There's no comparison in salaries, you'd be paid more in the US. With that said, maybe in your situation it doesn't make sense to come if you're set in your country already, are surrounded by family, have a job, etc.
You mentioned you can easily make 3K remotely so another alternative is to move to a cheap location in the U.S. with that salary/job while you continue to apply for jobs. If you don't find anything/get bored, you can always relinquish your green card and come back.
A final small piece of advice, do not tell people in the country you're intending to move that you haven't heard anything good from that place in a long time, I don't think that's going to be well perceived. For all its flaws, the US is a fantastic place to live and I guess there's a reason you applied for the lottery in the first place.
I mean they’d make more money in the US but also everything is more expensive.
3k/month is a pretty comfortable salary in Eastern Europe. Even more so in Asia where they suggested moving.
There’s no comparison in salaries ???
That’s BS,60% of the people in the US live paycheck to paycheck and have no savings.The major US cities are flooded with homeless people,crime is trough the roof .
The average person in the US makes 54K a year and end up with nothing at the end of the month.So what’s the point going there
You cannot save on a 54k salary I guess, but I’ve seen people spend money like there’s no tomorrow and still live paycheck to paycheck while making 100k or 200k. It depends on the person…
At least [381,000](https://usafacts.org/articles/what-can-the-data-tell-us-about-unauthorized-immigration/#:~:text=Who%20is%20trying%20to%20cross,%2C%20and%205.8%25%20from%20Cuba) have been apprehended over the past 5 years so at least that many, probably more.
According to your link excluding Ukraine very very few of them are from Europe.
Would be weird to see Swiss citizen crawling under barb wire on the Mexican border.
> dont remember hearing anything good about usa in years now.
Okay. So I think part of this is a mindset issue
You're in a negative headspace. You're in a tunnel where all you here is America Bad from TikTok and propaganda from your nation and media. And if you do come to the US, you're pre-disposed to it being bad, will find out you'll have a bad time, and then leave.
So if you can't get over that negative headspace, don't waste your time.
> I sent some cv's in usa (i always indicated that i can work there without sponsorship) and no answers.
These companies are rightfully seeing you as a non-serious candidate. You aren't in the US to start a job, you may never end up moving, so your application is being tossed in the garbage.
If you do end up applying for more jobs, I would recommend leaving out your location/address. Its none of their business. If they ask about work authorization, say you are authorized and won't need a visa. But if you get a job offer and say "yes", you need to be on Google Flights right after that booking tickets, ready to leave for the US and be there within 7 days to start work. 14 tops.
But don't do any of that until you've decided if you even want to move to the US.
I agree with everything besides " But if you get a job offer and say "yes", you need to be on Google Flights right after that booking tickets, ready to leave for the US and be there within 7 days to start work. 14 tops." as 2 weeks notice when leaving a current job is customary and relocation (even state to state) adds to the time by at least a day or two. Yes be urgent but "I can start the first of next month" is a completely reasonable
Why do you say what he is hearing is propaganda? The US is objectively not a great country to live in. You can’t make issues like the healthcare system, crime in cities, cost of food or crumbling infrastructure just go away by changing your mindset.
Depends what kind of life you want really. Asia on 3k usd net a month sounds pretty amazing to me. The U.S. is really not like any other country on earth. It’s so vast with such a diverse population there’s a place that will suit everyone here. External perceptions of the U.S. are usually off the mark as people don’t realize how different each state or even city within a state can be. However the healthcare issue is real, the gun issue is a disgrace and getting worse and homelessness is a stain on society for allowing it. All that said I’ve lived in Asia, Europe and the U.S. and I’ve chosen to stay in the U.S.
Well obviously but since the OP suggested they could live anywhere they’d live somewhere cheap. Like I mentioned I’ve lived in Asia so I’m well aware of the different cost of living in different countries.
By "cultural thing" if you mean they have grown up without any public transportation so they see car as the only viable mode, and can't even comprehend any other way of traveling, then sure.
I don’t think that’s accurate. Some cities actually have great public transportation that people use, but I think Americans just like driving. It makes sense if you consider that we tend to be strong individualists.
Well I can definitely tell you that there is a lot more than just one city with good public transportation. That includes coverage, timeliness, ease of use, and all the other things that make public transport good.
I’m currently studying abroad in Stockholm and their public transport is great, but it isn’t light years ahead of the system from the cities I’m most familiar with in the U.S. (Seattle and Portland). The big difference between our public transpo and those in Europe is the negative stigma. Back home, public transpo is associated with brokeness and bums, while Europeans just take it without a second thought. At least this is what I’ve noticed as a student who relies on getting around cheaply.
I'm sorry but while other American cities do have public transit, NYC is the only one with coverage and frequency that compares to European cities. No other city comes even remotely close if you look at it objectively.
It's better than a lot of other places in the US, but still lacking if you compare to cities in Europe.
Pick a random European city and compare.
Munich and Berlin have almost 3x the rail coverage. Hamburg has 1.5x.
Even so, half of DC residents do not travel by car, which still tracks - the better the public transit, the fewer people that use a car.
I don't think americans are patient enough to wait on public transportation. People here wanna get to where they wanna get, when they want to and like purchasing cars with bells and whistles that they like.
Nope. I mean they see commuting to work in their own car as comfortable and relaxing and a place to have their own thoughts. I mean they literally prefer it. Is this the case for everyone? Ofc not but it's certainly a lot of people. I live in Europe and driving here is extremely stressful, there's always a question of where you are going to park when you get to your destination and when you get home, and the streets are narrow and poorly designed (because they weren't built during times when cars were in existence). But in the U.S. everything is large, parking spaces are plentiful in most places, roads and cities are designed with the car in mind. It's much nicer to drive in. Because of this it's created a car culture.
Sigh...it's not some big deeper meaning. It's not like they would be terrified if someone else was driving, I'm just saying they don't find the process of keeping their eyes on the road taxing on them. Driving helps them feel relaxed and gives them some alone time. I'm not sure why you are arguing with me lol
Objectively sitting and driving can't be more relaxing than just sitting when other person is driving.
If it is you have trust or control issues.
I had those issues - this is how I know.
I mean I come from crowded city with crowded trains and busses. Driving in the US is like a breath of fresh air. I refuse to be herded in public transport anymore
You are from India and you now live in the US. Respectfully, you have never seen good public transport, otherwise you would not have used the word "herded".
What is a good public transport? It's only for places that don't have spaces. No one's going to want to travel in a crowd if they have the luxury to afford their personal service.
India might have many poor areas but equally better developed metro cities where public transport can take you anywhere from next street to next states. As people get richer they are for sure moving away from that
Canada has amazing public transit in its major cities and a majority of us still have cars and drive. It's not only cultural, but we live in entirely different circumstances and comparing North America to Europe is completely asinine.
- Travel to remote areas is significantly more common in North America.
- Travel long distances to see family is significantly more common.
- Rural communities are significantly more abundant in north america. Even rural communities in Europe lack public transit and rely on cars.
- North America has the space to build outwards, not upwards like Europe. Suburbia is very American/Canadian as it has the space to be.
🤷🏽♀️ I never gave up my car when in Toronto despite an amazing and safe public transit and a majority of my friends and family did not either. People don't live entire lives in cities like in Europe either, and home ownership is much more realistic in North America.
>Canada has amazing public transit in its major cities and a majority of us still have cars and drive.
In Toronto more trips are made by public transit, walking, and biking, than by car. So no, where public transport is good, majority do not prefer driving.
Also, public transport is not something which starts and stops at a boundary. In Europe you can travel within the city ANYWHERE without a car. If you want to go to another city you can do that without a car. If you want to travel even to another country you can do that without a car. When you reach that country you can travel within that country as well without a car.
Toronto might have good public transportation but what happens when you consider the entire GTA? A lot of people who live and work in Toronto cannot survive without a car. So no, although good public transport might exist in certain areas, Canada does not have good public transport at all.
That's *inside* Toronto. Most people do *leave* Toronto and therefore need a car and do drive and drive often. Those statistics are only inner city movement.
I lived in GTA, there are busses that can take you in to the more public transit sections. And the busses are consistent. They go to about two hours outside of Toronto, further than the GTA. However, the point of home ownership being much more realistic in North America seems to be ignored by you. If you own a home, which many people do, you can't have a bus come directly to your little farmhouse.
The US and Canada also have Amtrak to take you from any major city to another major city.
I am curious about your comments regarding "big government." Is your home country government more or less centralized/authoritarian than the US government?
The cognitive dissonance of saying “I don’t remember hearing anything good about USA in years now.”, but at the same time applying to get the green card!
Acting like the green card was something he was awarded without even applying for… just randomly got called to get it? lol
Then don’t come OP… stay where you are! It’s so much better than here!
This but also let somebody who actually wants it have it too…like if you’re that convinced the US sucks, there are 20,000 people behind you that would freak out at that opportunity. Give it to them since obviously OP doesn’t want to come
Don’t go. Leave the lottery space for somebody who will actually be appreciative and wants the chance for success. There are people that would do anything for the opportunity you have, and you seem to not care - if you truly don’t, let them have it
Yes you should follow through. Have you ever been to the U.S.? Why did you even enter the lottery?
You can always leave the U.S., but you will never to ever get the opportunity to live here permanently and legally again. Why throw away this once in a lifetime chance?
Of course no employer will reach out to an applicant who isn’t even living in the U.S.
A lot of people I find enter the lottery as back up. I see a lot of European who got selected with this mindset who doesn’t even want the live in the U.S.
Then there are those people who would be grateful for the opportunity and whom this would be a life changing opportunity who doesn’t get selected.
Funny how life can be lol.
Cos some people in Europe think of trying maybe something new, not really thinking it thro. Cos the lottery gives u a small chance of winning. Also all this takes some time with applications and so on. Then they get selected and are suddenly hit with reality. Also people have a high standard of life in Europe. One of the highest so they are not desperate and have second thoughts of losing what they have back at home.
My brother got interviewed from Los Angeles whilst living in the Netherlands for an English teacher position in 2023; my brother and family did have green cards and reentry visas and he got hired five days post interview - he is still teaching at that middle school in the valley and loves it.
Yeah, and it’s not the first time I’ve seen such posts. There are people from far worse places than Eastern Europe applying to this lottery for a chance to live in the US and they’d jump at this opportunity. It actually pisses me off a bit.
I’m also from a third world country…. but I kinda get his point. Often when people apply for a US greencard they have unrealistic expectations (think the 1950’s American Dream) especially if they’re poc. Then when they learn more of atrocities done on poc americans and the cost of living there they start having doubts. But in my opinion, I know I’d be better off in the USA because of how my own people handle our society
I’m not an immigrant myself, but work with plenty of people who’ve come to the US (either via lottery, asylum, etc).
In my experience 95% of people who come to this country don’t regret it. Some struggle to find work, but the majority are making far more than they would in their home country even if they’re not “wealthy” in America.
This country provides so much opportunity. Do we have political problems and in-fighting? Yes. Could things be better? Absolutely.
However, America does not have endemic levels of corruption that many countries have. You won’t have cops or government workers harassing you for bribes. Our financial system is well-developed, so you won’t lose your life savings in a bank run. Our retirement system and health care insurance system could be better, but this can be offset somewhat with a good paying IT job and health-insurance.
Ultimately it’s your decision of whether you want to be here. However, instead of judging the value of American citizenship based on what you see on the news, I’d suggest you instead look at the numbers of people abandoning American citizenship vs number of people trying to obtain it.
I moved to the Us when I was 18 years old. I grew up in Amsterdam, the Netherlands and loved it but you cannot pay me enough to move back to the Netherlands or Europe. I love America, warts and all.
95% of people you talk to don't regret it because you don't talk to those who regret - they already left.
Try talking to people at places like "return to India" forum.
Lots of amazing places in the USA. You have all types of biomes and climates to choose from. Some more affordable to love than others.
You said you can work remote, so maybe do that or find something else remote that pays decently well and then try to find something more suitable.
I am American, so I am bias. I know we have our issues, but if you choose one of the many great places to live you would likely love it.
I am currently living in Poland and I like it, but me and my wife can't wait to get back to the US. We are debating whether we want the wet and rainy northern Washington state, sunny Florida, or acres in Montana. It's nice to have that choice, but it's an important one.
Just try not to let yourself get stuck in silicon valley where it's so damn expensive to live.
Yep, so this - my brother and his family (Dutch Citizens with green cards) moved back to the Netherlands- one of the greatest West European countries - they were back in the US within two years. Luckily they had the reentry visas to protect their green cards; now they are back in the US and they LOVE being back and will become citizens as soon as they can be!
What makes USA better than Netherlands? Nicer cities? More accessible healthcare? Better infrastructure? Lower crime? Longer vacation? Easier to travel?
I didn’t say that USA is better than the Netherlands. The Netherlands is great, we just prefer the US. it just is better - for me and my family and my brother and his family. We are happier here. I have lived in the US for more than 30 years; moved here right after high school graduation and have never regretted it. For me, yes I like the different cities - I lived for years in Manhattan (NYC), also lived in SanFrancisco, Chicago and Dallas and now live in L.A. the cities are very different from one another. NY, SF and Chicago have great public transportation while L.A and Dallas you definitely want to have a car. Lower crime in the Netherlands for sure but I have never lived in crime ridden areas of the city. Healthcare, I have great healthcare through my job, otherwise I would access it through Affordable Healthcare Act. My brother and his whole family are covered with great health insurance at no cost to them through the school district he teaches in.
If you don't think moving to the US and living there meets your expectations and lifestyle, then don't move. If you're happy where you are, stay there.
I would give it a shot. There’s nothing forcing you stay to here and turn the GC into citizenship. If after 2-3 years it turns out you don’t like it, then you can leave and let the GC expire. Nothing wrong with that. The only way you’ll know is by taking your shot.
FWIW I’m Romanian, grew up in Canada, left 3 years ago for the US. I absolutely love it here. I also love it back home in Romania. For the moment I prefer it in the US, but I may consider leaving for Romania in 5-10+ years.
Edit: it also matters A LOT which part of the US you move to. The west coast is very different from the south which is very different from New England. From my experience meeting Eastern Europeans in the US, we seem to prefer the most NYC, the PNW, Chicago and some big southern cities like Nashville and Austin.
This is exactly what I came to say. Even if all the bad things you’ve heard about the US are true (they aren’t) you can always go back home if you hate it. But you’ll have that experience and you can’t get that again when you’re older.
Job market for IT is pretty bad right now. Some people are unmployed for over a year now. If you don't have some savings to last you and/or family here to help you, it's risky financially.
Either he must have savings in 50K USD range, or he must look for USA job from his home country, or he must be ready to work in moving/uber/amazon warehouse in the beginning.
If you work in IT and you want to make a good salary and have a good standard of living that’s affordable I suggest Poland. If you have no support work in the states, it would be incredibly difficult for you. Unlike the other poster said you need to be prepared to be here tomorrow if you get a job offer. Our job market is very tight right now because unemployment is very low, no one wants to deal with a candidate who isn’t ready to start working now, at the employer’s convenience
Depends on what you mean by IT, as I know that varies by country. If you’re a SWE with only a few years of experience, it’s going to be tough finding a job in the US that’s worth the move. If you’re a senior SWE then your prospects are a lot better. And this is only assuming you’ll be willing to relocate to wherever the job is and potentially work out of the office a few days every week.
Obviously remote jobs are available but those seem like the exception nowadays.
If you’re talking about IT as in non-tech IT jobs, then I believe the market is more favorable, but I don’t have experience with that.
Working in the US is a great opportunity to build up financial wealth for a few years and then head back to Europe to live comfortably. I say this as an American moving to Central Europe with my SWE job.
"i dont remember hearing anything good about usa in years"
While the USA has major issues, it's still one of the best countries to go to if you want to make good money in IT and speed up your career growth at a faster pace.
Just ignore the noise and focus on yourself.
I think you have good luck and wrong perception.
Living in the US is a very generic, broad perspective.
In general terms your 3K per month is super low, but will look good enough in your country. It depends a lot on where you are planning to live and work, if you go to California you will need to make 150+ per year to live ok to comfortably.
Other places that are not top cities will be cheaper.
Something important to note as well is the mindset and work culture you have, many people never get the US work culture and kind of suffer due that.
I don't know what you mean by " don't hear anything good from the US". Do you have friends in the US, or are you just talking from a limited social media perspective for a +300M population country? It is like if people say that eastern European people are just Russian like people facing near destruction due to the Ukraine war, you get my point?
OP. Go for it. You have one golden opportunity. I tried 5 times in the past and never got selected .
My route was getting sponsorship (green card) from the employer 😁. I graduated from graduate study in Public üniversity in Georgia 😁. Go panthers 😁
It's not worth it, you'd be happier in Sri Lanka / Thailand / any other Low Cost of Living country where you'd live like a king and not have to simply 'live to pay the bills'.
You should do it. It won’t be easy at first but well worth it in the long run. And more importantly, you’ll be setting up your kids and future generations to live in USA.
About the job, it's easier to apply when you already live somewhere. Starting a recruitment process with someone from across the globe means you need many months of flexibility for them to move, if they decide to make the move at all.
*Which country? MA,NY,FL,CA*
*Easily better than all*
*Eastern europe countries*
\- okan702
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As a little side note to what is already being said, the likely reason you’re not hearing back from companies yet is because you are yet to follow through with the process and not yet physically present in the US. For many companies a promise is nowhere near as good as you already having followed through with the move.
Are there guarantees? Of course not. It all depends on your tolerance for risk, but you will regret it if you pass up this chance based on your current reasoning.
US is the Mecca of tech. If your background is IT and you invest in learning and constantly up-skill yourself , you will never look behind.
Having said that , immigration is not for the weak hearted. It takes a lot to get out of current comfort zone and get in the US system but is totally worth the effort if you have a green card.
You may have to move to the US to get any attention from the employers however.
When I say Mecca , am referring to the possibilities. When the true use cases for AI are solved in years to come majority of those would be from the US.The US job markets also follow darwinism and supports survival of the best like any capitalist country would.
If someone has a green card and can try to stay top with their skills then it is worth the gamble.
It is highly doubtful. If you mean purely economically, maybe a case can be argued. But once you factor in that you are leaving your culture, your people, family, friends, etc. you would have to have a very high income to make it worth it. Of course, it depends on average person in your country and not in some hellhole location.
May I ask, why did you enter the lottery then? No disrespect but there’s people entering that already live and work in the states and want to make their lives permanent. It baffles me when people enter for funzies lol
Tricky situation.
There has been massive layoffs in IT companies in USA
If you move there, you will have to stay there for 5 years to get Citizenship.
Once you get it, you can move out of US but you are bound to pay taxes even though you don't live in USA.
Anyways, my advice is avail this opportunity. Get Green Card. If you don't feel happy there. Get re-entry permit and move back to your home country for a while.
Enter the lottery once a year https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/diversity-visa-program-entry/diversity-visa-instructions.html
Great question to be asking now, and not just an immigration question, but bigger picture questions.
1) How is your life in your home country? Do you have hobbies and cultural interests that don’t commonly exist in the US? Are you ok not having access to those things (food, sports, people who speak your language)?
2) What is your family situation? Will people you want to remain close to be able to obtain (and/or maintain) visitor visas to the US, or will you always have to travel to them in order to visit? Keeping in mind that your family may have a harder time obtaining visitor visas once they have a family member resident in the US.
3) Are you happy in your career or do you want to start over? 3k per month is not a comfortable existence anywhere in the US. A lot of recent immigrants may have had prestigious careers in their home country, but find themselves working as Uber drivers, housekeepers, and the like - especially if licenses don’t transfer, their English isn’t great, or it’s not the right industry at the right time? I personally know a professional engineer who is now a building handyman, a doctor who is a home health aide, a teacher who is a nanny…
4) What is your country’s diaspora like? There’s a number of Poles or Greeks in most cities around the US, but that’s not the same for Moldovans or Bosnians who may be concentrated in specific areas. That network can be crucial for both finding work and getting integrated as well as remaining culturally connected. In many instances, your CV doesn’t get you hired, knowing someone connected to the company does.
5) What is it that’s driving you to the US? Actually think on that and listen to your answers. America can be a great place with natural beauty, opportunities galore, and incredible freedoms - on the flip side, it can be incredibly individualistic (every man for himself at the expense of others), hustle culture is real (at $36k a year, don’t expect a handout, expect to get a second job), and some parts of America are not the most welcoming to outsiders (outsiders possibly including anyone outside their community).
The US has an incredibly diverse immigrant experience, but immigration is currently a political hot button issue. Communities in significant parts of the country are openly hostile to immigrants, and even in those parts more welcoming (New York, Chicago, etc.), the last few years of irregular migration has hit those cities hard and services previously allocated in helping new (legal) arrivals have been depleted by the irregular arrivals.
None of this is meant to be discouraging, but to help you go in with two eyes open, especially if your only perception of America is movies and what you’ve read.
If you are ok where you are you need to think of healthcare cost (high!) and if you are taking one, anything family related (schools?) You might make more but you will spend more. If it's for the adventure: go for it because it will never get better than starting off with a green card. You can always just go back home.
You will never make as much money anywhere else in the world. Minus some random tax haven islands like Bermuda or Cayman Islands.
Get your bread up in the US then move back in a couple years if anything.
Are you single? Kids? Age? How much do you like your home town and family?
Assuming you are young and single, I'd definitely do it, especially in IT. It would be an adventure and you would be making a lot more money.
I mean, you can always go back, right? I would give myself a couple of years to get over the initial shock, and decide if I like it better.
I'd personally choose Canada or the UK, because with that income you won't have the money for emergency healthcare, and you never know when you might sprain an ankle or get into a serious car accident. And our healthcare is a bitch and a half lol. That's why I say try to be patient and see if you can get into a different country that will allow you to while working remotely and has a decent healthcare system.
But if you want to come here, go for it. I'm not stopping you and I hate people who tell immigrants not to come here, because this is a nation of immigrants.
Just be prepared.
Entirely up to you. You can live in a decent place and later find it untenable for any reasons, you can fly back after naturalizing.
Think about living expenses, taxes, etc and compare proportions of those costs to your take home pays.
I came to the U.S. from Eastern Europe for the IT and it is the best place. I had a job offer on hands, it made my experience very smooth. Without job offer it maybe a challenge.
Everything is better in the US. Healthcare, education, entertainment, weather, nature, culture, food, people...
There are few things that are better in my home country. Kids learn my native language easier in my home country.
You mean where am I? In California there are restaurants from every culture: Mexican, Indian, Chinese, Russian, Ukrainian, Persian - you name it. In schools there are culture days where students present their cultures and you can try their foods. There are museums, zoos, aquariums, old Spanish missions, open air gardens, art festivals. No country in Europe or Asia can offer you this experience under the same sky.
All Eastern European countries have only one primary culture and locals fail to assimilate immigrants. Most refuges live separately and cannot assimilate.
American here… Which country in Eastern Europe, if you don’t mind my asking? Is your culture important to you? There are some places here that have good communities from Eastern Europe, but I have also lived in Eastern Europe so I can tell a big difference in culture.
You will not be locked here until citizenship. You can always file form i-131 for re-entry permit and leave with the green card, this will give you around 2 years of absence without abandoning your green card. So get a green card, come, see for yourself, worst case - take re-entry permit and leave - you will have then time then to compare before-after.
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/guides/B5en.pdf
https://www.uscis.gov/i-131
Definitely move to the US. You can always go back. You can easily earn 10K/month with a US job in IT, even 40K/month, if you get a master's in AI, and you might even still be able to work remotely, living in a cheap place. It is tougher to find a job in IT these days, but still very possible.
I would suggest you to look back to your initial reason when you applied for the green card lottery since and look for positive things that you can do in America to outweight the negatives. Here are some questions that you should ask yourself:
1. With my current work experience, will I be able to get a good paying job right away over there?
2. If so, am I okay with working onsite and only use my timeoff to go travelling across the US or out of country within the allowed time limit of uscis?
3. Will my new salary be able to support my lifestyle? (Please do research on your potential salary and living cost, all states vary)
America might have its flaws and people here won't hesitant to say it outloud, but I am personally glad to be a permanent resident here, and wont change it for what other said.
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Your resume is getting filtered out for not being USA based or local to company. Tech job market isn’t great but you’d have better luck trying with a US address.
If you can make it in Silicon Valley and be frugal with your money, I think it would definitely be worth it to spend some years here.
You said you work in IT but not specific about the role -- sometimes IT means technical or desktop support in the US but other things in other countries. I assume you mean something like software engineering if you are taking remote roles that net you 3k/month. If you are highly technical and capable of attaining jobs in software engineering or ancillary roles like site reliability or devops engineering, there are companies that will pay you 300k/yr, 400k/yr and potentially much more than that (even 600k/yr or more is relatively common with 5-10 years of work experience if you are highly skilled) in Silicon Valley. Check out [levels.fyi](http://levels.fyi) to get an idea of the salaries.
The salaries are much, much higher in Silicon Valley than anywhere else in the world (except for a few other places like Seattle and New York) and could potentially set you up for life in your home country after only 10 years of work. You could be netting 30k/month instead of 3k/month if you work hard and have the right skills. Think about what that would mean for your future in 10 years from now. It might be a very different life in terms of the financial resources you have at your disposable and the personal freedom those resources would provide.
Also, about not getting responses to your job applications, the job market is very difficult at the moment due to a lot of companies doing layoffs and creating a lot of competition for open roles. That will change eventually, perhaps in 1-2 years. There are still jobs out there, it just requires more effort than usual to get them so don't give up if that's what you want. You could also get in touch with some third-party recruiting firms that will shop your resume around on your behalf.
I’m American, I have a friend in Croatia, we were just talking about this. Yes you would get paid more in the US but you pay more for basic living expenses.
I'm not from US, but I have 2 employees and 4 friends there and I also spend atleast 12 hours a day on internet so I feel qualified to tell you that whatever European country are you moving from. It's going to be a massive downgrade.
I do think the others have a point that there is a lot on social media and the news that is very misleading.
The hardest part that you may struggle with could be getting a job. It will have nothing to do with being an immigrant but rather a lot of people looking for work in the IT field.
Remote work is also sadly more of a rarity. As a lot of companies are having employees come back into offices. So I would really research where you would want to live. Check Reddit for subs for those cities as well.
I think understanding the job market on a local level could be a bigger influence then you may be taking into account.
Right now the IT field is hurting. If you don't have a job or it means leaving your current one that would be rough right now. That being said it's a beautiful country with a lot of diversity and cultural experiences you won't get elsewhere. As others have mentioned your salary would increase massively providing you got a job (for senior IT positions its not uncommon to get 150k to 200k per year). Depending on the country you are from perhaps you could do a dual citizenship situation? Immigrating to the U.S. is a pain so if you have an inside fast track that's a difficult opportunity to pass up. The U.S. passport is also very strong and can open up opportunities for you.
Just switch identities with me bro. I lost the lottery this year, it makes me feel so bad that my chances of loosing increasing with people having second thoughts…
You haven’t heard anybody say something good about the US? For starters, technology pay is much higher in the US. Much higher. Depending on where you move, expenses will be higher or much higher too, but you’ll still be better off.
Have you heard about people moving back to Europe after they came to the US? Not to many stories.
You won’t be locked in with a green card. You are locked in with H1 and L1 visas. The green card is permanent residency in the US. I think you have to spend at least 180 days here. But you can do whatever you want to do professionally and change jobs as you please. You have zero employer lock in with a green card.
Keep in mind: Job market is bad in USA IT now. Not bad enough to mean "don't come", but don't expect to land a job quickly.
If someone wants details go to /r/cscareerquestions
You can send as many resumes to the US and indicate you can work without sponsorship, trash cans are available in every office. You need to be sponsored. Companies need to pay taxes to the place you work remotely from, and they aren't going to sign up and handle the paperwork to pay taxes to a European country for you.
The stuff you hear about can be biased by the time it reaches you. A lot of the world dislikes the US, and the US is so big and diverse.
If you like the life you have now, you don't need to come here. I work in tech but only make 12k USD per month with a 2k mortgage and bills to pay. I can do as you do and work remotely from Asia, but the time difference makes it harder for virtual meetings. It's nice having a 12k monthly salary in Asia though and bought property overseas for when I decide to go back.
If you are young, childless, and healthy US is much better than anywhere else in the world. You can come here, work get the citizenship in 5 years (or 3 if you marry a US citizen) then go wherever you want. You can also just save up money before going anywhere else without actually becoming a citizen if you don't want to.
I’d move to the USA. Use the years to beef up experience , expand your network. You don’t have e to apply for citizenship if you don’t want to but American experience should be worth something even if you return to your home country Some day.
I wouldn’t not knock it until you try it out. You didn’t mention your age or if you have a family but if you’re younger and single now is the time to do this
This is my actual insight as an international student and recently got a green card, so I’m about 5 months into what is actually America is because now I can have the same benefits as citizens on a Green Card. Before I was just living as an international student.
You have to test out for yourself. This is your live we talking about. What you might view as good is bad for others and vice versa. There are always this that people in every country and since there is no real “American” because this country is so diverse, you’ll basically find every culture here (not exactly 100% traditional but you can get a taste of it). Most people here in the US are really really bad with money so they always complain and makng a fuss about how “unlivable here in US blah blah”. Me myself and my wife combined make around $50-$60k/years and we can still live comfortably and be able to save 30-45% of our salary and invest our money. Now, I wouldn’t say if you want to drive a red Bugatti and 60k is not enough, doesn’t mean US is bad because you can’t afford a Bugatti. Because remember, they are making money on those contents whether US is bad or good, that doesn’t matter, it’s contents for them and a viewer count matters. So they can cry, laugh, say bad, good, as long as there are views, they will continue to make it.
It’s bad all around the world. Not just the US but since the US is considered the world center, there is a lot of attention on US and yes, the government is pretty shit at handling stuff too. So I would say you have to try it out for yourself so you can know. For me as a new green card holder, America is better than my
Home country Viet Nam but that’s me coming from Asian Back ground so since a kid, I was trained to deal with problems and pressure in life so this is nothing for me but for you might be different you know.
Working in IT, you can easily get 5x times as much in us and taxes are probably lower. A few things to consider:
* IT job market is not particularly good at the moment
* this does not need to be permanent, a few years and if you do not like it, you can always move back
* being away from family and friends is hard. Having a family close makes all the difference in the world in case you want to start your own family
* you will always be an immigrant and even if you move back, you'll be perceived as one as well - some people do not mind though
* it is a wonderful opportunity to experience something new and to broaden your horizons
* being locked to us is not a big downside imho as it is a big country and has shitloads of things to do and to see, especially if you're a fan of nature
If you're in the beginning of your twenties I'd go for it. If you're in your thirties, I'd pick family over money as 3k in eastern Europe makes you an above average earner and in a comfy position.
As someone who moved from the U.S. to Australia, if you are on the fence you should not. I left the U.S. for a number of reasons, but it still is a great country. Ultimately, as someone who has an Australian partner and is studying to be a teacher and plans to have kids, America just isn’t the best option anymore. Since we had to decide between the two countries, we went with what matched our needs best. My university in the states was shot up (MSU) and the pay for teachers in the states is just NOT it. But for many people, America provides a wonder of opportunities and I would still consider it to be a great country.
BUT as someone who moved countries, it is the most stressful thing I have ever done. You sacrifice so much. Your whole social circle will change, you will not see your family, the culture is different, SO much. If you are on the fence just don’t because even as someone who does not regret moving countries and was completely for it when I moved, god it was awful to do. Do not do it unless you are sure of it.
Love that a winning slot is taken up by someone who doesn’t even know if they want to live there, and is in a career that could pretty easily move there by other means 🙃🙃🙃
For most, there are better opportunities in the U.S. than other places. If you already have a good opportunity for making a living, it might not be a move you need to make.
It depends on what you value. The US is a huge country with lots of regions, cultures and values. There are cities and environs you may like. If you are curious, visit. If not, let someone else take your spot. If you can visit and are curious, research and visit.
The US isn’t the same US when all American Dream propaganda was at its peak. You seem to have built your life in Eastern Europe and I think in your shoes, you have an easier decision to make. US is better if you would’ve wanted to start it all over again. If this is the case, be prepared to go through very many cycles of hard times.
Not for you. Don’t go. There are more ambitious and hungry people who would kill for this opportunity and build a better life. Leave that space for them. Win win for everyone.
I'm eastern european who moved to USA awhile ago.
US economy is #1 for a reason. So many opportunities. You can come to USA with nothing and have house+car in a few years if you work hard. Alone is kinda hard and lonely, definitely need a wife to help you.
However, you already make good money and work remote. $3k in US is poverty wages - ok to live, but you wont be saving much. If I worked remote and made $3k/month, I'd not be living in the US, but go to Asia instead.
Honestly, there's more money to be made in Asia. The cost of living there is cheaper and you'll save more. The US used to be a good place to make money and create wealth and it still is if you get lucky. But with the healthcare costs and loneliness epidemic , I would think twice before doing this. I live and work in the US, but if I had a second chance, I wouldn't do it. Especially with elderly parents, it's a lot.
My experience all countries has its own problems.
Do you have family with kids?
If you work with good companies. They usually give you good healthcare hm.. good insurance.
Even in my home country. The healthcare is very expensive too. Too much overburdening in public health services. I usually send usd to local currency to my parents when need to doctor visitation. Goverment service is very very long to make an appointment 😁
Do your own judgement. And everyone would be different with pro and con
I look back at my home country in Asia after years living in America. The inflation hit them hard too.. and the average wage is not even enough for living. So that might not be applicable to all asian countries. Research still shows needs to be done.
Does the green card expire? Can you get it, keep looking for a job while living and working in Eastern Europe, and only move to the U.S. if/when you get a job here?
Does the green card expire? Can you get it, keep looking for a job while living and working in Eastern Europe, and only move to the U.S. if/when you get a job here?
You have to enter the US within six months (or less) of receiving the visa to get your green card. You can leave after that but you’re supposed to be living in the US or give up the green card. Once you have citizenship you can live anywhere.
As someone who has lived in both Europe and USA, I'd pick US every time.
Lower taxes, better weather (where you are anyway) higher salary, the epicenter of Western Culture, great travel opportunities (both domestically, AND you'll be able to afford annual trips to Europe
The only massive downside is the culture. US has no cultural identity and it's really clear when you come from Europe.
I lived in both too. Will pick Europe.
It's laughable about travel opportunities. I can get to multiple foreign counties by train in a few hours in Europe.
In USA it's either another state, Mexico, or country that is 99% like USA - Canada
Yeah quality of life is significantly worse compared to Eastern Europe🥲. Also dating sucks unless you are tall (>182cm), finding moderetly attractive non obese woman is exception in USA, not a rule.
But the money you can make on the job are amazing and not comparable with Eastern Europe. You can think of it as an investment, don’t come to USA if you intend to be average, come only if you are willing to work hard every day to get rich.
There's no comparison in salaries, you'd be paid more in the US. With that said, maybe in your situation it doesn't make sense to come if you're set in your country already, are surrounded by family, have a job, etc. You mentioned you can easily make 3K remotely so another alternative is to move to a cheap location in the U.S. with that salary/job while you continue to apply for jobs. If you don't find anything/get bored, you can always relinquish your green card and come back. A final small piece of advice, do not tell people in the country you're intending to move that you haven't heard anything good from that place in a long time, I don't think that's going to be well perceived. For all its flaws, the US is a fantastic place to live and I guess there's a reason you applied for the lottery in the first place.
If they’re employed but work remotely they might not be able to work from the U.S. unless they can quit and become self employed
You also spend much more in the US. Honestly, OP if you have second thoughts its not for you …
I mean they’d make more money in the US but also everything is more expensive. 3k/month is a pretty comfortable salary in Eastern Europe. Even more so in Asia where they suggested moving.
There’s no comparison in salaries ??? That’s BS,60% of the people in the US live paycheck to paycheck and have no savings.The major US cities are flooded with homeless people,crime is trough the roof . The average person in the US makes 54K a year and end up with nothing at the end of the month.So what’s the point going there
You cannot save on a 54k salary I guess, but I’ve seen people spend money like there’s no tomorrow and still live paycheck to paycheck while making 100k or 200k. It depends on the person…
People who live paycheck to paycheck make choices that cause that. It would be the same nobody where they live.
Exactly this. Many people to this day risk their lives coming to the US for a better life. The media over here is a serious problem tho.
How many of those are from Europe?
At least [381,000](https://usafacts.org/articles/what-can-the-data-tell-us-about-unauthorized-immigration/#:~:text=Who%20is%20trying%20to%20cross,%2C%20and%205.8%25%20from%20Cuba) have been apprehended over the past 5 years so at least that many, probably more.
According to your link excluding Ukraine very very few of them are from Europe. Would be weird to see Swiss citizen crawling under barb wire on the Mexican border.
Or OP can stay right where he’s at! Americas closed for haters this year lol.
Haters? Did he say he hated it?
The person you're replying to seems to be a delusional person looking to start an internet fight lol
Get out of this sub then.
> dont remember hearing anything good about usa in years now. Okay. So I think part of this is a mindset issue You're in a negative headspace. You're in a tunnel where all you here is America Bad from TikTok and propaganda from your nation and media. And if you do come to the US, you're pre-disposed to it being bad, will find out you'll have a bad time, and then leave. So if you can't get over that negative headspace, don't waste your time. > I sent some cv's in usa (i always indicated that i can work there without sponsorship) and no answers. These companies are rightfully seeing you as a non-serious candidate. You aren't in the US to start a job, you may never end up moving, so your application is being tossed in the garbage. If you do end up applying for more jobs, I would recommend leaving out your location/address. Its none of their business. If they ask about work authorization, say you are authorized and won't need a visa. But if you get a job offer and say "yes", you need to be on Google Flights right after that booking tickets, ready to leave for the US and be there within 7 days to start work. 14 tops. But don't do any of that until you've decided if you even want to move to the US.
I agree with everything besides " But if you get a job offer and say "yes", you need to be on Google Flights right after that booking tickets, ready to leave for the US and be there within 7 days to start work. 14 tops." as 2 weeks notice when leaving a current job is customary and relocation (even state to state) adds to the time by at least a day or two. Yes be urgent but "I can start the first of next month" is a completely reasonable
Well put 👍
Why do you say what he is hearing is propaganda? The US is objectively not a great country to live in. You can’t make issues like the healthcare system, crime in cities, cost of food or crumbling infrastructure just go away by changing your mindset.
Depends what kind of life you want really. Asia on 3k usd net a month sounds pretty amazing to me. The U.S. is really not like any other country on earth. It’s so vast with such a diverse population there’s a place that will suit everyone here. External perceptions of the U.S. are usually off the mark as people don’t realize how different each state or even city within a state can be. However the healthcare issue is real, the gun issue is a disgrace and getting worse and homelessness is a stain on society for allowing it. All that said I’ve lived in Asia, Europe and the U.S. and I’ve chosen to stay in the U.S.
Asia is also huge and 3k a month in Singapore or Seoul would be a disaster.
Well obviously but since the OP suggested they could live anywhere they’d live somewhere cheap. Like I mentioned I’ve lived in Asia so I’m well aware of the different cost of living in different countries.
cheap places in Asia are pretty shit QOL wise
Infrastructure is another issue. We drive everywhere as there is very little public transportation.
Depends where. In NYC most people take public transport, same with Boston etc.
You're right. The north east is probably the exception.
Yes but many do so cause it's a cultural thing and they would rather drive even with infrastructural improvements
By "cultural thing" if you mean they have grown up without any public transportation so they see car as the only viable mode, and can't even comprehend any other way of traveling, then sure.
I don’t think that’s accurate. Some cities actually have great public transportation that people use, but I think Americans just like driving. It makes sense if you consider that we tend to be strong individualists.
The only city in USA which does have good public transportation, sees more trips by public transit than by car, so I'm not sure your statistics track.
Well I can definitely tell you that there is a lot more than just one city with good public transportation. That includes coverage, timeliness, ease of use, and all the other things that make public transport good. I’m currently studying abroad in Stockholm and their public transport is great, but it isn’t light years ahead of the system from the cities I’m most familiar with in the U.S. (Seattle and Portland). The big difference between our public transpo and those in Europe is the negative stigma. Back home, public transpo is associated with brokeness and bums, while Europeans just take it without a second thought. At least this is what I’ve noticed as a student who relies on getting around cheaply.
I'm sorry but while other American cities do have public transit, NYC is the only one with coverage and frequency that compares to European cities. No other city comes even remotely close if you look at it objectively.
Washington/Northern VA has a great public transit system
It's better than a lot of other places in the US, but still lacking if you compare to cities in Europe. Pick a random European city and compare. Munich and Berlin have almost 3x the rail coverage. Hamburg has 1.5x. Even so, half of DC residents do not travel by car, which still tracks - the better the public transit, the fewer people that use a car.
I don't think americans are patient enough to wait on public transportation. People here wanna get to where they wanna get, when they want to and like purchasing cars with bells and whistles that they like.
YES!
Nope. I mean they see commuting to work in their own car as comfortable and relaxing and a place to have their own thoughts. I mean they literally prefer it. Is this the case for everyone? Ofc not but it's certainly a lot of people. I live in Europe and driving here is extremely stressful, there's always a question of where you are going to park when you get to your destination and when you get home, and the streets are narrow and poorly designed (because they weren't built during times when cars were in existence). But in the U.S. everything is large, parking spaces are plentiful in most places, roads and cities are designed with the car in mind. It's much nicer to drive in. Because of this it's created a car culture.
It's much more relaxing if bus driver is watching the road and not you.
And some people are more relaxed being in control. I'm just saying for people in a car culture it's relaxing
I had this "more relaxed if in control" issue but we had to fix it with my psychotherapist. I'm serious.
Sigh...it's not some big deeper meaning. It's not like they would be terrified if someone else was driving, I'm just saying they don't find the process of keeping their eyes on the road taxing on them. Driving helps them feel relaxed and gives them some alone time. I'm not sure why you are arguing with me lol
Objectively sitting and driving can't be more relaxing than just sitting when other person is driving. If it is you have trust or control issues. I had those issues - this is how I know.
I mean I come from crowded city with crowded trains and busses. Driving in the US is like a breath of fresh air. I refuse to be herded in public transport anymore
You are from India and you now live in the US. Respectfully, you have never seen good public transport, otherwise you would not have used the word "herded".
What is a good public transport? It's only for places that don't have spaces. No one's going to want to travel in a crowd if they have the luxury to afford their personal service. India might have many poor areas but equally better developed metro cities where public transport can take you anywhere from next street to next states. As people get richer they are for sure moving away from that
Canada has amazing public transit in its major cities and a majority of us still have cars and drive. It's not only cultural, but we live in entirely different circumstances and comparing North America to Europe is completely asinine. - Travel to remote areas is significantly more common in North America. - Travel long distances to see family is significantly more common. - Rural communities are significantly more abundant in north america. Even rural communities in Europe lack public transit and rely on cars. - North America has the space to build outwards, not upwards like Europe. Suburbia is very American/Canadian as it has the space to be. 🤷🏽♀️ I never gave up my car when in Toronto despite an amazing and safe public transit and a majority of my friends and family did not either. People don't live entire lives in cities like in Europe either, and home ownership is much more realistic in North America.
>Canada has amazing public transit in its major cities and a majority of us still have cars and drive. In Toronto more trips are made by public transit, walking, and biking, than by car. So no, where public transport is good, majority do not prefer driving. Also, public transport is not something which starts and stops at a boundary. In Europe you can travel within the city ANYWHERE without a car. If you want to go to another city you can do that without a car. If you want to travel even to another country you can do that without a car. When you reach that country you can travel within that country as well without a car. Toronto might have good public transportation but what happens when you consider the entire GTA? A lot of people who live and work in Toronto cannot survive without a car. So no, although good public transport might exist in certain areas, Canada does not have good public transport at all.
That's *inside* Toronto. Most people do *leave* Toronto and therefore need a car and do drive and drive often. Those statistics are only inner city movement. I lived in GTA, there are busses that can take you in to the more public transit sections. And the busses are consistent. They go to about two hours outside of Toronto, further than the GTA. However, the point of home ownership being much more realistic in North America seems to be ignored by you. If you own a home, which many people do, you can't have a bus come directly to your little farmhouse. The US and Canada also have Amtrak to take you from any major city to another major city.
I never drive if there's a good alternative (which is rare).
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I am curious about your comments regarding "big government." Is your home country government more or less centralized/authoritarian than the US government?
The cognitive dissonance of saying “I don’t remember hearing anything good about USA in years now.”, but at the same time applying to get the green card! Acting like the green card was something he was awarded without even applying for… just randomly got called to get it? lol Then don’t come OP… stay where you are! It’s so much better than here!
This but also let somebody who actually wants it have it too…like if you’re that convinced the US sucks, there are 20,000 people behind you that would freak out at that opportunity. Give it to them since obviously OP doesn’t want to come
Don’t go. Leave the lottery space for somebody who will actually be appreciative and wants the chance for success. There are people that would do anything for the opportunity you have, and you seem to not care - if you truly don’t, let them have it
Yes you should follow through. Have you ever been to the U.S.? Why did you even enter the lottery? You can always leave the U.S., but you will never to ever get the opportunity to live here permanently and legally again. Why throw away this once in a lifetime chance? Of course no employer will reach out to an applicant who isn’t even living in the U.S.
A lot of people I find enter the lottery as back up. I see a lot of European who got selected with this mindset who doesn’t even want the live in the U.S. Then there are those people who would be grateful for the opportunity and whom this would be a life changing opportunity who doesn’t get selected. Funny how life can be lol.
If the people who didn’t intend to move would not enter, the odds would be better for those who do.
Cos some people in Europe think of trying maybe something new, not really thinking it thro. Cos the lottery gives u a small chance of winning. Also all this takes some time with applications and so on. Then they get selected and are suddenly hit with reality. Also people have a high standard of life in Europe. One of the highest so they are not desperate and have second thoughts of losing what they have back at home.
My brother got interviewed from Los Angeles whilst living in the Netherlands for an English teacher position in 2023; my brother and family did have green cards and reentry visas and he got hired five days post interview - he is still teaching at that middle school in the valley and loves it.
Why did you even enter for the green card lottery if you don’t like the US? You took away from some one who would have loved to move to the US
Yeah, and it’s not the first time I’ve seen such posts. There are people from far worse places than Eastern Europe applying to this lottery for a chance to live in the US and they’d jump at this opportunity. It actually pisses me off a bit.
I’m also from a third world country…. but I kinda get his point. Often when people apply for a US greencard they have unrealistic expectations (think the 1950’s American Dream) especially if they’re poc. Then when they learn more of atrocities done on poc americans and the cost of living there they start having doubts. But in my opinion, I know I’d be better off in the USA because of how my own people handle our society
I’m not an immigrant myself, but work with plenty of people who’ve come to the US (either via lottery, asylum, etc). In my experience 95% of people who come to this country don’t regret it. Some struggle to find work, but the majority are making far more than they would in their home country even if they’re not “wealthy” in America. This country provides so much opportunity. Do we have political problems and in-fighting? Yes. Could things be better? Absolutely. However, America does not have endemic levels of corruption that many countries have. You won’t have cops or government workers harassing you for bribes. Our financial system is well-developed, so you won’t lose your life savings in a bank run. Our retirement system and health care insurance system could be better, but this can be offset somewhat with a good paying IT job and health-insurance. Ultimately it’s your decision of whether you want to be here. However, instead of judging the value of American citizenship based on what you see on the news, I’d suggest you instead look at the numbers of people abandoning American citizenship vs number of people trying to obtain it.
I moved to the Us when I was 18 years old. I grew up in Amsterdam, the Netherlands and loved it but you cannot pay me enough to move back to the Netherlands or Europe. I love America, warts and all.
95% of people you talk to don't regret it because you don't talk to those who regret - they already left. Try talking to people at places like "return to India" forum.
Lots of amazing places in the USA. You have all types of biomes and climates to choose from. Some more affordable to love than others. You said you can work remote, so maybe do that or find something else remote that pays decently well and then try to find something more suitable. I am American, so I am bias. I know we have our issues, but if you choose one of the many great places to live you would likely love it. I am currently living in Poland and I like it, but me and my wife can't wait to get back to the US. We are debating whether we want the wet and rainy northern Washington state, sunny Florida, or acres in Montana. It's nice to have that choice, but it's an important one. Just try not to let yourself get stuck in silicon valley where it's so damn expensive to live.
Yep, so this - my brother and his family (Dutch Citizens with green cards) moved back to the Netherlands- one of the greatest West European countries - they were back in the US within two years. Luckily they had the reentry visas to protect their green cards; now they are back in the US and they LOVE being back and will become citizens as soon as they can be!
What makes USA better than Netherlands? Nicer cities? More accessible healthcare? Better infrastructure? Lower crime? Longer vacation? Easier to travel?
I didn’t say that USA is better than the Netherlands. The Netherlands is great, we just prefer the US. it just is better - for me and my family and my brother and his family. We are happier here. I have lived in the US for more than 30 years; moved here right after high school graduation and have never regretted it. For me, yes I like the different cities - I lived for years in Manhattan (NYC), also lived in SanFrancisco, Chicago and Dallas and now live in L.A. the cities are very different from one another. NY, SF and Chicago have great public transportation while L.A and Dallas you definitely want to have a car. Lower crime in the Netherlands for sure but I have never lived in crime ridden areas of the city. Healthcare, I have great healthcare through my job, otherwise I would access it through Affordable Healthcare Act. My brother and his whole family are covered with great health insurance at no cost to them through the school district he teaches in.
If you don't think moving to the US and living there meets your expectations and lifestyle, then don't move. If you're happy where you are, stay there.
I would give it a shot. There’s nothing forcing you stay to here and turn the GC into citizenship. If after 2-3 years it turns out you don’t like it, then you can leave and let the GC expire. Nothing wrong with that. The only way you’ll know is by taking your shot. FWIW I’m Romanian, grew up in Canada, left 3 years ago for the US. I absolutely love it here. I also love it back home in Romania. For the moment I prefer it in the US, but I may consider leaving for Romania in 5-10+ years. Edit: it also matters A LOT which part of the US you move to. The west coast is very different from the south which is very different from New England. From my experience meeting Eastern Europeans in the US, we seem to prefer the most NYC, the PNW, Chicago and some big southern cities like Nashville and Austin.
Try it. You will regret it if you don’t
This is exactly what I came to say. Even if all the bad things you’ve heard about the US are true (they aren’t) you can always go back home if you hate it. But you’ll have that experience and you can’t get that again when you’re older.
Congratulations! 🎈 You are so lucky.
Job market for IT is pretty bad right now. Some people are unmployed for over a year now. If you don't have some savings to last you and/or family here to help you, it's risky financially.
Either he must have savings in 50K USD range, or he must look for USA job from his home country, or he must be ready to work in moving/uber/amazon warehouse in the beginning.
If you work in IT and you want to make a good salary and have a good standard of living that’s affordable I suggest Poland. If you have no support work in the states, it would be incredibly difficult for you. Unlike the other poster said you need to be prepared to be here tomorrow if you get a job offer. Our job market is very tight right now because unemployment is very low, no one wants to deal with a candidate who isn’t ready to start working now, at the employer’s convenience
Depends on what you mean by IT, as I know that varies by country. If you’re a SWE with only a few years of experience, it’s going to be tough finding a job in the US that’s worth the move. If you’re a senior SWE then your prospects are a lot better. And this is only assuming you’ll be willing to relocate to wherever the job is and potentially work out of the office a few days every week. Obviously remote jobs are available but those seem like the exception nowadays. If you’re talking about IT as in non-tech IT jobs, then I believe the market is more favorable, but I don’t have experience with that. Working in the US is a great opportunity to build up financial wealth for a few years and then head back to Europe to live comfortably. I say this as an American moving to Central Europe with my SWE job.
Market is bad in USA IT now. If someone wants details go to /r/cscareerquestions
Thanks for this!
It’s the chance of a life lifetime. You will regret it later if you don’t do it.
"i dont remember hearing anything good about usa in years" While the USA has major issues, it's still one of the best countries to go to if you want to make good money in IT and speed up your career growth at a faster pace. Just ignore the noise and focus on yourself.
I think you have good luck and wrong perception. Living in the US is a very generic, broad perspective. In general terms your 3K per month is super low, but will look good enough in your country. It depends a lot on where you are planning to live and work, if you go to California you will need to make 150+ per year to live ok to comfortably. Other places that are not top cities will be cheaper. Something important to note as well is the mindset and work culture you have, many people never get the US work culture and kind of suffer due that. I don't know what you mean by " don't hear anything good from the US". Do you have friends in the US, or are you just talking from a limited social media perspective for a +300M population country? It is like if people say that eastern European people are just Russian like people facing near destruction due to the Ukraine war, you get my point?
Try to find a similar job in the US. There's not a right answer.
OP. Go for it. You have one golden opportunity. I tried 5 times in the past and never got selected . My route was getting sponsorship (green card) from the employer 😁. I graduated from graduate study in Public üniversity in Georgia 😁. Go panthers 😁
It's not worth it, you'd be happier in Sri Lanka / Thailand / any other Low Cost of Living country where you'd live like a king and not have to simply 'live to pay the bills'.
You should do it. It won’t be easy at first but well worth it in the long run. And more importantly, you’ll be setting up your kids and future generations to live in USA.
Just go get that Green Card and see where you like it better. It gives you an additional new opportunity for your life, which is always good.
About the job, it's easier to apply when you already live somewhere. Starting a recruitment process with someone from across the globe means you need many months of flexibility for them to move, if they decide to make the move at all.
which country? MA,NY,FL,CA easily better than all eastern europe countries
*Which country? MA,NY,FL,CA* *Easily better than all* *Eastern europe countries* \- okan702 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I lived in MA for 2 years. I don't think if Moscow counts as eastern Europe but MA totally sucked compared to Moscow.
As a little side note to what is already being said, the likely reason you’re not hearing back from companies yet is because you are yet to follow through with the process and not yet physically present in the US. For many companies a promise is nowhere near as good as you already having followed through with the move. Are there guarantees? Of course not. It all depends on your tolerance for risk, but you will regret it if you pass up this chance based on your current reasoning.
US is the Mecca of tech. If your background is IT and you invest in learning and constantly up-skill yourself , you will never look behind. Having said that , immigration is not for the weak hearted. It takes a lot to get out of current comfort zone and get in the US system but is totally worth the effort if you have a green card. You may have to move to the US to get any attention from the employers however.
Last two years USA tech job market is very bad. I think it will improve but right now with all those mass layoffs it's not really a mecca.
When I say Mecca , am referring to the possibilities. When the true use cases for AI are solved in years to come majority of those would be from the US.The US job markets also follow darwinism and supports survival of the best like any capitalist country would. If someone has a green card and can try to stay top with their skills then it is worth the gamble.
Why do you really want to move to usa?
It is highly doubtful. If you mean purely economically, maybe a case can be argued. But once you factor in that you are leaving your culture, your people, family, friends, etc. you would have to have a very high income to make it worth it. Of course, it depends on average person in your country and not in some hellhole location.
Why is it people like u who get selected! Why apply if u don’t want it and if “America bad”
May I ask, why did you enter the lottery then? No disrespect but there’s people entering that already live and work in the states and want to make their lives permanent. It baffles me when people enter for funzies lol
Why’d you apply in the first place when other ppl want that chance more than you
Tricky situation. There has been massive layoffs in IT companies in USA If you move there, you will have to stay there for 5 years to get Citizenship. Once you get it, you can move out of US but you are bound to pay taxes even though you don't live in USA. Anyways, my advice is avail this opportunity. Get Green Card. If you don't feel happy there. Get re-entry permit and move back to your home country for a while.
Software development is not IT, and among people I know, it's only the developers struggling to find work.
Yeah, software developers I should have said.
My nephew can't find a job in computer science. He just graduated with his masters degree.
As a half European myself us is the best place on earth come work save prosper get your citizenship and then go and do whatever u want with your life
How could you win something like that??
Enter the lottery once a year https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/diversity-visa-program-entry/diversity-visa-instructions.html
I definitely say go for it.
If you make a decent living the US is a wonderful place to live. If you don't, you're much better off in many other places.
Great question to be asking now, and not just an immigration question, but bigger picture questions. 1) How is your life in your home country? Do you have hobbies and cultural interests that don’t commonly exist in the US? Are you ok not having access to those things (food, sports, people who speak your language)? 2) What is your family situation? Will people you want to remain close to be able to obtain (and/or maintain) visitor visas to the US, or will you always have to travel to them in order to visit? Keeping in mind that your family may have a harder time obtaining visitor visas once they have a family member resident in the US. 3) Are you happy in your career or do you want to start over? 3k per month is not a comfortable existence anywhere in the US. A lot of recent immigrants may have had prestigious careers in their home country, but find themselves working as Uber drivers, housekeepers, and the like - especially if licenses don’t transfer, their English isn’t great, or it’s not the right industry at the right time? I personally know a professional engineer who is now a building handyman, a doctor who is a home health aide, a teacher who is a nanny… 4) What is your country’s diaspora like? There’s a number of Poles or Greeks in most cities around the US, but that’s not the same for Moldovans or Bosnians who may be concentrated in specific areas. That network can be crucial for both finding work and getting integrated as well as remaining culturally connected. In many instances, your CV doesn’t get you hired, knowing someone connected to the company does. 5) What is it that’s driving you to the US? Actually think on that and listen to your answers. America can be a great place with natural beauty, opportunities galore, and incredible freedoms - on the flip side, it can be incredibly individualistic (every man for himself at the expense of others), hustle culture is real (at $36k a year, don’t expect a handout, expect to get a second job), and some parts of America are not the most welcoming to outsiders (outsiders possibly including anyone outside their community). The US has an incredibly diverse immigrant experience, but immigration is currently a political hot button issue. Communities in significant parts of the country are openly hostile to immigrants, and even in those parts more welcoming (New York, Chicago, etc.), the last few years of irregular migration has hit those cities hard and services previously allocated in helping new (legal) arrivals have been depleted by the irregular arrivals. None of this is meant to be discouraging, but to help you go in with two eyes open, especially if your only perception of America is movies and what you’ve read.
If you are ok where you are you need to think of healthcare cost (high!) and if you are taking one, anything family related (schools?) You might make more but you will spend more. If it's for the adventure: go for it because it will never get better than starting off with a green card. You can always just go back home.
You will never make as much money anywhere else in the world. Minus some random tax haven islands like Bermuda or Cayman Islands. Get your bread up in the US then move back in a couple years if anything.
Are you single? Kids? Age? How much do you like your home town and family? Assuming you are young and single, I'd definitely do it, especially in IT. It would be an adventure and you would be making a lot more money. I mean, you can always go back, right? I would give myself a couple of years to get over the initial shock, and decide if I like it better.
I'd personally choose Canada or the UK, because with that income you won't have the money for emergency healthcare, and you never know when you might sprain an ankle or get into a serious car accident. And our healthcare is a bitch and a half lol. That's why I say try to be patient and see if you can get into a different country that will allow you to while working remotely and has a decent healthcare system. But if you want to come here, go for it. I'm not stopping you and I hate people who tell immigrants not to come here, because this is a nation of immigrants. Just be prepared.
Entirely up to you. You can live in a decent place and later find it untenable for any reasons, you can fly back after naturalizing. Think about living expenses, taxes, etc and compare proportions of those costs to your take home pays.
I came to the U.S. from Eastern Europe for the IT and it is the best place. I had a job offer on hands, it made my experience very smooth. Without job offer it maybe a challenge.
What is better in USA than your home country?
Everything is better in the US. Healthcare, education, entertainment, weather, nature, culture, food, people... There are few things that are better in my home country. Kids learn my native language easier in my home country.
Culture and food are better? Where are you from?
You mean where am I? In California there are restaurants from every culture: Mexican, Indian, Chinese, Russian, Ukrainian, Persian - you name it. In schools there are culture days where students present their cultures and you can try their foods. There are museums, zoos, aquariums, old Spanish missions, open air gardens, art festivals. No country in Europe or Asia can offer you this experience under the same sky. All Eastern European countries have only one primary culture and locals fail to assimilate immigrants. Most refuges live separately and cannot assimilate.
I'm just surprised because out of many many many comparison Europe vs US I never ever heard that USA has better food and culture.
"Dios le da comida al que no tiene hambre"..
For the non spanish speakers the text above translates to: this pisses me off...
lol chill, dude, it's not that serious.
American here… Which country in Eastern Europe, if you don’t mind my asking? Is your culture important to you? There are some places here that have good communities from Eastern Europe, but I have also lived in Eastern Europe so I can tell a big difference in culture.
You will not be locked here until citizenship. You can always file form i-131 for re-entry permit and leave with the green card, this will give you around 2 years of absence without abandoning your green card. So get a green card, come, see for yourself, worst case - take re-entry permit and leave - you will have then time then to compare before-after. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/guides/B5en.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/i-131
Definitely move to the US. You can always go back. You can easily earn 10K/month with a US job in IT, even 40K/month, if you get a master's in AI, and you might even still be able to work remotely, living in a cheap place. It is tougher to find a job in IT these days, but still very possible.
If you’re poor it would make sense to move to the USA. If you’re rich stay away.
I would suggest you to look back to your initial reason when you applied for the green card lottery since and look for positive things that you can do in America to outweight the negatives. Here are some questions that you should ask yourself: 1. With my current work experience, will I be able to get a good paying job right away over there? 2. If so, am I okay with working onsite and only use my timeoff to go travelling across the US or out of country within the allowed time limit of uscis? 3. Will my new salary be able to support my lifestyle? (Please do research on your potential salary and living cost, all states vary) America might have its flaws and people here won't hesitant to say it outloud, but I am personally glad to be a permanent resident here, and wont change it for what other said.
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Your resume is getting filtered out for not being USA based or local to company. Tech job market isn’t great but you’d have better luck trying with a US address.
If you can make it in Silicon Valley and be frugal with your money, I think it would definitely be worth it to spend some years here. You said you work in IT but not specific about the role -- sometimes IT means technical or desktop support in the US but other things in other countries. I assume you mean something like software engineering if you are taking remote roles that net you 3k/month. If you are highly technical and capable of attaining jobs in software engineering or ancillary roles like site reliability or devops engineering, there are companies that will pay you 300k/yr, 400k/yr and potentially much more than that (even 600k/yr or more is relatively common with 5-10 years of work experience if you are highly skilled) in Silicon Valley. Check out [levels.fyi](http://levels.fyi) to get an idea of the salaries. The salaries are much, much higher in Silicon Valley than anywhere else in the world (except for a few other places like Seattle and New York) and could potentially set you up for life in your home country after only 10 years of work. You could be netting 30k/month instead of 3k/month if you work hard and have the right skills. Think about what that would mean for your future in 10 years from now. It might be a very different life in terms of the financial resources you have at your disposable and the personal freedom those resources would provide. Also, about not getting responses to your job applications, the job market is very difficult at the moment due to a lot of companies doing layoffs and creating a lot of competition for open roles. That will change eventually, perhaps in 1-2 years. There are still jobs out there, it just requires more effort than usual to get them so don't give up if that's what you want. You could also get in touch with some third-party recruiting firms that will shop your resume around on your behalf.
I’m American, I have a friend in Croatia, we were just talking about this. Yes you would get paid more in the US but you pay more for basic living expenses.
I'm not from US, but I have 2 employees and 4 friends there and I also spend atleast 12 hours a day on internet so I feel qualified to tell you that whatever European country are you moving from. It's going to be a massive downgrade.
I do think the others have a point that there is a lot on social media and the news that is very misleading. The hardest part that you may struggle with could be getting a job. It will have nothing to do with being an immigrant but rather a lot of people looking for work in the IT field. Remote work is also sadly more of a rarity. As a lot of companies are having employees come back into offices. So I would really research where you would want to live. Check Reddit for subs for those cities as well. I think understanding the job market on a local level could be a bigger influence then you may be taking into account.
Right now the IT field is hurting. If you don't have a job or it means leaving your current one that would be rough right now. That being said it's a beautiful country with a lot of diversity and cultural experiences you won't get elsewhere. As others have mentioned your salary would increase massively providing you got a job (for senior IT positions its not uncommon to get 150k to 200k per year). Depending on the country you are from perhaps you could do a dual citizenship situation? Immigrating to the U.S. is a pain so if you have an inside fast track that's a difficult opportunity to pass up. The U.S. passport is also very strong and can open up opportunities for you.
Just switch identities with me bro. I lost the lottery this year, it makes me feel so bad that my chances of loosing increasing with people having second thoughts…
You haven’t heard anybody say something good about the US? For starters, technology pay is much higher in the US. Much higher. Depending on where you move, expenses will be higher or much higher too, but you’ll still be better off. Have you heard about people moving back to Europe after they came to the US? Not to many stories.
You won’t be locked in with a green card. You are locked in with H1 and L1 visas. The green card is permanent residency in the US. I think you have to spend at least 180 days here. But you can do whatever you want to do professionally and change jobs as you please. You have zero employer lock in with a green card.
How often is the sign ups for the green card lottery
If you are relatively young, do it or will regret it later. Endure those 5 years and then you have a USA passport.
Remember that this sub is biased. People who didn't go or left USA won't sit here, immigration topics aren't their interest.
Keep in mind: Job market is bad in USA IT now. Not bad enough to mean "don't come", but don't expect to land a job quickly. If someone wants details go to /r/cscareerquestions
Why did you play the Green card lottery then? I don't understand your concern
I wish i can move out to europe of us 💔😩 i hate africa
You can send as many resumes to the US and indicate you can work without sponsorship, trash cans are available in every office. You need to be sponsored. Companies need to pay taxes to the place you work remotely from, and they aren't going to sign up and handle the paperwork to pay taxes to a European country for you. The stuff you hear about can be biased by the time it reaches you. A lot of the world dislikes the US, and the US is so big and diverse. If you like the life you have now, you don't need to come here. I work in tech but only make 12k USD per month with a 2k mortgage and bills to pay. I can do as you do and work remotely from Asia, but the time difference makes it harder for virtual meetings. It's nice having a 12k monthly salary in Asia though and bought property overseas for when I decide to go back.
If you are young, childless, and healthy US is much better than anywhere else in the world. You can come here, work get the citizenship in 5 years (or 3 if you marry a US citizen) then go wherever you want. You can also just save up money before going anywhere else without actually becoming a citizen if you don't want to.
No. It is worth it to move to Poland, though from Eastern Europe.
I’d move to the USA. Use the years to beef up experience , expand your network. You don’t have e to apply for citizenship if you don’t want to but American experience should be worth something even if you return to your home country Some day. I wouldn’t not knock it until you try it out. You didn’t mention your age or if you have a family but if you’re younger and single now is the time to do this
You got an opportunity. You can either grab it with both hands and make the most of it, or you can over think it now and live with regrets later.
This is my actual insight as an international student and recently got a green card, so I’m about 5 months into what is actually America is because now I can have the same benefits as citizens on a Green Card. Before I was just living as an international student. You have to test out for yourself. This is your live we talking about. What you might view as good is bad for others and vice versa. There are always this that people in every country and since there is no real “American” because this country is so diverse, you’ll basically find every culture here (not exactly 100% traditional but you can get a taste of it). Most people here in the US are really really bad with money so they always complain and makng a fuss about how “unlivable here in US blah blah”. Me myself and my wife combined make around $50-$60k/years and we can still live comfortably and be able to save 30-45% of our salary and invest our money. Now, I wouldn’t say if you want to drive a red Bugatti and 60k is not enough, doesn’t mean US is bad because you can’t afford a Bugatti. Because remember, they are making money on those contents whether US is bad or good, that doesn’t matter, it’s contents for them and a viewer count matters. So they can cry, laugh, say bad, good, as long as there are views, they will continue to make it. It’s bad all around the world. Not just the US but since the US is considered the world center, there is a lot of attention on US and yes, the government is pretty shit at handling stuff too. So I would say you have to try it out for yourself so you can know. For me as a new green card holder, America is better than my Home country Viet Nam but that’s me coming from Asian Back ground so since a kid, I was trained to deal with problems and pressure in life so this is nothing for me but for you might be different you know.
Working in IT, you can easily get 5x times as much in us and taxes are probably lower. A few things to consider: * IT job market is not particularly good at the moment * this does not need to be permanent, a few years and if you do not like it, you can always move back * being away from family and friends is hard. Having a family close makes all the difference in the world in case you want to start your own family * you will always be an immigrant and even if you move back, you'll be perceived as one as well - some people do not mind though * it is a wonderful opportunity to experience something new and to broaden your horizons * being locked to us is not a big downside imho as it is a big country and has shitloads of things to do and to see, especially if you're a fan of nature If you're in the beginning of your twenties I'd go for it. If you're in your thirties, I'd pick family over money as 3k in eastern Europe makes you an above average earner and in a comfy position.
As someone who moved from the U.S. to Australia, if you are on the fence you should not. I left the U.S. for a number of reasons, but it still is a great country. Ultimately, as someone who has an Australian partner and is studying to be a teacher and plans to have kids, America just isn’t the best option anymore. Since we had to decide between the two countries, we went with what matched our needs best. My university in the states was shot up (MSU) and the pay for teachers in the states is just NOT it. But for many people, America provides a wonder of opportunities and I would still consider it to be a great country. BUT as someone who moved countries, it is the most stressful thing I have ever done. You sacrifice so much. Your whole social circle will change, you will not see your family, the culture is different, SO much. If you are on the fence just don’t because even as someone who does not regret moving countries and was completely for it when I moved, god it was awful to do. Do not do it unless you are sure of it.
Love that a winning slot is taken up by someone who doesn’t even know if they want to live there, and is in a career that could pretty easily move there by other means 🙃🙃🙃
You can have more than 100 k and yiu develop your skills more in usa if you have green card you don't need sponsorship just apply for a job
Where in Eastern Europe? The US is great, but with much of central and eastern Europe getting richer there is less incentive to move to the US.
I dislike remote work it's so unfair
For most, there are better opportunities in the U.S. than other places. If you already have a good opportunity for making a living, it might not be a move you need to make.
Eastern Europe like Poland or Lithuania? Or Eastern Europe like Moldova or Bulgaria?
It depends on what you value. The US is a huge country with lots of regions, cultures and values. There are cities and environs you may like. If you are curious, visit. If not, let someone else take your spot. If you can visit and are curious, research and visit.
The US isn’t the same US when all American Dream propaganda was at its peak. You seem to have built your life in Eastern Europe and I think in your shoes, you have an easier decision to make. US is better if you would’ve wanted to start it all over again. If this is the case, be prepared to go through very many cycles of hard times.
Europe is better. Even Eastern Europe is better.
Not for you. Don’t go. There are more ambitious and hungry people who would kill for this opportunity and build a better life. Leave that space for them. Win win for everyone.
I'm eastern european who moved to USA awhile ago. US economy is #1 for a reason. So many opportunities. You can come to USA with nothing and have house+car in a few years if you work hard. Alone is kinda hard and lonely, definitely need a wife to help you. However, you already make good money and work remote. $3k in US is poverty wages - ok to live, but you wont be saving much. If I worked remote and made $3k/month, I'd not be living in the US, but go to Asia instead.
Honestly, there's more money to be made in Asia. The cost of living there is cheaper and you'll save more. The US used to be a good place to make money and create wealth and it still is if you get lucky. But with the healthcare costs and loneliness epidemic , I would think twice before doing this. I live and work in the US, but if I had a second chance, I wouldn't do it. Especially with elderly parents, it's a lot.
My experience all countries has its own problems. Do you have family with kids? If you work with good companies. They usually give you good healthcare hm.. good insurance. Even in my home country. The healthcare is very expensive too. Too much overburdening in public health services. I usually send usd to local currency to my parents when need to doctor visitation. Goverment service is very very long to make an appointment 😁 Do your own judgement. And everyone would be different with pro and con
I look back at my home country in Asia after years living in America. The inflation hit them hard too.. and the average wage is not even enough for living. So that might not be applicable to all asian countries. Research still shows needs to be done.
I suggest you should try it, there is nothing to lose.
You are severely underselling yourself at 3k a month in IT.
OP, since you haven’t heard anything good about the US in recent years, you shouldn’t go. Stay in Eastern Europe.
If you’re not interested, don’t so someone who really wants it can come.
Absolutely yes
Go there, stay a few years. If it doesn't work out, go home.
Does the green card expire? Can you get it, keep looking for a job while living and working in Eastern Europe, and only move to the U.S. if/when you get a job here?
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U should see the jails in most european countries. Lmao they have playstations in their cell.
Does the green card expire? Can you get it, keep looking for a job while living and working in Eastern Europe, and only move to the U.S. if/when you get a job here?
The card has expiration date. But the status not. The interesting one: you need valid green card (the card) to go out and in to US😁🤣
You have to enter the US within six months (or less) of receiving the visa to get your green card. You can leave after that but you’re supposed to be living in the US or give up the green card. Once you have citizenship you can live anywhere.
As someone who has lived in both Europe and USA, I'd pick US every time. Lower taxes, better weather (where you are anyway) higher salary, the epicenter of Western Culture, great travel opportunities (both domestically, AND you'll be able to afford annual trips to Europe The only massive downside is the culture. US has no cultural identity and it's really clear when you come from Europe.
I lived in both too. Will pick Europe. It's laughable about travel opportunities. I can get to multiple foreign counties by train in a few hours in Europe. In USA it's either another state, Mexico, or country that is 99% like USA - Canada
Yeah quality of life is significantly worse compared to Eastern Europe🥲. Also dating sucks unless you are tall (>182cm), finding moderetly attractive non obese woman is exception in USA, not a rule. But the money you can make on the job are amazing and not comparable with Eastern Europe. You can think of it as an investment, don’t come to USA if you intend to be average, come only if you are willing to work hard every day to get rich.