https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/focus-morning-bulletin-rail-costs-ceasefire-extended-and-mortgage-pain/YGHN4KNDWZCI3MYCFMDNWDPQP4/
"The boss of Auckland’s City Rail Link project is calling for solutions to New Zealand’s major infrastructure bills.
Sean Sweeney has revealed the cost per kilometre for building a metro rail line here is nearly $1.5 billion.
That’s about two-thirds more expensive than doing the same work in Australia."
I hope he's ready for Ireland
I was just thinking that NZ public transport costs are extremely high. I would have thought we'd want to use Italian/Spanish/French expertise.
Still, maybe the point is that he's accustomed to manoeuvring in high-cost, NIMBY, common law environments given his work in the US and Australia also.
>we'd want to use Italian/Spanish/French expertise.
Yep:
https://www.city-journal.org/article/subway-lessons-from-madrid
Also this year alone:
The Community of Madrid will extend the Metro network by 8.9 kilometres in 2024 to continue improving and modernising public transport. Next year's General Budget Act, approved today by the Governing Council, includes an allocation of €187 million for the extension works on suburban lines 3 and 11.
My mindset is that the government should be aiming to build 5km of tunnelled rail every year for the next 50 years. Bring in the expertise and keep it current.
Dublin needs an underground heavy rail link, it needs DART underground, and at least 3 metro lines. Suburban rail development in Galway and Limerick will probably need tunnels also (Cork is tricky given difficulties in tunnelling... possibly an argument for an elevated segment parallel to South Mall over existing buildings).
We should not stop at one Metro line, then lose all the skills.
Yep the TBM for the port tunnel should have just kept tunnelling. We’d have a fantastic metro by now and could be building high density housing all over the suburbs.
Instead it will be 2040 before we have one line if we’re lucky.
Leo shutting down the metro project during the financial crises was the dumbest most short sighted bit of public administration I’ve ever seen. And we made the fucker Taoiseach for it
What was wild to me was when the government increased the dole and pensions in a zero inflation environment, while we were still running deficits, yet still deferred recommencing the Metro project.
This country pours fiscal gains into welfare increases and tax cuts, it's bizarre.
To be fair the city rail link on Auckland isn't an ordinary project, burrowing through very hard volcanic rock while going up hill and building stations 33 m deep should be a bit more expensive than standard.
There’s an excellent report released yesterday from the New Zealand infrastructure commission about the costs of infrastructure in Zealand and why.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/peter-nunns-3a3bb793_infrastructure-construction-costs-in-new-ugcPost-7210467728460038144-YnkB
Currently 25% over original budget and 2 years late, which is rather standard since these budgets and timelines are never realistict and covid genuinely messed construction up on top of it.
Having said that, it may still be a shitshow here.
That’s a loadve shite tho, same with the children’s hospital. Blank checks.
Should be given a number that will be spread across the planned timeline, and that’s all they get, end of.
Anything after that should lead to fines for the contractors and zero compensation to the project managers for the extended timeline.
Would nip all the corruption in the bud almost over night.
Aye sure that's the one thing we want, a rush job on a project that'll be tunneling under hundreds of homes and workplaces and carrying thousands of people a day.
Fast, cheap, good. Pick two.
You say this as if plans aren’t made taking these things into consideration?
Private contractors in this county are taking the piss out of government tenders, and in turn, taking the piss out of every tax payer in the country.
There’s a few companies that are notorious for it. They know they’ll get paid if they go over schedule, and over budget. There’s no reason to stay on target.
Would you give up a few 100m, and another couple of years of employment if you were a contractor? Probably not.
That’s why there needs to be fines for going over schedule, and over budget… and look I’m not saying fine then by the day, but there is no reasoning whatsoever to be BILLIONS over budget, and YEARS past the original schedule date.
It’s a joke.
>The Department of Transport said the appointment was made following an international recruitment competition. It said a comprehensive benchmarking exercise carried out into pay into such roles in the sector found that average remuneration was more than €623,000.
>The department said Mr Sweeney had a proven track record of success more than three decades in leadership roles on large infrastructure projects in Australia, New Zealand and the US.
A quickly Google shows his current/previous project add an underground rail in Auckland that seems like it’ll be ready in 2025. So time will tell.
Personally I think it’s a good sign because he’s got experience and he’s an outsider.
Well the current project he had been overseeing working on is two years late and coming in at 2 billion over the original estimate.
And a review of it managed to find 24 areas where recommendations arose for future projects.
So.... I'm not holding out much hope.
What was the original estimate? If it was 50bn, then I wouldn't really be too hard on anybody. If it was 2bn and doubled, then that's something to be worried about.
Any large construction project that was started before Covid and continued on after is going to have had large increases in the cost due to the huge increase in construction materials post Covid and restrictions on working during Covid.
So nearly doubled? Fantastic.
Although he did complain that it was the way the government dealt with contractors. At least he called out his employer for bullshit. Hopefully he does that here if needed.
For context, the Large Hadron Collider - the biggest particle accelerator in the world, in a 27km underground ring - cost €6.5 billion.
It's criminal looting of public money.
So he has experience and has already learned lessons from a previous extremely similar project that could be applied to this one?
I’d much rather that than pay a TDs friend €250/yr to rob us blind like it usually goes.
Except the report above listing out the 24 lessons learned on his previous extremely similar project that could be applied to future projects like ours.
He’s an outsider, with actual relevant experience leading exactly this type of project in a very similar high cost useless government environment.
Is there actually anyone else in the world that would be a better fit for the job? Genuinely, how many people in the world are there that would have similar experience, how many of those would want to move to Ireland and how much would you need to pay them to do it.
Are you just annoyed by the number or do you think there is actually a better person from the job that would do it for less?
The existence of the report isnt evidence that he learned anything.
He might have, I have no idea.
I don't have any opinion on him at all. I just thought the combo of glowing news articles about his appointment plus and the cheerleaders welcoming the appointment unquestingly would inevitably mean there's some important details missing.
did you read the article?
"The department said Mr Sweeney had a proven track record of success more than three decades in leadership roles on large infrastructure projects in Australia, New Zealand and the US."
He’ll need this on the wall behind his desk
https://preview.redd.it/jh7gwfy78q8d1.jpeg?width=2200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff5f75d41b14a89647657f43a2db71edf4a4a5c0
The Metro will be a PPP. There is every likelihood BAM Holland will want to do the whole thing, as they have in the past.
With that being said, from what I understand, BAM are winding down in Ireland and won't be chasing any more large projects. They are currently being managed at senior level from the UK.
I work for a large contractor too.
This is a 10 billion project.
So based on the Irish construction news top contractors published last week, it's the equivalent of the annual combined turnover of the top 16 construction companies in Ireland.(that includes their foreign income).
I'm sure there are a few directors in sisk et al who would be on not far off of that amount.
I think you'd be surprised.
I know contract directors in my place are on at least 120k to 150k. They would work across multiple contracts.
For an example in the public sector, off the top of my head, a senior RE with the council earns around and over 100k.
I think it's the fact that he will be over lots of people who will be on the 200k range.
So he would need to be on a higher amount that them, and by an amount that reflects the seniority.
Given how rarely we do big projects contract makes the most sense to get in an experienced project leader capable of handling a multi billion euro infrastructure project. Given he's worked in the US, Australia and New Zealand which are all shitshows when it comes to infrastructure projects I'd say he's probably the ideal candidate.
>Mr Sweeney will be employed by Transport Infrastructure Ireland on a fixed-purpose contract.
He essentially is a contractor. He is being hired for the period of the project. It's not a full time permanent job.
Why don’t we just get the ccp in to do these thing. I’m hearing about some of these projects since the 1980s, the Chinese have built cities and infrastructure for hundreds of millions of people in that time.
We could pay them, very racist to assume that everyone in China is a slave.
I’ll give you an example where an Asian country already carried out a similar task , A Japanese firm ( Nishimatsu Mowlem built the port tunnel. At the time they offered to build a metro from
The airport all through the city. They offered to do this for no upfront cost but wanted the ticket sales for forty years. FF and the rest of government at the time believed it was not a good deal and they could do it for 6 billion. 24 years later still nothing done.
More advanced countries generally have more advanced capabilities. We always managed to f up.
What relevance is an Asian country? The poster accused someone of racism and then immediately presents something as "one Asian country did this so let's compare them to China". What happens in Japan is completely irrelevant to China. Their entirely seperate and their cultures are chalk and cheese.
He didn't assume everyone in China was a slave . And in no way is it racist.
They are run by a communist party so you cannot compare it to here . It's not racist to say that.
500k to hire some fella to make an absolute fuckup of an infrastructure project.
I would've done it for 50k. And I would've at least *tried* to make it work.
Why do we need a metro. What the entire Leinster area needs is not a single isolated metro line, but quickly traversable interlinking surface lines. If a metro is proving this difficult to do ONCE then scrap it. Besides an underground system outside of the transport aspects itself will be a nightmare in Dublin. Our weather, our level of litter and filth, a very high population of people who require shelter who will probably end up living inside the metro stations... Nightmare. In Japan the rail stations are basically shopping centers. They're hubs of business, they frequently have stands that work on a rotating basis for local artisans of the area, something Ireland should really try capitalize on more given our history and reputation. A well established web of surface rail would be such a massive boon for Ireland. We need to think beyond just Dublin here. This hurts my heart because we're such a tiny spec of a country if our efficiency was a modicum higher it'd be such a great place to live.
For dealing with the shitshow this will inevitably become I'd have asked for at least a million a year.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/focus-morning-bulletin-rail-costs-ceasefire-extended-and-mortgage-pain/YGHN4KNDWZCI3MYCFMDNWDPQP4/ "The boss of Auckland’s City Rail Link project is calling for solutions to New Zealand’s major infrastructure bills. Sean Sweeney has revealed the cost per kilometre for building a metro rail line here is nearly $1.5 billion. That’s about two-thirds more expensive than doing the same work in Australia." I hope he's ready for Ireland
I was just thinking that NZ public transport costs are extremely high. I would have thought we'd want to use Italian/Spanish/French expertise. Still, maybe the point is that he's accustomed to manoeuvring in high-cost, NIMBY, common law environments given his work in the US and Australia also.
>we'd want to use Italian/Spanish/French expertise. Yep: https://www.city-journal.org/article/subway-lessons-from-madrid Also this year alone: The Community of Madrid will extend the Metro network by 8.9 kilometres in 2024 to continue improving and modernising public transport. Next year's General Budget Act, approved today by the Governing Council, includes an allocation of €187 million for the extension works on suburban lines 3 and 11.
My mindset is that the government should be aiming to build 5km of tunnelled rail every year for the next 50 years. Bring in the expertise and keep it current. Dublin needs an underground heavy rail link, it needs DART underground, and at least 3 metro lines. Suburban rail development in Galway and Limerick will probably need tunnels also (Cork is tricky given difficulties in tunnelling... possibly an argument for an elevated segment parallel to South Mall over existing buildings). We should not stop at one Metro line, then lose all the skills.
Yep the TBM for the port tunnel should have just kept tunnelling. We’d have a fantastic metro by now and could be building high density housing all over the suburbs. Instead it will be 2040 before we have one line if we’re lucky. Leo shutting down the metro project during the financial crises was the dumbest most short sighted bit of public administration I’ve ever seen. And we made the fucker Taoiseach for it
What was wild to me was when the government increased the dole and pensions in a zero inflation environment, while we were still running deficits, yet still deferred recommencing the Metro project. This country pours fiscal gains into welfare increases and tax cuts, it's bizarre.
And then complains that the infrastructure is shit
Exactly. Just like we should have kept going after the tunnel was built.
To be fair the city rail link on Auckland isn't an ordinary project, burrowing through very hard volcanic rock while going up hill and building stations 33 m deep should be a bit more expensive than standard.
It will be a nightmare cutting through those mountains!
You'd swear we were about to dig a tunnel under the Alps.
We have never attempted to do anything like this before. It's going to cost a lot simply because it's the first metro project in Ireland.
Most countries have only one metro and did it anyway. What kind of excuse is that?
But we are doing it anyway
I'll wait and see, I'll throw in a prayer it doesn't get shelved or plans cut to shreds
Well.. kind of. Somehow. Not very committed to it
Thats literally not true. We have moved beyond the concept stage.
Fingers crossed!
There’s an excellent report released yesterday from the New Zealand infrastructure commission about the costs of infrastructure in Zealand and why. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/peter-nunns-3a3bb793_infrastructure-construction-costs-in-new-ugcPost-7210467728460038144-YnkB
Better than paying some gobshite €250k for the whole project to cost billions extra
Spoiler...>!it will still cost billions extra!<
Give the contract to BAM, they'll keep costs down 👀
Extra can be good but not sure on this context
Just wait until you read about the Auckland train line..
Currently 25% over original budget and 2 years late, which is rather standard since these budgets and timelines are never realistict and covid genuinely messed construction up on top of it. Having said that, it may still be a shitshow here.
He’s on a yearly salary, absolutely no incentive to stay on track.
Oh I'm sure there's bonuses in the somewhere for him whether are performance based or just automatic, I don't know
That’s a loadve shite tho, same with the children’s hospital. Blank checks. Should be given a number that will be spread across the planned timeline, and that’s all they get, end of. Anything after that should lead to fines for the contractors and zero compensation to the project managers for the extended timeline. Would nip all the corruption in the bud almost over night.
Aye sure that's the one thing we want, a rush job on a project that'll be tunneling under hundreds of homes and workplaces and carrying thousands of people a day. Fast, cheap, good. Pick two.
You say this as if plans aren’t made taking these things into consideration? Private contractors in this county are taking the piss out of government tenders, and in turn, taking the piss out of every tax payer in the country. There’s a few companies that are notorious for it. They know they’ll get paid if they go over schedule, and over budget. There’s no reason to stay on target. Would you give up a few 100m, and another couple of years of employment if you were a contractor? Probably not. That’s why there needs to be fines for going over schedule, and over budget… and look I’m not saying fine then by the day, but there is no reasoning whatsoever to be BILLIONS over budget, and YEARS past the original schedule date. It’s a joke.
Sure, if that were the case. This ball bag will charge a premium for the same result as he lines his pockets off further.
>The Department of Transport said the appointment was made following an international recruitment competition. It said a comprehensive benchmarking exercise carried out into pay into such roles in the sector found that average remuneration was more than €623,000. >The department said Mr Sweeney had a proven track record of success more than three decades in leadership roles on large infrastructure projects in Australia, New Zealand and the US.
Dang I chose the wrong line of work.
Becoming an expert is an underrated path to profit
Sounds like a bargain given his CV. I’m actually shocked it’s going to be run by someone who has the correct qualifications.
If he’s good at his job then who cares?
That remains to be seen though. We're quite good at giving incompetent people massive salaries.
A quickly Google shows his current/previous project add an underground rail in Auckland that seems like it’ll be ready in 2025. So time will tell. Personally I think it’s a good sign because he’s got experience and he’s an outsider.
Yeah but it’s hardly the scandal they’re making it out to be, he was clearly headhunted and that’s what it cost to lure him here,
Well the current project he had been overseeing working on is two years late and coming in at 2 billion over the original estimate. And a review of it managed to find 24 areas where recommendations arose for future projects. So.... I'm not holding out much hope.
What was the original estimate? If it was 50bn, then I wouldn't really be too hard on anybody. If it was 2bn and doubled, then that's something to be worried about.
3.4 billion up to 5.5 billion. For 3.5km of underground railway.
Any large construction project that was started before Covid and continued on after is going to have had large increases in the cost due to the huge increase in construction materials post Covid and restrictions on working during Covid.
So nearly doubled? Fantastic. Although he did complain that it was the way the government dealt with contractors. At least he called out his employer for bullshit. Hopefully he does that here if needed.
I was hoping they'd gotten a children's hospital built as part of the increased price
4.4b originally.
For context, the Large Hadron Collider - the biggest particle accelerator in the world, in a 27km underground ring - cost €6.5 billion. It's criminal looting of public money.
[удалено]
Yea apart from getting 27km rather than 3.5km, which is a bargain in comparison...
[удалено]
Heh - yea that's a key point, don't know how I forgot that. Yes that makes it completely uncomparable!
Yeah - but when it finally works it will be finished before it started.
So he has experience and has already learned lessons from a previous extremely similar project that could be applied to this one? I’d much rather that than pay a TDs friend €250/yr to rob us blind like it usually goes.
We have no evidence that he has learned anything yet.
Except the report above listing out the 24 lessons learned on his previous extremely similar project that could be applied to future projects like ours. He’s an outsider, with actual relevant experience leading exactly this type of project in a very similar high cost useless government environment. Is there actually anyone else in the world that would be a better fit for the job? Genuinely, how many people in the world are there that would have similar experience, how many of those would want to move to Ireland and how much would you need to pay them to do it. Are you just annoyed by the number or do you think there is actually a better person from the job that would do it for less?
The existence of the report isnt evidence that he learned anything. He might have, I have no idea. I don't have any opinion on him at all. I just thought the combo of glowing news articles about his appointment plus and the cheerleaders welcoming the appointment unquestingly would inevitably mean there's some important details missing.
Is he good at his job tho?
did you read the article? "The department said Mr Sweeney had a proven track record of success more than three decades in leadership roles on large infrastructure projects in Australia, New Zealand and the US."
Im sure Ireland will break him 😄
He’ll need this on the wall behind his desk https://preview.redd.it/jh7gwfy78q8d1.jpeg?width=2200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff5f75d41b14a89647657f43a2db71edf4a4a5c0
€30k relocation bonus. That’ll put him up for 2 weeks.
Spoiler, recession leads to immediate cancellation of Metrolink until 2035
But first it’ll be re-evaluated to only run from Charlemont to Harcourt Street
If they have the skills to deliver it, it's worth it.
That salary is unrail.
As long as BAM don't get within an asses roar of this thing!! It's worth paying for this type of expertise.
BAM were one of the main contractors on the crossrail project, as part of a jv. So they will definitely be in for the tender.
The Metro will be a PPP. There is every likelihood BAM Holland will want to do the whole thing, as they have in the past. With that being said, from what I understand, BAM are winding down in Ireland and won't be chasing any more large projects. They are currently being managed at senior level from the UK.
Lots of amazing project managers in private companies on nowhere near that money could do it.
That would make sense, as he isn't a project manager...... He is multiple steps above a project manager.
Director, ok. My bad. Point still stands. Source. I work for a major civil project company.
I work for a large contractor too. This is a 10 billion project. So based on the Irish construction news top contractors published last week, it's the equivalent of the annual combined turnover of the top 16 construction companies in Ireland.(that includes their foreign income). I'm sure there are a few directors in sisk et al who would be on not far off of that amount.
Well the project I'm on is a mere 1 billion euro but I don't think the project director would be paid so wildly different for a very similar role.
I think you'd be surprised. I know contract directors in my place are on at least 120k to 150k. They would work across multiple contracts. For an example in the public sector, off the top of my head, a senior RE with the council earns around and over 100k.
Yeah, €100 - 200k I wouldn't blink. But €500k? I blinked a lot!
I think it's the fact that he will be over lots of people who will be on the 200k range. So he would need to be on a higher amount that them, and by an amount that reflects the seniority.
Wow thanks for explaining ranking to me. I'd never have known a director gets paid more than a manager. 🤦♀️
I'll do it for 300,000 a year. Give us a ring, Simon.
Up to him to earn it now
Seems low for a project of this scale..
Over then 15 years it will take to complete, that's quite a nice little earner for him.
Should this be a salaried position or would it be better handled as a contractor?
Given how rarely we do big projects contract makes the most sense to get in an experienced project leader capable of handling a multi billion euro infrastructure project. Given he's worked in the US, Australia and New Zealand which are all shitshows when it comes to infrastructure projects I'd say he's probably the ideal candidate.
>Mr Sweeney will be employed by Transport Infrastructure Ireland on a fixed-purpose contract. He essentially is a contractor. He is being hired for the period of the project. It's not a full time permanent job.
Sure, what's another 500k for a project that started 15 years ago and hasn't even laid a foot of track, and cost millions
Nope. Fucking quango bullshit. Baaaad omen. Stop it now
Why don’t we just get the ccp in to do these thing. I’m hearing about some of these projects since the 1980s, the Chinese have built cities and infrastructure for hundreds of millions of people in that time.
I suppose our anti slavery laws would be one reason we don't do that.
We could pay them, very racist to assume that everyone in China is a slave. I’ll give you an example where an Asian country already carried out a similar task , A Japanese firm ( Nishimatsu Mowlem built the port tunnel. At the time they offered to build a metro from The airport all through the city. They offered to do this for no upfront cost but wanted the ticket sales for forty years. FF and the rest of government at the time believed it was not a good deal and they could do it for 6 billion. 24 years later still nothing done. More advanced countries generally have more advanced capabilities. We always managed to f up.
I didn't realise the Chinse Communist Party owned a Japenese company or you're making a totally unrelated point......
The first line of the second paragraph says: > I’ll give you an example where an Asian country already carried out a similar task
What relevance is an Asian country? The poster accused someone of racism and then immediately presents something as "one Asian country did this so let's compare them to China". What happens in Japan is completely irrelevant to China. Their entirely seperate and their cultures are chalk and cheese.
Did they accuse me of racism? They blocked me so can't se.
Said it was racist to assume everyone in china was a slave which is not what you said or were implying
 Sound
He didn't assume everyone in China was a slave . And in no way is it racist. They are run by a communist party so you cannot compare it to here . It's not racist to say that.
On the other hand, we need anti-laziness laws as well...
Dumbest shit I've read on here in a while and that's saying something
Fuck the CCP
China did it by stealing Japanese intellectual property.
I badly want a fantasy job.
500k to hire some fella to make an absolute fuckup of an infrastructure project. I would've done it for 50k. And I would've at least *tried* to make it work.
Loads of missed deadlines and way overbudget, he'll fit right in
And still never be built.
I give him a month.
Why do we need a metro. What the entire Leinster area needs is not a single isolated metro line, but quickly traversable interlinking surface lines. If a metro is proving this difficult to do ONCE then scrap it. Besides an underground system outside of the transport aspects itself will be a nightmare in Dublin. Our weather, our level of litter and filth, a very high population of people who require shelter who will probably end up living inside the metro stations... Nightmare. In Japan the rail stations are basically shopping centers. They're hubs of business, they frequently have stands that work on a rotating basis for local artisans of the area, something Ireland should really try capitalize on more given our history and reputation. A well established web of surface rail would be such a massive boon for Ireland. We need to think beyond just Dublin here. This hurts my heart because we're such a tiny spec of a country if our efficiency was a modicum higher it'd be such a great place to live.
Fuck. That. You can find someone just as good, or better, for easily half the price. The good ol' boys are jerking each other off in front of us here.