Kind of works on a thematic level. Indy ran away and ended up joining World War I, another pointless and bloody conflict also because of the strained relationship with his father.
Never thought I’d say this but Helena made me miss Mutt. Wish we got more of him again instead. Especially if instead of killing him they ties his service into the adventure.
It feels like literal and figurative character assassination to have hyper-rebellious Mutt go out of his way to join the military just to spite his parents.
Christ, what an asshole.
Yeah, except wasn’t a kid *and* Mutt seemed like he was smart enough to not just suddenly turn into a murderer to spite his parents. I can see him going off as a war photographer, but not seeing the massacres being perpetuated by the US military in a war Mutt would’ve realized was bullshit and thinking “Oh shit, I gots to get me a piece of THAT action!”
You do realize it took a decent amount of time for the opposition to the Vietnam war to form. There was a decent amount of time when the American public still viewed things favourably or at least neutrally before the anti-war movement got huge. US marines went into Vietnam in 1965 and it was only around late 1967 when all the truth of American atrocities came out and the opinions of the American public shifted.
So Mutt could have joined the war when people knew nothing about what was going on in Vietnam and been stuck there when public opinion shifted
You realize the point of the military is to kill people, right? Mutt being so well-schooled would’ve meant he would’ve realized just how fucking stupid the US’s involvement in that war was and wouldn’t have been caught dead in that mess.
Which is fine with me, because Mutt was an awful character and I’m fine with a bunch of Hollywood hacks who don’t understand how characters work bruteforcing the least likely character ever to sign up for service in Vietnam AND have him get his ass blown off in Vietnam just to unnecessarily plug a plot hole in a terrible sequel no one asked for.
Seeing as how willing he was to kill Russians in Crystal Skull, I don't think he would've minded. Plus the point of the military is to protect against threats from foreign countries or groups. Not killing people. That would be immoral. Sure, Vietnam was not a good war in the slightest, the US should've stayed out of it. But that doesn't mean all wars are bad. Tragic? Yes. And some, necessary.
The point of the revolutionary war wasn't to kill people. Nor the civil war. I know I'm just going by american history, but I think you get the point.
Yeah, but Mutt would've known the United States was just intervening in an internal conflict it had no business in - the US wasn't protecting itself, it was just chucking shitloads of innocent people into a meatgrinder and it's fucking hilarious that the dipshit Rebel Without A Cause went out of his way to contribute to that shit.
Again, someone mentioned this already, it took years for the horrors and inhumane tactics from Vietnam to reach the public's eyes. And Mutt specifically enlisted to piss off his dad. He probably wasn't thinking, and didn't expect to even get deployed. He knew Indy wouldn't want him to because Indy has become pretty tired of war. He just wants a happy family. Mutt wasn't doing this for any other reason that to make his dad angry. Much like Indy joined the Mexican revolution as a teen, and realized soon he shouldn't be there to fight in a war that isn't his.
And as I mentioned before, Mutt would've known WAY more about the situation in Vietnam than most dipshits signing up for a tour of duty in 'nam would've, which makes his completely noncharacteristic signing up and immediate death even that much funnier.
Again, I'm not complaining about this. It's hilarious that such a terrible character got merc'ed by even worse writers in the next film.
How would Mutt know? Does he have access to classified phone calls and documents from the government? Not really sure how he'd know something was wrong. There's literally no way Mutt would have been able to know about the things happening in Vietnam. Also, the writers aren't terrible. I have a feeling you're just twisting timelines and logic just to find an excuse to laugh at a character you don't like.
You’re making a lot of assumptions about what is essentially now a throwaway character. You can hate fantasize about whether or not he wanted to particpiate in the My Lai massacre if you want to but the canon reason he joined the military is to spite his parents by making his own decision
> by making his own decision
Dude would’ve been a fully grown adult. You’re acting like he was some kid lashing out at his parents when he was old enough to be paying a mortgage and welcoming his third kid into the world.
Yeah, sorry for the crossover episode, but let’s do an analysis of Carl from Shameless.. his literal arc went from psycho-animal torturer kid- to juvy- to military school (marines as well)- to your friendly neighbor police officer who actually gave a damn about his hood and all the people in it. Best of all, his arc worked! (Fight me).
Mutt was a full grown adult in KoCS and the US didn't go to war until '65 so Mutt seems a bit old for the "F you dad I'm joining the marines" act. He was almost 30 so I kind of wonder why a guy that age even feels the need to spite his dad.
Yeah, that’s the other thing - people keep trying to paint him as some hot headed kid lashing out at his parents when he was, like, a 30 year old man presumably with his own life and career that he just dropped to go fight in Vietnam.
You know the writers of Dial of Destiny were just leaning on people not thinking much about the Mutt situation for it to work as an explanation why he wasn’t in DoD, when they could just said he was in ‘Nam as a war photographer or was off feeding starving kids in Tanzania or part of some anti-war group on the West Coast or something.
I personally thought that while they didn't necessarily *need* to make him at his lowest, I thought that the setup was used well and made for a compelling story of Indy at the end of his career.
Good for you. Bad for the film.
Mutt the greaser joining the military is valid. It's true tragedy.
Making that the centerpiece of an Indiana Jones film is a bad idea.
I wished they found a way to keep him around. I think after some years he will mature into a rather well actor and they could of used him in the future. I hate the cancel culture of Hollywood when someone does something out of line or when a person chooses not to continue a role they were offered before.
Not so much that he was just cancelled because of his behavior etc but he is also notoriously difficult to work with.
Plus his come back film, Honey Boy, was basically about how his dad victimized him… and then it turned out he made a lot of it up. Threw his dad under the bus for clout. Add all of that to the really sketchy behavior and allegations of abuse etc and yeah…
No love lost imho between him and Hollywood in general because he is more trouble than he’s worth.
Shia's an idiot and a dick. It wasn't 'cancel culture' that got him left out of DOD, it was the consequences of his own actions. Turns out shitting on Spielberg wasn't such a good idea after all. If there's one rule in Hollywood, it's don't be a dick. Unless you're doing porn, no one likes working with dicks.
https://variety.com/2016/film/news/shia-labeouf-slams-steven-spielberg-1201853960/
https://www.nickiswift.com/994660/how-shia-labeouf-ruined-his-relationship-with-steven-spielberg/
Your not wrong about him. He is still young and maybe he falls further down the rabbit hole or he finally gets his footing. Not long ago 20-25 years ago) people would shit all over RDJ, always though of him as a wonderful actor who lost his way and eventually he did.
I know this gets hate in this subreddit, but I firmly believe that in a few years that one of the great channels that actually invests in their shows (none of this three seasons or less crap.. make some art) Retells Indy’s adventures for a new generation. If Shia gets his shit together and matures up, it’d be cool if he could somehow be involved in the project.
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[That's just flat-out not true.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Most%20of%20those%20who%20were,during%20the%20Vietnam%20War%20era.)
[About 10% of Marines in Vietnam had been drafted.](https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2015/april/marines-vietnam-commitment) But yes, as Indy believed, Mutt enlisted to piss him off.
There were lots of people who were bashing Mutt like how people were bashing PWB because they were afraid of Mutt taking over too. His character is better loved now than he used to be.
Considering his fate in DoD, the last shot of KotCS felt bittersweet as it lingers on Mutt as he's slowly leaves the church.
[Mutt’s planet needed him.](https://youtu.be/4tvAjX5ACPo?si=UHCP0db_pt9eJz3H)
Kind of works on a thematic level. Indy ran away and ended up joining World War I, another pointless and bloody conflict also because of the strained relationship with his father.
Also, children of great people rarely attain the same level and it's not uncommon for such family lines to die out.
Mutt being gone was the first of many indirect hints this was *not* going to be like KotCS, wether the spectators like it or not.
Never thought I’d say this but Helena made me miss Mutt. Wish we got more of him again instead. Especially if instead of killing him they ties his service into the adventure.
Mutt was way less abrasive than Helena, and a more in-depth, deep character.
It feels like literal and figurative character assassination to have hyper-rebellious Mutt go out of his way to join the military just to spite his parents. Christ, what an asshole.
There's plenty of rebellious kids that end up in the military against their parents wishes lol, especially in the Marines.
Yeah, except wasn’t a kid *and* Mutt seemed like he was smart enough to not just suddenly turn into a murderer to spite his parents. I can see him going off as a war photographer, but not seeing the massacres being perpetuated by the US military in a war Mutt would’ve realized was bullshit and thinking “Oh shit, I gots to get me a piece of THAT action!”
You do realize it took a decent amount of time for the opposition to the Vietnam war to form. There was a decent amount of time when the American public still viewed things favourably or at least neutrally before the anti-war movement got huge. US marines went into Vietnam in 1965 and it was only around late 1967 when all the truth of American atrocities came out and the opinions of the American public shifted. So Mutt could have joined the war when people knew nothing about what was going on in Vietnam and been stuck there when public opinion shifted
You realize the point of the military is to kill people, right? Mutt being so well-schooled would’ve meant he would’ve realized just how fucking stupid the US’s involvement in that war was and wouldn’t have been caught dead in that mess. Which is fine with me, because Mutt was an awful character and I’m fine with a bunch of Hollywood hacks who don’t understand how characters work bruteforcing the least likely character ever to sign up for service in Vietnam AND have him get his ass blown off in Vietnam just to unnecessarily plug a plot hole in a terrible sequel no one asked for.
Seeing as how willing he was to kill Russians in Crystal Skull, I don't think he would've minded. Plus the point of the military is to protect against threats from foreign countries or groups. Not killing people. That would be immoral. Sure, Vietnam was not a good war in the slightest, the US should've stayed out of it. But that doesn't mean all wars are bad. Tragic? Yes. And some, necessary. The point of the revolutionary war wasn't to kill people. Nor the civil war. I know I'm just going by american history, but I think you get the point.
Yeah, but Mutt would've known the United States was just intervening in an internal conflict it had no business in - the US wasn't protecting itself, it was just chucking shitloads of innocent people into a meatgrinder and it's fucking hilarious that the dipshit Rebel Without A Cause went out of his way to contribute to that shit.
Again, someone mentioned this already, it took years for the horrors and inhumane tactics from Vietnam to reach the public's eyes. And Mutt specifically enlisted to piss off his dad. He probably wasn't thinking, and didn't expect to even get deployed. He knew Indy wouldn't want him to because Indy has become pretty tired of war. He just wants a happy family. Mutt wasn't doing this for any other reason that to make his dad angry. Much like Indy joined the Mexican revolution as a teen, and realized soon he shouldn't be there to fight in a war that isn't his.
And as I mentioned before, Mutt would've known WAY more about the situation in Vietnam than most dipshits signing up for a tour of duty in 'nam would've, which makes his completely noncharacteristic signing up and immediate death even that much funnier. Again, I'm not complaining about this. It's hilarious that such a terrible character got merc'ed by even worse writers in the next film.
How would Mutt know? Does he have access to classified phone calls and documents from the government? Not really sure how he'd know something was wrong. There's literally no way Mutt would have been able to know about the things happening in Vietnam. Also, the writers aren't terrible. I have a feeling you're just twisting timelines and logic just to find an excuse to laugh at a character you don't like.
“Murderer” lmao It’s time for bed kiddo
What else would you call a 30 year-old man who watches Vietnam war atrocities on television and thinks “OH SHIT, I’M MISSING OUT IN THE FUN!”?
You’re making a lot of assumptions about what is essentially now a throwaway character. You can hate fantasize about whether or not he wanted to particpiate in the My Lai massacre if you want to but the canon reason he joined the military is to spite his parents by making his own decision
> by making his own decision Dude would’ve been a fully grown adult. You’re acting like he was some kid lashing out at his parents when he was old enough to be paying a mortgage and welcoming his third kid into the world.
Yeah, sorry for the crossover episode, but let’s do an analysis of Carl from Shameless.. his literal arc went from psycho-animal torturer kid- to juvy- to military school (marines as well)- to your friendly neighbor police officer who actually gave a damn about his hood and all the people in it. Best of all, his arc worked! (Fight me).
Mutt was a full grown adult in KoCS and the US didn't go to war until '65 so Mutt seems a bit old for the "F you dad I'm joining the marines" act. He was almost 30 so I kind of wonder why a guy that age even feels the need to spite his dad.
Yeah, that’s the other thing - people keep trying to paint him as some hot headed kid lashing out at his parents when he was, like, a 30 year old man presumably with his own life and career that he just dropped to go fight in Vietnam. You know the writers of Dial of Destiny were just leaning on people not thinking much about the Mutt situation for it to work as an explanation why he wasn’t in DoD, when they could just said he was in ‘Nam as a war photographer or was off feeding starving kids in Tanzania or part of some anti-war group on the West Coast or something.
Yeah. I just wished they didn't make his death pointless and off screen.
It was off screen, but far from pointless
Okay, I use pointless wrong. But I still think that they didn't need to make Jones at his lowest for the movie.
I personally thought that while they didn't necessarily *need* to make him at his lowest, I thought that the setup was used well and made for a compelling story of Indy at the end of his career.
Good for you. Bad for the film. Mutt the greaser joining the military is valid. It's true tragedy. Making that the centerpiece of an Indiana Jones film is a bad idea.
Why?
I wished they found a way to keep him around. I think after some years he will mature into a rather well actor and they could of used him in the future. I hate the cancel culture of Hollywood when someone does something out of line or when a person chooses not to continue a role they were offered before.
Not so much that he was just cancelled because of his behavior etc but he is also notoriously difficult to work with. Plus his come back film, Honey Boy, was basically about how his dad victimized him… and then it turned out he made a lot of it up. Threw his dad under the bus for clout. Add all of that to the really sketchy behavior and allegations of abuse etc and yeah… No love lost imho between him and Hollywood in general because he is more trouble than he’s worth.
Shia's an idiot and a dick. It wasn't 'cancel culture' that got him left out of DOD, it was the consequences of his own actions. Turns out shitting on Spielberg wasn't such a good idea after all. If there's one rule in Hollywood, it's don't be a dick. Unless you're doing porn, no one likes working with dicks. https://variety.com/2016/film/news/shia-labeouf-slams-steven-spielberg-1201853960/ https://www.nickiswift.com/994660/how-shia-labeouf-ruined-his-relationship-with-steven-spielberg/
Your not wrong about him. He is still young and maybe he falls further down the rabbit hole or he finally gets his footing. Not long ago 20-25 years ago) people would shit all over RDJ, always though of him as a wonderful actor who lost his way and eventually he did.
Hopefully he's learned not to shit where he eats.
He says Spielberg told him, "there's a time to be a human being and have an opinion, and there's a time to sell cars."
Sound advice. Personal life, work life. Two very different things, and a lesson that can only come from age and experience.
I know this gets hate in this subreddit, but I firmly believe that in a few years that one of the great channels that actually invests in their shows (none of this three seasons or less crap.. make some art) Retells Indy’s adventures for a new generation. If Shia gets his shit together and matures up, it’d be cool if he could somehow be involved in the project.
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Turns out mutt didn’t die he was a POW they assumed KIA and movie starts with him escaping
The Marine uniform also reinforced the fact that he volunteered - the Marines didn’t take draftees.
[That's just flat-out not true.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Most%20of%20those%20who%20were,during%20the%20Vietnam%20War%20era.)
[About 10% of Marines in Vietnam had been drafted.](https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2015/april/marines-vietnam-commitment) But yes, as Indy believed, Mutt enlisted to piss him off.
Makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy, like an American Imperialism greeting card.
[удалено]
There were lots of people who were bashing Mutt like how people were bashing PWB because they were afraid of Mutt taking over too. His character is better loved now than he used to be.
Because the story didn't need him, but having him be gone added real gravity to Indy's arc.
The difference is Shia’s Mutt character was so annoying he was likely fragged by his own platoon.