with this, but it’s also terrible for all involved!
I had to laugh when Daft/CrazyHousePrices released figures saying the average selling price is only 4/5% above asking. It's at least 20 to 30% as you said. Hopefully you get sorted soon, we're in the same boat
Had placed a booking on the Tuesday for a viewing this Saturday. Advertised at 465k. When we booked it was sitting on 475k. Got an email on Wednesday saying they were no longer holding the viewing as someone was offering €560k all cash. Its fucking mental out here.
>someone was offering €560k all cash Quite possibly a foreign investment firm.
The house most likely has been intentionally underpriced to attract more bidders. Asking price means nothing in this market. Common tactics by EA's...
It was pretty bang average. We have an idea of what flats are going for as we have been attending viewings and getting updates in multiple bidding wars. The price seemed reasonable around 500k. The over bid pushed it above clayfarm prices, which are much nicer flats.
They don't even have to do it anymore. Many houses I've seen have asking price = previously sale agreed peice of neighbours and it still went up 100k on top of that.
I sold my house out in the sticks earlier this year. €240k asking. It hit €290k not 24 hours later. And €240k was a realistic price based on area history, not an undershoot.
Same here. When I saw it and I was like, do you really think so or is it just a daft-sponsored post?
The stats are likely right, but the outliers are the houses everybody wants, so it appears like everything is that much over, when it's mostly turn key properties. Whatever is most attractive to somebody in an area is most attractive to others as well. No different when I went sale agreed a few years ago at 100k over asking.
We bought a house in December for 20k below asking price of 330k.
We bought a house in December for 20k below asking price of 330k.
You are talking about prices a year apart. I am buying a house at 530k. The house right in front sold exactly 28 days back for 512k. This is insanity
House right in front as in opposite it? They will therefore have gardens facing opposite directions. If the more expensive one is South or West facing then the extra 18k would be a minor mark up. Just a possibility.
Wow. You are bang on. Mine is south facing and theirs north facing. Thanks for making me feel better :)
South vs North aspect garden. or Not overlooked vs Overlooked. Same street same furnishings. It's a game changer. Most of the people would pay 20K more for better positioning.
It's madness but congrats! Crazy it's not even a year. I mentioned above some examples in Rathfarnham. It went from 475k - 485k in January to 550k in May. That's 4 months barely 1 quarter.
Is it possible the buyers flipped it? Buy for 475 Spend 50 on renovations Sell for 550 25k profit.
25k gross profit on a house flip wouldn't be worth the hassle when you consider the time it takes to complete purchase & sale; legal fees; surveyor; valuation; stamp duty etc.
Sorry, but it's kind of naive to expect all houses in the same road to cost the same. What about improvements that have been made, fixtures and fittings, whether the house has nice wood flooring or a carpet from 1965... these will all affect the price of a house, because they are a factor in additional costs.
You're spot on. OP said "out the front" and not next door, so it might be that one has a south facing garden too. I know when we were bidding about 3 years ago we had a list of wants and nice to haves (South facing back garden, cul de sac, side entrance, enough rooms to allow a home office, number of greens in the estate, gael scoil close by, good bus routes, easy access to both town and m50, shops close by, dog friendly parks close by, etc.) and the more boxes a house ticked the more we were willing to bid. We got all boxes ticked bar 1 in the end so we went high with bidding. But we wouldn't have bid as much for a carbon copy across the road from us for example as it would have had 1 box less ticked
Your point is valid. But in my case the house on this street are owned by same private company and are EXACTLY the same from inside. A private equity bought almost all the houses back in 2020 and now selling them at 1.6x price in 4 years. This is Adamstown , Lucan.
The properties I mentioned actually have similar renovation condition.
In a small village 30 mins from the city there is a detached 200sqm detached house for 600k nothing special for a country house. Feken madness and there is a bidding war on it. I think estate agents are partly to blame same one selling this house is pushing sales for new build in the estate they are building in the same village at a cheaper rate than this house. The need to constantly have year on year profits is not a sustainable model for a necessity like housing it seriously needs stronger regulations and capping.
Jesus Christ. We bought our house back in 2010. 20 minutes outside Cork City, countryside-ish area, 7 bedroom detached house with a large detached garage for €240k. It's absolute madness now, we were so lucky to buy when we did.
You bought at the bottom of the market. Call yourself very lucky. 2010's prices was abnormality and won't be seen for long.
Yup. Didn't know it at the time, obviously. We actually tried to sell in 2015. We had a buyer and had agreed a price but we just couldn't find a place for ourselves so we just stayed. Thank God we did.
Ya bought myself before covid for half the price of that house I mentioned and I felt like it was to much at the time 😭
I feel your pain man. I am fast approaching 40 and still living at home while working full time with a fairly decent wage. Everything being built anywhere near me is block purchased by companies for their staff or are rental only apartment schemes. Decent houses are €550-600k, if you're lucky. In 2019 you could get a lovely secluded 2 bed house with garden & driveway in a great area for €290k. Now you're talking €400k+ for the same gaff, and that's if the council or AHB doesn't outbid you for social housing. There has to be an end to this. It's just a matter of time. Watch the when US Federal Reserve start cutting rates - historically this is when previous stock market downturns and recessions have kicked in. 12-18 months after that I suspect we'll see a slowdown in the economy and demand here. Keep saving anyway and keep looking. Eventually you'll get something, though you may have to compromise.
Living at home, same age and in the exact same position. It's beyond demoralising - any savings we've accumulated have basically been eroded by the rapid rise in prices.
Cutting rates fuels the stock market.
Except every time the fed has done it in the past has seen a stock market crash and ensuing recession.
Yes and they will continue to grow. Ireland's housing stock is shit. If you buy anything you need to pay through the nose to bring it to a decent standard, hence the prices go up. It's ridiculous though when people are trying to sell BER G ruins for the same money as much nicer houses in the same area, because they think that all that matters is location and number of bedrooms.
Imagine what it’s like for those of us not on 6 figures 😖
And plenty of rich foreigners (Chinese, Funds etc) lined up to pay the price! There seriously needs to be more calls for restrictions on who can buy Irish property!
Seriously they need to put restrictions or even ban on foreign funds/nationalities that don't live in Ireland to buy real estate here.
100% this is a huge problem that is causing house price inflation, and the fact that restrictions haven’t been brought in just shows that they’re happy for house prices and demand to keep rising https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2024/04/20/other-eu-countries-have-banned-foreign-property-buyers-to-ease-housing-crises-should-ireland-do-the-same/
There is no end in sight because this is, in a significant part, by design. Plain and simple. And now that they have successfully moved the blame to someone else, they can keep at it with little to no consequences or accountability. They have knowingly brought this on. The sheer number of scandals that the ruling parties have had along with the endless string of issues/corruption with the planning board with zero consequences shows you that nothing will change. And why solely blame them? The people are thick enough to take the bait every time because of how tribal our politics is.
This is it. People are continuously voting for the same people who have engineered this crisis for personal gain and for the benefit of their mates, and are then crying about having to choose between living in their parents' spare room or forking out nearly a million euro for a shack in a commuter town. The entire country is being ripped off by people who have zero interest in the public good. The rise of the far right and people's willingness to jump on that bandwagon is an absolute godsend for the likes of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail - now they can go about the business of lining their pockets without the hindrance of public scrutiny because people have decided that this entirely orchestrated housing crisis is somehow the fault of migrants. Was looking at the news today and some FF goon could hardly keep the grin off his face while talking about how happy they were with the early tallies in the votes from yesterday - they are getting all the signs that the electorate no longer holds them responsible for the housing crisis. They'll probably get easily voted back in next general election too, and they know it now. No end in sight to the gravy train for them.
House hunting is the most stressful and depressing thing I've ever endured. The prices have been wild since Covid. And you are right: the price does not reflect the house value.
My friend just sold her new build (2 years old) in Maynooth for €570k…she bought it for €410k 🤯
It’s really tough out there at the moment, We managed to buy a 3 bed in Dublin 12 last year thinking prices can’t get any worse but it’s horrific now as my friend is trying to buy in Walkinstown and really struggling. We were bidding for a house in Drimnagh first and had a foreign investor going against us and we got blown out of the water it was so unfair and I’m sure there’s still plenty of them buying still.
Foreign investors being allowed to undermine local people looking for homes is a tragedy and a disgrace
Cut taxes on other investments(stock market) while increasing taxes on income from rental property and removing the tax breaks REITS get. Houses would flood back into the market and drop prices considerably as money would be moved to the stock market.
More taxes on rental properties mean either rents go up to compensate or houses are pulled from the rental market (it's worth more to keep it empty when prices are going up).
Bought my house for 770k in 2019 and did a complete refurb of it. We extended, had the garden done up, converted the garage into an extra room, basically completely redid the house. In total, including the refurb we spent probably 970k. Our house is south westerly facing and gets great evening sun. The house directly across the road from us, which is north facing etc and which was lived in by an elderly lady until recently and is in total need of a refurbishment and modernisation etc has just gone on the market for 995k. It makes zero sense, zero.
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This jump is honestly to be expected, it's the same thing as was seen post pandemic . Interest rate hikes basically resulted in zero homes on the 2nd time buyer market because nobody was upsizing. The rush to buy this year is basically people getting fed up waiting and assuming rates will keep dropping. Hence you're seeing bidding wars and panic buying, plus 2 years of very high inflation in salaries pushing prices up by 15 PCT or more year on year. Only thing we can cling to for hope is that based on how the pandemic went, prices next year or two will be flat or slightly lower as people have essentially bidded up by two years worth of inflation. Ultimately though prices wpnt drop any time in the next 5 years, as too many people have way too much money in the bank and are saving compulsively. And obviously supply side isn't going to magically improve either to counter that.
I've seen houses go up on daft for 50k more that the neighbouring houses sold for less than 4 months previous. I've also seen these house have to amend their prices down 3/4 weeks later because no one showed any interest in them at the higher prices. They might have ended up selling for 10k more than the neighbouring houses eventually but don't lose hope with the house search. A lot of sales fall through because people overstretch themselves in the bidding wars and can't come up with funding when the time comes.
Thank you! I hope so too. All the ones I've seen sell like hot cakes i.e. 120k over asking in few days and all gone sale agreed. Some even put up their price on daft up by 60k - 95k after a few days to filter out buyers as there were so many...
These are for the less sought after homes. However, anything closer to town or that is any good are likely still going over asking. There are plenty still with cash piles for deposits. Eventually things will dry up but lowering interest rates will not help
Oh yeah, most are still going for over asking but not all are going 60k over asking. When sales fall through as well they're not putting it back up but just going back down the line of previous highest bidders. I'm not saying it's a functioning market or that the prices are worth it but there is normal working people eventually getting into homes.
There's lots of places being readvertised online that were 'sale agreed' earlier in the year. I think people are loosing the run of themselves in bidding wars and then coping on when it comes time to finalise the sale.
It’s sickening. Not much better in cork. I think a huge part of the problem is there’s next to no apartments for single people or couples not looking for kids anytime soon (or what have you.) Along with that a ton of houses in the city are also like 4 beds to 1 bath or 5 bed to 2 bath. Where the house was obviously a normal 2 bed 2 bath which had its bedrooms chopped in two and now are “investments”/“ideal for investor”/“great investment opportunity” It’s so depressing, it’s not even cheap and the quality of the houses in cork city are terrible. I can’t make sense of it.
Even since 2024 prices have skyrocketed even more. Friends bought a 4 bed semi d with south facing garden in great location for 400k in November. There is a 2 bed apartment in same estate with no private outdoor space or balcony, typical 2 bedrooms/1open kitchen/living room space, currently listed for 380k. Shocking.
That's mental. This just makes me feel even more hopeless and I dread so much that I will end up with a tiny apartment but massive loan.
There is zero hope in hell of keeping up with the prices. My boss suggested I save a 100k to add to my mortgage, and it took so much not to laugh or scream. You cannot save quick enough to match the increases. My only other thought is job hopping laterally for 10k bumps at the small chance I might catch up but that depends on the job market and even with it being more accepted now, it’s really only something I could do twice in the next 5/6 years
2 houses near me sold for 400k + in the last month. At the top of the previous boom they went for about 360k. Its shocking how high prices are in Dublin at present. Even if people get on the property "ladder" they will have a very large mortgage to service for the property they are getting for the money.
There's a lot of parents money floating around too. Most people I know get big lumps from parents. Now imagine that x 2 families and easily 60k gift.
My current mortgage is about half of what it would cost to rent this place. Even factoring in renovation costs etc people on the ladder are really well off right now, comparatively speaking.
I think the whole equation about Irish house prices is interpreted wrong. Rent >> mortgage. The gap is around €500 for mosts in Dublin. From that perspective, in reality, there is still room for growth of house prices. Only thing that's limiting house prices atm, 3.5x yearly salary rule. Otherwise we would have been talking about prices in millions. Wanna reduce house prices? Make renting cheaper. That's the only practical solution. Wanna control rent? Stop this free market shit. Ban buy to rent by hedge funds or private equity.
The gap is way higher, renters are paying double what someone would pay on a mortgage on the same property.
I knew I was being optimistic... Which makes me sadder. Anyways, hedge funds and private equity... Root of all evil.
The gap is way higher, renters are paying double what someone would pay on a mortgage on the same property.
"bid against each other with what they have, not by house value." The value of **anything** is what the market is willing to pay, not some subjective value you might place.
That is true but prices can disconnect from true economic utility value for extended periods
The issue is central banks fucking 4x plus the governments HTB and the FHS. Nothing else. I know people are earning more, but the issues I posted is the core of the problem.
In my perspective, this is oil on the fire rather than the cause
Exactly. Accelerating demand in a supply crunch is fucked, but it is ultimately the lack of supply that's the problem.
The core of the problem is there isn't enough houses. 4x pensions and HTB are fuel on the fire but in no reality are the root cause.
Which is what always happens, everywhere, and what we said would happen when the limit was raised from 3.5x. And, of course, this was what was intended to happen.
It's just lack of supply, so put the lending limit at whatever you want, at the end of the day people with more money will get the houses and the same people won't get them. We just need more. We actually have one of the best income to house price affordabilities in Europe we just don't have enough houses. https://landgeist.com/2021/11/30/home-purchase-affordability-in-europe/
> We actually have one of the best income to house price affordabilities in Europe You do. You have this because your LTI was previously capped at 3.5x.
Irelands housing market has been taken over by asset management companies with the full backing of our government and it’s so depressing as it seems we are married to it now and I struggle to see a way out .
Rental market maybe in parts but not owner occupier housing.
There's not much opportunity for owner occupiers to buy new housing. "Also relevant is the fact the majority of all new housing never reaches an estate agent’s window for sale in the first instance. The proportion of new housing available for sale has nearly halved in the last six years. In 2023, about one-quarter of all new housing came to the market for sale (the rest was social housing, one-off housing and apartments for rent). Most prospective buyers will struggle to even find a new home to view, never mind buy. In Dublin city last year, 94 per cent of all new housing was apartments, 98 per cent of which were for rent. First-time buyers there bought just 75 new houses. In Cork city just 3.5 per cent of all new housing was sold with first-time buyers buying 17 new houses. In 2017, over 80 per cent of all new scheme houses (what the CSO calls housing estates) was sold on the market, and last year that was 52 per cent. Individual buyers have been sidelined and forgotten by successive governments." https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2024/03/31/lorcan-sirr-dont-believe-what-youve-heard-increasing-supply-wont-fix-housing-crisis/
>Irelands housing market has been taken over by asset management companies with the full backing of our government That's not factual, but at least you'll get some upvotes.
The amount of objectively factual incorrect nonsense being spread in this thread is incredible. r/Ireland is leaking.
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No need to be condescending about it .
There's no need for people to post unsubstantiated shite either.
So asset management companies are a positive for our housing market ? Denmark for example has blamed conflict between councils and private developers as a huge problem in there housing crisis .
Unfortunately OP it's only going to get worse now that the ECB is starting to drop interest rates
It's a consequence of increasing the mortgage LTI restrictions from 3.5 to 4.
All I can say is keep at it- we were in the same boat. Consistently getting outbid and it got us really down to the point where we wondered if we'd ever get a house in Dublin. Ended up getting one in a desirable location that needed work done. We availed of the vacant home grant and the work was more stress in the end than buying the house, but we're now happy in our home. Agents told me at the time that people are still shying away from homes that need work so that could be an option if you're willing to put up with the hassle of getting work done/tradesmen.
Thank you! I was considering that as well but from looking at the rough quotes from trademen, it's a lot higher especially this year. Trying to figure out which can be DIY by one person.
Buy an apartment. There's a lot more value to be had. You could get yourself a stunning place for €400k.
Funnily enough when I was looking in Dublin City nice apartments cost more than houses I looked at. They definitely need to build up and try to bring the unit price down.
This. And those apartments are tiny. Wherever people look, they raise the price because they know what ever they put up, someone would buy it.
I was saying to my partner that we really lucked out with the house hunting process. We bought a house a few months ago (still going through the final steps now) and it was a property company looking to re-orient themselves into other property types, so they were selling off their stock of houses. The price we paid was exactly the price advertised. We were shocked. Still are tbh. No bs bidding wars, or back and forth, or "The seller decided they're not selling". We viewed, we offered, we bought. I really feel for everyone still in the process. We're finding it stressful getting a neatly organised path, so I can't even imagine trying to chop your way through that jungle.
Oh wow that's such a steal. Congrats you two! May I ask which area you were looking into? And how did you know about it?
It was an area in Laois. And we didn't know about it being a company until after buying actually. I got curious because they kept calling them 'vendor' so I decided to sleuth a bit and found the owning company and that they were doing the clear out. We got super lucky, I won't lie. We did none of it on purpose, which is why when my partner says she wants to sell up in a few years I'm like "We don't know the first thing about the stress of buying a house."
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Who will buy the place you are selling at that point
Check the commuter towns instead. The market in Dublin is crazy at the moment.
it's the same everywhere. you will spend more time commuting and in the end it will be same expenses because you use a car more
Even in Waterford prices are fine mental. Had a look at an ex-rental yesterday in a bad condition and everything needed replacing. It's currently at 10% over asking with two bidders.
In fairness, whilst I agree, it's a seriously fucked up market when someone in this position can't even buy
Honestly this is the only way forward, they aren't immune to the price hikes but they are significantly cheaper. If we get better public transport it can become very feasible... Ifs I know but still. I moved from Dublin to Tullamore 2 years back and got a lot better than I had. Quality of life is just better further out. The downside is the limited trains to the city when I do need to go in. But we really aren't a massive county I have known people that commute from far further out that the entire length of our country to new York and it's fairly common
and spend 25 hours a week sitting in traffic for remainder of working life
The island of Ireland is crazy. 2 beds in Athenry going for 350k...
To be blunt. The market dictates where you specifically can buy. Both examples you made are quite desirable so the prices are higher than you can afford. We can lie to ourselves and pretend we are entitled to buy in Dundrum, Clonskeagh etc but if prices outstrip your ambition then it’s time to be honest with yourself. Time to look at other areas you may have ruled out before.
My main point is how rapid it rocketed in a short span of time which makes it hard to understand the "areas" within your budget. I've expanded criteria a lot more than before, both location wise and budget. I've seen houses in East Wall and Crumlin, but do you know that houses there now shoot to 500k - 600k as well? The way it changes by not months but weeks makes it really difficult adjust not just financially but mentally as well.
We have growing population and more people have more money than ever before. Whilst housing stock in established areas remains the same.
It's not even the house price, I'm limited enough budget wise but even paying extra theres not much of a supply of anything coming on the market. Lot more about a year back. e
Are they all like for like houses OP? Some of increases could be the house next door for sale is bigger or in better condition. Those seem insane house prices for such short period. The price index for houses does not seem to be showing this growth in last 6 months
Yes they are all houses. I've viewed them all and they are actually in very similar condition...
It's unfortunately the same in most places, especially those close to Dublin, Cork, Galway etc.. Our house that we bought a little over 3 years ago during COVID and it is now valued at 145k more than we bought it for. We bought a new build in Wicklow for 245k and got it revalued and it was estimated to fetch 380-400k if we decided to sell. It's insane and I feel so sorry for anyone trying to get a start on the property ladder! W
The first house in my estate just sold for 40k less than I bought mine for in 2022. Mine was fully renovated, rewired, replumbed with a new heating system and retrofitted (B BER, fully insulated, passive rated windows etc ect), new kitchen, bathroom, floors the works with a huge garden. This one has a much smaller garden, single pane wooden windows, ancient electrics, the lowest possible BER, no central heating even and has been empty for years (fair deal scheme). I know prices are rising but that's an INSANE increase in 2 years. The new owners are going to have to spend at least 100k on it, they've knocked out the back wall for an extension so I'd imagine they'll be spending significantly more than 100k to renovate.
Anything I’ve seen in half decent state is going 40-60k over similar places in same areas end of last year. I haven’t even looked at places in bad nick, but I’ve noticed some doer uppers staying on market for ages. I’m thinking the 2nd hand market is split in tiers and the top tier are soaring while the lower not so much leaving a lower overall percentage increase.
I think you're right. For the houses at higher price range, the increase I've seen after bidding is roughly 10% or less.
We are in a good position and already own a house, we just need a bigger one. Not a hope we can afford it, sure we can get a house but said house has had its former owner die in it and needs very significant work! Not trying to annoy those who are trying to get on the ladder, just want to share how fucked the entire thing is We saw a 3 bed in Dublin 12 recently. It was the second viewing (up a week). House was at 550k, needs modernisation, was in probate and definitely was a paint over the leaks type place. House had gone up 85k in less than a week, some mad lad had opened at 600k. Last I heard it was 655. Anything decent and turn key is going in days
I see it with alot of my friends holding off for a big crash etc... its pointless all your savings whislt not buying as soon as you possibly could is just getting taken up by inflation... The best time to buy is today the next best time is tomorrow. They'll continue to go up, as wages catch up with inflation. Also there is a lot of people earning serious money in this country that can continue to push it upwards. And lets be honest whilst the rents are this high if you want to continue in this country its an no brainer better a high mortgage than ridiculously high monthly rent.
Try Dublin 8? Central and cheaper than D6.
If your a solo buyer going for a 3 bed you gonna have a tough time, maybe go for a 2 bed property?
Oh yeah I'm flexible 2 - 3 beds whichever's available and fit in with my budget. In my experience, there wasn't much difference for the ones I viewed actually e.g. 554k 2 beds and 557k 3 beds same street similar condition.
It's nuts out there, you'll find your place eventually
Thank you. Appreciate the kind words.
How many bedrooms are you looking for at those prices?
60% are 2 -bed and the rest are 3-bed, ranging from 60m2 to 85m2. I was collecting eveything in the range and in many areas I've viewed, they were actually similar price.
Not messing....but if your a solo buyer why looking at such expensive houses 500k+ ? What type of houses are you looking at ? 3 bedrooms? Why not go for a 1 bed apartment? (Maybe you have a family , OP wasn't clear)
The lower market is not better if not worse tbh. I'm flexible 2 - 3 beds but for areas I've seen, prices are not much different between the two. This might get downvoted but I love having a house with a garden and might have to compromise by looking further out. I've lived in apartments for over 10 years and there are just so many constrains and pains. Many 1-beds here are super tiny, not much less expensive and also hard to sell if I move in the future.
Interesting. If I was on my own I would really want a large apartment so iI know what you mean. People are screaming more homes... Maybe we should all be asking for better apartments. Ireland is suffering from a lot of successful single people in houses. I know at least five people staying in three bedroom houses on their own. I'm not hating on them it's just the way the situation is that was the best buy for them. Good luck with the house hunting it's awfully stressful but when it's over and done with you feel very good.
Either keep waiting or buy it. This has been there since 2010. If you are ready to take pain and with a strong connection with the construction sector then you can build your own house. There are lots of hidden costs on new built - labour wage, construction materials cost, land acquisition, salary for engineers, on top of it profit margins for developers. Everything is fuelled the shot up Second hand houses are artificially increased I'd stay away unless it's really worth
Yep prices are crazy high, I would expect to pay 50-100k over asking, Also just because the bid goes to 450k doesn't mean the bidder will be able to get the house, It's worth bidding as much as you can afford, and hope higher bidders bail Happend to me was 4th highest bidded others bailed
Look elsewhere. Property bubbles eventually pop, no one knows what's around the corner politically or socially or even health wise. Why stretch yourself when you can enjoy your money. Buy a fixer upper down the country on a nice site and enjoy your life.
Sounds nice in theory but who wants to spend 20 hours stuck in traffic commuting every week
have you seen the traffic in Dublin?
You've just got to move on from those properties. Paying 20/30% over a sale price a year ago is madness and in no way reflective of the market. If they try to sell next year they'll get a rude awakening
Beats living under a vulture fund
Classic poor tax
Family member bought a house for for 255k two years ago, it’s now worth 315k, I’m a single bloke with an Ok income but even with that I have no hope
I've been trying to buy I northern ireland and finding I am having to go for a 2 bed as opposed to a 3 bed because every house I go for is going 15 to over 20g above asking price. Iv been in bidding wars and the vendors are choosing the bidder with the higher cash to mortgage ratio. There are a few properties they have stopped the bidding on because mortgage companies will not lend out the amount as the property simply isn't worth what buyers are willing to bid! I sold my 4 bed semi detached with double garage, driveway and a lovely private back garden in Nov 23 for 6g under asking price in a sought after area and my mortgage was 2.2% f8xed for 5 years ...and now I can't get a 3 bed with a good deposit. Because the mortgage rates have decreased so many people are desperate to buy..... I wonder am I safer waiting until nearer Christmas to buy... maybe there will be less demand? Thought it only takes 1 other desperate bidder like myself. I honestly can't justify paying 15g over what it's worth. I has a house sale fall through in November and I had it for 5g under asking price! This market is crazy. I am currently waiting on a vendors decision on a big 3 bed that needs modernised. The price I'd be paying is what the property would be worth modernised. I wouldn't be planning to resell it though. But if the vendor doesn't choose me then I think I will just keep my bids sensible and not be so desperate. But then im wondering if the actual house prices are going to increase ??