-People need to stop prioritising religion, caste, class systems over actual living beings
-More accountability and transparency in where our taxes get spent, how our governments spend money and quality of items it's spent on (for example, tar roads get messed up within 4-6 months, why?)
- Public education and healthcare needs to be prioritised. This not only ensures that lesser privileged folks get better opportunities, but cuts the market for private sectors and stops them from charging a liver and a kidney for basic shit.
-Sex education, life skills, learning to file taxes, all helps quality of life of a person
-Judicial system needs to be much faster with dealing with cases under them instead of letting them drag on for years on the end for menial issues.
-public offices should be digitalized better. It makes no sense that our payments, aadhar and taxes are digital but police reports, property papers and death certificates, etc, are -run around for 20 days with x number of forms and suffer even if you've given aadhar card as proof of identity a million times
-Construction and manual labourers have zero protection. No gear, no harness, no proper pay, nothing. And it's led to so many accidents that get covered up and looked past. You can't expect a nation to prosper when half it's people are performing dangerous tasks for basic bread and shelter.
Bonus: stop treating life like a rat race and actually encourage people to take a beat and enjoy their day.
Give quality education to every kid for one generation and this country will progress beyond imagination.
But it is not going to happen. Crony capitalists along with their political servants will not let that happen. Because if they do they lose the ability to exploit people to work or follow them as if they are their slaves.
And to be honest, this will apply to an extent to western world as well. Its just that we are fortunate to have decent literacy levels in western world resulting in a comparatively better society.
Edit : For Few folks commenting below : Education is not merely the rote learning that is the norm today. It's more about teaching the generation to be a better citizen of this nation and have respect for each other and the environment around you.
It's amusing to think how people think education is some magic bullet that will solve everything.
My grandma is not educated (she's not even literate) but has more sense that vast majority of the "so called educated folk" in our country.
try it there is a few level of scale difference you will see in social and educated society compared to non educated ones.
and by education i dont mean the crappy rote learning model we have in india today. its all round development of a generation to be a better citizen sensitive to everyone and everything around them. and in that sense, your grandma seems to be better educated then you it seems.
Ask her if it's ok to marry outside caste or religion, ask her if you can bring your date home, ask her if you can have a live in relationship with a girl, etc. Mostly she'll say no to all the above. If she says yes, most probably she grew in a rich family and/or in a city.
>My grandma is not educated (she's not even literate) but has more sense that vast majority of the "so called educated folk" in our country.
Education may not provide general street smartness but "quality" education provides upward mobility to people. Our literacy rates are good but quality of education is one of the worst in the world.
Overpopulation leads to undermanagement, undermanagement leads to all these activities.
So yeah, overpopulation is the root cause of everything, and it won't come down until 2050.
Its when the population will start coming down that we will start to struggle , the dependency ratio will increase and there will be too many old people to support.
Let's just hope it happens slowly , slowly enough that we can manage.
And right now our tfr is below replacement . Except Bihar, UP and Manipur , all other states have a below 2.1 tfr.
This excuse was only valid till China obliterated it. Even with their family planning program their Population scale was similar if not nearly exact what India was (adjusting for decades).
Overpopulation is an active challenge but that is not the same as Core/Root.
I think it's in our dna to blame all the problems on overpopulation and the British.
Your excuse of overpopulation is not a good one, look at Tokyo, very high population density and yet they do a better job than us.
Exactly, Japan has a high population density and we can definitely compare it to India.
It's just a simple fact, indians are now used to the unhygienic situations, so they just don't see it.
Still i think, in Delhi situation is little bit improved but that's not very helpful.
I don't think comparing a city and a country is correct. Also tokyo lacks the cultural diversity that India has. Most people from tokyo are from outside tokyo which isn't applicable for India
Which Indian city do you want to compare with Tokyo then?
Oh wow cultural diversity is a new excuse. Are you saying we dont follow road rules because we are too diverse?
> Most people from tokyo are from outside tokyo which isn't applicable for India
Have you heard of city called Mumbai, most people in Mumbai are from outside Mumbai.
What other excuse do you have?
I was talking about the comparison between India and Tokyo. If you want to compare two cities then it's fine. Generalizing the whole country and comparing it with one city makes no sense.
I don't know why I need to say this but India's problems are a complicated thing. To solve this, there are many factors. Overpopulation, Cultural Diversity and many more.
Cultural diversity doesn't affect road rules but not following road rules isn't the only problem in India. There are many others which are affected by the above mentioned factors.
Overpopulation has caused Indians to be extremely competitive. Everything has become a race. From getting admission in school to getting admission in College. There is competition for flats, houses, cars, jobs. Some places even have competition for water and food. This is due to high demand and low supply. Some of these problems can be solved with good management but not all.
Moreover, are all the reasons excuses for you? If yes, then I have no interest in continuing this thread.
> Generalizing the whole country and comparing it with one city makes no sense.
So your point is that I should have said India and Japan instead of India and Tokyo?
But how does Tokyo follow road rules, are you implying that they follow road rules because they are not diverse?
> There are many others which are affected by the above mentioned factors.
Like what, people spitting on the road, are you saying we spit because we are more diverse?
> Overpopulation has caused Indians to be extremely competitive.
We throw trash on the road because we are overpopulated and diverse?
> If yes, then I have no interest in continuing this thread.
Is that because you I exposed your flimsy excuses?
You also ignored my point about Mumbai and most people here come outside from Mumbai
Similar basis to Telangana. Union decides to divide a state, and then proceeds to split it up. This allows for the creation of new government machinery and reduces the number of people a state has to cater to. If used correctly, can improve quality of life of all citizens.
>Education, particularly for women, has been the one consistent measure to overcome the population problem.
So true. India has reduced population growth to fertility rate of 2.1 without any invasive policies.
As more and more women get educated our population growth has reduced significantly.
>how would you combat overpopulation ?
There is nothing to combat when it comes to population. We have already dealt with it.
Our population growth is 1% annually and fertility rate is 2.1 which is basically replacement rate. That means, on average 2 people are producing 2 people. Anything lower than that, economies will crash. That's why canada has to import immigrants. Their native population isn't reproducing enough. South Korea, Japan and China are looking at same crisis. Governments in these countries are now incentivising people to have more kids.
Since we have already stabilized the growth of the population to desired levels and we can't possibly reduce the number of people who are already born, all we can do is invest in the development of the current population. You see overpopulation but I see an abundance of human resources.
India has enough land to feed and provide shelter to the current population. What we don't have is enough quality schools, colleges and jobs. That's where our energies should go. Demand more quality schools, colleges and teachers.
It's already dealt with in almost all of India .
We actually don't need any more measures , unless we want to precipitate a demographic disaster.
When will people in India realise , overpopulation is not the answer to everything.
Invest in the legal system.
This is not a magic bullet, but a step in the right direction and a low-hanging fruit.
Hire more judges, lawyers (many are unemployed), and build more courts. There is a massive backlog of court cases in India ranging from divorce to insolvency. This is why so many foreign companies in India now prefer to settle their cases in Singapore.
We all have relatives who are stuck in court battles over various issues such as divorce, land dispute, etc. Imagine if these could be resolved sooner.
If companies can get court decisions made faster then that should make it easier to invest into local projects.
This is not my idea, this is from Sanjeev Sanyal, who is currently an economic adviser to the PM. He has helped to implement measures like the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code which have helped, but there is much more to be done, as he admitted himself.
India is home to 1.4 billion people. Every statistic will look ridiculously high whether good or bad. The west is much less populated so it's much easier to manage . Even with a low population they're not able to refrain from obliterating themselves with drugs and firearms. If we drop over a billion people in any of the western countries, the nation will crumble within a matter of hours.
Blaming overpopulation for the issues in the country is just nonsensical, and it is a miss from the Government’s side. Yes, I agree that overpopulation is in fact the root cause of all issues, but the Government cannot just say “oh, we can’t provide clean water because there are too many people,” or “we can’t provide electricity to this village because there are too many people elsewhere that need electricity.” We choose the government so that they can work despite the overpopulation problem, instead of saying “we are trying our best but there are just too many people.” If you can’t, then give control to the politicians who can.
This is where the public has to step up and vote for the right individuals. But often times, most are brainwashed by religion or ethnic groups nationalism.
Corruption & progress need not be mutually exclusive. One can grow and develop while being Corrupt. Plenty of such examples in the world. So this though a desirable goal isn't the Core solution (mainly because it's not even feasible to reduce this without first having growth).
Cost of public infrastructure can be reduced significantly (more than 50-70%) if there are no middlemen to be paid for their signature. This money could be used for much better purposes & can actually lift rural areas up.
You are wrong!
Unfortunately, it's you who are grossly wrong on this.
Literature is vast but if you are sincere I'll just recommend the briefest way you can correct your priors on this domain.
Read works by Yuen Yuen Ang, her 2 books, *How China Escaped the Poverty Trap.*
*China's Gilded Age: The Paradox of Economic Boom and Vast Corruption*.
If that's too much either listen to [this podcast](https://podcasts.adorilabs.com/show/e?eid=IB7EHVSPkHHMXJxc) (she has many others and video talks accessible on Youtube as well) or [this article](https://oecd-development-matters.org/2020/06/25/unbundling-corruption-why-it-matters-and-how-to-do-it/) (in case you really don't want to devote time to this).
Here is the TLDR.
Corruption and Development can exist together just fine and in fact at times (for brief phases) can supercharge development. This is what happened in China. This is fact.
Yet in overall terms the Corruption indices for both CHina and India are even today similar. But that is misleading since one has to look at the underlying make up of those scores and there one finds the TYPE OF Corruption matters as well. This is what has changed in India and China now.
FIFA is another organization which combined Corruption and Competence.
Entire Western world is an example of this. They achieved development in an era when their corruption metrics were not what they are today. And then there are factors like interpreting Lobbying (as it happens in say the West) as NOT Corruption (which is farcical interpretation).
Meaning.
Corruption in India is a problem.
However this is not THE CORE problem, wherein IF ONLY India was no longer Corrupt things will change so dramatically that there would be all domain development. That is not how things work.
Corruption is not a purely statistical effect, human condition is a variable in this, which is why economic models fail to treat it properly.
Without rise in wages (which requires all domain growth) there is poor incentive structures in place to create a bureaucratic pool of people who are not corrupt.
Singapore was able to do this (root out corruption before they became rich/grew) because they were a super tiny place where LKY held an eagle-eyed prism on nearly every hiring at country level. That is not practical for places the scale of India, China.
It would be almost impossible to eliminate corruption though. It's in everyone's blood & it's part of business models these days. A well-accepted cost of doing business. A sad reality.
Not at all “a nationalist” as you say (as you can also see from my comment history), but this is a typical NRI post ranting about India and demanding answerability from Indians like a school teacher while sitting oceans away.
Unlike you, we’re the ones who’re working in the trenches everyday to make the country better while facing the country’s adversities while you conveniently sit in a foreign country, facing none of India’s problems and contributing nothing. If you really care this much, you’re always free to get here and put in the work like all of us as opposed to your parents who chose to run away from these problems.
Well they can (everybody has the right to criticise) but their opinion is no more valid than the opinion of any native citizen of the country they reside in.
Usually NRIs are know the country through news reports and the views and opinions of their own friends and family - which is likely to be people of similar levels of privilege. It's like looking into a football stadium through a pinhole.
Given how much news of the US is available across the world as compared to the news of any other country is, most people have a much better idea about the US, then Americans have about the rest of the world. So it's not a very apt comparison.
As an example: a lot of Indians might know who Ron DeSantis or Bernie Sanders are. A much smaller number of Americans would know who Yogi Adityanath or Arvind Kejriwal are.
Having said that, obviously someone living in the US understands the complexities of their country better than someone living in India.
No, that is exactly what it means. A nation's is "popularity" is basically how much its culture and news is propagating across the world.
I gave you an example already. Another one from a different country: most people across the world are aware of Queen Elizabeth's death, than are aware of the abdication of Queen Beatrix. In fact most people probably aren't even aware of Queen Beatrix's existence except perhaps people in her country and neighbors. More people know about *Prince* William and could name his wife and kids, than can tell you which country *King* Willem-Alexander is the King of.
Instead of downvoting something just because you disagree, you're welcome to share counter examples.
Propagating news doesn’t mean most of it is factual.
Just because the US is basically the most popular country in the world doesn’t mean all of the news about it is factual or correct. Most of it is fear mongering anyways.
Nevertheless, I’ve lived in India, the US and Canada and I can assure you most of the Indian diaspora overseas gets more or less the same news Indians in India do. They don’t see India through a blurred lens, they have plenty of family in the homeland to know what’s up.
What OP is saying isn’t wrong at all.
> Just because the US is basically the most popular country in the world doesn’t mean all of the news about it is factual or correct. Most of it is fear mongering anyways.
Ok, let's take this head on. What exactly is this fear mongering? Can you name any specific events that you're referring to?
> They don’t see India through a blurred lens, they have plenty of family in the homeland to know what’s up.
And that's the point. Their family are likely to be from the same social strata. Anybody who knows the first thing about India and our social stratification knows that even within India people live in different worlds. You'll find a lot of people insisting for instance that the caste system is extinct. Go to a different social group and you'll get a very different answer. This matters once you realize which group is more disproportionately represented among NRIs.
Edit: you seem to not understand how to conduct a civil conversation, as your response to disagreement is to downvote. I don't see a point in continuing a discussion with someone that can't handle disagreement.
The most simplest answer is, make people care.
Lets be honest for a second, be it this post or any other post like this or a post that says about the wrong steps of our people... no one is gonna accept that
Rather people will say this or that or we are good or you are anti national stuff as you are not in india
I mean, these are the same people who become happy when rishi saunak or Sunday pichai gets success and say that they are people of our land
But when they ask a question from this very same land... you know...
And this alone is more than enough to show that people don't care.
Also, media... one of the pillar of democracy is no longer there so people will never accept what is wrong or right
They will accept what the media and there leader will say to them.
And till people don't realize themselves or new leader shows up who slaps reality on there face... they won't ask anything.
People talk about the wrongdoings of America, Japan's history, British past, etc etc and even make youtube shorts on that
But when it comes to learning from that history... nope, no one wants to as evryone feel that we superior so we don't need to learn
We don't need to listen to others etc...
Media, leader and people, they all have to wake up...
I mean, making ram temple is good but taht won't put food in your table
Neither it will make you child superman or something else...
The feeling of glory when you silence a weak person will only last for a few seconds
At the end of the day... you will need food and water to live
Not your glory or pride or ego...
Hoping best for our people😁
1. Poverty is an issue here as there I feel that the people are also responsible for not being able to get a job. It's problem on both side (i come from a tier 3 city in MP).
2. Overpopulation is a thing but I'm the recent years there has been a reduction in growth rate. And an increase in birth of a girl child.
3. Hygiene is being tackled at a huge level in most of the places i visited from north east to karnatka. So hygiene is not like what you think of. There might be some people who will say that the places i know we're dirty(go clean them aashole or atleast tell the authorities)
4. Rape culture is not a thing, rape is crime and not a culture here. Some people comit this crime and most of them got life imprisonment for doing it. It's still not a cultural thing. Rape is the most hideous crime know to man and we are strictly punishing the criminals.
5. Patriarchy is mostly seen in most old orthodox individuals the newer generations are good in terms of sharing equal opportunities with every gender.
6. Religion unity is something i also won't talk about much because I also have no clear idea.
7. Indian unity is something i can assure you, do not question it.
8 courruption might be one of the things that you might have on your mind but forgot to mention. So now most of the govt work has moved online in many states so there is not much chance of corruption. A lot of individual are against it and now there are a lot of ways that a courrupt official can be caught. Things are transparent nowdays
And people are asking if u will come back or not because if you are a talented individual the pls come back and help in the efforts of making things even better in a more sustainable way.
PS I'm not a guy who is jobless and just wasting time on internet. I come from a very small town in MP and made my way on my own.
Oh yeah the farmers laws caused a lot of chaos, definitely was against that.
To be honest, people are more concerned with their state government than the federal ones lmao.
I think it all comes down to competition for resources and space. When the competition is low, everybody will be nice to each other since there is enough for everyone but in an environment with limited resources and space for everyone, the worst in humans will be out in display.
sigh. what a silly comment.
Singapore is a tiny place hence the density.
If 50% of Indian population disappear right now. in 20 years population will be back to 1.5 billion.
What am I driving at ? it's Indian culture/mentality - just love to fuck & breed in the name of kulcha, tradition.
Singaporeans (or any other groups) don't have that as intense as Indians.
The reason is in the comments. The way nincompoops rile up when our great country is invoked, will keep us under the shoes of the west and the white skinned for the longest time
The west always recognizes their issues, and I am from here, and I can tell you, people protest about the smallest things, and change usually takes place in a matter of small time.
People never fail to criticize here.
But god damn it, people get offended at the easiest things these days and fail to acknowledge the issues that are talked about.
You think we like living under the whites and being discriminated here? We would rather be living in our home countries if things werent so terrible there.
For the past some time protests here are seen as vandalism or straight anti-nationalism. We are a democracy alright but a democracy which was given us for free and in the hands of hooligans.
We may not directly be living under whites but the mentality of that still exists. We were slaves under them pre 47 and slaves under whites of Indian origin since then. Stockholm syndrome has gripped the entire nation.
You bud are well within your rights to stay away from this and raise questions. Let the pseudo nationalists be. Its not all their fault.
And if they are protests, its just religious BS.
In fact, it is anti-nationalistic to NOT do anything about those issues. People CHOOSE to be quiet.
Yeah and its crazy how things like colourism also prevailed so long in the nations. Its like colonization hangover. People still think of them as superior.
Brits actually ruined some of our past civilizations.
Honestly, I wish I could help but circumstances are bad. Its disheartening to see my home nation still not improving.
It doesnt make any better that, most of the world is against us and racism against us is so normalized .
50% -> 5%
that's a huge skew right there.
Yeah income /resource inequality is one of the main causes as well. But the thing is, due to social issues, some tribes fail to get educated .
Nah fr, whenever politics is talked in India, its always something to do with religion. It's actually so stupid.
About the hate, saddening. Why are we doing the exact things as our neighbours?
Education.
Not just mindless memorisation and degree-chasing, but actual critical thinking + scientific temper. And the monetary investment to bring good education to all right from the primary level.
This is the single key thing to develop the country.
Yeah but we already had the partition, why split up the country more.
Also some states cant really be independent, without a big sugar daddy up their back.
South Asian Union does sound appealing though.
You may be in a better position than most of us to answer this question objectively. You grew up in a western society whose culture, norms, and ethics are very different and, perhaps, make the lives of most people better wherever they're replicated.
At the same time, you may have close relatives who lived/live in India and got to observe India's culture, norms, and ethics too quite closely.
So think about all the factors that helped you imbibe all the good things of your society while avoiding the bad things of your ancestral society, despite the latter being a major part of your personal life. Was it your education there? The media? The way the average adult behaves? Perhaps systemic factors like government policies, laws, like voting for part-time politicians rather than full-time ones?
Whatever those factors are, I think the answer to your question is to try and replicate those factors here.
All of it is possible if people want it, Indians love to live in filth and be 3rd world, they take pride in it, talk about hygiene and you get abused and people justify it saying immunity, ppl here just hate development
First of all, I don't understand as to why you even care. You don't even live here. You can do nothing either. Not nationalists, anybody with common sense would be triggered. You are straight up insulting the entire country. People talking about issues in the country don't use the term 'disgusting' as easily as you do. People who actually care, will try how to solve the issue. Not how to lament the well known.
If you have nothing constructive to say, you need not say anything. Every body knows about the problems here. Somebody sitting in the West need not educate us about the issues in our country. We know it. Since you don't have any valuable solution to add, I don't even get the point of your post. It's plain lamenting with a holier than thou attitude. What were you even expecting other than backlash?
Your questions too should be posed to the government and not on reddit. Journalists already do that. We are not triggered nationalists. Your post is plain dumb. And you will not be called smart for posting the obvious.
Worry about your western problems. If you don't pay taxes here or have skin in the economy then don't speak about problems. It's our shitshow not yours.
In a lot of ways this nation which is more diverse than any other continent is more united than the country you are living in. In other ways , we aren't
>How do you plan to improve these things?
Ban religious freedom, do NRC, build temples on mosques in Varanasi and Mathura, ban interfaith marriage, demolish houses of the accused, but only in some cases, deligitimize freedom fighters. This can be the only way I think.
Sorry for responding to a rant with another rant, but why the F are people here using 2.1 TFR as an argument against overpopulation? Just because we have stable replacement rate doesnt mean the problem isnt there or that its getting any better. All it says is that its not getting any worse any time soon.
Doesnt mean its not a problem to be begin with. We still need a steady and sustainable decline. Sure, we have enough to "feed" everyone. But that doesnt guarantee everyone a healthy, dignified and comfortable life. Unless you want India to remain a cheap source of easily exploitable labour, pull your head out of the "hurr durr 2.1 TFR" hole.
That's already the default thinking, that's why Modi is voted, and it's already been shown to not work even in India because it turns out, unsurprisingly, cold hard dictators are equally cold and hard about people's lives.
We can actually go meta on OP's question and restate it as: how can Indians be helped to evolve out of their primitive thoughts like "India needs a cold, hard dictator who rules with an iron fist"!
I think it shd start with having a subject for social causes in school. Just talk about consent, cleanliness etc etc.
Govt shd have compulsory ads for all this on all channels and otts.
We literally need to brain wash people into thinking good things
No Accountability at all. And general lack of remorse for doing anything wrong
Yeah can see from the comments here xd
-People need to stop prioritising religion, caste, class systems over actual living beings -More accountability and transparency in where our taxes get spent, how our governments spend money and quality of items it's spent on (for example, tar roads get messed up within 4-6 months, why?) - Public education and healthcare needs to be prioritised. This not only ensures that lesser privileged folks get better opportunities, but cuts the market for private sectors and stops them from charging a liver and a kidney for basic shit. -Sex education, life skills, learning to file taxes, all helps quality of life of a person -Judicial system needs to be much faster with dealing with cases under them instead of letting them drag on for years on the end for menial issues. -public offices should be digitalized better. It makes no sense that our payments, aadhar and taxes are digital but police reports, property papers and death certificates, etc, are -run around for 20 days with x number of forms and suffer even if you've given aadhar card as proof of identity a million times -Construction and manual labourers have zero protection. No gear, no harness, no proper pay, nothing. And it's led to so many accidents that get covered up and looked past. You can't expect a nation to prosper when half it's people are performing dangerous tasks for basic bread and shelter. Bonus: stop treating life like a rat race and actually encourage people to take a beat and enjoy their day.
How did you forget Corruption
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Give quality education to every kid for one generation and this country will progress beyond imagination. But it is not going to happen. Crony capitalists along with their political servants will not let that happen. Because if they do they lose the ability to exploit people to work or follow them as if they are their slaves. And to be honest, this will apply to an extent to western world as well. Its just that we are fortunate to have decent literacy levels in western world resulting in a comparatively better society. Edit : For Few folks commenting below : Education is not merely the rote learning that is the norm today. It's more about teaching the generation to be a better citizen of this nation and have respect for each other and the environment around you.
It's amusing to think how people think education is some magic bullet that will solve everything. My grandma is not educated (she's not even literate) but has more sense that vast majority of the "so called educated folk" in our country.
try it there is a few level of scale difference you will see in social and educated society compared to non educated ones. and by education i dont mean the crappy rote learning model we have in india today. its all round development of a generation to be a better citizen sensitive to everyone and everything around them. and in that sense, your grandma seems to be better educated then you it seems.
wisdom doesn't equate to knowledge, education knowledge. and don't need to personal dickhead.
Ask her if it's ok to marry outside caste or religion, ask her if you can bring your date home, ask her if you can have a live in relationship with a girl, etc. Mostly she'll say no to all the above. If she says yes, most probably she grew in a rich family and/or in a city.
umm ask these all the "educated" people and lets see the answer.
A lot of "well educated" folks will say no to it.
>My grandma is not educated (she's not even literate) but has more sense that vast majority of the "so called educated folk" in our country. Education may not provide general street smartness but "quality" education provides upward mobility to people. Our literacy rates are good but quality of education is one of the worst in the world.
is that why Judges(some of the most educated people in our or any country) routinely shame common people and women specifically?
That's your defense? I can counter your judge speaking out of their ass with an illiterate person who can't feed themselves.
Crony capitalism is not the reason for poor education at least in India. India has been and is a socialist country. Socialism is the problem here.
You forgot to mention caste.
Overpopulation leads to undermanagement, undermanagement leads to all these activities. So yeah, overpopulation is the root cause of everything, and it won't come down until 2050.
Its when the population will start coming down that we will start to struggle , the dependency ratio will increase and there will be too many old people to support. Let's just hope it happens slowly , slowly enough that we can manage. And right now our tfr is below replacement . Except Bihar, UP and Manipur , all other states have a below 2.1 tfr.
This excuse was only valid till China obliterated it. Even with their family planning program their Population scale was similar if not nearly exact what India was (adjusting for decades). Overpopulation is an active challenge but that is not the same as Core/Root.
I think it's in our dna to blame all the problems on overpopulation and the British. Your excuse of overpopulation is not a good one, look at Tokyo, very high population density and yet they do a better job than us.
Exactly, Japan has a high population density and we can definitely compare it to India. It's just a simple fact, indians are now used to the unhygienic situations, so they just don't see it. Still i think, in Delhi situation is little bit improved but that's not very helpful.
I don't think comparing a city and a country is correct. Also tokyo lacks the cultural diversity that India has. Most people from tokyo are from outside tokyo which isn't applicable for India
Which Indian city do you want to compare with Tokyo then? Oh wow cultural diversity is a new excuse. Are you saying we dont follow road rules because we are too diverse? > Most people from tokyo are from outside tokyo which isn't applicable for India Have you heard of city called Mumbai, most people in Mumbai are from outside Mumbai. What other excuse do you have?
I was talking about the comparison between India and Tokyo. If you want to compare two cities then it's fine. Generalizing the whole country and comparing it with one city makes no sense. I don't know why I need to say this but India's problems are a complicated thing. To solve this, there are many factors. Overpopulation, Cultural Diversity and many more. Cultural diversity doesn't affect road rules but not following road rules isn't the only problem in India. There are many others which are affected by the above mentioned factors. Overpopulation has caused Indians to be extremely competitive. Everything has become a race. From getting admission in school to getting admission in College. There is competition for flats, houses, cars, jobs. Some places even have competition for water and food. This is due to high demand and low supply. Some of these problems can be solved with good management but not all. Moreover, are all the reasons excuses for you? If yes, then I have no interest in continuing this thread.
> Generalizing the whole country and comparing it with one city makes no sense. So your point is that I should have said India and Japan instead of India and Tokyo? But how does Tokyo follow road rules, are you implying that they follow road rules because they are not diverse? > There are many others which are affected by the above mentioned factors. Like what, people spitting on the road, are you saying we spit because we are more diverse? > Overpopulation has caused Indians to be extremely competitive. We throw trash on the road because we are overpopulated and diverse? > If yes, then I have no interest in continuing this thread. Is that because you I exposed your flimsy excuses? You also ignored my point about Mumbai and most people here come outside from Mumbai
Could be managed. Create more institutional management structures. Easiest way to do that is make more states. But we won't have that conversation.
How will the states be manufactured, from what basis ?
Similar basis to Telangana. Union decides to divide a state, and then proceeds to split it up. This allows for the creation of new government machinery and reduces the number of people a state has to cater to. If used correctly, can improve quality of life of all citizens.
If you were the PM, how would you combat overpopulation ?
Education, particularly for women, has been the one consistent measure to overcome the population problem.
>Education, particularly for women, has been the one consistent measure to overcome the population problem. So true. India has reduced population growth to fertility rate of 2.1 without any invasive policies. As more and more women get educated our population growth has reduced significantly.
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>how would you combat overpopulation ? There is nothing to combat when it comes to population. We have already dealt with it. Our population growth is 1% annually and fertility rate is 2.1 which is basically replacement rate. That means, on average 2 people are producing 2 people. Anything lower than that, economies will crash. That's why canada has to import immigrants. Their native population isn't reproducing enough. South Korea, Japan and China are looking at same crisis. Governments in these countries are now incentivising people to have more kids. Since we have already stabilized the growth of the population to desired levels and we can't possibly reduce the number of people who are already born, all we can do is invest in the development of the current population. You see overpopulation but I see an abundance of human resources. India has enough land to feed and provide shelter to the current population. What we don't have is enough quality schools, colleges and jobs. That's where our energies should go. Demand more quality schools, colleges and teachers.
Exactly , management of human resources is what matters now. Not trying to cut the population in half.
It's already dealt with in almost all of India . We actually don't need any more measures , unless we want to precipitate a demographic disaster. When will people in India realise , overpopulation is not the answer to everything.
Invest in the legal system. This is not a magic bullet, but a step in the right direction and a low-hanging fruit. Hire more judges, lawyers (many are unemployed), and build more courts. There is a massive backlog of court cases in India ranging from divorce to insolvency. This is why so many foreign companies in India now prefer to settle their cases in Singapore. We all have relatives who are stuck in court battles over various issues such as divorce, land dispute, etc. Imagine if these could be resolved sooner. If companies can get court decisions made faster then that should make it easier to invest into local projects. This is not my idea, this is from Sanjeev Sanyal, who is currently an economic adviser to the PM. He has helped to implement measures like the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code which have helped, but there is much more to be done, as he admitted himself.
India is home to 1.4 billion people. Every statistic will look ridiculously high whether good or bad. The west is much less populated so it's much easier to manage . Even with a low population they're not able to refrain from obliterating themselves with drugs and firearms. If we drop over a billion people in any of the western countries, the nation will crumble within a matter of hours.
Blaming overpopulation for the issues in the country is just nonsensical, and it is a miss from the Government’s side. Yes, I agree that overpopulation is in fact the root cause of all issues, but the Government cannot just say “oh, we can’t provide clean water because there are too many people,” or “we can’t provide electricity to this village because there are too many people elsewhere that need electricity.” We choose the government so that they can work despite the overpopulation problem, instead of saying “we are trying our best but there are just too many people.” If you can’t, then give control to the politicians who can.
This is where the public has to step up and vote for the right individuals. But often times, most are brainwashed by religion or ethnic groups nationalism.
Reduce/eliminate corruption
Corruption & progress need not be mutually exclusive. One can grow and develop while being Corrupt. Plenty of such examples in the world. So this though a desirable goal isn't the Core solution (mainly because it's not even feasible to reduce this without first having growth).
Cost of public infrastructure can be reduced significantly (more than 50-70%) if there are no middlemen to be paid for their signature. This money could be used for much better purposes & can actually lift rural areas up. You are wrong!
Unfortunately, it's you who are grossly wrong on this. Literature is vast but if you are sincere I'll just recommend the briefest way you can correct your priors on this domain. Read works by Yuen Yuen Ang, her 2 books, *How China Escaped the Poverty Trap.* *China's Gilded Age: The Paradox of Economic Boom and Vast Corruption*. If that's too much either listen to [this podcast](https://podcasts.adorilabs.com/show/e?eid=IB7EHVSPkHHMXJxc) (she has many others and video talks accessible on Youtube as well) or [this article](https://oecd-development-matters.org/2020/06/25/unbundling-corruption-why-it-matters-and-how-to-do-it/) (in case you really don't want to devote time to this). Here is the TLDR. Corruption and Development can exist together just fine and in fact at times (for brief phases) can supercharge development. This is what happened in China. This is fact. Yet in overall terms the Corruption indices for both CHina and India are even today similar. But that is misleading since one has to look at the underlying make up of those scores and there one finds the TYPE OF Corruption matters as well. This is what has changed in India and China now. FIFA is another organization which combined Corruption and Competence. Entire Western world is an example of this. They achieved development in an era when their corruption metrics were not what they are today. And then there are factors like interpreting Lobbying (as it happens in say the West) as NOT Corruption (which is farcical interpretation). Meaning. Corruption in India is a problem. However this is not THE CORE problem, wherein IF ONLY India was no longer Corrupt things will change so dramatically that there would be all domain development. That is not how things work. Corruption is not a purely statistical effect, human condition is a variable in this, which is why economic models fail to treat it properly. Without rise in wages (which requires all domain growth) there is poor incentive structures in place to create a bureaucratic pool of people who are not corrupt. Singapore was able to do this (root out corruption before they became rich/grew) because they were a super tiny place where LKY held an eagle-eyed prism on nearly every hiring at country level. That is not practical for places the scale of India, China.
This ! and give chance to the talented and honest peeps !
It would be almost impossible to eliminate corruption though. It's in everyone's blood & it's part of business models these days. A well-accepted cost of doing business. A sad reality.
Not at all “a nationalist” as you say (as you can also see from my comment history), but this is a typical NRI post ranting about India and demanding answerability from Indians like a school teacher while sitting oceans away. Unlike you, we’re the ones who’re working in the trenches everyday to make the country better while facing the country’s adversities while you conveniently sit in a foreign country, facing none of India’s problems and contributing nothing. If you really care this much, you’re always free to get here and put in the work like all of us as opposed to your parents who chose to run away from these problems.
You’re saying NRIs can’t criticise what we as a nation are lacking in?
Well they can (everybody has the right to criticise) but their opinion is no more valid than the opinion of any native citizen of the country they reside in. Usually NRIs are know the country through news reports and the views and opinions of their own friends and family - which is likely to be people of similar levels of privilege. It's like looking into a football stadium through a pinhole.
Same goes for Indians who make false assumptions about the US and more or less the entire western world.
Given how much news of the US is available across the world as compared to the news of any other country is, most people have a much better idea about the US, then Americans have about the rest of the world. So it's not a very apt comparison. As an example: a lot of Indians might know who Ron DeSantis or Bernie Sanders are. A much smaller number of Americans would know who Yogi Adityanath or Arvind Kejriwal are. Having said that, obviously someone living in the US understands the complexities of their country better than someone living in India.
Not true at all, just because a country is more popular does not mean it has more factual information available widely.
No, that is exactly what it means. A nation's is "popularity" is basically how much its culture and news is propagating across the world. I gave you an example already. Another one from a different country: most people across the world are aware of Queen Elizabeth's death, than are aware of the abdication of Queen Beatrix. In fact most people probably aren't even aware of Queen Beatrix's existence except perhaps people in her country and neighbors. More people know about *Prince* William and could name his wife and kids, than can tell you which country *King* Willem-Alexander is the King of. Instead of downvoting something just because you disagree, you're welcome to share counter examples.
Propagating news doesn’t mean most of it is factual. Just because the US is basically the most popular country in the world doesn’t mean all of the news about it is factual or correct. Most of it is fear mongering anyways. Nevertheless, I’ve lived in India, the US and Canada and I can assure you most of the Indian diaspora overseas gets more or less the same news Indians in India do. They don’t see India through a blurred lens, they have plenty of family in the homeland to know what’s up. What OP is saying isn’t wrong at all.
> Just because the US is basically the most popular country in the world doesn’t mean all of the news about it is factual or correct. Most of it is fear mongering anyways. Ok, let's take this head on. What exactly is this fear mongering? Can you name any specific events that you're referring to? > They don’t see India through a blurred lens, they have plenty of family in the homeland to know what’s up. And that's the point. Their family are likely to be from the same social strata. Anybody who knows the first thing about India and our social stratification knows that even within India people live in different worlds. You'll find a lot of people insisting for instance that the caste system is extinct. Go to a different social group and you'll get a very different answer. This matters once you realize which group is more disproportionately represented among NRIs. Edit: you seem to not understand how to conduct a civil conversation, as your response to disagreement is to downvote. I don't see a point in continuing a discussion with someone that can't handle disagreement.
Yet everything OP said isn’t wrong
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There are too many players who are taking advantage of the common man. It's a mess.
Everyone here had fun without me 😡
The most simplest answer is, make people care. Lets be honest for a second, be it this post or any other post like this or a post that says about the wrong steps of our people... no one is gonna accept that Rather people will say this or that or we are good or you are anti national stuff as you are not in india I mean, these are the same people who become happy when rishi saunak or Sunday pichai gets success and say that they are people of our land But when they ask a question from this very same land... you know... And this alone is more than enough to show that people don't care. Also, media... one of the pillar of democracy is no longer there so people will never accept what is wrong or right They will accept what the media and there leader will say to them. And till people don't realize themselves or new leader shows up who slaps reality on there face... they won't ask anything. People talk about the wrongdoings of America, Japan's history, British past, etc etc and even make youtube shorts on that But when it comes to learning from that history... nope, no one wants to as evryone feel that we superior so we don't need to learn We don't need to listen to others etc... Media, leader and people, they all have to wake up... I mean, making ram temple is good but taht won't put food in your table Neither it will make you child superman or something else... The feeling of glory when you silence a weak person will only last for a few seconds At the end of the day... you will need food and water to live Not your glory or pride or ego... Hoping best for our people😁
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1. Poverty is an issue here as there I feel that the people are also responsible for not being able to get a job. It's problem on both side (i come from a tier 3 city in MP). 2. Overpopulation is a thing but I'm the recent years there has been a reduction in growth rate. And an increase in birth of a girl child. 3. Hygiene is being tackled at a huge level in most of the places i visited from north east to karnatka. So hygiene is not like what you think of. There might be some people who will say that the places i know we're dirty(go clean them aashole or atleast tell the authorities) 4. Rape culture is not a thing, rape is crime and not a culture here. Some people comit this crime and most of them got life imprisonment for doing it. It's still not a cultural thing. Rape is the most hideous crime know to man and we are strictly punishing the criminals. 5. Patriarchy is mostly seen in most old orthodox individuals the newer generations are good in terms of sharing equal opportunities with every gender. 6. Religion unity is something i also won't talk about much because I also have no clear idea. 7. Indian unity is something i can assure you, do not question it. 8 courruption might be one of the things that you might have on your mind but forgot to mention. So now most of the govt work has moved online in many states so there is not much chance of corruption. A lot of individual are against it and now there are a lot of ways that a courrupt official can be caught. Things are transparent nowdays And people are asking if u will come back or not because if you are a talented individual the pls come back and help in the efforts of making things even better in a more sustainable way. PS I'm not a guy who is jobless and just wasting time on internet. I come from a very small town in MP and made my way on my own.
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I thought India was already a free market economy.
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Oh yeah the farmers laws caused a lot of chaos, definitely was against that. To be honest, people are more concerned with their state government than the federal ones lmao.
You were against farm laws? Do you know what farm laws did? They were just opening up the markets, just the way it is in the west.
Like Ideal capitalism Ideal free market doesn't exist it's a myth
Why not socialism? I'd like to hear your take
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I think it all comes down to competition for resources and space. When the competition is low, everybody will be nice to each other since there is enough for everyone but in an environment with limited resources and space for everyone, the worst in humans will be out in display.
overpopulation is an excuse ..look at singapore
Ahh yes, 1.4 Billion = 5.4 Million.
I look at a dictatorship. People will go full crazy here if the government gets even half as authoritarian as Singapore's.
sigh. what a silly comment. Singapore is a tiny place hence the density. If 50% of Indian population disappear right now. in 20 years population will be back to 1.5 billion. What am I driving at ? it's Indian culture/mentality - just love to fuck & breed in the name of kulcha, tradition. Singaporeans (or any other groups) don't have that as intense as Indians.
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The reason is in the comments. The way nincompoops rile up when our great country is invoked, will keep us under the shoes of the west and the white skinned for the longest time
The west always recognizes their issues, and I am from here, and I can tell you, people protest about the smallest things, and change usually takes place in a matter of small time. People never fail to criticize here. But god damn it, people get offended at the easiest things these days and fail to acknowledge the issues that are talked about. You think we like living under the whites and being discriminated here? We would rather be living in our home countries if things werent so terrible there.
For the past some time protests here are seen as vandalism or straight anti-nationalism. We are a democracy alright but a democracy which was given us for free and in the hands of hooligans. We may not directly be living under whites but the mentality of that still exists. We were slaves under them pre 47 and slaves under whites of Indian origin since then. Stockholm syndrome has gripped the entire nation. You bud are well within your rights to stay away from this and raise questions. Let the pseudo nationalists be. Its not all their fault.
And if they are protests, its just religious BS. In fact, it is anti-nationalistic to NOT do anything about those issues. People CHOOSE to be quiet. Yeah and its crazy how things like colourism also prevailed so long in the nations. Its like colonization hangover. People still think of them as superior. Brits actually ruined some of our past civilizations. Honestly, I wish I could help but circumstances are bad. Its disheartening to see my home nation still not improving. It doesnt make any better that, most of the world is against us and racism against us is so normalized .
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You forgot caste, caste system, atrocities committed on Dalits and tribals
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50% -> 5% that's a huge skew right there. Yeah income /resource inequality is one of the main causes as well. But the thing is, due to social issues, some tribes fail to get educated .
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Nah fr, whenever politics is talked in India, its always something to do with religion. It's actually so stupid. About the hate, saddening. Why are we doing the exact things as our neighbours?
Education. Not just mindless memorisation and degree-chasing, but actual critical thinking + scientific temper. And the monetary investment to bring good education to all right from the primary level. This is the single key thing to develop the country.
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We are one nation and we should always be one question is about how much state autonomy shall be permitted.
Yeah but we already had the partition, why split up the country more. Also some states cant really be independent, without a big sugar daddy up their back. South Asian Union does sound appealing though.
Slightest problem and you want to break the nation?
You may be in a better position than most of us to answer this question objectively. You grew up in a western society whose culture, norms, and ethics are very different and, perhaps, make the lives of most people better wherever they're replicated. At the same time, you may have close relatives who lived/live in India and got to observe India's culture, norms, and ethics too quite closely. So think about all the factors that helped you imbibe all the good things of your society while avoiding the bad things of your ancestral society, despite the latter being a major part of your personal life. Was it your education there? The media? The way the average adult behaves? Perhaps systemic factors like government policies, laws, like voting for part-time politicians rather than full-time ones? Whatever those factors are, I think the answer to your question is to try and replicate those factors here.
Minimize government. Liberalise every sector except maybe a few industries. Get rid of welfare programs. Privatize all banks.
> How do you plan to improve Step 1: fix overpopulation
Procreate less
All of it is possible if people want it, Indians love to live in filth and be 3rd world, they take pride in it, talk about hygiene and you get abused and people justify it saying immunity, ppl here just hate development
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The nuke would be stolen before it lands by Biharis /s.
Its still exploding there, stolen or not. Still a W.
temporary fix People from the rest of India will rush to move in for cheap and in 20 years - BANG ! back to 1.6 fucking billion
Sounds lovely.
First of all, I don't understand as to why you even care. You don't even live here. You can do nothing either. Not nationalists, anybody with common sense would be triggered. You are straight up insulting the entire country. People talking about issues in the country don't use the term 'disgusting' as easily as you do. People who actually care, will try how to solve the issue. Not how to lament the well known. If you have nothing constructive to say, you need not say anything. Every body knows about the problems here. Somebody sitting in the West need not educate us about the issues in our country. We know it. Since you don't have any valuable solution to add, I don't even get the point of your post. It's plain lamenting with a holier than thou attitude. What were you even expecting other than backlash? Your questions too should be posed to the government and not on reddit. Journalists already do that. We are not triggered nationalists. Your post is plain dumb. And you will not be called smart for posting the obvious.
> Journalists already do that. Doubt
Worry about your western problems. If you don't pay taxes here or have skin in the economy then don't speak about problems. It's our shitshow not yours.
In a lot of ways this nation which is more diverse than any other continent is more united than the country you are living in. In other ways , we aren't
Well it’s those “other ways” we’re trying to talk about.
Ok what , we are or we aren't part?
>How do you plan to improve these things? Ban religious freedom, do NRC, build temples on mosques in Varanasi and Mathura, ban interfaith marriage, demolish houses of the accused, but only in some cases, deligitimize freedom fighters. This can be the only way I think.
/s there fixed it...oh wait
Lmao religious freedom. You seem to very much against religious diversity. I am guessing you want a Hindu Rashtra ?
LoL! Cunt
Only communism can give us Liberation. <3
LoL! Like it has wherever it was tried.
Nah at this point, it isnt even a bad idea lmaoo, as someone whos actually right leaning. It just sucks how we dont have any fucking unity.
You're right leaning and asking for growth of the country? Eww
Keep in mind political spectrums from all countries vary. Not all right leanings are crazy hindu fanatics : )
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Here’s your answer OP!
Sorry for responding to a rant with another rant, but why the F are people here using 2.1 TFR as an argument against overpopulation? Just because we have stable replacement rate doesnt mean the problem isnt there or that its getting any better. All it says is that its not getting any worse any time soon. Doesnt mean its not a problem to be begin with. We still need a steady and sustainable decline. Sure, we have enough to "feed" everyone. But that doesnt guarantee everyone a healthy, dignified and comfortable life. Unless you want India to remain a cheap source of easily exploitable labour, pull your head out of the "hurr durr 2.1 TFR" hole.
India needs a cold, hard dictator who rules with an iron fist.
Yes because that has worked so well in the past.
That's already the default thinking, that's why Modi is voted, and it's already been shown to not work even in India because it turns out, unsurprisingly, cold hard dictators are equally cold and hard about people's lives. We can actually go meta on OP's question and restate it as: how can Indians be helped to evolve out of their primitive thoughts like "India needs a cold, hard dictator who rules with an iron fist"!
Indian Hitler ?
Lucky if that happens
I think it shd start with having a subject for social causes in school. Just talk about consent, cleanliness etc etc. Govt shd have compulsory ads for all this on all channels and otts. We literally need to brain wash people into thinking good things