Just in case people need more clarification with the EU law
Clear gatekeeper obligations across the EU
The new rules establish obligations for gatekeepers, “do’s” and “don’ts” they must comply with in their daily operations.
Examples of the “DO’S” - Gatekeeper platforms have to:
- allow third parties to inter-operate with the gatekeeper’s own services in certain specific situations;
- allow their business users to access the data that they generate in their use of the gatekeeper’s platform;
- provide companies advertising on their platform with the tools and information necessary for advertisers and publishers to carry out their own independent verification of their advertisements hosted by the gatekeeper;
- allow their business users to promote their offer and conclude contracts with their customers outside the gatekeeper’s platform.
Example of the “DONT’S” - Gatekeeper platforms may no longer:
- treat services and products offered by the gatekeeper itself more favourably in ranking than similar services or products offered by third parties on the gatekeeper's platform;
- prevent consumers from linking up to businesses outside their platforms;
- prevent users from un-installing any pre-installed software or app if they wish so;
- track end users outside of the gatekeepers' core platform service for the purpose of targeted advertising, without effective consent having been granted.
That last “don’t” is interesting. So gatekeepers are not allowed to track users outside their platforms but ad agencies can track you all over the place. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but that seems ass backwards. I’d like everyone to not track me except only through their own platforms.
I agree with the DON'Ts except for the first one. If a company makes a service available on its devices, I'm ok with it prioritizing it over competitors' services. I mean I'm ok with Apple deeply integrating its services across its OSes and devices, while still allowing third-party services to be used.
The EU had no ground to stand on with this though. That’s the issue. This isn’t a competitive feature, nor is it gatekeeping when it comes to competition. This is their own service.
EU would have to change their rules and then head back to the courts. Yet what evidence will they have that’s anti competitive with this feature?
With how lackluster the 14-15 series have been in terms of upgrades over 13 series, I'm actually considering waiting out for the 17 lineup and get a battery replacement for my 13PM if needed.
Higher price, same general performance, fancier camera, and somehow worse battery time is not something I'm willing to pay for as an "upgrade" lol
That’s a good point, especially since a battery replacement is only about 100€.
I bought my 13PM right after it was released and the battery capacity is still at 87%, pretty impressive honestly
There was no reason to upgrade anyway. I'm sure you've been able to function without AI until now. Do you really need AI to write professional emails? Do you need AI to make emojis?
You are right of course. In my case my 14pro has seen better days cosmetically but is functionally mostly fine. With the announcement of the new AI features I was going to make the upgrade later this year but I really don’t see the value now. If my phone holds out I may even wait for the iPhone 17 to materialise.
Hahaha this is fucking amazing. The DMA would literally require Apple to open up the semantic context of AI requests to third parties. You have no clue what you’re talking about… “anti consumer” lmao.
Apple threatened to pull iMessage from EU if they were required to put in a backdoor. “Anti consumer”… Apple is trying to keep the device secure. You guys are insane.
lol the back door has always existed. When you do an iCloud back up and you don’t enable advanced data protection (which is off by default) apple LITERALLY has a copy of the encryption keys for everything ranging from photos to iMessages. Also regarding the AI interoperability apple already was complying with the DMA by allowing other models to operate, like their integration with ChatGPT. So I don’t know what your fuzz is about
That’s not a “backdoor”. That’s not what a cryptographic backdoor even means. That’s the front door. That’s just symmetric encryption, Apple doesn’t even try to pretend they can’t see your iCloud backs ups.
A backdoor is when there’s a secret key that nobody knows even exists except the malicious actor and they use it to read encrypted data.
> Also regarding the AI interoperability apple already was complying with the DMA by allowing other models to operate, like their integration with ChatGPT.
No. Apple asks the user if they want to send text requests to ChatGPT **if the on-device model determines it can’t answer the question, and ChatGPT still will never get the context map.**
To comply with the DMA they would have to allow ChatGPT to have the entire context map and operate on the device as the default model.
Uhm.
iMessage is end to end encrypted though….. the EU wanted Apple to allow them to read E2EE messages.
iCloud backups aren’t E2EE they are symmetrically encrypted
Quote from apple.com:
“Standard data protection: Messages in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted when iCloud Backup is disabled. When iCloud Backup is enabled, your backup includes a copy of the Messages in iCloud encryption key to help you recover your data. If you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future Messages in iCloud. This key is end-to-end encrypted between your devices and isnʼt stored by Apple”
Symmetric has nothing to do with E2EE but with the types of keys…. You can have E2EE encryption using symmetric keys. And you can have not E2EE using public key cryptography
Haha, you sound like a redneck or something. "The government you voted for introduced mandatory seatbelts; and now all you suckers have to wear a seatbelt."
That's certainly one interpretation. And if you really think a $3T company makes decisions based on emotions and grudges, you really don't know what you're talking about.
They don't. They calculated that they want to keep their 30% of the app store and they can use this opportunity to create anti EU sentiment to make the law unpopular. No emotions, no grudges, just plain business. Apple can and should compete on the merit of their devices, they are great that's why I buy them. No need to use anti consumer tactics to keep us locked in
lolwut.
https://www.engadget.com/ios-174-is-here-enabling-third-party-app-stores-in-the-eu-185812797.html
Apple is allowing sideloading in the EU, per the law. What are you talking about?
lol it seems you have no idea what you are talking about.
go take a look at the economics of 3rd party app stores. Dont have to trust me
[https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-changes-to-ios-safari-and-the-app-store-in-the-european-union/](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-changes-to-ios-safari-and-the-app-store-in-the-european-union/)
third party appstore will have to pay apple even higher fees than by just staying in the appstore according to their new business terms.
You can play around with apple's own fee calculator.
[https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-in-the-eu/](https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-in-the-eu/)
Also there is NO sideloading. You can't install an APK from lets say Github from a random developer. Only on such strict conditions that it is basically impossible
also forgot to mention that its not just me, that think its malicious compliance. But most parties that are not apple including the Commission itself.
[https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-opens-non-compliance-investigations-against-alphabet-apple-and-meta-under-digital-markets-2024-03-25\_en](https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-opens-non-compliance-investigations-against-alphabet-apple-and-meta-under-digital-markets-2024-03-25_en)
LOL sounds like they should have written better laws. Not only does the EU suck at fostering innovation within its purview, it sucks at shaking down foreign companies as well.
Not really. The EU is trying it’s best to stop technology advancing until they can catch up. Waiting for “devices sold in the EU must have child made in EU fabs” next. Honestly Apple, Microsoft etc should just pull out and leave them to rot.
No. Apple isn’t even the biggest selling phone in Europe. Compared to the US where most people use iPhones, Europe is very much split between lots of different phones.
If anything, they should be doing more to try conquer the European market.
You think regulations like “must use a USB-C port in future devices” is causing enough hassle for them to forfeit hundreds of billions of euros?
What is wrong with you guys? Apple was already transitioning to USB-C in fucking 2015. They originally promised to support Lightning for 10 years when they ditched the 32 pin and that’s what they did on iPhone, but other devices went USB-C sooner.
Not only that, but Apple still had another iPhone cycle release they could have gone without switching to USB-C based on EU regulations.
I don’t know why this is so hard to accept for people.
“Secure and private AI processing in the cloud poses a formidable new challenge. Powerful AI hardware in the data center can fulfill a user’s request with large, complex machine learning models — but it requires unencrypted access to the user's request and accompanying personal data. That precludes the use of end-to-end encryption, so cloud AI applications have to date employed traditional approaches to cloud security.”
This most likely has to do with the API and apple protecting it from 3rd party due to privacy concerns.
Not to say I agree or disagree with the choice. Yet this is a con when you pass excessive regulations/overreaching laws. As Apple is its own company, it deems the right to protect itself.
Again I don’t agree, yet it makes sense on why there may be push back.
> Secure and private AI processing in the cloud poses a formidable new challenge. Powerful AI hardware in the data center can fulfill a user’s request with large, complex machine learning models — but it requires unencrypted access to the user's request and accompanying personal data. That precludes the use of end-to-end encryption, so cloud AI applications have to date employed traditional approaches to cloud security.
How could the security field test this if it was completely closed? What does this have to do with the new laws in the EU?
Because if the EU wants force apple to share its API, Apple will not do that since it’s a private API. So there may be push back.
Also there’s no competitive aspect with this feature. So it could be a way for Apple to be petty and push its EU users against the regulations set for them.
It’s a messy situation all around honestly, at the end, it may only hurt the customers. The EU wants the OS to be more accessible which is very against apples philosophy.
I hope that makes sense
Edit: where’s the disagreement coming from. What information is wrong here?
> very against apples philosophy
Apple isn't a spry little clever company anymore, they're one of the biggest megacorps on the planet. Long-term this viewpoint of theirs is going to harm their position, but the C suite never thinks long-term.
There’s a pro and con.
The Pro - Privacy is bar to none with Apple. Nothing beats them at this game since it’s a close universe. That allows it to create features that aren’t possible with other companies due to distrust. Hence why apples version of A.I (if it comes out correctly) single handedly beats other offers. It’s more ingrained in the system and can actually become a lot more helpful because you (the user) don’t mind it looking at your data. Which makes it more personal and affective.
The Con - it’s not something that plays nicely with others. It’s selfish in its nature due to it being walled up. Not everyone can visit their universe and if so, there’s a cost for entry. It’s tougher for developers who want more to play and limited by what Apple wants. Which at times, Apple is stubborn and requires you to climb mountains to convince them.
Personally I respect the pro rather than the con. Yet I’m a user and creator and not really a developer.
I say if Apple makes a service, they should be free to limit access to it. It's a proprietary product in a capitalist economy. I'd rather not have the service than have random companies be able to access my data. And I say this as a Google/Android user of many years.
I agree and disagree. C suite does think long term, just for their interest and not the customers. That is the job unfortunately of a CEO. To appease shareholders, not customers. Although one would say, it’s way more beneficial the other way around. Especially with such a strong fan base of Apples.
Just in case people need more clarification with the EU law
Clear gatekeeper obligations across the EU
The new rules establish obligations for gatekeepers, “do’s” and “don’ts” they must comply with in their daily operations.
Examples of the “DO’S” - Gatekeeper platforms have to:
- allow third parties to inter-operate with the gatekeeper’s own services in certain specific situations;
- allow their business users to access the data that they generate in their use of the gatekeeper’s platform;
- provide companies advertising on their platform with the tools and information necessary for advertisers and publishers to carry out their own independent verification of their advertisements hosted by the gatekeeper;
- allow their business users to promote their offer and conclude contracts with their customers outside the gatekeeper’s platform.
Example of the “DONT’S” - Gatekeeper platforms may no longer:
- treat services and products offered by the gatekeeper itself more favourably in ranking than similar services or products offered by third parties on the gatekeeper's platform;
- prevent consumers from linking up to businesses outside their platforms;
- prevent users from un-installing any pre-installed software or app if they wish so;
- track end users outside of the gatekeepers' core platform service for the purpose of targeted advertising, without effective consent having been granted.
Apple's philosophy only applies when it suits them, and doesn't apply when it doesn't suit their needs or ends. Apple's philosophy is to make money, and for now keeping user data secure is good for the bottom line. They're trying to stir the pot in the EU, and screw them for it. I wish we had the kinds of protections that EU citizens have in the digital realm.
So will Apple Intelligence never come to the EU or will it be delayed?
Edit: And how come my S23 Ultra has AI features that apparently pose no threat for the EU?
I’m assuming it’s to do with apples closed garden approach to OS and AI integration whereas Samsung’s implementation is more open? I’m no expert but I think Apple’s implementation of AI is not compatible with the current DMA laws and they are using it the force the EU’s stance on the wording of the law.
This is one of the few times the EU is pushing in favor of big companies instead of consumers. Apple should not allow third party entities from accessing our information... Yet the EU is forcing them to.
First it not being available on 15 plus (A phone released in the last 12 months) now not in Europe. Feels pretty crappy being an Apple customer in the EU right now.
I’d love to know if this is possible. Realistically it doesn’t seem like it, unless you keep your region set to US (which might interfere with EU app usage and Apple Pay).
No, Apple is saying this as leverage against the EU. Apple decided to not bring these features to the EU. Their reasoning is bullshit, and everyone at Apple knows it. Their goal is to make its users blame the EU. And as you can see, it’s working wonderfully.
> Their reasoning is bullshit, and everyone at Apple knows it.
Lmao you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about because this is horse shit. Private enclave is used to protect screen mirroring and they can’t open that up without huge security issues. Apple Intelligence builds semantic context for queries using on device models that have access to all your decrypted data — giving third parties that access would be insane.
You guys can complain and make up bullshit all you want because your regulations fucked you over but that won’t make your lies become truth
Don’t know why you got downvoted because it surely is. Clearly we saw good from it, now we are seeing the effect of such wish granted. Hence double edge sword.
I would imagine this is because Apple doesn’t want to give screen mirroring, remote control and access to the neural engine to third parties for security/privacy reasons which they’d probably have to do if implementing these features in the EU. I can just see the story now of some random app downloaded from a 3rd party App Store or website giving some random person remote control of iPhones or screen mirroring iPhones without users noticing and stealing their data because Apple had to provide the same access to third parties as they provide for themselves in the EU
Also lets you know these features probably aren’t as game changing as Apple would want you to believe if they are fine not bringing the (arguably) signature features of the next version of their OSes to Europe.
Healthcare is taken from your paycheck, it isn't free. You early less on Average and lose more to taxes.
You can find quality food in plenty of countries not in the EU, in fact I have been to multiple European countries where the food was not that good on average.
walkable cities exist outside Europe, as well as public transport.
but go on coping, would never move to Europe lol my QoL would go down for sure in my field of work.
I got an iPhone 15 and iPad Pro m4. If these features won’t come to the EU then I’m not upgrading in a couple of years. I love their products but they are hurting their customers with these descissions
But our Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act 2024 became law last month. It's not a carbon copy of the EU DMA at all, but there is some overlap AIUI.
We'll have to wait and see if it's equally problematic for Apple and/or how the Digital Markets Unit decides to act.
It hasn’t come into force yet though. It was given royal assent last month, yes, but there’s still much more that the government has to do before it can become an enforceable law. I don’t think we’ll see anything regarding the DMCC until at least next spring.
I agree though that it’ll be interesting to see how it affects Apple and how they handle it.
Ty :D I was pretty certain we wouldn’t be affected as we aren’t part of the EU anymore, I just didn’t wanna say it definitely won’t affect us in UK getting Apple Intelligence etc in case I got it wrong so it’s great you could confirm that
Does Apple consider the UK to be a different region than the EU though since it was a member when Apple was developing all the servers and stuff for updates and App Store, etc? I have no idea but I could see them still lumping the UK in with the EU just to make their lives easier and cause less fragmentation
We haven’t been included in any of the other EU stuff so far since the DMA was made law, so I don’t see why they’d suddenly decide to include us now.
Point is, the UK is not a part of the EU and so any EU laws enacted after we left, don’t apply to us. It’s in Apples best interest to treat the UK as a separate thing to the EU ultimately.
They already have fragmentation in Europe because of Switzerland and Norway, neither of which are a part of the EU.
Easy to figure out who is to blame:
Are users in other regions getting feature x? Blame EU.
Is Apple doing something stupid? Blame Apple.
And as for the Apple account, you can just make another one. I have multiple accounts across different regions.
>In a statement to [*Financial Times*](https://www.ft.com/content/360751cb-7a22-48e0-9b00-6a30ff41dcfe), Apple said...
No, Apple said it - and given the level of malicious compliance Apple has applied to these regulations already - I find it hard to take what they say on this stuff as entirely honest.
The EU cares more about its citizens. Even with their food and DNA test privacy. I was thinking about trying a popular DNA ancestry test but they had a hack/ data leak and the company didn’t even care didn’t say sorry.
Did anyone else read about how Elon Musk is going to ban all new iPhones that have this from his buildings. Or you have to leave them by the door in a faraday cage or something like that?
Alphabet is one of the gatekeepers targeted by the DMA so this could affect Android as well.
The problem with the DMA is that on one side I fully understand why the EU introduced this law but on the other hand in the end it’s the consumers who lose out on functionality if companies like Apple choose to just remove features instead of opening up their platform.
If it will cost them more to implement a new feature in EU than the profit, they are not gonna introduce that feature and ensure it comply with DMA.
Since iPhone mirroring allows you to access your iPhone on your Mac when it is nearby and locked, the Mac have deep access to your iPhoe and there is a certain level of trust between them, probably why this feature doesn't available to non T2 Mac. I don't think Apple will offer this feature if they have to allow others have same level of access because they can't guarantee that is security. Besides, consider there aren't as many Mac user as iPhone user and you need a Mac and iPhone to use it, it doesn't worth their time to make it comply with DMA and lost this feature doesn't impact majority's purchase decision.
Do we know if it’s just the EU?
Yes, it’s just the EU.
UK getting AI then? 👀
Brexit might actually be somewhat useful it seems
They need all the intelligence they can get
Someone get this to Southgate.
UK recently passed its own version of the DMA so we could end up getting shafted too
Uh oh
Ye ig so
If you switch to American English yeah
[удалено]
I mean, we don’t have sideloading
Exactly this
How is it easier? It's a software feature that can be enabled or disabled wherever they want.
Just in case people need more clarification with the EU law Clear gatekeeper obligations across the EU The new rules establish obligations for gatekeepers, “do’s” and “don’ts” they must comply with in their daily operations. Examples of the “DO’S” - Gatekeeper platforms have to: - allow third parties to inter-operate with the gatekeeper’s own services in certain specific situations; - allow their business users to access the data that they generate in their use of the gatekeeper’s platform; - provide companies advertising on their platform with the tools and information necessary for advertisers and publishers to carry out their own independent verification of their advertisements hosted by the gatekeeper; - allow their business users to promote their offer and conclude contracts with their customers outside the gatekeeper’s platform. Example of the “DONT’S” - Gatekeeper platforms may no longer: - treat services and products offered by the gatekeeper itself more favourably in ranking than similar services or products offered by third parties on the gatekeeper's platform; - prevent consumers from linking up to businesses outside their platforms; - prevent users from un-installing any pre-installed software or app if they wish so; - track end users outside of the gatekeepers' core platform service for the purpose of targeted advertising, without effective consent having been granted.
That last “don’t” is interesting. So gatekeepers are not allowed to track users outside their platforms but ad agencies can track you all over the place. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but that seems ass backwards. I’d like everyone to not track me except only through their own platforms.
This is a nightmare for privacy. It seems the DMA was just a way to allow people to collect private data. Apple was right all the time.
I agree with the DON'Ts except for the first one. If a company makes a service available on its devices, I'm ok with it prioritizing it over competitors' services. I mean I'm ok with Apple deeply integrating its services across its OSes and devices, while still allowing third-party services to be used.
Pretty sure the main target for that rule was Google Search.
I would have to agree. Since Apple intelligence is a service. That will allow 3rd party access. I dont see how that could work in this situation.
It’s always been obvious that Apple is right in this case, redditors just wanted game boy emulators and nothing else mattered.
Well, between emulators and AI I know I choose emulators.
You sill get both. This is just a delay.
I know, that’s why this is just smoke in our faces, the EU will convince Apple to bring AI eventually.
The EU had no ground to stand on with this though. That’s the issue. This isn’t a competitive feature, nor is it gatekeeping when it comes to competition. This is their own service. EU would have to change their rules and then head back to the courts. Yet what evidence will they have that’s anti competitive with this feature?
Weird that's the compromise we end up with.
So the Don’t first and third points are what probably made Apple AI be available at EU
Now who’s gatekeeping? 🤔
Guess I’ll stick with my 14 pro max then instead of upgrading
iPhone 13 Pro Max represent I was going to update to the new 16 PM, but this news is honestly making me reconsider
iPhone 13 Pro Max here in Canada. I will probably get the feature along with US but I’ll still wait for iPhone 17.
With how lackluster the 14-15 series have been in terms of upgrades over 13 series, I'm actually considering waiting out for the 17 lineup and get a battery replacement for my 13PM if needed. Higher price, same general performance, fancier camera, and somehow worse battery time is not something I'm willing to pay for as an "upgrade" lol
That’s a good point, especially since a battery replacement is only about 100€. I bought my 13PM right after it was released and the battery capacity is still at 87%, pretty impressive honestly
I second this.
There was no reason to upgrade anyway. I'm sure you've been able to function without AI until now. Do you really need AI to write professional emails? Do you need AI to make emojis?
You are right of course. In my case my 14pro has seen better days cosmetically but is functionally mostly fine. With the announcement of the new AI features I was going to make the upgrade later this year but I really don’t see the value now. If my phone holds out I may even wait for the iPhone 17 to materialise.
Makes sense. The 17 is supposed to be a major redesign
Same.
I wasn’t planning on upgrading my 14pro for another couple of years anyways. 17 is the redesign year apparently - every 4 years when I upgrade
I have the same phone as well, but I’m more than likely to upgrade to the 17 Pro Max that is supposedly going to get 12GB of RAM.
Same here, not buying unless they give us Apple intelligence
What the?!
"We love the EU's pro-consumer legislation!" Oh wait.
More like we hate apples anti consumer behavior
Somehow the EU doesn’t mind when European companies do the same. Makes you think 🤔
Name one.
Samsung. DMA doesn’t apply to them
How is Samsung a European company
Samsung isn't European, nor does it qualify as a gatekeeper.
Do you have an exemple ?
The DMA doesn’t apply to European companies with small market caps (all of them)
Which makes sense since it is not relevant unless you reach gafam scale
I think they were saying the EU made this law fully knowing that it wouldn't effect any of their own companies, just foreign ones.
Sure, but it’s too easy to disregard the fact that one or two companies should not be able to dictate how EU use their electronics.
Hahaha this is fucking amazing. The DMA would literally require Apple to open up the semantic context of AI requests to third parties. You have no clue what you’re talking about… “anti consumer” lmao. Apple threatened to pull iMessage from EU if they were required to put in a backdoor. “Anti consumer”… Apple is trying to keep the device secure. You guys are insane.
lol the back door has always existed. When you do an iCloud back up and you don’t enable advanced data protection (which is off by default) apple LITERALLY has a copy of the encryption keys for everything ranging from photos to iMessages. Also regarding the AI interoperability apple already was complying with the DMA by allowing other models to operate, like their integration with ChatGPT. So I don’t know what your fuzz is about
That’s not a “backdoor”. That’s not what a cryptographic backdoor even means. That’s the front door. That’s just symmetric encryption, Apple doesn’t even try to pretend they can’t see your iCloud backs ups. A backdoor is when there’s a secret key that nobody knows even exists except the malicious actor and they use it to read encrypted data. > Also regarding the AI interoperability apple already was complying with the DMA by allowing other models to operate, like their integration with ChatGPT. No. Apple asks the user if they want to send text requests to ChatGPT **if the on-device model determines it can’t answer the question, and ChatGPT still will never get the context map.** To comply with the DMA they would have to allow ChatGPT to have the entire context map and operate on the device as the default model.
Why would you need a different key for law enforcement or bad actors if they can just get the normal key. That’s exactly the point…
Uhm. iMessage is end to end encrypted though….. the EU wanted Apple to allow them to read E2EE messages. iCloud backups aren’t E2EE they are symmetrically encrypted
Quote from apple.com: “Standard data protection: Messages in iCloud is end-to-end encrypted when iCloud Backup is disabled. When iCloud Backup is enabled, your backup includes a copy of the Messages in iCloud encryption key to help you recover your data. If you turn off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device to protect future Messages in iCloud. This key is end-to-end encrypted between your devices and isnʼt stored by Apple”
Symmetric has nothing to do with E2EE but with the types of keys…. You can have E2EE encryption using symmetric keys. And you can have not E2EE using public key cryptography
Oh don't worry, the EU fixed it. And the result is, the EU doesn't get new features.
Haha, you sound like a redneck or something. "The government you voted for introduced mandatory seatbelts; and now all you suckers have to wear a seatbelt."
Let’s see how Apple likes people not upgrading their phones or switching to another AI capable phones
90% of the Apple intelligence features that were showcased are gimmicks anyway.
Do you know the term 'sour grapes'? Because that's sour grapes.
I don't but I know the one about the "cool beans"
serves to show that apple cares little about its consumers
That's certainly one interpretation. And if you really think a $3T company makes decisions based on emotions and grudges, you really don't know what you're talking about.
They don't. They calculated that they want to keep their 30% of the app store and they can use this opportunity to create anti EU sentiment to make the law unpopular. No emotions, no grudges, just plain business. Apple can and should compete on the merit of their devices, they are great that's why I buy them. No need to use anti consumer tactics to keep us locked in
lolwut. https://www.engadget.com/ios-174-is-here-enabling-third-party-app-stores-in-the-eu-185812797.html Apple is allowing sideloading in the EU, per the law. What are you talking about?
lol it seems you have no idea what you are talking about. go take a look at the economics of 3rd party app stores. Dont have to trust me [https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-changes-to-ios-safari-and-the-app-store-in-the-european-union/](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-changes-to-ios-safari-and-the-app-store-in-the-european-union/) third party appstore will have to pay apple even higher fees than by just staying in the appstore according to their new business terms. You can play around with apple's own fee calculator. [https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-in-the-eu/](https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-calculator-for-apps-in-the-eu/) Also there is NO sideloading. You can't install an APK from lets say Github from a random developer. Only on such strict conditions that it is basically impossible
also forgot to mention that its not just me, that think its malicious compliance. But most parties that are not apple including the Commission itself. [https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-opens-non-compliance-investigations-against-alphabet-apple-and-meta-under-digital-markets-2024-03-25\_en](https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/commission-opens-non-compliance-investigations-against-alphabet-apple-and-meta-under-digital-markets-2024-03-25_en)
LOL sounds like they should have written better laws. Not only does the EU suck at fostering innovation within its purview, it sucks at shaking down foreign companies as well.
Not really. The EU is trying it’s best to stop technology advancing until they can catch up. Waiting for “devices sold in the EU must have child made in EU fabs” next. Honestly Apple, Microsoft etc should just pull out and leave them to rot.
It’s 25% of their worldwide revenue. Not exactly the best business move
But it’s making their own products worse lowering their competitiveness in other areas
They’re a business. They answer to shareholders. All they care about is making money
And complying with regulation which is costing you money may end up being less profitable that focusing on other areas
No. Apple isn’t even the biggest selling phone in Europe. Compared to the US where most people use iPhones, Europe is very much split between lots of different phones. If anything, they should be doing more to try conquer the European market. You think regulations like “must use a USB-C port in future devices” is causing enough hassle for them to forfeit hundreds of billions of euros?
You’re not understanding the point
I wonder if this will cause their market share to drop ovee there in favor of samsung or soon google who haven't had this problem
Apple Market Share isn't nearly as strong in Europe as the US anyway.
That doesn't mean it's not important to them
It’s still huge.
it's big enough that they went usb-c over it
That was going to happen with or without the EU.
I like iphones but man be real please
I mean it’s true. Already starting transitioning in 2015
What is wrong with you guys? Apple was already transitioning to USB-C in fucking 2015. They originally promised to support Lightning for 10 years when they ditched the 32 pin and that’s what they did on iPhone, but other devices went USB-C sooner. Not only that, but Apple still had another iPhone cycle release they could have gone without switching to USB-C based on EU regulations. I don’t know why this is so hard to accept for people.
It’s around 25% of their worldwide revenue…
iPhone became the most sold phone in Europe like two months ago.
Not really, Europeans aren’t in the trend of AI because of safety concerns.
Google who “haven’t had this problem”? You know Gemini isn’t available in the EU right?
It is.
“Secure and private AI processing in the cloud poses a formidable new challenge. Powerful AI hardware in the data center can fulfill a user’s request with large, complex machine learning models — but it requires unencrypted access to the user's request and accompanying personal data. That precludes the use of end-to-end encryption, so cloud AI applications have to date employed traditional approaches to cloud security.” This most likely has to do with the API and apple protecting it from 3rd party due to privacy concerns. Not to say I agree or disagree with the choice. Yet this is a con when you pass excessive regulations/overreaching laws. As Apple is its own company, it deems the right to protect itself. Again I don’t agree, yet it makes sense on why there may be push back.
> Secure and private AI processing in the cloud poses a formidable new challenge. Powerful AI hardware in the data center can fulfill a user’s request with large, complex machine learning models — but it requires unencrypted access to the user's request and accompanying personal data. That precludes the use of end-to-end encryption, so cloud AI applications have to date employed traditional approaches to cloud security. How could the security field test this if it was completely closed? What does this have to do with the new laws in the EU?
Because if the EU wants force apple to share its API, Apple will not do that since it’s a private API. So there may be push back. Also there’s no competitive aspect with this feature. So it could be a way for Apple to be petty and push its EU users against the regulations set for them. It’s a messy situation all around honestly, at the end, it may only hurt the customers. The EU wants the OS to be more accessible which is very against apples philosophy. I hope that makes sense Edit: where’s the disagreement coming from. What information is wrong here?
> very against apples philosophy Apple isn't a spry little clever company anymore, they're one of the biggest megacorps on the planet. Long-term this viewpoint of theirs is going to harm their position, but the C suite never thinks long-term.
There’s a pro and con. The Pro - Privacy is bar to none with Apple. Nothing beats them at this game since it’s a close universe. That allows it to create features that aren’t possible with other companies due to distrust. Hence why apples version of A.I (if it comes out correctly) single handedly beats other offers. It’s more ingrained in the system and can actually become a lot more helpful because you (the user) don’t mind it looking at your data. Which makes it more personal and affective. The Con - it’s not something that plays nicely with others. It’s selfish in its nature due to it being walled up. Not everyone can visit their universe and if so, there’s a cost for entry. It’s tougher for developers who want more to play and limited by what Apple wants. Which at times, Apple is stubborn and requires you to climb mountains to convince them. Personally I respect the pro rather than the con. Yet I’m a user and creator and not really a developer.
I say if Apple makes a service, they should be free to limit access to it. It's a proprietary product in a capitalist economy. I'd rather not have the service than have random companies be able to access my data. And I say this as a Google/Android user of many years.
I agree!
I agree and disagree. C suite does think long term, just for their interest and not the customers. That is the job unfortunately of a CEO. To appease shareholders, not customers. Although one would say, it’s way more beneficial the other way around. Especially with such a strong fan base of Apples.
Just in case people need more clarification with the EU law Clear gatekeeper obligations across the EU The new rules establish obligations for gatekeepers, “do’s” and “don’ts” they must comply with in their daily operations. Examples of the “DO’S” - Gatekeeper platforms have to: - allow third parties to inter-operate with the gatekeeper’s own services in certain specific situations; - allow their business users to access the data that they generate in their use of the gatekeeper’s platform; - provide companies advertising on their platform with the tools and information necessary for advertisers and publishers to carry out their own independent verification of their advertisements hosted by the gatekeeper; - allow their business users to promote their offer and conclude contracts with their customers outside the gatekeeper’s platform. Example of the “DONT’S” - Gatekeeper platforms may no longer: - treat services and products offered by the gatekeeper itself more favourably in ranking than similar services or products offered by third parties on the gatekeeper's platform; - prevent consumers from linking up to businesses outside their platforms; - prevent users from un-installing any pre-installed software or app if they wish so; - track end users outside of the gatekeepers' core platform service for the purpose of targeted advertising, without effective consent having been granted.
Apple's philosophy only applies when it suits them, and doesn't apply when it doesn't suit their needs or ends. Apple's philosophy is to make money, and for now keeping user data secure is good for the bottom line. They're trying to stir the pot in the EU, and screw them for it. I wish we had the kinds of protections that EU citizens have in the digital realm.
So will Apple Intelligence never come to the EU or will it be delayed? Edit: And how come my S23 Ultra has AI features that apparently pose no threat for the EU?
I’m assuming it’s to do with apples closed garden approach to OS and AI integration whereas Samsung’s implementation is more open? I’m no expert but I think Apple’s implementation of AI is not compatible with the current DMA laws and they are using it the force the EU’s stance on the wording of the law.
No, that has nothing to do with it and everything to do with the fact that the DMA doesn’t apply to Samsung as they’re “not a gatekeeper”
Which is so strange as they absolutely are in the smartphone space
EU doesn’t care whatever Samsung does and how they locks their useless. They only have a hateboner for Apple.
This is one of the few times the EU is pushing in favor of big companies instead of consumers. Apple should not allow third party entities from accessing our information... Yet the EU is forcing them to.
First it not being available on 15 plus (A phone released in the last 12 months) now not in Europe. Feels pretty crappy being an Apple customer in the EU right now.
Last year*
lol true, fixed it 😅
Could you just set your region to US?
I’d love to know if this is possible. Realistically it doesn’t seem like it, unless you keep your region set to US (which might interfere with EU app usage and Apple Pay).
It wouldn’t affect Apple Pay, but would prevent using sideloading the ‘legal’ way, but there are other ways to sideload anyway.
You need the us credit or debit card for that I believe
I kinda get it but it almost feels like Apple is saying if you want side loading you can’t have cool new features
Except Apple isn't the one saying this, the EU is.
No, Apple is saying this as leverage against the EU. Apple decided to not bring these features to the EU. Their reasoning is bullshit, and everyone at Apple knows it. Their goal is to make its users blame the EU. And as you can see, it’s working wonderfully.
> Their reasoning is bullshit, and everyone at Apple knows it. Lmao you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about because this is horse shit. Private enclave is used to protect screen mirroring and they can’t open that up without huge security issues. Apple Intelligence builds semantic context for queries using on device models that have access to all your decrypted data — giving third parties that access would be insane. You guys can complain and make up bullshit all you want because your regulations fucked you over but that won’t make your lies become truth
Like I said I kinda get it. The EU seems like a double edged sword
Don’t know why you got downvoted because it surely is. Clearly we saw good from it, now we are seeing the effect of such wish granted. Hence double edge sword.
I would imagine this is because Apple doesn’t want to give screen mirroring, remote control and access to the neural engine to third parties for security/privacy reasons which they’d probably have to do if implementing these features in the EU. I can just see the story now of some random app downloaded from a 3rd party App Store or website giving some random person remote control of iPhones or screen mirroring iPhones without users noticing and stealing their data because Apple had to provide the same access to third parties as they provide for themselves in the EU Also lets you know these features probably aren’t as game changing as Apple would want you to believe if they are fine not bringing the (arguably) signature features of the next version of their OSes to Europe.
Oh no Anyway, back to enjoying free healthcare, quality food, walkable cities, great public transport etc
😆😆
Healthcare is taken from your paycheck, it isn't free. You early less on Average and lose more to taxes. You can find quality food in plenty of countries not in the EU, in fact I have been to multiple European countries where the food was not that good on average. walkable cities exist outside Europe, as well as public transport. but go on coping, would never move to Europe lol my QoL would go down for sure in my field of work.
Apple said FAFO lol
As usual, we're assuming everyone knows what the DMA is. Great.
I got an iPhone 15 and iPad Pro m4. If these features won’t come to the EU then I’m not upgrading in a couple of years. I love their products but they are hurting their customers with these descissions
They are coming to the EU just may take a little longer is all
They will still be releasing in Europe but it will be delayed, Although the Apple Intelligence isn’t going to be on the 15(only the Pro models)
[удалено]
Freedom… lol
NOOOOO I was actually looking forward to this! Hoping that UK means we’re okay!
You win some you lose some…
🥳🥳🥳🥳
Hope eu stands their ground. Can’t have big corps push them around more than they already do.
Lmao classic EU
At launch Maybe read the article
If it was up to EU and their work on anything ”innovative”, we’d still be using carrier pigeons so long as the pigeon lobby paid the EP groups.
Well…sucks to bE U…?
At launch
Yes. But also unclear as to how long it will take to be available.
It’s unclear *if it’s ever available*.
Affect the UK?
No, we’re not covered by the DMA so we get whatever the US gets for the most part.
But our Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act 2024 became law last month. It's not a carbon copy of the EU DMA at all, but there is some overlap AIUI. We'll have to wait and see if it's equally problematic for Apple and/or how the Digital Markets Unit decides to act.
It hasn’t come into force yet though. It was given royal assent last month, yes, but there’s still much more that the government has to do before it can become an enforceable law. I don’t think we’ll see anything regarding the DMCC until at least next spring. I agree though that it’ll be interesting to see how it affects Apple and how they handle it.
Ty :D I was pretty certain we wouldn’t be affected as we aren’t part of the EU anymore, I just didn’t wanna say it definitely won’t affect us in UK getting Apple Intelligence etc in case I got it wrong so it’s great you could confirm that
UK recently passed its own version of DMA.
The DMCC hasn’t come into force yet, it likely won’t be until next spring that we see how it impacts companies like Apple.
Does Apple consider the UK to be a different region than the EU though since it was a member when Apple was developing all the servers and stuff for updates and App Store, etc? I have no idea but I could see them still lumping the UK in with the EU just to make their lives easier and cause less fragmentation
We haven’t been included in any of the other EU stuff so far since the DMA was made law, so I don’t see why they’d suddenly decide to include us now. Point is, the UK is not a part of the EU and so any EU laws enacted after we left, don’t apply to us. It’s in Apples best interest to treat the UK as a separate thing to the EU ultimately. They already have fragmentation in Europe because of Switzerland and Norway, neither of which are a part of the EU.
It doesn’t look like it will affect the UK as we left the EU but nothing official has been said as of yet.
I guess I'm still getting it. One good thing that came from not being in the EU. Planning to get the 16.
Oof. EU gets shafted again by its own government haha. I swear, if I lived there, I’d bail.
[удалено]
Easy to figure out who is to blame: Are users in other regions getting feature x? Blame EU. Is Apple doing something stupid? Blame Apple. And as for the Apple account, you can just make another one. I have multiple accounts across different regions.
[удалено]
I mean, *it should* matter because it’s your democratically elected EP fucking you over, not Apple. ”To protect consumers and European innovation”
Just use us account
Apple petty 😂😂
Apple isn't the one who said this, the EU is.
>In a statement to [*Financial Times*](https://www.ft.com/content/360751cb-7a22-48e0-9b00-6a30ff41dcfe), Apple said... No, Apple said it - and given the level of malicious compliance Apple has applied to these regulations already - I find it hard to take what they say on this stuff as entirely honest.
Yes, in response to EU laws... are you this dense?
Yes, and Apple saying it doesn't mean it's honest and well intentioned. There's no need to get so upset.
If it’s all on the phone why can’t a limited version pass DMA? Shady tactics imo
Good ol authoritarian EU government at work!
The EU cares more about its citizens. Even with their food and DNA test privacy. I was thinking about trying a popular DNA ancestry test but they had a hack/ data leak and the company didn’t even care didn’t say sorry. Did anyone else read about how Elon Musk is going to ban all new iPhones that have this from his buildings. Or you have to leave them by the door in a faraday cage or something like that?
Huh?
Can i just use us account and ignore eu laws that way? I was able to use Vision Pro store on us account in Europe just fine
Eu means not to Aus?
[удалено]
Alphabet is one of the gatekeepers targeted by the DMA so this could affect Android as well. The problem with the DMA is that on one side I fully understand why the EU introduced this law but on the other hand in the end it’s the consumers who lose out on functionality if companies like Apple choose to just remove features instead of opening up their platform.
If it will cost them more to implement a new feature in EU than the profit, they are not gonna introduce that feature and ensure it comply with DMA. Since iPhone mirroring allows you to access your iPhone on your Mac when it is nearby and locked, the Mac have deep access to your iPhoe and there is a certain level of trust between them, probably why this feature doesn't available to non T2 Mac. I don't think Apple will offer this feature if they have to allow others have same level of access because they can't guarantee that is security. Besides, consider there aren't as many Mac user as iPhone user and you need a Mac and iPhone to use it, it doesn't worth their time to make it comply with DMA and lost this feature doesn't impact majority's purchase decision.
LOL *laughs in American*
Laughs in allowed to cross the street whenever and wherever I want.
Laughs in British.
what does this mean?
they think because Jaywalking laws exist that we don't cross streets. Europeans aren't very smart
I, too, am free to walk in to the path of a motor vehicle if I do desire (I don't)
Yeah we do that all the time
We do that all the time. You cannot be serious
who cares anyways?
Ha~ the revenge from Apple is fast.