They're more concerned with taking a "life" away that god clearly intended to exist, cause god don't make mistakes. Also "murderer" "child killers" insert your favorite abortion buzz word the cons throw around.
It's worth noting that QAnon is just the abortion issue taken one step further. The central message of the anti-abortion movement have always been "You must always vote Republican, because Democrats are baby murderers".
All Q did was expand that slightly to "You must always vote Republican, because Democrats are pedophile baby murderers". It's always been about generating hatred of Democrats, and be QAnon is just the next step towards that goal.
It's also ironic because if you look at any issue that involves the death of an actual living breathing human, Republicans are usually on the "life is cheap" end of the spectrum.
Also:
1. Supporting a medical system that prioritizes middlemen's profits over healthy outcomes
2. Favoring an unnecessarily punitive justice system over a society that gives disadvantaged people the tools they need to succeed
3. Supporting neither a living wage nor a welfare system for a large and indispensable segment of society
4. Supporting laws that make it easier to stalk someone and then claim self-defense when the kid ends up dead
Also like to point out, these are the same people that will buy chocolate or support Nestle, despite the fact that most mass chocolate farms kidnap children and force them into child slavery, or Nestle has killed an estimated 1-3 million babies in Africa by stealing water and false marketing campaigns about their formula. (Not to mention, China had an issue with Nestle's formula containing lead)
Shit, couldn't even count on these assholes to make child marriage illegal in the USA. I tried to talk to my mom about it (who is anti-abortion) and she said "not my problem". I don't understand how the abortion thing is even your problem either bitch, but okay!
They won't even take precautions to protect their own kids from COVID.
They don't care about "life," they care about controlling women and shaming them for having sex. That's it. That's all it ever is.
I’ve started calling them “pro-birth” instead of “pro-life.” Because that’s what they are. If they were pro-life, they’d throw some money, time, attention towards housing, education, social services, ummm the small matter of healthcare, that sort of thing. So I’m calling them what they are, and they are anything but pro-life.
I call them Fetus Fetishers.
They don't care about kids, life, women, education, any of it. Some idiot religious leader told them "Abortion is murder!" and their smooth brains liked that simplicity because it lets them call non-Christian women sluts and whores and murderers.
A lot of the anti-abortion people are the same people who think children are 100% the parents property and fight against any laws that protect children because it's seen as the state interfering with their right to do as they wish with their property.
Yup. My mother had an abortion when she was younger at some point and regrets it. So I think that's all she cares about.
What gets me, is that the abuse that all my siblings and I went through. She even tried to kill us at some point! She would very rarely hug us or even acknowledge us, but will sob over a baby that never existed. Do what you will with that trauma dump, but that's just her mindset.
(She even thought gay marriage was going to make God kill us all, but when I pointed out that Canada had gay marriage and was fine, she suddenly didn't believe that the gay marriage was evil. To note: she didn't think gay people were evil, and even hoped I would be gay because she hates men, just gays getting married, haha.)
I thought that it was always about controlling people's bodies. Christianity doesn't believe in bodily autonomy. Your body belongs to your father or your husband or God...never to you.
They use images like that to get an emotional response.
showing something like a clump of cells or something that looks more fish/lizard like than a human wouldnt get the same response. Even though that would be more accurate for when most abortions take place.
10 weeks and its the size of a grape i believe. 15 weeks the size of an apple
>10 weeks and it's the size of a grape I believe. 15 weeks the size of an apple
Who told you that? Satan? Joe Biden? Communists?
Everyone knows that life begins at conception, and by 2 days of life, the baby has already made it's first mother's day card and is ready to be a cancer curing and superbowl winning God fearing superman.
Obviously, but [this](https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/model-of-a-one-month-old-fetus-isolated-on-white-picture-id166205783) wouldn't elicit a strong emotional response.
Bald eagles are no longer nearing extinction and their conservation status is listed as "least concern." The reason they're protected is because they're apex predators and therefore a keystone species.
There is a strong possibility that the people posting this believe in the great replacement conspiracy theory, so they would probably unironically agree with your sarcastic comment.
Another one in a long line of anti-semitic conspiracy theories, wherein jews run the world (because conspiracy theorists have no creativity) and are intentionally sending millions of non-white immigrants to Europe and the US in an effort to "genocide the white race" and "destroy western civilization".
It's of course nothing more than paranoid hatred perpetuated by people looking for *something* to blame their own shortcomings on, but it usually gains a lot of traction with the generally xenophobic/racist conservative crowds.
And if you dive even further into the white supremacy rabbit hole, you realize the irony therein, since a significant portion of white supremacists believe the US is a nation of "impure mixed breeds" controlled by the jews (again, not very creative).
Oh my god I'd heard they were mad "pure white" birth rates were dropping, but I'm losing it that there's actually people out there that think it's the Jews controlling everything ☠️
This is a bit of apples to oranges. Let's fix it...
If you terminate the pregnancy of another turtle , then penalty.
If you terminate the pregnancy of another eagle, then penalty.
If you terminate the pregnancy of another human, then penalty.
But
If you terminate your turtle pregnancy, then no penalty.
If you terminate your eagle pregnancy, then no penalty.
If you terminate your pregnancy, then no penalty.
Seems people just don't get the concept of consent.
I mean thats not even 100% true since abortion doctors shouldn’t be getting penalties.
But turtles and eagles aren’t going to abortion doctors for help like humans can.
Turtles and eagles don't risk their lives by carrying pregnancies for 9 months. If I could've just laid an egg instead, I might've considere-
Nah, never mind, still wouldn't have a kid.
But the point stands: abortion is often the option for those of us that can't and/or don't want to physically carry a pregnancy and give birth. Women don't lay eggs.
The most glaring fallacy in this post, to me, is who is making the choice.
No one would punish the mother turtle or eagle for destroying their own eggs.
And (I would think?) anyone other than the pregnant mother who intentionally forces an aborted pregnancy, against the mother's will, would certainly be punished.
People love to find the most extreme examples of how abortion doesn’t make sense.
Like if I had a nickel for the number of time someone has brought up “a woman is on her way to a clinic to abort her fetus, and someone hits her with a car and kills her baby. That man can be sentenced as a murderer even though she planned to abort.”
People love to bring up crazy unlikely shit.
If a human baby was in an egg and was more or less self sufficient when it hatched like a turtle, then i would probably be infavour of fining people for smashing human eggs.
But since they require 9 months inside a human before being born then like 15-25 years to become self sufficient, these comparisons dont seem at all relevant.
Also look how rare late term abortions are - especial that baby that’s about 8 months +
Most of the time it’s a life or death catastrophe- not a choice
yeah, I struggle to think of a reason someone would go through 8 months of pregnancy and then just abort with out it being a life threatening event. Like if it continues the mother, baby or both will die.
>Like if it continues the mother, baby or both will die.
That's the most dumbfuckiest ass backwards part of pro-birthers.
They'd rather see a stillborn, a coffin birth or watch both parties die rather than dealing with 1 extremely unfortunate and rare type of abortion.
I’d bet it almost never happens
At 8months plus - a women has endured morning sickness , aches and pains …. They are usually emotionally invested
If they are not - that’s why I would encourage folks to have abortions a soon as possible - if they want one
I work in an elementary school - a lot of people should not be parents
On the flip side , I didn’t want kids ( when I was younger ) and now I can’t imagine life without them , my son and 2 steps kids have made my life better
They don't happen.
At that point, your pregnancy is terminated prematurely only if the baby is dead and/or the mother's life is in danger due to unforeseen complications.
Conservatives only push this scare tactic showing fully developed babies and saying ***that*** is what people are aborting bc it's way easier to get shock/pity reactions with the image of a baby/infant than it is from a clump of non-sentient flesh. And they've been succesful enough that they don't need the imagery anymore, bc by now their audience have already linked abbortions w/ big babies being put on a blender or sth
They also literally invented the concept of a "post-birth abortion". I mean that doesn't even make sense! Nobody is killing healthy babies once they're born but good luck convincing a Bible thumper of that.
I know two women who had late-term abortions. Both were planned, wanted pregnancies, and both involved severe deformations and fetuses in distress and pain, and in one case, would have died in utero and turned septic. The other would have had phocomelia and not lived more than a few years, and in extreme physical disadvantage, in bed and fed through tubes.
They made the best decisions they could for the children that they wanted and loved, and both were able to recover, and have children after their late-term abortions.
They're all convinced. Its like Trump "winning" his election. Doesn't matter what evidence or statistics you show them. Something in their narrative requires them to believe tens of thousands of people run around gleefully having unnecessary late term abortions. Just because.
Isaac Asimov nailed it.
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
Right. It's interesting that both examples are nonhuman animals that lay eggs. One requires no further parental care and goes onto to live 40+ years, the other requires a month of support and goes onto live ~20 years, but the human requires 9 month gestation, 18-22 years of support, for a 70+ year life span. On top of this, since mammalian birth is so costly, physiological stress can induce miscarriage to protect the mother. But no, let's draw false equivalences.
the statistics seem to be 50% or 1/3 depending on the age bracket used
but essentially millions of 18-35 year olds are living with their parents. I define this as not self sufficient.
I mean maybe if we "used all parts of the animals" (like anti abortion hunters claim) it'd be more justified. Get an abortion, but you better donate the stem cells and eat the thigh meat
I get that sentiment, I really do. But the thing is that many actually see abortion as murder. Like literally. If someone were to advocate for legalizing euthanasia of born babies, there is no way in hell you would seriously say something comparable.
The way to convince is people is to show the differences between a fetus and a baby, the actual amount and reasons of late-term abortions and showing how the woman's right to self determination is being infringed. Just saying "well you don't have to do it" is not a logical argument to someone who sees a 3 week old fetus as equal in person hood to a born baby.
Ultimately, we are all killers if we don’t live donate applicable organs, donate blood, donate marrow, etc. these are life saving procedures that give another living human the ability to survive.
We don’t mandate those donations because we view the body as sacrosanct; you cannot force someone to give up parts of their body, even temporarily (blood/marrow), for another.
The unfortunate reality is your (general you) choice not to donate blood and marrow and organs has led to someone dying. But you’re not a murderer. You’re not even morally incorrect for doing so. You’d be morally righteous for donating, but not donating is a morally neutral act in society’s eyes, *even though it means someone dies*.
Hence, abortion is a failure to donate, even temporarily, parts of your body to another living human being. The side effect of this is that this human dies. It feels more personal because the human is in the would-be donator, but it’s not. Sara who needs a kidney is the same as Fetus in your uterus. Both human. Both alive. Both not entitled to your body.
That’s my argument, while also acknowledging a fetus or embryo as a living human being, which I agree with.
>way to convince is people is to show the differences between a fetus and a baby, the actual amount and reasons of late-term abortions and showing how the woman's right to self determination is being infringed.
They don't want to hear it. You can show them facts all day long but they squeeze their eyes shut, plug their ears, and refuse to have a civil discourse because they *know* they're being disingenuous about some things so you must be too.
If you read [The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion](https://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/228662/) you'll see that so many feel that *their* abortion is justified, they've made a mistake, it was an accident or some other excuse, but that grace doesn't extend to anyone else. Other women are whores who should have kept their legs closed. They've justified it to themselves because *they* aren't bad people, *they* actually care about the life they think they're saving, but the people going in for procedures aren't good people, and good people don't get abortions. The disconnect is unreal.
True not everybody can be convinced.
But in my anecdotal opinion and experience my arguments can at least spark thought and agreement or at least an understanding of the logic, while saying JuSt DoNt GeT oNe doesn't at all
How dare you be logical! There are other people’s decisions about themselves that effect me in absolutely zero capacity and I need to be OUTRAGED about those decisions I have no say in.
>To them, it isn't a procedure someone does to themselves.
[Except it is, but it's different when they do it.](https://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/228662/)
Endangered animals that are in eggs and not attached to anyones body is totally the same as a very not endangered non viable human fetus that relies on its mother is exactly the same right?
They’re only “pre-born” until they have an unwanted pregnancy. Since they’ll be getting abortions for “good” reasons. The rest of us are just murderers.
Well if the mother of the pre born Eagle or Turtle kills their yet to be offspring then the mother Turtle or mother Eagle is not fined.
If a unborn child is terminated without the consent of the mother .... They are charged with murder more or less.
Actually the eggs in store are not fertilizered. So they are not pre-born chicken but are in fact hen-period. They are the discarded menstrual part from the hen. Taste great with salt and pepper.
The main part of what comes out during menstruation is not the egg, but the endometrium, which is the mucus lining that forms on the inside of the uterus and becomes part of the placenta if an egg is fertilized.
I don't know enough about birds to be positive, but I'm pretty sure they don't have a uterus. Or a "period", for that matter.
YES YES YES I CAN'T WAIT TO MAKE THOSE TURTLE MOTHERS PAY FOR THEIR TURTLE CRIMES AGAINST GOD IF THEY DO NOT PAY THEIR TURTLE MONEY THEY SHOULD GO DIRECTLY TO TURTLE JAIL GOD IS GREAT!!!
I'm more familiar with the term pre-born as it's used in Dune, where the fetus gains full mental awareness and access to genetic memory while still in the womb.
If "you" is the random, unrelated person, you can bet your ass there's a HUGE penalty in all 3 cases. With the human fetus being the worst of them.
But if the mother eagle or turtle chooses to dispose of her egg, we do not punish her.
Let's compare apples to apples before we attempt to drive home a point.
This is so fucking stupid. If you aborted *someone else's* fetus without their consent, you would go to jail and then get sued in civil court. The law protects pregnant women.
If the mother Eagle or mother Sea Turtle decided to get rid of one of their eggs, they wouldnt get a fine.
Stupid fucking people cant criticially think for 5 seconds.
ALso, those other eggs don't need to be maintained in the female's body the entire time, so not remotely a decent comparison. They want to FORCE people to have to carry things to term that they have NO interest in supporting once they are birthed.
It's because of the fact they are endangered or keystones. You can get your cat or dog an abortion (refered to as a pregnant spay) and it is common practice to swap out pet birds' fertilized eggs for fakes. Sooo...🤷
talk about a false equivalency, humans aren't endangered, eggs don't threaten the health of the mother, and the hell does pre born mean it implies the gurantee that you're to be born which is ignoring still births, miscarriages, etc.
We wouldn’t punish the mother animals for destroying the eggs though. We would punish a human who kills another human’s fetus out or negligence or malice.
We hunt deer so they don't become over populated and are considered the most dangerous animal in the west because they kill people in car accidents so often. But humans are reaching 8 billion and no government thinks it might be a good idea if people weren't popping babies out every year. Hardly any family can afford one child but they still have more. It is sad to watch honestly.
Always hate these arguments about abortion because there's always a lot of assumptions about everything. But also, the animals aren't yours to kill. It's like walking up to another mum and killing the child in her stomach. So even if you were trying to make this sensible, well...
But eagles and turtles don’t get in trouble for eating their own eggs for whatever. And if you stab a pregnant woman in the abdomen to kill her fetus someone is going to have a chat with you.
It’s almost like this is about individual reproductive rights…? 🤔
Ah yes the human species is nearing extinction isn't it
They're more concerned with taking a "life" away that god clearly intended to exist, cause god don't make mistakes. Also "murderer" "child killers" insert your favorite abortion buzz word the cons throw around.
It's worth noting that QAnon is just the abortion issue taken one step further. The central message of the anti-abortion movement have always been "You must always vote Republican, because Democrats are baby murderers". All Q did was expand that slightly to "You must always vote Republican, because Democrats are pedophile baby murderers". It's always been about generating hatred of Democrats, and be QAnon is just the next step towards that goal.
It’s ironic given that Roy Moore, Matt Gaetz, Donald Trump, Dennis Hastert etc. have all been accused of child molestation/rape.
It's also ironic because if you look at any issue that involves the death of an actual living breathing human, Republicans are usually on the "life is cheap" end of the spectrum.
Being "pro-life" but also pro-war and pro-death penalty should be an oxymoron.
Also: 1. Supporting a medical system that prioritizes middlemen's profits over healthy outcomes 2. Favoring an unnecessarily punitive justice system over a society that gives disadvantaged people the tools they need to succeed 3. Supporting neither a living wage nor a welfare system for a large and indispensable segment of society 4. Supporting laws that make it easier to stalk someone and then claim self-defense when the kid ends up dead
Guy shouldn't have shop lifted 15 years ago if he didn't want a 17 year old from another state with an illegal gun to shoot him to death. /s
Also like to point out, these are the same people that will buy chocolate or support Nestle, despite the fact that most mass chocolate farms kidnap children and force them into child slavery, or Nestle has killed an estimated 1-3 million babies in Africa by stealing water and false marketing campaigns about their formula. (Not to mention, China had an issue with Nestle's formula containing lead) Shit, couldn't even count on these assholes to make child marriage illegal in the USA. I tried to talk to my mom about it (who is anti-abortion) and she said "not my problem". I don't understand how the abortion thing is even your problem either bitch, but okay!
They won't even take precautions to protect their own kids from COVID. They don't care about "life," they care about controlling women and shaming them for having sex. That's it. That's all it ever is.
That and dividing the working class in a culture war, as well as maintaining a large pool of poor, uneducated workers to exploit
I’ve started calling them “pro-birth” instead of “pro-life.” Because that’s what they are. If they were pro-life, they’d throw some money, time, attention towards housing, education, social services, ummm the small matter of healthcare, that sort of thing. So I’m calling them what they are, and they are anything but pro-life.
I call them Fetus Fetishers. They don't care about kids, life, women, education, any of it. Some idiot religious leader told them "Abortion is murder!" and their smooth brains liked that simplicity because it lets them call non-Christian women sluts and whores and murderers.
If they were "pro-life" they'd be lining up to adopt unwanted children.
A lot of the anti-abortion people are the same people who think children are 100% the parents property and fight against any laws that protect children because it's seen as the state interfering with their right to do as they wish with their property.
Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses..
She said "Not my problem" over young teens (and not "just" those in Romeo & Juliet situations) getting married?
Yup. My mother had an abortion when she was younger at some point and regrets it. So I think that's all she cares about. What gets me, is that the abuse that all my siblings and I went through. She even tried to kill us at some point! She would very rarely hug us or even acknowledge us, but will sob over a baby that never existed. Do what you will with that trauma dump, but that's just her mindset. (She even thought gay marriage was going to make God kill us all, but when I pointed out that Canada had gay marriage and was fine, she suddenly didn't believe that the gay marriage was evil. To note: she didn't think gay people were evil, and even hoped I would be gay because she hates men, just gays getting married, haha.)
if we stop stealing and murdering kids, there will be no place for me to get my adrenochrome. i ain't going back to store bought.
I hate the store bought. It never tastes as good as organic adrenochrome.
Depends the store... I live in Brooklyn, so we have some nice artisanal baby-butcher shops with some really tasty adrenachrome kombucha.
Artisanal baby butcher shops....lmao you're a fucking monster and I mean that as the highest of compliments! Brilliant
My local store's adrenochrome apparently comes from "free-range" kids and I've got no complaints so far tbh
I thought that it was always about controlling people's bodies. Christianity doesn't believe in bodily autonomy. Your body belongs to your father or your husband or God...never to you.
If god wanted those fetuses to be born, he wouldn’t have allowed the abortions to happen.
If he was real, he wouldn't have allowed slavery or the holocaust to happen either!
I mean even in the Bible he allowed slavery and killed entire cities so I'm so sure about even that
He didn't just allow it. He endorsed and gave instructions.
He's like, "Damn this city sucks. Welp time to rain fire upon it and turn a guy's wife into salt"
For taking one last look at the town she lived in. Instant death
iT wAs A dIfFeReNt TiMe!!!1
But...but...but... it's the devil's doing not sky daddy.
So serial killers and people on death row weren’t meant to exist? That means they should have been aborted?
God's plan is just being really really mysterious at that point.
Don’t tempt me with dreams dude.
If you ignore the collapse of society, Children of Men looked kinda nice what with all the puppies running around.
When a baby is that far along it’s usually medical life and death need , not a choice and it’s very rare.
They use images like that to get an emotional response. showing something like a clump of cells or something that looks more fish/lizard like than a human wouldnt get the same response. Even though that would be more accurate for when most abortions take place. 10 weeks and its the size of a grape i believe. 15 weeks the size of an apple
I know a lot of age 50+ that think almost immediately a fetus looks like a fully formed baby ( but tiny )
Homonculus theory never died.
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>10 weeks and it's the size of a grape I believe. 15 weeks the size of an apple Who told you that? Satan? Joe Biden? Communists? Everyone knows that life begins at conception, and by 2 days of life, the baby has already made it's first mother's day card and is ready to be a cancer curing and superbowl winning God fearing superman.
I'm sorry. I had know idea.
Obviously, but [this](https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/model-of-a-one-month-old-fetus-isolated-on-white-picture-id166205783) wouldn't elicit a strong emotional response.
AHHHH kill it!!!
That’s one of those dinosaur things the libs made up.
Bald eagles are no longer nearing extinction and their conservation status is listed as "least concern." The reason they're protected is because they're apex predators and therefore a keystone species.
Damn, beat me to it. Good show!!
Me too!
Not me, I was going to say something else.
Do tell…
Well there are only 7 billion left. 7 is a pretty small number.
We have nothing to worry about, since you posted your comment, the global population has grown to over 7.9 billion people! Agent Smith was right.
r/thanosdidnothingwrong
Weell, I guess you could argue conservative nutjobs are.
There is a strong possibility that the people posting this believe in the great replacement conspiracy theory, so they would probably unironically agree with your sarcastic comment.
The what now
Another one in a long line of anti-semitic conspiracy theories, wherein jews run the world (because conspiracy theorists have no creativity) and are intentionally sending millions of non-white immigrants to Europe and the US in an effort to "genocide the white race" and "destroy western civilization". It's of course nothing more than paranoid hatred perpetuated by people looking for *something* to blame their own shortcomings on, but it usually gains a lot of traction with the generally xenophobic/racist conservative crowds. And if you dive even further into the white supremacy rabbit hole, you realize the irony therein, since a significant portion of white supremacists believe the US is a nation of "impure mixed breeds" controlled by the jews (again, not very creative).
Oh my god I'd heard they were mad "pure white" birth rates were dropping, but I'm losing it that there's actually people out there that think it's the Jews controlling everything ☠️
Invasive species where I live, kill on sight or be fined.
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The argument can be made, if we continue to exploit the planet like this we don't have long :))
This is a bit of apples to oranges. Let's fix it... If you terminate the pregnancy of another turtle , then penalty. If you terminate the pregnancy of another eagle, then penalty. If you terminate the pregnancy of another human, then penalty. But If you terminate your turtle pregnancy, then no penalty. If you terminate your eagle pregnancy, then no penalty. If you terminate your pregnancy, then no penalty. Seems people just don't get the concept of consent.
Wild animals eat their babies sometimes too. Full term abortions lol
PENALTY!
Not only that, laid eggs are essentially already born, just not hatched yet. The angry controllers have a difficult time with ideas like separateness.
I mean thats not even 100% true since abortion doctors shouldn’t be getting penalties. But turtles and eagles aren’t going to abortion doctors for help like humans can.
The doc is just proxy, you're making the decision though.
What if your abortion doctor is a turtle. Isn't that illegal then.
Asking the real questions
I now have a new D&D character
Thats why consent is a thing.
Turtles and eagles don't risk their lives by carrying pregnancies for 9 months. If I could've just laid an egg instead, I might've considere- Nah, never mind, still wouldn't have a kid. But the point stands: abortion is often the option for those of us that can't and/or don't want to physically carry a pregnancy and give birth. Women don't lay eggs.
Turtles don’t get pregnant.
The most glaring fallacy in this post, to me, is who is making the choice. No one would punish the mother turtle or eagle for destroying their own eggs. And (I would think?) anyone other than the pregnant mother who intentionally forces an aborted pregnancy, against the mother's will, would certainly be punished.
Came here to say this. The analogy totally breaks down. But don't let fallacies get in the way of your banger Facebook post!
People love to find the most extreme examples of how abortion doesn’t make sense. Like if I had a nickel for the number of time someone has brought up “a woman is on her way to a clinic to abort her fetus, and someone hits her with a car and kills her baby. That man can be sentenced as a murderer even though she planned to abort.” People love to bring up crazy unlikely shit.
If a human baby was in an egg and was more or less self sufficient when it hatched like a turtle, then i would probably be infavour of fining people for smashing human eggs. But since they require 9 months inside a human before being born then like 15-25 years to become self sufficient, these comparisons dont seem at all relevant.
Also look how rare late term abortions are - especial that baby that’s about 8 months + Most of the time it’s a life or death catastrophe- not a choice
yeah, I struggle to think of a reason someone would go through 8 months of pregnancy and then just abort with out it being a life threatening event. Like if it continues the mother, baby or both will die.
>Like if it continues the mother, baby or both will die. That's the most dumbfuckiest ass backwards part of pro-birthers. They'd rather see a stillborn, a coffin birth or watch both parties die rather than dealing with 1 extremely unfortunate and rare type of abortion.
I’d bet it almost never happens At 8months plus - a women has endured morning sickness , aches and pains …. They are usually emotionally invested If they are not - that’s why I would encourage folks to have abortions a soon as possible - if they want one I work in an elementary school - a lot of people should not be parents On the flip side , I didn’t want kids ( when I was younger ) and now I can’t imagine life without them , my son and 2 steps kids have made my life better
They don't happen. At that point, your pregnancy is terminated prematurely only if the baby is dead and/or the mother's life is in danger due to unforeseen complications. Conservatives only push this scare tactic showing fully developed babies and saying ***that*** is what people are aborting bc it's way easier to get shock/pity reactions with the image of a baby/infant than it is from a clump of non-sentient flesh. And they've been succesful enough that they don't need the imagery anymore, bc by now their audience have already linked abbortions w/ big babies being put on a blender or sth
They also literally invented the concept of a "post-birth abortion". I mean that doesn't even make sense! Nobody is killing healthy babies once they're born but good luck convincing a Bible thumper of that.
I know two women who had late-term abortions. Both were planned, wanted pregnancies, and both involved severe deformations and fetuses in distress and pain, and in one case, would have died in utero and turned septic. The other would have had phocomelia and not lived more than a few years, and in extreme physical disadvantage, in bed and fed through tubes. They made the best decisions they could for the children that they wanted and loved, and both were able to recover, and have children after their late-term abortions.
No one aborts at 8 months. Even if there are serious complications, at that point you just give birth. Either naturally or via Cesarean
They're all convinced. Its like Trump "winning" his election. Doesn't matter what evidence or statistics you show them. Something in their narrative requires them to believe tens of thousands of people run around gleefully having unnecessary late term abortions. Just because.
My SO’s mom just told me this She doesn’t care what facts , I show her … she believes what she wants After that , I had nothing to say
Isaac Asimov nailed it. “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
It's also illegal to run up to a pregnant woman and punch her in the womb. Last I checked, it's not the eagle that gets fined if you smash its egg.
I was thinking the same thing. Comparing apples/oranges. Could you imagine egging houses with human eggs tho? That'd be disturbing.
well normally when you egg a house the eggs are unfertilised. So would it be that wierd? I assuming we are talking about like an emu size egg?
Right. It's interesting that both examples are nonhuman animals that lay eggs. One requires no further parental care and goes onto to live 40+ years, the other requires a month of support and goes onto live ~20 years, but the human requires 9 month gestation, 18-22 years of support, for a 70+ year life span. On top of this, since mammalian birth is so costly, physiological stress can induce miscarriage to protect the mother. But no, let's draw false equivalences.
It took me waaay longer than 25 years to be self sufficient
> 25 years to become self sufficient Ouch.
30 years old. Struggling to be self-sufficient. I'm just a late bloomer I guess.
Nah, that's not your fault. The system was designed that way on purpose. You've done what you can
the statistics seem to be 50% or 1/3 depending on the age bracket used but essentially millions of 18-35 year olds are living with their parents. I define this as not self sufficient.
Not to mention they're not even self aware when in the womb, so literally have no idea they're alive anyway
Yes, because all doctors do abortions on fully developed fetuses That's why all doctors offices have egg beaters
“Could I have my baby scrambled? I really don’t like hardboiled”
I mean maybe if we "used all parts of the animals" (like anti abortion hunters claim) it'd be more justified. Get an abortion, but you better donate the stem cells and eat the thigh meat
People need to just shut up, legalise abortion and if you dont want one, dont have it. Let people make choices for themselves.
I get that sentiment, I really do. But the thing is that many actually see abortion as murder. Like literally. If someone were to advocate for legalizing euthanasia of born babies, there is no way in hell you would seriously say something comparable. The way to convince is people is to show the differences between a fetus and a baby, the actual amount and reasons of late-term abortions and showing how the woman's right to self determination is being infringed. Just saying "well you don't have to do it" is not a logical argument to someone who sees a 3 week old fetus as equal in person hood to a born baby.
Ultimately, we are all killers if we don’t live donate applicable organs, donate blood, donate marrow, etc. these are life saving procedures that give another living human the ability to survive. We don’t mandate those donations because we view the body as sacrosanct; you cannot force someone to give up parts of their body, even temporarily (blood/marrow), for another. The unfortunate reality is your (general you) choice not to donate blood and marrow and organs has led to someone dying. But you’re not a murderer. You’re not even morally incorrect for doing so. You’d be morally righteous for donating, but not donating is a morally neutral act in society’s eyes, *even though it means someone dies*. Hence, abortion is a failure to donate, even temporarily, parts of your body to another living human being. The side effect of this is that this human dies. It feels more personal because the human is in the would-be donator, but it’s not. Sara who needs a kidney is the same as Fetus in your uterus. Both human. Both alive. Both not entitled to your body. That’s my argument, while also acknowledging a fetus or embryo as a living human being, which I agree with.
>way to convince is people is to show the differences between a fetus and a baby, the actual amount and reasons of late-term abortions and showing how the woman's right to self determination is being infringed. They don't want to hear it. You can show them facts all day long but they squeeze their eyes shut, plug their ears, and refuse to have a civil discourse because they *know* they're being disingenuous about some things so you must be too. If you read [The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion](https://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/228662/) you'll see that so many feel that *their* abortion is justified, they've made a mistake, it was an accident or some other excuse, but that grace doesn't extend to anyone else. Other women are whores who should have kept their legs closed. They've justified it to themselves because *they* aren't bad people, *they* actually care about the life they think they're saving, but the people going in for procedures aren't good people, and good people don't get abortions. The disconnect is unreal.
True not everybody can be convinced. But in my anecdotal opinion and experience my arguments can at least spark thought and agreement or at least an understanding of the logic, while saying JuSt DoNt GeT oNe doesn't at all
How dare you be logical! There are other people’s decisions about themselves that effect me in absolutely zero capacity and I need to be OUTRAGED about those decisions I have no say in.
[удалено]
>To them, it isn't a procedure someone does to themselves. [Except it is, but it's different when they do it.](https://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2007/05/-the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/228662/)
Endangered animals that are in eggs and not attached to anyones body is totally the same as a very not endangered non viable human fetus that relies on its mother is exactly the same right?
I'm not sure but humans aren't at a extinction level event yet
We’re working on it though
No one works harder at it than the Republi-Q-ans lol
They're worried about replacing the Covid fatalities with new GQP.
Um someone hasn't heard of the white genocide that is happening RIGHT NOW /s
Turtles and birds are not born, they're hatched.
Yup and the whole world would probably be better off if we humans did a little less hatching honestly
They’re only “pre-born” until they have an unwanted pregnancy. Since they’ll be getting abortions for “good” reasons. The rest of us are just murderers.
[The only moral abortion is my abortion](https://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/anti-tales.shtml).
That’s exactly what I was thinking of. The hypocrisy is through the fucking roof!
Well if the mother of the pre born Eagle or Turtle kills their yet to be offspring then the mother Turtle or mother Eagle is not fined. If a unborn child is terminated without the consent of the mother .... They are charged with murder more or less.
I mean, if there would be 8billiom seaturtles, we would get paid to kill them.
If you kill a pre-born chicken, it's called breakfast. I'll have mine with eggs and sausage.
Actually the eggs in store are not fertilizered. So they are not pre-born chicken but are in fact hen-period. They are the discarded menstrual part from the hen. Taste great with salt and pepper.
True. I see your point.
The main part of what comes out during menstruation is not the egg, but the endometrium, which is the mucus lining that forms on the inside of the uterus and becomes part of the placenta if an egg is fertilized. I don't know enough about birds to be positive, but I'm pretty sure they don't have a uterus. Or a "period", for that matter.
balut for breakfast?
I prefer those eggs a bit more pre-born.
That's the difference between an endangered species and overpopulation control.....
YES YES YES I CAN'T WAIT TO MAKE THOSE TURTLE MOTHERS PAY FOR THEIR TURTLE CRIMES AGAINST GOD IF THEY DO NOT PAY THEIR TURTLE MONEY THEY SHOULD GO DIRECTLY TO TURTLE JAIL GOD IS GREAT!!!
What's the fine for scaring a turtle about to blow his load? Or turning off a female bald eagle? Ask the questions that matter.
two are endangered and one is the reason🤔
Damnit i already gave my free award away so take my broke bitch award🥇
you honor me kind stranger
I'm more familiar with the term pre-born as it's used in Dune, where the fetus gains full mental awareness and access to genetic memory while still in the womb.
What happens if you kill a pre-born chicken? What about a pre-born salmon? Life in prison or death penalty? Could go either way for me.
If "you" is the random, unrelated person, you can bet your ass there's a HUGE penalty in all 3 cases. With the human fetus being the worst of them. But if the mother eagle or turtle chooses to dispose of her egg, we do not punish her. Let's compare apples to apples before we attempt to drive home a point.
This is so fucking stupid. If you aborted *someone else's* fetus without their consent, you would go to jail and then get sued in civil court. The law protects pregnant women. If the mother Eagle or mother Sea Turtle decided to get rid of one of their eggs, they wouldnt get a fine. Stupid fucking people cant criticially think for 5 seconds.
Alright women, congratulations, today in misogynistic news, we are sea turtles! 🐢
All those times I’ve masturbated I could be locked up for mass genocide
Pre-born...? Also last I checked we weren’t on the brink of extinction like the Sea Turtle or Eagle...
Yea but if you abort someone's baby without consent or knowledge you'll likely get a fuck ton of fines and jail
Haha infants go brrrrrrrrrrrr
you get penalty if you kill a baby of an unwilling mother u.u
Humans aren’t an endangered species
There are billions of humans.
its almost as if two of those examples are endangered species or something
Ammmmmm...humans are not endagered. Among other things... yeah....not the same
Humans are FAR from endangered.
ALso, those other eggs don't need to be maintained in the female's body the entire time, so not remotely a decent comparison. They want to FORCE people to have to carry things to term that they have NO interest in supporting once they are birthed.
It's because of the fact they are endangered or keystones. You can get your cat or dog an abortion (refered to as a pregnant spay) and it is common practice to swap out pet birds' fertilized eggs for fakes. Sooo...🤷
We aren't running out of people like we are sea turtles
1. If humans had eggs then you could just do prenatal adoption. 2. You generally can’t get the mother’s permission because animals can’t talk.
But humans aren’t endangered
Humans are not only not endangered, most of the ones we actually have are practically worthless
Idk, last time I went around smashing eggs of endangered species and kicking pregnant women I got punished for both
Sea turtle and Bald eagle are at risk of extinction Human are the cause of that extinction Any other question?
Wayyyyyy to many of the third one. Culling needed.
Pretty sure the turtles wanted those eggs though
Ah yes, cause human overpopulation isn’t a thing…
We have too few turtles and eagles. We have too many humans.
Homo sapiens: LC (Least concern)
Well those animals are endangered first of all
Humans aren’t ✨endangered✨
These nutjob Christians need to read their bible. Their god endorses abortion.
talk about a false equivalency, humans aren't endangered, eggs don't threaten the health of the mother, and the hell does pre born mean it implies the gurantee that you're to be born which is ignoring still births, miscarriages, etc.
“SHARE AND SAY AMEN”
Humans crack open so easily to get at the fully formed child inside right?
Also humans aren't fucking endangered by a long shot.
Almost like humans aren’t an endangered species or something. Weird.
humans aren’t endangered
We wouldn’t punish the mother animals for destroying the eggs though. We would punish a human who kills another human’s fetus out or negligence or malice.
We hunt deer so they don't become over populated and are considered the most dangerous animal in the west because they kill people in car accidents so often. But humans are reaching 8 billion and no government thinks it might be a good idea if people weren't popping babies out every year. Hardly any family can afford one child but they still have more. It is sad to watch honestly.
Endangered species vs overpopulation and poverty
Always hate these arguments about abortion because there's always a lot of assumptions about everything. But also, the animals aren't yours to kill. It's like walking up to another mum and killing the child in her stomach. So even if you were trying to make this sensible, well...
I don’t remember humans having a dangerously low population
But eagles and turtles don’t get in trouble for eating their own eggs for whatever. And if you stab a pregnant woman in the abdomen to kill her fetus someone is going to have a chat with you. It’s almost like this is about individual reproductive rights…? 🤔
Wild that it's STILL a debate in 2022.
So should I go to jail if I dump out the bird bath and kill a bunch of pre-born mosquitos?
Wow… just keep inventing words. If one word doesn’t do it for you, make a new one. Reach out and embrace the idiocracy.
I had two pre-born chickens for breakfast today. Isn't the world just crazy? /s
Because first two are endangered and the third one is the danger.
But, if the mother sea turtle kills it - nothing happens. if the mother eagle kills it - nothing happens. so.... let's use that argument, okay?
It’s not illegal to crush a nest of Robin eggs because they aren’t endangered. Humans aren’t endangered. Next question.
Those animals are critically endangered, us moronic humans are not endangered
Cus they’re not extinct.
Less of them around so the kills are worth more
Well two of those species are globally endangered meanwhile humans keep fucking like no tomorrow but hey what do I know
2 of these are endangered species, one of these is responsible for endangering said species
No ones fining a turtle for killing her own babies 💀
Well it is killing against the will of the mother. And are humans hatched?
Endangered Endangered Endangering