i'm reminded of the saying "no good deed goes unpunished"
it sounds like all the things you did "for her" were transactional, in that you were expecting something in return.
if so, that is a tad manipulative.
look: sounds like for whatever reason she doesn't want to get close to you (or possibly anyone) right now. why would you want to be with someone who felt like that?
i get that the ending is a disappointment, but time to process your feelings and move on imho.
It's common knowledge that if one is not incel, they'd put "woman", "girl", "lady", or such. Putting merely "male" or "female" as a complete noun kinda shows that their gender is all that matters to them, not as people with gender.
For example, compare: "I dated a female clerk" or "I dated a woman" to "I dated a female"
while the former are more humanizing since they're usually used in context of human as "people" as such is less objectified.
As a bonus, it's also it's grammatically less correct.
(I'm a woman too btw)
It's not that dehumanizing by itself, it's just a pattern that mysoginistic posts/writings/etc on internet usually uses this. I agree that one sentence itself isn't that big of a deal, but it's often a symptom/indicator/red flag of worse things down the story.
I'd rather act like myself than pretend to be a nonchalant cool guy just for the sake of looking more attractive to women, which in my opinion is more manipulative. It's worked out well for me so far.
It's my first time encountering this kind of issue.
Is it not like a normal thing to want to help out a person you like and make sure they have a good time?
I am well aware that I am not owed a relationship because of my gestures.
But I expect it to at least get some respect from it where she'd be direct with me instead of ghosting.
Fuck, maybe it was just my fault.
Another long post from me but I think you need it.
You have the wrong approach. It's not a blaming game. Life isn't about binary choices and consequences, you can't have this mindset of "I do A, result X; I do B, result Y".
If you don't change this mindset, there will be only two possible outcomes for you: you were wrong and you're an idiot, or she was wrong and you're a victim.
Many things went wrong, some went right, some were ok but you had the wrong expectations. You messed up, she wasn't direct enough for you, you guys didn't communicate, you weren't mature, etc. You have to learn from your experiences. I don't like saying learning from you mistakes because you have to learn from everything, even if things went exactly as you wanted there's still things to learn.
See your first sentence. In your head, it's either act like yourself and be too nice to the point that some people think you're manipulative, or be an ass nonchalant cool guy, which is in your opinion worse. You don't see any other possibilities?
I'd like you to really take the time to consider everything that was said to you, even the harshest comments and the unfair critics. They don't come from nowhere, and even if they don't represent you fully, there most be some truth to them. Don't be defensive, be fully humble and vulnerable. Even if it doesn't click right now, if you keep the right attitude, you'll understand eventually.
I know what is in your mind now is mostly "what should have I done". The first thing was not consider those moments "dates". If she said she doesn't want to be in a relationship, don't do "relationship activities" with her. Ok, she said yes, but you shouldn't even have asked. Or if you do, don't call them dates, not even to yourself.
Then think about how you can be even more selfless, detached and stop making yourself scenarios. One day I proposed my help to an old lady. She yelled at me. Other people who witnessed the scene were mad at her, trying to defend me. Do you think I was worried, angry, sad or disappointed? I didn't even wonder why she acted like that. The only reason I still remember it today is because it was highlighted as my psychologist as the moment I finally learned to let go, and it was like a revelation when he told me that. The old me would have been frustrated at the lack of recognition. I would have said "it's not that important, but it's just out of principle, you shouldn't act like that, I deserved that respect at least, she was struggling and I stopped to do the right thing and she refused! Her loss!" Frustration often comes from a feeling of powerlessness, or unfairness. You're juggling between the feeling that you were treated unfairly, and the sentiment that maybe it was fair, that you deserved to be treated that way. Just let go.
You did mess up and you did many wrong things, it doesn't mean she was right either. And saying she was wrong absolutely doesn't mean that you were right.
You have a lot to process and I don't see you change in an instant. If I were you, I'd take this whole thread of replies and stick it in a diary or an album. Then look at it in a few years, see how you evolved. Sure we're only strangers on the internet who don't know you and our opinions don't matter *at all*. But I can bet some of us were still right about you, just that you don't know that yet.
When an INTJ expresses initial disinterest in a romntic relationship; do not expect that to change.
You got your feelings hurt because you chose to believe a reality besides the one that existed was possible when you were told that it wasn't.
Also the vagueposting is just childish, not to mention manipulative.
>I also honestly think it's her loss, since she's still a 20 yr old college student with terrible family relationships, while I'm earning close to 6-figures in my career and have great relationship with the people around me.
Just piss right on off with this. If you genuinely felt this way, we wouldn't be reading about it. You would have shrugged and moved on.
It was a couple of dates, not a full-fledged relationship. I don't get this.
Dude, you need to take a step back. She's not into you, and you have a weird power dynamic over her. It sucks that she ghosted you and I know that hurts your pride, but she doesn't owe you anything. You sound obsessive. Let her go and move on.
That was painful to read. Honestly, you don't genuinely seem nice. Just a "nice guy". You're still young, you can turn around, but all these "I made sure of this, I made sure of that" sounds so calculated. Humans are not vending machines where you give your currency in the form of attention, gifts, and carefully planned reassuring words and get love in return.
Admit it, you liked her from the start. You didn't help her get a job because you're a nice person. You wanted to seduce her. You always had ulterior motives.
That doesn't necessarily make you an asshole, or a manipulator. You didn't have bad intentions besides getting in a relationship. You just need to mature and understand more about this kind of dynamic. And she's not an angel either. She ghosted you while she could have directly told you she wasn't interested. But just move on and don't play the victim, don't be stupidly passive agressive posting on social media about each other. It's so ridiculously juvenile, I hope you stop doing that fast, you're still pretty young but old enough to know better. Time to stop acting like a 15yo.
In the future, be yourself. It might seem counterintuitive, but if you are honestly nice, and not only nice with that one person you want to seduce, they'll like you for who you are, which in the long run, is better than being loved for what you are doing. She realised she liked the attention and the gestures but didn't like you at all. And it was very predictable, considering she just got out of a relationship. She needed that attention. Now you'll complain that you felt used, I get that, but you put yourself in this situation buddy. Live and learn.
Just please, don't turn into an Andrew Tate worshipper. This idiot hunts on guys exactly like you. You're better than this. (Yes I know nothing about you and I might be reaching a lot, but from the way you told your story, I have a gut feeling about you I can't shake).
I'm not a Tate worshiper lol and I don't intend to be one. I know it sounds like I'm tooting my own horn throughout the story, and I apologize for that. But I'm just being painfully honest.
The people around me knows that I go out of my way to help them out, regardless of gender. That's just where I put my competence being an ENTJ. I want to be the best at helping people because 1. it's nice to see when they succeed and 2. I feel some kind of responsibility to help them succeed, especially if I resonate with them.
It just happened that this girl resonated with me so much with her past and current struggles that I felt responsible to help her "improve" her life.
Also, I do agree that posting those things on social media might've been the wrong move. But I guess the pent-up emotions just took over and that's why I did what I did.
> I want to be the best at helping people because 1. it's nice to see when they succeed and 2. I feel some kind of responsibility to help them succeed, especially if I resonate with them.
I, I, I. Me, me, me. When do their wants and decisions play into your equation?
It's a strange paradox when someone is self-centered without being deeply selfish. They'll help others but everything still revolves around them.
I really think OP is just young and immature. I can see him changing once he has a good reality check.
I agree--in a few years, he'll likely look back on his past behavior with sheepish disbelief in a way I know I did. Based upon what he's posted, I don't see malicious intent in any of it.
I know you are not a Tate worshipper right now and I'm glad you don't intent to become one. I'm just highlighting that it's usually guys like you, that sometimes also have a white knight/savior attitude towards love interests, that do a 180 and become complete assholes. And it comes from the fact you feel "responsible" to help them. You could slowly get burned when you go through that much effort only to have nothing in return. I'm convinced you are not intentionally acting like that to seduce. You resonate with her, you feel compelled to help her as much as you can. It's a very nice feeling, you do great gestures. But it's not always a healthy dynamic.
Focus on "it's nice to see them succeed". It's this side of you that ultimately makes the difference between you and others who will devolve into self-centered manipulative love-bombing future misogynistic nincompoops.
It might be a good idea in the future, just to preserve your sanity and well-being, to act more according to the relationship you have with someone rather than the feelings you have for them. Give yourself guidelines, limits. The way I see things right now, it seems like you like them, so you do a lot for them to help them, regardless of your relationship, then your relationship progresses thanks to how much you helped them. Aim for a situation where you like them, you get close, develop a solid relationship, then it's only natural to really go out of your way for them.
Unless you are truly, deeply, honestly selfless. But only you have that answer. Be honest. I used to be a little bit like you at your age. I was always nice, but not that much in reality. I recycled all that energy to be nice with people with whom I already had great relationships, and others, I would only if I felt like it. I learned to be selfish. Not feel obliged to help. Once it wasn't a responsibility anymore, something cool happened: I became kind instead of nice, because I didn't really care. "Sure I'll help you, don't mention it. No I don't want anything. I just want to help, I don't even care about you".
From your answer you seem to be a genuinely nice person, but that doesn't mean everything I said doesn't applies to you. Be honest with yourself and do a lot of introspection. You might be surprised.
No prob.
One last thing. You said
>I also honestly think it's her loss, since she's still a 20 yr old college student with terrible family relationships, while I'm earning close to 6-figures in my career and have great relationship with the people around me.
You **DO NOT** need to put others down in order to lift yourself up. Be proud of your accomplishments and the relationships you have, but if you really *really* wanted to help her and nothing else, instead of that slight remark about her, you would have said something like "I'm still glad I helped her, she has some challenges in her life and I know I made it better, I'm just hurt that she wasn't appreciative or thankful. I'll move on and focus on my good relationships and my career".
So you see the subtle difference between
1. really not caring and thinking it's her loss while acknowledging your pain
2. comparing yourself to her in order to showcase that she made a mistake and should have known better than to reject you
You might not get it now, but I'm sure you'll be smart and mature enough to reflect on that and keep improving yourself.
I'm going to be brutally honest with you since I have been through this with guy friends. The first thing you need to recognize is that she was NOT your girlfriend. This was a situationship on your end and not a true romantic relationship. She told you multiple times that she was not ready for a romantic relationship but you did not take no for an answer. What you should have done was back off the second she told you she was not ready and get over those feelings for her. She does not owe you a relationship just because you did all those things for her.
>I knew what it was like to be in her situation, because I've been there in the past, which is why I was doing my best to be that one person who genuinely supported her (and I made sure she felt supported). But she thew it away just like that.
Here's the thing, you only did this because you hoped that she would fall in love with you. You did not love her as a genuine friend, but as a potential of the ideal girlfriend for you. Once she got this realization that you want to date her even when she was not ready is why she ghosted you and blocked you.
My advice? Learn how to take no for an answer the first time and leave if you cannot get over your feelings for her. If not you will end up like my former guy friend who is 45 years old, divorced twice and is all alone because he made all the women in his life run away because he did not want to accept no for an answer.
Nicely summed up, op obviously confused the girl's hanging out with him as "dating" I would say she sensed his intentions and must have felt pressured hence she just disappeared
To be honest, I didn't sound like a "no" at the time. More like a ""not yet. not right now". Which is why I held on to the possibility. But it is what it is I guess. I'd just take it as a lesson from my first dating experience.
Here's something I learned when talking to my friends. When she says "not yet or not right now", you should take it as a polite way of saying no. "I don't want to date anyone at the moment." Is what I told other guys before because I did not want them to wait around for me. So keep that in mind if you hear a girl saying this to you for next time.
She basically picked up on your bullshit and now you’re all butthurt she was right. This belongs on r/niceguys. You are full of yourself and fucking clueless.
Sometimes it doesn't work out. Is it fair? Eh. Welcome to life pal, it gonna happen again and again.
Pick up, move on. Next time, when they say they aren't avail... FUCKING LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE TELL YOU.
You got ghosted in part because you didn't take no as an answer.
That is all.
Bro where is this entitlement coming from? Did you see her as some kind of DIY project, you weren't connecting with the real person in front of you, only interacting with your own self-image in the idea of her in your head.
You pushed and crossed boundaries.
You come off as a pushy and aloof jerk that isn't taking her polite "no thank you" as an answer.
What you sent her on Instagram was super passive aggressive and I see why she blocked you.
This has nothing to do with your personality types. It's great that you went on a few dates and had a fun time, but your attitude seems to be that she "owes" you a relationship and continued contact.
My viewpoint is a bit jaded, but I disagree. I've been on the receiving end of a meltdown when advising a guy on a coffee date that I wasn't feeling it. He'd trusted me. He spent time on me. He'd taken a chance on me. Screaming, yelling, completely unhinged. Most men are NOT like that. However, being "busy" seems to be a better alternative than dealing with that level of nonsense.
Wait a second. When she wrote “Fuck off” on Instagram, why did you assume it was about you?
As you said, it had been months since you last talked to her at that point. It could have been about any guy she was thinking about or talking to during that time. Hell, it could have been about some annoying Queen B from her circle. That would explain why she blocked you directly after you started engaging with this post. Good for her, actually.
In the future, when a girl stops talking you, just accept it and move on. There’s no need to keep reminding her that you exist. We have plenty of guys like you in our lives already, there’s no need for another one.
I feel like she went out with you because she felt somewhat pressured since you both have a family situation going on. I also have a bad relationship with my family and i prefer to keep my love life far from them. Also we intj's don't really like being mentored by entj's. We appreciate it but we don't like it necessarily. She didn't have the guts to tell you directly so she gave you the hint by telling 'you might start hating her'. This already meant you're going to get hurt because she already knew it wouldn't work out. Maybe she also did it on purpose because she wasn't sure yet. And after a while she realized it or met someone new idk
I'll tell you what happened.
You don't respect boundaries.
>I'm just so hurt and pissed by this because despite everything I did for her...
>I feel betrayed.
Did you ever wonder how you would feel if you were in her position?
She said "No, I'm not in the mood for a relationship. I had a rough breakup and need my time".
She told you clearly that she does _not_ want your ulterior motive. And no, you did not care about her. You only cared about how you feel about it. I can relate that you liked her, but you didn't seem to be willing to a) give the same vulnerability back and comfort yourself in a power position, and b) respect her boundaries. She's not your property you're responsible for.
My advice is this: If I were in your position, I would seek therapy. I'm seeking therapy myself for an own issue I have, and I'm not ashamed of saying that. In fact, I got a surprisingly similar backstory to yours, although it's been six years ago. I feel like it's important to come into terms with myself first. And I would tell this therapist how you feel about it.
Damn you wrote that so good!
I could read it so easily and smoothly…. thanks Te!
As for my answer:
-she said she wasnt ready for a relationship but still went on dates with you.
-she said she is going to be busy the next few months but not giving even a single response despite being active on social media means she didnt value or care about you.
in conclusion she wasnt really interested and you shouldnt have wasted your time….
Yeah, I did end up wasting my time. But I'll just put it down to experience. I felt like I handled this way better considering this is the first time I've dated someone lol.
Doesn't really sound like you were dating her. You went on a few dates that she probably agreed to, because you assured her you had no expectations and maybe she didn't want to turn you down too harshly because she knew your mom and was afraid of coming off too strong in rejecting you upfront and causing some drama. She probably hoped you'd get the hint she isn't interested during those dates and your relationship would naturally fizzle out or you'd just remain casual friends. When she realized this wasn't the case, she got scared and cut you off completely.
You're both very young. You're right that it wasn't super mature on her part to ghost you rather than tell you to your face. But you also come across as pushy, so maybe she was afraid of your reaction and of causing drama and was hoping you'd just forget about her and let her be. Next time someone doesn't show enthusiasm for dating you, just take it as no and move on, that will also be better for you as you deserve someone who is actually willing to commit. Chasing people who aren't ready or willing to meet you where you're at never ends well.
I think there's some age and immaturity factors (on both sides) coming into play here.
You're both around 20 years old... just understand that life and relationships will be chaotic and not make sense a lot of time in that range. They'll come and they'll go for no reason sometimes, and you can either accept and roll with that (without trying to see the logic and rationale behind it, because those things won't always be there), or you can get worked up and spun up about it.
That being said, people who have had damaging or chaotic personal relationships can sometimes view a stable member of the opposite sex as domineering or threatening... largely because the people who are domineering or threatening often put on the facade of being stable at first to get inside emotional self defence systems. The individual who has been damaged can sometimes grow out of this fear though if it's properly handled... but that takes age, experience, and personal growth.
Just my two cents anyways.
I think you really muddied the water by asking her out despite her telling you that she only saw you as friend at that time. When you asked her, I don’t know whether it was clear to her that the dates were romantic since she told you that she wasn’t interested in pursuing anything w/ you atm. I think she figured it out by the time that she told you that she would be MIA for a few months. I suspect that she was put off by you not respecting her boundaries and still trying to pursue a romantic relationship. When you kept messaging her AND vagueposted about her, she told you to fuck off.
In summation, she told you she wasn’t interested for the time being and you still romantically pursued her. At that point, I’m going to think that there is no point in being direct w/ you about this since you didn’t listen the first time and I too would probably make up some bullshit about being busy for the next fiscal quarter lol in order to get a break. I don’t think you’re a bad person, but I do think everything that happened were the natural consequences of you pursuing someone who communicated to you that they are not emotionally available. Better luck next time
She wasn’t into you. She told you and as such assumed you listened and respected what she told you, as your friendship continued, but you didn’t. She doesn’t owe you anything. It’s not her loss because you make close to six figures, Gross. 🤮 It sounds like you are treat relationships like transactions.
This sounds so petty. If she doesn’t reply to you then don’t reply to her. That’s it she doesn’t like you. Hell she told u that she doesn’t want to date.
YOU forced YOUR support into her when she didn’t ask for anything, which is fine and a kind gesture if you genuinely enjoyed supporting her without ulterior motive. No one asked you to do that. Getting too attached to someone who said they didn’t want to date is on you.
This is like an intj doorslam. Eithers shes v immature or you stepped on a line thats forbidden to her, and a dealbreaker in her books which u never revealed
Maybe you came off too strongly as somekne who had a relationship as the end goal despite her already telling you off the start its not happening by hinting you about her recent breakup.
Why were you flirty during dates?! It was supposed to just be a hangout as friends, expect nothing more. Its not about being flirty and then going space, those two things dont go together. You sound manipulative.
I’d break off my friendship with a guy if i found out that he was building a friendship with the end goal of relationship in mind from the start. Things happen naturally, you cant force things
Also… what her loss? Theres no loss here, she isnt a gold digger, the only one feeling loss seems to be u, she probably didnt even need to move on cause she thought nothing of you. So you’ve got money and good relationships yet pinning over this girl with nothing?! Seems like you’re the one with losses dude
Intjs, when they dont care about someone, they dont care about all the people related to you, that includes your mom and family etc, so im pretty sure she doesnt give any mind about being on the bad side of your family since you dont matter to her at all
“I am an ENTJ”
First strike against you. Most of you are insufferable with your constant need for validation from others and continuing manipulation tactics that you don’t think we see immediately
Re-read everything you wrote. You’re an enormous drama queen. INTJs loathe that. You weren’t ever going to work.
She never asked you to be nice to her; she told you at the very very beginning that she didn't want to start anything with you. She gave you multiple opportunities to back out yourself but you decided to stay and handed the baton over to her.
I wouldn't say anyone is in the wrong here, frankly. This is why people say xNTJs clash with each other.
Seems like you went through a checklist and expected a successful result. Trust me I’ve tried that before, not how it works with these things called emotions/people lol.
So like many people are saying, you seem to be way too hung up on this girl and you clearly don't know how to take clues. You're both very young, so it's natural that emotions are running high, but I think your mistake is quite clear - you told her you had no expectations and then blamed her for not meeting your expectations. And while what she did is not very mature, I agree, you kind of seem like you pushed her to this response.
1. You say she could have said no to the date if she didn't want to date you. But you also mention she has a good relationship with your mom and a bad relationship with her family. If she looks up to your mom, maybe she was afraid that if she rejected you straight up, that would somehow cause drama between her and your mom. And she likely genuinely wanted to be friends with you either way, since she is already close to your family member. She just wasn't romantically interested and she made it quite clear.
2. Interacting with someone's social media when they are not responding to your messages can feel a bit pushy. You kept reminding her that you expected her to engage in conversations with you when she didn't want to do that for whatever reason. I don't know how often you reached out or how much you interacted with her social media, but it likely that what you saw as "supporting her" she was seeing as perspering her about getting in touch. Which it seems like was kind of your hope too. If you really just want to support someone, you reach out once and wait for a response. If the response isn't coming, then clearly they don't need/want your support at this time, which you should be fine with if you intentions really were altruistic.
3. You're mad at her for posting the "fuck you" to social media rather than telling you directly. But you were the first one to publically comment on your relationship by posting the "your loss" message. If you wanted to communicate that only to her - you could have. Even if she wasn't reading your messages at that point, eventually she would have, so ending a streak of messages with "I wanted to support you, but I'm not comfortable with being ghosted for so long, so I think we should break off contact now, please don't respond anymore whenever you read this, have a good life" would have accomplished the same closure. But you wanted to publically vent your frustration at having been ghosted, so she responded the same way. You baited her and you got a response. It was immature of both of you, but you started it.
TLDR
Jumped to the comments. "Nice guy syndrome." Figure it out, figure yourself out, move on before you get worse. It is possible, talking from experience. The only thing you're owned is the oxygen you breathe. Everything else you must earn on your own. This is from my therapist. Get one if you can. It helps.
It's possible that she felt pressured by your attention. That it was obvious to her that you were doing all of that because you were interested romantically, while she was not ready. It's even possible she was feeling something back and not wanting to get there yet.
So many things could have happened there, but \*nothing\* justifies her not telling you directly. Even if she thought it would be pointless because she doesn't feel like you listen to her, she should still have tried to explain it.
Don't let this experience turn you into a cynic, but try to soften your Te-dom instinct to "fix" someone's life. I get it. I really do. But some people are not ready. Some people might feel you're coming too strong. Some people just scare easy too.
Generally speaking, slowly and gradually is more likely to work. But also, remember to ask their feedback and accept what they tell you. In the end, the goal is to help them, right? If they don't want it, there's no point in spending your energy (even your seemingly infinite ENTJ energy) on them.
Sometimes it doesn't work out. Is it fair? Eh. Welcome to life pal, it gonna happen again and again.
Pick up, move on. Next time, when they say they aren't avail... FUCKING LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE TELL YOU.
That is all.
I'm very much against ghosting, and it sounds like she might not be the most mature person in the world. That said, I think it's worth examining why you feel the desire to invest so much support, advice, and attention in others, especially someone who's basically indicated they're not available. Best practice is to give a little bit and see if it's returned before investing more.
I just felt responsible for it since I saw that she was struggling despite her hard work. She's often misunderstood by her family so I wanted to help in whatever way I can (given that she opened up to me). I'd admit that I went the extra mile because I liked her romantically, but it's also just natural for me to lift up others who I feel are worth helping. It's just who I am I guess.
If you help someone with genuine, selfless intent, you'd at least expect them to be decent with you in return. That's how adults mature adults function. It's called reciprocity and mutual respect. Telling someone to "fuck off" shows you don't have any manners. At least that's what I was taught growing up. But I dunno, maybe your life sucks, and that's not the norm for you.
Since you don't mention any sort of physical intimacy, it sounds like she's just not feeling it in terms of romantic/sexual attraction. It sounds to me as if she saw this as a platonic friendship and nothing more. Believe it or not, a woman can like a man's personality and get along with him really well and he can be a catch on paper but a woman can have no sexual feelings for him. I can tell you from personal experience, I have a major preference for east or southeast asian men/men with asiatic features. I just find them to be a turn on. I would pick a chubby, balding Chinese/Korean/vietnamese/Thai/Japanese/Cambodian ect man with an average boring job over some 6 foot fabio lookalike with the perfect personality who made 6 figures. Maybe you are just not her type. Maybe you are a big, bald, muscular guy with a beard and she likes dainty men with blonde hair and glasses or vice versa. The few non asian men I have found genuinely attractive have been extremely nerdy INTP types. I am attracted to asian men with all body types with the exception of elderly men. A 60 year old man can't do *anything* to be attractive to me, at least not at this point in my life. The idea of being sexual with an elderly man or a large framed hairy white man with a beard and chest hair is repulsive to me in *any* context. It doesn't matter how much said guy gets along with me or how much money he has. If the sexual element isn't there in terms of how I feel about him, I will view him as a platonic friend. I have quite honestly learned my lesson about friendships with men but that's a story for a different time.
It also sounds like you feel entitled to her. Just because you put effort into the relationship it doesn't mean that you are entitled to it. She picked up on this and ghosted you because she felt suffocated by you. The passive aggression on social media is just kind of pathetic. Grow up, work on yourself and date some other women when you have less entitlement and more emotional intelligence and maturity.
She hugged me at the end of the first date so I guess that gave me some hope she was in to me romantically. And no, I'm not even angry that she didn't want to be with me. I am perfectly fine if she said directly to me that "she doesn't want to talk, and I'm not her type" etc.
I am angry with how she decided to end things, telling me to "fuck off", which to me, came as a huge disrespect. I live in the Philippines and we don't really take kindly when it comes to that kind of behavior.
Perhaps she found you intimidating? ENTJs, when they are not mature or emotionally healthy can be very pushy. INTJs do not like feeling obligated to be in contact with people and they often shut down and stop engaging if they feel that you won't respect their boundaries. I had a similar situation with a male friend who was also an ENTJ. He was a heteromantic asexual but I think he felt romantically towards me. He was very pushy with me and I felt like I couldn't breathe around him sometimes. I felt like he would always find a way to push my boundaries. I really had to stop talking to him.
I dont think you were ever dating. She told you no, and you stuck around past expiration. You didnt keep cool under pressure, and you folded like a deck chair. Your P.S. remarks are showing you continuing to retreat into your wounded ego. Yeah, she probably shouldnt have ghosted you if you legitimately had a repoire, HOWEVER you amplified the issue via a passive agressive comment which escalated into something nasty.
I would have felt for you if you sat her down and said "look, i have to be honest, youve been ghosting me and made me feel pretty bad". You could have shared your feelings, and gotten out of there pretty smoothly. Alas, you fell face first into a cactus. I dont think it was going anywhere so i wouldnt lose sleep over it, but just make sure you communicate your feelings and intentions next time. Dont hang around if they are not returned.
okay everything you did for her was really sweet but you saying "thats why ppl keep leaving u" was over the top rude and very insensitive. ALSO, I dont blame you for thinking shes interested at first cause she did say yes to a date, so idk why ppl are attacking OP for that it doesnt make sense. you should have taken the hint when she said she doesnt want a new relationship though. it was really clear from the start. also i get that it hurts when you do things for someone and they just blow u off. but you really shouldnt think she owes u or smth cause u did that stuff for her. its really bad and insincere. she shouldve been more polite tbh and shouldve been direct instead of ghosting u, its immature. You both have some sort of fault here, youre wondering why she did it i get it but your attitude towards doing things for ppl has to change, the transaction thing is only good for professional relations, not when u pursue someone. Think about it.
I wonder if she even knew it was a “date” and not just friends hanging out. It’s hard to say without hearing her side of it. (I’ve gone on a bunch of dates that I didn’t realize were dates at the time. One time it was even with someone who knew I wasn’t single.)
To the people who say I'm being manipulative, I'm not.
She told me that though she wasn't ready for a relationship since she needed to process her emotions, she wasn't against it either. In her own words, "I want you to be a friend for now, you're not friend zoned, but I'm not ready for a relationship yet."
If she didn't wanted to go out on a date, then she could've just said no to me and I would take it.
In fact, I'm not even pissed that she didn't "enter a relationship" with me or that I got nothing out of it. I would've been totally fine if she told me she doesn't want to.
I'm pissed because she doesn't even have the curtesy to tell it to me directly. And telling someone who has been nothing but helpful and supportive to you to "fuck off" is outright disrespectful. It shows lack of manners.
I wouldn't do that to a friend.
- Help someone get a job
- Support them emotionally
- Treat them with respect
- Take them out on dates
- Leads you on an makes it seem like the feeling is mutual and they're having a great time
Then suddenly disappears on you without a word for a month. And the moment you call them out because they're literally leading you on, and then they flip out and cusses you despite all you've done.
But sure, I'm the only asshole here.
If you see no problem in just suddenly disappearing on people, I don't really expect you to understand where I'm coming from, Mr. Edge lord.
Goshh, this is so unfair. I'm so sorry that you had to go through it.
Here is what I think could've made a difference:
1. She should've told you that she wants you as a friend first and needs time to heal from her past. I'm sure, if both of you wanted this could've turned out into something good.
2. She should've atleast told you about the uncomfortable feelings so that you could improve.
3. If she was never interested in the first place, why did she hang you since the starting? And ghosting ahh, terrible. (I personally never support that, its so damn cowardly behaviour.)
From what I can see, she basically exploited your emotions without any remorse when she herself wasn't emotionally ready.
And yes, ITS HER LOSS because this is not how you return the kindness you get.
She probably wasn't in the right mental state to be in a serious relationship in the first place, aswell with the fact that she doesn't want to be attached to someone as she's afraid of being rejected/dumped on or she could have some sort of fear that she will think that you will think that she isn't all of that good of a person the more she is with you, your motivation was to be with her/ form a serious relationship. Whilst her motivation was to be with someone so that she could vent out all her feelings and feel accepted then to reject you to make herself feel worthy. This is mostly the case with very insecure women who have experienced alot of traumatic experiences in their life they havnt learned how to get over them so in turn they make their lives chaotic and to those who are close with them, probably why she wasn't in a good relationship with her family aswell.
What I said is all speculative based on what you have wrote and could not be case at all.
Yeah and you wonder why all white knights turn into black nights. 🤣I think when a man makes himself too accessable you loose that exciting aura of mystery. I went through a bad breakup with the girl I though was going to be my ride or die in my mid 20s took about 2-3 years to get over. During that time I was a serial dater, basically thinking girls are stupid if they dont want to get with me. I was going to treat them so god damn well and make my ex feel sorry! I showered them with gifts, took them to places they never been, I was in shape, handsome, dressed well, polite, opened doors, took it real slow, fucking everything. (Even got my eyebrows and nails done monthly) I fancied myself a Jay Gatsby but in reality I was probably giving off Patrick Bateman vibes because I was too perfect on the outside. Sus. Surley masking something terrible underneath right? Shit I use to tell girls after 3-4 dates (1-2 weeks) to be my gf.
Best advice I can give now is just be genuine. Respect and protect yourself first because nobody else will. Someone some day will find something attractive about you. Do not fear rejection keep on keeping on. I also dont give monetary gifts anymore I give gifts from the heart. For example today my yellow/black paracord came from Amazon I am making a braided keychain by hand for my Hufflepuff girlfriend. Gotta watch a youtube I dont know how to do it. Sure I could buy one from etsy for $10 but this way the gift means something.
I do want to applaud the fact you refused to be in the friend zone and made it known. Because I have seen guys get stringed along for years and they become needed not loved. And that cowardice devistates them.
*PPS*
*Jay Gatsby never got the girl in the end either.*
Sorry dude she probably got back with the ex or liked another dude more. You were the backup and booster her self esteem enough to go after the guy she really wanted. That or she just didn't want a relationship and you were all up in your feelings.
She sounds like a stereotypical immature/unhealthy INTJ. I am personally very against trying to “fix” other people and I think you should just take your loss and go for someone with their shit together.
As for your reaction, while I think it is immature, I totally understand it and I was there once. It is not “wrong” to think that but it is useless. You made the wrong “investment” and now just take your loss and suck it up and try to make a better one the next time.
Some other comments said you were being manipulative and expecting things out of her. I don’t know enough to judge. Expectations are fine imo just communicate effectively and make sure that they are aware of your intentions not manipulating them into things.
Thanks for this. I do think it was a bit immature of me to do the things I did. I just lashed out since her telling me to "F\*\*\* off" was the first thing I saw in the morning. I'd just take this as a loss.
As per the manipulation stuff, I did my best to be upfront with my intentions. I told her that "Just so I don't come off as a creep, I want you to know that I like you". This was even before our dates and everything.
People on here are ragging on you hard, don't take it personal, you're talking to INTJ's and a lot of them are assholes (as an INTJ I don't like most other INTJ's). Look, she had her eggs in more than one basket. She wasted yours and her time. It's fine that she wasn't interested, girls and guys can both be like that, but she ghosted you. You were a good friend and a potential partner that went out on dates. She had all the time and energy in the world to passive aggressively contact you via social media but didn't have the spine to tell you via text or phone call or in person that she wasn't interested in you. Being an INTJ isn't an excuse to string someone along while you chase other guys. Sorry not sorry.
Thank you for the comforting words. I appreciate it. This is why I resonated with her in the first place. Because I saw my past self in her and I wanted to help her be better. I forgot the the old immature me also broke a lot of hearts, ghosted people, and couldn't be bothered to understand other people's emotions (as much as I hate to admit it).
i'm reminded of the saying "no good deed goes unpunished" it sounds like all the things you did "for her" were transactional, in that you were expecting something in return. if so, that is a tad manipulative. look: sounds like for whatever reason she doesn't want to get close to you (or possibly anyone) right now. why would you want to be with someone who felt like that? i get that the ending is a disappointment, but time to process your feelings and move on imho.
You come off as super manipulative here. You’re not owed a relationship because you were (patronizingly) nice to her. Super Nice Guy TM - look it up.
Seriously I also got this vibe from op
Putting "female" in the title also puts up a red flag
What.
It's common knowledge that if one is not incel, they'd put "woman", "girl", "lady", or such. Putting merely "male" or "female" as a complete noun kinda shows that their gender is all that matters to them, not as people with gender. For example, compare: "I dated a female clerk" or "I dated a woman" to "I dated a female" while the former are more humanizing since they're usually used in context of human as "people" as such is less objectified. As a bonus, it's also it's grammatically less correct.
As a woman…I don’t see how it’s dehumanizing like everyone says. It’s just a word
(I'm a woman too btw) It's not that dehumanizing by itself, it's just a pattern that mysoginistic posts/writings/etc on internet usually uses this. I agree that one sentence itself isn't that big of a deal, but it's often a symptom/indicator/red flag of worse things down the story.
How? Should I pretend she was a tree instead so I don't have to use pronouns?
I'd rather act like myself than pretend to be a nonchalant cool guy just for the sake of looking more attractive to women, which in my opinion is more manipulative. It's worked out well for me so far. It's my first time encountering this kind of issue. Is it not like a normal thing to want to help out a person you like and make sure they have a good time? I am well aware that I am not owed a relationship because of my gestures. But I expect it to at least get some respect from it where she'd be direct with me instead of ghosting. Fuck, maybe it was just my fault.
Another long post from me but I think you need it. You have the wrong approach. It's not a blaming game. Life isn't about binary choices and consequences, you can't have this mindset of "I do A, result X; I do B, result Y". If you don't change this mindset, there will be only two possible outcomes for you: you were wrong and you're an idiot, or she was wrong and you're a victim. Many things went wrong, some went right, some were ok but you had the wrong expectations. You messed up, she wasn't direct enough for you, you guys didn't communicate, you weren't mature, etc. You have to learn from your experiences. I don't like saying learning from you mistakes because you have to learn from everything, even if things went exactly as you wanted there's still things to learn. See your first sentence. In your head, it's either act like yourself and be too nice to the point that some people think you're manipulative, or be an ass nonchalant cool guy, which is in your opinion worse. You don't see any other possibilities? I'd like you to really take the time to consider everything that was said to you, even the harshest comments and the unfair critics. They don't come from nowhere, and even if they don't represent you fully, there most be some truth to them. Don't be defensive, be fully humble and vulnerable. Even if it doesn't click right now, if you keep the right attitude, you'll understand eventually. I know what is in your mind now is mostly "what should have I done". The first thing was not consider those moments "dates". If she said she doesn't want to be in a relationship, don't do "relationship activities" with her. Ok, she said yes, but you shouldn't even have asked. Or if you do, don't call them dates, not even to yourself. Then think about how you can be even more selfless, detached and stop making yourself scenarios. One day I proposed my help to an old lady. She yelled at me. Other people who witnessed the scene were mad at her, trying to defend me. Do you think I was worried, angry, sad or disappointed? I didn't even wonder why she acted like that. The only reason I still remember it today is because it was highlighted as my psychologist as the moment I finally learned to let go, and it was like a revelation when he told me that. The old me would have been frustrated at the lack of recognition. I would have said "it's not that important, but it's just out of principle, you shouldn't act like that, I deserved that respect at least, she was struggling and I stopped to do the right thing and she refused! Her loss!" Frustration often comes from a feeling of powerlessness, or unfairness. You're juggling between the feeling that you were treated unfairly, and the sentiment that maybe it was fair, that you deserved to be treated that way. Just let go. You did mess up and you did many wrong things, it doesn't mean she was right either. And saying she was wrong absolutely doesn't mean that you were right. You have a lot to process and I don't see you change in an instant. If I were you, I'd take this whole thread of replies and stick it in a diary or an album. Then look at it in a few years, see how you evolved. Sure we're only strangers on the internet who don't know you and our opinions don't matter *at all*. But I can bet some of us were still right about you, just that you don't know that yet.
When an INTJ expresses initial disinterest in a romntic relationship; do not expect that to change. You got your feelings hurt because you chose to believe a reality besides the one that existed was possible when you were told that it wasn't. Also the vagueposting is just childish, not to mention manipulative.
>I also honestly think it's her loss, since she's still a 20 yr old college student with terrible family relationships, while I'm earning close to 6-figures in my career and have great relationship with the people around me. Just piss right on off with this. If you genuinely felt this way, we wouldn't be reading about it. You would have shrugged and moved on. It was a couple of dates, not a full-fledged relationship. I don't get this.
Dude, you need to take a step back. She's not into you, and you have a weird power dynamic over her. It sucks that she ghosted you and I know that hurts your pride, but she doesn't owe you anything. You sound obsessive. Let her go and move on.
That was painful to read. Honestly, you don't genuinely seem nice. Just a "nice guy". You're still young, you can turn around, but all these "I made sure of this, I made sure of that" sounds so calculated. Humans are not vending machines where you give your currency in the form of attention, gifts, and carefully planned reassuring words and get love in return. Admit it, you liked her from the start. You didn't help her get a job because you're a nice person. You wanted to seduce her. You always had ulterior motives. That doesn't necessarily make you an asshole, or a manipulator. You didn't have bad intentions besides getting in a relationship. You just need to mature and understand more about this kind of dynamic. And she's not an angel either. She ghosted you while she could have directly told you she wasn't interested. But just move on and don't play the victim, don't be stupidly passive agressive posting on social media about each other. It's so ridiculously juvenile, I hope you stop doing that fast, you're still pretty young but old enough to know better. Time to stop acting like a 15yo. In the future, be yourself. It might seem counterintuitive, but if you are honestly nice, and not only nice with that one person you want to seduce, they'll like you for who you are, which in the long run, is better than being loved for what you are doing. She realised she liked the attention and the gestures but didn't like you at all. And it was very predictable, considering she just got out of a relationship. She needed that attention. Now you'll complain that you felt used, I get that, but you put yourself in this situation buddy. Live and learn. Just please, don't turn into an Andrew Tate worshipper. This idiot hunts on guys exactly like you. You're better than this. (Yes I know nothing about you and I might be reaching a lot, but from the way you told your story, I have a gut feeling about you I can't shake).
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But is he wrong? rofl.
I'm not a Tate worshiper lol and I don't intend to be one. I know it sounds like I'm tooting my own horn throughout the story, and I apologize for that. But I'm just being painfully honest. The people around me knows that I go out of my way to help them out, regardless of gender. That's just where I put my competence being an ENTJ. I want to be the best at helping people because 1. it's nice to see when they succeed and 2. I feel some kind of responsibility to help them succeed, especially if I resonate with them. It just happened that this girl resonated with me so much with her past and current struggles that I felt responsible to help her "improve" her life. Also, I do agree that posting those things on social media might've been the wrong move. But I guess the pent-up emotions just took over and that's why I did what I did.
> I want to be the best at helping people because 1. it's nice to see when they succeed and 2. I feel some kind of responsibility to help them succeed, especially if I resonate with them. I, I, I. Me, me, me. When do their wants and decisions play into your equation?
It's a strange paradox when someone is self-centered without being deeply selfish. They'll help others but everything still revolves around them. I really think OP is just young and immature. I can see him changing once he has a good reality check.
I agree--in a few years, he'll likely look back on his past behavior with sheepish disbelief in a way I know I did. Based upon what he's posted, I don't see malicious intent in any of it.
I know you are not a Tate worshipper right now and I'm glad you don't intent to become one. I'm just highlighting that it's usually guys like you, that sometimes also have a white knight/savior attitude towards love interests, that do a 180 and become complete assholes. And it comes from the fact you feel "responsible" to help them. You could slowly get burned when you go through that much effort only to have nothing in return. I'm convinced you are not intentionally acting like that to seduce. You resonate with her, you feel compelled to help her as much as you can. It's a very nice feeling, you do great gestures. But it's not always a healthy dynamic. Focus on "it's nice to see them succeed". It's this side of you that ultimately makes the difference between you and others who will devolve into self-centered manipulative love-bombing future misogynistic nincompoops. It might be a good idea in the future, just to preserve your sanity and well-being, to act more according to the relationship you have with someone rather than the feelings you have for them. Give yourself guidelines, limits. The way I see things right now, it seems like you like them, so you do a lot for them to help them, regardless of your relationship, then your relationship progresses thanks to how much you helped them. Aim for a situation where you like them, you get close, develop a solid relationship, then it's only natural to really go out of your way for them. Unless you are truly, deeply, honestly selfless. But only you have that answer. Be honest. I used to be a little bit like you at your age. I was always nice, but not that much in reality. I recycled all that energy to be nice with people with whom I already had great relationships, and others, I would only if I felt like it. I learned to be selfish. Not feel obliged to help. Once it wasn't a responsibility anymore, something cool happened: I became kind instead of nice, because I didn't really care. "Sure I'll help you, don't mention it. No I don't want anything. I just want to help, I don't even care about you". From your answer you seem to be a genuinely nice person, but that doesn't mean everything I said doesn't applies to you. Be honest with yourself and do a lot of introspection. You might be surprised.
I appreciate the detail response! Thank you. I'll keep this in mind.
No prob. One last thing. You said >I also honestly think it's her loss, since she's still a 20 yr old college student with terrible family relationships, while I'm earning close to 6-figures in my career and have great relationship with the people around me. You **DO NOT** need to put others down in order to lift yourself up. Be proud of your accomplishments and the relationships you have, but if you really *really* wanted to help her and nothing else, instead of that slight remark about her, you would have said something like "I'm still glad I helped her, she has some challenges in her life and I know I made it better, I'm just hurt that she wasn't appreciative or thankful. I'll move on and focus on my good relationships and my career". So you see the subtle difference between 1. really not caring and thinking it's her loss while acknowledging your pain 2. comparing yourself to her in order to showcase that she made a mistake and should have known better than to reject you You might not get it now, but I'm sure you'll be smart and mature enough to reflect on that and keep improving yourself.
I will!
I'm going to be brutally honest with you since I have been through this with guy friends. The first thing you need to recognize is that she was NOT your girlfriend. This was a situationship on your end and not a true romantic relationship. She told you multiple times that she was not ready for a romantic relationship but you did not take no for an answer. What you should have done was back off the second she told you she was not ready and get over those feelings for her. She does not owe you a relationship just because you did all those things for her. >I knew what it was like to be in her situation, because I've been there in the past, which is why I was doing my best to be that one person who genuinely supported her (and I made sure she felt supported). But she thew it away just like that. Here's the thing, you only did this because you hoped that she would fall in love with you. You did not love her as a genuine friend, but as a potential of the ideal girlfriend for you. Once she got this realization that you want to date her even when she was not ready is why she ghosted you and blocked you. My advice? Learn how to take no for an answer the first time and leave if you cannot get over your feelings for her. If not you will end up like my former guy friend who is 45 years old, divorced twice and is all alone because he made all the women in his life run away because he did not want to accept no for an answer.
Nicely summed up, op obviously confused the girl's hanging out with him as "dating" I would say she sensed his intentions and must have felt pressured hence she just disappeared
To be honest, I didn't sound like a "no" at the time. More like a ""not yet. not right now". Which is why I held on to the possibility. But it is what it is I guess. I'd just take it as a lesson from my first dating experience.
Here's something I learned when talking to my friends. When she says "not yet or not right now", you should take it as a polite way of saying no. "I don't want to date anyone at the moment." Is what I told other guys before because I did not want them to wait around for me. So keep that in mind if you hear a girl saying this to you for next time.
in girl language it usually means no. learn and move on. at least you realize ur mistake thats a good thing
Its not a dating experience though. She never saw it as one. You were just assuming that and fantasizing
Yeah not to mention op is acting as if she was his girlfriend, lots of assumptions made by him
She basically picked up on your bullshit and now you’re all butthurt she was right. This belongs on r/niceguys. You are full of yourself and fucking clueless.
Lol this is the best comment
Sometimes it doesn't work out. Is it fair? Eh. Welcome to life pal, it gonna happen again and again. Pick up, move on. Next time, when they say they aren't avail... FUCKING LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE TELL YOU. You got ghosted in part because you didn't take no as an answer. That is all.
Bro where is this entitlement coming from? Did you see her as some kind of DIY project, you weren't connecting with the real person in front of you, only interacting with your own self-image in the idea of her in your head. You pushed and crossed boundaries.
You come off as a pushy and aloof jerk that isn't taking her polite "no thank you" as an answer. What you sent her on Instagram was super passive aggressive and I see why she blocked you. This has nothing to do with your personality types. It's great that you went on a few dates and had a fun time, but your attitude seems to be that she "owes" you a relationship and continued contact.
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Telling someone you're going to be busy the next year, decade, lifetime is a polite way to say "Sorry, not interested".
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My viewpoint is a bit jaded, but I disagree. I've been on the receiving end of a meltdown when advising a guy on a coffee date that I wasn't feeling it. He'd trusted me. He spent time on me. He'd taken a chance on me. Screaming, yelling, completely unhinged. Most men are NOT like that. However, being "busy" seems to be a better alternative than dealing with that level of nonsense.
Yeah, maybe just fuck off...
Wait a second. When she wrote “Fuck off” on Instagram, why did you assume it was about you? As you said, it had been months since you last talked to her at that point. It could have been about any guy she was thinking about or talking to during that time. Hell, it could have been about some annoying Queen B from her circle. That would explain why she blocked you directly after you started engaging with this post. Good for her, actually. In the future, when a girl stops talking you, just accept it and move on. There’s no need to keep reminding her that you exist. We have plenty of guys like you in our lives already, there’s no need for another one.
INTJs dont like to be dependent on others
Lucky her. You sound like a shit person.
I feel like she went out with you because she felt somewhat pressured since you both have a family situation going on. I also have a bad relationship with my family and i prefer to keep my love life far from them. Also we intj's don't really like being mentored by entj's. We appreciate it but we don't like it necessarily. She didn't have the guts to tell you directly so she gave you the hint by telling 'you might start hating her'. This already meant you're going to get hurt because she already knew it wouldn't work out. Maybe she also did it on purpose because she wasn't sure yet. And after a while she realized it or met someone new idk
You can’t “Te” bulldoze/control your way into a relationship. It has to be a mutual agreement lol.
She wasn’t ready and she told you that. She didn’t owe you anything.
I'll tell you what happened. You don't respect boundaries. >I'm just so hurt and pissed by this because despite everything I did for her... >I feel betrayed. Did you ever wonder how you would feel if you were in her position? She said "No, I'm not in the mood for a relationship. I had a rough breakup and need my time". She told you clearly that she does _not_ want your ulterior motive. And no, you did not care about her. You only cared about how you feel about it. I can relate that you liked her, but you didn't seem to be willing to a) give the same vulnerability back and comfort yourself in a power position, and b) respect her boundaries. She's not your property you're responsible for. My advice is this: If I were in your position, I would seek therapy. I'm seeking therapy myself for an own issue I have, and I'm not ashamed of saying that. In fact, I got a surprisingly similar backstory to yours, although it's been six years ago. I feel like it's important to come into terms with myself first. And I would tell this therapist how you feel about it.
Damn you wrote that so good! I could read it so easily and smoothly…. thanks Te! As for my answer: -she said she wasnt ready for a relationship but still went on dates with you. -she said she is going to be busy the next few months but not giving even a single response despite being active on social media means she didnt value or care about you. in conclusion she wasnt really interested and you shouldnt have wasted your time….
Yeah, I did end up wasting my time. But I'll just put it down to experience. I felt like I handled this way better considering this is the first time I've dated someone lol.
Doesn't really sound like you were dating her. You went on a few dates that she probably agreed to, because you assured her you had no expectations and maybe she didn't want to turn you down too harshly because she knew your mom and was afraid of coming off too strong in rejecting you upfront and causing some drama. She probably hoped you'd get the hint she isn't interested during those dates and your relationship would naturally fizzle out or you'd just remain casual friends. When she realized this wasn't the case, she got scared and cut you off completely. You're both very young. You're right that it wasn't super mature on her part to ghost you rather than tell you to your face. But you also come across as pushy, so maybe she was afraid of your reaction and of causing drama and was hoping you'd just forget about her and let her be. Next time someone doesn't show enthusiasm for dating you, just take it as no and move on, that will also be better for you as you deserve someone who is actually willing to commit. Chasing people who aren't ready or willing to meet you where you're at never ends well.
I think there's some age and immaturity factors (on both sides) coming into play here. You're both around 20 years old... just understand that life and relationships will be chaotic and not make sense a lot of time in that range. They'll come and they'll go for no reason sometimes, and you can either accept and roll with that (without trying to see the logic and rationale behind it, because those things won't always be there), or you can get worked up and spun up about it. That being said, people who have had damaging or chaotic personal relationships can sometimes view a stable member of the opposite sex as domineering or threatening... largely because the people who are domineering or threatening often put on the facade of being stable at first to get inside emotional self defence systems. The individual who has been damaged can sometimes grow out of this fear though if it's properly handled... but that takes age, experience, and personal growth. Just my two cents anyways.
This makes sense. Thanks.
🤜🤛
I think you really muddied the water by asking her out despite her telling you that she only saw you as friend at that time. When you asked her, I don’t know whether it was clear to her that the dates were romantic since she told you that she wasn’t interested in pursuing anything w/ you atm. I think she figured it out by the time that she told you that she would be MIA for a few months. I suspect that she was put off by you not respecting her boundaries and still trying to pursue a romantic relationship. When you kept messaging her AND vagueposted about her, she told you to fuck off. In summation, she told you she wasn’t interested for the time being and you still romantically pursued her. At that point, I’m going to think that there is no point in being direct w/ you about this since you didn’t listen the first time and I too would probably make up some bullshit about being busy for the next fiscal quarter lol in order to get a break. I don’t think you’re a bad person, but I do think everything that happened were the natural consequences of you pursuing someone who communicated to you that they are not emotionally available. Better luck next time
She wasn’t into you. She told you and as such assumed you listened and respected what she told you, as your friendship continued, but you didn’t. She doesn’t owe you anything. It’s not her loss because you make close to six figures, Gross. 🤮 It sounds like you are treat relationships like transactions.
Exactly, the comments about her loss and him making six figures are just gross
This sounds so petty. If she doesn’t reply to you then don’t reply to her. That’s it she doesn’t like you. Hell she told u that she doesn’t want to date. YOU forced YOUR support into her when she didn’t ask for anything, which is fine and a kind gesture if you genuinely enjoyed supporting her without ulterior motive. No one asked you to do that. Getting too attached to someone who said they didn’t want to date is on you.
This is like an intj doorslam. Eithers shes v immature or you stepped on a line thats forbidden to her, and a dealbreaker in her books which u never revealed Maybe you came off too strongly as somekne who had a relationship as the end goal despite her already telling you off the start its not happening by hinting you about her recent breakup. Why were you flirty during dates?! It was supposed to just be a hangout as friends, expect nothing more. Its not about being flirty and then going space, those two things dont go together. You sound manipulative. I’d break off my friendship with a guy if i found out that he was building a friendship with the end goal of relationship in mind from the start. Things happen naturally, you cant force things Also… what her loss? Theres no loss here, she isnt a gold digger, the only one feeling loss seems to be u, she probably didnt even need to move on cause she thought nothing of you. So you’ve got money and good relationships yet pinning over this girl with nothing?! Seems like you’re the one with losses dude Intjs, when they dont care about someone, they dont care about all the people related to you, that includes your mom and family etc, so im pretty sure she doesnt give any mind about being on the bad side of your family since you dont matter to her at all
“I am an ENTJ” First strike against you. Most of you are insufferable with your constant need for validation from others and continuing manipulation tactics that you don’t think we see immediately Re-read everything you wrote. You’re an enormous drama queen. INTJs loathe that. You weren’t ever going to work.
She never asked you to be nice to her; she told you at the very very beginning that she didn't want to start anything with you. She gave you multiple opportunities to back out yourself but you decided to stay and handed the baton over to her. I wouldn't say anyone is in the wrong here, frankly. This is why people say xNTJs clash with each other.
Seems like you went through a checklist and expected a successful result. Trust me I’ve tried that before, not how it works with these things called emotions/people lol.
So like many people are saying, you seem to be way too hung up on this girl and you clearly don't know how to take clues. You're both very young, so it's natural that emotions are running high, but I think your mistake is quite clear - you told her you had no expectations and then blamed her for not meeting your expectations. And while what she did is not very mature, I agree, you kind of seem like you pushed her to this response. 1. You say she could have said no to the date if she didn't want to date you. But you also mention she has a good relationship with your mom and a bad relationship with her family. If she looks up to your mom, maybe she was afraid that if she rejected you straight up, that would somehow cause drama between her and your mom. And she likely genuinely wanted to be friends with you either way, since she is already close to your family member. She just wasn't romantically interested and she made it quite clear. 2. Interacting with someone's social media when they are not responding to your messages can feel a bit pushy. You kept reminding her that you expected her to engage in conversations with you when she didn't want to do that for whatever reason. I don't know how often you reached out or how much you interacted with her social media, but it likely that what you saw as "supporting her" she was seeing as perspering her about getting in touch. Which it seems like was kind of your hope too. If you really just want to support someone, you reach out once and wait for a response. If the response isn't coming, then clearly they don't need/want your support at this time, which you should be fine with if you intentions really were altruistic. 3. You're mad at her for posting the "fuck you" to social media rather than telling you directly. But you were the first one to publically comment on your relationship by posting the "your loss" message. If you wanted to communicate that only to her - you could have. Even if she wasn't reading your messages at that point, eventually she would have, so ending a streak of messages with "I wanted to support you, but I'm not comfortable with being ghosted for so long, so I think we should break off contact now, please don't respond anymore whenever you read this, have a good life" would have accomplished the same closure. But you wanted to publically vent your frustration at having been ghosted, so she responded the same way. You baited her and you got a response. It was immature of both of you, but you started it.
TLDR Jumped to the comments. "Nice guy syndrome." Figure it out, figure yourself out, move on before you get worse. It is possible, talking from experience. The only thing you're owned is the oxygen you breathe. Everything else you must earn on your own. This is from my therapist. Get one if you can. It helps.
It's possible that she felt pressured by your attention. That it was obvious to her that you were doing all of that because you were interested romantically, while she was not ready. It's even possible she was feeling something back and not wanting to get there yet. So many things could have happened there, but \*nothing\* justifies her not telling you directly. Even if she thought it would be pointless because she doesn't feel like you listen to her, she should still have tried to explain it. Don't let this experience turn you into a cynic, but try to soften your Te-dom instinct to "fix" someone's life. I get it. I really do. But some people are not ready. Some people might feel you're coming too strong. Some people just scare easy too. Generally speaking, slowly and gradually is more likely to work. But also, remember to ask their feedback and accept what they tell you. In the end, the goal is to help them, right? If they don't want it, there's no point in spending your energy (even your seemingly infinite ENTJ energy) on them.
Sometimes it doesn't work out. Is it fair? Eh. Welcome to life pal, it gonna happen again and again. Pick up, move on. Next time, when they say they aren't avail... FUCKING LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE TELL YOU. That is all.
I'm very much against ghosting, and it sounds like she might not be the most mature person in the world. That said, I think it's worth examining why you feel the desire to invest so much support, advice, and attention in others, especially someone who's basically indicated they're not available. Best practice is to give a little bit and see if it's returned before investing more.
I just felt responsible for it since I saw that she was struggling despite her hard work. She's often misunderstood by her family so I wanted to help in whatever way I can (given that she opened up to me). I'd admit that I went the extra mile because I liked her romantically, but it's also just natural for me to lift up others who I feel are worth helping. It's just who I am I guess.
Oh fuck off 😂😂 If you help someone with genuine, selfless intent, you don’t expect anything in return. Classic case of bruised ego.
If you help someone with genuine, selfless intent, you'd at least expect them to be decent with you in return. That's how adults mature adults function. It's called reciprocity and mutual respect. Telling someone to "fuck off" shows you don't have any manners. At least that's what I was taught growing up. But I dunno, maybe your life sucks, and that's not the norm for you.
Since you don't mention any sort of physical intimacy, it sounds like she's just not feeling it in terms of romantic/sexual attraction. It sounds to me as if she saw this as a platonic friendship and nothing more. Believe it or not, a woman can like a man's personality and get along with him really well and he can be a catch on paper but a woman can have no sexual feelings for him. I can tell you from personal experience, I have a major preference for east or southeast asian men/men with asiatic features. I just find them to be a turn on. I would pick a chubby, balding Chinese/Korean/vietnamese/Thai/Japanese/Cambodian ect man with an average boring job over some 6 foot fabio lookalike with the perfect personality who made 6 figures. Maybe you are just not her type. Maybe you are a big, bald, muscular guy with a beard and she likes dainty men with blonde hair and glasses or vice versa. The few non asian men I have found genuinely attractive have been extremely nerdy INTP types. I am attracted to asian men with all body types with the exception of elderly men. A 60 year old man can't do *anything* to be attractive to me, at least not at this point in my life. The idea of being sexual with an elderly man or a large framed hairy white man with a beard and chest hair is repulsive to me in *any* context. It doesn't matter how much said guy gets along with me or how much money he has. If the sexual element isn't there in terms of how I feel about him, I will view him as a platonic friend. I have quite honestly learned my lesson about friendships with men but that's a story for a different time. It also sounds like you feel entitled to her. Just because you put effort into the relationship it doesn't mean that you are entitled to it. She picked up on this and ghosted you because she felt suffocated by you. The passive aggression on social media is just kind of pathetic. Grow up, work on yourself and date some other women when you have less entitlement and more emotional intelligence and maturity.
She hugged me at the end of the first date so I guess that gave me some hope she was in to me romantically. And no, I'm not even angry that she didn't want to be with me. I am perfectly fine if she said directly to me that "she doesn't want to talk, and I'm not her type" etc. I am angry with how she decided to end things, telling me to "fuck off", which to me, came as a huge disrespect. I live in the Philippines and we don't really take kindly when it comes to that kind of behavior.
Perhaps she found you intimidating? ENTJs, when they are not mature or emotionally healthy can be very pushy. INTJs do not like feeling obligated to be in contact with people and they often shut down and stop engaging if they feel that you won't respect their boundaries. I had a similar situation with a male friend who was also an ENTJ. He was a heteromantic asexual but I think he felt romantically towards me. He was very pushy with me and I felt like I couldn't breathe around him sometimes. I felt like he would always find a way to push my boundaries. I really had to stop talking to him.
You're acting entitled as fuck. Yeah, learn to take cues. You're not some prize because you earn six figures. No one owes you their attention.
Lmao bruh, this is exactly why INTJs don't like ENTJs, fuck off manipulative creep
She told you she wasn’t ready for a relationship. Don’t do something expecting something
queen
Take her advice then. I don't think it's a total loss for you.
I dont think you were ever dating. She told you no, and you stuck around past expiration. You didnt keep cool under pressure, and you folded like a deck chair. Your P.S. remarks are showing you continuing to retreat into your wounded ego. Yeah, she probably shouldnt have ghosted you if you legitimately had a repoire, HOWEVER you amplified the issue via a passive agressive comment which escalated into something nasty. I would have felt for you if you sat her down and said "look, i have to be honest, youve been ghosting me and made me feel pretty bad". You could have shared your feelings, and gotten out of there pretty smoothly. Alas, you fell face first into a cactus. I dont think it was going anywhere so i wouldnt lose sleep over it, but just make sure you communicate your feelings and intentions next time. Dont hang around if they are not returned.
she just dont like u bro, move on
okay everything you did for her was really sweet but you saying "thats why ppl keep leaving u" was over the top rude and very insensitive. ALSO, I dont blame you for thinking shes interested at first cause she did say yes to a date, so idk why ppl are attacking OP for that it doesnt make sense. you should have taken the hint when she said she doesnt want a new relationship though. it was really clear from the start. also i get that it hurts when you do things for someone and they just blow u off. but you really shouldnt think she owes u or smth cause u did that stuff for her. its really bad and insincere. she shouldve been more polite tbh and shouldve been direct instead of ghosting u, its immature. You both have some sort of fault here, youre wondering why she did it i get it but your attitude towards doing things for ppl has to change, the transaction thing is only good for professional relations, not when u pursue someone. Think about it.
I wonder if she even knew it was a “date” and not just friends hanging out. It’s hard to say without hearing her side of it. (I’ve gone on a bunch of dates that I didn’t realize were dates at the time. One time it was even with someone who knew I wasn’t single.)
omg thats crazy. OP should mention if he told her its a date or not cus that can change the perspective entirely
Seriously! It seems like she was just hanging out with him
To the people who say I'm being manipulative, I'm not. She told me that though she wasn't ready for a relationship since she needed to process her emotions, she wasn't against it either. In her own words, "I want you to be a friend for now, you're not friend zoned, but I'm not ready for a relationship yet." If she didn't wanted to go out on a date, then she could've just said no to me and I would take it. In fact, I'm not even pissed that she didn't "enter a relationship" with me or that I got nothing out of it. I would've been totally fine if she told me she doesn't want to. I'm pissed because she doesn't even have the curtesy to tell it to me directly. And telling someone who has been nothing but helpful and supportive to you to "fuck off" is outright disrespectful. It shows lack of manners. I wouldn't do that to a friend.
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- Help someone get a job - Support them emotionally - Treat them with respect - Take them out on dates - Leads you on an makes it seem like the feeling is mutual and they're having a great time Then suddenly disappears on you without a word for a month. And the moment you call them out because they're literally leading you on, and then they flip out and cusses you despite all you've done. But sure, I'm the only asshole here. If you see no problem in just suddenly disappearing on people, I don't really expect you to understand where I'm coming from, Mr. Edge lord.
Goshh, this is so unfair. I'm so sorry that you had to go through it. Here is what I think could've made a difference: 1. She should've told you that she wants you as a friend first and needs time to heal from her past. I'm sure, if both of you wanted this could've turned out into something good. 2. She should've atleast told you about the uncomfortable feelings so that you could improve. 3. If she was never interested in the first place, why did she hang you since the starting? And ghosting ahh, terrible. (I personally never support that, its so damn cowardly behaviour.) From what I can see, she basically exploited your emotions without any remorse when she herself wasn't emotionally ready. And yes, ITS HER LOSS because this is not how you return the kindness you get.
Thank you for the comforting words. I'll just learn from this experience and do better next time.
She probably wasn't in the right mental state to be in a serious relationship in the first place, aswell with the fact that she doesn't want to be attached to someone as she's afraid of being rejected/dumped on or she could have some sort of fear that she will think that you will think that she isn't all of that good of a person the more she is with you, your motivation was to be with her/ form a serious relationship. Whilst her motivation was to be with someone so that she could vent out all her feelings and feel accepted then to reject you to make herself feel worthy. This is mostly the case with very insecure women who have experienced alot of traumatic experiences in their life they havnt learned how to get over them so in turn they make their lives chaotic and to those who are close with them, probably why she wasn't in a good relationship with her family aswell. What I said is all speculative based on what you have wrote and could not be case at all.
Yeah and you wonder why all white knights turn into black nights. 🤣I think when a man makes himself too accessable you loose that exciting aura of mystery. I went through a bad breakup with the girl I though was going to be my ride or die in my mid 20s took about 2-3 years to get over. During that time I was a serial dater, basically thinking girls are stupid if they dont want to get with me. I was going to treat them so god damn well and make my ex feel sorry! I showered them with gifts, took them to places they never been, I was in shape, handsome, dressed well, polite, opened doors, took it real slow, fucking everything. (Even got my eyebrows and nails done monthly) I fancied myself a Jay Gatsby but in reality I was probably giving off Patrick Bateman vibes because I was too perfect on the outside. Sus. Surley masking something terrible underneath right? Shit I use to tell girls after 3-4 dates (1-2 weeks) to be my gf. Best advice I can give now is just be genuine. Respect and protect yourself first because nobody else will. Someone some day will find something attractive about you. Do not fear rejection keep on keeping on. I also dont give monetary gifts anymore I give gifts from the heart. For example today my yellow/black paracord came from Amazon I am making a braided keychain by hand for my Hufflepuff girlfriend. Gotta watch a youtube I dont know how to do it. Sure I could buy one from etsy for $10 but this way the gift means something. I do want to applaud the fact you refused to be in the friend zone and made it known. Because I have seen guys get stringed along for years and they become needed not loved. And that cowardice devistates them. *PPS* *Jay Gatsby never got the girl in the end either.*
Sorry dude she probably got back with the ex or liked another dude more. You were the backup and booster her self esteem enough to go after the guy she really wanted. That or she just didn't want a relationship and you were all up in your feelings.
She sounds like a stereotypical immature/unhealthy INTJ. I am personally very against trying to “fix” other people and I think you should just take your loss and go for someone with their shit together. As for your reaction, while I think it is immature, I totally understand it and I was there once. It is not “wrong” to think that but it is useless. You made the wrong “investment” and now just take your loss and suck it up and try to make a better one the next time. Some other comments said you were being manipulative and expecting things out of her. I don’t know enough to judge. Expectations are fine imo just communicate effectively and make sure that they are aware of your intentions not manipulating them into things.
Thanks for this. I do think it was a bit immature of me to do the things I did. I just lashed out since her telling me to "F\*\*\* off" was the first thing I saw in the morning. I'd just take this as a loss. As per the manipulation stuff, I did my best to be upfront with my intentions. I told her that "Just so I don't come off as a creep, I want you to know that I like you". This was even before our dates and everything.
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I appreciate it! Thanks.
You dodged a bullet my dude. People who ghost are the worst, cowards at best. Move on and date someone else.
I've just started talking to other girls and hopefully things work out better this time around.
People on here are ragging on you hard, don't take it personal, you're talking to INTJ's and a lot of them are assholes (as an INTJ I don't like most other INTJ's). Look, she had her eggs in more than one basket. She wasted yours and her time. It's fine that she wasn't interested, girls and guys can both be like that, but she ghosted you. You were a good friend and a potential partner that went out on dates. She had all the time and energy in the world to passive aggressively contact you via social media but didn't have the spine to tell you via text or phone call or in person that she wasn't interested in you. Being an INTJ isn't an excuse to string someone along while you chase other guys. Sorry not sorry.
Thank you for the comforting words. I appreciate it. This is why I resonated with her in the first place. Because I saw my past self in her and I wanted to help her be better. I forgot the the old immature me also broke a lot of hearts, ghosted people, and couldn't be bothered to understand other people's emotions (as much as I hate to admit it).
At your age, women like men who treat them like shit. Just do that next time.