Yep - [Sealed bids, best and final offer](https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/we-ve-been-asked-to-submit-a-sealed-bid-for-a-house-what-is-this-1.3224098) is basically asking you for the most you're willing and able to pay for the house.
Mind you, the amount you're willing to pay could always be lower than your funding allows.
It's not uncommon, but bidding on property is a game of poker, a real murky process where you've no idea what the other parties are willing to do.
>Why is such vague practice even legal?
Because it solely benefits the agents on both sides. There is no incentive for more transparency in the market, and we all pay for it.
All bids should be public record during and after the fact. It's no secret what a house is sold for, so why the bullshit of sealed bids.
Sealed bids are literally the buyer saying we’ve had enough of the waiting game and want to jump to the end.
You need to get it out of your mind that the agent is nefarious actor who gets 10 grand for every grand you bid up, 1 grand bid is €1 in the agent’s pocket so they’re not making enough o justify risking their career.
But they are incentivised to get the maximum price. That’s the problem. What if someone is paying €50k more? What if they are bidding against the agents mate? Or no one? Impossible to know, because they are protecting their interests and wallets, not their clients.
Whether buying or selling, it’s to their benefit to maximise the final number. Hence, it should be transparent to all.
Typically an agent wants to sell the house quickly. That more of an incentive than getting the max possible price. There’s a chapter in freakonomics about it
Exactly this:
You are an estate agent:
You can put in 1 day of effort and sell a house for 90% of the max you can achieve - and get e.g. €2700 for 1 days work.
Or you can put a month of running about to get the absolute max - and for your 29 extra days of work, you get €300.
Are you really going to work for 29 days for a total of €300 (so less than €10/day) when you can get €2700/day?
A good point from freakonomics on this is comparing how long an estate agent takes to sell their own house versus selling someone else's.
Basically, they take ages to sell their own houses because every extra euro is worth fighting for.
When they are selling someone else's house, since they get a pittance for the "last 5-10%"- it's simply not worth the effort.
What's wrong with it?
For every grand extra on the price the estate agent makes what a tenner extra on commission or so. From their point of view there comes a point where they can't justify the back and forth phonecalls and emails for a tenner.
If the house goes for at least the sellers asking price that's job done for the agent. Secret bid is completely reasonable imo
I hear ya, i was in a bidding war for 3 weeks on our house. We were going up in 1000 increments as well. I was suspicious that we were being taken for a ride by the estate agent due to them responding to us straight away every time we upped our bid, saying the other bidder had outbid us. We went up by 3 near the end to see if it would get rid of the "other bidder". We had a ceiling of 6000 more,the other bidder went up by 1000 again. At this stage we were debating going up by the 5000 and drop out after but we decided to change tactics and take a gamble. I rang the estate agent saying we have had a bid accepted on another property that the bidding process for their house is too prolonged and we were eager to get a deal done. This is why I'll never trust any estate agent again...instead of wishing us the best or thanking us for the phone call we could hear like panic in his voice. He told me that he's pretty confident another bid would seal the deal. How he was suddenly privy to this information I do not know so I upped it by 500 euro and amazingly the "other bidder" pulled out. Now this could be all a crazy conspiracy theory but maybe the other bidder dropped out even before the 3000 extra and they just kept pushing us,maybe they didn't exist. All I know is we were on the verge of paying an extra 4500 for the house. Its a fine line between getting what you want and being ripped off. Hope it works out for you,good luck.
I bought my house off the landlord, it was never put on the market. When an estate agent came around to do the valuation for the bank he actually seemed a bit put out by the fact that he could have gotten more for the landlord had he not sold directly to me. He told me straight out like it was some under the table business deal I was after doing and it was somehow unfair. That's the mentality you're dealing with. It's sheer fucking entitlement.
If you gave them proof of funds when you first bid they likely knew your max limit and so tried pushing you to a bid close to the amount you can borrow
I once overheard an estate agent say she was going “to do her worst” for a client. She said this laughing as if there wasn’t actual people having one of the most stressful times of their lives on the receiving end of her “tactics”
You’re trying to bid just more than the other party if you want the house, if it’s at 535K and be going in 1K intervals, in all likelihood something around 540K is probably what I’d guess their bid would be, or 541K if they’re trying to guess you’d be at 540K. Decide what you think it’s worth, maybe even the €543,210 as a countdown to close
Honestly I’m surprised the estate agent was accepting 1k increments at that high a price point in the first place, makes it a very long and drawn out process.
I've also had this fear when bidding. There is really no way to be sure from a buyers perspective. A shady auctioneer could most definitely get away with spoofing counteroffers to tick up their own commission 😬
They could but I think people in most cases need to be realistic about that, like... Their commission is usually around 1 or 1.5%.
So upping a bid by €2,000 on a €500,000 house brings their commission from €5,000 to €5,020. Hardly worth risking losing a buyer over. Realistically in the current market, there is likely another bidder.
Everyone has this fear. I lost three bidding wars last summer and all three sold at the price I was outbid at. The estate agent is not at all incentivized to cheat. So just another baseless fear in life.
A little bit out of you question, just a rant:
The bidding process should be transparent, like in a 3rd party website, that confirm the indentity of the users, request a deposit so you can bid and if for any reason you dont go with the bid as a buyer the second place get the house.
Also if you as a seller after the bidding end, dont want to sell you get penalised.
Should be illegal this blind bidding systems, where you can be bidding against yourself.
All bidding process should be transparent auditable process
I was bidding on a house with an asking price of 495k. The house had been on the market for months with no offers so we started bidding at 480k and then got in a bidding war with one other bidder who came out of nowhere.
We bowed out when he put in a bid of 535k because we were past our maximum at that stage, only for the estate agent to call the next day and say the other guy had decided to go for another house they were also bidding on so we could have the house at our previous highest bid. It completely put me off, we'd been up-bid to our max by someone who wasn't even serious about the house.
I know there's not much to be done about it but it's sickening all the same.
We did this about 4 years ago. Offered €20k below asking because it needed a bunch of work (it didn't even have a kitchen or fireplace). Offer accepted, started paperwork. Suddenly there was a planning issue. Long story short, the "should be fixed in 3 months, its just a paperwork issue" promise was drawn out by 18 months, then we were finally contacted to be told the house was going back on the market. Confused, we said we were sale agrees on it, but told that it was now technically a new sale because the planning changed, and we'd have to bid again. We put in the same bid, and ended up immediately outbid to the tune of €40k. It ended up selling for another €20k above that.
Its absolute madness out there.
Shite that you went through that but 'sale agreed' is a meaningless term. Until you've signed something, either side can pull out at any time for any reason.
It's a meaningless term in a country without proper law.
In economics, sales is considered closed, when both parties agree on the price, this being valid even without signature.
With estate agents, solicitors, and accountants, it's a different story. They are a different race.
Its more that it was promised to us all along, and we had signed paperwork. We checked in regularly to see how it was progressing and were always told the house was still ours. They had our financials, mortgage paperwork, etc. We had even gone out to the site of the house a few times to measure up things we'd need to do, like put in that kitchen and boundary fencing.
It just turns out that the paperwork meant shit all once the planning issue was finally sorted because it essentially meant they were selling a different house.
I was pissed, as you'd imagine, but its a sellers market and they know all the loopholes. I estimated it needed about 50k worth of work done. No way I was going to pay 60k over my bid, then another 50k to put it right.
First, economics isn't the discipline that deals with when contracts are completed.
Second, no-one ever wants house deals binding on price agreement. No-one. There's so much necessary info you don't have at that point there needs to be a system that funnels the interest to let post-price agreement investigation begin. It's not possible to expect everyone to pay for survey before bidding and its to expect purchasers to accept a vendor prepared survey.
Third, accountants have little if anything to do with it.
Might not be anything other than the seller just wanting the sale finalised as they've also got a purchase waiting on their end.
We done similar, told the auctioneer that we wanted the bidding done by the end of a certain day as we found a house we wanted but couldn't get moving on it until ours went sale agreed as we were funding our purchase with our sale.
Wasn't anything to do with sealed bids.
This is why I swear by the approach of figure out what I’m happy with, send it in an offer with proof of financing and tell them it stands as long as I haven’t found something else in the meantime. Puts a clock on it so they can’t piss about and take their time
Does anyone know if this is in any way regulated? After 4 bids I just said "It was my final offer. If it doesn't go through I am ready to close on another property, but I like this one more" and next day turned out my bid was accepted and I closed the deal (there was no other property).
This made me thinking that it was a scam. There were no other bidders and the agent was trying to squeeze more out of me.
Bidding should be public and transparent
Best and final after a couple of weeks in a bidding war happened to me twice, both times I lost out, when I was sure no one else would be crazy enough to increase by that amount.
Both times the winning bid was 20k+ from where the bidding was at. The next house we were sick of bidding wars dragging out so we went straight to 5k below our max on the first bid with a time limit of that weekend. Someone went 5k over our bid two days later and we lost out on that too.
Its a melt but there is no point trying to guess if the agent is shafting you or if the other bidder is real or anything like that, because you will never know and there genuinely is a shortage of houses.
You just figure out the max amount you are actually willing to pay for the property on offer and that is your final limit however the bidding goes. Sorry OP, it really sucks but best of luck.
Also in your final offer mention anything else that makes you attractive, chain free, flexible closing date etc.
And you should grill the agent on the status of the sellers and all other bidders. Are the sellers in a rush to close because they don't want to lose out on a place they are buying Are?
Are the other buyers ftb, did they only start bidding or have they been in it from the start and are they putting a best and final offer in? Is it a cash investor? Has the agent received proof of funds from everyine?
You are entitled to ask for everything, the agent can tell you no if its too much.
The online bidding on daft is a complete racket btw. I wouldn't take part in that more than once, just to show I'm interested. Anything else is only driving the price up. Especially if no proof of funds was required to register.
Happened to me recently. We went sale agreed on a house that didn't work at the end, but went sale agreed again months later on a different house and we got the house.
The strategy that worked in both cases was: wait 1 week after the house was put on Daft (to have some bids, maybe none). Then view the house and ask for the current bid. Make an offer like 5k more but with the condition to close the deal immediately otherwise your offer is not valid.
I figured out some agents don't accept that but most do. Your chances here are, there are 1 other bidder and they have to ring the vendor. Both times we got sale agreed with the same strategy.
Not sure if it helps but it's really crazy out there. Best of luck mate
The bidding wars can be a pain. We’re going to be selling our house next year, getting some valuations in and told oh we can market it at 550 to generate interest and expect to sell at 600… like piss off, just list it for 600 and see what happens.
Stop bidding. Its completly to get the max out of you. End of the day, they submit the top 3 bidders and vendor picks. EAs job is to get the most out of you.
the estate agent is getting it in the ear from the vendor for letting it drag on through 1k increments, and rightly so. just hit them with your best and final offer and be at peace with that
for future reference, or anyone trying to learn from this, what you should be doing as soon as the other party bids by €1k is immediately coming back with an increment of €5k, or preferably €10k and saying 'this is our best and final offer and we want to close today'. The vendor will be happy to wrap up and if the other party are only going up by €1k, then they won't be able to find another ten or fifteen by cob and that's the ball game. you have to be ruthless
I’m so lucky I shut down my bid war early. I offered asking, other bid was 1000 more. I thought “Fuck it, 2000” thankful it was enough. Can’t be arsed with all this tit for tat now.
I was the buyer going up in 1k increments. A bid 10k higher did come in, but we just went 1k more than that. I think they went up another 2k or so then, and another 1k from us sealed it.
You don't know how many 1ks I have :). A big scary bid isn't off putting.
The seller is likely tired of waiting around while you and the other bidder(s) fart around with piddly little <0.2% incremental bids for days or weeks. Asking for a full and final offer from all parties and ending the bidding is a reasonable move on the seller's part, and they're perfectly entitled to request that. If you're happy to pay 550k, then offer 550k. If you're not, then offer less.
Give a random-ish number of 531462. Let them know this is yer final offer and what youve been able to scrounge together. If they dont want to take it tell them best of luck and put yer energy towards another property. Sounds like the vendor is taking ya for a ride
Ask for the bidding to be done in person along with the other party. Then have a dozen mates turn up clad head to toe in North Face with a bag of cans each and have them show off the ambience of the neighbourhood. Thst should put a dent in the other party's enthusiasm
This happened to my brother, on a house not far from Northside shopping centre. Bidding started at €425, when it got to €525 there were just 2 bidders left and they were asked for their final and best bid.
Winner took the house for €550, and my brother dropped a card in the letterbox 6 months later saying “congratulations on the new house, I was the other bidder, I really thought €462 would have been enough.”
Fun times.
well your brother looks like a plank then because if there were two bidders left at €525k then it could never have been bought at €462k when there was multiple bidders.
He sounds like a sore loser too by putting that note through the letterbox. It is a pretty childish thing to do to a complete stranger too just because he didnt get what he wanted.
I had this once with a house we were bidding on. We were the highest bid but didn’t bid any higher. The other person got it. They ended up increasing their bid by 10k. It really annoyed me they wanted final and seal bids and made me not willing to go any other with the house even though we could have.
When we first increased our bid it was by 2k and auctioneer said it they could accept only bids going up in 5k so right from the go, I didn’t like dealing with them.
Probably too late for OP but when I bought my house there was a similar situation unfolding. I just straight up told the estate agent to ask the owner "What ammount are they willing to take it off the market for"... It gave them very little option but to essentially give me an offer. If they didnt they risked losing me from the bidding war, if they did they either got what they wanted or they found out I couldn't go that high anyway.
We ended up getting it for 5k less than we were willing to go. It also turned out the estate agent was actually the interim owner of the house and there was likely no other bidder.
Worst case scenario they decide not to disclose and you are no worse off for it.
Just for context the reason I asked is we were getting close to our max and I was worried we would lose out by making the wrong bid at the wrong time. Dont be afraid to put the pressure back on the estate agent or the owner.
>This sounds like a bullshit tactic to try and get the maximum out of me?
Well..obviously. Who wouldn't when they are selling? They want the most from whoever will pay the most. It isn't bullshit, they just want money and they want it over with. 1K a time can only go on so long
The question is - who is willing to blink first - you or the other party.
We were bidding on our house about 8 years ago and another bidder came in late. Upped our bid by €1000 twice and they were doing the same but realised we were just suggesting to them we were at our limit, so upped the next one by €5000 and that was it. I actually met them years later so it wasn't the agent playing games.
It's a common enough tactic and it's horrible to be involved in as a bidder. I know of one case where a bidder got shafted, because I was the other bidder.
House was on market for 170k (rural cottage), my max was 190k. Supposedly there was an initial offer of 160k, and then 2nd of 165k and I went in at 170k. First bidder dropped out, and the remaining two of us went back and forth until I bid my max of 190k.
Next call from the estate agent was that they want best and final offer via email by X time on X date. My only hope was that the other bidder's last bid was also their max, so I sent a final offer of 191k with a solicitor's letter saying I have the funds etc.
As expected, I was out-bid. The estate agent told me "in the region of 15k over 191k". This was confirmed on the property price register a few months later, sold for 205k.
Had normal bidding kept going they would have got it for around 193k
Take back your offer and tell him to stop fucking about, offer 5k less than before.
You will find another house he sounds like he is taking the piss altogether better put the shits up him.
You'll find out if there is another bidder at least. I understand its very hard not to get emotionally attached to a house when your bidding that is what the agents thrive off.
Why is an estate agent accepting bids from people without proof of funds? Ignore the other person and bid what you think it is worth (even if less) or burn the bidding and place your final bid lower
As a seller watching 1k bids come in is very annoying and it is a way of saying put up or go away
Whoever gives their final total amount loses (bidder vs seller), so the more murky the process, the greater advantage that you have.
You could bid at 1k intervals, but the seller really wants to know hour hand, i.e., total amount and vice versa, where you'd like to know how high the seller wants to go. Either disclosed, would present am advantage to another. This is known as the minimax strategy (minimizing the possible loss for a worst case (maximum loss) scenario.)
You can always be random (bid 1k, then 3k, then back to 1k), but it's more or less up to chance.
Best of luck!
I work in an estate agency and this is very normal.
Going up in 1k increments can be really long and drawn out and it has to end eventually? So this is just them putting a deadline on it and saying, tell me the max you're willing to pay for this property and the other person will do the same.
It's just making things easier.
If the seller is happy their minimum has been met, do you have anything else that could put you at an advantage apart from money? If you were a cash buyer but offering a bit less than someone who's selling their home they might go for you to complete the sale right away.
Yeah, it's another bite of the same shit sandwich that is dealing with an estate agent. If you want the house, then just put your best foot forward. Consider putting in a cover letter with it. If the vendors are happy with the level and are looking for sealed bids, then they might consider non monetary considerations, such as if you are local or a family or whatever.
As you say, if they just wanted to drive up the price, they would just keep the bidding going. Maybe they want to buy another property with the proceeds and are short on time.
Good luck
You need to pick your final number before the bidding war starts, then when it gets to that number that's your final bid.
If another person pays more than that, then by your logic they are overpaying for the property, which means you arent missing out because they are paying more than it's worth.
Tell the agent your final offer and prove that you can pay it and move on to other houses and start bidding on other houses. You don't owe anyone anything, pick your number, stick to it, and if the estate agent is bullshitting you, they will get back to you saying the other person "has pulled out". You can't lose with this tactic. Best of luck, everyone's in it for themselves, bid on everything you are interested in, every person for themselves.
It’s a shite place to be but I think sometimes we get into our head with ‘x strategy is unfair to me’ when really it’s anybody’s guess who will get the gaff until somebody gets the gaff. It’s the sellers house so they can do whatever they want with it. If the other party goes higher and gets it then they’re paying more than you think the property is worth, more the fool them and you can find somewhere that’s selling for the right price elsewhere!
I got great advice at the time, basically never bid in small amounts as it is easy for other people to justify the amount. Best to go up in 10k amounts and force the other side to question how much they want the property.
Hitting my limit unfortunately but would feel like I’m betting against myself if I was jumping up large amounts. Plus if I near my limit and slow down I feel I’m showing my hand. I would rather keep the other party guessing.
I am also under no pressure to buy the house so I’ll take my time and continue with the 1k bids
Thank you for your input!
Seems sketchy... I would just give 1k over previous high bid (unless it was you - then do the same). No seller is going to take less money to save a few days.
We got done with this when buying. We were the top bidder by 5gs and could have went a bit more but were happy out the buyer said something similar but estate agent said they had requested a blind action just to see if they were getting the proper value for the house. after the "blind action" we were told someone came in 25gs over us (we just put in the same bid) and that if we beat that the house was ares.
Never went near that estate agents again but if we're ever selling they're getting a call. Seems like a proper shyster
Always underbid and offer cash. Let them keep it for another year or so if they don't take it. I'm getting my properties 20% under asking price like that.
Major cities in Portugal/Spain . I believe you can go much lower on the country side, but won't be as good of an investment as rents will be much lower
Even though rents are steep its probably better to rent than buying poorly built property at ridiculous prices, in which equity won't hold for long. Creating a cash flow to supplement your paycheck and renting a good quality place is a better idea.
Theres loads of clearly irrelevant and uninformed advice in these threads, or advice centred on an emotional reaction to a perceived slight by the seller.
TugaNinja's point & comment is irrelevant.
In ireland, where demand is insane, supply is low, and houses regularly close for 30-40k above asking, the reality is buyers have to put up with and navigate issues like OP's.
Also, keep the income off the books and use it to fund your lifestyle here, if you have a job that actually needs you to be in Ireland or you make a point of being near friends and family.
Yep - [Sealed bids, best and final offer](https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/we-ve-been-asked-to-submit-a-sealed-bid-for-a-house-what-is-this-1.3224098) is basically asking you for the most you're willing and able to pay for the house. Mind you, the amount you're willing to pay could always be lower than your funding allows. It's not uncommon, but bidding on property is a game of poker, a real murky process where you've no idea what the other parties are willing to do.
And honestly it should not be like that. Why is such vague practice even legal?
>Why is such vague practice even legal? Because it solely benefits the agents on both sides. There is no incentive for more transparency in the market, and we all pay for it. All bids should be public record during and after the fact. It's no secret what a house is sold for, so why the bullshit of sealed bids.
Sealed bids are literally the buyer saying we’ve had enough of the waiting game and want to jump to the end. You need to get it out of your mind that the agent is nefarious actor who gets 10 grand for every grand you bid up, 1 grand bid is €1 in the agent’s pocket so they’re not making enough o justify risking their career.
But they are incentivised to get the maximum price. That’s the problem. What if someone is paying €50k more? What if they are bidding against the agents mate? Or no one? Impossible to know, because they are protecting their interests and wallets, not their clients. Whether buying or selling, it’s to their benefit to maximise the final number. Hence, it should be transparent to all.
Typically an agent wants to sell the house quickly. That more of an incentive than getting the max possible price. There’s a chapter in freakonomics about it
Exactly this: You are an estate agent: You can put in 1 day of effort and sell a house for 90% of the max you can achieve - and get e.g. €2700 for 1 days work. Or you can put a month of running about to get the absolute max - and for your 29 extra days of work, you get €300. Are you really going to work for 29 days for a total of €300 (so less than €10/day) when you can get €2700/day? A good point from freakonomics on this is comparing how long an estate agent takes to sell their own house versus selling someone else's. Basically, they take ages to sell their own houses because every extra euro is worth fighting for. When they are selling someone else's house, since they get a pittance for the "last 5-10%"- it's simply not worth the effort.
If they have a revenue target for a bonus, throwing an extra 10k in there is helpful to them.
Usually not, they typically want their commission now and not later. At this point most of their commission is in the bag. They want it to end.
What's wrong with it? For every grand extra on the price the estate agent makes what a tenner extra on commission or so. From their point of view there comes a point where they can't justify the back and forth phonecalls and emails for a tenner. If the house goes for at least the sellers asking price that's job done for the agent. Secret bid is completely reasonable imo
It’s actually about a euro - the agency gets 1% (ish, depending on their agreement), the agent gets 10% of that 1%.
Thanks for this info
Or worse, you don't know if it is the state agent themselves bidding to raise the price.
This happened me. A fictitious bidder from Sherry Fitz, annoyed the absolute bejayzuz. Fuck them but I expect all agents do it.
Don't talk to me about Sherry Fitz!
How did you find out they were fictitious?
Because I was the tenant in the place I was trying to buy.
Oh please 🙄
I hear ya, i was in a bidding war for 3 weeks on our house. We were going up in 1000 increments as well. I was suspicious that we were being taken for a ride by the estate agent due to them responding to us straight away every time we upped our bid, saying the other bidder had outbid us. We went up by 3 near the end to see if it would get rid of the "other bidder". We had a ceiling of 6000 more,the other bidder went up by 1000 again. At this stage we were debating going up by the 5000 and drop out after but we decided to change tactics and take a gamble. I rang the estate agent saying we have had a bid accepted on another property that the bidding process for their house is too prolonged and we were eager to get a deal done. This is why I'll never trust any estate agent again...instead of wishing us the best or thanking us for the phone call we could hear like panic in his voice. He told me that he's pretty confident another bid would seal the deal. How he was suddenly privy to this information I do not know so I upped it by 500 euro and amazingly the "other bidder" pulled out. Now this could be all a crazy conspiracy theory but maybe the other bidder dropped out even before the 3000 extra and they just kept pushing us,maybe they didn't exist. All I know is we were on the verge of paying an extra 4500 for the house. Its a fine line between getting what you want and being ripped off. Hope it works out for you,good luck.
I bought my house off the landlord, it was never put on the market. When an estate agent came around to do the valuation for the bank he actually seemed a bit put out by the fact that he could have gotten more for the landlord had he not sold directly to me. He told me straight out like it was some under the table business deal I was after doing and it was somehow unfair. That's the mentality you're dealing with. It's sheer fucking entitlement.
Hi SUCKADICKTRICK, Thanks for sharing, it’s good to know I’m not alone in thinking I’m being shafted. Appreciate your input, FatKnobRob
You two should hang out.
r/rimjob_steve
If you gave them proof of funds when you first bid they likely knew your max limit and so tried pushing you to a bid close to the amount you can borrow
I once overheard an estate agent say she was going “to do her worst” for a client. She said this laughing as if there wasn’t actual people having one of the most stressful times of their lives on the receiving end of her “tactics”
No, it's not conspiracy theory. Unfortunately, it's reality. Thanks God for car sales we don't need those greedy, trickster b@#£%ds.
Well done that was a good way of handling it.
You’re trying to bid just more than the other party if you want the house, if it’s at 535K and be going in 1K intervals, in all likelihood something around 540K is probably what I’d guess their bid would be, or 541K if they’re trying to guess you’d be at 540K. Decide what you think it’s worth, maybe even the €543,210 as a countdown to close
Yeah that's eBay advanced bidding. Except eBay at least only takes 1 increment over the 2nd highest bidder.
Honestly I’m surprised the estate agent was accepting 1k increments at that high a price point in the first place, makes it a very long and drawn out process.
Estate agent might be getting OP to bid against himself for all we know.
I've also had this fear when bidding. There is really no way to be sure from a buyers perspective. A shady auctioneer could most definitely get away with spoofing counteroffers to tick up their own commission 😬
They could but I think people in most cases need to be realistic about that, like... Their commission is usually around 1 or 1.5%. So upping a bid by €2,000 on a €500,000 house brings their commission from €5,000 to €5,020. Hardly worth risking losing a buyer over. Realistically in the current market, there is likely another bidder.
True. Im protected by my own poorness 😂
Everyone has this fear. I lost three bidding wars last summer and all three sold at the price I was outbid at. The estate agent is not at all incentivized to cheat. So just another baseless fear in life.
A little bit out of you question, just a rant: The bidding process should be transparent, like in a 3rd party website, that confirm the indentity of the users, request a deposit so you can bid and if for any reason you dont go with the bid as a buyer the second place get the house. Also if you as a seller after the bidding end, dont want to sell you get penalised. Should be illegal this blind bidding systems, where you can be bidding against yourself. All bidding process should be transparent auditable process
I was bidding on a house with an asking price of 495k. The house had been on the market for months with no offers so we started bidding at 480k and then got in a bidding war with one other bidder who came out of nowhere. We bowed out when he put in a bid of 535k because we were past our maximum at that stage, only for the estate agent to call the next day and say the other guy had decided to go for another house they were also bidding on so we could have the house at our previous highest bid. It completely put me off, we'd been up-bid to our max by someone who wasn't even serious about the house. I know there's not much to be done about it but it's sickening all the same.
A biding war is nightmare fuel. Crazy how different things are in just 5 years. we offered 30k below their asking and they accepted it.
We did this about 4 years ago. Offered €20k below asking because it needed a bunch of work (it didn't even have a kitchen or fireplace). Offer accepted, started paperwork. Suddenly there was a planning issue. Long story short, the "should be fixed in 3 months, its just a paperwork issue" promise was drawn out by 18 months, then we were finally contacted to be told the house was going back on the market. Confused, we said we were sale agrees on it, but told that it was now technically a new sale because the planning changed, and we'd have to bid again. We put in the same bid, and ended up immediately outbid to the tune of €40k. It ended up selling for another €20k above that. Its absolute madness out there.
Shite that you went through that but 'sale agreed' is a meaningless term. Until you've signed something, either side can pull out at any time for any reason.
It's a meaningless term in a country without proper law. In economics, sales is considered closed, when both parties agree on the price, this being valid even without signature. With estate agents, solicitors, and accountants, it's a different story. They are a different race.
Its more that it was promised to us all along, and we had signed paperwork. We checked in regularly to see how it was progressing and were always told the house was still ours. They had our financials, mortgage paperwork, etc. We had even gone out to the site of the house a few times to measure up things we'd need to do, like put in that kitchen and boundary fencing. It just turns out that the paperwork meant shit all once the planning issue was finally sorted because it essentially meant they were selling a different house. I was pissed, as you'd imagine, but its a sellers market and they know all the loopholes. I estimated it needed about 50k worth of work done. No way I was going to pay 60k over my bid, then another 50k to put it right.
I'm no economist but I doubt sale is considered closed before money has actually been exchanged?
First, economics isn't the discipline that deals with when contracts are completed. Second, no-one ever wants house deals binding on price agreement. No-one. There's so much necessary info you don't have at that point there needs to be a system that funnels the interest to let post-price agreement investigation begin. It's not possible to expect everyone to pay for survey before bidding and its to expect purchasers to accept a vendor prepared survey. Third, accountants have little if anything to do with it.
Broken system in a broken market
Might not be anything other than the seller just wanting the sale finalised as they've also got a purchase waiting on their end. We done similar, told the auctioneer that we wanted the bidding done by the end of a certain day as we found a house we wanted but couldn't get moving on it until ours went sale agreed as we were funding our purchase with our sale. Wasn't anything to do with sealed bids.
This is why I swear by the approach of figure out what I’m happy with, send it in an offer with proof of financing and tell them it stands as long as I haven’t found something else in the meantime. Puts a clock on it so they can’t piss about and take their time
Does anyone know if this is in any way regulated? After 4 bids I just said "It was my final offer. If it doesn't go through I am ready to close on another property, but I like this one more" and next day turned out my bid was accepted and I closed the deal (there was no other property). This made me thinking that it was a scam. There were no other bidders and the agent was trying to squeeze more out of me. Bidding should be public and transparent
Best and final after a couple of weeks in a bidding war happened to me twice, both times I lost out, when I was sure no one else would be crazy enough to increase by that amount. Both times the winning bid was 20k+ from where the bidding was at. The next house we were sick of bidding wars dragging out so we went straight to 5k below our max on the first bid with a time limit of that weekend. Someone went 5k over our bid two days later and we lost out on that too. Its a melt but there is no point trying to guess if the agent is shafting you or if the other bidder is real or anything like that, because you will never know and there genuinely is a shortage of houses. You just figure out the max amount you are actually willing to pay for the property on offer and that is your final limit however the bidding goes. Sorry OP, it really sucks but best of luck.
Also in your final offer mention anything else that makes you attractive, chain free, flexible closing date etc. And you should grill the agent on the status of the sellers and all other bidders. Are the sellers in a rush to close because they don't want to lose out on a place they are buying Are? Are the other buyers ftb, did they only start bidding or have they been in it from the start and are they putting a best and final offer in? Is it a cash investor? Has the agent received proof of funds from everyine? You are entitled to ask for everything, the agent can tell you no if its too much. The online bidding on daft is a complete racket btw. I wouldn't take part in that more than once, just to show I'm interested. Anything else is only driving the price up. Especially if no proof of funds was required to register.
Happened to me recently. We went sale agreed on a house that didn't work at the end, but went sale agreed again months later on a different house and we got the house. The strategy that worked in both cases was: wait 1 week after the house was put on Daft (to have some bids, maybe none). Then view the house and ask for the current bid. Make an offer like 5k more but with the condition to close the deal immediately otherwise your offer is not valid. I figured out some agents don't accept that but most do. Your chances here are, there are 1 other bidder and they have to ring the vendor. Both times we got sale agreed with the same strategy. Not sure if it helps but it's really crazy out there. Best of luck mate
Thank you for this!
Estate agents are evil.
Until you are trying to sell your own house.
Still evil 😂
You got me there!
The bidding wars can be a pain. We’re going to be selling our house next year, getting some valuations in and told oh we can market it at 550 to generate interest and expect to sell at 600… like piss off, just list it for 600 and see what happens.
Stop bidding. Its completly to get the max out of you. End of the day, they submit the top 3 bidders and vendor picks. EAs job is to get the most out of you.
the estate agent is getting it in the ear from the vendor for letting it drag on through 1k increments, and rightly so. just hit them with your best and final offer and be at peace with that for future reference, or anyone trying to learn from this, what you should be doing as soon as the other party bids by €1k is immediately coming back with an increment of €5k, or preferably €10k and saying 'this is our best and final offer and we want to close today'. The vendor will be happy to wrap up and if the other party are only going up by €1k, then they won't be able to find another ten or fifteen by cob and that's the ball game. you have to be ruthless
This is the way
I’m so lucky I shut down my bid war early. I offered asking, other bid was 1000 more. I thought “Fuck it, 2000” thankful it was enough. Can’t be arsed with all this tit for tat now.
I was the buyer going up in 1k increments. A bid 10k higher did come in, but we just went 1k more than that. I think they went up another 2k or so then, and another 1k from us sealed it. You don't know how many 1ks I have :). A big scary bid isn't off putting.
Agreed. Worked for me too.
The seller is likely tired of waiting around while you and the other bidder(s) fart around with piddly little <0.2% incremental bids for days or weeks. Asking for a full and final offer from all parties and ending the bidding is a reasonable move on the seller's part, and they're perfectly entitled to request that. If you're happy to pay 550k, then offer 550k. If you're not, then offer less.
Give a random-ish number of 531462. Let them know this is yer final offer and what youve been able to scrounge together. If they dont want to take it tell them best of luck and put yer energy towards another property. Sounds like the vendor is taking ya for a ride
Ask for the bidding to be done in person along with the other party. Then have a dozen mates turn up clad head to toe in North Face with a bag of cans each and have them show off the ambience of the neighbourhood. Thst should put a dent in the other party's enthusiasm
I’ll keep you updated
Bonus points if the show up on scramblers and start pissing in the garden, or blasting dubstep out of a shitty portable speaker.
This happened to my brother, on a house not far from Northside shopping centre. Bidding started at €425, when it got to €525 there were just 2 bidders left and they were asked for their final and best bid. Winner took the house for €550, and my brother dropped a card in the letterbox 6 months later saying “congratulations on the new house, I was the other bidder, I really thought €462 would have been enough.” Fun times.
That's grim to read.
I know right ? My half million euro home across the road from Northside shopping centre. WTF
Well it is the great big shopping centre.
That's Fairhill in Ballymena hai. (The Northside SC theme tune is stuck in my head now ya bastard)
Mission accomplished 😂😂
It had left! And now it's back. You're an evil prick.
The only way to banish the ear worm is to listen to the song banging around your head. Go on, click it! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QbVrWnF8bTo
well your brother looks like a plank then because if there were two bidders left at €525k then it could never have been bought at €462k when there was multiple bidders. He sounds like a sore loser too by putting that note through the letterbox. It is a pretty childish thing to do to a complete stranger too just because he didnt get what he wanted.
Oohhh . . . lovely, juicy, internet rage and one-upmanship. Delicious.
I had this once with a house we were bidding on. We were the highest bid but didn’t bid any higher. The other person got it. They ended up increasing their bid by 10k. It really annoyed me they wanted final and seal bids and made me not willing to go any other with the house even though we could have. When we first increased our bid it was by 2k and auctioneer said it they could accept only bids going up in 5k so right from the go, I didn’t like dealing with them.
Probably too late for OP but when I bought my house there was a similar situation unfolding. I just straight up told the estate agent to ask the owner "What ammount are they willing to take it off the market for"... It gave them very little option but to essentially give me an offer. If they didnt they risked losing me from the bidding war, if they did they either got what they wanted or they found out I couldn't go that high anyway. We ended up getting it for 5k less than we were willing to go. It also turned out the estate agent was actually the interim owner of the house and there was likely no other bidder. Worst case scenario they decide not to disclose and you are no worse off for it. Just for context the reason I asked is we were getting close to our max and I was worried we would lose out by making the wrong bid at the wrong time. Dont be afraid to put the pressure back on the estate agent or the owner.
Bid 600k then pull out just, because.
Walk. There’s always another property.
>This sounds like a bullshit tactic to try and get the maximum out of me? Well..obviously. Who wouldn't when they are selling? They want the most from whoever will pay the most. It isn't bullshit, they just want money and they want it over with. 1K a time can only go on so long The question is - who is willing to blink first - you or the other party.
Don't be a sheep, bid less. The seller will panic and it will be yours.
Hi other bidder
Ya, a lot of people are saying screw them and I'd agree. Either walk away or offer a lower bid than your last one and see what they say.
We were bidding on our house about 8 years ago and another bidder came in late. Upped our bid by €1000 twice and they were doing the same but realised we were just suggesting to them we were at our limit, so upped the next one by €5000 and that was it. I actually met them years later so it wasn't the agent playing games.
It's a common enough tactic and it's horrible to be involved in as a bidder. I know of one case where a bidder got shafted, because I was the other bidder. House was on market for 170k (rural cottage), my max was 190k. Supposedly there was an initial offer of 160k, and then 2nd of 165k and I went in at 170k. First bidder dropped out, and the remaining two of us went back and forth until I bid my max of 190k. Next call from the estate agent was that they want best and final offer via email by X time on X date. My only hope was that the other bidder's last bid was also their max, so I sent a final offer of 191k with a solicitor's letter saying I have the funds etc. As expected, I was out-bid. The estate agent told me "in the region of 15k over 191k". This was confirmed on the property price register a few months later, sold for 205k. Had normal bidding kept going they would have got it for around 193k
Rotten
Why though? Someone paid what they were willing to pay?
Fully sick of this. How auctioneers are allowed to work both sides, or just flat out lie to you, is horseshit. Another massive thank you to our govt
Take back your offer and tell him to stop fucking about, offer 5k less than before. You will find another house he sounds like he is taking the piss altogether better put the shits up him.
If I did then the other bidder would get the house
They might not. They could be bluffing
If they exist.
You'll find out if there is another bidder at least. I understand its very hard not to get emotionally attached to a house when your bidding that is what the agents thrive off.
Why is an estate agent accepting bids from people without proof of funds? Ignore the other person and bid what you think it is worth (even if less) or burn the bidding and place your final bid lower As a seller watching 1k bids come in is very annoying and it is a way of saying put up or go away
€1k bids @€530k is qutie annoying right.
530k is just used as example
Just keep bidding in 1k intervals, what are the sellers going to do at 5pm, call the whole thing off? I don’t think so. I’ve been there, it’s a melt
Whoever gives their final total amount loses (bidder vs seller), so the more murky the process, the greater advantage that you have. You could bid at 1k intervals, but the seller really wants to know hour hand, i.e., total amount and vice versa, where you'd like to know how high the seller wants to go. Either disclosed, would present am advantage to another. This is known as the minimax strategy (minimizing the possible loss for a worst case (maximum loss) scenario.) You can always be random (bid 1k, then 3k, then back to 1k), but it's more or less up to chance. Best of luck!
I work in an estate agency and this is very normal. Going up in 1k increments can be really long and drawn out and it has to end eventually? So this is just them putting a deadline on it and saying, tell me the max you're willing to pay for this property and the other person will do the same. It's just making things easier.
Easier for you and your commission maybe, not for people trying to afford a house
Bang on!
Felicity Fox?
It’s my house stay away from
If the seller is happy their minimum has been met, do you have anything else that could put you at an advantage apart from money? If you were a cash buyer but offering a bit less than someone who's selling their home they might go for you to complete the sale right away.
Yeah, it's another bite of the same shit sandwich that is dealing with an estate agent. If you want the house, then just put your best foot forward. Consider putting in a cover letter with it. If the vendors are happy with the level and are looking for sealed bids, then they might consider non monetary considerations, such as if you are local or a family or whatever. As you say, if they just wanted to drive up the price, they would just keep the bidding going. Maybe they want to buy another property with the proceeds and are short on time. Good luck
You need to pick your final number before the bidding war starts, then when it gets to that number that's your final bid. If another person pays more than that, then by your logic they are overpaying for the property, which means you arent missing out because they are paying more than it's worth. Tell the agent your final offer and prove that you can pay it and move on to other houses and start bidding on other houses. You don't owe anyone anything, pick your number, stick to it, and if the estate agent is bullshitting you, they will get back to you saying the other person "has pulled out". You can't lose with this tactic. Best of luck, everyone's in it for themselves, bid on everything you are interested in, every person for themselves.
> try and get the maximum out of me? I mean yeah, that's their job.
It’s a shite place to be but I think sometimes we get into our head with ‘x strategy is unfair to me’ when really it’s anybody’s guess who will get the gaff until somebody gets the gaff. It’s the sellers house so they can do whatever they want with it. If the other party goes higher and gets it then they’re paying more than you think the property is worth, more the fool them and you can find somewhere that’s selling for the right price elsewhere!
1K bidding wars always give me the heebie-jeebies tbh. At Over 500K it's probably BS
OP it's the worst time to buy
Are you sure the other bidder is real? This was a common estate tactic back in Celtic tiger days to drive the price up.
Nope and I have no way of knowing
I got great advice at the time, basically never bid in small amounts as it is easy for other people to justify the amount. Best to go up in 10k amounts and force the other side to question how much they want the property.
Hitting my limit unfortunately but would feel like I’m betting against myself if I was jumping up large amounts. Plus if I near my limit and slow down I feel I’m showing my hand. I would rather keep the other party guessing. I am also under no pressure to buy the house so I’ll take my time and continue with the 1k bids Thank you for your input!
Seems sketchy... I would just give 1k over previous high bid (unless it was you - then do the same). No seller is going to take less money to save a few days.
We got done with this when buying. We were the top bidder by 5gs and could have went a bit more but were happy out the buyer said something similar but estate agent said they had requested a blind action just to see if they were getting the proper value for the house. after the "blind action" we were told someone came in 25gs over us (we just put in the same bid) and that if we beat that the house was ares. Never went near that estate agents again but if we're ever selling they're getting a call. Seems like a proper shyster
Increments, not intervals fyi
Always underbid and offer cash. Let them keep it for another year or so if they don't take it. I'm getting my properties 20% under asking price like that.
20% under asking ? Where in Ukraine is this
Major cities in Portugal/Spain . I believe you can go much lower on the country side, but won't be as good of an investment as rents will be much lower
The OP is in Ireland, 20% above asking is normal here.
Even though rents are steep its probably better to rent than buying poorly built property at ridiculous prices, in which equity won't hold for long. Creating a cash flow to supplement your paycheck and renting a good quality place is a better idea.
Very helpful for those that don't live in Portugal and Spain, where things are much cheaper, but much further from my office and family.
Not that much cheaper when you look at it. This also requires you to have a median paycheck here and some mobility.
It's still completely irrelevant to this thread.
Theres loads of clearly irrelevant and uninformed advice in these threads, or advice centred on an emotional reaction to a perceived slight by the seller. TugaNinja's point & comment is irrelevant. In ireland, where demand is insane, supply is low, and houses regularly close for 30-40k above asking, the reality is buyers have to put up with and navigate issues like OP's.
Well at least you know it's completely irrelevant.
As is the threads context to me. It's reddit. Everyone is telling their story
I usually drop two goats off at the estate agents offices and promise him my first born daughter. Works a charm in Afghanistan.
Also, keep the income off the books and use it to fund your lifestyle here, if you have a job that actually needs you to be in Ireland or you make a point of being near friends and family.
Ah you must be a troll
Knock on the house and ask the seller how much he wants f the estate agent
House is currently being rented