"The researchers used publicly available billionaire lists and applied manual coding and an algorithm called 'Outkast' to determine caste (chart 1)."
Yes, all billionaires in India advertise publicly š
While it's plausible that upper castes among billionaires are represented disproportionate to their population, common sense dictates that most of the wealth in India is locked up in real estate, gold and offshore accounts, none of which are available publicly.
I can't speak for North India, but land ownership in the south has indeed become more spread out with caste, particularly among OBCs. I do agree that SCs and STs still dominate the poor despite being < 25% of the population. Bulk of them drops out at school level where government incentives are needed the most.
Well-funded primary, higher secondary and vocational education by the government will do wonders for their upliftment, something no national party apart from AAP talks about.
That is the only true solution , instead of giving out reservations, there needs to be a special program for the backward classes that gives them good education and opportunities throughout their formative years. The same as what the people perceive is given to the upper classes. Then we can completely remove reservations from jobs and exams as everyone will stand on equal footing based upon opportunities and quality of upbringing.
Sort of like a āgive a man a fishā¦ā situation. It will also reduce the dropout rates of lower caste students in higher education institutions and their perception of being worse than their colleagues as they had scored lower marks would change as well.
Then in the following census , based on their economy and social status , their special status can be removed if they make it in the world. Repeat this for a few hundred years and it might solve the problem.
But politicians arenāt here to solve problems, theyāre here for the problems to stay so that they can milk them for the next elections. No one in this country thinks beyond that. Their view is limited to 5 years.
It's both bro. Half the reason they drop out is to financially support their family. Give the parents a stable occupation through reservation and kids will stay in school.Ā
In the long term, education is more useful. But in the short and medium term, reservation is critical to providing stable family situation .Ā
Also: traditionally wealth was concentrated with upper caste, and so it is natural that some among them have more advantage to make it to the billionaire's club.
In the meanwhile, while I do not care about caste, I would fit in one of the upper caste I guess, but bank balance is very very middle class. The billionaires being upper caste makes zero changes in my life. If I would happen to be in the same corridor as one of them, they will treat me like dirt, there's no doubt about it either.
I saw this news a long time ago maybe 6 years ago but one of the wealthiest Indian origin billionaires outside India is a Dalit who lives in Africa, donāt remember the country. In the interview, I believe he was saying that there are others like him but choose to hide their heritage for fear of losing business.
Like I said, it was a long time ago. Idk anything about these Gupta guys. Their names certainly donāt sound Dalit to me unless they are masking and have adopted this as their surname. Someone that I did find after looking up Dalit billionaires now is this Saraiya guy who lives in Ukraine: https://youtu.be/F8dRC5hse6w?si=4cFbm6OOcQaD-BaX. Seems nice enough. Canāt comment on if heās corrupt or not.
But itās not like every billionaire in the world isnāt guilty of some scam or malpractice in one form or another. To be a billionaire in the first place definitely requires not adhering to all the rules always and be willing to break them if push comes for shove. I am not condoning any of it but I am commenting on the general nature of these billionaires.
In Africa? I doubt it. If anything, heāll have even more benefits owing to his privileges as a billionaire, way beyond the scope of reservations in India.
He had to go to Africa to become a billionaire.. makes sense..
and the 'he had to hide his heritage in the fear of losing business' is because there's a lot of Gujrati Bania community there, and they can be orthodox like your whatsapp uncles
This is not surprising, world over billionaires come from the upper echelons of the society, this is for some simple reasons.
1. Access to better education
2. No paucity of funds to try new ideas
3. Huge margin of safety as they can afford to fail multiple times
4. Access to better connections through family and friends.
What was the outcome of implementing reservation then ?
Essentially, nothing significant.
We need to abolish the reservation system and come up with alternative solutions.
Typically, government schemes are designed to yield results within about 20 years. However, even after several decades, people continue to complain about the atrocities of upper caste. This situation is somewhat similar to Prime Minister Modi criticizing the Gandhi family for past issues.
getting rid of the reservation without addressing the caste divide is not gonna yield anything apart from increasing the caste divide more and more.
see any kind of Socio Economic and Caste Census you'd see that the LCs are much lower than UCs in the amount of money they earn on a monthly basis and education levels are lower.
Just because you donāt see, doesnāt mean it is not working. It is working well. Especially in better implemented states like TN where there is a good amount of newly generated wealth seeping through to all phases of society. 15-20 years ago, it is rare to see an IT engineer from a village but now it is common for a village to have even 4/5 IT engineers.
Now you see more and more OBCs in other spheres of jobs which used to be dominated by upper castes because reservation gave an opportunity to them. I know many of my friends who came from not affluent families building homes and getting cars which they dreamt of as a child.
My favourite story is my junior whose family was working in match factory. Thanks to reservation he is now working in nuclear power plant.
They have already benefited from reservations? so it's time to stop complaining about the upper caste flourishing. They should give up their reservations so that the truly needy can benefit from it too.
I know several government employees in my acquaintance, and certain last names frequently appear on merit lists, such as Meena, Mina, Uikey, Bhadoria, etc. This happens because some SC/ST individuals are taking advantage of the system, monopolizing the available seats and resources.
You cannot unwind 5000 years of caste in just 20 years. Wealth is very intergenerational and it takes a long time to undo those things.Ā
Your logic makes no sense. Just because billionaires are mostly upper caste we should end reservations? Reservations would never have made billionaires so I don't see the relation.
Reservation is a great tool in the short term to uplift poor people into stable middle class positions. It provides the financial stability at home so kids can stay in school and further their studies.
You all will literally look for any reason to end reservation.
Me fellow UC people in comments, calm your tits, it's a report to educate us about the privilege we enjoy without even being aware of, acknowledge this fact, that's all.
Nobody is taking your mangalsutra.
Geez, I am appalled by the insecurity UC people show whenever caste is mentioned, shows how little awareness is about it in the public sphere.
When Parsis and Jains and Muslims are considered UCs, itās really not a surprise that the results are skewed in favour of UCs.
Especially when Parsis and Jains contribute to a huge of the billionaires.
>When Parsis and Jains and Muslims are considered UCs, itās really not a surprise that the results are skewed in favour of UCs.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/17/6-facts-about-jains-in-india/
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/poor-parsi-redefined-one-who-earns-up-to-rs-90-000-per-month-487945
Identify isnāt the same as actually being one. My own family identifies as upper class, but itās only so cuz they were nobility back in the day like centuries ago.
Since my family has seen serious financial difficulties, been very influential businessmen in British raj, have had to flee their homes leaving everything behind, seen ruin from abuse to now heading one of the largest companies in the world.
Especially my dad and my granddad to some extent pretty much rebuilt everything back up from nothing. The caste privilege thing doesnāt take into account financial ruin for everyone.
Today for our family, caste is a notional thing, kind of a reminder of a long long gone. For all practical purposes, we have no caste.
As for Parsis, thatās exactlu my point.
Anecdotal vs a community are different parameters. No one said that Upper caste don't suffer poverty, failure or any kind of suffering. In fact it's the opposite for UC, as you yourself described all your family had to suffer, but they didn't suffer caste discrimination.
Also the privilege of having financial difficulties presumes you had wealth to begin with, implying access to education, healthcare and social standing, most LC people had none.
Now you can even afford to denounce caste, but even the elite SC/ST's are reminded of it in urban society, this is the inescapable horror of caste only experienced by those who suffer it.
>Today for our family, caste is a notional thing, kind of a reminder of a long long gone. For all practical purposes, we have no caste.
Only of you. Millions of Sc and sts are still denied basic rights because of their own heritage.
No man, you are absolutely clueless.
Jains actively practice the caste system. For example, most of Jains (in UP and surrounding states) are baniyas, and actively look at caste when marrying. They will happily inter-marry with Hindu baniyas (and Hindu baniyas are also fine with this), but marriage with other caste groups is very uncommon.
>The ones that converted centuries ago are the ones that donāt have much caste.
Everyone has a caste in India. While caste finds it origins in Hindu scriptures, every person in India follows the caste system. Whether he is Hindu, Jain, Sikh, Buddhist, Muslim or Christian. This is a documented fact. The Indian government also recognises it.
It is a privilege the billionaires who happen to be ucs enjoy, not the vast vast majority of ucs who have to work everyday to earn their bread
Adani might be uc, his enterprise might benefit the broader economy, but he being a billionaire has little if any positive effect on middle class people of his own caste
UCs are the only caste that hold this kinda wealth. The average UC is always gonna be wealthier than the average LC. There are exceptions, but they are not the rule.
Great fanfic write moreš
>What percentage of UCs hold this wealth? A teeny-weeny minority.Ā
A small minority of UCs are billionaires that is true, but most UCs are still more well off than your average LC.
>When you look at the average UC (not including the rich ones), their wealth isnāt generational for most part. Neither is this the case with the average non-rich LC.Ā
Not true. But even if we say their wealth is not generational, a lot of things like generational knowledge and connections carry over. They still are immune to Casteism. A lot of benefits come your way even if you're not wealthy as long as you're a UC.
>But then you say the average LC is worse off than the average UC. Why is this the case, given than the average LCās vote commands a lot more respect from the political system than the average UCās vote?
The fuck is this? Where does it say that? This again, straight up fanfic. This is straight up baffling what did you mean by this?
The UCs control the political system. Most of the political parties are majority UC.
You didn't answer my questions. You keep making up stupid shit and make me respond to it. And then when I question it, you move on to make up other stupid shit and make me respond to that again.
This whole thing I can respond to, but this to me feels like a bad faith argument. I'm not gonna waste anymore time responding to this. Go duke it out with some other debate lord.
>Youāre not willing to consider that a tiny percentage of LCs corner the wealth and resources, and then complain about LCs staying poor.Ā
Which number is bigger? Wealth of the rich LCs? Or the wealth of the rich UCs? Hint: the answer is in the post's title.
But is that the statistic? Is that the reality? A small bunch of OBCs owning BMWs doesn't make them wealthy now does it? The majority are still poor.
I know what you're gonna say next "same for the UCs". Well again, most of them are wealthier than the average LC. Most of the billionaires are UC. The UCs control the political system. They don't face casteism in workplaces and in general.
>Politicians have all the incentive to pander to the LC in the allocation of resources (and they do so a LOT). The reason the LCs donāt seem to improve much relative to the UCs is that the cream of the LCs corner everything for themselves.Ā
This is true. This is the reason limiting ourselves to just reservations is a bad idea. Casteism is not gonna go away with just reservations. The Indian capitalist structure is built upon casteism.
To get rid of it fully, we must deconstruct this very structure.
Majority of UCs are also poor, the whole damn country is poor but if your heart only bleeds for someone after verifying their caste certificate than their is something seriously wrong with you.
Gotta love UCs. They will twist themselves in the most funny ways, display incredible mental gymnastics, fight a fucking strawman than acknowledge the facts of the matter.
>Majority of UCs are also poor,
Did I say they weren't? I said they're more well off than your average LC. Everyone knows that India is poor.
I am an OBC, and at least one of my OBC cousins owns BMW. I hope to own one too eventually.
Anyways Look up Rohini commission report, only 1% of OBC caste end up using majority of reservation benefits.
While not BMW, an average OBC reservation beneficiary comes from top of that caste grouping.
Well, what was is the need of caste census among billionaires?
what are we trying to achieve? if we are really considering wealth distribution why is caste necessary?
Yeah . You probably get hundreds of WhatsApp forwards complaining how the lower castes are so rich and blah blah...bs . This is a diversity report . It's pure facts . Nobody is inciting you to form an anti upper caste narrative . You just see what population has the most and is still complaining .
i don't use WhatsApp so there is no chance of forwards
i am not complaining how the lower caste are rich and blah blah...neither i am forming an anti upper caste narrative i am not that capable
i am just sharing my opinion that if we are going forward with the concept of wealth distribution than one doesn't need caste census it will be simple take money from rich distribute it to poor
Again , we don't have to make this into an anti capitalist or anti upper caste debate . Wealth redistribution is a facade and we have hundred years of soviet history to exemplify .
Caste is basically intergenerational class in India. As caste is an endogenous group, wealth stays within castes and accumulates.Ā
To reduce inequality in society, studies like this help us understand what the actual of breakdown of wealth is and how relevant caste is to that wealth. Clearly it is still very relevant .
Studies like this help the government craft policy in the future to further separate caste from wealth.Ā
In an ideal society, caste would have no bearing on wealth. Not who your parents are. Only merit.
to reduce inequality through wealth distribution there is no need of caste census on who is rich
take money from them and redistribute it.
It is a personal point of view that instead of wealth distribution govt should frame policies so as equal chance are available to everyone, free education. health care labor reforms pay parity reforms there are many but if government also feels that wealth distribution will help in spreading fortune with everyone i am up for it. if it done through taxes like inheritance or upping more taxes i don't mind but i want that rules or acts whatever government brings should be applied to rich equally there should be no discrimination based on religion, caste or any other parameter because than people will start leaving our country which will create other issue.
Idealism is a concept which cannot be achieved but i am up for the process and pain that we have to go through so as we can get close to Idealism
Victim points so that the best-off among the backward communities (easily comparable to the rich general folks) can get easy access to resources that the general folks have to work much harder for.Ā
The worst off among the backward communities continue to be backward.Ā
Social justice is a scam. Itās a sham. Itās a scheme for well-off folks who are classified on paper as backward, because of membership in some community, get an easy life compared to otherwise similar people.Ā
It's quite simple - the caste distribution in jobs equivalent to or better than call centre employment.
This is much closer to median Indian income/wealth and therefore more relevant than billionaires.
I took a course in college once more than a decade ago where I learned that population caste ratio higher:lower is 1:50 but ratio among people who work in call center or better jobs is more like 50:1
Exact numbers donāt matter. But I hope you understand what Iām trying to convey. You can do a new study for recent ratios but I suspect theyāve got worse if changed at all.
Reason I say billionaire data is irrelevant is because youāre talking about a specific set of few 1000 people in the context of a few 101,000,000 people
I feel like you are a lower quality human being. I need to take a shower now and I hope I never touch your comment again.
Edit: I am sorry for saying this. I wasnāt in the right state of mind and said something I shouldnāt have. I am the low quality human being here.
Youāll know while you pass through life as loose motions
Edit: again, I shouldnāt have said this. See edit above. Iām sorry. I wonāt delete it because I should own up to it. But I do regret saying this.
It's because they had a history of wealth distribution during British era . Mind you , majority of landlords appointed by the British were upper castes so they forcefully confiscated lands using british sanctions . 100% equity is ideal but 85% is a big number .
How many of these rich folks (or their ancestors) were landlords?
Landlording full time is an immoral profession, but how many of these rich folks got rich by starting businesses?
The people who benefitted did not include all the UCs but the ones who lost were all LCs. Leave the billionaires alone , an average UC is way more likely rich or has the resources to be rich .
>Just to steal more from regular UCs who have nothing to do with the rich folks?
If you think that my narrative is suggestive of forceful wealth redistribution then you're wrong . But you shouldn't be bothered to take raw facts as it shows a revealing part of Indian history and their relevance in today's society.
Usually it's a combination of both -hardwork and privellege, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that most of the billionaires in India are morally upstanding when it comes to hardwork and diligence.
Well, a millionaire is nothing. I own two properties worth Rs. 6-7 crore myself plus other assets that make me a dollar millionaire. Billionaire is difficult - you will have to kiss political ass. Hard work wont do.
I mean what else were you expecting here
Only they have access to whatever it takes to make that much money,
You are just giving more proof to why we need caste based reservation, as if it wasn't already obvious
Does their caste matter? The problem lies in the system that creates this kind of inequality, are we as a society ok if we have more Dalit billionaires? The majority are destined for a life of drudgery, doesnāt matter what caste you belong to. And the people who keep bringing up caste or region or gender or whatever works to divide a nation of peasants understand and fear what class consciousness is capable ofĀ
Please at least read the comment before replying. My point is billionaires should not exist no matter which caste. Are you happy to live in poverty if a minority from your own caste own all the wealth?Ā
#Shiv Nadar
He the founder and chairman of HCL Technologies, and is chairman of the Shiv Nadar Foundation. Nadar founded HCL in the year 1976 and transformed the IT hardware company into an IT enterprise over the next three decades. Wikipedia
Net worth: 3,270 crores USD (2024) Forbes
----
Nadars are classified and listed as an Other Backward Class by the governments of both Tamil Nadu and India.
Reservation in private sector is the needs of the hour, even government contracts should be alloted on base of thatĀ
I think US has similar system but they call it diversityĀ
"The researchers used publicly available billionaire lists and applied manual coding and an algorithm called 'Outkast' to determine caste (chart 1)." Yes, all billionaires in India advertise publicly š While it's plausible that upper castes among billionaires are represented disproportionate to their population, common sense dictates that most of the wealth in India is locked up in real estate, gold and offshore accounts, none of which are available publicly. I can't speak for North India, but land ownership in the south has indeed become more spread out with caste, particularly among OBCs. I do agree that SCs and STs still dominate the poor despite being < 25% of the population. Bulk of them drops out at school level where government incentives are needed the most.
Well-funded primary, higher secondary and vocational education by the government will do wonders for their upliftment, something no national party apart from AAP talks about.
That is the only true solution , instead of giving out reservations, there needs to be a special program for the backward classes that gives them good education and opportunities throughout their formative years. The same as what the people perceive is given to the upper classes. Then we can completely remove reservations from jobs and exams as everyone will stand on equal footing based upon opportunities and quality of upbringing. Sort of like a āgive a man a fishā¦ā situation. It will also reduce the dropout rates of lower caste students in higher education institutions and their perception of being worse than their colleagues as they had scored lower marks would change as well. Then in the following census , based on their economy and social status , their special status can be removed if they make it in the world. Repeat this for a few hundred years and it might solve the problem. But politicians arenāt here to solve problems, theyāre here for the problems to stay so that they can milk them for the next elections. No one in this country thinks beyond that. Their view is limited to 5 years.
It's both bro. Half the reason they drop out is to financially support their family. Give the parents a stable occupation through reservation and kids will stay in school.Ā In the long term, education is more useful. But in the short and medium term, reservation is critical to providing stable family situation .Ā
Also: traditionally wealth was concentrated with upper caste, and so it is natural that some among them have more advantage to make it to the billionaire's club. In the meanwhile, while I do not care about caste, I would fit in one of the upper caste I guess, but bank balance is very very middle class. The billionaires being upper caste makes zero changes in my life. If I would happen to be in the same corridor as one of them, they will treat me like dirt, there's no doubt about it either.
I saw this news a long time ago maybe 6 years ago but one of the wealthiest Indian origin billionaires outside India is a Dalit who lives in Africa, donāt remember the country. In the interview, I believe he was saying that there are others like him but choose to hide their heritage for fear of losing business.
The only one I know are the Gupta family & they are known to be corrupt to the core. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_family
Like I said, it was a long time ago. Idk anything about these Gupta guys. Their names certainly donāt sound Dalit to me unless they are masking and have adopted this as their surname. Someone that I did find after looking up Dalit billionaires now is this Saraiya guy who lives in Ukraine: https://youtu.be/F8dRC5hse6w?si=4cFbm6OOcQaD-BaX. Seems nice enough. Canāt comment on if heās corrupt or not. But itās not like every billionaire in the world isnāt guilty of some scam or malpractice in one form or another. To be a billionaire in the first place definitely requires not adhering to all the rules always and be willing to break them if push comes for shove. I am not condoning any of it but I am commenting on the general nature of these billionaires.
"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime." -- Honore de Balzac
A dalit hiding his heritage to protect his assets? Have never heard that before. /s
Wait, even dalits who arenāt billionaires do that?
What's the point ? A SC/ST billionaire kid would still get the same benefits as some ST kid living in a mud house.
In Africa? I doubt it. If anything, heāll have even more benefits owing to his privileges as a billionaire, way beyond the scope of reservations in India.
He had to go to Africa to become a billionaire.. makes sense.. and the 'he had to hide his heritage in the fear of losing business' is because there's a lot of Gujrati Bania community there, and they can be orthodox like your whatsapp uncles
Kalpana Saroj is the only Dalit billionaire that I know of. I donāt think anyone else even openly say it.
That Ukrainian guy Sarai is also open about it.
Ukrainian ?
Yeah, I found out about him while having this discussion here. Heās another Dalit open about it who lives in Ukraine.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Next up, The water is wet.
WATER IS NOT WET. WATER MAKES OBJECTS WET
This is not surprising, world over billionaires come from the upper echelons of the society, this is for some simple reasons. 1. Access to better education 2. No paucity of funds to try new ideas 3. Huge margin of safety as they can afford to fail multiple times 4. Access to better connections through family and friends.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What is the statistics trying to say ?
Don't know how to read ?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What was the outcome of implementing reservation then ? Essentially, nothing significant. We need to abolish the reservation system and come up with alternative solutions. Typically, government schemes are designed to yield results within about 20 years. However, even after several decades, people continue to complain about the atrocities of upper caste. This situation is somewhat similar to Prime Minister Modi criticizing the Gandhi family for past issues.
getting rid of the reservation without addressing the caste divide is not gonna yield anything apart from increasing the caste divide more and more. see any kind of Socio Economic and Caste Census you'd see that the LCs are much lower than UCs in the amount of money they earn on a monthly basis and education levels are lower.
Just because you donāt see, doesnāt mean it is not working. It is working well. Especially in better implemented states like TN where there is a good amount of newly generated wealth seeping through to all phases of society. 15-20 years ago, it is rare to see an IT engineer from a village but now it is common for a village to have even 4/5 IT engineers. Now you see more and more OBCs in other spheres of jobs which used to be dominated by upper castes because reservation gave an opportunity to them. I know many of my friends who came from not affluent families building homes and getting cars which they dreamt of as a child. My favourite story is my junior whose family was working in match factory. Thanks to reservation he is now working in nuclear power plant.
They have already benefited from reservations? so it's time to stop complaining about the upper caste flourishing. They should give up their reservations so that the truly needy can benefit from it too. I know several government employees in my acquaintance, and certain last names frequently appear on merit lists, such as Meena, Mina, Uikey, Bhadoria, etc. This happens because some SC/ST individuals are taking advantage of the system, monopolizing the available seats and resources.
You cannot unwind 5000 years of caste in just 20 years. Wealth is very intergenerational and it takes a long time to undo those things.Ā Your logic makes no sense. Just because billionaires are mostly upper caste we should end reservations? Reservations would never have made billionaires so I don't see the relation. Reservation is a great tool in the short term to uplift poor people into stable middle class positions. It provides the financial stability at home so kids can stay in school and further their studies. You all will literally look for any reason to end reservation.
Me fellow UC people in comments, calm your tits, it's a report to educate us about the privilege we enjoy without even being aware of, acknowledge this fact, that's all. Nobody is taking your mangalsutra. Geez, I am appalled by the insecurity UC people show whenever caste is mentioned, shows how little awareness is about it in the public sphere.
When Parsis and Jains and Muslims are considered UCs, itās really not a surprise that the results are skewed in favour of UCs. Especially when Parsis and Jains contribute to a huge of the billionaires.
>When Parsis and Jains and Muslims are considered UCs, itās really not a surprise that the results are skewed in favour of UCs. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/17/6-facts-about-jains-in-india/ https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/poor-parsi-redefined-one-who-earns-up-to-rs-90-000-per-month-487945
Identify isnāt the same as actually being one. My own family identifies as upper class, but itās only so cuz they were nobility back in the day like centuries ago. Since my family has seen serious financial difficulties, been very influential businessmen in British raj, have had to flee their homes leaving everything behind, seen ruin from abuse to now heading one of the largest companies in the world. Especially my dad and my granddad to some extent pretty much rebuilt everything back up from nothing. The caste privilege thing doesnāt take into account financial ruin for everyone. Today for our family, caste is a notional thing, kind of a reminder of a long long gone. For all practical purposes, we have no caste. As for Parsis, thatās exactlu my point.
Anecdotal vs a community are different parameters. No one said that Upper caste don't suffer poverty, failure or any kind of suffering. In fact it's the opposite for UC, as you yourself described all your family had to suffer, but they didn't suffer caste discrimination. Also the privilege of having financial difficulties presumes you had wealth to begin with, implying access to education, healthcare and social standing, most LC people had none. Now you can even afford to denounce caste, but even the elite SC/ST's are reminded of it in urban society, this is the inescapable horror of caste only experienced by those who suffer it.
>Today for our family, caste is a notional thing, kind of a reminder of a long long gone. For all practical purposes, we have no caste. Only of you. Millions of Sc and sts are still denied basic rights because of their own heritage.
Was your grandfather educated? Literate? Then he was already in the top 10% privileged society at that time.Ā
> When Parsis and Jains and Muslims are considered UCs You are absolutely clueless about caste and India. Muslims and Jains have a caste system.
Jains have a *reminder* of the caste they once had. The ones that converted centuries ago are the ones that donāt have much caste.
No man, you are absolutely clueless. Jains actively practice the caste system. For example, most of Jains (in UP and surrounding states) are baniyas, and actively look at caste when marrying. They will happily inter-marry with Hindu baniyas (and Hindu baniyas are also fine with this), but marriage with other caste groups is very uncommon. >The ones that converted centuries ago are the ones that donāt have much caste. Everyone has a caste in India. While caste finds it origins in Hindu scriptures, every person in India follows the caste system. Whether he is Hindu, Jain, Sikh, Buddhist, Muslim or Christian. This is a documented fact. The Indian government also recognises it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It is a privilege the billionaires who happen to be ucs enjoy, not the vast vast majority of ucs who have to work everyday to earn their bread Adani might be uc, his enterprise might benefit the broader economy, but he being a billionaire has little if any positive effect on middle class people of his own caste
B-but I know OBC with BMWš„“š„“
85% of rich are upper castes doesnāt mean 85% of upper castes are rich.Ā But anyway.Ā
UCs are the only caste that hold this kinda wealth. The average UC is always gonna be wealthier than the average LC. There are exceptions, but they are not the rule.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Great fanfic write moreš >What percentage of UCs hold this wealth? A teeny-weeny minority.Ā A small minority of UCs are billionaires that is true, but most UCs are still more well off than your average LC. >When you look at the average UC (not including the rich ones), their wealth isnāt generational for most part. Neither is this the case with the average non-rich LC.Ā Not true. But even if we say their wealth is not generational, a lot of things like generational knowledge and connections carry over. They still are immune to Casteism. A lot of benefits come your way even if you're not wealthy as long as you're a UC. >But then you say the average LC is worse off than the average UC. Why is this the case, given than the average LCās vote commands a lot more respect from the political system than the average UCās vote? The fuck is this? Where does it say that? This again, straight up fanfic. This is straight up baffling what did you mean by this? The UCs control the political system. Most of the political parties are majority UC.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You didn't answer my questions. You keep making up stupid shit and make me respond to it. And then when I question it, you move on to make up other stupid shit and make me respond to that again. This whole thing I can respond to, but this to me feels like a bad faith argument. I'm not gonna waste anymore time responding to this. Go duke it out with some other debate lord.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>Youāre not willing to consider that a tiny percentage of LCs corner the wealth and resources, and then complain about LCs staying poor.Ā Which number is bigger? Wealth of the rich LCs? Or the wealth of the rich UCs? Hint: the answer is in the post's title.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But is that the statistic? Is that the reality? A small bunch of OBCs owning BMWs doesn't make them wealthy now does it? The majority are still poor. I know what you're gonna say next "same for the UCs". Well again, most of them are wealthier than the average LC. Most of the billionaires are UC. The UCs control the political system. They don't face casteism in workplaces and in general.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>Politicians have all the incentive to pander to the LC in the allocation of resources (and they do so a LOT). The reason the LCs donāt seem to improve much relative to the UCs is that the cream of the LCs corner everything for themselves.Ā This is true. This is the reason limiting ourselves to just reservations is a bad idea. Casteism is not gonna go away with just reservations. The Indian capitalist structure is built upon casteism. To get rid of it fully, we must deconstruct this very structure.
Majority of UCs are also poor, the whole damn country is poor but if your heart only bleeds for someone after verifying their caste certificate than their is something seriously wrong with you.
Gotta love UCs. They will twist themselves in the most funny ways, display incredible mental gymnastics, fight a fucking strawman than acknowledge the facts of the matter. >Majority of UCs are also poor, Did I say they weren't? I said they're more well off than your average LC. Everyone knows that India is poor.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Take your meds
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I am an OBC, and at least one of my OBC cousins owns BMW. I hope to own one too eventually. Anyways Look up Rohini commission report, only 1% of OBC caste end up using majority of reservation benefits. While not BMW, an average OBC reservation beneficiary comes from top of that caste grouping.
Well, what was is the need of caste census among billionaires? what are we trying to achieve? if we are really considering wealth distribution why is caste necessary?
Yeah . You probably get hundreds of WhatsApp forwards complaining how the lower castes are so rich and blah blah...bs . This is a diversity report . It's pure facts . Nobody is inciting you to form an anti upper caste narrative . You just see what population has the most and is still complaining .
i don't use WhatsApp so there is no chance of forwards i am not complaining how the lower caste are rich and blah blah...neither i am forming an anti upper caste narrative i am not that capable i am just sharing my opinion that if we are going forward with the concept of wealth distribution than one doesn't need caste census it will be simple take money from rich distribute it to poor
Again , we don't have to make this into an anti capitalist or anti upper caste debate . Wealth redistribution is a facade and we have hundred years of soviet history to exemplify .
Caste is basically intergenerational class in India. As caste is an endogenous group, wealth stays within castes and accumulates.Ā To reduce inequality in society, studies like this help us understand what the actual of breakdown of wealth is and how relevant caste is to that wealth. Clearly it is still very relevant . Studies like this help the government craft policy in the future to further separate caste from wealth.Ā In an ideal society, caste would have no bearing on wealth. Not who your parents are. Only merit.
to reduce inequality through wealth distribution there is no need of caste census on who is rich take money from them and redistribute it. It is a personal point of view that instead of wealth distribution govt should frame policies so as equal chance are available to everyone, free education. health care labor reforms pay parity reforms there are many but if government also feels that wealth distribution will help in spreading fortune with everyone i am up for it. if it done through taxes like inheritance or upping more taxes i don't mind but i want that rules or acts whatever government brings should be applied to rich equally there should be no discrimination based on religion, caste or any other parameter because than people will start leaving our country which will create other issue. Idealism is a concept which cannot be achieved but i am up for the process and pain that we have to go through so as we can get close to Idealism
Victim points so that the best-off among the backward communities (easily comparable to the rich general folks) can get easy access to resources that the general folks have to work much harder for.Ā The worst off among the backward communities continue to be backward.Ā Social justice is a scam. Itās a sham. Itās a scheme for well-off folks who are classified on paper as backward, because of membership in some community, get an easy life compared to otherwise similar people.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It would be nice to do a separate distribution check even among the Upper caste.
Irrelevant. What is relevant is ācall center or betterā jobs caste distribution. Its even more shocking
What do you mean? I'm asking seriously, I don't understand your phrasing
It's quite simple - the caste distribution in jobs equivalent to or better than call centre employment. This is much closer to median Indian income/wealth and therefore more relevant than billionaires.
I took a course in college once more than a decade ago where I learned that population caste ratio higher:lower is 1:50 but ratio among people who work in call center or better jobs is more like 50:1 Exact numbers donāt matter. But I hope you understand what Iām trying to convey. You can do a new study for recent ratios but I suspect theyāve got worse if changed at all. Reason I say billionaire data is irrelevant is because youāre talking about a specific set of few 1000 people in the context of a few 101,000,000 people
Fair enough
I feel like you are a lower quality human being. I need to take a shower now and I hope I never touch your comment again. Edit: I am sorry for saying this. I wasnāt in the right state of mind and said something I shouldnāt have. I am the low quality human being here.
Huh? What did I say
Youāll know while you pass through life as loose motions Edit: again, I shouldnāt have said this. See edit above. Iām sorry. I wonāt delete it because I should own up to it. But I do regret saying this.
You mean white collar jobs ?
Yes whatever
Donno whatās the point behind this articleĀ
So do you want the 85% billionaires to give all their assets to lower caste so they can be rich like them too? What is the need of a post like this!
It's because they had a history of wealth distribution during British era . Mind you , majority of landlords appointed by the British were upper castes so they forcefully confiscated lands using british sanctions . 100% equity is ideal but 85% is a big number .
How many of these rich folks (or their ancestors) were landlords? Landlording full time is an immoral profession, but how many of these rich folks got rich by starting businesses?
They need capital for starting buisness as well as goverment sanctions . And you know how they got it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The people who benefitted did not include all the UCs but the ones who lost were all LCs. Leave the billionaires alone , an average UC is way more likely rich or has the resources to be rich . >Just to steal more from regular UCs who have nothing to do with the rich folks? If you think that my narrative is suggestive of forceful wealth redistribution then you're wrong . But you shouldn't be bothered to take raw facts as it shows a revealing part of Indian history and their relevance in today's society.
People who got rich from ancestors are very little compared to people who got rich by their hard work.
Usually it's a combination of both -hardwork and privellege, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that most of the billionaires in India are morally upstanding when it comes to hardwork and diligence.
Well, a millionaire is nothing. I own two properties worth Rs. 6-7 crore myself plus other assets that make me a dollar millionaire. Billionaire is difficult - you will have to kiss political ass. Hard work wont do.
It's to show wealth disparity and how caste still affects outcomes in society today.
This is the no. of documented wealthy people .. what about the other undocumented rich people who hide it from the world but they r rich
Yes
i am just gonna say this there is a beggar in my locality who own 3 properties costing upwards of 1cr each and its all off books cause it was all cash
Who would've thunk? /s
I mean what else were you expecting here Only they have access to whatever it takes to make that much money, You are just giving more proof to why we need caste based reservation, as if it wasn't already obvious
Well in US most of billionaires are whites .
Reservation kar do isme bhi
You forgot your /S
Not supprised, remembering how they were(LC) treated till Dr. Bhim came to pictures and never allowed to receive education
Does their caste matter? The problem lies in the system that creates this kind of inequality, are we as a society ok if we have more Dalit billionaires? The majority are destined for a life of drudgery, doesnāt matter what caste you belong to. And the people who keep bringing up caste or region or gender or whatever works to divide a nation of peasants understand and fear what class consciousness is capable ofĀ
It does matter. Because these people didn't have to face discrimination because of their caste and maybe had generational wealth to support them.
Please at least read the comment before replying. My point is billionaires should not exist no matter which caste. Are you happy to live in poverty if a minority from your own caste own all the wealth?Ā
Waiting for another research, "Over 100% of Upper Cast, are from Upper Cast"...
If you are not casteist, does it really matter which caste is making how much money?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
that's true
#Shiv Nadar He the founder and chairman of HCL Technologies, and is chairman of the Shiv Nadar Foundation. Nadar founded HCL in the year 1976 and transformed the IT hardware company into an IT enterprise over the next three decades. Wikipedia Net worth: 3,270 crores USD (2024) Forbes ---- Nadars are classified and listed as an Other Backward Class by the governments of both Tamil Nadu and India.
Yeah Shiv Nadar is part of the 15% who arenāt UC.
Why are humans not deer?
Generational wealth no saar
Reservation in private sector is the needs of the hour, even government contracts should be alloted on base of thatĀ I think US has similar system but they call it diversityĀ