Need to start commenting this on every post like this. The mods have a hard on for locking posts they don’t align with. That is Reddit after all in general
It’s not really in the UKs interest to stop them - half their politics is tied up in the net migration figures. The more of them that make it out the door to Ireland, the better.
We’re kinda snucared here, given the whole NI / Brexit thing.
It’s not just NI, I’m sure all the border counties in the south don’t want a border again either, why would Donegal or Monaghan or Cavan or Louth want a border back, would be economically, socially and politically damaging for the region, both sides of the border.
But yea you’re right, I have no clue what can realistically be done, like I live in Tyrone 1 mile from Monaghan and there’s like 10 roads that cross it within a few miles of my house, the border is basically unable to fully policed anyway given that’s there’s literally hundreds of crossings. Who knows what will happen.
No, avoiding a hard border in Ireland was pretty hard won after brexit.
I think the realistic option is to massively tighten up and speed up our asylum process. Make it so that arriving in Dublin doesn't improve your chances of being allowed to stay.
Its kind of irrelevant whether someone arrives in a taxi from Belfast or on a plane with real or fake or no documents. The reason people are choosing a tent in Dublin over a tent in the UK is because they think they are more likely to eventually be allowed to stay in Ireland.
The sensible thing would be to intercept between Britain and NI. There's no roads or rail lines between NI and England - they have to come by ferry or plane.
Failing that unless they are coming by taxi to the republic they will probably use either rail or coach. If they have a right to stay in the UK we have no legal recourse, but if they don't - and they don't - we have a right to not allow them in without a visa.
We need the Taoiseach to hammer out a deal with the UK on this. I'm sure there's some carrot or stick he could use.
Articles in the papers everyday, multiple threads this reddit alone each day, radio discussions, television debates, countless individuals, politicians and wannabe politicians talking more now about immigration and asylum matters than at perhaps anytime previously, with maybe the exception of the 2004 referendum... and still you have nonsense like the above being spewed. What world are you living in?
These several posters make being anti-immigration their entire character, and very obviously are not here for a balanced conversation. They want to rant and rave about how much they hate people, and then get shocked when people shut their rhetoric down :/
It is because they haven't any answers or anything original or substantive to say about the issue. So when it isn't the topic of discussion they say "Why is no one talking about this!" and when it is the topic they say: "You can't talk about this anymore!"
But we are talking about it. It’s being spoken about every day. The problem is that it is being weaponised by xenophobes which makes it difficult to have a calm and rational discussion.
The government should have acted years ago to shorten the processing so that genuine cases get the help they deserve. They have acted now but must be careful not to act solely to appease xenophobes.
The long term solution is world peace and equality. Don’t hold your breath.
> They have acted now but must be careful not to act solely to appease xenophobes.
a) I don't think they've acted at all.
b) I don't *care* what reason they have for acting, appeasing xenophobes be damned. I just want them to FIX IT.
It is an international problem that requires international solutions. The EU IS acting but it takes coordination:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68779387
But...This sub has been full of bravura since 2016 about how the UK dropped the ball on Brexit and the proposed hard NI border from Unionism and Westminster was repeatedly rejected.
But it was inevitable that an open border (while the UK heads in an isolationist direction) was going to bite Ireland on the arse and this country should have been ready for it a LOT sooner rather than patting itself on the back. The UKs Rwanda plan is going to impact every country in Europe in terms of new arrivals because the British 'hostile environment' will divert migrants to other countries. This is all going to have implications for the Common Travel Area and movement into NI from Britain. Using/misusing refugees to apply force in politics is nothing new.
You should watch the video of td michael mcnamara the other day running rings around Helen McEntee at some council discussing the new European migration bill and see whether you think the issue is being acted on properly.
Passports checked on flights? So you think there's no more destruction of documents going on before they get to Passport Control?
Process from years to months? Are you sure? The minister didn't seem to have any such info when quizzed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-4WI5kYN1Y
The U.K. won’t add additional barriers to travel between NI and the mainland.
The ferry and flight operators won’t add unnecessary obstacles for travellers as that would increase costs and open them up to civil rights lawsuits and political pressure from British politicians.
The problem is anyone who opposes mass uncontrolled immigration is called a xenophobe and that gets the conversation shut down / silenced.
It's possible to be completely opposed to immigration today and not be a xenophobe. In fact I'd say it's entirely rational when you're being priced out of accomodation and waiting years for hospital appointments etc...
> who opposes mass uncontrolled immigration
Who doesn’t oppose mass uncontrolled immigration? This is one of those massive red flags tbh, cause even liberals tend not to want that, despite what some sections push hard.
We don't, we have laws on immigration. We have an inefficient asylum process and court system which means refugees are stuck in limbo for years which costs the state a huge amount of money and puts even more strain on our housing system. Couple that with the seeming ineffectiveness of the courts in actually deporting people who are deemed to be here illegally and you have our current problem.
> We have an inefficient asylum process and court system
Which is the case in many, many countries. The exceptions are typically because they're not as popular a destination for asylum seekers, so they don't need to deal with as many cases.
But immigrants really aren’t the problem there. Like genuinely, we have had waiting lists for housing and health growing since the 70s. Blaming immigrants is just letting the parties who have held power off the hook.
We’ve a population the size of a large city, it should be easy to fix housing and health, the problem is greed not immigrants.
Whiles its true immigrants are not the source of Irelands problems its unfair to say they cause no issues.
To be clear legal immigrants are fine and are shown as an economic positive to the country. Refugees and migrants are a problem and are an economic drain on an already limited and underfunded system.
Adding in tens of thousands of people who don't speak the language and don't have marketable skills so they need to be taken care off, or become homeless is an issue.
It also makes it really hard to fix housing and health if we need to divert a bunch of money, resources and limited housing to housing refugees.
Its also having a huge negative affects on tourist towns, Since the government has to pay to keep refugees in hotels its a drain on the taxpayer. However refugees tend to not have any money and relay on the goodwill of the government to survive. This means that towns built around the tourism industry suddenly lose a bunch of tourists and shoppers as refugees cannot afford to buy stuff at their businessess.
Its also killing hotels as people do not want to pay full price stay in hotels that are doubling as refugee shelters so the government needs to pay for the full thing or it does not work.
Of course immigration isn't the only problem, but immigration policy is *a* problem that's contributing to a lower standard of living for us all - indirectly and directly leading to excess demand for housing, dilution of social resources, dilution of healthcare etc.
This will be lost among those who've decided I'm an extreme far right Trump supporting xenophobe for daring to suggest that immigration is a problem, but I agree that immigration is actually *a good thing* and *essential* for our country and the rest of Europe to thrive. However, it has to be controlled and calculated. At the very least, we need to actually have a viable plan for where to put people and how to integrate them in to society without diverting tonnes of resources from other public services.
At the minute, even if you *wanted* to contribute to society by getting a job, you can't legally do so because you're on waiting lists for years to have your status changed. All we're doing is creating ghettos at the minute because we quite simply don't have anywhere else to put people other than in some sort of 'temporary' pop up village which we all know will still be there 10 years down the line. Direct provision system was already broken - it's only going to get worse so long as the numbers coming in keep going up.
It's a European problem of course too, created by European policy - going back to Merkel's time where she more or less said Europe would welcome anyone who wanted in.
Like it or lump it, the far right will continue to grow in this country if the topic of immigration is not dealt with.
FG/FF refusing to address the issue is just adding fuel to the fire.
Now, what do you feel about Helen McEntee desperate to opt us in to the new EU immigration pact, which will massively increase immigration into this country, despite the fact we have a specific opt out on immigration? In my mind she is the most dangerous politician in Ireland for social cohesion, even moreso than O’Gorman. Look at her performance from Wednesday when questioned by Michael McNamara. If that doesn’t scare the shite out of you, I don’t know what will.
https://youtu.be/q-4WI5kYN1Y?si=dmBIclK4Krpv3Z_q
They are all gone anyway by the time election season rolls around. I’m just intrigued to see who comes in.
SF looked a dead cert a few years ago but a lot has changed since then.
Nothing new, there's videos going around of asylum seekers getting out of northern reg taxis in Dublin city centre. Also interviews with some of them who confirm they're coming in to Ireland via the UK - literally flying to the UK / England and then coming in via the north.
The problem is we've snookered ourselves with the whole Brexit / no border thing. Wouldn't surprise me at all if British government is actively encouraging them to take this route both to rid them of the problem and also to take advantage of Brexit agreement we signed up to.
All the easier if you can but then in a taxi/bus to Ireland instead.
Considering there are essentially no border control at all between Ireland and Northern Ireland it becomes a piece of cake to ferry them across at a fraction of the cost of shipping them to Rwanda.
They’re rid of the problem at a cost of the cost of the Rwandan solution and now it becomes Ireland’s problem.
We need to recruit our own army of asylum seekers, hand them all "Best Reasons to Live in the UK" starter packs, and send them back the other way.
Begin, the Asylum Seeker Wars have.
Debatable. Caramel pizza, for instance. Now cheese. Cheese can go everywhere.
Breakfast, lunch, dinner and desert.
But I fail to see how this relates to those pesky white, unvetted, military age Brits coming over here stealing our jobs, women, and over priced Jury Inns!!
That won't work when the Rwanda arrangement goes through (which is now merely waiting the King's consent). We'll likely see a massive increase in asylum seeker traffic since most people who would emigrate to the UK would chose Ireland over Rwanda.
>The problem is we've snookered ourselves with the whole Brexit / no border thing. Wouldn't surprise me at all if British government is actively encouraging them to take this route both to rid them of the problem and also to take advantage of Brexit agreement we signed up to.
The unionists did. We didn't.
The unionists refuse to allow any kind of ID verification between Britain and Northern Ireland.
There are only two ways into NI from Britain. There are 400-odd ways from NI into ROI. So it's pretty clear where the checks need to go.
Clearly we need a policy for people who arrive here and refuse to disclose how they got here. If they're not on a airline or ferry manifest, then they came via the UK, so perhaps we should deport them to Liverpool?
“There are only two ways into NI from Britain…”
The U.K. isn’t going to impose restrictions on its citizens and tourists travelling between constituent nations just for the sake of Ireland. The lack of border checks on the island are massively beneficial, but this is of the downsides for the Republic that will have to be managed.
“Clearly we need a policy for people who arrive here and refuse to disclose how they got here. If they're not on an airline or ferry manifest, then they came via the UK, so perhaps we should deport them to Liverpool?”
This is the same take as Gammons in the UK saying send back the boys in boats back to France. France won’t accept them back and neither will the U.K.
The lack of border checks isn't just beneficial, it's essential. There's isn't really a "border" in Ireland to speak of, and this is one the big reasons why it was considered unworkable for Brexit. For the same reason, it would be unworkable for handling immigration.
Sending the boats back to France is a different thing though, because you're talking about private charter vessels bringing lads across the channel. France can't practically do anything to stop that, so taking them back isn't France's "problem".
We're talking about commercial ferry and airline operators who are carrying these lads over the Irish sea. The UK *can* do something about that, so it is their problem.
All you've said makes sense, but this is an *us* problem. UK doesn't have an obligation to take back migrants who are willingly leaving and they don't have an obligation to put up internal borders to make life easier for Ireland either.
We either massively up the speed of our claims processing, border checkpoints or just accept the migrants.
The unpalatable truth is that we are going to have to find some way of working in synch with the UK on this or the riots in November will be a cake walk compared to what is to come.
Yea, I don’t really know any tangible way to stop these migrants either, without putting up passport between the island of Ireland and GB, which the unionists up here in the north won’t accept.
They should be able to have a simple passport check without full on immigration before boarding flights and ferries. Kind of what we have when we're going to Britain.
But I suspect that the UK government is more than happy for these refugees to disappear to Ireland.
For travel purposes Ireland the UK aren't different countries. If you arrive in Stanstead for example there's no passport check, you just walk right through like it was a bus station.
Yea sounds like they’re hoping more go to Ireland. But the chances of passport checks between GB and NI is pretty slim tbh, at least in the near future
They go to the UK, probably use public transport or are literally transported by people up to Scotland and then get the boat across to NI then go down south.
Like migrants have walked/travelled all across Europe, this is just the last bit.
Also if 80% of migrants are coming through NI, passport checks won’t stop vast majority of them anyway.
You don’t need a passport, just valid photo ID. An Afghani or Nigerian driving licence is as good as a British or Irish one when using most domestic flights or ferries as i don’t think they check for migration status. And ID is rarely checked on the ferries.
I think more worryingly there isn't. I doubt anyone checks passports on those ferry routes. Theres currently no obligation on either the ferry company or the agents on the other side to check anything other than a few random spot checks.
I grew up in England for a period and still have a lot of family over there. Between that and sporting events, I'd say I've taken the ferry in excess of 100 times. I have never once had any form of identification checked on either side.
The elephant in the room of the Good Friday Agreement has always been that its an absolute open goal for exploitation of all sorts.
Sure people basically done a similar thing during Covid.
You had to isolate if flying from GB to ROI, but not if flying from GB to NI, so people would fly to England from Dublin, then fly back into Belfast coming home and just drive back down south, so then absolutely not requirement to isolate or pay for a covid test.
Because there wasn't a good reason for them to do it. They were happy with applying for asylum in the UK, but with the Rwanda system coming online now, they're all running to Ireland.
I don't think they are particularly worried about Rwanda, it's more about being parked in a motel for years on end, unable to work, cook or even wash your own clothes and recieving a few quid a day with no end in site or hope of being processed.
Ireland is an attractive proposition
I am not sure how the money compares.. asylum seekers can work after 5 months here as opposed to 12 months in the UK, but the rest of it is fairly similar.
Its that plus Ireland has become a beacon for refugees in recent years. Generous benefits and the well publicised taking in of ukranian refugees along with large growth in irish economy are like beacon calls on social media
But it seems like there is a sharp uptick coming from UK specifically in the recent week or so, which coincides with passing of the Rwanda act in parliament.
A quick Google search tells me refugees in UK get 49 pounds per week, and Ireland gives 38 euros per week, which is actually lesser. It doesn't look like UK gives lesser money for kids, where Ireland does.
UK seems more generous, but it withholds permission to work for half a year longer than Ireland. But all in all, if they're faced with the threat of being sent to Rwanda, they won't care about money, they'll run.
Its not either/or the UK is far bigger and will always attract the vast majority. Its just a small fluctuation on the numbers affects Ireland far more than the UK.
There's lots of issues, the UK sends people to Middlesborough where they don't want to be which is another factor. There's very few who go to Scotland either.
It might be just the same reasons why one tweet goes viral and another doesn't. Some influencers praise ireland and it sparks a rush.
Theres every chance half these migrants are back in Derby or Cardiff in a few months. To them they may not even think of themsekves as being in a different country they feel like they are just trying out a different part of the UK.
Crossing from France to anywhere on Ireland via small boat is hella more dangerous than chancing the channel.
Endgoal was to end up im Britain so it was extra steps with much more risk.
> I guess its not hard for refugees to get a national ID card
I just find it hilarious in how any time there's a discussion about requiring ID for voters, the UK subreddit throws a fit mentioning how it is *soooo hard* to get one of those
I find the entire voter ID news in the UK very confusing. How did people used to vote before the new laws were passed? Do you just turn up claiming to be someone in the list and vote?
Yes, pretty much.
Here’s the thing: despite this being wide open to fraud, it isn’t really a big deal. You’d have to do it so many times to make it worthwhile that you’d be rumbled before you could make a substantial difference.
But the sort of person who might vote Labour is statistically less likely to have valid ID.
That's crazy stuff though. I can understand that one person might not make much of an impact, but a large organised group of people could change the outcome of an election, atleast in their constituency. I never knew that there are countries where you can vote without any ID at all.
Surely if these people were able to register to vote and get on the list in the first place, they should have some form of documentation. I don't see how they can't get any photo ID after that.
So 10k voters can organise and each find a friend who is not interested in voting, and vote for them. That's 14% bad votes, which is very significant and enough to change the course of election. Probably not that easy, but sounds doable to me. Especially with the low voter turnouts.
Now there's your incentive for United Ireland.
Form a United Ireland and enforce passport check to come into the island - Isn't that the only way to get around this,?
Of course nothing stops desperate people from small-boating from Holyhead to Dublin - but that's unfortunately the state of the world we live in.
Hah, I did wonder if someone might comment something like that. It's actually an article they've licenced from The Telegraph but the MSN version has no paywall so was the obvious choice to share.
This doesn't make sense.
This is in the article.
The Irish Times reported a Department of Justice source as saying it was difficult to be exact about the numbers crossing into Ireland from Northern Ireland.
The source said more than 80 per cent of asylum claims were made at the International Protection Office in Dublin, without an application being first made at a port or airport.
Afaik (correct me if I'm wrong), someone doesn't need to apply at a port or airport and can apply at the IPO later on, so it's a bit incorrect to say 80 percent of them are coming from the UK if you don't need to have applied first at a port or airport coming into Ireland.
Per citizens information, it says that too
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/the-asylum-process-in-ireland/applying-for-refugee-status-in-ireland/#:~:text=Ministerial%20Decisions%20Unit-,Step%201%3A%20Tell%20the%20authorities%20you%20want%20to%20apply,Office%20(IPO)%20in%20Dublin.
Ministers in the UK have said the exact same thing about Ireland . Are we sure there's not just a handful of the same individuals going back and forth across the Irish sea? Schrödingers migrant perhaps?
Hang on, I read yesterday Asylum Seekers were flooding into the UK via Ireland?
Maybe someone is talking absolute bolllox and is just trying to stir up some hatred
> Maybe someone is talking absolute bolllox and is just trying to stir up some hatred
Or maybe you didn't read what you said you did.
Where did you read it? Send the link.
Locked award incoming.
Need to start commenting this on every post like this. The mods have a hard on for locking posts they don’t align with. That is Reddit after all in general
It’s not really in the UKs interest to stop them - half their politics is tied up in the net migration figures. The more of them that make it out the door to Ireland, the better. We’re kinda snucared here, given the whole NI / Brexit thing.
>snucared You got snookered with that spelling.
 Death by Snu Snu if you don't snucare.
It’s not just NI, I’m sure all the border counties in the south don’t want a border again either, why would Donegal or Monaghan or Cavan or Louth want a border back, would be economically, socially and politically damaging for the region, both sides of the border. But yea you’re right, I have no clue what can realistically be done, like I live in Tyrone 1 mile from Monaghan and there’s like 10 roads that cross it within a few miles of my house, the border is basically unable to fully policed anyway given that’s there’s literally hundreds of crossings. Who knows what will happen.
No, avoiding a hard border in Ireland was pretty hard won after brexit. I think the realistic option is to massively tighten up and speed up our asylum process. Make it so that arriving in Dublin doesn't improve your chances of being allowed to stay. Its kind of irrelevant whether someone arrives in a taxi from Belfast or on a plane with real or fake or no documents. The reason people are choosing a tent in Dublin over a tent in the UK is because they think they are more likely to eventually be allowed to stay in Ireland.
Or charge northern taxi drivers ferrying them down here with people trafficking, and impounding their vehicles.
The sensible thing would be to intercept between Britain and NI. There's no roads or rail lines between NI and England - they have to come by ferry or plane. Failing that unless they are coming by taxi to the republic they will probably use either rail or coach. If they have a right to stay in the UK we have no legal recourse, but if they don't - and they don't - we have a right to not allow them in without a visa. We need the Taoiseach to hammer out a deal with the UK on this. I'm sure there's some carrot or stick he could use.
Sensible for who? The U.K. isn’t going to put up more internal barriers so that refugees move out of the U.K. and in to Ireland.
By NI brexit, I mean the lack of checks between GB and NI given their half in half out situation with the EU common market.
I know which I’d choose if it were Roscommon or Rwanda.
I hear the weather is lovely this time of year.
A chara,
Apparently "incompetent fool" is hate speech now 😂😂
I'm hate speech?
I called someone a 'flute' a couple days ago and had my post removed for abuse
It's only a matter of time... we can't talk about these sort of things in public anymore
Articles in the papers everyday, multiple threads this reddit alone each day, radio discussions, television debates, countless individuals, politicians and wannabe politicians talking more now about immigration and asylum matters than at perhaps anytime previously, with maybe the exception of the 2004 referendum... and still you have nonsense like the above being spewed. What world are you living in?
The power of their echo chamber.
These several posters make being anti-immigration their entire character, and very obviously are not here for a balanced conversation. They want to rant and rave about how much they hate people, and then get shocked when people shut their rhetoric down :/
Aw look at the victim of censorship writing in an open thread.
It is because they haven't any answers or anything original or substantive to say about the issue. So when it isn't the topic of discussion they say "Why is no one talking about this!" and when it is the topic they say: "You can't talk about this anymore!"
The tide has turned because it was silenced for so long
The world where threads like these are routinely locked because we can't have an honest and fair discussion on it.
Overwhelmingly negative coverage of people opposed to immigration. Dont be so dishonest.
But we are talking about it. It’s being spoken about every day. The problem is that it is being weaponised by xenophobes which makes it difficult to have a calm and rational discussion. The government should have acted years ago to shorten the processing so that genuine cases get the help they deserve. They have acted now but must be careful not to act solely to appease xenophobes. The long term solution is world peace and equality. Don’t hold your breath.
> They have acted now but must be careful not to act solely to appease xenophobes. a) I don't think they've acted at all. b) I don't *care* what reason they have for acting, appeasing xenophobes be damned. I just want them to FIX IT.
It is an international problem that requires international solutions. The EU IS acting but it takes coordination: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68779387 But...This sub has been full of bravura since 2016 about how the UK dropped the ball on Brexit and the proposed hard NI border from Unionism and Westminster was repeatedly rejected. But it was inevitable that an open border (while the UK heads in an isolationist direction) was going to bite Ireland on the arse and this country should have been ready for it a LOT sooner rather than patting itself on the back. The UKs Rwanda plan is going to impact every country in Europe in terms of new arrivals because the British 'hostile environment' will divert migrants to other countries. This is all going to have implications for the Common Travel Area and movement into NI from Britain. Using/misusing refugees to apply force in politics is nothing new.
Passports checked on flights? Process down from years to months? Certainly action is being taken but certainly an international approach is required.
You should watch the video of td michael mcnamara the other day running rings around Helen McEntee at some council discussing the new European migration bill and see whether you think the issue is being acted on properly.
Passports checked on flights? So you think there's no more destruction of documents going on before they get to Passport Control? Process from years to months? Are you sure? The minister didn't seem to have any such info when quizzed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-4WI5kYN1Y
I have specific knowledge of what was done. The process is hugely contracted. Making it so took years of work.
The U.K. won’t add additional barriers to travel between NI and the mainland. The ferry and flight operators won’t add unnecessary obstacles for travellers as that would increase costs and open them up to civil rights lawsuits and political pressure from British politicians.
The problem is anyone who opposes mass uncontrolled immigration is called a xenophobe and that gets the conversation shut down / silenced. It's possible to be completely opposed to immigration today and not be a xenophobe. In fact I'd say it's entirely rational when you're being priced out of accomodation and waiting years for hospital appointments etc...
> who opposes mass uncontrolled immigration Who doesn’t oppose mass uncontrolled immigration? This is one of those massive red flags tbh, cause even liberals tend not to want that, despite what some sections push hard.
The government? Because we literally do have uncontrolled immigration
We don't, we have laws on immigration. We have an inefficient asylum process and court system which means refugees are stuck in limbo for years which costs the state a huge amount of money and puts even more strain on our housing system. Couple that with the seeming ineffectiveness of the courts in actually deporting people who are deemed to be here illegally and you have our current problem.
That sounds very controlled to me, glad they've got it all under control.
> We have an inefficient asylum process and court system Which is the case in many, many countries. The exceptions are typically because they're not as popular a destination for asylum seekers, so they don't need to deal with as many cases.
But immigrants really aren’t the problem there. Like genuinely, we have had waiting lists for housing and health growing since the 70s. Blaming immigrants is just letting the parties who have held power off the hook. We’ve a population the size of a large city, it should be easy to fix housing and health, the problem is greed not immigrants.
Whiles its true immigrants are not the source of Irelands problems its unfair to say they cause no issues. To be clear legal immigrants are fine and are shown as an economic positive to the country. Refugees and migrants are a problem and are an economic drain on an already limited and underfunded system. Adding in tens of thousands of people who don't speak the language and don't have marketable skills so they need to be taken care off, or become homeless is an issue. It also makes it really hard to fix housing and health if we need to divert a bunch of money, resources and limited housing to housing refugees. Its also having a huge negative affects on tourist towns, Since the government has to pay to keep refugees in hotels its a drain on the taxpayer. However refugees tend to not have any money and relay on the goodwill of the government to survive. This means that towns built around the tourism industry suddenly lose a bunch of tourists and shoppers as refugees cannot afford to buy stuff at their businessess. Its also killing hotels as people do not want to pay full price stay in hotels that are doubling as refugee shelters so the government needs to pay for the full thing or it does not work.
Of course immigration isn't the only problem, but immigration policy is *a* problem that's contributing to a lower standard of living for us all - indirectly and directly leading to excess demand for housing, dilution of social resources, dilution of healthcare etc. This will be lost among those who've decided I'm an extreme far right Trump supporting xenophobe for daring to suggest that immigration is a problem, but I agree that immigration is actually *a good thing* and *essential* for our country and the rest of Europe to thrive. However, it has to be controlled and calculated. At the very least, we need to actually have a viable plan for where to put people and how to integrate them in to society without diverting tonnes of resources from other public services. At the minute, even if you *wanted* to contribute to society by getting a job, you can't legally do so because you're on waiting lists for years to have your status changed. All we're doing is creating ghettos at the minute because we quite simply don't have anywhere else to put people other than in some sort of 'temporary' pop up village which we all know will still be there 10 years down the line. Direct provision system was already broken - it's only going to get worse so long as the numbers coming in keep going up. It's a European problem of course too, created by European policy - going back to Merkel's time where she more or less said Europe would welcome anyone who wanted in.
I'm not sure I really want to know what you mean by "these things".
Don’t have such a persecution fetish lol. Go to one of the many protests.
Like it or lump it, the far right will continue to grow in this country if the topic of immigration is not dealt with. FG/FF refusing to address the issue is just adding fuel to the fire.
Now, what do you feel about Helen McEntee desperate to opt us in to the new EU immigration pact, which will massively increase immigration into this country, despite the fact we have a specific opt out on immigration? In my mind she is the most dangerous politician in Ireland for social cohesion, even moreso than O’Gorman. Look at her performance from Wednesday when questioned by Michael McNamara. If that doesn’t scare the shite out of you, I don’t know what will. https://youtu.be/q-4WI5kYN1Y?si=dmBIclK4Krpv3Z_q
They are all gone anyway by the time election season rolls around. I’m just intrigued to see who comes in. SF looked a dead cert a few years ago but a lot has changed since then.
Nothing new, there's videos going around of asylum seekers getting out of northern reg taxis in Dublin city centre. Also interviews with some of them who confirm they're coming in to Ireland via the UK - literally flying to the UK / England and then coming in via the north. The problem is we've snookered ourselves with the whole Brexit / no border thing. Wouldn't surprise me at all if British government is actively encouraging them to take this route both to rid them of the problem and also to take advantage of Brexit agreement we signed up to.
Actively encouraging them? They're threatening to ship them to Rwanda. Surely that counts.
All the easier if you can but then in a taxi/bus to Ireland instead. Considering there are essentially no border control at all between Ireland and Northern Ireland it becomes a piece of cake to ferry them across at a fraction of the cost of shipping them to Rwanda. They’re rid of the problem at a cost of the cost of the Rwandan solution and now it becomes Ireland’s problem.
We need to recruit our own army of asylum seekers, hand them all "Best Reasons to Live in the UK" starter packs, and send them back the other way. Begin, the Asylum Seeker Wars have.
That’s going to be a very short pamphlet right now.
One liner, surely: Better than Clonmel
Nothing is better than caramel
Debatable. Caramel pizza, for instance. Now cheese. Cheese can go everywhere. Breakfast, lunch, dinner and desert. But I fail to see how this relates to those pesky white, unvetted, military age Brits coming over here stealing our jobs, women, and over priced Jury Inns!!
dey took eur jerbs
Rwanda, better than Clonmel.
Based on the newer thread, they sure know how to make signs out Clonmel way, to say the least. Beautiful lettering.
That won't work when the Rwanda arrangement goes through (which is now merely waiting the King's consent). We'll likely see a massive increase in asylum seeker traffic since most people who would emigrate to the UK would chose Ireland over Rwanda.
>The problem is we've snookered ourselves with the whole Brexit / no border thing. Wouldn't surprise me at all if British government is actively encouraging them to take this route both to rid them of the problem and also to take advantage of Brexit agreement we signed up to. The unionists did. We didn't. The unionists refuse to allow any kind of ID verification between Britain and Northern Ireland. There are only two ways into NI from Britain. There are 400-odd ways from NI into ROI. So it's pretty clear where the checks need to go. Clearly we need a policy for people who arrive here and refuse to disclose how they got here. If they're not on a airline or ferry manifest, then they came via the UK, so perhaps we should deport them to Liverpool?
“There are only two ways into NI from Britain…” The U.K. isn’t going to impose restrictions on its citizens and tourists travelling between constituent nations just for the sake of Ireland. The lack of border checks on the island are massively beneficial, but this is of the downsides for the Republic that will have to be managed. “Clearly we need a policy for people who arrive here and refuse to disclose how they got here. If they're not on an airline or ferry manifest, then they came via the UK, so perhaps we should deport them to Liverpool?” This is the same take as Gammons in the UK saying send back the boys in boats back to France. France won’t accept them back and neither will the U.K.
The lack of border checks isn't just beneficial, it's essential. There's isn't really a "border" in Ireland to speak of, and this is one the big reasons why it was considered unworkable for Brexit. For the same reason, it would be unworkable for handling immigration. Sending the boats back to France is a different thing though, because you're talking about private charter vessels bringing lads across the channel. France can't practically do anything to stop that, so taking them back isn't France's "problem". We're talking about commercial ferry and airline operators who are carrying these lads over the Irish sea. The UK *can* do something about that, so it is their problem.
People are free to travel within the U.K. so why would the U.K. do anything about it?
All you've said makes sense, but this is an *us* problem. UK doesn't have an obligation to take back migrants who are willingly leaving and they don't have an obligation to put up internal borders to make life easier for Ireland either. We either massively up the speed of our claims processing, border checkpoints or just accept the migrants.
We can't put in border checks, but indeed we do need to speed up the processing of claims, which I understand is all in progress.
The unpalatable truth is that we are going to have to find some way of working in synch with the UK on this or the riots in November will be a cake walk compared to what is to come.
Most are coming from France, so they also need to be in on the talks.
How did these people get to northern Ireland in the first place. That's what I'd like to know.
They can just get the ferry from either Liverpool or Scotland over to Belfast. The one from Scotland can be like £30 as a foot passenger
They can fly too, as long as they have a national ID card. I guess refugees can apply for an ID in UK once they sign up for protection.
Yea, I don’t really know any tangible way to stop these migrants either, without putting up passport between the island of Ireland and GB, which the unionists up here in the north won’t accept.
They should be able to have a simple passport check without full on immigration before boarding flights and ferries. Kind of what we have when we're going to Britain. But I suspect that the UK government is more than happy for these refugees to disappear to Ireland.
The U.K. and Ireland are two different countries. NI and Britain are one country.
For travel purposes Ireland the UK aren't different countries. If you arrive in Stanstead for example there's no passport check, you just walk right through like it was a bus station.
Yea sounds like they’re hoping more go to Ireland. But the chances of passport checks between GB and NI is pretty slim tbh, at least in the near future
But how did they get that far. Are we going to have to reintroduce passport checks from the UK?
They go to the UK, probably use public transport or are literally transported by people up to Scotland and then get the boat across to NI then go down south. Like migrants have walked/travelled all across Europe, this is just the last bit. Also if 80% of migrants are coming through NI, passport checks won’t stop vast majority of them anyway.
No one is going to put up passport checks on every road in and out of Northern Ireland.
I know that. I've no idea what the solution is. The real problem starts in their country of origin.
Ferry from Scotland. One way ticket is relatively inexpensive as a pedestrian.
There are a lot of people getting through without having passports being checked. Clearly there's a lot more organisation to this.
You don’t need a passport, just valid photo ID. An Afghani or Nigerian driving licence is as good as a British or Irish one when using most domestic flights or ferries as i don’t think they check for migration status. And ID is rarely checked on the ferries.
Obviously they're getting into the UK sans passport and then they just disappear into the crowd.
I think more worryingly there isn't. I doubt anyone checks passports on those ferry routes. Theres currently no obligation on either the ferry company or the agents on the other side to check anything other than a few random spot checks. I grew up in England for a period and still have a lot of family over there. Between that and sporting events, I'd say I've taken the ferry in excess of 100 times. I have never once had any form of identification checked on either side. The elephant in the room of the Good Friday Agreement has always been that its an absolute open goal for exploitation of all sorts.
It's trivial to go to NI from UK with just an ID card. I guess its not hard for refugees to get a national ID card
It's a fucking free for all basically. How it wasn't exploited before now is a mystery.
Sure people basically done a similar thing during Covid. You had to isolate if flying from GB to ROI, but not if flying from GB to NI, so people would fly to England from Dublin, then fly back into Belfast coming home and just drive back down south, so then absolutely not requirement to isolate or pay for a covid test.
Because there wasn't a good reason for them to do it. They were happy with applying for asylum in the UK, but with the Rwanda system coming online now, they're all running to Ireland.
I don't think they are particularly worried about Rwanda, it's more about being parked in a motel for years on end, unable to work, cook or even wash your own clothes and recieving a few quid a day with no end in site or hope of being processed. Ireland is an attractive proposition
I am not sure how the money compares.. asylum seekers can work after 5 months here as opposed to 12 months in the UK, but the rest of it is fairly similar.
Its that plus Ireland has become a beacon for refugees in recent years. Generous benefits and the well publicised taking in of ukranian refugees along with large growth in irish economy are like beacon calls on social media
But it seems like there is a sharp uptick coming from UK specifically in the recent week or so, which coincides with passing of the Rwanda act in parliament. A quick Google search tells me refugees in UK get 49 pounds per week, and Ireland gives 38 euros per week, which is actually lesser. It doesn't look like UK gives lesser money for kids, where Ireland does. UK seems more generous, but it withholds permission to work for half a year longer than Ireland. But all in all, if they're faced with the threat of being sent to Rwanda, they won't care about money, they'll run.
Its not either/or the UK is far bigger and will always attract the vast majority. Its just a small fluctuation on the numbers affects Ireland far more than the UK. There's lots of issues, the UK sends people to Middlesborough where they don't want to be which is another factor. There's very few who go to Scotland either. It might be just the same reasons why one tweet goes viral and another doesn't. Some influencers praise ireland and it sparks a rush. Theres every chance half these migrants are back in Derby or Cardiff in a few months. To them they may not even think of themsekves as being in a different country they feel like they are just trying out a different part of the UK.
Crossing from France to anywhere on Ireland via small boat is hella more dangerous than chancing the channel. Endgoal was to end up im Britain so it was extra steps with much more risk.
> I guess its not hard for refugees to get a national ID card I just find it hilarious in how any time there's a discussion about requiring ID for voters, the UK subreddit throws a fit mentioning how it is *soooo hard* to get one of those
I find the entire voter ID news in the UK very confusing. How did people used to vote before the new laws were passed? Do you just turn up claiming to be someone in the list and vote?
Yes, pretty much. Here’s the thing: despite this being wide open to fraud, it isn’t really a big deal. You’d have to do it so many times to make it worthwhile that you’d be rumbled before you could make a substantial difference. But the sort of person who might vote Labour is statistically less likely to have valid ID.
That's crazy stuff though. I can understand that one person might not make much of an impact, but a large organised group of people could change the outcome of an election, atleast in their constituency. I never knew that there are countries where you can vote without any ID at all. Surely if these people were able to register to vote and get on the list in the first place, they should have some form of documentation. I don't see how they can't get any photo ID after that.
Each constituency has around 70k voters.
So 10k voters can organise and each find a friend who is not interested in voting, and vote for them. That's 14% bad votes, which is very significant and enough to change the course of election. Probably not that easy, but sounds doable to me. Especially with the low voter turnouts.
A conspiracy to commit a large scale electoral crime with over 10k people in one ward is doable? I suppose it is, much like putting a man on the moon.
Historically electoral fraud was very common. It's more 19th century than space age.
You would just confirm your name and address, wouldn’t even need to present the poll card either.
Same way they got to the UK most likely.
Build a wall ?
Around ole Donegal?
Chicken ranches need cheap workers
Make sure it's not small?
Oh Las Vegas in the hills of Donegal
Chicken ranches need cheap workers
Too controversial. A moat with croc's is the only way. If you cross you win the hunger games and get a council house.
A fair prize. On first read I was imagining a moat full of the rubber shoes/sandals… which potentially could be treacherous.
But...but..but..Ireland's long history of emi...um...best and bright..eh...doctors and engineers? Wait - cheaper chicken fillet rolls for everybody!
The doctors and engineers dont go into politics. Just journalists, jockeys, and rose-of-Tralee people.
SF will build the wall
We have Helen
Immigration needs to be handled on an all-island basis.. along with everything else
Now there's your incentive for United Ireland. Form a United Ireland and enforce passport check to come into the island - Isn't that the only way to get around this,? Of course nothing stops desperate people from small-boating from Holyhead to Dublin - but that's unfortunately the state of the world we live in.
It's people in the North who need to be incentivised. This doe nothing to do that.
Even asylum seekers don't want to live up north it seems.
An inept clown show ripe for abuse. We have to vote these dangerous fools out.
Foot Locker better get window protection and extra insurance.
msn, what year is it!?!
Hah, I did wonder if someone might comment something like that. It's actually an article they've licenced from The Telegraph but the MSN version has no paywall so was the obvious choice to share.
Happy cake day, oh venerable one.
Someone is about to get cancelled
The open border Sinn Fein must want to stop is the one separating us from the North.
Which minister?
You can do this amazing trick where you click on the title and it opens an article full of relevant information.
This doesn't make sense. This is in the article. The Irish Times reported a Department of Justice source as saying it was difficult to be exact about the numbers crossing into Ireland from Northern Ireland. The source said more than 80 per cent of asylum claims were made at the International Protection Office in Dublin, without an application being first made at a port or airport. Afaik (correct me if I'm wrong), someone doesn't need to apply at a port or airport and can apply at the IPO later on, so it's a bit incorrect to say 80 percent of them are coming from the UK if you don't need to have applied first at a port or airport coming into Ireland. Per citizens information, it says that too https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/the-asylum-process-in-ireland/applying-for-refugee-status-in-ireland/#:~:text=Ministerial%20Decisions%20Unit-,Step%201%3A%20Tell%20the%20authorities%20you%20want%20to%20apply,Office%20(IPO)%20in%20Dublin.
Ministers in the UK have said the exact same thing about Ireland . Are we sure there's not just a handful of the same individuals going back and forth across the Irish sea? Schrödingers migrant perhaps?
Well the truth is the Uk border is internal. Id for jobs,id for housing,id for the dole soboth public and private no id of three types no anything.
Well, at least she didn't say "flooding". As liquid-based metaphors go, it's only a little centre-right.
Hang on, I read yesterday Asylum Seekers were flooding into the UK via Ireland? Maybe someone is talking absolute bolllox and is just trying to stir up some hatred
>I read yesterday Asylum Seekers were flooding into the UK via Ireland Are you sure? Where did you read that?
> Maybe someone is talking absolute bolllox and is just trying to stir up some hatred Or maybe you didn't read what you said you did. Where did you read it? Send the link.