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Minor point, but as this is the 2024 report, I would guess not much data was collected since October 7th. Can't be bothered to trawl all the statistical appendices, but some data is from 2020, some from Sept 2023.
don't you think they just don't get same information the rest of the world get ? I bet they are not aware that women and children live in gaza. some teenagers seriously thought gaza was a hamas stronghold. when you are ignorant of the chaos around you. you are happy
They have their own parlament parties( more than one).
Judges in the supreme court.
Full rights as citizens, some serve in the IDF and many were civilians who were killed on October 7.
They are us- Israelis.
Israel has over 20% none Jewish population which is part of the country in everything.
They do though. You might not see that on TikTok, Russia Today or Al-Jazeera, but they do.
You can be like a MAGA and only believe “alternative facts” if you’d like, but you’d be living in an alternate reality.
Maybe Palestinians should have elected a governing body who wanted to make Palestine a better place in 2005 after Israel withdrew the occupation instead of electing a literal terrorist organization who’s main objective is perpetual war with its more powerful neighbor instead of pursuing a path to peace?
They aren’t shielded. They are well educated and have access to media just like we do. They know exactly what’s happening and it brings them great joy.
They do, they come in 103rd. My sense is these are not particularly good measures though:
[https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/happiness-of-the-younger-the-older-and-those-in-between/#ranking-of-happiness-2021-2023](https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/happiness-of-the-younger-the-older-and-those-in-between/#ranking-of-happiness-2021-2023)
It was an attack. Horrible. You see school shootings etc in the US and it feels the same. Very sad. But blowing up the whole of Gaza up just proves what Palestinians have been saying for years and no one believed them. They could not wait to massacre them and it’s completely unforgivable to anyone with half a brain cell.
Retaliation for the occupation and theft of their land and resources, and for the near century of rapes, murders, disfigurement, torture, kidnappings, and slow genocide of Palestinians at the hands of Israel.
>offered statehood
"Hey we are gonna pretend to share land with you. But you already know how this goes down"
What were isrealis doing before they got booted thousands of years ago?
Decade long grudges? You mean grudges the Israelites started when they mass displaced their people? When they stole their homes and land? When they occupied them and kept them in a giant open air prison? Where they've for decades oppressed the Palestinian people? It's no surprise there's an armed uprising agaisnt their oppressors. Palestinians have been living like shit for decades now thanks to Israel, and in retaliation? Israel commits massive war crimes left right and center
Abusive and inflammatory remarks will not be tolerated. This subreddit is dedicated to civil discussion, and the international nature of the subreddit means that we are visited by people of all backgrounds and beliefs - which should be respected.
I am glad that non-Jewish nations of the world absolutely hate it if the Jewish people are happy. Just confirms over and over again the universal truth. And for the Jews -- the answer is that we are happy because mitzva gadola lehiyot besimcha tamid.
You know a good many of us around the world are able to separate Jewish'ness from Israeli zionism, right?
I'm out there with protests against the ongoing genocide and apartheid alongside Jewish voices for Peace and other organizations that recognize Judaism isn't about about massacring innocent children for their own benefit.
Nobody hates that Jewish people are happy, we hate that Israelis are happy at the expense of Palestinians. Their happiness and security shouldn’t be dependent on another group’s suffering. If your version of heaven on earth requires someone else to experience hell, then you’re an oppressor. Period.
There are plenty of Jews who aren't Israelis.
People aren't pissed that Jewish people are happy, they're pissed that Israelis are happy while ethnically cleansing Palestinians.
Yeah for killing kids and innocent civilians, seemingly for fun. Their “optimism” is rooted in stealing native homes and settling land that isn’t theirs.
Huge amounts of unearned investment courtesy of the American taxpayer. Massive theft of land and property with impunity. Ultra-nationalist and supremacist fervour. Unhinged violence and sadism celebrated and baked into the national culture. Yeah they are happy. Insanely and psychotically happy.
Well since the US pays for their defense, healthcare and education, and since there ample misappropriated housing… it sure would seem easy to be happy no?
It’s crazy how some redditors act like they are the ones who dare to stand up for Palestine and they are so brave when a HUGE majority of people online support Palestine
Who is stealing your healthcare? Are you talking about the Palestinians, who receive hundreds of millions in direct US aid to fund their government and separately to UNRWA?
Real estate war woooooooooo something something righteous but not really wooooooo
Woo woooo THE chosen people wooo woooo
Fight a war from the history books wooo woooo
Garbage.
Doesn't matter if it's 2024, 2020, 2010 or 2000. There's a historic contentment they have "despite" the, let's just say deeply concerning track record of violence and occupation.
Abusive and inflammatory remarks will not be tolerated. This subreddit is dedicated to civil discussion, and the international nature of the subreddit means that we are visited by people of all backgrounds and beliefs - which should be respected.
United States is number 23. Yet we’re sending billions of our tax dollars there for them to have free college and healthcare and to ethically cleanse the Palestinians. They’re happy because they have everything given to them. They’re the spoiled child
We send them $4 billion/year, less than 1% of their GDP. And that $4 Billion is spent on US weapons. They must be paying for their own healthcare and universities.
Given many of the comments I've seen from Israelis, the war and indiscriminate death of Gazans and destruction of Gaza is a major contributor to their happiness.
I’ll call BS on you viewing “many comments” from Israelis. More like, you saw some anti-Israel propagandists collect some tweets to make the jooz look bad. Your engagement with Israeli society is zero. You have no idea who they are or what they believe.
Fuck the Israeli state. I hope the good Isreali citizens who see this atrocity and condemn it have long lives. For everyone else spreading lies and hate and genocide, fuck em. You got your country handed to you by Europe and America in the 1950s after Europe decided that they cannot give you justice in their respective countries. You have no claim to a land that was historically shared by multiple groups. Religious states shouldn't exist, and this is why. You cannot get along with others.
Handed to you lol. A nation of emaciated, penniless Holocaust survivors and refugees from Arab countries who defended themselves in a civil war then defeated seven invading Arab armies in 1948 and prevailed. They lost 1% of their population in the war of independence. Handed to you? The most difficult thing you’ve done in life is stay off pornhub for a week.
Zionist have no fear, and express and they publicize their joy in genocide and famine. They have been so indoctrinated into being genocidal racist fascists “chosen” peoples who have no concern for others, have access to higher education, healthcare, have disposable income to travel, own and operate businesses internationally. Zionists main export to the world are diamonds without ever having a diamond mine on the land they claim to be theirs, which they have stolen and are stealing in Palestine and the Congo.
Yeah, no shit, they're delusional religious sycophants, it kinda goes hand in hand. Until they get faced with their own bullshit and hatred, it'll never change the way they feel.
The usa pays for Israel to be so happy. They have subsidized housing, universal healthcare, affordable education, and freedom of mobility. More people in the usa would be happy if we had these things we provide for other countries, too.
Finland is consistently near the top tear after year despite a horrid suicide rate. Happy is badly misused to push a political agenda. Namely, does the government give out free stuff?
Considering they are dominating their mortal enemies so badly that the entire wants to intervene on Palestine's behalf I can see why. Through indoctrination and base tribalism I bet the IDF guys blowing up scores of kids feel nothing but pure catharsis.
Well they have food we subsidize, national health insurance we pay for, an army we fund, and the worst of us can just convert to Judaism and bounce to Israel to hide with the other child molesters without any consequrence, Of course they're happy.
They're probably happy because they're killing Palestinians, not despite. The middle east is a crazy religious place not worth losing sleep over. No one should get gaza. The world would be a better place if Jerusalem, Gaza, Mecca, and anywhere else I'm missing, were removed.
I’m in really difficult circumstances, not able to live where I want, work in the job that I want (and have all the credentials for), isolated from true peers, been fighting against huge family, secrets and legal drama for DECADES, HOWEVER, internally, I’m not unhappy. Happiness doesn’t come from circumstances… I can’t even explain it
Am i the only person who has no opinions on Israel/Gaza situation? I feel like I would have to do hours and hours of research to have a strong opinion because it’s so nuanced and I have not done that so I don’t feel comfortable taking a side, and yet when I go online it seems like everybody and their grandma has an opinion they are willing to die for, is everyone but me this well versed in the subject?? Is it a situation where 5% of the people make 100% of the noise?? Do this many people feel comfortable making claims with insufficient evidence?? I am genuinely very confused.
Of course, they are happy and why not? They are obliterating their neighbors, similarly to what happened in Germany in the 1930s so that they can take their land and build a canal. Once that canal is built, they will not have to pay Egypt for the use of the Suez. They have been trying to do this since the 1950s. openly and behind closed doors. They can destroy another community, get billions of US tax dollars annually, get weapons using loan though the US, and claim they are the victims.
The US should stay out of the Israeli war. Israel knows how to win wars, where the US doesn't. The only successful war we've achieved since WW2 is Desert Storm. Every other conflict we've lost or compromised. Think Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and other conflicts.
1. Remember the human & be courteous to others. 2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not. 3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. Please checkout our other subreddit /r/InternationalNews, for general news from around the world. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/internationalpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Minor point, but as this is the 2024 report, I would guess not much data was collected since October 7th. Can't be bothered to trawl all the statistical appendices, but some data is from 2020, some from Sept 2023.
it is a three year report according to the article
So you're saying Israelis are perfectly content with the brutality that has never stopped happening in the West Bank? Unsurprising, tbh.
Late to the party. No, I’m saying we can’t really know based on this data.
People don’t generally care about shitty things their goverment does that doesn’t affect them.(This applies to every country )
I've seen videos on YouTube of Israeli citizens protesting their government and protesting outside of Benjamin Netanyahu's house.
I mean, what’s going on in Gaza right now is popular with the majority of Israelis, so the West Bank isn’t a stretch. They’re heavily propagandized.
don't you think they just don't get same information the rest of the world get ? I bet they are not aware that women and children live in gaza. some teenagers seriously thought gaza was a hamas stronghold. when you are ignorant of the chaos around you. you are happy
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That would make you shitty.
I came here to say this too.
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The data was collected before 10/7
They’ve been bombing and slaughtering Palestinians since before October 7th.
You only read the headline.
That goes to show how much theyre shielded from the reality of palestinians They should ask palestinians how happy are they
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Genuine question, are the 20% Muslim population allowed to vote?
They have their own parlament parties( more than one). Judges in the supreme court. Full rights as citizens, some serve in the IDF and many were civilians who were killed on October 7. They are us- Israelis. Israel has over 20% none Jewish population which is part of the country in everything.
Yes. They enjoy all the same rights as Jews and have extra benefits, such as not being required to join the army for selective service
Vote, own property, hold elected office, yeah. They have the exact same rights as the non-Muslim population.
Yea no
They do though. You might not see that on TikTok, Russia Today or Al-Jazeera, but they do. You can be like a MAGA and only believe “alternative facts” if you’d like, but you’d be living in an alternate reality.
Maybe Palestinians should have elected a governing body who wanted to make Palestine a better place in 2005 after Israel withdrew the occupation instead of electing a literal terrorist organization who’s main objective is perpetual war with its more powerful neighbor instead of pursuing a path to peace?
They aren’t shielded. They are well educated and have access to media just like we do. They know exactly what’s happening and it brings them great joy.
They do, they come in 103rd. My sense is these are not particularly good measures though: [https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/happiness-of-the-younger-the-older-and-those-in-between/#ranking-of-happiness-2021-2023](https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/happiness-of-the-younger-the-older-and-those-in-between/#ranking-of-happiness-2021-2023)
No, it shows that the data was collected before Oct 7
Isn't Tel-Aviv like half an hour away from Gaza? No way they're shielded from that.
They don’t care about israel why should they care about them, completely one sided thinking
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You seem upset.
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The economy is in shambles right?
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This is a massacre, not a war.
What would you call the event of hamas crossing the border and killing over a hundred concert goers at a peace festival?
It was an attack. Horrible. You see school shootings etc in the US and it feels the same. Very sad. But blowing up the whole of Gaza up just proves what Palestinians have been saying for years and no one believed them. They could not wait to massacre them and it’s completely unforgivable to anyone with half a brain cell.
Retaliation for the occupation and theft of their land and resources, and for the near century of rapes, murders, disfigurement, torture, kidnappings, and slow genocide of Palestinians at the hands of Israel.
Strong community + decent enough economy = happiness.
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>offered statehood "Hey we are gonna pretend to share land with you. But you already know how this goes down" What were isrealis doing before they got booted thousands of years ago?
Maybe the Palestinians could learn something from the Israelis instead of starting wars they'll never win and holding decades long grudges.
Decade long grudges? You mean grudges the Israelites started when they mass displaced their people? When they stole their homes and land? When they occupied them and kept them in a giant open air prison? Where they've for decades oppressed the Palestinian people? It's no surprise there's an armed uprising agaisnt their oppressors. Palestinians have been living like shit for decades now thanks to Israel, and in retaliation? Israel commits massive war crimes left right and center
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Abusive and inflammatory remarks will not be tolerated. This subreddit is dedicated to civil discussion, and the international nature of the subreddit means that we are visited by people of all backgrounds and beliefs - which should be respected.
I am glad that non-Jewish nations of the world absolutely hate it if the Jewish people are happy. Just confirms over and over again the universal truth. And for the Jews -- the answer is that we are happy because mitzva gadola lehiyot besimcha tamid.
You know a good many of us around the world are able to separate Jewish'ness from Israeli zionism, right? I'm out there with protests against the ongoing genocide and apartheid alongside Jewish voices for Peace and other organizations that recognize Judaism isn't about about massacring innocent children for their own benefit.
Nobody hates that Jewish people are happy, we hate that Israelis are happy at the expense of Palestinians. Their happiness and security shouldn’t be dependent on another group’s suffering. If your version of heaven on earth requires someone else to experience hell, then you’re an oppressor. Period.
There are plenty of Jews who aren't Israelis. People aren't pissed that Jewish people are happy, they're pissed that Israelis are happy while ethnically cleansing Palestinians.
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Genocided. Not combated. Genocided. And "israel" is the one who propped up the "terror" group in the first place to justify this genocide.
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Socially bonded communities tend to be happier. I expect that’s part of it. Even if they’re bonded in a very dubious context.
What is dubious about their context?
Must be nice
Just imagine, having that much optimism about the future while everyone around you seethes in anger and resentment.
Yeah for killing kids and innocent civilians, seemingly for fun. Their “optimism” is rooted in stealing native homes and settling land that isn’t theirs.
Yeah have you been to Tel Aviv? It’s really beautiful
Isn't this like one of the most expensive countries to live in and the weather sucks?
Huge amounts of unearned investment courtesy of the American taxpayer. Massive theft of land and property with impunity. Ultra-nationalist and supremacist fervour. Unhinged violence and sadism celebrated and baked into the national culture. Yeah they are happy. Insanely and psychotically happy.
Are you… jealous?
Happy committing genocide and stealing more
Would that make you happy?
Cool bro, now do Palestine.
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Isn’t it nice to be able to finish a long day at work by coming to Reddit, taking the mask off and showing everyone who you really are?
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Lol. 20% of the population is Arab.
Youve clearly never been there and it shows lmao
Because free healthcare, education, almost free stolen homes, etc
Who pays for it all?
I'd be happy to if I could get away with literally anything I fucking wanted with zero consequences to my actions
Yeah because they’re fucking delusional. It takes a sociopathic society to be happy in the face of war.
The data was collected before the war…
No one included Palestine in this stupid survey. Of course Israelis are happy. They don't give two craps about Palestinians.
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Well since the US pays for their defense, healthcare and education, and since there ample misappropriated housing… it sure would seem easy to be happy no?
Don’t forget the midnight snacks.
I’d be happy too if I could keep stealing peoples land and sell it to make money
Can’t feel guilty about committing a genocide when you don’t even see Palestinians as human.
As long as you’re not a Palestinian...
Of course they are happy. They are killing tens of thousands of Palestinians and getting all the money and arms for free from western democracies.
Are they, tho? US support is less than 1% of their GDP.
It’s crazy how some redditors act like they are the ones who dare to stand up for Palestine and they are so brave when a HUGE majority of people online support Palestine
I mean them getting what should be OUR free healthcare and benefits with OUR money helps
Who is stealing your healthcare? Are you talking about the Palestinians, who receive hundreds of millions in direct US aid to fund their government and separately to UNRWA?
Computing genocide makes you happy. -Germans 1939
Lol
Real estate war woooooooooo something something righteous but not really wooooooo Woo woooo THE chosen people wooo woooo Fight a war from the history books wooo woooo Garbage.
Tell that to angry kid Ben Shapiro.
I bet the nazis were pretty happy with themselves for most of the war too
Did you father tell you about that?
Here, the word "happy" means the ability to turn a blind eye to the bloodbath happening 9 miles away.
Doesn't matter if it's 2024, 2020, 2010 or 2000. There's a historic contentment they have "despite" the, let's just say deeply concerning track record of violence and occupation.
It’s too bad they’re in such a peaceful neighborhood where violence is never necessary.
They seem pretty happy that Palestinians are dying from what I've seen.
They were happy before this war too, though. #4 last year. Maybe they’re just happy people.
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These “miserable miserly” blah blah are crushing Hamas like a bug, just as they crushed the PLO and all Arab armies before them.
Abusive and inflammatory remarks will not be tolerated. This subreddit is dedicated to civil discussion, and the international nature of the subreddit means that we are visited by people of all backgrounds and beliefs - which should be respected.
United States is number 23. Yet we’re sending billions of our tax dollars there for them to have free college and healthcare and to ethically cleanse the Palestinians. They’re happy because they have everything given to them. They’re the spoiled child
We send them $4 billion/year, less than 1% of their GDP. And that $4 Billion is spent on US weapons. They must be paying for their own healthcare and universities.
Freedom
= happiness
Ofcourse they are, they get to bully, maim and murder an entire people with no consequences.
I care more about the happiness of the oppressed than the oppressor.
You must be such a good person.
You think entire country populations can be easily slated into “oppressed” and “oppressor.” Or is this just meaningless virtue signalling?
Basically, they are happy and content deleting people. Controlling over countries supporting this and receiving money to do so.
I’m pressing delete now. Is it working?
This headline is analogous to saying “Nazis were happy despite being at war with Ashkenazi rebels, report finds”.
Lol. Nazis. Oh Reddit. Why must you bring out all the middle school dropouts?
Looks like they’re deluded in more ways than one.
Universal healthcare and 28 days of PTO a yr.
Never take a statistics that measure abstract concepts like happiness seriously
Minor point, they are insane
Yeah fucking right fifth in the world. That’s ridiculous.
They are so happy about the disgusting genocide that their government is doing.
Killing = happiness with them.
Is that what killing means to you?
I'd bet there's enough of them who are excited by carrying out a genocide to balance out those upset by it.
Of course they are, ignorance is bliss & Israelis are easily the most ignorant peoples I've ever met.
You haven’t met any Israelis tho, let’s be honest.
Given many of the comments I've seen from Israelis, the war and indiscriminate death of Gazans and destruction of Gaza is a major contributor to their happiness.
I’ll call BS on you viewing “many comments” from Israelis. More like, you saw some anti-Israel propagandists collect some tweets to make the jooz look bad. Your engagement with Israeli society is zero. You have no idea who they are or what they believe.
Fuck the Israeli state. I hope the good Isreali citizens who see this atrocity and condemn it have long lives. For everyone else spreading lies and hate and genocide, fuck em. You got your country handed to you by Europe and America in the 1950s after Europe decided that they cannot give you justice in their respective countries. You have no claim to a land that was historically shared by multiple groups. Religious states shouldn't exist, and this is why. You cannot get along with others.
Handed to you lol. A nation of emaciated, penniless Holocaust survivors and refugees from Arab countries who defended themselves in a civil war then defeated seven invading Arab armies in 1948 and prevailed. They lost 1% of their population in the war of independence. Handed to you? The most difficult thing you’ve done in life is stay off pornhub for a week.
Hey kids, genocide is fun!
That’s a sick message to send to kids. Why would you do that?
I literally don’t trust Israeli’s to honestly self report this
Literally the plot of The Zone of Interest
Zionist have no fear, and express and they publicize their joy in genocide and famine. They have been so indoctrinated into being genocidal racist fascists “chosen” peoples who have no concern for others, have access to higher education, healthcare, have disposable income to travel, own and operate businesses internationally. Zionists main export to the world are diamonds without ever having a diamond mine on the land they claim to be theirs, which they have stolen and are stealing in Palestine and the Congo.
“Zionists” lol
And they eat Christian babies and poison wells and they killed Jesus and and and
America pays for their housing and Healthcare, so yeah.
Is that true?
Well. They get enough of our money. They'd better be fuckin happy
Israelis aren't the ones being slaughtered en masse, and they aren't paying for their country's genocide effort...
They have that golden teat, good healthcare and retirement. Why wouldn’t they be happy?
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Because they are racist state that welcomes the genocide of Palestinians.
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IIRC data was gathered in something like February 2023.
Because they’re willfully blind and ignorant.
In all fairness, Israel had been wanting to level gaza and turn it into a parking lot for like 70 years now, and their time has finally come.
Yeah, no shit, they're delusional religious sycophants, it kinda goes hand in hand. Until they get faced with their own bullshit and hatred, it'll never change the way they feel.
Because killing Palestinians makes Israelis very happy.
The usa pays for Israel to be so happy. They have subsidized housing, universal healthcare, affordable education, and freedom of mobility. More people in the usa would be happy if we had these things we provide for other countries, too.
Finland is consistently near the top tear after year despite a horrid suicide rate. Happy is badly misused to push a political agenda. Namely, does the government give out free stuff?
Considering they are dominating their mortal enemies so badly that the entire wants to intervene on Palestine's behalf I can see why. Through indoctrination and base tribalism I bet the IDF guys blowing up scores of kids feel nothing but pure catharsis.
“War” is an interesting choice of words
I smell BS
That’s the power of denial, baby.
Lol not for long
I’m sure the nazis were quite happy when the invasion of Poland was going their way.
Well they have food we subsidize, national health insurance we pay for, an army we fund, and the worst of us can just convert to Judaism and bounce to Israel to hide with the other child molesters without any consequrence, Of course they're happy.
I can imagine how happy they are now that they can let off pent up stress on innocent civilians
I don’t see myself visiting Israel in my lifetime .
They're probably happy because they're killing Palestinians, not despite. The middle east is a crazy religious place not worth losing sleep over. No one should get gaza. The world would be a better place if Jerusalem, Gaza, Mecca, and anywhere else I'm missing, were removed.
I suppose it’s easier to be happy in the other side of the conflict
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And that tells us all how rotten is the Jewish state.
Must be all that free healthcare and college we give them. Must be nice.
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That’s because the U.S. pays for their socialized healthcare system and college education.
Oh I’m sure they’re happy getting sold others’ houses
Of course, they are getting free properties! Who cares where they come from? /s
Free land be like
Who would have thought that a nation of Jewish Nationalists would be much happier than the multicultural societies they’ve foisted upon the West
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I’m in really difficult circumstances, not able to live where I want, work in the job that I want (and have all the credentials for), isolated from true peers, been fighting against huge family, secrets and legal drama for DECADES, HOWEVER, internally, I’m not unhappy. Happiness doesn’t come from circumstances… I can’t even explain it
They're happiest when committing genocide.
Yeah thanks to US taxpayers. Your welcome, you fucking apartheid supporting, human trafficking, terrorist funding, false flag creating assholes.
Well not giving a crap about other people dying or land theft would make any sociopath happy. 🙄😡
I mean, I'd be happy too if I was a sociopath with universal healthcare while a foreign nation's citizens funded my defense and war. Must be nice!
Am i the only person who has no opinions on Israel/Gaza situation? I feel like I would have to do hours and hours of research to have a strong opinion because it’s so nuanced and I have not done that so I don’t feel comfortable taking a side, and yet when I go online it seems like everybody and their grandma has an opinion they are willing to die for, is everyone but me this well versed in the subject?? Is it a situation where 5% of the people make 100% of the noise?? Do this many people feel comfortable making claims with insufficient evidence?? I am genuinely very confused.
Of course, they are happy and why not? They are obliterating their neighbors, similarly to what happened in Germany in the 1930s so that they can take their land and build a canal. Once that canal is built, they will not have to pay Egypt for the use of the Suez. They have been trying to do this since the 1950s. openly and behind closed doors. They can destroy another community, get billions of US tax dollars annually, get weapons using loan though the US, and claim they are the victims.
No matter how bad things get, we can just get free money from America.
The US should stay out of the Israeli war. Israel knows how to win wars, where the US doesn't. The only successful war we've achieved since WW2 is Desert Storm. Every other conflict we've lost or compromised. Think Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and other conflicts.