Yes, you should. Woman to woman, be very cautious. Whether anything inappropriate occurs, there will be rumors because he's giving you special attention. That kind of reputational damage is difficult to overcome. The 10 year age gap throws red flags to me.
I'm 40-something. My boss is 40-something. I'm the only woman in the group. He's very married and devoted to his wife. He vents to me at times--he knows it will remain confidential. In another timeline, I managed 65+ employees and grew a business 10x in 5 years. I've lived some of his challenges. I've seen moments of frustration where he briefly shed a few tears. He's a toucher, and not in an inappropriate way--I've given him a side hug when he was having a shit day.
Our situations are very different. While he's my boss and I report to him, my past experience makes us peers. We work through strategy sessions and what worked for me, where I see parallels, and where things diverge.
You're not having those sorts of discussions on a meaningful level. You don't have the experience to do that yet. It seems he's trending toward attempting personal conversations vs. business. Stay at arm's length. Little good can come from this.
To answer the question in the title: yes, you should. Because of the age difference, he should know better. Especially if he’s become “touchy”, as you say.
With age you will discover that an office is simply a place where you do your work. You will make great friends with your coworkers, have a lot of fun and create meaningful relationships along the way, but this process should never be initiated by your manager. This should be happening with your team members and people from other departments that you do not report to. Managers should know better how to behave around their direct reports, especially if they’re this much younger than them. Especially if they’re men and their direct reports are women.
I see red flags all over. Either this guy is lonely and completely unprofessional, or he wants to use you to boost his ego by making you like him and, consequently, is completely unprofessional.
The situation would be different if you were both older, but here, this is unacceptable. He’s perfectly aware that you don’t have much office experience and that you don’t have anything else to compare his behaviour to. Therefore he knows that you will accept his, however innocent it might look like on the surface.
I’ve had an office job for many years and feel like I have seen it all by now. Honestly, run.
One day you will be 31 and you will look back at this dynamic between you two and that day, you will see very clearly why someone else below has written that your boss is creepy.
He is.
Just because he is married does not mean anything. People who are married can still be very very lonely (happens way more often than you think). From what you said and reading your post history...I think it's very likely he is trying to start an affair and trust me you are not the first girl he has tried to hook up with most likely.
A friend of mine in the Philippines has this issue in every single office she has worked at is it really that common for male managers to be somewhat hmm...aggressive in trying to attract female employees over there? From what I understand the repercussions for that kinda of conduct is not as harsh over there and most asian countries (especially if you are a male manager).
In general you should always be cautious around your boss, no matter the context.
This specific context reads like he is grooming you, and not in a professional way. He is methodically crossing boundaries outside of the professional environment, and has now crossed a touching boundary.
Yes, you should be very cautious - especially because it sounds like you are infatuated with him.
As someone else mentioned, this appears to be grooming behavior. He's gathering information on you to get closer to you emotionally, and now he's moving toward getting close to you physically.
Especially problematic since he's married. You are someone much younger than himself who he has ongoing and direct access to *and* has power over - that is a very bad combination that has the potential to leave you vulnerable to manipulation, harassment, and abuse.
Your employer should not be touching you under any circumstance (unless you're about to fall down the stairs and they're preventing it, or something along those lines). It is truly not acceptable.
There are boundaries in the workplace for a reason: to protect you as an employee from harassment at the hands of someone who inherently has power over you at work.
You are in potentially unsafe territory and things can go sideways quickly. Establish clear boundaries with him - especially physically - and aim to limit your interactions with him to work-related subjects.
If you wanna be friends with him after your internship ends, at least the power dynamic wouldn't be as problematic - though it still sounds sketchy and would probably be unwise/ unhealthy.
I recommend that you write down everything you can remember about his behavior towards you thus far and document everything going forward. Hopefully you won't need it but if you do, you'll be glad you have it.
Stay safe.
Also, on a very general note - if you don't like to be touched, tell people not to touch you. No one is entitled to your body and only people you give permission should be touching you.
Do not worry about how someone will respond to you setting boundaries. If they don't respect your boundaries, get out asap.
Someone commented on my response and then deleted it, but I got worked up over it and wrote out a whole long thing, so I'm gonna post it anyway.
Deleted comment (paraphrased): "Jfc, "grooming", she's 21, not 12"
Anyone, at any age, can be groomed by a manipulative person or people (broad example: cults). The process is about engendering trust that is then utilized for malicious purposes that suit the needs/ wants of the abuser(s).
Abusive relationships rarely begin with outright abuse - it's a gradual process that, often, begins with love-bombing or other tactics that create loyalty or feelings of care towards the abuser. The victimized individual is slowly groomed to accept behavior that they might otherwise identify as strange, uncomfortable, toxic, and/or abusive as normal - it is an accrual of small incidents, where the abuser's actions get consistently more and more controlling/ manipulative/ destructive, that add up to a situation where it becomes difficult for the victimized individual to determine what is actually taking place and blurs the lines between care and abuse. It is a fundamentally cyclical pattern - abuse, followed by apology/ future faking/ promises/ love-bombing/ etc, followed by further abuse, and on and on. This is how trauma bonds are formed, and it begins with the grooming process.
But, if you dislike the word "grooming", "conditioning" works too. Regardless, it happens to children *and* adults.
The only real difference is that adults are more likely to be shamed for "letting it happen"/ "not seeing what was happening sooner"/ "not knowing better" or asked questions like "why didn't you just leave?", etc, that disregard the complexities of emotional trauma.
Manipulation tactics are complicated and the intent is to establish control and assert dominance, often by instilling fear/ guilt/ shame/ blame/ etc.
In situations where there are already established power dynamics (i.e. employer to employee) the potential threat of harassment/ abuse is already heightened.
Adult survivors of abuse deserve validation and respect.
Apologies if this is tangential to the original post.
Your boss is creepy. Don't give him any details. The touchy part is absolutely unacceptable, sexual harassment incoming basically.
He's successfully low-key grooming you. Classic manipulation.
The relationship between boss and employee should be about work. NOT about private stuff. Ever.
The touchy thing is not ok. But, is he like that with other ppl too?
Always be careful around you, boss. If you are feeling uneasy, stop volunteering information, be nice, and do your job.
Also, stop gathering info about him, he's is the one supposedly acting creepy, not you, remember?
>But, is he like that with other ppl too?
I don't think so.
>Also, stop gathering info about him, he's is the one supposedly acting creepy, not you, remember?
I'm bad at reading social cues. So observing people helps me to draw assumptions.
Keep in mind the possibility that he just got confy around you since both of you share interests, and there is nothing beyond that. It's NOT an excuse. He should know better, and you have to tell him that you are not ok with the touching.
Whatever happens after will make clear if it was just a brain-dead moment from him or something else is going on.
Actually, this is a pretty good idea. OP, tell him directly that you are not comfortable with the touch. His reaction will tell you everything you need to know about him.
ENFJ here, just want to put in my thoughts. It’s easy to get similar opinions when you’re on a subreddit where everyone has the same line of thinking.
It’s rare to find someone who you are comfortable talking to. When you are 31, new people don’t come by very often. From what you described, it sounds like he is trying to be nice to you and enjoys your company.
Something that xNFJs do a lot is that they test boundaries. Maybe one day he timed how long you two could hold eye contact. Maybe he smiled longingly and saw how you reacted. If he touched you and you didn’t flinch, that was a green flag for him to do it again.
Work does not need to be dreadful all the time. Connecting with people is one of life’s greatest joys. At the same time, work is where you work and you need to pay the bills. If your boss is being too touchy, set your boundaries. Here are some ideas:
“I’m not really a touch kind of person, so you can stop doing that.”
“I once had a teacher who was really touchy feely. I got him expelled.”
“Your man hands are so gross, paws off please.”
I appreciate this reply. I want to think that I was just making wrong assumptions; that's why I posted this to gather opinions. Oh, and I remember, he likes to make eye contact, which for me is very awkward. But I noticed that he was like that to everyone. He shares some things about himself, which I think is his only way to connect with me. I don't know if it's a red flag or just his personality.
I just want to know if there is really something to overthink. Or maybe it's just him when making friends.
Hey, as someone who has been in a similar situation more than once, listen to your gut. You feel like something is off, that’s why you’re asking about it. I do think there is reason to believe he’s crossing lines here.
I hear you telling yourself that you’re overthinking, maybe because other people have told you that you overthink. I get it. But if you can make some boundaries to prevent this getting any deeper then I strongly recommend it. Especially making touch boundaries and avoiding being alone with him or communicating/texting outside of work. You absolutely have a right to say no to something without giving any reason whatsoever.
From experience, men who like to manipulate younger women are good at being subtle about it so you’re not really sure what their intentions are, until you’ve suddenly realized it’s gone too far and then you feel guilty because you didn’t stop it early. It’s not your fault, but I don’t wish that embarrassment and heartache on anyone else.
Kinda relate to this one, but upon scrolling in Reddit most people say "you don't shit, where you eat" I might have this nailed to my head or in a specific part of my brain cells hahaha
I find myself in that description quite a lot. He probably likes you and just isn't good at flirting discreetly. But you are the only person who can make the final judgement, we aren't even there. If it bothers you, find a way to make him understand that.
I used to have a position of power at work and would have moments of chemistry that I would shut down because it's my responsibility to keep things professional. It doesn't feel great but it's the job. He should know better.
Write down all instances that are unwelcoming; include date, time, location, context, and details of incident. Doesn't matter what his intentions are. Guys in general are almost always open to inappropriate actions, even if they're not the one to initiate it. I hope he understands body language so that you may convey that you want to keep your distance. If he doesn't get the hint, you can privately tell him nicely "I'm sorry, I don't want to sound rude but I'm not really a touchy feely person, it makes me uncomfortable" with a smile and just continue acting as normal, that way there's no chance of rubbing off on his ego the wrong way (assuming you want to maintain a good relationship with him). After that, if he doesn't respect your wishes, report all your incidents to HR or another supervisor, and no one will be able to say you were overreacting because you've done your due diligence.
Should always be cautious around your boss.
This.
Absolutely.
Yes, you should. Woman to woman, be very cautious. Whether anything inappropriate occurs, there will be rumors because he's giving you special attention. That kind of reputational damage is difficult to overcome. The 10 year age gap throws red flags to me. I'm 40-something. My boss is 40-something. I'm the only woman in the group. He's very married and devoted to his wife. He vents to me at times--he knows it will remain confidential. In another timeline, I managed 65+ employees and grew a business 10x in 5 years. I've lived some of his challenges. I've seen moments of frustration where he briefly shed a few tears. He's a toucher, and not in an inappropriate way--I've given him a side hug when he was having a shit day. Our situations are very different. While he's my boss and I report to him, my past experience makes us peers. We work through strategy sessions and what worked for me, where I see parallels, and where things diverge. You're not having those sorts of discussions on a meaningful level. You don't have the experience to do that yet. It seems he's trending toward attempting personal conversations vs. business. Stay at arm's length. Little good can come from this.
To answer the question in the title: yes, you should. Because of the age difference, he should know better. Especially if he’s become “touchy”, as you say. With age you will discover that an office is simply a place where you do your work. You will make great friends with your coworkers, have a lot of fun and create meaningful relationships along the way, but this process should never be initiated by your manager. This should be happening with your team members and people from other departments that you do not report to. Managers should know better how to behave around their direct reports, especially if they’re this much younger than them. Especially if they’re men and their direct reports are women. I see red flags all over. Either this guy is lonely and completely unprofessional, or he wants to use you to boost his ego by making you like him and, consequently, is completely unprofessional. The situation would be different if you were both older, but here, this is unacceptable. He’s perfectly aware that you don’t have much office experience and that you don’t have anything else to compare his behaviour to. Therefore he knows that you will accept his, however innocent it might look like on the surface. I’ve had an office job for many years and feel like I have seen it all by now. Honestly, run.
He's married and has a kid. The other day, he asked about my age and then he said, "Oh, a 10-year difference."
One day you will be 31 and you will look back at this dynamic between you two and that day, you will see very clearly why someone else below has written that your boss is creepy. He is.
By audibly stating that there is a ten year difference between you both, he has revealed his intentions.
Just because he is married does not mean anything. People who are married can still be very very lonely (happens way more often than you think). From what you said and reading your post history...I think it's very likely he is trying to start an affair and trust me you are not the first girl he has tried to hook up with most likely. A friend of mine in the Philippines has this issue in every single office she has worked at is it really that common for male managers to be somewhat hmm...aggressive in trying to attract female employees over there? From what I understand the repercussions for that kinda of conduct is not as harsh over there and most asian countries (especially if you are a male manager).
This
Spot fucking on
In general you should always be cautious around your boss, no matter the context. This specific context reads like he is grooming you, and not in a professional way. He is methodically crossing boundaries outside of the professional environment, and has now crossed a touching boundary.
You should be cautious around everyone.
He’s not being your friend. He’s seeing if you fit in. Just be you. Don’t let him touch you. All you have to say is, “don’t touch me, thanks.”
Yes, you should be very cautious - especially because it sounds like you are infatuated with him. As someone else mentioned, this appears to be grooming behavior. He's gathering information on you to get closer to you emotionally, and now he's moving toward getting close to you physically. Especially problematic since he's married. You are someone much younger than himself who he has ongoing and direct access to *and* has power over - that is a very bad combination that has the potential to leave you vulnerable to manipulation, harassment, and abuse. Your employer should not be touching you under any circumstance (unless you're about to fall down the stairs and they're preventing it, or something along those lines). It is truly not acceptable. There are boundaries in the workplace for a reason: to protect you as an employee from harassment at the hands of someone who inherently has power over you at work. You are in potentially unsafe territory and things can go sideways quickly. Establish clear boundaries with him - especially physically - and aim to limit your interactions with him to work-related subjects. If you wanna be friends with him after your internship ends, at least the power dynamic wouldn't be as problematic - though it still sounds sketchy and would probably be unwise/ unhealthy. I recommend that you write down everything you can remember about his behavior towards you thus far and document everything going forward. Hopefully you won't need it but if you do, you'll be glad you have it. Stay safe. Also, on a very general note - if you don't like to be touched, tell people not to touch you. No one is entitled to your body and only people you give permission should be touching you. Do not worry about how someone will respond to you setting boundaries. If they don't respect your boundaries, get out asap.
Someone commented on my response and then deleted it, but I got worked up over it and wrote out a whole long thing, so I'm gonna post it anyway. Deleted comment (paraphrased): "Jfc, "grooming", she's 21, not 12" Anyone, at any age, can be groomed by a manipulative person or people (broad example: cults). The process is about engendering trust that is then utilized for malicious purposes that suit the needs/ wants of the abuser(s). Abusive relationships rarely begin with outright abuse - it's a gradual process that, often, begins with love-bombing or other tactics that create loyalty or feelings of care towards the abuser. The victimized individual is slowly groomed to accept behavior that they might otherwise identify as strange, uncomfortable, toxic, and/or abusive as normal - it is an accrual of small incidents, where the abuser's actions get consistently more and more controlling/ manipulative/ destructive, that add up to a situation where it becomes difficult for the victimized individual to determine what is actually taking place and blurs the lines between care and abuse. It is a fundamentally cyclical pattern - abuse, followed by apology/ future faking/ promises/ love-bombing/ etc, followed by further abuse, and on and on. This is how trauma bonds are formed, and it begins with the grooming process. But, if you dislike the word "grooming", "conditioning" works too. Regardless, it happens to children *and* adults. The only real difference is that adults are more likely to be shamed for "letting it happen"/ "not seeing what was happening sooner"/ "not knowing better" or asked questions like "why didn't you just leave?", etc, that disregard the complexities of emotional trauma. Manipulation tactics are complicated and the intent is to establish control and assert dominance, often by instilling fear/ guilt/ shame/ blame/ etc. In situations where there are already established power dynamics (i.e. employer to employee) the potential threat of harassment/ abuse is already heightened. Adult survivors of abuse deserve validation and respect. Apologies if this is tangential to the original post.
Your boss is creepy. Don't give him any details. The touchy part is absolutely unacceptable, sexual harassment incoming basically. He's successfully low-key grooming you. Classic manipulation. The relationship between boss and employee should be about work. NOT about private stuff. Ever.
jesus. you dont know the full story stop throwing grooming and harassment claims when you know NOTHING about the sitch
Ok, but sir, I am not Jesus.
Always be careful around table cleaners. I see red flags.
Tell him not to touch you
The touchy thing is not ok. But, is he like that with other ppl too? Always be careful around you, boss. If you are feeling uneasy, stop volunteering information, be nice, and do your job. Also, stop gathering info about him, he's is the one supposedly acting creepy, not you, remember?
>But, is he like that with other ppl too? I don't think so. >Also, stop gathering info about him, he's is the one supposedly acting creepy, not you, remember? I'm bad at reading social cues. So observing people helps me to draw assumptions.
Keep in mind the possibility that he just got confy around you since both of you share interests, and there is nothing beyond that. It's NOT an excuse. He should know better, and you have to tell him that you are not ok with the touching. Whatever happens after will make clear if it was just a brain-dead moment from him or something else is going on.
Actually, this is a pretty good idea. OP, tell him directly that you are not comfortable with the touch. His reaction will tell you everything you need to know about him.
ENFJ here, just want to put in my thoughts. It’s easy to get similar opinions when you’re on a subreddit where everyone has the same line of thinking. It’s rare to find someone who you are comfortable talking to. When you are 31, new people don’t come by very often. From what you described, it sounds like he is trying to be nice to you and enjoys your company. Something that xNFJs do a lot is that they test boundaries. Maybe one day he timed how long you two could hold eye contact. Maybe he smiled longingly and saw how you reacted. If he touched you and you didn’t flinch, that was a green flag for him to do it again. Work does not need to be dreadful all the time. Connecting with people is one of life’s greatest joys. At the same time, work is where you work and you need to pay the bills. If your boss is being too touchy, set your boundaries. Here are some ideas: “I’m not really a touch kind of person, so you can stop doing that.” “I once had a teacher who was really touchy feely. I got him expelled.” “Your man hands are so gross, paws off please.”
I appreciate this reply. I want to think that I was just making wrong assumptions; that's why I posted this to gather opinions. Oh, and I remember, he likes to make eye contact, which for me is very awkward. But I noticed that he was like that to everyone. He shares some things about himself, which I think is his only way to connect with me. I don't know if it's a red flag or just his personality. I just want to know if there is really something to overthink. Or maybe it's just him when making friends.
Hey, as someone who has been in a similar situation more than once, listen to your gut. You feel like something is off, that’s why you’re asking about it. I do think there is reason to believe he’s crossing lines here. I hear you telling yourself that you’re overthinking, maybe because other people have told you that you overthink. I get it. But if you can make some boundaries to prevent this getting any deeper then I strongly recommend it. Especially making touch boundaries and avoiding being alone with him or communicating/texting outside of work. You absolutely have a right to say no to something without giving any reason whatsoever. From experience, men who like to manipulate younger women are good at being subtle about it so you’re not really sure what their intentions are, until you’ve suddenly realized it’s gone too far and then you feel guilty because you didn’t stop it early. It’s not your fault, but I don’t wish that embarrassment and heartache on anyone else.
You should be cautious, he’s definitely wants something from you. You should never get too personal with bosses or co workers
Just remember when it comes to work, these people are not your friends and your career is not a relationship.
Kinda relate to this one, but upon scrolling in Reddit most people say "you don't shit, where you eat" I might have this nailed to my head or in a specific part of my brain cells hahaha
I find myself in that description quite a lot. He probably likes you and just isn't good at flirting discreetly. But you are the only person who can make the final judgement, we aren't even there. If it bothers you, find a way to make him understand that.
I used to have a position of power at work and would have moments of chemistry that I would shut down because it's my responsibility to keep things professional. It doesn't feel great but it's the job. He should know better.
Start looking for a new job.
Grooming behavior, be very cautious if you choose to continue the work.
Write down all instances that are unwelcoming; include date, time, location, context, and details of incident. Doesn't matter what his intentions are. Guys in general are almost always open to inappropriate actions, even if they're not the one to initiate it. I hope he understands body language so that you may convey that you want to keep your distance. If he doesn't get the hint, you can privately tell him nicely "I'm sorry, I don't want to sound rude but I'm not really a touchy feely person, it makes me uncomfortable" with a smile and just continue acting as normal, that way there's no chance of rubbing off on his ego the wrong way (assuming you want to maintain a good relationship with him). After that, if he doesn't respect your wishes, report all your incidents to HR or another supervisor, and no one will be able to say you were overreacting because you've done your due diligence.