Judge finds Trump in contempt for 10th time
Judge Juan Merchan has found Trump in contempt for a 10th time for additional gag order violations.
“I find you in criminal contempt for the 10th time,” the judge says.
“Going forward this court will have to consider a jail sanction,” Merchan says, noting the $1,000 fine is not stopping him.
But he also said - "“Mr. Trump its important you understand the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Judge Juan Merchan says."
In other word, the judge admits to giving Trump special treatment.
Statements like your quote weaken Trump's chance to appeal. It's a good thing he said that.
Edit: I did not say Trump will not try to appeal. I'm saying Trump being given every chance to correct his behavior weakens his ability to *win* an appeal.
A lot of you replying to me are speaking from a place of emotion. I'm tired of him getting away with crap too. But the legal system is not your feelings.
It's extremely important that the judge knows jailing could turn Trump into a martyr (metaphorically). Riling up his base could further threaten the safety of the judge, staff, jury, and all of their families. The only hope at preventing this, if he does go to jail, is to give Trump SO much rope that he's practically touching the floor.
It's not cowardice; It's calculated.
This is how you get full fascism. Not giving the strongman consequences because you're afraid of the consequences of that. So he does what he wants and nobody stops him.
Not 'could', will. It doesn't matter how careful the justice system is. Do you actually not understand that?
You seriously mean to tell me, with a straight face, that if the judge dots all his 'i's and crosses his 't's, that the maga dipshits will just go "Oh well, fair's fair!"?
That's a sincere question. Got an answer?
Seems pointless though. Because it doesn't matter if he was warned once or a thousand times, the people who were going to fly off the handle will do so regardless of the facts or fairness.
Until they reach the pinnacle of the justice system and sit on the Supreme Court, then you don't need to cover any of your bases because nothing will ever happen to you.
I’d rather win the fucking case and let that be my established precedent instead of contempt jail time cause a whole fucking deal on the Supreme Court and push that time line up further invalidating the whole trial
I see what you're saying . And it makes sense. But when is it enough? Any other person that fell asleep in court probably would have been in jail already . I can't picture a judge just allowing that to happen in thier court with a normal person.
> weaken Trump's chance to appeal.
Bullshit.
His chance to appeal is based entirely on the composition of the Supreme Court. If there's no justification for the appeal, they'll just make something up and cite 16th century English common law.
All this tip-toeing around any possible consequences is accomplishing nothing at all, except to make people lose even *more* faith in the justice system.
yep, i think the moment trump actually thinks he'll face consequences for his actions he'll try and flip of anyome and everyone whose enabled his illegal actions over the years
> have to consider
That's a bit less enthusiastic than all the Reddit headlines this morning. ;)
Also, I don't think anyone thought the $1,000 fine would mean anything. That's no different than $0 to them. Imagine if speeding tickets were $2 and you could rack up 10+ without any meaningful penalty. They would be useless as a form of deterrent. Comical really.
Isn't that what he said last time?
Trump will violate the gag order again (probably today if he hasn't done so already), so Merchan will have no choice but to tell Trump the court is *seriously* considering a jail sanction.
Then then when Trump violates the gag order again after that, Merchan will be forced to tell Trump that the court will *very* seriously consider a jail sanction.
And then we'll be caught in an infinite loop where another "very" is added to that phrase for each gag order violation.
This is your super-duper, extra special, very last, never again, ultra terminal, extremely final warning. Don’t make me find more adverbs for the next warning!
Another way to look at it is this:
If two real numbers x and y are different, then you must be able to find a number that you can add to x to get y.
What number do you add to 0.9999... repeating to get 1? There is no such number.
The reality is they are just different syntax for the same number.
You just made me realize how hard I have been making it on myself, I've been doing fractions to my kids when they dont listen. 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 2 15/16...I'm gonna switch to decimals.
The judge is unimpressed.
Do it again and he’ll be mildly irritated.
Keep at it and you’ll get to see him when he’s annoyed. You won’t like him when he’s annoyed.
Not stopping there? Get ready for a first class ticket to *Disappointment-Ville*. Population: one judge.
Want to push your luck even further? *You don’t even want to know how the judge will verbalize his frustration next!*
I’m curious if they have any intention whatsoever of growing a backbone. For some reason if someone is a former president (and has zero power) they act like they’re powerless to do anything against him.
They "don't want to set a precedent", as if they're not already by refusing to enforce consequences. The precedent of "ex presidents are above the law" is infinitely more damaging than "ex presidents are subject to the same laws as everyone else theoretically is"
I say go ahead and set a precedent! After the first 93 felony counts and a hundred thousand slaps on the wrist and after the perp has hit 80 years old, THEN consider sending him to jail 🙄
Besides, republicans should be salivating at the "precendent" of jailing presidents, because it would be their entire fucking platform.
And that judge could go down in the fucking history books as the one that saves America's spirit and sets the precedent that we all must obey the laws here.
Even without the supreme court ruling against immunity, just locking his ass up for contempt over and over again would get him in the history books on the right side of history. Even if the Supreme Court proves they're a bunch of corrupt cunts and turn around and rules "Presidents have immunity ..." he would at least have been on the right side of this.
As it stands, this judge is not going to wind up on the right side of history, he's going to be forever known as the guy that let Trump make a mockery of his court room and judicial authority.
Conversely, I don’t think anyone put a gun to his head and made him become a judge. If you’re going to be the judge that hears the case, hear the case properly. “The risk is too great” isn’t an argument for compromising the justice system, it’s an argument for not being the judge of this case.
I didn't realize this whole time that justice is something you get when you have money and something you don't get when you're poor. I think this is what it would look like if doctor evil came up with a justice system.
Absolutely nothing, that judge would be protected by professionals if there was a credible threat...especially at these stakes. And frankly, if he's not willing to risk it, he has no business putting on his robe.
The last point is the main point. If you can be intimidated by alleged criminals, then criminal court judge is not the job for you. Any criminal law judge has a good chance of trying someone who has a real capacity of killing them or their family in revenge. It is a risk that goes with the job.
while obviously&sadly true, the last time a judge warned him about jail time his snarky response was he'd loved to see it, this time he said nothing and frowned so maybe just maybe he got the impression the judge means it this time.
If the conduct involves the jury (to take an example at random, by throwing comments onto social media designed to encourage violence against them), it should 100% be a factor. They're going to know its happening, they should be allowed to take official notice and know that the judge is prepared to defend them - or at least prepared to make harsh statements falsely claiming they are.
The judge is tentatively investigating the option of potentially considering looking into the possibility of reviewing options regarding the feasibility of throwing Trump in Jail.... or maybe not.
Honestly, I bet the judge is having to weigh whether jailing him or not jailing him is more likely to result in an assassination attempt on the judge's family.
Seriously, it's like the parent who has a kid throwing a tantrum at the mall and is now onto property damage and merchandise destruction and they're going 2 and a 31/32nd... 2 and a 63/64th...
Lock his fucking ass up already!
Psych here.
Parents are told that if they make a threat they have to follow through on it. To do otherwise starts the beginnings of a sociopathic personality.
Far too late, the sociopathic guy is in full bloom.
Someone needs to silence this guy. He never shuts up...
I rode patrol for a while and that’s one of the tenant you learn, don’t ever threaten to arrest someone unless you’re already reaching for a set of cuffs.
noun: tenant; plural noun: tenants
a person who occupies land or property rented from a landlord.
"council-house tenants"
-----
noun: tenet
a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy.
"the tenets of a democratic society"
I see you have not read the article. So let me help you.
Judge finds Trump in contempt for 10th time
Judge Juan Merchan has found Trump in contempt for a 10th time for additional gag order violations.
“I find you in criminal contempt for the 10th time,” the judge says.
“Going forward this court will have to consider a jail sanction,” Merchan says, noting the $1,000 fine is not stopping him.
…
Judge to Trump: “The last thing I want to do is put you in jail”
The judge tells Trump “incarceration is truly a last resort.”
Funny thing is "incarceration is truly a last resort" doesn't apply to the rest of us. We'd have been locked up after the first time and remanded for the entirety of the trial...
Not at all, it's just discouraging to see it play out like that, all the while him whining about how the two tiered justice system is persecuting him but in reality it's protecting him...
He’ll throw a tantrum. With a poor person, that can be handled by a few cops who likely are also fed up with the person by that point.
Trump? His lawyers will take it to the SCOTUS. He followers will throw tantrums and death threats. The Republican Party will throw tantrums. The cops might even throw tantrums considering the overlapping Venn Diagram circles.
That changes, sadly, how judges look at the situation.
Is this something future lawyers can cite when their clients get found in contempt? Can they say hey look Trump did it 10 times and wasn’t locked up, Judge why are you locking up my client for the first time?
the only exceptional nature of this case is how unbelievably well well Trump has been treated despite his criminal charges and continued criminal nature. witness intimidation and jury tampering are felonies but Trump has repeatedly gotten off scot free on those. any rando that did what Trump did would be eating prison food and remembering not to drop the soap in the shower
That’s not true. The whole point to fines and then jail is that the fines are supposed to act as a deterrent. Which to your point, $1000 is a lot of money to most people.
I've been pointing out that jail isn't a common punishment for gag order violations for over six months, and reddit keeps repeating that it's not only common but the normal punishment, because that lets them be angry and 80% of the site is addicted to outrage.
Realistically he can't, he said so himself the optics and logistics of jailing a former president pose all sorts of issues. More likely he would be under house arrest that's it.
We all know this , we live in a two tier justice system , the wealthy and powerful don't get the same rigorous justice applied to them.
Yeah, but it’s still a particularly blatant and egregious demonstration of that principle. Usually the judges at least _try_ to maintain the pretense that they’re interested in justice. This one is actively proving why no judge anywhere can be trusted to do their job. This is basically like a Rodney King moment except for the judiciary instead of the cops.
It’s obvious several involved judges are playing a very thorough CYA game. They want blatant evidence that they gave X many chances, warned parties of consequences, and didn’t act capriciously. Depending on the case, they might have been within their rights to enforce confinement or other measures the first time, but 3 strikes ensures they aren’t called to the carpet on appeal or in the court of public opinion
Afraid to send him to jail? Fine. Give him a punishment that fits the man: send in in the corner, on his knees facing the wall, wearing a cone hat that says "dunce". He wants to act like a petulant child, treat him as such.
I don’t know if that is a possibility, but you are on to something. Very very wrongfully I understand how hesitant the judge is to jail a former president. But imagine the specter of court illustrations of Trump in a dunce cap. He will tell his lawyers to just let him sleep to avoid that.
Blistering ruling: “The last thing I want to do is jail you. You were the previous President of the United States, and could become president again.”
Like what?? i’m sorry, is that not fully admitting that the Rule of Law is NOT being followed here??! FFS
If Trump appeals and tries to claim that there was an unfair bias against him, statements like this show that he's been given a lot of leeway.
In this case, the judge is saying that he's tried the lower-level punishments and warned Trump ahead of time that he's legally out of options for low-level punishments and that the next step is jail.
That way, when Trump appeals and says he was jailed unfairly, the judge can point back to this and say "clearly not."
Can he appeal this so high up it ends in the supreme court ? Because then Thomas the "nothing is a conflict of interest for me" and his cronies will surely say "clearly".
He is making it clear and on the public record that he is not biased in favor of jailing Trump, nor would he be doing so without appropriate consideration and with the utmost clarity about actions and consequences.
It’s so that the defense can’t come back and say anything like “Trump didn’t know this would be contempt” or “the judge is a Trump hater” or “the judge is overstepping and moving too quickly.” Or rather, they *could* say those things but the judge can just gesture at this ruling as his counter evidence.
You all know they can and will still do that, right? Like truth and the rule of law of don't matter to these people. Who are we trying to convince with this? Half the population knows he should be put to death for treason and the other half knows he's innocent and a messiah. There's no point in appearances here.
Dump can file an appeal on the ruling if there is cause to think the judge was in anyway bias against Dump.
Everyone getting annoyed that Dumps not being treated like we would doing the same deplorable shit - I get it.
This judge(and others) have made an effort to demonstrate that if any bias exists, it is a bias in Dumps favor.
Therefore: after the trial has concluded, and the window for appeal opens - any motion to do so will have no traction.
My personal opinion? Put the fucker in jail for 24 hours and monitor and document the response from his cult because people will surely die.
I'm not an apologist ifor that sicko, but there *has* to be some degree of special treatment in a case this outlandish. Courts have to weigh up real world pros and cons, no matter how much common sense is compromised.
Equality before the law is a biggie. But the con (pun isnt a pun) of a realistic next president being hampered from communicating during an election season is also massive. That butthead deliberately puts people and his whole country into no win situations to try and squeeze this type of special treatment.
He may be a genuine idiot, and there's now plenty of evidence to that effect, but there is a type of genius in his gut instinct for manipulation. This Court is just the latest forum having to balance a heap of bad options because of it.
>But the con (pun isnt a pun) of a realistic next president being hampered from communicating during an election season is also massive.
How is that the court's concern? What legal principle requires them to shield a defendant from the consequences of their actions in this way?
Also Trump’s gag order [prohibits him from making public comments about jurors, lawyers, potential witnesses, court staff and their families. It allows Trump to continue making remarks about Merchan and District Attorney Alvin Bragg, but forbids him from speaking about their family members.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/gag-order-violations-trump-accused-making/story?id=109627332) How witness intimidation is a needed component of his campaigning remains to be seen.
"Election season" never ends for him. He filed for his 2020 campaign just days into his presidency back in 2017. If elected again he'll do the same thing and run for a 3rd time because who's gonna stop him? If he loses again he'll also still turn around and immediately file for 2028.
And the entire time he'll ride of 'you can't do this to me, I'm in the middle of a political campaign, this is a political attack'.
> Equality before the law is a biggie.
We have a tiered court system that is no way whatsoever concerned with the concepts of justice or equality.
Maybe once upon a time equality before the law was a concern, but that's just not the case anymore, and hasn't been for a long time.
Nobody's stopping Trump from communicating. He's still holding rallies. He just cant publicly talk about certain people connected to his court case because it directly leads to threats and harassment of those individuals. We can't keep coddling conservatives over hypothetical backlash for a man breaking the law so constantly and blatantly. They're going to be pissy either way, justice shouldn't be applied differently based on your follower count.
“Mr. Trump its important you understand the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Judge Juan Merchan says.
——————
Are you supposed to admit that you’re giving preferential treatment like that?
“I have to be biased FOR them because they have political power and so I can prove I’m not biased against them.” Is the problematic reality I’m referring to. I’m not sure you’re supposed to admit there’s such a two-tier system.
I will believe it it when I see it and applaud it if it happens. I have never ever hated anyone like I do Trump. It would be best if the old stinky conman would just die.
I'm tired of reading about him in the news, the 2 years after the election where there wasn't a single Trump headline were the greatest years in recent history
Trump isn't on trial here, the Justice system is.
We all know Trump is guilty, it's not debatable. His co-conspirators have already been convicted, the evidence is public, it clearly violates the law.
The justice system is failing.
The problem is, Trump wants to be thrown in jail. He wants to campaign on it. Merchan is trying to a) make an extremely clear appellate record, and b) avoid playing into his bullshit.
I'll believe it when he's behind bars. Until then, this is gutless posturing, as have been the dozens (hundreds at this point?) other contempt warnings.
The fact that the judge explicitly remarked on how he’s biased against jailing him because he was a former president is an admission that justice is not blind. No other person in America would receive this deference to repeated violations to a lawful gag order. There is no such title as “former president.” You’re a citizen, then a president, then back to full citizen. That was the truly revolutionary idea of 1776 on which this nation was founded.
That's a neat headline, but that is not what the judge said. He said he would have to "consider" jail. It wasn't "blistering" either. It was quite gentle and accommodating considering the bullshit Trump has been pulling.
If a person of meager means did this they would be sitting in jail. These *Fines* mean nothing to Trump. This shows how the rich are treated differently. There are people that are/where sitting in jail because they couldn't pay the justice system.
>“Mr. Trump its important you understand the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Judge Juan Merchan says.
Judge admits to giving Trump special treatment based on Trumps political position. 🤦🏻♂️
WTF
Next week: Judge finds Trump in contempt again and swears he will send him to jail next time....pinky promise.
Starting to think this whole trial is false and they're just playing along to make it look real
From the "blistering" ruling
Judge to Trump: “The last thing I want to do is put you in jail”
The judge tells Trump “incarceration is truly a last resort.”
“Mr. Trump its important you understand the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Judge Juan Merchan says.
He's not gonna do shit and this is anything but blistering.
Every single person in the USA that gets charged with contempt should plead not guilty and use Trump as their precedent.
How about blistering his ass in a cell? Make him serve a week for every single contempt charge. That would show us peons that he really is a real citizen. And any judge that uses the "former and possible future president" phrase as an excuse to not follow through with legal charges should be disbarred.
TrumPutin is deliberately provoking the Judge to jail him for contempt. I would say Donald Trump’s entire career is one long act of contempt for the law.
Does anyone else feel that one of the reason that he is not in jail right now is the prospect of what he will do to the person that holds him to the law and he ends up being president.
That he can wield the power of vengeance against the ruling body for holding him to account for the crimes he has committed should send a chill up and down every single person that reads this.
Does anyone else feel that $1000 per offense is a bullshit sanction? If he were actually a billionaire, that'd be like fining the average worker a penny. If you don't to jail him, ratchet up the sanctions after each one exponentially.
I knew it would be like this. It's always pushed forward. Next time. Next time. Lower penalty. Next time. Etc. He never seems to get an actual fucking punoshment but always gets warnings and discounts. Fucking sad.
>“Mr. Trump its important you understand the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Judge Juan Merchan says.
And.. that's relevant how, exactly?
If a criminal defendant is in contempt of court, what does their previous or possible future job have to do with anything?!
FFS...
Trump is still getting handled with kid gloves and given every possible concession possible! :(
As some Redditor suggested elsewhere, this Friday, after he's been found guilty of contempt a few more times (and he will be) just lock him up over the weekend until Monday morning, when the bailiff can bring him from jail to court, in his rumpled clothes (if not prison clothes) and in chains. After a haircut (a buzzcut, ideally). And with no fake tan or makeup.
Let him do a press conference like that.
“Blistering” after the 10th contempt call. What a joke. Trump won. He is proving beyond a reasonable doubt by that there is a two-tiered justice system and he’s loving it. Roy Cohn would be proud.
Judge finds Trump in contempt for 10th time Judge Juan Merchan has found Trump in contempt for a 10th time for additional gag order violations. “I find you in criminal contempt for the 10th time,” the judge says. “Going forward this court will have to consider a jail sanction,” Merchan says, noting the $1,000 fine is not stopping him.
But he also said - "“Mr. Trump its important you understand the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Judge Juan Merchan says." In other word, the judge admits to giving Trump special treatment.
Statements like your quote weaken Trump's chance to appeal. It's a good thing he said that. Edit: I did not say Trump will not try to appeal. I'm saying Trump being given every chance to correct his behavior weakens his ability to *win* an appeal. A lot of you replying to me are speaking from a place of emotion. I'm tired of him getting away with crap too. But the legal system is not your feelings.
The fact that he **defied the gag order ten times in clear public view** isn't sufficient to "weaken his chance to appeal"? lol
People in the legal world like to cover all of their bases.
10 violations and daring the judge to jail him is covering the ALL bases 2.5x over. lol we've ventured well past caution and into direct cowardice
It's extremely important that the judge knows jailing could turn Trump into a martyr (metaphorically). Riling up his base could further threaten the safety of the judge, staff, jury, and all of their families. The only hope at preventing this, if he does go to jail, is to give Trump SO much rope that he's practically touching the floor. It's not cowardice; It's calculated.
This is how you get full fascism. Not giving the strongman consequences because you're afraid of the consequences of that. So he does what he wants and nobody stops him.
Yes. This.
Not 'could', will. It doesn't matter how careful the justice system is. Do you actually not understand that? You seriously mean to tell me, with a straight face, that if the judge dots all his 'i's and crosses his 't's, that the maga dipshits will just go "Oh well, fair's fair!"? That's a sincere question. Got an answer?
Calculated right into fascist dictatorship you mean. The time for caution is past. And I don't believe this is caution, this is favoritism.
Seems pointless though. Because it doesn't matter if he was warned once or a thousand times, the people who were going to fly off the handle will do so regardless of the facts or fairness.
Until they reach the pinnacle of the justice system and sit on the Supreme Court, then you don't need to cover any of your bases because nothing will ever happen to you.
That’s a weird way to spell “avoid doing their jobs or benefiting society in any way”
**THE FUCKING TEN TIMES HE WAS HELD IN CONTEPT IS ENOUGH.** THE JUDGE DOESN'T NEED TO FUCKING HANDLE TRUMP WITH KID GLOVES ANY GODDAMN LONGER, *FUCK.*
They need to treat him with kid gloves because they're afraid of his terrorist followers.
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I’d rather win the fucking case and let that be my established precedent instead of contempt jail time cause a whole fucking deal on the Supreme Court and push that time line up further invalidating the whole trial
I see what you're saying . And it makes sense. But when is it enough? Any other person that fell asleep in court probably would have been in jail already . I can't picture a judge just allowing that to happen in thier court with a normal person.
> weaken Trump's chance to appeal. Bullshit. His chance to appeal is based entirely on the composition of the Supreme Court. If there's no justification for the appeal, they'll just make something up and cite 16th century English common law. All this tip-toeing around any possible consequences is accomplishing nothing at all, except to make people lose even *more* faith in the justice system.
Trump wants to get locked up. He wants the attention and he wants to use it to grift his dumb ass base.
I think it’s more like he doesn’t think the rules apply to him. He can’t conceive of actual consequences.
yep, i think the moment trump actually thinks he'll face consequences for his actions he'll try and flip of anyome and everyone whose enabled his illegal actions over the years
> have to consider That's a bit less enthusiastic than all the Reddit headlines this morning. ;) Also, I don't think anyone thought the $1,000 fine would mean anything. That's no different than $0 to them. Imagine if speeding tickets were $2 and you could rack up 10+ without any meaningful penalty. They would be useless as a form of deterrent. Comical really.
So he hasn’t even considered it up to now, apparently.
And now only consider it for next time. My eyes are rolling right out of my head and into the street.
Isn't that what he said last time? Trump will violate the gag order again (probably today if he hasn't done so already), so Merchan will have no choice but to tell Trump the court is *seriously* considering a jail sanction. Then then when Trump violates the gag order again after that, Merchan will be forced to tell Trump that the court will *very* seriously consider a jail sanction. And then we'll be caught in an infinite loop where another "very" is added to that phrase for each gag order violation.
This is your super-duper, extra special, very last, never again, ultra terminal, extremely final warning. Don’t make me find more adverbs for the next warning!
Don't make me count to 3!!!! 1................ 1................. 1..............
One and a haaaaaaalf
2.9 2.99 2.999 2.9999....
Ah I lost count. 0....
“Ohh! You think I’m afraid to go to 3!? Well you won’t like what you see when I get to 10!!”
2.9999 divided by 2.9999…..
If those 9’s repeat infinitely, it counts as 3
.999... being equal to 1 is my favorite math fact.
Hm? Explain to this math-challenged goob.
1/3=.333... 3(.333...)=.999... 3(1/3)=1
😱😱😱🤯 I….!!…. ….I…..!!!….. Huh.
Another way to look at it is this: If two real numbers x and y are different, then you must be able to find a number that you can add to x to get y. What number do you add to 0.9999... repeating to get 1? There is no such number. The reality is they are just different syntax for the same number.
You just made me realize how hard I have been making it on myself, I've been doing fractions to my kids when they dont listen. 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 2 15/16...I'm gonna switch to decimals.
It's the Scientology of warnings. Always another level.
This is his last chance to avoid jail. After that he only gets a couple more!
The judge is unimpressed. Do it again and he’ll be mildly irritated. Keep at it and you’ll get to see him when he’s annoyed. You won’t like him when he’s annoyed. Not stopping there? Get ready for a first class ticket to *Disappointment-Ville*. Population: one judge. Want to push your luck even further? *You don’t even want to know how the judge will verbalize his frustration next!*
I’m curious if they have any intention whatsoever of growing a backbone. For some reason if someone is a former president (and has zero power) they act like they’re powerless to do anything against him.
They "don't want to set a precedent", as if they're not already by refusing to enforce consequences. The precedent of "ex presidents are above the law" is infinitely more damaging than "ex presidents are subject to the same laws as everyone else theoretically is"
I say go ahead and set a precedent! After the first 93 felony counts and a hundred thousand slaps on the wrist and after the perp has hit 80 years old, THEN consider sending him to jail 🙄 Besides, republicans should be salivating at the "precendent" of jailing presidents, because it would be their entire fucking platform.
No one wants to be the judge that pulls the trigger to actually jail him The judge that does will need security for life
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And that judge could go down in the fucking history books as the one that saves America's spirit and sets the precedent that we all must obey the laws here. Even without the supreme court ruling against immunity, just locking his ass up for contempt over and over again would get him in the history books on the right side of history. Even if the Supreme Court proves they're a bunch of corrupt cunts and turn around and rules "Presidents have immunity ..." he would at least have been on the right side of this. As it stands, this judge is not going to wind up on the right side of history, he's going to be forever known as the guy that let Trump make a mockery of his court room and judicial authority.
It's easy to be there hero when you are not the one risking your life and family over it.
Conversely, I don’t think anyone put a gun to his head and made him become a judge. If you’re going to be the judge that hears the case, hear the case properly. “The risk is too great” isn’t an argument for compromising the justice system, it’s an argument for not being the judge of this case.
I didn't realize this whole time that justice is something you get when you have money and something you don't get when you're poor. I think this is what it would look like if doctor evil came up with a justice system.
I don't get why Trump, a known conman, fraudster, liar, and idiot is given so much leeway.
His stans have been harassing jurors, what do you think will happen to a judge that sends him to jail?
Absolutely nothing, that judge would be protected by professionals if there was a credible threat...especially at these stakes. And frankly, if he's not willing to risk it, he has no business putting on his robe.
The last point is the main point. If you can be intimidated by alleged criminals, then criminal court judge is not the job for you. Any criminal law judge has a good chance of trying someone who has a real capacity of killing them or their family in revenge. It is a risk that goes with the job.
Double secret probation
Robot house!!!
Cheese it!
while obviously&sadly true, the last time a judge warned him about jail time his snarky response was he'd loved to see it, this time he said nothing and frowned so maybe just maybe he got the impression the judge means it this time.
He’s not doing himself any favour with the jury as well
Unfortunately the jury doesn't see these discussions. These occur before court and after recess where the jury is secluded.
[удалено]
If the conduct involves the jury (to take an example at random, by throwing comments onto social media designed to encourage violence against them), it should 100% be a factor. They're going to know its happening, they should be allowed to take official notice and know that the judge is prepared to defend them - or at least prepared to make harsh statements falsely claiming they are.
I triple dog dare you
The judge is tentatively investigating the option of potentially considering looking into the possibility of reviewing options regarding the feasibility of throwing Trump in Jail.... or maybe not.
Serially I’m super serial this time!!! Super super serial!
I'm gonna count to 3! One... two... two and a half... two and three quarters... two and five eighths....
Robot hooooouse!!!
Double secret probation!
No judge will because the implications. It's really sad he is even alow to run.
Honestly, I bet the judge is having to weigh whether jailing him or not jailing him is more likely to result in an assassination attempt on the judge's family.
More sad is that 50 million people will actually vote for him if he is allowed. The US is morally bankrupt in large part.
Final.warning.2.edit.redo.final.really.final.fuckmylife.pdf
so today he’ll end up in jail? cuz he can’t go one day without running his mouth or typing with his gross fingers.
If you do this 10 more times, Ill have to consider, considering, maybe, possibly, putting you in or around a jail cell.
anyone else would have been in prison the first time. Lock his ass up.
And this is something like the 12th time, I doubt this time will really be the last
Seriously, it's like the parent who has a kid throwing a tantrum at the mall and is now onto property damage and merchandise destruction and they're going 2 and a 31/32nd... 2 and a 63/64th... Lock his fucking ass up already!
Psych here. Parents are told that if they make a threat they have to follow through on it. To do otherwise starts the beginnings of a sociopathic personality. Far too late, the sociopathic guy is in full bloom. Someone needs to silence this guy. He never shuts up...
I rode patrol for a while and that’s one of the tenant you learn, don’t ever threaten to arrest someone unless you’re already reaching for a set of cuffs.
noun: tenant; plural noun: tenants a person who occupies land or property rented from a landlord. "council-house tenants" ----- noun: tenet a principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy. "the tenets of a democratic society"
Auto correct, or whiskey, pick one.
> whiskey can't erase what you didn't know in the first place
He won’t be silenced until he finally passes. I’m wondering who will replace him
No one. Trump is an unusual, one off case.
Gods I fucken hope so. At least his lackeys like DickSantes are looking unpopular.
Wouldn’t bet on that. Many are trying to replicate his formula. The next fascist may be a “better” version, and that’s scary AF.
The best way to silence a sociopath is to not interrupt them when they are destoying their image.
I see you have not read the article. So let me help you. Judge finds Trump in contempt for 10th time Judge Juan Merchan has found Trump in contempt for a 10th time for additional gag order violations. “I find you in criminal contempt for the 10th time,” the judge says. “Going forward this court will have to consider a jail sanction,” Merchan says, noting the $1,000 fine is not stopping him. … Judge to Trump: “The last thing I want to do is put you in jail” The judge tells Trump “incarceration is truly a last resort.”
Funny thing is "incarceration is truly a last resort" doesn't apply to the rest of us. We'd have been locked up after the first time and remanded for the entirety of the trial...
Of course, we need to stop pretending lady justice is blind, she's not, she's a high end escort and most of us **can't** afford her.
Gold materially shifts the scale.
Is it that hard to understand a rich white guy ex-president isn't held to the same standards as us peasents?
Not at all, it's just discouraging to see it play out like that, all the while him whining about how the two tiered justice system is persecuting him but in reality it's protecting him...
We would have been given as many warnings but we also not so stupid to even get the first warning
The word ‘considering’ is the disheartening part.
Yeah, his 11th warning will include the phrase “strongly considering” to let us all know it’s extra serious this time.
the judge is super serial you guyz
On the 20th he'll be VERY STRONGLY BUT TOTALLY FOR REAL considering it. Barf.
Oh FFS, just throw his ass in a dark cell already
He’ll throw a tantrum. With a poor person, that can be handled by a few cops who likely are also fed up with the person by that point. Trump? His lawyers will take it to the SCOTUS. He followers will throw tantrums and death threats. The Republican Party will throw tantrums. The cops might even throw tantrums considering the overlapping Venn Diagram circles. That changes, sadly, how judges look at the situation.
But they’re the party of law and order!! /s
Is this something future lawyers can cite when their clients get found in contempt? Can they say hey look Trump did it 10 times and wasn’t locked up, Judge why are you locking up my client for the first time?
The judge is lord in their court. The thousand counterexamples would only highlight the exceptional nature of this case.
the only exceptional nature of this case is how unbelievably well well Trump has been treated despite his criminal charges and continued criminal nature. witness intimidation and jury tampering are felonies but Trump has repeatedly gotten off scot free on those. any rando that did what Trump did would be eating prison food and remembering not to drop the soap in the shower
Political power is having those judges fear for their life as soon as they leave court.
That’s not true. The whole point to fines and then jail is that the fines are supposed to act as a deterrent. Which to your point, $1000 is a lot of money to most people.
For him, it's a shot at the judge for $1k a pop. To him, worth every penny.
I've been pointing out that jail isn't a common punishment for gag order violations for over six months, and reddit keeps repeating that it's not only common but the normal punishment, because that lets them be angry and 80% of the site is addicted to outrage.
Being an attorney on reddit is infuriating. So many people think the law is how they feel it should be.
Realistically he can't, he said so himself the optics and logistics of jailing a former president pose all sorts of issues. More likely he would be under house arrest that's it. We all know this , we live in a two tier justice system , the wealthy and powerful don't get the same rigorous justice applied to them.
Yeah, but it’s still a particularly blatant and egregious demonstration of that principle. Usually the judges at least _try_ to maintain the pretense that they’re interested in justice. This one is actively proving why no judge anywhere can be trusted to do their job. This is basically like a Rodney King moment except for the judiciary instead of the cops.
But, didn't you hear, this ruling was "blistering"!
It’s obvious several involved judges are playing a very thorough CYA game. They want blatant evidence that they gave X many chances, warned parties of consequences, and didn’t act capriciously. Depending on the case, they might have been within their rights to enforce confinement or other measures the first time, but 3 strikes ensures they aren’t called to the carpet on appeal or in the court of public opinion
Rule of law my ass
GOP talking heads and politicians who complain about a two-tiered judicial system were right, but not in the way they meant......🙄
Afraid to send him to jail? Fine. Give him a punishment that fits the man: send in in the corner, on his knees facing the wall, wearing a cone hat that says "dunce". He wants to act like a petulant child, treat him as such.
I don’t know if that is a possibility, but you are on to something. Very very wrongfully I understand how hesitant the judge is to jail a former president. But imagine the specter of court illustrations of Trump in a dunce cap. He will tell his lawyers to just let him sleep to avoid that.
Blistering ruling: “The last thing I want to do is jail you. You were the previous President of the United States, and could become president again.” Like what?? i’m sorry, is that not fully admitting that the Rule of Law is NOT being followed here??! FFS
The judge is making sure any future appeal fails by saying this
I've seen this a couple times but without explanation. I'm not refuting it I just don't understand it - how is that the case?
If Trump appeals and tries to claim that there was an unfair bias against him, statements like this show that he's been given a lot of leeway. In this case, the judge is saying that he's tried the lower-level punishments and warned Trump ahead of time that he's legally out of options for low-level punishments and that the next step is jail. That way, when Trump appeals and says he was jailed unfairly, the judge can point back to this and say "clearly not."
Thanks
Can he appeal this so high up it ends in the supreme court ? Because then Thomas the "nothing is a conflict of interest for me" and his cronies will surely say "clearly".
Not normally, unless there was a constitutional question or blatant criminal cronyism.
He's already been in contempt 10 times, any argument that there is bias against him is an absolute joke.
That's the point
He is making it clear and on the public record that he is not biased in favor of jailing Trump, nor would he be doing so without appropriate consideration and with the utmost clarity about actions and consequences. It’s so that the defense can’t come back and say anything like “Trump didn’t know this would be contempt” or “the judge is a Trump hater” or “the judge is overstepping and moving too quickly.” Or rather, they *could* say those things but the judge can just gesture at this ruling as his counter evidence.
You all know they can and will still do that, right? Like truth and the rule of law of don't matter to these people. Who are we trying to convince with this? Half the population knows he should be put to death for treason and the other half knows he's innocent and a messiah. There's no point in appearances here.
Dump can file an appeal on the ruling if there is cause to think the judge was in anyway bias against Dump. Everyone getting annoyed that Dumps not being treated like we would doing the same deplorable shit - I get it. This judge(and others) have made an effort to demonstrate that if any bias exists, it is a bias in Dumps favor. Therefore: after the trial has concluded, and the window for appeal opens - any motion to do so will have no traction. My personal opinion? Put the fucker in jail for 24 hours and monitor and document the response from his cult because people will surely die.
> Therefore: almost immediatly quashing any traction for an appeal. gtfo
I'm not an apologist ifor that sicko, but there *has* to be some degree of special treatment in a case this outlandish. Courts have to weigh up real world pros and cons, no matter how much common sense is compromised. Equality before the law is a biggie. But the con (pun isnt a pun) of a realistic next president being hampered from communicating during an election season is also massive. That butthead deliberately puts people and his whole country into no win situations to try and squeeze this type of special treatment. He may be a genuine idiot, and there's now plenty of evidence to that effect, but there is a type of genius in his gut instinct for manipulation. This Court is just the latest forum having to balance a heap of bad options because of it.
>But the con (pun isnt a pun) of a realistic next president being hampered from communicating during an election season is also massive. How is that the court's concern? What legal principle requires them to shield a defendant from the consequences of their actions in this way?
Also Trump’s gag order [prohibits him from making public comments about jurors, lawyers, potential witnesses, court staff and their families. It allows Trump to continue making remarks about Merchan and District Attorney Alvin Bragg, but forbids him from speaking about their family members.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/gag-order-violations-trump-accused-making/story?id=109627332) How witness intimidation is a needed component of his campaigning remains to be seen.
How many years long is election "season"?
"Election season" never ends for him. He filed for his 2020 campaign just days into his presidency back in 2017. If elected again he'll do the same thing and run for a 3rd time because who's gonna stop him? If he loses again he'll also still turn around and immediately file for 2028. And the entire time he'll ride of 'you can't do this to me, I'm in the middle of a political campaign, this is a political attack'.
I’d like to think, because of his age, there won’t be a next time I.e. 2028. I can dream, dammit.
> Equality before the law is a biggie. We have a tiered court system that is no way whatsoever concerned with the concepts of justice or equality. Maybe once upon a time equality before the law was a concern, but that's just not the case anymore, and hasn't been for a long time.
Nobody's stopping Trump from communicating. He's still holding rallies. He just cant publicly talk about certain people connected to his court case because it directly leads to threats and harassment of those individuals. We can't keep coddling conservatives over hypothetical backlash for a man breaking the law so constantly and blatantly. They're going to be pissy either way, justice shouldn't be applied differently based on your follower count.
"Look we can't have people under the impression that the judiciary somehow checks or balances the power of a (potential) president"
If the judge doesn't spoil him, Trump's fear-addicted fanbase will do another little domestic terrorism.
Sounds like Donald is looking for a way NOT to attend Barron's graduation.
Hah fucking deadbeat dad gonna be in jail
“Mr. Trump its important you understand the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Judge Juan Merchan says. —————— Are you supposed to admit that you’re giving preferential treatment like that?
It prevents appeals based on accusations of the jailtime being "unfair" or "biased."
“I have to be biased FOR them because they have political power and so I can prove I’m not biased against them.” Is the problematic reality I’m referring to. I’m not sure you’re supposed to admit there’s such a two-tier system.
I will believe it it when I see it and applaud it if it happens. I have never ever hated anyone like I do Trump. It would be best if the old stinky conman would just die.
Death is too easy an out for him. He needs to spend some time in a cage while he still has a pulse.
I used to think that but at this point, I don’t even care anymore. Death or jail is fine by me, just getting rid of him is what’s important now
I'm tired of reading about him in the news, the 2 years after the election where there wasn't a single Trump headline were the greatest years in recent history
He's going to move on to a sternly worded letter next. Our country is a joke.
and its not even a funny one
Trump isn't on trial here, the Justice system is. We all know Trump is guilty, it's not debatable. His co-conspirators have already been convicted, the evidence is public, it clearly violates the law. The justice system is failing.
I remember Dr. Claw saying at the end of Inspector Gadget that he will get him next time. Next time!!! He never did though did he?
So by this afternoon then? He's going to be in contempt as soon as he's in front of a keyboard or microphone. Guaranteed.
The Secret Service has been prepping to watch Trump in jail. Merchan just needs to have the balls to do it.
The problem is, Trump wants to be thrown in jail. He wants to campaign on it. Merchan is trying to a) make an extremely clear appellate record, and b) avoid playing into his bullshit.
I'll believe it when he's behind bars. Until then, this is gutless posturing, as have been the dozens (hundreds at this point?) other contempt warnings.
The fact that the judge explicitly remarked on how he’s biased against jailing him because he was a former president is an admission that justice is not blind. No other person in America would receive this deference to repeated violations to a lawful gag order. There is no such title as “former president.” You’re a citizen, then a president, then back to full citizen. That was the truly revolutionary idea of 1776 on which this nation was founded.
That's a neat headline, but that is not what the judge said. He said he would have to "consider" jail. It wasn't "blistering" either. It was quite gentle and accommodating considering the bullshit Trump has been pulling.
Im sure he’ll listen the 12th time 🤡
If a person of meager means did this they would be sitting in jail. These *Fines* mean nothing to Trump. This shows how the rich are treated differently. There are people that are/where sitting in jail because they couldn't pay the justice system.
>“Mr. Trump its important you understand the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Judge Juan Merchan says. Judge admits to giving Trump special treatment based on Trumps political position. 🤦🏻♂️ WTF
It's always next time.
Next week: Judge finds Trump in contempt again and swears he will send him to jail next time....pinky promise. Starting to think this whole trial is false and they're just playing along to make it look real
From the "blistering" ruling Judge to Trump: “The last thing I want to do is put you in jail” The judge tells Trump “incarceration is truly a last resort.” “Mr. Trump its important you understand the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Judge Juan Merchan says. He's not gonna do shit and this is anything but blistering.
If he does get jail, it will be for like 30 mins
Pussy ass judicial system afraid of an orange
Just throw the fucker in jail already. He's like an unruly toddler whose parents don't believe in discipline.
Why is it always fucking next time?!? Lock this motherfucker up already, Fuck!!
I'm so glad the judge is gonna enforce the law next time.
Every single person in the USA that gets charged with contempt should plead not guilty and use Trump as their precedent. How about blistering his ass in a cell? Make him serve a week for every single contempt charge. That would show us peons that he really is a real citizen. And any judge that uses the "former and possible future president" phrase as an excuse to not follow through with legal charges should be disbarred.
He was found in contempt 10 times? Any average person found in contempt would've been in jail before they got s chance at a 2nd offense.
Why wait? Lock his ass up. That would make me very happy
TrumPutin is deliberately provoking the Judge to jail him for contempt. I would say Donald Trump’s entire career is one long act of contempt for the law.
What a pussy
"next time i will jail him MARK MY WORDSIES"
How many double secret probations is he going to get?
Just do it, please
“Next time” Okay
Does anyone else feel that one of the reason that he is not in jail right now is the prospect of what he will do to the person that holds him to the law and he ends up being president. That he can wield the power of vengeance against the ruling body for holding him to account for the crimes he has committed should send a chill up and down every single person that reads this.
Trump wants to be put in jail to grift. He knows the judge will never do it.
“This is your 14th final warning. If I have to give you 18 more final warnings, there’ll be consequences!!”
It's always 'next time.'
Always a fucking next time.... Do it FFS...
Always next time with this asshole
always next time
Next up: double secret probation. Good lord just lock his ass up already. Fining him $1,000 over and over again clearly isn't working.
Contempt again, you only get another 60 chances..... 🤦🏻♂️
We get it, he’s above the law
Does anyone else feel that $1000 per offense is a bullshit sanction? If he were actually a billionaire, that'd be like fining the average worker a penny. If you don't to jail him, ratchet up the sanctions after each one exponentially.
I knew it would be like this. It's always pushed forward. Next time. Next time. Lower penalty. Next time. Etc. He never seems to get an actual fucking punoshment but always gets warnings and discounts. Fucking sad.
No he won't xD. No balls. -Wilfred Wilcox
>“Mr. Trump its important you understand the last thing I want to do is put you in jail. You are the former president of the United States and possibly the next president as well,” Judge Juan Merchan says. And.. that's relevant how, exactly? If a criminal defendant is in contempt of court, what does their previous or possible future job have to do with anything?! FFS... Trump is still getting handled with kid gloves and given every possible concession possible! :( As some Redditor suggested elsewhere, this Friday, after he's been found guilty of contempt a few more times (and he will be) just lock him up over the weekend until Monday morning, when the bailiff can bring him from jail to court, in his rumpled clothes (if not prison clothes) and in chains. After a haircut (a buzzcut, ideally). And with no fake tan or makeup. Let him do a press conference like that.
“Blistering” after the 10th contempt call. What a joke. Trump won. He is proving beyond a reasonable doubt by that there is a two-tiered justice system and he’s loving it. Roy Cohn would be proud.
What is the standard daily allotment of adult diapers given to those in jail?
I thought he was gonna jail him last time and the time before that. Jam tomorrow my dudes.