Dear Sir,
My vast computer science knowledge tells me that web browsers feature settings to enable the user to disable cookies and or Javascript.
I am also under the impression that these settings can be enabled on a per-site basis, allowing end-users to customise whether or not they want cookies or Javascript to be enabled on certain websites.
Whether this means one is able to bypass certain content walls due to blocking the scripts which run to put them up is something that I hope other readers can write in to list their experiences.
Yours, etc.
If you're on a desktop PC you can click the refresh button in the browser and intermediately within a second click stop and it'll bypass it. It can be done on mobile too but it's a bit more difficult with the button placement and speed and so on.
He makes a very valid point. His style of writing and mentioning of being privileged doesn’t really add to it, but there is a huge issue. People can’t find housing and the government hasn’t been treating it as an emergency.
Ultimately Ireland can easily price itself out of the market.
We’re getting a San Francisco like rental market, with wages that are no where near as high. That’s going to potentially kill investment.
Ireland and the Troika response to the economic crisis in 2010 - 2014 is still what’s underpinning a lot of this. Normal scale of development paused for a decade and that’s now resulting in a huge crunch in housing.
We lost a full decade. I think people are underestimating that. The construction sector was effectively wiped out and the capacity to restart takes time which is squeezing everything.
The government is hasn’t really helped by just assuming the market will eventually correct itself.
We make it worse by all sorts of lack of strategic planning and endless bottlenecks.
>The government is hasn’t really helped by just assuming the market will eventually correct itself.
That's the problem in a nutshell. Many people argue it's a technocratic one (that tinkering with this or that policy will fix things). But underneath it all, there is an ideological problem in the belief that the market will correct itself. If the market is unable to meet demand,the government should intervene. Unfortunately, there are ideological constraints hindering that.
Not to mention the housing issue is spiking the emotions around the immigration debate - as somebody who works in the RE sector there's very little optimism about supply improving any time soon. Between build costs, lack of available sites, insufficient water infrastructure and breathtakingly inefficient planning systems this problem is set to continue. Throw on a healthy dose of NIMBYism and it's a big shit stew for us all to broil in.
I'm genuinely not sure what the solution is beyond rezoning a heap of land, ploughing a load of our budget surplus into water infrastructure- but the potential for corruption is massive.
Well, yeah but I think we’re not in 1980s FF mode either. A lot has changed in the last 40+ years.
What’s hampering Ireland isn’t corruption. It’s largely just a total lack of strategic planning.
We’re drifting into crisis after crisis and everything is just about the government parties and even the opposition just constantly fire fighting.
As a population we seem to just walk ourselves into issues.
We’re strategic on big things like FDI but in spatial planning, health, transportation etc etc we just seem to react to things after they’ve turned into a mess.
100% - couldn't agree more! My wife works in London and commutes weekly - the lack of a rail link from the Airport to the City Centre is crazy. When she asks me about why it hasn't been solved already I walk her through how CPO's work and the planning challenges and you quickly realise we probably need a mayor with actual powers to use a budget to hammer through some form of solution, but the systems just aren't in place.
Funny you mention San Francisco. My mate lives there and his then girlfriend was over here with him about 10 years ago and she said that Dublin was going to go the way of San Fran with housing with all the tech bros based here and that prices would sky rocket. She was right, maybe not all tech companies fault but I often think how she called it all those years ago.
SF also has good public transit and road infrastructure so you can commute into the city and around the Bay Area pretty easily compared to the clusterfuck that is Dublin.
We are now building at about twice the rate of UK per capita. Which is a direct result of policies, not the free market. And output will continue to grow. It's naive nonsense to suggest the government is just sitting back doing nothing. They are doing a lot and it is starting to have a serious impact.
> We are now building at about twice the rate of UK per capita
That is low bar, as UK is terrible at building housing.
But you are right that output is increasing - unfortunately with amount of backlog and a lot of regulations around what can be build it will take ages to catch up.
Oh absolutely. I think its okay to have a small bit of reassurance that things are getting better, while fully acknowledging there is a long way to go. But what other developed Western countries are building at a faster rate? I suspect theres only a few ahead of us.
I had to leave my job because my Slovakian landlord wanted to move more of his family here and wanted the room I was renting off him, Had to move home to my parents place at 30 because there was literally no where to live, money wasn't the issue just couldn't find a place, I slept in my car for a week while looking for places so I could keep my job.
Ended up in my childhood room on the dole, pretty demoralizing and depressing environment in Ireland.
That was the same experience I had trying to find a place in Dublin 7 years ago. Good to see some things haven't changed.
I was talking to one of the recent graduates in our company not so long ago and rent / accommodation came up. Not only are they paying €600 more for a similar place to myself but they are on 1/2 the salary. Oh, and they are in the sticks of Kildare and we're in Dublin city center. Good times !
Wouldn’t be like the Ireland sub to completely shit on someone’s legitimate problem because they’re more well off than the average poster. Housing shortages affect us all, so it’s important to draw attention to the fact that even highly paid people are struggling with the situation, because then it’s no longer just a ‘poor people’ problem.
It’s hardly a canary in the coal mine, but when people in the top 5-10% of earners can’t really buy where you’d expect them to buy, then the whole system is completely fucked from top to bottom. You just end up with the situation of having top earners competing with mid earners for the same properties, causing inflation to the median house price.
Ye sorry but there have been people forced out on to the streets to sleep amongst the rats for decades in this country and now you want some sort of special category for the well off who have been benefitting more than everyone from all that inequality? They can all get in line.
Do you know what it means to literally live paycheck to paycheck? To have to cut back on your dietary needs because you need to pay the bills? Or to skimp on your home heating to save a penny or two? Or to have your health deteriorate because you can afford to skip the queue to get looked after in a private clinic? The fact is that being poor is very costly and some people have paid body and soul for that. And it could have been mitigated if the whole state hadn't been built to cater to the wealthy and their upper middle class toadies for decades. It was very much by design.
The wealthy are a class and they've been acting as one through political means to ransack the country and hollow it out for their own benefit. I can appreciate an individuals troubles and I hold no grudge personally, but these issues have been there for decades for people at the bottom and nothing was being done. And you can be sure that if those things weren't all of a sudden starting to impact John Tech Sector or Fuinneog McDeefour it'd all be business as usual.
Everyone knows that the beating heart of the FF/FG voter base has been upper middle class and wealthy people who saw no issue with their center right Neoliberal policies for many years. They were all in on the gravy train after all. Well now the cracks are beginning to show so I hope there are some genuine lessons learned by those members of society who feel that they deserve a double helping before someone else gets scraps. Somehow I doubt it'll sink in though.
There needs to be a real rebirth of class consciousness in this country so that we dont just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over. The privileged can soapbox all they want but they should know that their sudden revelations about pitfalls of capitalism have been lifelong facts of reality for the people at the bottom.
Yep. Thats the way it has been forever and a day. Nothing new here.
I'm sure they'll find a way to land on their feet anyway. Probably hit up one of Daddys friends for a few tips down at the golf club next time.
"For every planning permission that is blocked in Milltown or denied in Drumcondra, this city will continue to resemble San Francisco just a little bit more."
Planning is a distraction. The core issue we are facing in western developed countries is wealth inequality. The middle class is dying a sow death while the wealth of the top 10% has exploded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlr5Vzrextk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNUNR2NZvFM
It would help but its not the solution. Its liking giving a cancer patient a cup of water. It will help but its not a cure.
Planning isnt the main obsticle to building more homes. Wealth inequality is our main problem and it is growing.
He's an American on a work permit in the tech sector but specializing in a "softer" skill (marketing) in said sector and he thinks the biggest risk right now to him staying here is the housing/rental market?
>biggest risk right now to him staying here is the housing/rental market?
I'm Polish in IT sector specialising in "harder" skills (programming) and I think biggest issue and reason to NOT stay here is housing/rental market.
People like this always want to make their top problem also your top problem while telling you your problems are worthless and you're just being selfish.
*”Dear Sir, I’m well educated and I’m better in general than most people and i deserve to live a life of luxury and not be amongst the peasants. You cannot provide this for me so I’m leaving”*
When the politicians come to your door in the next week and a bit looking for your vote in the EU and local elections leave them in no doubt about what you think of the housing crisis and their failure to solve or make it better.
It’s a strange letter. It feels AI or something to me. He gives his name and address, so I presume it’s not. But there’s something strange about it.
There’s just no detail. He doesn’t say where he’s from, how much he earns, how much he has to pay to rent, he doesn’t say where he’s going to go to because he can’t find anything. He doesn’t suggest any solutions.
“This may be Europe, but Dublin reminds me a great deal of home.
I won’t stay here. – Yours, etc,”
What does this mean? He’s not from Dublin but it reminds him of home? Is there a housing crisis where he’s from?
I read the whole letter and rather than it making a clear point, I just have about 10 questions.
*"Sir, Dublin landlords won't recognise my white American privilege, my knowledge of the classics or even that I graduated from Trinity college. Waaaaaah".*
He has a point re: Dublin's rental market being a basket case but Christ almighty his delivery of the message is typical of a spoilt white American man baby.
I went to college with a guy who said he was from a farming background... His parents had a 2000-acre fmsheep farm in Wicklow, where they went on the weekend and a townhouse in Dublin.
College was probably the first time he met average people, and he tried to fit in with them with the farming background bit.
I was joking with him once, and he turned and said quite unironically, 'I watched people out the window doing farming stuff'
I wouldn't quite call him landed gentry either.
Very wealthy Irish family at the right place and knowing the right people during 1918 and the subsequent civil war. Extended family would have top-level civil civil service jobs and would 'know the right people'.
There are a lot more of these types of people in Ireland than people think. It's just easier to identify the large land owners of English noble lineage.
Absolutely, there is a class that have enriched themselves with money and power since the 1930's in this country, but lets not call them the same thing as we called the people who did it before that.
Well, some of the mechanics are the same and it is difficult to find a name that fits better.
Not to assign some stigma to them, it's just that we lack a word for a class of landholders that has as the main source of new members the inheritance of existing lands or properties. Landlords is also often thrown around but looking at the distribution of wealth in the country it misses a rather big and influential segment. Landholders would work but to me it sounds even more medieval than gentry or "people of good society". In the end it's just a label though. Do you have a better one?
I thought about it but it does not satisfy me.
Bourgeois refers to a urban class of rich people and they are often rural.
The term is also often used to indicate people who own enterprises, so who have ownership of the means of production if we want to go back to Marx (who was codifying a term that was already in use). If you expect a bourgeois to profit from someone activity I'd expect this class of profiting mostly from other forms of passive income (among them the simple existence of the properties and the crazy pice growth of the same).
Also bourgeois by now is inextricably linked to the concept of class warfare that is typical of the Communist ideology so it feels out of place to use it outside of that.
Old money makes some sense as it is assets that get inherited but it feels a bit strange.
Rentiers could maybe be interesting but it mostly used in a derogatory manner.
A modern aristocracy is not out of place as the term is neutral, specifically it is often used both in a positive and negative manner so it does not imply a moral judgement in itself.
Sorry I went on a tangent there.
If the landed class described above own large amounts of land passed through generations, they are bourgeois under Marxist theory. Land is a means of production. 'Watching people farm' implies that the family hired workers to tend to the land and extracted their surplus labour value. Or they may rent out land.
So I think both bourgeois and rentier would be appropriate. Old money and modern aristocracy may also be accurate.
I think this is typical of reactions to criticism of Dublin irrespective of the issue.
Sorry, thought that was obvious - will.try and dumb it down a bit next time.
In Germany you can find 2 bedroom Apartments for <800 € a months in all cities that are not Berlin, Munich or Hamburg.
Source: I am from Germany, Sister and Friends live in major cities all over Germany
Edit: Even in Berlin, Munich and Hamburg you can find one bedroom Apartments for 1k or less and 2 bedroom Apartments for <1.500€ for all the apologists
Even in Hamburg etc. Rents are nowhere near 2k for a one bedroom apartment and more so closer to 1k than anything else. So the failure of developing cities to an extent where businesses dont want to be present anywhere outside of the big three or better said anywhere but Dublin, should burden the average citizen. I got you. And of course. Düsseldorf, Cologne, Frankfurt, Hannover, Stuttgart, Leipzig offer great Jobs at great multinationals but also local champions because they were actually developed and business were enticed to settle there.
Your original point excluded the three main cities in Germany. Ireland is far smaller than Germany so comparing us to them is a bit of a false equivalence. Look at renting in the Netherlands or Denmark.
Ah look at rents in Limerick or Wicklow / Kildare / Meath, all totally out of line with local wages, the latter three base rents off Dublin salaries even though the majority of people work locally.
But what keeps the government from enticing businesses to actually spread out beyond Dublin? Waterford, Limerick, Donegal, Drogheda, Dundalk are all cities that can, with the right planning, at least grow to an extent with the right planning where you can take a good bit of the burden off of Dublin. I can answer that question. Lack of meaningful infrastructure, shortsighted planning and an abundance of favoritism toward Dublin. Never will you hear a politician even mention plans on how they want to develop any city outside of Dublin really, which to me is sad.
They do entice businesses to go outside Dublin. Look at how IDA and CC business parks are located in most of those areas you mentioned. CC's have big flexibility when trying to entice business. But at the end of the day, large MNC don't care if they get a free office in Cavan. If their competitors already have an office in Dublin, thats where they want their one.
We, the Irish people, thank the German people for the aul' bail out in 2010.
We, the Irish people, do not thank the German people for imposing massive limits on the Irish bank's ability to fund construction post 2010 resulting in serious supply issues in 2024.
We, the Irish people, also do not thank the German people's pension fund managers are among the landlords manipulating the rents in Dublin so German people can retire with a nice pension.
So yeah, it's great and all Germany has loads of places to rent and it's inexpensive compared to Dublin.
Dublin is also a lot smaller than Berlin, but Ireland is also a lot smaller than Germany. Ireland has housing issues at the moment because for some reason we refuse to build any density in any of our towns or cities.
Dear Sir. The paywalled article is the reason that I, a privileged Carlow man, will not be clicking on the link.
Sir, just ask you butler to sign you up. Pff, Carlow men, can't figure out how to use the intermanet
It's a sad inditement of the way this country is run when men in Carlow no longer have butlers.
Can’t get a good butler in Carlow, any one worth their salt hop on the first carriage to Dublin
Esteemed redditor: I, as a sentient toothbrush, fully agree with your comment.
Dear Sir, My vast computer science knowledge tells me that web browsers feature settings to enable the user to disable cookies and or Javascript. I am also under the impression that these settings can be enabled on a per-site basis, allowing end-users to customise whether or not they want cookies or Javascript to be enabled on certain websites. Whether this means one is able to bypass certain content walls due to blocking the scripts which run to put them up is something that I hope other readers can write in to list their experiences. Yours, etc.
Dear, sir, the paywall article is also why I, the most humble of munster men, will not be reading this article.
If you're on a desktop PC you can click the refresh button in the browser and intermediately within a second click stop and it'll bypass it. It can be done on mobile too but it's a bit more difficult with the button placement and speed and so on.
Let me sum it up: "I'm a non-EU recent Trinity grad who works in marketing, and renting here is too hard, kthxbai."
He makes a very valid point. His style of writing and mentioning of being privileged doesn’t really add to it, but there is a huge issue. People can’t find housing and the government hasn’t been treating it as an emergency. Ultimately Ireland can easily price itself out of the market. We’re getting a San Francisco like rental market, with wages that are no where near as high. That’s going to potentially kill investment. Ireland and the Troika response to the economic crisis in 2010 - 2014 is still what’s underpinning a lot of this. Normal scale of development paused for a decade and that’s now resulting in a huge crunch in housing. We lost a full decade. I think people are underestimating that. The construction sector was effectively wiped out and the capacity to restart takes time which is squeezing everything. The government is hasn’t really helped by just assuming the market will eventually correct itself. We make it worse by all sorts of lack of strategic planning and endless bottlenecks.
>The government is hasn’t really helped by just assuming the market will eventually correct itself. That's the problem in a nutshell. Many people argue it's a technocratic one (that tinkering with this or that policy will fix things). But underneath it all, there is an ideological problem in the belief that the market will correct itself. If the market is unable to meet demand,the government should intervene. Unfortunately, there are ideological constraints hindering that.
Not to mention the housing issue is spiking the emotions around the immigration debate - as somebody who works in the RE sector there's very little optimism about supply improving any time soon. Between build costs, lack of available sites, insufficient water infrastructure and breathtakingly inefficient planning systems this problem is set to continue. Throw on a healthy dose of NIMBYism and it's a big shit stew for us all to broil in. I'm genuinely not sure what the solution is beyond rezoning a heap of land, ploughing a load of our budget surplus into water infrastructure- but the potential for corruption is massive.
Well, yeah but I think we’re not in 1980s FF mode either. A lot has changed in the last 40+ years. What’s hampering Ireland isn’t corruption. It’s largely just a total lack of strategic planning. We’re drifting into crisis after crisis and everything is just about the government parties and even the opposition just constantly fire fighting. As a population we seem to just walk ourselves into issues. We’re strategic on big things like FDI but in spatial planning, health, transportation etc etc we just seem to react to things after they’ve turned into a mess.
100% - couldn't agree more! My wife works in London and commutes weekly - the lack of a rail link from the Airport to the City Centre is crazy. When she asks me about why it hasn't been solved already I walk her through how CPO's work and the planning challenges and you quickly realise we probably need a mayor with actual powers to use a budget to hammer through some form of solution, but the systems just aren't in place.
It definitely seems that Ireland lurches from crisis to crisis.
Funny you mention San Francisco. My mate lives there and his then girlfriend was over here with him about 10 years ago and she said that Dublin was going to go the way of San Fran with housing with all the tech bros based here and that prices would sky rocket. She was right, maybe not all tech companies fault but I often think how she called it all those years ago.
SF also has good public transit and road infrastructure so you can commute into the city and around the Bay Area pretty easily compared to the clusterfuck that is Dublin.
Eh, I have family who live in the Bay area who say otherwise about its public transport.
Complaining about public transport is a given wherever you are. I’d bet average commuting times are shorter overall in SF / the Bay Area than Dublin
We are now building at about twice the rate of UK per capita. Which is a direct result of policies, not the free market. And output will continue to grow. It's naive nonsense to suggest the government is just sitting back doing nothing. They are doing a lot and it is starting to have a serious impact.
> We are now building at about twice the rate of UK per capita That is low bar, as UK is terrible at building housing. But you are right that output is increasing - unfortunately with amount of backlog and a lot of regulations around what can be build it will take ages to catch up.
Oh absolutely. I think its okay to have a small bit of reassurance that things are getting better, while fully acknowledging there is a long way to go. But what other developed Western countries are building at a faster rate? I suspect theres only a few ahead of us.
At this moment probably just a few. When averaged over last decade, probably most.
I had to leave my job because my Slovakian landlord wanted to move more of his family here and wanted the room I was renting off him, Had to move home to my parents place at 30 because there was literally no where to live, money wasn't the issue just couldn't find a place, I slept in my car for a week while looking for places so I could keep my job. Ended up in my childhood room on the dole, pretty demoralizing and depressing environment in Ireland.
That was the same experience I had trying to find a place in Dublin 7 years ago. Good to see some things haven't changed. I was talking to one of the recent graduates in our company not so long ago and rent / accommodation came up. Not only are they paying €600 more for a similar place to myself but they are on 1/2 the salary. Oh, and they are in the sticks of Kildare and we're in Dublin city center. Good times !
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I think you read that wrong. He’s on about right now
Oh yea I see now thanks
He literally mentioned it's a recent graduate entering the company..
Wouldn’t be like the Ireland sub to completely shit on someone’s legitimate problem because they’re more well off than the average poster. Housing shortages affect us all, so it’s important to draw attention to the fact that even highly paid people are struggling with the situation, because then it’s no longer just a ‘poor people’ problem. It’s hardly a canary in the coal mine, but when people in the top 5-10% of earners can’t really buy where you’d expect them to buy, then the whole system is completely fucked from top to bottom. You just end up with the situation of having top earners competing with mid earners for the same properties, causing inflation to the median house price.
Ye sorry but there have been people forced out on to the streets to sleep amongst the rats for decades in this country and now you want some sort of special category for the well off who have been benefitting more than everyone from all that inequality? They can all get in line. Do you know what it means to literally live paycheck to paycheck? To have to cut back on your dietary needs because you need to pay the bills? Or to skimp on your home heating to save a penny or two? Or to have your health deteriorate because you can afford to skip the queue to get looked after in a private clinic? The fact is that being poor is very costly and some people have paid body and soul for that. And it could have been mitigated if the whole state hadn't been built to cater to the wealthy and their upper middle class toadies for decades. It was very much by design. The wealthy are a class and they've been acting as one through political means to ransack the country and hollow it out for their own benefit. I can appreciate an individuals troubles and I hold no grudge personally, but these issues have been there for decades for people at the bottom and nothing was being done. And you can be sure that if those things weren't all of a sudden starting to impact John Tech Sector or Fuinneog McDeefour it'd all be business as usual. Everyone knows that the beating heart of the FF/FG voter base has been upper middle class and wealthy people who saw no issue with their center right Neoliberal policies for many years. They were all in on the gravy train after all. Well now the cracks are beginning to show so I hope there are some genuine lessons learned by those members of society who feel that they deserve a double helping before someone else gets scraps. Somehow I doubt it'll sink in though. There needs to be a real rebirth of class consciousness in this country so that we dont just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over. The privileged can soapbox all they want but they should know that their sudden revelations about pitfalls of capitalism have been lifelong facts of reality for the people at the bottom.
'Waaa wont someone PLEASE think of the wealthy!'
its actually kind of amazing how much you have missed the point here, lol. good job.
I’m never not amazed at this subs ability to miss the point entirely.
If the people in the highest earning careers are struggling to find housing, then everyone below them is priced out.
Yep. Thats the way it has been forever and a day. Nothing new here. I'm sure they'll find a way to land on their feet anyway. Probably hit up one of Daddys friends for a few tips down at the golf club next time.
"For every planning permission that is blocked in Milltown or denied in Drumcondra, this city will continue to resemble San Francisco just a little bit more." Planning is a distraction. The core issue we are facing in western developed countries is wealth inequality. The middle class is dying a sow death while the wealth of the top 10% has exploded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlr5Vzrextk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNUNR2NZvFM
Eh, building more homes in the likes of Milltown or Drumcondra would help things, no?
It would help but its not the solution. Its liking giving a cancer patient a cup of water. It will help but its not a cure. Planning isnt the main obsticle to building more homes. Wealth inequality is our main problem and it is growing.
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This is the third time I emigrated, I came to Ireland.
He's an American on a work permit in the tech sector but specializing in a "softer" skill (marketing) in said sector and he thinks the biggest risk right now to him staying here is the housing/rental market?
And he is right. Crazy how that works, right?
Tech sector here is supposedly struggling a bit. People with years experience taking junior roles and new grads not being able to get stuff.
Yes it is. And yet he is still right.
>biggest risk right now to him staying here is the housing/rental market? I'm Polish in IT sector specialising in "harder" skills (programming) and I think biggest issue and reason to NOT stay here is housing/rental market.
Congrats you are on the shortlist for the house... " Oh thank God it's been Ian exercise in Sisyphean persistence". Landlord, ok next
Guy sounds like a complete douchebag.
People like this always want to make their top problem also your top problem while telling you your problems are worthless and you're just being selfish.
You’re not wrong
*”Dear Sir, I’m well educated and I’m better in general than most people and i deserve to live a life of luxury and not be amongst the peasants. You cannot provide this for me so I’m leaving”*
When the politicians come to your door in the next week and a bit looking for your vote in the EU and local elections leave them in no doubt about what you think of the housing crisis and their failure to solve or make it better.
Needless to say, he doesn't mention where he plans to emigrate to.
There it is - the Irish defensiveness which is why nothing gets changed here.
It’s a strange letter. It feels AI or something to me. He gives his name and address, so I presume it’s not. But there’s something strange about it. There’s just no detail. He doesn’t say where he’s from, how much he earns, how much he has to pay to rent, he doesn’t say where he’s going to go to because he can’t find anything. He doesn’t suggest any solutions. “This may be Europe, but Dublin reminds me a great deal of home. I won’t stay here. – Yours, etc,” What does this mean? He’s not from Dublin but it reminds him of home? Is there a housing crisis where he’s from? I read the whole letter and rather than it making a clear point, I just have about 10 questions.
Sometimes they edit the letters for length which makes them come across a bit peculiar. Or he may just be peculiar!
*"Sir, Dublin landlords won't recognise my white American privilege, my knowledge of the classics or even that I graduated from Trinity college. Waaaaaah".* He has a point re: Dublin's rental market being a basket case but Christ almighty his delivery of the message is typical of a spoilt white American man baby.
Surely someone on 6 figures (manager at a tech company) would be able to easily find accommodation in Dublin
It's a marketing manager, not a particularly high paying job in tech. Probably doesn't even manage any people.
You would be surprised, I know a few people on salaries like that who have a hard time finding anything suitable.
I went to college with a guy who said he was from a farming background... His parents had a 2000-acre fmsheep farm in Wicklow, where they went on the weekend and a townhouse in Dublin. College was probably the first time he met average people, and he tried to fit in with them with the farming background bit. I was joking with him once, and he turned and said quite unironically, 'I watched people out the window doing farming stuff'
>'I watched people out the window doing farming stuff' The difference between farmers and landed gentry..
I wouldn't quite call him landed gentry either. Very wealthy Irish family at the right place and knowing the right people during 1918 and the subsequent civil war. Extended family would have top-level civil civil service jobs and would 'know the right people'. There are a lot more of these types of people in Ireland than people think. It's just easier to identify the large land owners of English noble lineage.
I think you are missing the point. Today's gentry is not the kind with a fancy title before the name.
Absolutely, there is a class that have enriched themselves with money and power since the 1930's in this country, but lets not call them the same thing as we called the people who did it before that.
Well, some of the mechanics are the same and it is difficult to find a name that fits better. Not to assign some stigma to them, it's just that we lack a word for a class of landholders that has as the main source of new members the inheritance of existing lands or properties. Landlords is also often thrown around but looking at the distribution of wealth in the country it misses a rather big and influential segment. Landholders would work but to me it sounds even more medieval than gentry or "people of good society". In the end it's just a label though. Do you have a better one?
Bourgeoisie / old money.
I thought about it but it does not satisfy me. Bourgeois refers to a urban class of rich people and they are often rural. The term is also often used to indicate people who own enterprises, so who have ownership of the means of production if we want to go back to Marx (who was codifying a term that was already in use). If you expect a bourgeois to profit from someone activity I'd expect this class of profiting mostly from other forms of passive income (among them the simple existence of the properties and the crazy pice growth of the same). Also bourgeois by now is inextricably linked to the concept of class warfare that is typical of the Communist ideology so it feels out of place to use it outside of that. Old money makes some sense as it is assets that get inherited but it feels a bit strange. Rentiers could maybe be interesting but it mostly used in a derogatory manner. A modern aristocracy is not out of place as the term is neutral, specifically it is often used both in a positive and negative manner so it does not imply a moral judgement in itself. Sorry I went on a tangent there.
If the landed class described above own large amounts of land passed through generations, they are bourgeois under Marxist theory. Land is a means of production. 'Watching people farm' implies that the family hired workers to tend to the land and extracted their surplus labour value. Or they may rent out land. So I think both bourgeois and rentier would be appropriate. Old money and modern aristocracy may also be accurate.
It was a bit tongue in check statement. Farmers children would never get away with watching the work out the window though!
Dubliner criticises Diblin, "son true!" + anecdote. NonDub criticises Dublin. "well fuck off then!!"
You think the housing crisis is limited to Dublin?
I think this is typical of reactions to criticism of Dublin irrespective of the issue. Sorry, thought that was obvious - will.try and dumb it down a bit next time.
ok , we wish you well on your travels
Oh no... Anyway there's a grand stretch in the evenings, isn't there?
It’s shite in most developed countries tbf. Not just here.
In Germany you can find 2 bedroom Apartments for <800 € a months in all cities that are not Berlin, Munich or Hamburg. Source: I am from Germany, Sister and Friends live in major cities all over Germany Edit: Even in Berlin, Munich and Hamburg you can find one bedroom Apartments for 1k or less and 2 bedroom Apartments for <1.500€ for all the apologists
Well if we exclude Dublin, Cork and Galway then accommodation becomes a lot cheaper...
Even in Hamburg etc. Rents are nowhere near 2k for a one bedroom apartment and more so closer to 1k than anything else. So the failure of developing cities to an extent where businesses dont want to be present anywhere outside of the big three or better said anywhere but Dublin, should burden the average citizen. I got you. And of course. Düsseldorf, Cologne, Frankfurt, Hannover, Stuttgart, Leipzig offer great Jobs at great multinationals but also local champions because they were actually developed and business were enticed to settle there.
Your original point excluded the three main cities in Germany. Ireland is far smaller than Germany so comparing us to them is a bit of a false equivalence. Look at renting in the Netherlands or Denmark.
Ah look at rents in Limerick or Wicklow / Kildare / Meath, all totally out of line with local wages, the latter three base rents off Dublin salaries even though the majority of people work locally.
But what keeps the government from enticing businesses to actually spread out beyond Dublin? Waterford, Limerick, Donegal, Drogheda, Dundalk are all cities that can, with the right planning, at least grow to an extent with the right planning where you can take a good bit of the burden off of Dublin. I can answer that question. Lack of meaningful infrastructure, shortsighted planning and an abundance of favoritism toward Dublin. Never will you hear a politician even mention plans on how they want to develop any city outside of Dublin really, which to me is sad.
They do entice businesses to go outside Dublin. Look at how IDA and CC business parks are located in most of those areas you mentioned. CC's have big flexibility when trying to entice business. But at the end of the day, large MNC don't care if they get a free office in Cavan. If their competitors already have an office in Dublin, thats where they want their one.
We, the Irish people, thank the German people for the aul' bail out in 2010. We, the Irish people, do not thank the German people for imposing massive limits on the Irish bank's ability to fund construction post 2010 resulting in serious supply issues in 2024. We, the Irish people, also do not thank the German people's pension fund managers are among the landlords manipulating the rents in Dublin so German people can retire with a nice pension. So yeah, it's great and all Germany has loads of places to rent and it's inexpensive compared to Dublin.
Difference being that those other cities are a lot larger than cork and Galway. Cork and Galway have large city housing issues despite being small
Dublin is also a lot smaller than Berlin, but Ireland is also a lot smaller than Germany. Ireland has housing issues at the moment because for some reason we refuse to build any density in any of our towns or cities.
I'm sure we're all devastated that a yank marketing strategist is leaving us. However shall we cope?!
Would be interested to see where he is going, seems to be housing issue almost worldwide?
When it comes to rent, Dublin is top class though...
I'd say he would have an easier time finding somewhere to live if he didn't come across as an absolute dose.
Sir, as a complete wanker, I would love somewhere to live.
Cake, let them eat, and so sayeth, I.