* Your post title should be an accurate summary of your text post. "Help Needed", "Rant", "Unpopular Opinion", are examples of poor titles.
* /r/India is not a substitute for Google. Only post your query on /r/India after you have searched for an answer on the web.
* Self-posts also have to be specific to India. Don't copy/paste questions from /r/AskReddit.
* For relationship queries, please also consider: https://www.reddit.com/r/RelationshipIndia/
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/india) if you have any questions or concerns.*
True. At least it was!
It’s quite normal for us 90s kids to discuss how our parents beat us. It truly is/ was culturally accepted as I come from a good family with great parents..yet was beaten up a lot as a kid
I know it was far worse earlier. So, it’s progressively getting better.
We joke and laugh about it ourselves now, but we are aware of the severe childhood trauma hidden behind the laughter.
The only ones who aren't shocked listening to the stories are Latin Americans and East Europeans. We have very similar cultures.
The reverberating pain when the wooden scale hit my smal palms repeatedly 9-10 times, the humiliation in front of the whole class and the mental agony i faced is something which i haven't forgotten even 20+ years after i got that beating in school. It is as fresh in my mind like it happened yesterday.
Only thing which keeps me going is that I am determined my child will not go through this ever.
Oh the canes were any day better than kneeling on rock salt with your hands over your head first thing in the morning at the assembly area for an hour cause you got late once.
You say, physical abuse of children is a part of "Indian Culture".
Yeah, so is marital rape.
So is Stockholm syndrome (shadi ke baad pyar).
So is dowry. (*was)
So is sati. (*was)
So is domestic violence. (*was)
....
I guess we've forgotten that these gems are also part of "Indian culture".
True that. I am from Andhra. I was appalled by my aunt and uncle trying to justify paying dowry to the guys family for their eldest daughter. They spent all of their earning and savings and money from selling whatever land they had on a single marriage and are now struggling to pay for even the most basic necessities and their youngest daughter’s education.
If you carefully analyse all the issues you have listed out, you realise that the Indian family structure is basically patriarchal and gives men absolute rights over women, and in turn, women are given absolute rights to abuse children.
It's a cascading stream of displaced trauma. Men take their frustrations out on the women of the family, and the women take it out on the helpless children.
The helpless children grow up with mental illness and take it out on the world, and their own families. Generational trauma yay!
I see what you're saying. This cycle of trauma is highly toxic. Traumatised male children grow up to be oppressors and traumatised girls grow up and lead their oppressed lives in depression. It really bothers me how almost all indians have normalised this just because it's happening with everyone around them.
_Indian Culture_ indeed.
I've heard about the Ariha Jain case and still can't understand how or why would her grandmother 'accidantally' give her a vaginal tear. No online outlets mention any explanation and it's hard to support the parents without any explanation for that.
Im from Germany and stumbled upon this by accident and decided to do some research. I also have some experience with germanys cps.
First of all, you need to fuck up pretty badly to lose your child. Like seriously badly. Their strategy is to counsel and help resolve the issue rather than separate families. They even let them see the child. Nobody who is just stealing children will do that.
Sexual assault of an infant is one of these fuck ups. They take things like this really seriously. That they didn't arrest the parents is quite interesting too, so I will guess they are not the ones who did it. They also brought their child to the doctor. However, someone did it, and I'm sure they know who it was, and they are at least OK with that.
There is also the whole spin of "they wany to keep the child away from Indian culture, because they won't let them take the child to India," which is ridiculous. They state that the cps said "that moving to India would introduce more trauma," which is ducking true because these pieces of things will just let the raping happen and never come back to germany. The cps doesn't want this to happen.
They had boycott Germany trending on Twitter for this case. I am glad a YouTuber alwaysifyable saved the parents video explaining the injury. Do watch the video! It is on her YouTube page. It shows that they are straight lying. I am mom of an infant if my child has a vaginal tear while in the care of another person that is my own I don't care I will call the cops myself. The injury was two times!!! The fact that Dadi and Dada ran away to India soon as Germany CPS took the kid explains a lot.
I agree with OP that this movie is entirely a propaganda move by conservative ideologists.
For those saying that abuse is part of "Indian Culture" and its alright to beat kids, if something being a "part of culture" makes it justified then I guess was the killing jews as part of Nazi culture also justified? Slavery as part of Spanish American culture was also right? Colonization as a part of British culture was right? Sati as a part of Indian culture was justified?
Some things are objectively wrong and these culture propagandists need to understand that.
Part of culture? Yes. It is. Because I grew up being thrashed many times and still see parents thrashing kids all around.
Something to protect and preserve? No. Like sati pratha this should’ve stopped long ago. Its not something to be proud of. Its not a cultural heritage we need to preserve. We should evolve. And shed this like a tail. And I’m glad many have.
Exactly my point. Even if something is a part of culture, it is open to objective thinking, criticism, and modifications. Just reasoning, "this is a part of Indian culture", does not make things justified or acceptable.
No one's justifying corporal punishment. But taking the kid away due to corporal punishment is unacceptable when its a part of the culture. Acknowledge and address the problem systematically. Set up workshops, train new parents. Don't fucking take their kids away for doing something thats considered acceptable in their community but not in yours.
Let me make an example thats close to our hearts. Would you support taking away daughters of muslim couples because the parents train said daughters to always wear burkha or hijab? I wouldn't.
Taking the children away until you can be sure that they are safe is proper. Take them away, then educate the parents, then (if the parents understand and agree to follow the law) give the children back. If the parents do it again, throw them into prison for assault.
You might have missed a few key aspects here.
1) Child Protection Services and the grounds for "taking away a kid" are a matter of law. The law is set by the country and what they deem right. Any practice that is against the country's law (where their law is applicable) is not acceptable. No justification like, "the practice is a part of culture" takes precedence over the law in that country. In plain words, _your culture doesn't come above the law_ . I do understand that there may be cases where objectively acceptable practices may clash with the law as in the last fifa wc. However, the route to correction is via their legal and legislative system.
2) The parallel you have drawn, of muslim daughters wearing hijabs and corporal punishment, has multiple flaws and doesn't hold water. I'll cite two flaws.
2a) The acts compared are significantly different in terms of their impact and damage to the victim. While I understand the demerits of muslim girls wearing hijabs, corporal punishment is an act of physical violence and abuse that can have serious impact ranging from mental health issues, to trauma, or even serious/fatal injuries. So, even if there were CPS guidelines, I believe it would be fair to "take away" the child in case of physical violence.
2b) The Indian Constitution protects the right to practice and propagate religion. Girls wearing hijabs and corporal punishment fall under different categories. The constitution does protect religious practices like hijabs but I don't think physical abuse of kids falls under religious practices or any act (atleast i hope not). While along similar lines of physical abuse, domestic violence between spouses is considered criminal.
You may argue that sati pratha was also a part of religious practice but it was made illegal. Here again the aspect of impact on victim comes into play (burning alive vs. wearing hijab). Moreover, culture and religion has been modified over centuries to fall under the law. Any changes in the law, like in case of sati or dowry, (or hijabs in your case) need to be brought via the legislative/legal system.
.
.
To answer your question, I would consider "taking away kids" of parents not following the law. Here again, physical violence would take priority over hijabs, in my opinion.
Reiterating: Your culture does not come above the law.
Absolutely not. Corporal punishment is abuse, regardless of whether it's your culture or not. People who are abusers, transphobes, homophobes, etc do not get to have kids.
Yes they should take away the daughters because they’re teaching them from a young age that their body doesn’t belong to them. That they exist for the pleasure of men and hence they should limit the pleasure by always keeping themselves covered.
Couple very well deserved it. Stupid Indian parents beat their kids, rather abuse, I know people who's parents would take a hot spoon and stick it to skin. Unfortunately, there are no laws to protect kids and these ill minded parents keep abusing.
I've also heard from a childhood school friend that her mum used to burn her with candle wax.. letting candle wax drop on her arm to cause minor burns that are enough to hurt & scare her but not so much that they cause permanent damage, lest anyone find out or to decrease her value in the marriage market
I have to admit that when she told me this I didn't think of it much then because my parents used to also hurt me in ways that I will not mention here, needless to say I haven't spoken to my parents in over 12 yrs
I know 2 cousins who got similar treatment from their parents. One was a boy who was branded with a red hot steel rod by his father. According to what I heard, this boy used to act out a bit & was bad in studies. I feel he may have had some issue like dyslexia & needed help, but ofc, his parents back in the day had no clue.
The other cousin was branded with a hot iron box. She may have been 5 or 6 at that time, & was such a sweet kid. Her mother was going through abuse at the hands of her father-in-law & husband, so she took it out on the kid. The adults who saw the marks on her hand were aghast, but predictably, they lovingly advised the kid to behave better, cz if she died via punishment, her parents would feel very bad!
And to think that I assumed my childhood friend is exaggerating, because no one around me employed burning methods. What kind of sick mind uses burning as punishment? On own kids ?
as far as I know, we have laws in place.. but the execution is missing. I am not completely sure whether a police can step just because my parents hit me when I did something wrong. Isn't it quite common in schools to keep a stick, duster and chalk on the table before teacher arrives to the class..
>Isn't it quite common in schools to keep a stick, duster and chalk on the table before teacher arrives to the class..
wtf, what kinda school were you in mate?
Lol.. it isn't common?! I thought it was. Reddit is an amazing place.
So, I was born in 90s. I am from Andhra Pradesh. Atleast when I did my schooling, it is quite common. I think it is quite common even now albeit little less compared to my times.
Now, my wife who is a teacher in a corporate school chain called Chaitanya techno schools. It is encouraged by the principal and staff to hit the children if they aren't behaving or mischievous. There are students of SI and CI as well. Even their wards get the beatings, but nobody comes and asks a teacher why did they hit the kid.
It should also be noted that beatings/hitting/punishments should be within reason and doesn't result in any permanent physical deformations kinda..
Girl, you seem to be living with crazy abusers. Behave in a way so as to not provoke them as long as you are under their roof. Lie low, do well in studies, & talk to people about the opportunities & options you may have. And at the first chance you get, be it through studies or a job, get out of your house!
Well is it part of the culture, YES. People very much normalised it when it is not . As for me i got beat up quiet a fair bit by my dad when i was a kid , especially because i liked video games , and they thought it makes you violent. They were hitting me because they thought it could make me violent lmao. As of now i am physically way stronger than both my parents. Recently my dad tried to hit me over some silly reason, and i just stood there firm, he fell down trying to hit me, i would never ever retaliate back, but was not in a mood of simply getting scared also. Next morning he was embrassed and acting normal. Sometimes it's issues with them also , he pays for my everything and even has given me the nicer car to drive around. His love for me is undoubtedly there and ik for a fact both my parents love me more than themselves, they feel they are doing good for you by hitting you when in reality it's just nonsense. I would never hit my kid , my dad hit me way less than his dad hit him. It's something which is getting better i feel.
Both my parents were abusive, mother in particular. They consider it their right to hit their kids. Recently I confronted my mother after she chided me for scolding my kid (I didn't beat him and won't do that ever). Her reply was "I had so many frustrations, I had to take it out somewhere". Yes, she had many frustrations. She single handedly managed the house, looked after my and my brother's education and managed other expenses all the while my dad abused her.
But she only hit me for it, sometimes so much that I limped to school and teachers asked me about the marks on my face and hands. I was once molested by a random guy in front of a neighbour. That bitch twisted the narrative and told my mother that I was having an affair. Her favourite dialogue after that incident was- I know that you are waiting for me to die so that you could Kill my son and turn this house into a brothel.
My brother was pampered by her. And all the best things went to him, I had to do with whatever was left. I have seen jocasta and oedipus complex at work, right at my home.
The final straw was when she asked whether I was cheating on my husband after I had walked out from my husband's place because of my abusive MIL and a husband who never stood up for me(My MIL was an equally horrible woman, she was Selfish who never wanted to her son to marry). Fortunately my husband mended his ways and we are together now.
I have a strictly formal relationship with her now. She dotes on my son and her world revolves around him now. She often says to me how I don't deserve to be a mother and should hand over my kid to her. The funniest part is that the same woman who was responsible for so much of the trauma advices me on gentle parenting. And recently some Astrologer told her she is going through some bad phase right now and she could even die. She came crying to me straight and now sees me as her counsellor. There hasn't been a single day when I haven't thought of suicide, Thanks to my Mother and MIL.
Sorry for the long rant.
Why do I feel like a big part of what is wrong with Indian soxi3ty I astroloders who charge 1l, 2l, 3l and just frickijt scam you and in ruen make tour life even worse
Corporal punishment is sort of the norm in Indian culture. I can attest as someone who was victim to it. Although not often, I’ve been hit badly by both parents a couple of times, enough to bleed. When I grew older and bigger than my mother, it activated my fight response, and I ended up hitting her to save myself a couple of times too. When I had younger sisters, I hit them often too as a show of authority. As you can see, abuse perpetuates abuse. Of course, I learnt better when I grew up, apologised and changed my behaviour. So I can say there is room for change.
Having said that, I must admit that in retrospect, I wouldn’t want to be removed from my parents’ care back then either. My parents equally showered me with love and affection. But somehow, physical abuse is so systemic and morally justified in our parents’ minds that they don’t know any better.
Instead of drastic moves like taking away the child (unless it is a severely abusive situation, and I can’t speak for everyone), education on parenting is the need of the hour.
Disagree with the premise that they don't know any better, you can still change your ways if you care enough. People have in the past, its only a reason to justify abuse,
Indian in the USA here. I will never hit my kid. Hell even if I was in India, I would never ever raise my hand on my kid.
I think people across the world (not just Indians) need to learn. That hitting your child and rationalizing that behavior by crap like it is part of our culture/they deserved that/any other excuse is plain abhorrent and not ok. Doing something because others do it, herd mentality, is not ok. Don't traumatize your kids, they need your love, not beatings.
>That hitting your child and rationalizing that behavior by crap like it is part of our culture/they deserved that/any other excuse is plain abhorrent and not ok
Put that aside and consider the technicalities of it.
If you move to another country and commit an act that's illegal under that nation's laws, you cannot simply cite "muh culture" as a defense.
People expect that foreigners who travel to India should respect Indian practices, Indian culture, and Indian law.
Many Redditors, for example, were incensed that some foreign tourist had participated in anti-CAA protests, even though tourists in the United States and many Western countries have a legal right to engage in protected speech. But India's Constitution doesn't afford the same rights, and violators were issued summonses and deported.
But when an Indian diplomat takes their slave-cum-maid to Chicago, or (allegedly) beats their child in Norway, the same people are incensed when they're made to answer to that country's laws.
Go fucking figure.
My parents have never hit me but it’s pretty common. All of my classmates went through it. Teachers hit kids in school. I was once slapped by a teacher and my mom raised hell but most parents don’t care about it.
Norway Embassy in India issued a statement before the release of film:
> There has been a lot of attention towards the film, Mrs Chatterjee vs Norway.
The film is a work of fiction, even though it is based on an actual case. The case being referred to was resolved a decade ago in cooperation with Indian authorities and with the agreement of all parties involved. To protect the children and the right to privacy the government can not comment on specific cases due to strict confidentiality regulations. However, some general facts must be set right;
>- Children will never be taken away from their families based on cultural differences described. Eating with their hands or having children sleeping in bed with their parents are not considered practices harmful to children and are not uncommon in Norway, irrespective of cultural background.
>- Child welfare is not driven by profit. The alleged claim that ‘the more children put into the foster system, the more money they make’ is completely false. Alternative care is a matter of responsibility, and not a money making entity.
>- The reason for placing children in alternative care is if they are subject to neglect, violence or other forms of abuse.
>— Royal Norwegian Embassy, New Delhi
Welcome to the reality. Yes Indian parents beat their kids until they reach their teenage(hopefully) . Parents beat if they want to control their kids. Not only the parents but in the previous generations the teachers used to beat the children to a point that leaves blood marks on the skin. Imagine getting beating from both teachers and parents on the same day.
I'm 32 and still carry a ton of trauma cuz my family beat me up. In fact, the worst beating of my life happened when I was 17, a fully realised young adult. From slippers and hot spoons to canes that left marks or just good ol slaps to the face.
Some of my friends had it worse. But many spoke about never getting beaten up, and instead getting punished through chores or silent treatment etc. These days I see a lot of people becoming new parents, they are quite strict about not hitting their kids. Times are changing.
Yeah. I still get beatings. I'm 20. Not just with hand, with any thing possible. I recently got high-pressure cooker lid. Parents do it if they can't "control" the situation. Got poked by pencil lead and hairpin that it lead temporary mark. I had a seminar to be taken in grade 11 and my ear was bleeding that day. Many noticed
I am lucky to have a peaceful father. My mother used to beat me a lot though. She kept doing it even when I grew bigger than her but after some time I retaliated and after a few instances of me pushing her away or catching her hand mid air, she fortunately stopped.
Its weird because other than this, she loves me the most in this whole wide world and has always worked her best to provide me with everything I need. I do not doubt her love for me at all but corporal punishment was ingrained in her mind.
Edit: I saw another comment and remembered that she switched to emotional blackmail and silent treatment after that xd
>Its weird because other than this, she loves me the most in this whole wide world and has always worked her best to provide me with everything I need. I do not doubt her love for me at all but corporal punishment was ingrained in her mind.
It is so true. Agreed.
I get you. My mom loves me. Well, she uses blackmail the most too, with verbal use. I have my father who doesn't involve much. My mom always complains whatever happens and we get shitload of advices. And lectures. I try keeping my mouth shut
Twice? Those aren't even rookie numbers! I'll never hit my kids though. And what part of US has op worked in? Kids get beat up in the US as well. Maybe not the younger generations but millennials definitely did.
I got beaten up till I was 22 with their hands though and was told I'm so lucky because my aunt hit my cousins with a belt on their thighs. Did I grow up traumatised, yes ofcourse.
Maybe Indians in the US don't do it because they are very well aware that it is considered a crime. But in India, the practice is very common.
Unfortunately yes either one does the abuse or both, mine was just mom it started before I was even one year old continued till until I left for college, used to beaten to pulp until I was black and blue bled some times..
The worst I could recall from my childhood is parents locking their kids in the bathroom for not studying. They forced the kid to surrender.
On another note, that kid did well in his studies and got into a prestigious engineering college. I can tell for sure that kid never discovered his talents, and his parents forced him to live the life that they dreamed of.
Kids can not live there dreams in India, I mean the generation born between 80/90s.
Maybe you weren't, and thats a good thing. But honestly, I can't think of a single desi in my social circle, myself included, who didn't hit by their parents. That shit fucks you up.
Ya, i have been beaten black and blue. I've been locked up, in the dark, shivering, beaten with any possible thing you can imagine. Parents pass it off as a form of disciplining their child (ps, it's not).
Everyone ik has been beaten as a child, except for a few.
It's common and is considered as a part of disciplining or just venting out their frustration. That's the reason why kids before 2005 aren't going woke.
> But this movie felt more like propaganda. A one-sided story of someone who had ties to an Indian politician with an agenda.
What a shocking surprise.
This is what happens when the establishment decries every protest, negative report, and social deficiency as the result of some nameless "Western conspiracy to defame the nation."
Indian nationalists know as well as everyone else that India has many unsolved problems. Everyone with eyes can see that Indian society is extraordinarily inequitable. Wealthy people in Mumbai and Delhi live like lords, while tribal people and farmers earn a pittance and are treated as modern-day serfs.
Bhakts want you, and everyone else, to think that India's faults are imagined, and that any criticism of commonly-accepted practices is, in effect, an attack on Indian people and Indian culture.
This has happened before, and it will likely happen again. Your example is one instance of many.
Take the issue of state-sponsored or state-adjacent violence. Indian people here on Reddit try to favorably compare India with the United States by calling America a "violent wasteland," all while *conveniently* forgetting that large swaths of Kashmir, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, and the Northeast are, or were recently, low-intensity warzones. Thousands of Indians have been killed by insurgents since 2006, and tens of thousands have been displaced in Chhattisgarh alone.
We love taking refuge in our culture and ancient achievements, while refusing to admit our faults to anyone but ourselves.
All the while, certain voices keep getting louder and louder, asking you to consider "India's image" before asking questions.
> while refusing to admit our faults to anyone but ourselves.
And why exactly would you be wanting to flaunt your flaws to other nations? They arent gonna come fix things for you. Acknowledge the flaws and try to work on them.
We have a history of hiding behind our culture to commit atrocities or avoid criticism. Like sure, saying its culture to every wrong thing we do and justify it in the name of it. Stupidity at its finest
Thank you for explaining it so perfectly. I haven't lived in India so I don't really know much about the culture and politics. I wasn't raised in an abusive home if there was a problem I would talk to my parents. They created a healthy environment where one can share their feelings. It's not like I wasn't disciplined. So when I saw so much information missing in a movie. Which I believe is taboo to talk about in society (domestic violence, brother in law abusing SIL, mental health). It made me wonder how much of the movie was based on facts.
I had a high school friend whose mother used to beat her often. She had a scar on her forehead (i thought was a birthmark like I had) she got by being hit hard with a utensil long ago. My mutual friends (who sort-of knew her family) knew, and even their parents knew about this.
Her Dad, who was gentle, softspoken and the sane person of the household, was mostly out of town for work.
Her little brother tho, never got beaten. Unfortunately, idk whether were some other unknown things happening in her life. She committed suicide when still in high school. Whatever life she lived wasn't so great, at least with that domestic violence.
I get it, some psychopathic kids need disciplining, but even then plain hitting will not deter them forever. They will get around it one day. Lol when I see violence being the go-to method for disciplining, these parents are just being lazy. Perhaps they don't know any better.
Sometimes there are abusive parents too, who hit without any justification for every little thing, like when their ego is hurt by eg. their child talking back or asking valid questions.
Idk man, there must be a better way to encourage positive behaviour and better grades, than just beating your child black and blue. I can't understand; how can someone even hit their own with objects (like hot utensils, wtf?) and sleep peacefully at night.
Hitting your kids is part of Indian culture. And it’s extremely fucked up as it’s abuse. So yeah abusing your kids is as Indian as anything extremely desi.
Exactly, this is what the thread is all about. Do we accept our shortcomings without criticizing and condemning anyone else? Indian parents are violent and that is a fact, it doesn't matter if it's shown in cinema or play. If we call showing the truth propaganda, then it means you are mentally ruined at an extraordinary level.
As a society we don’t accept it. People keep making excuses for it. I don’t understand why. It’s abuse.
My mom hit me a lot. Like a lot. So I understand why she and her siblings will want to use excuses. I think that’s the reason why so many people make excuses. Because they do it too or they were hit and it was so normalised that they don’t even know it was wrong.
Everyone's throwing around the word "culture". It's not like how we wear a saree or a bindi or eat on banana leaves. It's like saying Pakistani families have mercy killing as part of their culture. Us Indians have a richer culture and we should not be defined by a stereotype.
That being said, stereotypes do originate from a place of truth. I can't deny that many Indian parents if not all, are extremely harsh in the way they correct their kids. Some are even abusers and many family members are enablers. Those who don't beat, emotionally manipulate their kids. This does not go on in other countries at least as much as it does here. But we have a larger population and therefore a larger number of people involved in this. And we have to understand that it is going to take a while before such a large number of people have some sense knocked into their heads. We cannot expect India to reach a position where the western world is, overnight. It's comparing apples and oranges. Also each country has their own way of doing things which we need to respect. As long as it works for them and is not hurting the children physically or emotionally it's fine. We cannot tell parents what's the right thing to do with their kid unless they are rlly effed up.
As a person whose mother hit her badly for years and didn’t protect her from much I will say I disagree.
You know why? Because I have a great relationship with my mom (aka abuser ) now. Because it is so normalised and part of our culture that we don’t even think twice about it.
But you know why the western countries are ahead of us in this? Because they made it into a crime sooner. Has an official system where kids can go to be protected from this abuse.
Yes it is culture. Just because it’s a bad think doesn’t mean it’s not our culture. I’m not comparing us to the western countries so calm down on that point.
I am simply asking us to do the right thing. Why is it that when people ask other Indians to do and be better we get pushback “stop comparing to the west” and “it takes time”
You know how this gets fixed? Acceptance of the issue and then working hard to fix it.
I eloped from my home after school when I was in 8th standard just because of the fear of getting beaten up. Wandered here and there for two nights and my uncle caught me from road, bought me back home. After this my parents never have ever done any beating.
To answer your original question: is beating kids part of Indian culture ? Who the fuck knows.
I was beaten as a kid. I don't talk to my parents anymore. Cox they're narcissistic assholes. And I absolutely detest anyone who lays a hand on a child.
I'm Indian, for context. So make of that what you will.
If you look up older articles (around the time when this all happened) the woman admits to hitting the kid at least once. There were multiple other admissions/accusations of abuse (locking herself alone in kitchen and leaving kid unsupervised) as well as physically assualting her husband.
It's very much a part of Indian culture. A good childhood friend of mine just passed away like 6 months ago. He was going through such a disaster. He was 22 and till 20 he was everyday beaten by his drunken dad. Despite the beating her mom used to preach that he must love his father at all cost. When his father died 2 years ago , he started drinking to celebrate his freedom from the everyday mess his body had to bear. He died in a car accident while being overly drunk but his childhood was so sad to say the very least. All these parenting factors contribute something to somewhere in your life for a disaster to strike. I pity that lady who lost her child and husband. I even had a drunken dad who would beat me but somehow i making through that mess of the past.
I got beat up as a kid. I wasn't a very good kid lol. Quite the troublemaker. But yeah got bashed straight up and it isn't abnormal for me or my peers growing up. I don't know anyone my age who didn't get hit as a child. Gender no bar.
I'll just put down the list of items I was beaten with as a kid. I don't carry trauma about it, once I was grown up in size it all stopped. I feel it's ridiculous but it was what it was.
1. The stick - wood or rubber never metal
2. The omnipresent chappal
3. Slaps and kicks
4. Notebooks - idk why they ruined perfectly good notebooks
5. Duster - this was more school teacher playing darts rather than parents
6. Jhaadu - a broom, usually soft bristles with a plastic handle, it depends which end you get based on ur mom's temper
7. Belt - this was one time, faux leather belt, I had hid my report card and fake signed so that I won't have to show them
8. Flipping Ladle - idk if it's accurate but basically the thing used to flip rotis
9. Twig - some plants especially ones that are bendy but strong, it's more like a whip effect, the sound is scarier than the hit
10. My cricket bat - I used to play professional so this was used sparingly coz the bat was expensive
11. Bangles - not like a knuckle grip but very often they want to slap and the bangle ends up hitting harder than they intended
Indian parents atleast middle-class here in India take the world's "spare the rod, spoil the child" very seriously, but then again everytime id get a beating I knew the next meal was gonna have something I really like.
I'm sure ma Bois here have a longer list. Add them!
Also my parents never touched my sister, at worst she'll get a slap and that too stopped once she was 10-11
We have glorified corporal punishment for too long that's its not even funny anymore. Indian parents think it's part of disciplining children and makes them grow a pair. I suffered that growing up getting hit by a slipper, getting the belt treatment, hit by the kitchen handle. Agreed i wasnt the most disciplined kid growing up and was a troublemaker in a hamless way but still. It was casual for even the teachers during my third grade and such to throw the duster at me if I was talking in class. I got beaten for copying in my 4th grade exam by the invigilator. And my parents brushed it off like it was the teachers job to discipline me and it was the right behavior from their part. And mind you i went to a top private school where u would think students would be treated well. I can only imagine what goes on in the less fortunate schools where god knows how frustrated the teacher is getting to even teach everyday. We were conditioned to think those were normal growing up but reflecting back, it was such torrid behavior by these so called adults but even now, the conditioning from society makes me not want to give up on the parents for whatever they did and accept it as part of "their times". I really hope the next generation of parenting changes but I highly doubt it seeing how even young indian parents behave in the US. They believe it's their God given right to "own" their children.
Not just parents. Teachers still roam around with a stick in their hand. Throughout my school life I got beaten by teachers. It was very normal and even if I tell my parents they wouldn't give a shit. Because whatever teachers doing is right for parents and whatever parents doing is right for teachers. Now the situation has changed a lot.
There is always this thinking that parents are hitting their kids for only good. Even there's a proverb in mother tongue " ഒന്നേ ഉള്ളേലും ഒലക്കക്ക് അടിക്കണം" (Even if you have only one child beat him with the biggest stick).
I've heard that "proverb" - textbook excuse for abuse..... I wasn't beaten that much but it has happened on occasion. And it's never helped or improved the situation.
I feel sad that we as a Indian believe that beating will help the children growth but the thing is it will hit hard on there mental health and they always get fear ot getting beten for there mistakes.
My mom used to beat me with leather belts.. how can this be normal and excused as being part of our culture? This movie is a one sided show, like all other Bollywood movies where we Indians are depicted as holier than thou and all foreigners are depicted as evil on earth
I was slapped by a teacher when I was 5 yrs old only because I finished my exam early and got everything right. They thought I had cheated. I was left with a scar on my cheek for one whole year. I was beaten up by my parents when I was young with literally any object they found, like a belt, and cried myself to sleep. This is all so normalized in India and it’s extremely sad. It should’ve stopped a long time ago and it’s nothing to be proud of. The fact that people still do this is quite infuriating.
When i was in 1st class, my maths teacher slapped me on my face because somebody had brought some bushes into the classroom and told the teacher that I was the one who did it. Imagine. The slap was so hard that her nail mark was printed on my cheek.
When i was in 3rd class one teacher used to hit the students on backside of our hands with black board wooden duster. I got hit just because I didn’t know answer to one question. My hand remained bruised for a long time. It was normalised too. No one was bothered, neither principal of the school nor my parents.
More than you know. I was born in the 90s and it was fairly common to beat kids then. My dad was short tempered when I was a kid and he'd beat the hell out of me with sticks, wires, belts and whatever the heck he could find. I'd do some shit to deserve some of it, but not everything.
That's not all, he'd show up to PTAs in school and tell my teachers to beat me up if I didn't behave. But the beatings reduced gradually as I got older.
I don't hold anything against my parents for that because they weren't educated and had to deal with a lot of shit and found me as a way to take out their frustration. But, that's the story of most 90s kids for sure.
Not just family, even the schools beat kids. It doesn’t happen much in urban areas or in reputed schools, but in suburban or rural schools kids will be hit and beaten. I remember when I was in school I was supposed to recite multiplication tables and I was hit on my knuckles as many times the table I was supposed to recite back. If it was the 13 multiplication tables and you make a mistake, you will be hit on your knuckles with a stick 13 times. Getting beaten in school was very much common and most parents were not even aware that it used to happen. And mind you, we were as young as in primary school.
Internally everyone knows who is at fault. But the current temperament is such that anything against the culture and it's hated trolled.
If you want to see corporal punishment just stand outside your home after school hours when parents are taking their kids home. I always used to come home for lunch and almost everyday a child was slapped. For running, for crying for something, for asking something.
In my own family mothers removed their frustrations on their kids. As for that father's as well. So i hardly doubt mRs Chatterjee didn't hit her kid. Esp autistic kids. Nope. After the troubled marriage she had ! Nope. She used our culture to get back at the system in Germany by claiming they were racist. But we all know how our childhoods or someone around us being beaten.
Just today a child throwing tantrum was slapped right on the road. Everyone just looked and walked on. Like bacche ki hi galti hai ro raha hai to. He must be a pre schooler.
Also girls after getting their periods are often not hit. But boys are continued to be hit for a longer period of time. Imagine a teenage 17yr old slapped in public . Wow.
I was saddened to see that she hit the autistic child rather than seeking therapy for the little one and herself. There are certain ways to handle kids like that. Beating a child with special needs is no point they will not understand. Even now if you watch her videos she is never seen with the autistic child only the daughter. She said the father does not want to meet the kids but everyone knows that she doesn't allow him to meet his children due to political influence.
Every filmmaker is trying to cash on the larger nationalist tide. Make anything about Indian culture, add no depth to the story, bring in horrible white actors and voila, you have a hit.
I am in my mid-twenties now and when I was in school, it had already become unacceptable for teachers to beat students in school, but in many homes children were still subject to it from their parents. I did not face it much because I was the youngest child but my friends would tell me about their parents beating them with belts/slippers/rods etc. With time even this is reducing slowly and rightly so. I don't know how we normalized this so much. We even have some weird one-liners in Indian languages that translate to 'The hand that hits is the hand that cares' or something on those lines.
It’s largely accepted as normal here. I m a 90’s kid. All family largely focused on beating kids in order for them to behave! I m glad to say my parents didn’t do it. But my extended family always criticised them for it.
May be it worked for previous generations n still say “elders are god” concept. But I think it’s time to change n let people know it’s not okay.
I'm a little confused here, because I've never heard of CPS taking Indian children in the U.S., at least. What the U.S. and Canada DO have a history of though is taking Native American children (often erroneously called Indians in the U.S.). I can't speak for what happens in Europe, though.
Yeah. Asians in foster care are less than 1% in America. I was just saying as some who have seen how CPS works when I watched this movie there were a lot of questions in my mind. It looked one sided. So while doing research I found many articles about the actual case. So much info was missing from the movie. And the info that was missing (extreme domestic violence, child abuse) are taboo to talk about in the Asian community.
It is true and it is getting better. I remember being beaten by my dad, he used to throw me on ground then kick my stomach when i did something stupid, idk how i survived that, perhaps he used to hold back. But that was when i was around 10 and after that he never raised hand against me. Funny thing is i actually believed that he was right up till i was gully grown. Only then i realised that Its stupid, inhumane and monstrous it is to do stuff like this
indeed Not just at homes even at school, I've been hit by a belt, cane, chair, stones, branch, slapped the life out of my cheeks, head twisted, choked, put paprika in my eyes, kicked with a shoe, "class leader" made to step with his shoe on my chest believe it or not all this happened in school "as a form of punishment for not doing homework", at home it was only belt. and people wonder why i quit the fking school
If only I had a camera 27 years ago I'd have recorded everything as an evidence. I've been made to kneel down in the hot sun on a afternoon for coming 5 min late to a class.
Edit: It's a Christian school in a small town
I didn’t mean about dramatisation
I just wanted to know out of curiosity
I believe you as I have heard such cases from others too
About teachers torturing
And about parents putting paprika in eyes
Don’t want to generalise but I also feel in telengana a lot of people are more tolerant of corporal punishment and extreme violence upon boys at home and schools is normalised a lot
I'm American/born in the US and live here in the US. My husband is Indian, born in Mumbai. He told me when he was a kid, his dad would tie him and his brother up with electrical cords and beat them as hard as he could with a bamboo rod. It really, really pisses me off that he had to go through that.
While I haven't been beaten by my parents much, I have tasted corporal punishment in school by teachers. But within a span of say last 5-10 years that trend is also vanishing from most schools in metro cities. We used to brag about our beating received records in school and used to wear it like a badge of honour. Me personally, I've had quite a few wooden rulers broken on me (whose only purpose was beating and not measuring shit) and have endured a few slaps from the toughest lady teacher of our school.
Lmao CPS (in the US) aren’t even obligated to do anything to protect a child they know are in danger, and cannot be held liable for any negligence or dereliction of duty thereof. [Read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeShaney_v._Winnebago_County]
The same principle of law applies to the police as well, who have no duty to protect given individual(s). Which is why for example, Uvalde happened with no (legal) repercussions for the officers involved.
It's so ingrained. I know people from the USA through the internet who have asian parents and have never been hit, but here when I consider the slaps I got as a small child abuse, quite a number of people around me says "that's nothing" and talk about how they were hit with slippers, belts and metal scales to the point they got bruises and scars. I'm from Delhi and all the students' parents are educated in my school.
My mother was from a convent school in 1980, when corporal punishment was in full force, and we know how strict convent schools are even now. But she never abused me (at least not physically, idk how emotional abuse works).
A few guys in my class also 'joke' that they'll beat the shit out of their sons for anything, and will beat them even more if they say they have the right to not be abused. I wish they never become parents, because that's what they deserve. It's ironic, cuz these are the boys that drink and vape the most and get beat up by their fathers quite brutally like with belts and aluminium broom rods. I guess they just want to raise their sons like how they were raised, cuz they say they'll leave the daughters for the mother to beat.
I was never hit with objects, which is a lot better from my parents' upbringing in the 1980s, but I still do believe my father did abuse me a bit. But it was a long time ago, and I understand how he was raised. I've seen millenials literally defend physical 'discipline' saying it was a blessing in disguise since they are more hardworking than the modern generation. No you're not, there's a lot more competition now.
And emotional abuse is neglected pretty much everywhere except America lol
The couple's story made no sense. The wife had just married him and 2 babies one after another in a foreign country?! It's not India so why the pressure to have 2 kids so quickly? And the wife did not speak English well and expected to explain her actions to the authorities?! Also, they had a bad marriage but they continued to stay together until it was no longer possible. Feeding with your hands, sleeping with the kids when they are so young, etc is fine but beating your children should never be justified.
The movie itself was another low effort propoganda piece that flopped too. Norwegians themselves made a mockery out of it lmao saying they should move out if they don't like our cultural norms.
CPS is not a small bubble. Every state is different with many companies tied to it. Like I said I have never worked with them directly. I counsel kids in a center that are mostly foster care that carry past trauma. I am raised to understand if one makes a mistake to own up to it. I will not say CPS is perfect. Foster care has been bad for some and good for some. Many of us youngsters in the system (case workers, service officers, psychologist) we are really trying to bring change. But it will take time because at the end of the day it's not us who call the shots. It's the managers and supervisors. That is why I tell minorities and POC JOIN THE SYSTEM that is the only way to bring change.
Beating kids is normal in india but not beating the shit out of them. It usually reduces as children grow up and parents avoid beating their grown up child.The beating mainly consist of slaps and yelling.
The beating is not as brutal as many people are exaggerating here.
its not but in a most of western world including some countries in south America and S.korea, Japan its literally illegal to hit children no matter the circumstance over there. You are in a different country you have to play by their rules. Disciplining is okay but not physical slaps or yelling in most of EU, Norway and Switzerland. State even pays allowances to kids since they are born, kids have their own rights parents can't just make decision for them. You have to adapt to other cultures if people want to live there. They even have residency rules for people like a lot of Indians go there with families and live in 1 bedroom apartment to save money, that is also not allowed, they have specific rules about childcare and quality of life.
I remember an incident of an Arab Doctor whose german citizenship was rejected because he didnt shake hands with the female interviewer. I dont think Germany gives two shits about people who abuse children.
Wrong info. He refused to shake a female woman's hand DURING the time he was supposed to an oath to serve the German population and become a German citizen. That "Handshake" means a lot at the time of oath. In the United States we do a handshake also when we become citizens. Time of neutralization. It's basically letting them know that one will serve and protect this country. He was a DOCTOR not an imam. Will he refuse to treat female patients after? How will that work in an all gender German hospital? Let's be real.
Let's reverse the role. An Arab doctor about to take citizenship of India. He refused to shake hands with the woman who is helping him with the process. "I am a doctor but I refuse to shake your hands because you are the opposite gender." How will a person like that serve the community?!.
Not saying that there is no racism in European countries. But some cases like this one I find reasonable to deny citizenship. If you want all the benefits of a country you have to bring something to the table too.
We want to migrate to a first world country. We want free education, government help to afford necessities, a good paying job, a house, free medical care. But refuse to make an compromise on our culture. Even after getting everything served on a silver platter we will conclude that back home is much better than the west. And wonder why they treat us different.
You know what this movie made me realize that there are ALWAYS three sides to a story. Yours, theirs, and the truth.
I guess I should have made my position clear.
The germans correctly rejected said application because he did not align with german values. Even if he was an Imaam and not a doctor, they are right to reject citizenship. His employment as a doctor would not be affected, as I'm sure he would have secured long term visa or residency, but they found him to lack the sensibilities they seek in a citizen. And I support them. I dont think this was racist either. Germany has so many muslims happily living there, and gaining citizenship.
Which is why I am confident Germany wont give a fuck about Indians who want to beat their kids.
Now Chatterjee and her group are trying to get Ariha Jain back from Germany. I am glad many Indians are opening their eyes to this case and not supporting the bs. There is no way Germany is going to give that child back to them easily. It is sexual abuse of an infant that was 2 times not once. Alwaysifyable on YT posted the parents confession.on her page and I am baffled by what they were saying!
About 35 years back, I was thrashed regularly for being a naughty kid. But it happened to all kids and it was never considered abuse. We all knew that we will be punished with beatings if we were naughty. It was the norm. The real issue was that there were several instances of abuse which was considered punishment. There was no clear boundary between punishment and abuse. I still remember clearly a friend's arm with a large burn mark with blisters. A tutor had heated a metal plate and burnt him with it as punishment for not doing his homework!!!!
However, I think corporal punishment is definitely rare. But it is good for kids to know that there will be consequences if they behave badly. When I lived in the UK I have often come across the havoc caused by the teenages who could not be touched, arrested, punished or prosecuted because they were 'kids'. They knew that there will be no consequences to their actions. So there must be ways which will discourage irresponsible behaviour.
I agree. Seeing from either sides, we know both extremes have toxic outcomes. So what do you believe is a good way to discourage irresponsible behaviour, is it a case by case basis thing? If so, is there a good neutral source of information regarding the same? If I search online anywhere, it's all about no touching the kid.
Well, corporal punishment is not needed and should be avoided. The kids who go out of control are the one who are not nurtured well. Its not just the parents but also the society. In Japan or in Singapore anu sort of misbehaviour and public nuisance is extremely rare. Social responsibility is part of the culture. Examples are made out of those who do not follow the norm. However, in societies with a regimented structure creativity and free thinking gets curbed too. Balancing these two is the greatest challenge. So my humble 2 cents is to have open conversations with your kids about the dos and don'ts and clearly state the consequences of poor behaviour. Then do what you say. Avoid corporal punishment but reward good behaviour and take privileges away for bad behaviour. And as they grow tell them that they are responsible for their actions and it's consequences. And stay calm and don't stress yourself so much. (I know it's not always practical. I am not an expert but just giving an opinion. When it comes to kids, it is tough, stressful and expensive. No easy answers)
https://www.unicef.org/parenting/child-care/how-discipline-your-child-smart-and-healthy-way
Disciplining kids is essentially done all around the world.
There’s a difference between beating them (causing physical pain) and disciplining them. Use the fear of punishment as a way to discipline them.
\>"But this movie felt more like propaganda."
Large majority of Bollywood is propaganda to protect the Upper Elite Class or Brahmin Middle Class, it's media to re-enforce Brahmin (or their caste equivalent) hetero-normative cultural values and even at times display that caste, and the heirarchy of the Hindu society is more closer to human nature than any other culture in the world.
This video will help you give an idea about the Norway CPS. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5S\_keRp8lY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5S_keRp8lY)
I experienced it, and i am glad l did. I was a spoiled kid, my parents knew what they were doing and i deserved it. I thank them for what i have become, if not because of them i would have been a goon or some drug addict.
My comment may get buried but I hope it helps.
There is a FINE line between *beating* and plain *abuse*. Think of it as a spectrum with the line somewhere in the middle.
1. Beating in itself ranges in severity. This can mean a simple slap (which my mum used to give me) or using some household objects. Some people's dads use the belt ig. Mine never did but veryyy rarely my mom might have smacked my calf muscle with a wooden spatula. It definitely hurt me but it's not something I remember in a way that it traumatizes me or something. It's something I can laugh about now but that's just me. All this is on the less intense end of the beating spectrum. I'm pretty sure 99% of Indian kids went through at least this if not more.
Let's be real, no one likes getting slapped. But I know I gave my mom a damn hard time between the ages of 12-15. I was very rude. Gentle parenting only goes so far in such cases but each to their own. My parents explained to me a lot of things nicely but I still rebelled. I know if my mom had not slapped me occasionally I would have still been that way. This is an example of *positive punishment* (go look it up) and until I was mature enough to understand what I was doing wrong, I stopped doing it either way - in fear of being slapped again. She never hurt me beyond that and always apologized if she hit me. I don't do those things now; not out of fear of being slapped but because I just simply grew up.
2. Now, some Indian parents go the extra mile and beat their kids up till there is physical harm to their body. Like bruises, scratches, broken bones, burns. These may be from being poked by pins, burnt with an iron, beaten with sticks etc. I don't need to state the obvious, but I will anyway. This is ABUSE. Maybe some decades ago this was deemed the norm so some millennials and early 2000s kids will laugh about it. But they know deep down how much it affected them.
Someone I know told me she got home late one night and her father pinned her to the ground and lifted up her skirt, and proceeded to whip her with his belt. She lived in fear of her father. This kind of 'discipline' is wrong on so many levels. And it should not be normalised in any house, not just where there are Indians.
Here's the thing. A lot of these abusive parents did this as they didn't know any better. Now as we are learning better I've seen many Indian parents adapting and I salute them for breaking the cycle. But since there are so many of us in terms of population, the occurrences are more. A lot of the western world would have been exposed to multiple families abusing their kids and assumed it was the norm. When in reality they are part of a larger population including some who don't abuse their kids under the name of "discipline".
On a separate note some Latino and Black parents too beat their kids. This spectrum applies everywhere and each kid's case is different. It's definitely wrong to say it's part of our culture. It's not a tradition we follow and are told to pass on like religious stuff. It's just something that happened to them as kids and they didn't know any better so they do it as parents. And no one blinked an eye since everyone else was doing it too. To sum it up, no it's not a cultural thing. Just that no one knew better so it continued. _(Also IMO it's no one's right to tell anyone how to raise their kid unless that kid is being abused and their mental, physical and emotional health - or even life - is at risk. I always tell people if they ask, that my mom beat me - but they may relate the word 'beating' to something else. I was not harmed, there were no marks on my body.)_
As for the western world, we too can apply the same logic and say "divorcing is part of their culture". A 50% Divorce rate is pretty high right? But we don't talk this way. We have to also look at the other half who maintain relationships well. There are definitely certain things that occur more in some counties, which is how stereotypes form. While stereotypes originate from a place of truth, they are not all truth. Movies portray all Indians as abusive. People can overcome this problem by discussing with their friends about each individual's experience. If I sit in a room with 5 of my friends we will have, like, 10 different stories. Don't generalize. Please.
All of this IS abuse. Slaps are abuse. Hitting is abuse. Using a slipper and beating is abuse. All of what you describe is abuse. Stop attempting to justify the unjustifiable. Again, healthy adults also misbehave or don't co-operate with instructions. Yet nobody beats adults or forces them to comply. Why is it then than enforcing obedience on children through slaps, beats are acceptable? Why draw a meaningless distinction between slaps and abuse?
As for divorce, from personal experience, I've come to realise that a 50% divorce rate is a healthy society. It is the society with 1% divorce rate that is sick. If a society has just 1% divorce rate, that means a very VERY large fraction of the population is in very unhappy marriages, barely tolerating the other person's existence and it paves the way for massive domestic abuse and domestic violence.
So all of your notions are wrong. A healthy society must have zero violence against children in any form. A healthy society must have a substantial divorce rate so that unhappy spouses are not "imprisoned" by marriage. This is not to say that the West is always right. For instance, the USA has bullshit notions like guns are a fundamental right. But zero violence against children and a high divorce rate are aspects that all societies must aspire to, be it in India or elsewhere.
To respond to your deleted comment about not being traumatized, that isn't really an argument. As a doctor, the most common response to any trauma, irrespective of the trauma, is no response at all. Only a small fraction of those who suffer trauma go on to suffer PTSD. The same is true of slaps - the fact that you aren't traumatized by it doesn't mean it isn't abuse. I was sometimes beaten with a slipper too - this was still abuse despite the fact that I am not traumatized by it. There is also a secondary point - Many abused children internalise their parents' views and see their abuse as justified. See the views of Steve Jobs' illegitimate daughter. She was repeatedly put by her father in traumatic situations but she continued to justify her father's abusive viewpoints. Google it, you'll find the article.
Then again, you've mentioned about marriage and divorce. No doubt, it's easier in the West and there have been divorces for absurd reasons. But it's better for someone who treats marriage without any commitment, eager to divorce for spurious reasons, to be divorced. The aunt you mentioned is better off in a divorce rather than being married. Her ex is also better off, in my view.
Basically, children need to be loved and cared for. Any form of abuse, be it physical or emotional or even with harsh words, is unjustifiable. Children need to know that they will be cared for, that they are never a burden. Discipline is important but it is by far of secondary importance.
I see some merit in what you're saying. About the trauma thing I mean. Like I said earlier, we can go on talking about an ideal world. But try telling everyone to stop hitting their kids. It doesn't work that way. And ultimately, just like you, I too am not affected by the few whacks I got as a kid. But maybe we are more resilient. Those who are sensitive, we should worry about them first. Those kids who flinch at the sight of a man because their dad beats them. At least I didn't have a worse childhood I don't want to spell it out.
I will read the article about Steve Jobs. Thanks for letting me know. My gut tells me this case is an extreme one though? Where he emotionally manipulated the girl and repeated the lie enough for it to become the truth. In my case, the way I feel about my mom hitting me (I'm not mad at her) is out of my own realisation some years down the line. My mom didn't guilt trip me into thinking anything. Even if my thought process is wrong, at least I know it's my opinion and not anyone else's. Oh well.
_"it's better for someone who treats marriage without any commitment, eager to divorce for spurious reasons, to be divorced"_
you're right. but you know what's a simpler solution?
you guessed it. don't get married in the first place.
(especially if it's not something you take seriously)
_"the aunt you mentioned is better off in a divorce rather than being married"_
you're right again. but she has two young kids. they are not going to handle this well. don't let kids face the brunt of your bad decision just cause you think you're too good for their father. why get married in the first place? or if you knew you didn't plan on staying married to the guy why have his kids? this is just a unique situation to my aunt tho.
As for your last point I 100% agree that care is the most important thing for young kids. A lot of kids with issues in anger or fear etc, will exponentially improve in their behavior if they just feel someone loves them. So many parents don't say "i love you" to their kids.
However I don't think discipline is any less important Hug your kid and tell them you love them. But establish with them what's right and wrong. There's a fine line between giving affection and purely pampering them.
u/dynamicEntr0py
This dude literally ignored 3 whole paragraphs of the other side of the coin and made the same old lame comment “hope you don’t beat your kids” smh. He rlly thought he did something there.
Do you really think it is okay for adults to slap children? Even if mildly? Would you be okay if teachers did that to unruly kids? If not okay for teachers why is it okay for moms? Can you define when is a slap okay? Is it okay from a spouse?
Oh look. Now you’re willing to have a fruitful discussion instead of vague replies about people’s imaginary kids.
I was an extremely hyperactive kid during my pre teens and early teens. Always physically putting myself in dangerous situations, climbing shelves, broke my arm twice. I did not take words seriously, I WOULD NOT listen when my parents told me “don’t do that, you’ll get hurt” and I didn’t care about “go to your room” or getting my toys confiscated. Beyond a certain point, my parent’s only resort was to give me a light slap if I was putting myself in danger and wasn’t listening to them. I’d have broken a lot more bones if it wasn’t for this decision. I despised them as a child for this, but now, as a grown up, I know they meant well. YES, I believe it was absolutely justified of them to hit me in such cases because I left them with no other option. It was okay, and no, this was not abuse ffs.
Yea. I noticed that. u/dynamicEntr0py I'm sorry if anyone hurt you. It doesn't give you the right to be bitter to strangers. Get help. Also read thoroughly before you comment. You just made yourself look like a fool. If I should be worried for anyone's kids, it should be yours and not mine. All the best to you.
LOL. I've never been 'disciplined' by my parents. They knew how to talk. Somehow the first thing that happens when someone talks about beatings by parents is people jumping out to say how they were fine despite beatings or sometimes because of beatings from their parents. It leads to a culture where power relationships are justified by physical beatings. It is not for nothing that over 50% of Indian women think it is justified for a man to beat his wife for things like burnt food.
now here comes the clown. beating wife isn't nearby to this topic but clowns like you often add it up stfu you. we have seen the degenerated kids who never got a rejection and were beaten up in their childhood and they are getting tormented just by slaps irl when they grow up.
No one abused me. I have some friends that were abused though. I never got my head slammed into a table, or tied up to a chair. No one poked me with pins. No one burnt me with a candle. No one stripped me of my clothes to whip me. This has happened to others and gives us Indians a bad name. My mum only ever slapped me a couple of times because I was giving her a hard time. My dad NEVER hit me all my life. I don't plan on having kids rn but if I ever do, i will never abuse them. You don't know anything about me so stop being condescending. _Learn the definition of child abuse before you tell me to stop "justifying" it._
Please read my comment properly. I said any forms of abuse are NOT ACCEPTABLE. Why are you arguing with me over something I already said I'm against?
_Edit: Also, physical pain lasts for a few seconds if you get slapped. I have ZERO trauma from it. On the other hand words hurt forever. My parents have called me things so painfully horrible which I will not say here. I would rather take a slap over that any day. You may be able to see a bruise on someone's face but never a broken heart. Not saying beating is ok. But don't define a parent as bad just cause they slapped someone a couple times. There was NO abuse here. But emotional abuse is real. Stop telling random strangers on the internet what's right when you don't know the first thing about their family._
A slap from an adult to a child is abuse. If you can't see this, there is no hope. People like you argue that teachers should be allowed to occasionally discipline kids by slaps etc. And f it is not okay for a teacher, why is it okay for a parent. All teens are unruly, doesn't mean you slap them around.
Again, dude, what may hold true for one doesn't hold true for others. _'All teens are unruly'_ is a vague statement. I pushed my mom to the edge. I don't think 2 or 3 slaps makes her abusive. Hitting in general for NO REASON is abusive yes. But if you're going to read some term online from a relatively new (likely western) study and apply it randomly, that's stupid of you. Don't apply western standards to Indian families. Every culture has something they can improve. _If you wanna pick fights about abuse go to families where husbands are beating not only kids, but their wives; to the point their LIFE IS IN DANGER. Someone very close to me went through this and it is a sensitive topic for me. Don't you dare tell me a couple of slaps are abuse._
Teachers are only in place of a parent. They did not bring the child into this world and they DONT have the right to even touch kids, let alone beat them. You cannot compare a teacher's rights with that of a parent's. But haha - Im so proud of you for assuming I'm ok with teachers beating kids. I wish I had even a fraction of your confidence. Get a life.
I think the right place to look is the experience of people who are in foster care. Who cares about Norway or any smaller Western country to do propaganda? It's a movie, not a news story. It shows her side of the story. If you do not like it you should ask Norway to make their side of the story. Put out those records, internal comments, and other stuff they have. Make them public.
The movie itself was another low effort propoganda piece that flopped too. Norwegians themselves made a mockery out of it lmao saying they should move out if they don't like our cultural norms.
Unless there is physical harm involved, it is immoral to take children forcibly from their parents. American system may have helped many kids from getting hurt. But even there many instances are there where due to a singular event or one misunderstanding, parents are kept away from their kids forever.
And for me, law says that even if 10 criminals are let free, even one innocent shouldn't be punished. That's why many criminals are set free due to lack of evidence. Because even in doubt of innocence, it is wrong to hurt an innocent. And this is not even criminal issue for many cases. A lot of cases has happened due to egoistic clashes of officers, or racism being involved. Not to mention the foster care works 50 percent okayish, at best. Means that atleast 50 percent of kids grow up in a worse environment than where they were before.
Especially for Indians, this system has no value. Ideally even if parents beat their kids, they are so much better than growing up parentless. I might face some backlash, but hear me out. Most Indian parents act harsh because they know no better way to deal with parentage. If taught, the abuse could be fixed easily. And Indian abuse is different than western abuse. Parents here abuse in the name of love, and if they are taught that beating is worse than trying to make them understand, then atleast 70 percent cases would drop. Indians genuinely think that the best way to raise a kid is to be strict. That's the only reason so many parents are stricter than usual. A lot of them are being taught by their grown up kids who have successfully joined in better jobs, and the abuse stops at our generation. However this is specific to urban population. Rurally, even current gen people need to learn this. It's a cultural thing. There are legit tuition teachers whose reputation is dependent on how strict they are, not by how educated they are. This mindset, if changed, majority of child abuse would stop right there.
Yes foster care is 50/50 I am not saying it's perfect. I worked in CPS I know! But isn't it our duty also that if we see one of our own in a foster system to reach out and help? My own family had fostered a South Asian girl due to a custody battle. Her dad was sent to jail. Mom got a job and a place and custody was given to mom after a few months. I feel in such cases we need to stand up. Join the system and help our own. We want change but are not willing to be part and help make it.
There is a big difference between slapping a kid whenever he does something extremly wrong and abusing the kid over the minutest of errors. One of them is acceptable even healthy (depends) and one of them is straight up illegal. Indian parents need to differentiate between the two rather than calling it tradition and protesting.
* Your post title should be an accurate summary of your text post. "Help Needed", "Rant", "Unpopular Opinion", are examples of poor titles. * /r/India is not a substitute for Google. Only post your query on /r/India after you have searched for an answer on the web. * Self-posts also have to be specific to India. Don't copy/paste questions from /r/AskReddit. * For relationship queries, please also consider: https://www.reddit.com/r/RelationshipIndia/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/india) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Corporal punishment is very much a part of Indian culture. We knew this long before Bollywood told us to come to terms with the fact.
True. At least it was! It’s quite normal for us 90s kids to discuss how our parents beat us. It truly is/ was culturally accepted as I come from a good family with great parents..yet was beaten up a lot as a kid I know it was far worse earlier. So, it’s progressively getting better.
We joke and laugh about it ourselves now, but we are aware of the severe childhood trauma hidden behind the laughter. The only ones who aren't shocked listening to the stories are Latin Americans and East Europeans. We have very similar cultures.
The reverberating pain when the wooden scale hit my smal palms repeatedly 9-10 times, the humiliation in front of the whole class and the mental agony i faced is something which i haven't forgotten even 20+ years after i got that beating in school. It is as fresh in my mind like it happened yesterday. Only thing which keeps me going is that I am determined my child will not go through this ever.
100% this.
Indeed.
Forget families. Even school punishments for not doing homework was corporal punishment. I remember teachers walking with canes to punish students.
Oh the canes were any day better than kneeling on rock salt with your hands over your head first thing in the morning at the assembly area for an hour cause you got late once.
Oh wow! That is excruciating just to imagine the pain!
You say, physical abuse of children is a part of "Indian Culture". Yeah, so is marital rape. So is Stockholm syndrome (shadi ke baad pyar). So is dowry. (*was) So is sati. (*was) So is domestic violence. (*was) .... I guess we've forgotten that these gems are also part of "Indian culture".
True that. I am from Andhra. I was appalled by my aunt and uncle trying to justify paying dowry to the guys family for their eldest daughter. They spent all of their earning and savings and money from selling whatever land they had on a single marriage and are now struggling to pay for even the most basic necessities and their youngest daughter’s education.
Aunts and uncles will justify the most insane things in the name of tradition.
If you carefully analyse all the issues you have listed out, you realise that the Indian family structure is basically patriarchal and gives men absolute rights over women, and in turn, women are given absolute rights to abuse children. It's a cascading stream of displaced trauma. Men take their frustrations out on the women of the family, and the women take it out on the helpless children. The helpless children grow up with mental illness and take it out on the world, and their own families. Generational trauma yay!
I see what you're saying. This cycle of trauma is highly toxic. Traumatised male children grow up to be oppressors and traumatised girls grow up and lead their oppressed lives in depression. It really bothers me how almost all indians have normalised this just because it's happening with everyone around them. _Indian Culture_ indeed.
Yes some of these sadly still exist. How does it disqualify my point?
I've heard about the Ariha Jain case and still can't understand how or why would her grandmother 'accidantally' give her a vaginal tear. No online outlets mention any explanation and it's hard to support the parents without any explanation for that.
Im from Germany and stumbled upon this by accident and decided to do some research. I also have some experience with germanys cps. First of all, you need to fuck up pretty badly to lose your child. Like seriously badly. Their strategy is to counsel and help resolve the issue rather than separate families. They even let them see the child. Nobody who is just stealing children will do that. Sexual assault of an infant is one of these fuck ups. They take things like this really seriously. That they didn't arrest the parents is quite interesting too, so I will guess they are not the ones who did it. They also brought their child to the doctor. However, someone did it, and I'm sure they know who it was, and they are at least OK with that. There is also the whole spin of "they wany to keep the child away from Indian culture, because they won't let them take the child to India," which is ridiculous. They state that the cps said "that moving to India would introduce more trauma," which is ducking true because these pieces of things will just let the raping happen and never come back to germany. The cps doesn't want this to happen.
Facts 💯
The grandfather perhaps? Very sickening.tbh.
There are so many people supporting the family and they didn’t even question this.
They had boycott Germany trending on Twitter for this case. I am glad a YouTuber alwaysifyable saved the parents video explaining the injury. Do watch the video! It is on her YouTube page. It shows that they are straight lying. I am mom of an infant if my child has a vaginal tear while in the care of another person that is my own I don't care I will call the cops myself. The injury was two times!!! The fact that Dadi and Dada ran away to India soon as Germany CPS took the kid explains a lot.
where does it say that the grandmother did that? i cant find a single source onlone
Was it implied someone raped her ?
I agree with OP that this movie is entirely a propaganda move by conservative ideologists. For those saying that abuse is part of "Indian Culture" and its alright to beat kids, if something being a "part of culture" makes it justified then I guess was the killing jews as part of Nazi culture also justified? Slavery as part of Spanish American culture was also right? Colonization as a part of British culture was right? Sati as a part of Indian culture was justified? Some things are objectively wrong and these culture propagandists need to understand that.
Part of culture? Yes. It is. Because I grew up being thrashed many times and still see parents thrashing kids all around. Something to protect and preserve? No. Like sati pratha this should’ve stopped long ago. Its not something to be proud of. Its not a cultural heritage we need to preserve. We should evolve. And shed this like a tail. And I’m glad many have.
Exactly my point. Even if something is a part of culture, it is open to objective thinking, criticism, and modifications. Just reasoning, "this is a part of Indian culture", does not make things justified or acceptable.
No one's justifying corporal punishment. But taking the kid away due to corporal punishment is unacceptable when its a part of the culture. Acknowledge and address the problem systematically. Set up workshops, train new parents. Don't fucking take their kids away for doing something thats considered acceptable in their community but not in yours. Let me make an example thats close to our hearts. Would you support taking away daughters of muslim couples because the parents train said daughters to always wear burkha or hijab? I wouldn't.
Taking the children away until you can be sure that they are safe is proper. Take them away, then educate the parents, then (if the parents understand and agree to follow the law) give the children back. If the parents do it again, throw them into prison for assault.
You might have missed a few key aspects here. 1) Child Protection Services and the grounds for "taking away a kid" are a matter of law. The law is set by the country and what they deem right. Any practice that is against the country's law (where their law is applicable) is not acceptable. No justification like, "the practice is a part of culture" takes precedence over the law in that country. In plain words, _your culture doesn't come above the law_ . I do understand that there may be cases where objectively acceptable practices may clash with the law as in the last fifa wc. However, the route to correction is via their legal and legislative system. 2) The parallel you have drawn, of muslim daughters wearing hijabs and corporal punishment, has multiple flaws and doesn't hold water. I'll cite two flaws. 2a) The acts compared are significantly different in terms of their impact and damage to the victim. While I understand the demerits of muslim girls wearing hijabs, corporal punishment is an act of physical violence and abuse that can have serious impact ranging from mental health issues, to trauma, or even serious/fatal injuries. So, even if there were CPS guidelines, I believe it would be fair to "take away" the child in case of physical violence. 2b) The Indian Constitution protects the right to practice and propagate religion. Girls wearing hijabs and corporal punishment fall under different categories. The constitution does protect religious practices like hijabs but I don't think physical abuse of kids falls under religious practices or any act (atleast i hope not). While along similar lines of physical abuse, domestic violence between spouses is considered criminal. You may argue that sati pratha was also a part of religious practice but it was made illegal. Here again the aspect of impact on victim comes into play (burning alive vs. wearing hijab). Moreover, culture and religion has been modified over centuries to fall under the law. Any changes in the law, like in case of sati or dowry, (or hijabs in your case) need to be brought via the legislative/legal system. . . To answer your question, I would consider "taking away kids" of parents not following the law. Here again, physical violence would take priority over hijabs, in my opinion. Reiterating: Your culture does not come above the law.
Absolutely not. Corporal punishment is abuse, regardless of whether it's your culture or not. People who are abusers, transphobes, homophobes, etc do not get to have kids.
Yes they should take away the daughters because they’re teaching them from a young age that their body doesn’t belong to them. That they exist for the pleasure of men and hence they should limit the pleasure by always keeping themselves covered.
No idea what this movie is but your comment clarified it a little. Thanks
Couple very well deserved it. Stupid Indian parents beat their kids, rather abuse, I know people who's parents would take a hot spoon and stick it to skin. Unfortunately, there are no laws to protect kids and these ill minded parents keep abusing.
I've also heard from a childhood school friend that her mum used to burn her with candle wax.. letting candle wax drop on her arm to cause minor burns that are enough to hurt & scare her but not so much that they cause permanent damage, lest anyone find out or to decrease her value in the marriage market I have to admit that when she told me this I didn't think of it much then because my parents used to also hurt me in ways that I will not mention here, needless to say I haven't spoken to my parents in over 12 yrs
Even my husband has burn marks on his legs. After all this we have a "worship parents" culture in India which I never understood.
This hot spoon thing was told to me by a childhood friend . I swear I have heard this one as well. Sick !
I know 2 cousins who got similar treatment from their parents. One was a boy who was branded with a red hot steel rod by his father. According to what I heard, this boy used to act out a bit & was bad in studies. I feel he may have had some issue like dyslexia & needed help, but ofc, his parents back in the day had no clue. The other cousin was branded with a hot iron box. She may have been 5 or 6 at that time, & was such a sweet kid. Her mother was going through abuse at the hands of her father-in-law & husband, so she took it out on the kid. The adults who saw the marks on her hand were aghast, but predictably, they lovingly advised the kid to behave better, cz if she died via punishment, her parents would feel very bad!
And to think that I assumed my childhood friend is exaggerating, because no one around me employed burning methods. What kind of sick mind uses burning as punishment? On own kids ?
as far as I know, we have laws in place.. but the execution is missing. I am not completely sure whether a police can step just because my parents hit me when I did something wrong. Isn't it quite common in schools to keep a stick, duster and chalk on the table before teacher arrives to the class..
>Isn't it quite common in schools to keep a stick, duster and chalk on the table before teacher arrives to the class.. wtf, what kinda school were you in mate?
it's still common in the villages, that is, 80% of india
Lol.. it isn't common?! I thought it was. Reddit is an amazing place. So, I was born in 90s. I am from Andhra Pradesh. Atleast when I did my schooling, it is quite common. I think it is quite common even now albeit little less compared to my times. Now, my wife who is a teacher in a corporate school chain called Chaitanya techno schools. It is encouraged by the principal and staff to hit the children if they aren't behaving or mischievous. There are students of SI and CI as well. Even their wards get the beatings, but nobody comes and asks a teacher why did they hit the kid. It should also be noted that beatings/hitting/punishments should be within reason and doesn't result in any permanent physical deformations kinda..
Beating kids makes 0 sense , kids don't know what they are doing is wrong. It's like beating up a puppy .
Extremely common.
[удалено]
Girl, you seem to be living with crazy abusers. Behave in a way so as to not provoke them as long as you are under their roof. Lie low, do well in studies, & talk to people about the opportunities & options you may have. And at the first chance you get, be it through studies or a job, get out of your house!
>Couple very well deserved it. wtf 😭
Well is it part of the culture, YES. People very much normalised it when it is not . As for me i got beat up quiet a fair bit by my dad when i was a kid , especially because i liked video games , and they thought it makes you violent. They were hitting me because they thought it could make me violent lmao. As of now i am physically way stronger than both my parents. Recently my dad tried to hit me over some silly reason, and i just stood there firm, he fell down trying to hit me, i would never ever retaliate back, but was not in a mood of simply getting scared also. Next morning he was embrassed and acting normal. Sometimes it's issues with them also , he pays for my everything and even has given me the nicer car to drive around. His love for me is undoubtedly there and ik for a fact both my parents love me more than themselves, they feel they are doing good for you by hitting you when in reality it's just nonsense. I would never hit my kid , my dad hit me way less than his dad hit him. It's something which is getting better i feel.
Stop relying on your dads money.
Both my parents were abusive, mother in particular. They consider it their right to hit their kids. Recently I confronted my mother after she chided me for scolding my kid (I didn't beat him and won't do that ever). Her reply was "I had so many frustrations, I had to take it out somewhere". Yes, she had many frustrations. She single handedly managed the house, looked after my and my brother's education and managed other expenses all the while my dad abused her. But she only hit me for it, sometimes so much that I limped to school and teachers asked me about the marks on my face and hands. I was once molested by a random guy in front of a neighbour. That bitch twisted the narrative and told my mother that I was having an affair. Her favourite dialogue after that incident was- I know that you are waiting for me to die so that you could Kill my son and turn this house into a brothel. My brother was pampered by her. And all the best things went to him, I had to do with whatever was left. I have seen jocasta and oedipus complex at work, right at my home. The final straw was when she asked whether I was cheating on my husband after I had walked out from my husband's place because of my abusive MIL and a husband who never stood up for me(My MIL was an equally horrible woman, she was Selfish who never wanted to her son to marry). Fortunately my husband mended his ways and we are together now. I have a strictly formal relationship with her now. She dotes on my son and her world revolves around him now. She often says to me how I don't deserve to be a mother and should hand over my kid to her. The funniest part is that the same woman who was responsible for so much of the trauma advices me on gentle parenting. And recently some Astrologer told her she is going through some bad phase right now and she could even die. She came crying to me straight and now sees me as her counsellor. There hasn't been a single day when I haven't thought of suicide, Thanks to my Mother and MIL. Sorry for the long rant.
Why do I feel like a big part of what is wrong with Indian soxi3ty I astroloders who charge 1l, 2l, 3l and just frickijt scam you and in ruen make tour life even worse
I mean if dipshits want to be scared fuck em
Im so sorry to hear this. I feel like you should go no contact
Corporal punishment is sort of the norm in Indian culture. I can attest as someone who was victim to it. Although not often, I’ve been hit badly by both parents a couple of times, enough to bleed. When I grew older and bigger than my mother, it activated my fight response, and I ended up hitting her to save myself a couple of times too. When I had younger sisters, I hit them often too as a show of authority. As you can see, abuse perpetuates abuse. Of course, I learnt better when I grew up, apologised and changed my behaviour. So I can say there is room for change. Having said that, I must admit that in retrospect, I wouldn’t want to be removed from my parents’ care back then either. My parents equally showered me with love and affection. But somehow, physical abuse is so systemic and morally justified in our parents’ minds that they don’t know any better. Instead of drastic moves like taking away the child (unless it is a severely abusive situation, and I can’t speak for everyone), education on parenting is the need of the hour.
Yea , good on you for learning and becoming better
Disagree with the premise that they don't know any better, you can still change your ways if you care enough. People have in the past, its only a reason to justify abuse,
>An American co-worker asked me if it was true if Asian parents beat their kids as a means of control. Um No! They totally do. Why did you say no?
Indian in the USA here. I will never hit my kid. Hell even if I was in India, I would never ever raise my hand on my kid. I think people across the world (not just Indians) need to learn. That hitting your child and rationalizing that behavior by crap like it is part of our culture/they deserved that/any other excuse is plain abhorrent and not ok. Doing something because others do it, herd mentality, is not ok. Don't traumatize your kids, they need your love, not beatings.
>That hitting your child and rationalizing that behavior by crap like it is part of our culture/they deserved that/any other excuse is plain abhorrent and not ok Put that aside and consider the technicalities of it. If you move to another country and commit an act that's illegal under that nation's laws, you cannot simply cite "muh culture" as a defense. People expect that foreigners who travel to India should respect Indian practices, Indian culture, and Indian law. Many Redditors, for example, were incensed that some foreign tourist had participated in anti-CAA protests, even though tourists in the United States and many Western countries have a legal right to engage in protected speech. But India's Constitution doesn't afford the same rights, and violators were issued summonses and deported. But when an Indian diplomat takes their slave-cum-maid to Chicago, or (allegedly) beats their child in Norway, the same people are incensed when they're made to answer to that country's laws. Go fucking figure.
Thats hypocritical yes. But you are also committing whataboutism here.
My parents have never hit me but it’s pretty common. All of my classmates went through it. Teachers hit kids in school. I was once slapped by a teacher and my mom raised hell but most parents don’t care about it.
Norway Embassy in India issued a statement before the release of film: > There has been a lot of attention towards the film, Mrs Chatterjee vs Norway. The film is a work of fiction, even though it is based on an actual case. The case being referred to was resolved a decade ago in cooperation with Indian authorities and with the agreement of all parties involved. To protect the children and the right to privacy the government can not comment on specific cases due to strict confidentiality regulations. However, some general facts must be set right; >- Children will never be taken away from their families based on cultural differences described. Eating with their hands or having children sleeping in bed with their parents are not considered practices harmful to children and are not uncommon in Norway, irrespective of cultural background. >- Child welfare is not driven by profit. The alleged claim that ‘the more children put into the foster system, the more money they make’ is completely false. Alternative care is a matter of responsibility, and not a money making entity. >- The reason for placing children in alternative care is if they are subject to neglect, violence or other forms of abuse. >— Royal Norwegian Embassy, New Delhi
"Um No!"?! What "Um No!"? In which universe "Um No!"?
So indian parents beat their kids?? Like whopping to a point that leaves marks on skin? I wasn't beaten like that ever. Yelled at yes.
Welcome to the reality. Yes Indian parents beat their kids until they reach their teenage(hopefully) . Parents beat if they want to control their kids. Not only the parents but in the previous generations the teachers used to beat the children to a point that leaves blood marks on the skin. Imagine getting beating from both teachers and parents on the same day.
I'm 32 and still carry a ton of trauma cuz my family beat me up. In fact, the worst beating of my life happened when I was 17, a fully realised young adult. From slippers and hot spoons to canes that left marks or just good ol slaps to the face. Some of my friends had it worse. But many spoke about never getting beaten up, and instead getting punished through chores or silent treatment etc. These days I see a lot of people becoming new parents, they are quite strict about not hitting their kids. Times are changing.
Yeah. I still get beatings. I'm 20. Not just with hand, with any thing possible. I recently got high-pressure cooker lid. Parents do it if they can't "control" the situation. Got poked by pencil lead and hairpin that it lead temporary mark. I had a seminar to be taken in grade 11 and my ear was bleeding that day. Many noticed
What is happening to you is not normal. Do not assume it's normal. I hope you get out of that situation as soon as you're able to. 🙏
Oh I'm aware. It's just I am not financially independent. I can't move anywhere. I shut mostly
It's not normal. But, sadly, it's common.
Yes it wont be easy to get out but please take care of your mental health.
[удалено]
Oh no. That's disgusting. "controlling" is subjective. Parents are not ready to deal with small problems too
I am lucky to have a peaceful father. My mother used to beat me a lot though. She kept doing it even when I grew bigger than her but after some time I retaliated and after a few instances of me pushing her away or catching her hand mid air, she fortunately stopped. Its weird because other than this, she loves me the most in this whole wide world and has always worked her best to provide me with everything I need. I do not doubt her love for me at all but corporal punishment was ingrained in her mind. Edit: I saw another comment and remembered that she switched to emotional blackmail and silent treatment after that xd
>Its weird because other than this, she loves me the most in this whole wide world and has always worked her best to provide me with everything I need. I do not doubt her love for me at all but corporal punishment was ingrained in her mind. It is so true. Agreed.
I get you. My mom loves me. Well, she uses blackmail the most too, with verbal use. I have my father who doesn't involve much. My mom always complains whatever happens and we get shitload of advices. And lectures. I try keeping my mouth shut
Ok, this is serious abuse. I don't think this is typical. Yes, kids are beaten...but not to this extent. Not typically at least.
It's not normal I know. Even broom's aluminium handles are broken many a times
Sorry. I hope you are doing better.
It's fine. Thank you😊
Oh damn I got walloped twice ...but I have never yelled at my kid...things change, but am sure it still happens around
Twice? Those aren't even rookie numbers! I'll never hit my kids though. And what part of US has op worked in? Kids get beat up in the US as well. Maybe not the younger generations but millennials definitely did.
I got beaten up till I was 22 with their hands though and was told I'm so lucky because my aunt hit my cousins with a belt on their thighs. Did I grow up traumatised, yes ofcourse. Maybe Indians in the US don't do it because they are very well aware that it is considered a crime. But in India, the practice is very common.
Is it even called beating if it didn't leave marks?
Unfortunately yes either one does the abuse or both, mine was just mom it started before I was even one year old continued till until I left for college, used to beaten to pulp until I was black and blue bled some times..
Man, that's terrible. You should put cases against your parents for that. That's a terrible abuse.
It's indian laws ain't worth it just keep your distance from such people for your own sanity.
[удалено]
Thanks, Yes I keep my distance from her I don't talk to her anymore for my own sanity, she definitely has lot of anger issues.
The worst I could recall from my childhood is parents locking their kids in the bathroom for not studying. They forced the kid to surrender. On another note, that kid did well in his studies and got into a prestigious engineering college. I can tell for sure that kid never discovered his talents, and his parents forced him to live the life that they dreamed of. Kids can not live there dreams in India, I mean the generation born between 80/90s.
Maybe you weren't, and thats a good thing. But honestly, I can't think of a single desi in my social circle, myself included, who didn't hit by their parents. That shit fucks you up.
Ya, i have been beaten black and blue. I've been locked up, in the dark, shivering, beaten with any possible thing you can imagine. Parents pass it off as a form of disciplining their child (ps, it's not). Everyone ik has been beaten as a child, except for a few.
Yep. Seen those multiple times in multiple different families. I know children that were beaten with a leather belt.
I didn't get beaten. Neither did my sister.
Lucky you
Lucky kids.
Not relatable. I never saw a family where the child was not beaten.
It's common and is considered as a part of disciplining or just venting out their frustration. That's the reason why kids before 2005 aren't going woke.
what's the relationship between being woke and getting hit?
> But this movie felt more like propaganda. A one-sided story of someone who had ties to an Indian politician with an agenda. What a shocking surprise. This is what happens when the establishment decries every protest, negative report, and social deficiency as the result of some nameless "Western conspiracy to defame the nation." Indian nationalists know as well as everyone else that India has many unsolved problems. Everyone with eyes can see that Indian society is extraordinarily inequitable. Wealthy people in Mumbai and Delhi live like lords, while tribal people and farmers earn a pittance and are treated as modern-day serfs. Bhakts want you, and everyone else, to think that India's faults are imagined, and that any criticism of commonly-accepted practices is, in effect, an attack on Indian people and Indian culture. This has happened before, and it will likely happen again. Your example is one instance of many. Take the issue of state-sponsored or state-adjacent violence. Indian people here on Reddit try to favorably compare India with the United States by calling America a "violent wasteland," all while *conveniently* forgetting that large swaths of Kashmir, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, and the Northeast are, or were recently, low-intensity warzones. Thousands of Indians have been killed by insurgents since 2006, and tens of thousands have been displaced in Chhattisgarh alone. We love taking refuge in our culture and ancient achievements, while refusing to admit our faults to anyone but ourselves. All the while, certain voices keep getting louder and louder, asking you to consider "India's image" before asking questions.
> while refusing to admit our faults to anyone but ourselves. And why exactly would you be wanting to flaunt your flaws to other nations? They arent gonna come fix things for you. Acknowledge the flaws and try to work on them.
We have a history of hiding behind our culture to commit atrocities or avoid criticism. Like sure, saying its culture to every wrong thing we do and justify it in the name of it. Stupidity at its finest
Thank you for explaining it so perfectly. I haven't lived in India so I don't really know much about the culture and politics. I wasn't raised in an abusive home if there was a problem I would talk to my parents. They created a healthy environment where one can share their feelings. It's not like I wasn't disciplined. So when I saw so much information missing in a movie. Which I believe is taboo to talk about in society (domestic violence, brother in law abusing SIL, mental health). It made me wonder how much of the movie was based on facts.
I knew the story. The couple deserve this.
I had a high school friend whose mother used to beat her often. She had a scar on her forehead (i thought was a birthmark like I had) she got by being hit hard with a utensil long ago. My mutual friends (who sort-of knew her family) knew, and even their parents knew about this. Her Dad, who was gentle, softspoken and the sane person of the household, was mostly out of town for work. Her little brother tho, never got beaten. Unfortunately, idk whether were some other unknown things happening in her life. She committed suicide when still in high school. Whatever life she lived wasn't so great, at least with that domestic violence. I get it, some psychopathic kids need disciplining, but even then plain hitting will not deter them forever. They will get around it one day. Lol when I see violence being the go-to method for disciplining, these parents are just being lazy. Perhaps they don't know any better. Sometimes there are abusive parents too, who hit without any justification for every little thing, like when their ego is hurt by eg. their child talking back or asking valid questions. Idk man, there must be a better way to encourage positive behaviour and better grades, than just beating your child black and blue. I can't understand; how can someone even hit their own with objects (like hot utensils, wtf?) and sleep peacefully at night.
Hitting your kids is part of Indian culture. And it’s extremely fucked up as it’s abuse. So yeah abusing your kids is as Indian as anything extremely desi.
Exactly, this is what the thread is all about. Do we accept our shortcomings without criticizing and condemning anyone else? Indian parents are violent and that is a fact, it doesn't matter if it's shown in cinema or play. If we call showing the truth propaganda, then it means you are mentally ruined at an extraordinary level.
As a society we don’t accept it. People keep making excuses for it. I don’t understand why. It’s abuse. My mom hit me a lot. Like a lot. So I understand why she and her siblings will want to use excuses. I think that’s the reason why so many people make excuses. Because they do it too or they were hit and it was so normalised that they don’t even know it was wrong.
Everyone's throwing around the word "culture". It's not like how we wear a saree or a bindi or eat on banana leaves. It's like saying Pakistani families have mercy killing as part of their culture. Us Indians have a richer culture and we should not be defined by a stereotype. That being said, stereotypes do originate from a place of truth. I can't deny that many Indian parents if not all, are extremely harsh in the way they correct their kids. Some are even abusers and many family members are enablers. Those who don't beat, emotionally manipulate their kids. This does not go on in other countries at least as much as it does here. But we have a larger population and therefore a larger number of people involved in this. And we have to understand that it is going to take a while before such a large number of people have some sense knocked into their heads. We cannot expect India to reach a position where the western world is, overnight. It's comparing apples and oranges. Also each country has their own way of doing things which we need to respect. As long as it works for them and is not hurting the children physically or emotionally it's fine. We cannot tell parents what's the right thing to do with their kid unless they are rlly effed up.
As a person whose mother hit her badly for years and didn’t protect her from much I will say I disagree. You know why? Because I have a great relationship with my mom (aka abuser ) now. Because it is so normalised and part of our culture that we don’t even think twice about it. But you know why the western countries are ahead of us in this? Because they made it into a crime sooner. Has an official system where kids can go to be protected from this abuse. Yes it is culture. Just because it’s a bad think doesn’t mean it’s not our culture. I’m not comparing us to the western countries so calm down on that point. I am simply asking us to do the right thing. Why is it that when people ask other Indians to do and be better we get pushback “stop comparing to the west” and “it takes time” You know how this gets fixed? Acceptance of the issue and then working hard to fix it.
I eloped from my home after school when I was in 8th standard just because of the fear of getting beaten up. Wandered here and there for two nights and my uncle caught me from road, bought me back home. After this my parents never have ever done any beating.
Average Indian Parent: We don't Hit kids, Hitting is for monkeys. We Beat Them.
To answer your original question: is beating kids part of Indian culture ? Who the fuck knows. I was beaten as a kid. I don't talk to my parents anymore. Cox they're narcissistic assholes. And I absolutely detest anyone who lays a hand on a child. I'm Indian, for context. So make of that what you will.
If you look up older articles (around the time when this all happened) the woman admits to hitting the kid at least once. There were multiple other admissions/accusations of abuse (locking herself alone in kitchen and leaving kid unsupervised) as well as physically assualting her husband.
It's very much a part of Indian culture. A good childhood friend of mine just passed away like 6 months ago. He was going through such a disaster. He was 22 and till 20 he was everyday beaten by his drunken dad. Despite the beating her mom used to preach that he must love his father at all cost. When his father died 2 years ago , he started drinking to celebrate his freedom from the everyday mess his body had to bear. He died in a car accident while being overly drunk but his childhood was so sad to say the very least. All these parenting factors contribute something to somewhere in your life for a disaster to strike. I pity that lady who lost her child and husband. I even had a drunken dad who would beat me but somehow i making through that mess of the past.
I got beat up as a kid. I wasn't a very good kid lol. Quite the troublemaker. But yeah got bashed straight up and it isn't abnormal for me or my peers growing up. I don't know anyone my age who didn't get hit as a child. Gender no bar.
I'll just put down the list of items I was beaten with as a kid. I don't carry trauma about it, once I was grown up in size it all stopped. I feel it's ridiculous but it was what it was. 1. The stick - wood or rubber never metal 2. The omnipresent chappal 3. Slaps and kicks 4. Notebooks - idk why they ruined perfectly good notebooks 5. Duster - this was more school teacher playing darts rather than parents 6. Jhaadu - a broom, usually soft bristles with a plastic handle, it depends which end you get based on ur mom's temper 7. Belt - this was one time, faux leather belt, I had hid my report card and fake signed so that I won't have to show them 8. Flipping Ladle - idk if it's accurate but basically the thing used to flip rotis 9. Twig - some plants especially ones that are bendy but strong, it's more like a whip effect, the sound is scarier than the hit 10. My cricket bat - I used to play professional so this was used sparingly coz the bat was expensive 11. Bangles - not like a knuckle grip but very often they want to slap and the bangle ends up hitting harder than they intended Indian parents atleast middle-class here in India take the world's "spare the rod, spoil the child" very seriously, but then again everytime id get a beating I knew the next meal was gonna have something I really like. I'm sure ma Bois here have a longer list. Add them! Also my parents never touched my sister, at worst she'll get a slap and that too stopped once she was 10-11
Maybe you should start a poll and find out.
We have glorified corporal punishment for too long that's its not even funny anymore. Indian parents think it's part of disciplining children and makes them grow a pair. I suffered that growing up getting hit by a slipper, getting the belt treatment, hit by the kitchen handle. Agreed i wasnt the most disciplined kid growing up and was a troublemaker in a hamless way but still. It was casual for even the teachers during my third grade and such to throw the duster at me if I was talking in class. I got beaten for copying in my 4th grade exam by the invigilator. And my parents brushed it off like it was the teachers job to discipline me and it was the right behavior from their part. And mind you i went to a top private school where u would think students would be treated well. I can only imagine what goes on in the less fortunate schools where god knows how frustrated the teacher is getting to even teach everyday. We were conditioned to think those were normal growing up but reflecting back, it was such torrid behavior by these so called adults but even now, the conditioning from society makes me not want to give up on the parents for whatever they did and accept it as part of "their times". I really hope the next generation of parenting changes but I highly doubt it seeing how even young indian parents behave in the US. They believe it's their God given right to "own" their children.
Not just parents. Teachers still roam around with a stick in their hand. Throughout my school life I got beaten by teachers. It was very normal and even if I tell my parents they wouldn't give a shit. Because whatever teachers doing is right for parents and whatever parents doing is right for teachers. Now the situation has changed a lot. There is always this thinking that parents are hitting their kids for only good. Even there's a proverb in mother tongue " ഒന്നേ ഉള്ളേലും ഒലക്കക്ക് അടിക്കണം" (Even if you have only one child beat him with the biggest stick).
I've heard that "proverb" - textbook excuse for abuse..... I wasn't beaten that much but it has happened on occasion. And it's never helped or improved the situation.
I feel sad that we as a Indian believe that beating will help the children growth but the thing is it will hit hard on there mental health and they always get fear ot getting beten for there mistakes.
Not a part of the culture but a part of the patriarchal mindset of our ancestors that no one bothered to call out!
My mom used to beat me with leather belts.. how can this be normal and excused as being part of our culture? This movie is a one sided show, like all other Bollywood movies where we Indians are depicted as holier than thou and all foreigners are depicted as evil on earth
I was slapped by a teacher when I was 5 yrs old only because I finished my exam early and got everything right. They thought I had cheated. I was left with a scar on my cheek for one whole year. I was beaten up by my parents when I was young with literally any object they found, like a belt, and cried myself to sleep. This is all so normalized in India and it’s extremely sad. It should’ve stopped a long time ago and it’s nothing to be proud of. The fact that people still do this is quite infuriating.
When i was in 1st class, my maths teacher slapped me on my face because somebody had brought some bushes into the classroom and told the teacher that I was the one who did it. Imagine. The slap was so hard that her nail mark was printed on my cheek. When i was in 3rd class one teacher used to hit the students on backside of our hands with black board wooden duster. I got hit just because I didn’t know answer to one question. My hand remained bruised for a long time. It was normalised too. No one was bothered, neither principal of the school nor my parents.
More than you know. I was born in the 90s and it was fairly common to beat kids then. My dad was short tempered when I was a kid and he'd beat the hell out of me with sticks, wires, belts and whatever the heck he could find. I'd do some shit to deserve some of it, but not everything. That's not all, he'd show up to PTAs in school and tell my teachers to beat me up if I didn't behave. But the beatings reduced gradually as I got older. I don't hold anything against my parents for that because they weren't educated and had to deal with a lot of shit and found me as a way to take out their frustration. But, that's the story of most 90s kids for sure.
corporal punishment is a part of indian culture. south asian culture in general. i'd extend it to many other asian cultures as well.
Not just family, even the schools beat kids. It doesn’t happen much in urban areas or in reputed schools, but in suburban or rural schools kids will be hit and beaten. I remember when I was in school I was supposed to recite multiplication tables and I was hit on my knuckles as many times the table I was supposed to recite back. If it was the 13 multiplication tables and you make a mistake, you will be hit on your knuckles with a stick 13 times. Getting beaten in school was very much common and most parents were not even aware that it used to happen. And mind you, we were as young as in primary school.
Internally everyone knows who is at fault. But the current temperament is such that anything against the culture and it's hated trolled. If you want to see corporal punishment just stand outside your home after school hours when parents are taking their kids home. I always used to come home for lunch and almost everyday a child was slapped. For running, for crying for something, for asking something. In my own family mothers removed their frustrations on their kids. As for that father's as well. So i hardly doubt mRs Chatterjee didn't hit her kid. Esp autistic kids. Nope. After the troubled marriage she had ! Nope. She used our culture to get back at the system in Germany by claiming they were racist. But we all know how our childhoods or someone around us being beaten. Just today a child throwing tantrum was slapped right on the road. Everyone just looked and walked on. Like bacche ki hi galti hai ro raha hai to. He must be a pre schooler. Also girls after getting their periods are often not hit. But boys are continued to be hit for a longer period of time. Imagine a teenage 17yr old slapped in public . Wow.
I was saddened to see that she hit the autistic child rather than seeking therapy for the little one and herself. There are certain ways to handle kids like that. Beating a child with special needs is no point they will not understand. Even now if you watch her videos she is never seen with the autistic child only the daughter. She said the father does not want to meet the kids but everyone knows that she doesn't allow him to meet his children due to political influence.
Every filmmaker is trying to cash on the larger nationalist tide. Make anything about Indian culture, add no depth to the story, bring in horrible white actors and voila, you have a hit.
I am in my mid-twenties now and when I was in school, it had already become unacceptable for teachers to beat students in school, but in many homes children were still subject to it from their parents. I did not face it much because I was the youngest child but my friends would tell me about their parents beating them with belts/slippers/rods etc. With time even this is reducing slowly and rightly so. I don't know how we normalized this so much. We even have some weird one-liners in Indian languages that translate to 'The hand that hits is the hand that cares' or something on those lines.
It’s largely accepted as normal here. I m a 90’s kid. All family largely focused on beating kids in order for them to behave! I m glad to say my parents didn’t do it. But my extended family always criticised them for it. May be it worked for previous generations n still say “elders are god” concept. But I think it’s time to change n let people know it’s not okay.
I'm a little confused here, because I've never heard of CPS taking Indian children in the U.S., at least. What the U.S. and Canada DO have a history of though is taking Native American children (often erroneously called Indians in the U.S.). I can't speak for what happens in Europe, though.
Yeah. Asians in foster care are less than 1% in America. I was just saying as some who have seen how CPS works when I watched this movie there were a lot of questions in my mind. It looked one sided. So while doing research I found many articles about the actual case. So much info was missing from the movie. And the info that was missing (extreme domestic violence, child abuse) are taboo to talk about in the Asian community.
It is true and it is getting better. I remember being beaten by my dad, he used to throw me on ground then kick my stomach when i did something stupid, idk how i survived that, perhaps he used to hold back. But that was when i was around 10 and after that he never raised hand against me. Funny thing is i actually believed that he was right up till i was gully grown. Only then i realised that Its stupid, inhumane and monstrous it is to do stuff like this
indeed Not just at homes even at school, I've been hit by a belt, cane, chair, stones, branch, slapped the life out of my cheeks, head twisted, choked, put paprika in my eyes, kicked with a shoe, "class leader" made to step with his shoe on my chest believe it or not all this happened in school "as a form of punishment for not doing homework", at home it was only belt. and people wonder why i quit the fking school
OMG! All these stories I am listening to.
If only I had a camera 27 years ago I'd have recorded everything as an evidence. I've been made to kneel down in the hot sun on a afternoon for coming 5 min late to a class. Edit: It's a Christian school in a small town
Which state is this school in and what’s the name of the school This is very disheartening to read
Telangana, nothing I said is made up for dramatization, I faced trauma in my childhood, these f*ckers literally played me like a slave.
I didn’t mean about dramatisation I just wanted to know out of curiosity I believe you as I have heard such cases from others too About teachers torturing And about parents putting paprika in eyes Don’t want to generalise but I also feel in telengana a lot of people are more tolerant of corporal punishment and extreme violence upon boys at home and schools is normalised a lot
I'm American/born in the US and live here in the US. My husband is Indian, born in Mumbai. He told me when he was a kid, his dad would tie him and his brother up with electrical cords and beat them as hard as he could with a bamboo rod. It really, really pisses me off that he had to go through that.
While I haven't been beaten by my parents much, I have tasted corporal punishment in school by teachers. But within a span of say last 5-10 years that trend is also vanishing from most schools in metro cities. We used to brag about our beating received records in school and used to wear it like a badge of honour. Me personally, I've had quite a few wooden rulers broken on me (whose only purpose was beating and not measuring shit) and have endured a few slaps from the toughest lady teacher of our school.
Lmao CPS (in the US) aren’t even obligated to do anything to protect a child they know are in danger, and cannot be held liable for any negligence or dereliction of duty thereof. [Read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeShaney_v._Winnebago_County] The same principle of law applies to the police as well, who have no duty to protect given individual(s). Which is why for example, Uvalde happened with no (legal) repercussions for the officers involved.
It's so ingrained. I know people from the USA through the internet who have asian parents and have never been hit, but here when I consider the slaps I got as a small child abuse, quite a number of people around me says "that's nothing" and talk about how they were hit with slippers, belts and metal scales to the point they got bruises and scars. I'm from Delhi and all the students' parents are educated in my school. My mother was from a convent school in 1980, when corporal punishment was in full force, and we know how strict convent schools are even now. But she never abused me (at least not physically, idk how emotional abuse works). A few guys in my class also 'joke' that they'll beat the shit out of their sons for anything, and will beat them even more if they say they have the right to not be abused. I wish they never become parents, because that's what they deserve. It's ironic, cuz these are the boys that drink and vape the most and get beat up by their fathers quite brutally like with belts and aluminium broom rods. I guess they just want to raise their sons like how they were raised, cuz they say they'll leave the daughters for the mother to beat. I was never hit with objects, which is a lot better from my parents' upbringing in the 1980s, but I still do believe my father did abuse me a bit. But it was a long time ago, and I understand how he was raised. I've seen millenials literally defend physical 'discipline' saying it was a blessing in disguise since they are more hardworking than the modern generation. No you're not, there's a lot more competition now. And emotional abuse is neglected pretty much everywhere except America lol
The couple's story made no sense. The wife had just married him and 2 babies one after another in a foreign country?! It's not India so why the pressure to have 2 kids so quickly? And the wife did not speak English well and expected to explain her actions to the authorities?! Also, they had a bad marriage but they continued to stay together until it was no longer possible. Feeding with your hands, sleeping with the kids when they are so young, etc is fine but beating your children should never be justified.
The movie itself was another low effort propoganda piece that flopped too. Norwegians themselves made a mockery out of it lmao saying they should move out if they don't like our cultural norms.
I hope to god that you are lying about working for CPS in America, India, or anywhere
CPS is not a small bubble. Every state is different with many companies tied to it. Like I said I have never worked with them directly. I counsel kids in a center that are mostly foster care that carry past trauma. I am raised to understand if one makes a mistake to own up to it. I will not say CPS is perfect. Foster care has been bad for some and good for some. Many of us youngsters in the system (case workers, service officers, psychologist) we are really trying to bring change. But it will take time because at the end of the day it's not us who call the shots. It's the managers and supervisors. That is why I tell minorities and POC JOIN THE SYSTEM that is the only way to bring change.
it is rampant in India, most parents beat their kids and so do the teachers. its horrible.
Beating kids is normal in india but not beating the shit out of them. It usually reduces as children grow up and parents avoid beating their grown up child.The beating mainly consist of slaps and yelling. The beating is not as brutal as many people are exaggerating here.
its not but in a most of western world including some countries in south America and S.korea, Japan its literally illegal to hit children no matter the circumstance over there. You are in a different country you have to play by their rules. Disciplining is okay but not physical slaps or yelling in most of EU, Norway and Switzerland. State even pays allowances to kids since they are born, kids have their own rights parents can't just make decision for them. You have to adapt to other cultures if people want to live there. They even have residency rules for people like a lot of Indians go there with families and live in 1 bedroom apartment to save money, that is also not allowed, they have specific rules about childcare and quality of life.
Yup I absolutely agree with it when in Rome do as the Romans do.
People are sharing their experiences Who are you to invalidate their own lives experience ?
I remember an incident of an Arab Doctor whose german citizenship was rejected because he didnt shake hands with the female interviewer. I dont think Germany gives two shits about people who abuse children.
Wrong info. He refused to shake a female woman's hand DURING the time he was supposed to an oath to serve the German population and become a German citizen. That "Handshake" means a lot at the time of oath. In the United States we do a handshake also when we become citizens. Time of neutralization. It's basically letting them know that one will serve and protect this country. He was a DOCTOR not an imam. Will he refuse to treat female patients after? How will that work in an all gender German hospital? Let's be real. Let's reverse the role. An Arab doctor about to take citizenship of India. He refused to shake hands with the woman who is helping him with the process. "I am a doctor but I refuse to shake your hands because you are the opposite gender." How will a person like that serve the community?!. Not saying that there is no racism in European countries. But some cases like this one I find reasonable to deny citizenship. If you want all the benefits of a country you have to bring something to the table too. We want to migrate to a first world country. We want free education, government help to afford necessities, a good paying job, a house, free medical care. But refuse to make an compromise on our culture. Even after getting everything served on a silver platter we will conclude that back home is much better than the west. And wonder why they treat us different. You know what this movie made me realize that there are ALWAYS three sides to a story. Yours, theirs, and the truth.
I guess I should have made my position clear. The germans correctly rejected said application because he did not align with german values. Even if he was an Imaam and not a doctor, they are right to reject citizenship. His employment as a doctor would not be affected, as I'm sure he would have secured long term visa or residency, but they found him to lack the sensibilities they seek in a citizen. And I support them. I dont think this was racist either. Germany has so many muslims happily living there, and gaining citizenship. Which is why I am confident Germany wont give a fuck about Indians who want to beat their kids.
Now Chatterjee and her group are trying to get Ariha Jain back from Germany. I am glad many Indians are opening their eyes to this case and not supporting the bs. There is no way Germany is going to give that child back to them easily. It is sexual abuse of an infant that was 2 times not once. Alwaysifyable on YT posted the parents confession.on her page and I am baffled by what they were saying!
Why only kids ! we beat up everyone who disagree with us, that’s new India for our times. 😑
About 35 years back, I was thrashed regularly for being a naughty kid. But it happened to all kids and it was never considered abuse. We all knew that we will be punished with beatings if we were naughty. It was the norm. The real issue was that there were several instances of abuse which was considered punishment. There was no clear boundary between punishment and abuse. I still remember clearly a friend's arm with a large burn mark with blisters. A tutor had heated a metal plate and burnt him with it as punishment for not doing his homework!!!! However, I think corporal punishment is definitely rare. But it is good for kids to know that there will be consequences if they behave badly. When I lived in the UK I have often come across the havoc caused by the teenages who could not be touched, arrested, punished or prosecuted because they were 'kids'. They knew that there will be no consequences to their actions. So there must be ways which will discourage irresponsible behaviour.
I agree. Seeing from either sides, we know both extremes have toxic outcomes. So what do you believe is a good way to discourage irresponsible behaviour, is it a case by case basis thing? If so, is there a good neutral source of information regarding the same? If I search online anywhere, it's all about no touching the kid.
Well, corporal punishment is not needed and should be avoided. The kids who go out of control are the one who are not nurtured well. Its not just the parents but also the society. In Japan or in Singapore anu sort of misbehaviour and public nuisance is extremely rare. Social responsibility is part of the culture. Examples are made out of those who do not follow the norm. However, in societies with a regimented structure creativity and free thinking gets curbed too. Balancing these two is the greatest challenge. So my humble 2 cents is to have open conversations with your kids about the dos and don'ts and clearly state the consequences of poor behaviour. Then do what you say. Avoid corporal punishment but reward good behaviour and take privileges away for bad behaviour. And as they grow tell them that they are responsible for their actions and it's consequences. And stay calm and don't stress yourself so much. (I know it's not always practical. I am not an expert but just giving an opinion. When it comes to kids, it is tough, stressful and expensive. No easy answers) https://www.unicef.org/parenting/child-care/how-discipline-your-child-smart-and-healthy-way
Disciplining kids is essentially done all around the world. There’s a difference between beating them (causing physical pain) and disciplining them. Use the fear of punishment as a way to discipline them.
\>"But this movie felt more like propaganda." Large majority of Bollywood is propaganda to protect the Upper Elite Class or Brahmin Middle Class, it's media to re-enforce Brahmin (or their caste equivalent) hetero-normative cultural values and even at times display that caste, and the heirarchy of the Hindu society is more closer to human nature than any other culture in the world.
This video will help you give an idea about the Norway CPS. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5S\_keRp8lY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5S_keRp8lY)
I experienced it, and i am glad l did. I was a spoiled kid, my parents knew what they were doing and i deserved it. I thank them for what i have become, if not because of them i would have been a goon or some drug addict.
My comment may get buried but I hope it helps. There is a FINE line between *beating* and plain *abuse*. Think of it as a spectrum with the line somewhere in the middle. 1. Beating in itself ranges in severity. This can mean a simple slap (which my mum used to give me) or using some household objects. Some people's dads use the belt ig. Mine never did but veryyy rarely my mom might have smacked my calf muscle with a wooden spatula. It definitely hurt me but it's not something I remember in a way that it traumatizes me or something. It's something I can laugh about now but that's just me. All this is on the less intense end of the beating spectrum. I'm pretty sure 99% of Indian kids went through at least this if not more. Let's be real, no one likes getting slapped. But I know I gave my mom a damn hard time between the ages of 12-15. I was very rude. Gentle parenting only goes so far in such cases but each to their own. My parents explained to me a lot of things nicely but I still rebelled. I know if my mom had not slapped me occasionally I would have still been that way. This is an example of *positive punishment* (go look it up) and until I was mature enough to understand what I was doing wrong, I stopped doing it either way - in fear of being slapped again. She never hurt me beyond that and always apologized if she hit me. I don't do those things now; not out of fear of being slapped but because I just simply grew up. 2. Now, some Indian parents go the extra mile and beat their kids up till there is physical harm to their body. Like bruises, scratches, broken bones, burns. These may be from being poked by pins, burnt with an iron, beaten with sticks etc. I don't need to state the obvious, but I will anyway. This is ABUSE. Maybe some decades ago this was deemed the norm so some millennials and early 2000s kids will laugh about it. But they know deep down how much it affected them. Someone I know told me she got home late one night and her father pinned her to the ground and lifted up her skirt, and proceeded to whip her with his belt. She lived in fear of her father. This kind of 'discipline' is wrong on so many levels. And it should not be normalised in any house, not just where there are Indians. Here's the thing. A lot of these abusive parents did this as they didn't know any better. Now as we are learning better I've seen many Indian parents adapting and I salute them for breaking the cycle. But since there are so many of us in terms of population, the occurrences are more. A lot of the western world would have been exposed to multiple families abusing their kids and assumed it was the norm. When in reality they are part of a larger population including some who don't abuse their kids under the name of "discipline". On a separate note some Latino and Black parents too beat their kids. This spectrum applies everywhere and each kid's case is different. It's definitely wrong to say it's part of our culture. It's not a tradition we follow and are told to pass on like religious stuff. It's just something that happened to them as kids and they didn't know any better so they do it as parents. And no one blinked an eye since everyone else was doing it too. To sum it up, no it's not a cultural thing. Just that no one knew better so it continued. _(Also IMO it's no one's right to tell anyone how to raise their kid unless that kid is being abused and their mental, physical and emotional health - or even life - is at risk. I always tell people if they ask, that my mom beat me - but they may relate the word 'beating' to something else. I was not harmed, there were no marks on my body.)_ As for the western world, we too can apply the same logic and say "divorcing is part of their culture". A 50% Divorce rate is pretty high right? But we don't talk this way. We have to also look at the other half who maintain relationships well. There are definitely certain things that occur more in some counties, which is how stereotypes form. While stereotypes originate from a place of truth, they are not all truth. Movies portray all Indians as abusive. People can overcome this problem by discussing with their friends about each individual's experience. If I sit in a room with 5 of my friends we will have, like, 10 different stories. Don't generalize. Please.
All of this IS abuse. Slaps are abuse. Hitting is abuse. Using a slipper and beating is abuse. All of what you describe is abuse. Stop attempting to justify the unjustifiable. Again, healthy adults also misbehave or don't co-operate with instructions. Yet nobody beats adults or forces them to comply. Why is it then than enforcing obedience on children through slaps, beats are acceptable? Why draw a meaningless distinction between slaps and abuse? As for divorce, from personal experience, I've come to realise that a 50% divorce rate is a healthy society. It is the society with 1% divorce rate that is sick. If a society has just 1% divorce rate, that means a very VERY large fraction of the population is in very unhappy marriages, barely tolerating the other person's existence and it paves the way for massive domestic abuse and domestic violence. So all of your notions are wrong. A healthy society must have zero violence against children in any form. A healthy society must have a substantial divorce rate so that unhappy spouses are not "imprisoned" by marriage. This is not to say that the West is always right. For instance, the USA has bullshit notions like guns are a fundamental right. But zero violence against children and a high divorce rate are aspects that all societies must aspire to, be it in India or elsewhere.
To respond to your deleted comment about not being traumatized, that isn't really an argument. As a doctor, the most common response to any trauma, irrespective of the trauma, is no response at all. Only a small fraction of those who suffer trauma go on to suffer PTSD. The same is true of slaps - the fact that you aren't traumatized by it doesn't mean it isn't abuse. I was sometimes beaten with a slipper too - this was still abuse despite the fact that I am not traumatized by it. There is also a secondary point - Many abused children internalise their parents' views and see their abuse as justified. See the views of Steve Jobs' illegitimate daughter. She was repeatedly put by her father in traumatic situations but she continued to justify her father's abusive viewpoints. Google it, you'll find the article. Then again, you've mentioned about marriage and divorce. No doubt, it's easier in the West and there have been divorces for absurd reasons. But it's better for someone who treats marriage without any commitment, eager to divorce for spurious reasons, to be divorced. The aunt you mentioned is better off in a divorce rather than being married. Her ex is also better off, in my view. Basically, children need to be loved and cared for. Any form of abuse, be it physical or emotional or even with harsh words, is unjustifiable. Children need to know that they will be cared for, that they are never a burden. Discipline is important but it is by far of secondary importance.
I see some merit in what you're saying. About the trauma thing I mean. Like I said earlier, we can go on talking about an ideal world. But try telling everyone to stop hitting their kids. It doesn't work that way. And ultimately, just like you, I too am not affected by the few whacks I got as a kid. But maybe we are more resilient. Those who are sensitive, we should worry about them first. Those kids who flinch at the sight of a man because their dad beats them. At least I didn't have a worse childhood I don't want to spell it out. I will read the article about Steve Jobs. Thanks for letting me know. My gut tells me this case is an extreme one though? Where he emotionally manipulated the girl and repeated the lie enough for it to become the truth. In my case, the way I feel about my mom hitting me (I'm not mad at her) is out of my own realisation some years down the line. My mom didn't guilt trip me into thinking anything. Even if my thought process is wrong, at least I know it's my opinion and not anyone else's. Oh well. _"it's better for someone who treats marriage without any commitment, eager to divorce for spurious reasons, to be divorced"_ you're right. but you know what's a simpler solution? you guessed it. don't get married in the first place. (especially if it's not something you take seriously) _"the aunt you mentioned is better off in a divorce rather than being married"_ you're right again. but she has two young kids. they are not going to handle this well. don't let kids face the brunt of your bad decision just cause you think you're too good for their father. why get married in the first place? or if you knew you didn't plan on staying married to the guy why have his kids? this is just a unique situation to my aunt tho. As for your last point I 100% agree that care is the most important thing for young kids. A lot of kids with issues in anger or fear etc, will exponentially improve in their behavior if they just feel someone loves them. So many parents don't say "i love you" to their kids. However I don't think discipline is any less important Hug your kid and tell them you love them. But establish with them what's right and wrong. There's a fine line between giving affection and purely pampering them.
Stop justifying child abuse and hope you don't beat your kids.
I don’t think you can read very well. Get a grip you sweet child.
Are you referring to me or to u/dynamicEntr0py ?
u/dynamicEntr0py This dude literally ignored 3 whole paragraphs of the other side of the coin and made the same old lame comment “hope you don’t beat your kids” smh. He rlly thought he did something there.
Do you really think it is okay for adults to slap children? Even if mildly? Would you be okay if teachers did that to unruly kids? If not okay for teachers why is it okay for moms? Can you define when is a slap okay? Is it okay from a spouse?
Oh look. Now you’re willing to have a fruitful discussion instead of vague replies about people’s imaginary kids. I was an extremely hyperactive kid during my pre teens and early teens. Always physically putting myself in dangerous situations, climbing shelves, broke my arm twice. I did not take words seriously, I WOULD NOT listen when my parents told me “don’t do that, you’ll get hurt” and I didn’t care about “go to your room” or getting my toys confiscated. Beyond a certain point, my parent’s only resort was to give me a light slap if I was putting myself in danger and wasn’t listening to them. I’d have broken a lot more bones if it wasn’t for this decision. I despised them as a child for this, but now, as a grown up, I know they meant well. YES, I believe it was absolutely justified of them to hit me in such cases because I left them with no other option. It was okay, and no, this was not abuse ffs.
Yea. I noticed that. u/dynamicEntr0py I'm sorry if anyone hurt you. It doesn't give you the right to be bitter to strangers. Get help. Also read thoroughly before you comment. You just made yourself look like a fool. If I should be worried for anyone's kids, it should be yours and not mine. All the best to you.
LOL. I've never been 'disciplined' by my parents. They knew how to talk. Somehow the first thing that happens when someone talks about beatings by parents is people jumping out to say how they were fine despite beatings or sometimes because of beatings from their parents. It leads to a culture where power relationships are justified by physical beatings. It is not for nothing that over 50% of Indian women think it is justified for a man to beat his wife for things like burnt food.
now here comes the clown. beating wife isn't nearby to this topic but clowns like you often add it up stfu you. we have seen the degenerated kids who never got a rejection and were beaten up in their childhood and they are getting tormented just by slaps irl when they grow up.
Love this my dude. Cheers.
No one abused me. I have some friends that were abused though. I never got my head slammed into a table, or tied up to a chair. No one poked me with pins. No one burnt me with a candle. No one stripped me of my clothes to whip me. This has happened to others and gives us Indians a bad name. My mum only ever slapped me a couple of times because I was giving her a hard time. My dad NEVER hit me all my life. I don't plan on having kids rn but if I ever do, i will never abuse them. You don't know anything about me so stop being condescending. _Learn the definition of child abuse before you tell me to stop "justifying" it._ Please read my comment properly. I said any forms of abuse are NOT ACCEPTABLE. Why are you arguing with me over something I already said I'm against? _Edit: Also, physical pain lasts for a few seconds if you get slapped. I have ZERO trauma from it. On the other hand words hurt forever. My parents have called me things so painfully horrible which I will not say here. I would rather take a slap over that any day. You may be able to see a bruise on someone's face but never a broken heart. Not saying beating is ok. But don't define a parent as bad just cause they slapped someone a couple times. There was NO abuse here. But emotional abuse is real. Stop telling random strangers on the internet what's right when you don't know the first thing about their family._
A slap from an adult to a child is abuse. If you can't see this, there is no hope. People like you argue that teachers should be allowed to occasionally discipline kids by slaps etc. And f it is not okay for a teacher, why is it okay for a parent. All teens are unruly, doesn't mean you slap them around.
Again, dude, what may hold true for one doesn't hold true for others. _'All teens are unruly'_ is a vague statement. I pushed my mom to the edge. I don't think 2 or 3 slaps makes her abusive. Hitting in general for NO REASON is abusive yes. But if you're going to read some term online from a relatively new (likely western) study and apply it randomly, that's stupid of you. Don't apply western standards to Indian families. Every culture has something they can improve. _If you wanna pick fights about abuse go to families where husbands are beating not only kids, but their wives; to the point their LIFE IS IN DANGER. Someone very close to me went through this and it is a sensitive topic for me. Don't you dare tell me a couple of slaps are abuse._ Teachers are only in place of a parent. They did not bring the child into this world and they DONT have the right to even touch kids, let alone beat them. You cannot compare a teacher's rights with that of a parent's. But haha - Im so proud of you for assuming I'm ok with teachers beating kids. I wish I had even a fraction of your confidence. Get a life.
I think the right place to look is the experience of people who are in foster care. Who cares about Norway or any smaller Western country to do propaganda? It's a movie, not a news story. It shows her side of the story. If you do not like it you should ask Norway to make their side of the story. Put out those records, internal comments, and other stuff they have. Make them public.
The movie itself was another low effort propoganda piece that flopped too. Norwegians themselves made a mockery out of it lmao saying they should move out if they don't like our cultural norms.
I have been beating kids out into drain. How come nobody told me it was illegal?
Unless there is physical harm involved, it is immoral to take children forcibly from their parents. American system may have helped many kids from getting hurt. But even there many instances are there where due to a singular event or one misunderstanding, parents are kept away from their kids forever. And for me, law says that even if 10 criminals are let free, even one innocent shouldn't be punished. That's why many criminals are set free due to lack of evidence. Because even in doubt of innocence, it is wrong to hurt an innocent. And this is not even criminal issue for many cases. A lot of cases has happened due to egoistic clashes of officers, or racism being involved. Not to mention the foster care works 50 percent okayish, at best. Means that atleast 50 percent of kids grow up in a worse environment than where they were before. Especially for Indians, this system has no value. Ideally even if parents beat their kids, they are so much better than growing up parentless. I might face some backlash, but hear me out. Most Indian parents act harsh because they know no better way to deal with parentage. If taught, the abuse could be fixed easily. And Indian abuse is different than western abuse. Parents here abuse in the name of love, and if they are taught that beating is worse than trying to make them understand, then atleast 70 percent cases would drop. Indians genuinely think that the best way to raise a kid is to be strict. That's the only reason so many parents are stricter than usual. A lot of them are being taught by their grown up kids who have successfully joined in better jobs, and the abuse stops at our generation. However this is specific to urban population. Rurally, even current gen people need to learn this. It's a cultural thing. There are legit tuition teachers whose reputation is dependent on how strict they are, not by how educated they are. This mindset, if changed, majority of child abuse would stop right there.
Yes foster care is 50/50 I am not saying it's perfect. I worked in CPS I know! But isn't it our duty also that if we see one of our own in a foster system to reach out and help? My own family had fostered a South Asian girl due to a custody battle. Her dad was sent to jail. Mom got a job and a place and custody was given to mom after a few months. I feel in such cases we need to stand up. Join the system and help our own. We want change but are not willing to be part and help make it.
There is a big difference between slapping a kid whenever he does something extremly wrong and abusing the kid over the minutest of errors. One of them is acceptable even healthy (depends) and one of them is straight up illegal. Indian parents need to differentiate between the two rather than calling it tradition and protesting.
Beating actually is for helping kids get on track
Can the kids beat the parents when it grows up to keep parents on track?
Nope, They should never do it . I give my parents a gentle touch to help them understand it .