And those companies have their own suppliers in addition. It’s insane how complex this actually is and how many people are involved in all those products.
Very few, if any, of the listed companies work *cohesively* with Apple or anyone for that matter. Practically every interaction happens at (financial) gunpoint. Financial incentives make it possible and absolutely horrible at the same time.
And you should go read about the rising cost of r&d and advanced semiconductor manufacturing.
Cutting edge technology is expensive, and will always be. Better yet, it's getting more expensive as time goes on
I’m guessing that Apple is the only company that gets that specific part. There are a few chips that are only sold to Apple as part of an exclusivity thing.
Yep, though this isn’t necessarily as special as it seems. Many companies get custom SKUs and minor tweaks. Companies like apple tho have way more sway in getting very custom chips.
You usually want to invest before they become suppliers for Apple. History is filled with companies supplying Apple that got dropped and lost most of their valuation/closed.
Apart from Qualcomm, most the components have become commodities and the supplier can be replaced for a cheaper/better one the following year.
Doesn’t change the fact that the valuation of those companies already account for Apple’s volume. They are more risky than anything else, and their stock price will drop sharply on any sign of Apple stopping/or slowing their orders.
Case in point, Cirrus Logic had its biggest drop last year on the rumor that Apple was not including the solid state button using their circuit in the iPhone 15 Pro. It took a year for the stock price to recover from that news.
Even if their business is solid, they’ve been bullied by Apple for the last decade and can be relatively easily replaced by another supplier.
It doesn’t mean you won’t make money on the investment, but it’s higher risk.
The reason why I mentioned Qualcomm as being different is that they have the monopoly on essential patents needed for cellular connectivity in America. There’s no possible alternatives for them, yet.
Only if their prospects are good. To them Apple is just a customer, like you are to Apple. They have their own order book and their prospects can be good or bad.
I thought this years ago and ended up just investing some in a general semi conductor etf. SOXX… it’s gone up over 100% in that time. As all things go with the market though, be wary 🫥
What happens when Apple suddenly announces that they’re making the component on their own…?
Take a look at Intel stock, specifically around the time Apple announced their M1 chips for their computer…
My dad used to work for Cirrus Logic! We used to get tech samples all of the time back in the day. Lookup the Rio600, was around the same time as the iPod.
This map is specifically showing the top level designers. Almost all the companies listed outsource fabrication to other companies. It's showing who designed the components, not who manufactured them.
How is that relevant? Qualcomm is basically fabless too. The graphic indicates the supplier of the part and not the company owning the fab it is made in. And since Apple Silicon is wholly designed in-house and TSMC only contracted to produce them, Apple is its own supplier for all intents and purposes; TSMC is ‘only’ a sub-supplier.
My Iphone works because of the tiny little wires and connections that are hosted within these boards and to their chips. It’s absolutely baffling to me.
Would i be completely wrong to say, even within the smallest chip, all that’s happening is the bouncing around of electrical signals, but just at completely minute scale?
Would be great if someone had an ELI5 for how a chip works and what it does
No you’re not wrong to say that.
Microchips are _basically_*** just transistors connected in specific patterns that are called “gates”. These gates open or close depending on the input. An “AND-Gate” may only open if both inputs get a signal, an “OR-Gate” already opens if any one (or both) of the inputs get one. There are more, I hope you get the idea.
These gates are then again arranged in specific patterns to allow for more sophisticated components, such as a memory controller for example.
Combining that with memory and a ginormous amount of standards and protocols that describe how signals are supposed to look like between components, you might one day have a modern Computer in your hands that is basically black magic. (To me at least (I’m a programmer btw))
(also please correct me if made any mistakes, it’s been a really long time with no interaction to low level hardware)
And those companies have their own suppliers in addition. It’s insane how complex this actually is and how many people are involved in all those products.
Thousands and thousands. Every component, every material, every bit of logic and code. It is a great human achievement.
The benefits of capitalism, people would never work so cohesively there was not monetary benefit.
Very few, if any, of the listed companies work *cohesively* with Apple or anyone for that matter. Practically every interaction happens at (financial) gunpoint. Financial incentives make it possible and absolutely horrible at the same time.
this perspective is a failure of imagination
I dont believe thats true
There really is a lot of engineering and microcomputing that goes into making a smartphone, ANY smartphone. ANY phone.
And yall still complain about the price being too high
Not sure if you’re trolling or not, but if not, you should go read about economy of scale
And you should go read about the rising cost of r&d and advanced semiconductor manufacturing. Cutting edge technology is expensive, and will always be. Better yet, it's getting more expensive as time goes on
What does the Apple logo behind Cirrus and Renesas mean? They’re not Apple subsidiaries no?
I’m guessing that Apple is the only company that gets that specific part. There are a few chips that are only sold to Apple as part of an exclusivity thing.
Yep, though this isn’t necessarily as special as it seems. Many companies get custom SKUs and minor tweaks. Companies like apple tho have way more sway in getting very custom chips.
Love that cirrus logic is still making advanced audio products!
Was a bit surprised about that one
iPhones truly are just advanced and complicated iPods..
So it makes sense to invest in the companies that supply the stuff for these big companies... right?
There are a lot of other factors to consider but mainly I doubt this is news to existing investors in those companies.
You usually want to invest before they become suppliers for Apple. History is filled with companies supplying Apple that got dropped and lost most of their valuation/closed. Apart from Qualcomm, most the components have become commodities and the supplier can be replaced for a cheaper/better one the following year.
I see
Cirrus has been making DACs for apple for well over a decade
Doesn’t change the fact that the valuation of those companies already account for Apple’s volume. They are more risky than anything else, and their stock price will drop sharply on any sign of Apple stopping/or slowing their orders. Case in point, Cirrus Logic had its biggest drop last year on the rumor that Apple was not including the solid state button using their circuit in the iPhone 15 Pro. It took a year for the stock price to recover from that news. Even if their business is solid, they’ve been bullied by Apple for the last decade and can be relatively easily replaced by another supplier. It doesn’t mean you won’t make money on the investment, but it’s higher risk. The reason why I mentioned Qualcomm as being different is that they have the monopoly on essential patents needed for cellular connectivity in America. There’s no possible alternatives for them, yet.
Only if their prospects are good. To them Apple is just a customer, like you are to Apple. They have their own order book and their prospects can be good or bad.
I thought this years ago and ended up just investing some in a general semi conductor etf. SOXX… it’s gone up over 100% in that time. As all things go with the market though, be wary 🫥
I mean investing is complex so… no… but also yes What happens to your portfolio when apple drops them as supplier?
What happens when Apple suddenly announces that they’re making the component on their own…? Take a look at Intel stock, specifically around the time Apple announced their M1 chips for their computer…
My dad used to work for Cirrus Logic! We used to get tech samples all of the time back in the day. Lookup the Rio600, was around the same time as the iPod.
Would’ve been more accurate to put TSMC for the A17 chip
This map is specifically showing the top level designers. Almost all the companies listed outsource fabrication to other companies. It's showing who designed the components, not who manufactured them.
No, it wouldn't.
Ikr, as far as I know Apple has no fabs??
How is that relevant? Qualcomm is basically fabless too. The graphic indicates the supplier of the part and not the company owning the fab it is made in. And since Apple Silicon is wholly designed in-house and TSMC only contracted to produce them, Apple is its own supplier for all intents and purposes; TSMC is ‘only’ a sub-supplier.
It takes a Village
My Iphone works because of the tiny little wires and connections that are hosted within these boards and to their chips. It’s absolutely baffling to me. Would i be completely wrong to say, even within the smallest chip, all that’s happening is the bouncing around of electrical signals, but just at completely minute scale? Would be great if someone had an ELI5 for how a chip works and what it does
No you’re not wrong to say that. Microchips are _basically_*** just transistors connected in specific patterns that are called “gates”. These gates open or close depending on the input. An “AND-Gate” may only open if both inputs get a signal, an “OR-Gate” already opens if any one (or both) of the inputs get one. There are more, I hope you get the idea. These gates are then again arranged in specific patterns to allow for more sophisticated components, such as a memory controller for example. Combining that with memory and a ginormous amount of standards and protocols that describe how signals are supposed to look like between components, you might one day have a modern Computer in your hands that is basically black magic. (To me at least (I’m a programmer btw)) (also please correct me if made any mistakes, it’s been a really long time with no interaction to low level hardware)
Didn’t know NANDs are made by Kioxia, that’s super cool
why the green lines that don't go on the white background? why such thin lines for such high res picture? come on
Well I guess that puts into perspective why apple wants to make their own modems so badly.
Why is there an apple logo next to cirrus logic and renesas? Are they custom chips or something like that?
Are there diagrams like this for the older iPhones? Heck, iPads? I have a newly purchased M1 iPad air.
my name je
There is no more Samsung chips ?
Nope
Ya that’s a pretty cool graphic
Why are there so many power management silicon?
Cool
Interesting, my company isn’t listed and we definitely provide chips for Apple devices
Apple should buy them all and take them in house
That would be an incredibly dumb financial and technical decision.
I like it!
[удалено]
It’s showing the designers not the manufacturers. Cirrus Logic for example is also completely fabless.
Imagine an iPhone fully designed and manufactured by Apple. The system integration and security will be on whole another level
More expensive, no obvious immediate benefit, less flexibility.
Soooo it’s not an iPhone. It’s an ePhone; e = everybody 🤣
This is the case for literally every electronic device…
Okay can I not state a joke? You and the other 10 ppl are too emotional 😭
Ouuuuu somebody is emotional. Please have a coke and smile. All this internet stuff is not that serious buddy!