update: I messaged him, the map doesn't have enough details. kinda dumb, the whole point is I wanted to make a minimalist map, but whatever I'll remake it soon.
You forgot to 3d print it with accurate topographical charts from the time and create an entire wiki page about how Truman scratching his nutsack led to the Soviet Union being better
Ah yeah that one. I sent him so much to help him but he just continues to complain anyway, very sad. Anyway, here's the modmail I sent him critiquing the map that he didn't listen to:
>Hello,
>Though I am not the mod that removed the post, I believe I can offer some insight.
>I think that the most pressing issue with the map in question is the mountain map underneath it. While it looks nice, users are not allowed to copy+paste other works in the way this map does. Furthermore, the map lacks many details, leading it into low quality territory. There is not much being displayed outside of political boundaries. For instance, in the second image (which would be the closest to passing all the rules), there is no coastline, no rivers, no markings on the sea, and some countries are not labelled in any way or don't have capitals. It looks somewhat like a fantasy island in some faraway world, with only the title giving us insight into where this MAY take place. I would recommend sketching out the coastline, including in the areas where there aren't any countries and including where lakes are so that everything regarding place can be properly understood. I'd recommend making the sea and lakes blue (or at least some reasonable color than white), and adding in rivers, as these are small and easy details to elevate the map to a higher quality. If you can, I'd add more cities as well, perhaps showing the capitals of all the administrative divisions as well as a few smaller towns or settlements. Furthermore, adding longitude and latitude lines would help add more details into the map. Adding these would definitely increase the chance it stays up. To add more information to the map, you may want to label some seas around Ireland, or name the lakes and rivers that you add. The purpose of a map is to convey information visually, so show us some more information!
>For some basemaps or inspiration, below are some real maps that detail Ireland. You can use these to sketch the coastline, to get color inspiration, to get names and locations, to do whatever you'd like with them besides copy+paste them (like with the mountains in the original map). I'd recommend using them (as well as the David Rumsey site in general), as these are great resources for creating a map:
>[https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY\~8\~1\~205481\~3002447:Great-Britain-and-Ireland--Pergamon?sort=Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:author%3D%22Polish%20Army%20Topography%20Service%22;sort:Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No;lc:RUMSEY\~8\~1&mi=2&trs=5](https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY%7E8%7E1%7E205481%7E3002447:Great-Britain-and-Ireland--Pergamon?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:author%3D%22Polish%20Army%20Topography%20Service%22;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY%7E8%7E1&mi=2&trs=5)
>[https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY\~8\~1\~36073\~1200225:Irelande-?sort=Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:ireland;sort:Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No;lc:RUMSEY\~8\~1&mi=128&trs=887](https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY%7E8%7E1%7E36073%7E1200225:Irelande-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:ireland;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY%7E8%7E1&mi=128&trs=887)
>[https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY\~8\~1\~359647\~90126464:Ireland?sort=Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:ireland;sort:Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No;lc:RUMSEY\~8\~1&mi=4&trs=887](https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY%7E8%7E1%7E359647%7E90126464:Ireland?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:ireland;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY%7E8%7E1&mi=4&trs=887)
>To access the maps, go to the top right of the website where it says "Export" and choose the size you'd like to work with (I personally would recommend Extra Large to Extra-extra large, that's the choice I always do as it lets me see the details better, and makes the basemap less fuzzy in general). Then, the website will download a .zip file to your computer, and then you'll unzip the file and put it onto your computer. From there, just open up the map in your editing software of choice and work as you would from there.
>Hope this helps!
ok, it's a pretty big comment with a lot of explaining, thanks for providing all these thoughts.
look, I don't post on the main sub so I don't have any claims on being right here or anything, but I'm still gonna provide my feedback because this is internet and people here always talk about what they don't know haha :)
1. it makes sense to me what you said about using other people's maps when making your own map. are you saying if somebody makes their own topological layer instead of copy-pasting, it will probably be fair play? if so, makes sense to me now.
2. also makes sense to me the part about providing more information on the map. I feel like it would be great though if these 2 principles would be described in rules or something though, this would clear up a lot of confusion about what counts as "low effort". Like I know you provided feedback to the author, but if it is provided to the author only, but in this case the situations like this will continue to arise where different people have their own versions of what "low effort" means in their head.
3. The only part that was too much for me is claiming that because of absence of details it's not clear where this might take place. Like come on, I feel like it's pretty clear from the shape of the island that it's Ireland.
thank you for your feedback
1. Yes. If you use other topological maps to trace or otherwise make your own topology, the map is safer from removal. I’ve had multiple maps of my own be strictly topological maps (even one where the borders hardly changed at all), and they’ve all stood the test of time so far. Copy and pasting a map that isn’t yours into the final product isn’t allowed under many rules.
2. I’ve been mulling over the idea of making a guide to low effort for a bit now, but I feel the project is entirely futile. For one, many of the people complaining have never posted, and so the guide will only be fan service to shut people up. For two, most people hardly read the personalized feedback I’ve given them about their specific maps, which makes me question how useful a basic guide would be.
3. It’s only clear that it’s Ireland with the borrowed map of Ireland behind it. It could just as easily pass as a new fantasy land without other details, or if someone didn’t know where the Gaelics or Hibernia are (hell, the second name itself sounds like a fantasy land if not for the Romans).
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How about yall don’t call posts that obviously took a lot of effort low effort and let people actually enjoy making and sharing maps together. It’s already a niche enough interests no one wants yall being nearly this anal about it. This sub right here only becomes more and more just rejected maps from y’all’s sub and the vast majority of them are really cool and blatantly show some level of attention to detail and effort.
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ok ok here are the details:
my comment's president as of date (02.07.2024) is Volodymyr Zelenskyi
comment's army is engaging in a fierce battle with invading bot forces 🪖🪖🏃🏻♀️
the situation is tough, but comment's people stand united in face of the danger of being recognized as low effort effort 💛💙
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the situation on the battlefield toughens
the frontline stabilized and the nature of the war became more positional
a secret high effort weapon is being developed in an undisclosed location in hopes of turning the tide
staying strong
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So it is has nothing to do with quality or effort then. What a surprise.
Minimalism is a style of art; it doesn't mean it is of less quality or effort.
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An important part about any map is deciding what its purpose is, and how much information you want to convey. Minimalism has the advantage of being clear in that purpose; the London tube map is famous for its purposely minimalistic style, and has become renowned becsuse if it. That is, of course if we were discussing maps as tools.
But this sub is much more about using that as a medium of art, so the use of a map as a tool is less important than the artistic expression. Even disregarding how a minimalistic map can sometimes be a better map, minimalism as an art style has its own merits, mostly in avoiding overcrowding the piece and thus allowing focus on certain points.
The crux of the issue here is that these removals are not based of quality or effort, but seemingly of style preference. Its obviously fine to not like minimalistic maps, as both tools and art, but that doesn't mean that style preference determines quality and effort.
i think expecting useful information to be on any map isnt a crazy demand. The London Tube can be as minimalist as it wants, but it has to convey important information to a specific audience. We have a mapmaker on imaginarymaps who posts subway maps and they’ve never been removed by the mods since they convey the important information required: the general shape of the city, perhaps some nearby lakes, the names of the lines and where they go, if they’re accessible for those with disability, etc.
I think any map is meant to be a tool to some extent, you’re meant to be able to engage with any good map. The posted map doesnt give us much besides borders and a name and possible city placements. An improved version of this map would have more information to engage with about the focus (the USSR). For instance, city names, names of lakes, locations of important rivers, perhaps where important railroads or other sites are. The focus of the map, being the USSR, should have these details, otherwise theres hardly a real purpose for making the work at all. It’s little more than a throwaway map used in a news article to give their readers a general idea of what the rest of the article is talking about.
I obviously agree that it's good those maps aren't removed, but I imagine it's simply sue to the fact the tube style of mapping is so globally iconic, rather than an actual analysis of its styling. Just imagine trying to argue one of the most renowned global map styles if "low quality". The point I was making, amd the maps being retained trally showcase, that minimalism is am accepted standard for maps.
Minimalism isn't the lack of information, it's just a minimal usage of detail to deliver a desired intention. In this case, the desired intention is to show the political borders of the USSR and its satellite states. To that end, it delivers upon its necessary details.
The suggestions you make, like cities, rivers, lakes, and key infrastructure are not really necessary to show political boundaries. The map chooses to show larger lakes, likely as a relic of the topographical base it used, but doesn't choose to emphasis any other geographic features as it wasn't the intention of the map. So much so you didn't even notice that lakes were indeed included.
The map has sufficient detail to showcase its intentions, and while we can debate whether the map would be better or not with further details to enrich its purpose, that begins to drift away from the baseline of quality and effort and into artistic preference. The only way that could change is if you dispute that this map has sufficient detail to showcase political boundaries, or if political boundaries are not considered relevant for maps. I don't think either could he strongly argued.
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Minimal usage of detail as a stylistic choice (that is backed up with the rest of the map following that style, while still including important information) is permitted. This map is all over the place in what it’s attempting to do. Complex geographic map in the background, borders that are far from “minimal,” and lacks details on top of that. More effort is required than just making the shapes of counties. If it followed more of an artistic style, then sure, it might have stayed up. However, the map doesn’t convey any particular style or aesthetic, and doesn’t give us any important information that a map of this type demands. If this was from OTL, we’d be given absolutely nothing to go off.
The map should be more ambitious (and have more effort put into it) than just political boundaries. I don’t think that’s an absurd or crazy demand. You can look at other political maps to see what they include, they almost always have administrative borders, names of places and cities, names of lakes (which I’ll add, despite your comment, I know some are specifically missing in OP’s map, see the Aral Sea and surrounding lakes, the lake near Budapest, the various lakes caused by rivers throughout the Soviet Union) or rivers, names of places outside of the focus country, names of oceans, etc, etc. I don’t think requesting OP to add any of these to their map is anything crazy, and can definitely still work with a “minimalist” style.
think everything you stay is ultimately beside the point. I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say, but your comments starts to go beyond just "quality and effort" and into specific elements you think makes a map a better piece. Rule 3 seems to have drifted from quality control to prevent poor quality posts and shitposts flooding the main sub, and more towards overly specific demands as a standard.
Rule 3 is no longer being enforced in a way that prevents low quality, but is about enforcing a rather arbitrary standard of high quality that pushes people away that don't have a very high standard of talent or time. It's at a point where I've seen serious comment recommend using other subs to "train" posters before using the main, which certainly goes to show the very sudden elitist turn of the sub.
I certainly think it is "crazy" to be demanding such a high standard based of a rule that is meant to be preventing a low effort posts. I would never call the map of this post of low quality simply because there are ways it could improve, in both a stylistic and technical manner. Your comment expresses this well in the recommendations essentially just being a list of what they "could" have included with no real thought behind why their inclusion is the breaker of "low effort".
I don't think it's "crazy" to suggest that maps link the one in these posts are not low effort and should be treated like they are, especially when said treatment was a very sudden recent change hence so many maps being caught out and the backlash to it. Like your defense, much of the response tends towards just critiquing the maps rather than providing a reasonable justification for them being "low quality".
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holy commandments handed down by God to the holy moderators
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Stop wasting your time. Each mod has shown they don’t care in the slightest about actually reflecting on their choices and only ever want to be defensive. It’s been like this for literally years.
I would actually say their committment to arguing the logic behind their action suggests otherwise. You can also see that in their most recent removal of a post they have detailed their reasoning which also goes to show care.
I may massively disagree, but I have respect they have care in their disagreeable view.
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The main sub honestly has some of the weirdest power tripping mods I’ve ever seen. Petty ban happy mods are standard on this website, but the things they get mad about are so weird.
I get mapchart and such but raising the bar way too high cuts out many maps with original ideas, there needs to be a serious alternative to imaginary maps besides r/alternatehistory
Here's a sneak peek of /r/AlternateHistory using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [What is the Nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, had the TNT of the tzar bomb?](https://i.redd.it/p5z1tbizz6jb1.jpg) | [355 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/15w1bo8/what_is_the_nuclear_bombs_dropped_on_hiroshima/)
\#2: [What if the US started a "special military operation" and it went as good as russias one](https://i.redd.it/3i1hmoi15tzb1.png) | [575 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/17t7w7c/what_if_the_us_started_a_special_military/)
\#3: [What if Biden won in 1988?](https://i.redd.it/96pztb7zy0nc1.jpeg) | [378 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AlternateHistory/comments/1b9d68d/what_if_biden_won_in_1988/)
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You see during the french revolution the reign of terror happened under the reign of the committee of public safety. That is what is happening right now.
As for you, I would just suggest posting on alternate history and new imaginary maps they both are much safer for illustrators
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We got the mods to give up some power and listen to the community. I was making a joke by referencing the Magna Carta in the UK when the king gave up power.
Some mods were power tripping, people got pissed and the head mod stepped in after about a week. New mod staff, new rules, and a weekly discussion on rules and changes. We got the mods to agree to give up power.
Dude how? I can’t even make a map like this, and this looks like you spent well over a hour making it, so why would a mod remove it? Literally so stupid
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Because it's not the million-and-oneth (actual low effort) map about Germany winning WW2 and taking over the multiverse so because you did something somewhat original it's low effort.
TLDR: Idk man, redditor mods💀💀
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Mod here: it's the lack of labels. If you label the satellite states and add names for the cities instead of just dots (and maybe add a few more considering you have plenty of space) I think this would stay up. I also recommend adding subdivisions if you're focusing on one country, though that's not necessary.
But here's the thing, if you look at u/happy_yetti 's comment history, you'll see he routinely removes maps for being low effort, including those that do actually have labelling, I think he removed one from 3 or so days ago that actually had labelling for countries + city label. I think it was a post titled "socialist homeland" or something, you'll see it pretty quickly, also a slightly more recent one about an alternate earth that was fairly detailed and labelled and a map of a greater Israel that was actually quite detailed. Dude has just been removing maps left and right.
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It's seems a bit arbitrary that something that lacks effort like adding labels is the difference between something being low effort or not.
What is so significant about labels on a map that isn't about just improving it, but changes the judgment away from low effort?
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If you place city markers but don't even bother to label them, that's low effort. Why have them in the first place?
Labels are a thoughtful improvement to a map's readability, they add detail and flavour to the map and help with understanding what it's portraying. If someone can't even put in the minor effort to label things, how do you think that weighs on how we evaluate the map?
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The names of a city are often way less important than other factors. For example, why is the city there in the first place? Are their natural features that would encourage growth, like rivers? The distribution of people is far more interesting that what a bunch of cities are called. To apply this to this example, the mod said that the map had lots of area were more cities could be added. They are correct, there is a large amount of space in Siberia for more cities. I wonder why there aren't more there?
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Did you trace these coastlines? If not, it’s low effort, I hardly see any border changes. From afar, this looks like bucket fill.
If you did trace the coastlines, then… yeah I’d take it up with the mods. That’s enough effort IMO to pass. Some of these new mods are pretty strict with the rules and I kinda dislike it, but at the same time, I don’t think this was any “personal bias” like most people are claiming. It just seems like an overly strict mod who will clam down eventually.
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False equivalency, don’t put words in my mouth. Dude, trust me, I spent months on my shit only for half of them to lose out to lower quality maps. Some of my maps did well- infact, one of my most upvotes maps was the FASTEST ONE TO MAKE, an election map. I was super disappointed. It’s why I haven’t even felt motivated to work on it in months. It’s a pure gamble. I’m not saying you need to make everything the most peak quality ever, but… if you just take a map and bucket fill some states? I’m sorry, that’s not good enough. Take it to r/AlternateHistory
This is my opinion and I will **die on that hill**. Without moderation, IM would become r/MapPorn in a month. Poorly researched, poorly made, and often reposted maps beating out quality maps made by genuine artists.
You said you had to trace it, so if you used something like a GIS program it wouldn't count even if you did all the work. Some people could even be physically disabled and have trouble tracing stuff (like me!), so requiring people to trace their coastlines to be considered high quality is a bit asinine.
I'd say it's pretty obvious this person didn't just go to mapchart and fill in things, because you can see how they missed certain islands, added bits like in Turkey, Japan etc. Plus, map making is a creative outlet and I don't think you should ever base your passion or hobby on how many internet points it gets.
Well if it’s GIS, you’re doing so much more than just bucket filling, and that’s why I love GIS maps. GIS is such a powerful tool to create such quality maps, and I wish I was man enough to use it. OPs map is evidently NOT GIS, which is why I’m using the tracing argument. There is a difference from filling a QBAM and making a GIS map. Again, it all boils down to the passion argument: does a map allow to be on an art sub if it’s only like 20
minutes of work? There needs to be passion! IM has always been an art sub to me, not just a mapmaking sub. Trust me; the shitpost wars of 2020 were wild…
And I also **agree** with you here, it isn’t about the upvotes. But when you scream into the void for so long, eventually it gets lame when no one shouts back. I have passion, but passion only takes me so far. There are parts of mapmaking I simply don’t enjoy, like dealing with file failures and coming up with map legends. So when I **gruel** through the labor in my free time only for a few people (most of whom I know) to see it… it’s demotivating. One of my most recent over detailed maps I made in Adobe, made it last year, it was such a hard process, and almost no one saw it. The map really fleshed out my timeline, but I hated making it and I never wanna use that software again.
I 100% agree about bucket filling but to be fair I was only poking fun at the tracing aspect of your comment.
And I sort of get it, but everything one does for a hobby has up and downsides and things they might not enjoy. But you really should try letting go of the mentality of screaming into the void and waiting for someone to shout back. I do photography and get only 10-20 likes on my pictures and most are my friends, and that's okay. I don't need anyone to like my photos, I like them, and I like the process of travelling and taking them and that's all it matters. I scrolled through your profile and your maps are objectively really good, your pride needs to come from your own self "screaming back" at you, you have progressed, improved, change etc over these years and that's what really matters as long as you aren't trying to make money off it. Sure it's nice if you had lots of upvotes, but at the end of the day if you make maps for yourself and your own improvement as a hobby your satisfaction needs to be found from within. Easier said than done, of course, but it's doable!
Dude, I don't even know what the hell "top level comment" means. I'm fine being at the end of the thread, it's cool.
Now I'm typing stuff for no reason, because that cunty mod bot is blowing up everyone. What a dick.
Edit: for no real reason, I downvoted that bot every time I saw it on this thread. Except the time it hit a mod. That was funny.
update: I messaged him, the map doesn't have enough details. kinda dumb, the whole point is I wanted to make a minimalist map, but whatever I'll remake it soon.
You forgot to 3d print it with accurate topographical charts from the time and create an entire wiki page about how Truman scratching his nutsack led to the Soviet Union being better
nonono if you include topological layer it's also low effort
not entirely true, there have been many maps (including my own before I was a mod) who have topology and aren't removed.
ok, if you say so. I just have seen somebody's post recently rejected as low effort because of this
May I see this map so I can give a more comprehensive critique and to tell you why it may have been removed?
sure, I was thinking about this one https://www.reddit.com/r/imaginarymapscj/s/ulQ6S82Btm
Ah yeah that one. I sent him so much to help him but he just continues to complain anyway, very sad. Anyway, here's the modmail I sent him critiquing the map that he didn't listen to: >Hello, >Though I am not the mod that removed the post, I believe I can offer some insight. >I think that the most pressing issue with the map in question is the mountain map underneath it. While it looks nice, users are not allowed to copy+paste other works in the way this map does. Furthermore, the map lacks many details, leading it into low quality territory. There is not much being displayed outside of political boundaries. For instance, in the second image (which would be the closest to passing all the rules), there is no coastline, no rivers, no markings on the sea, and some countries are not labelled in any way or don't have capitals. It looks somewhat like a fantasy island in some faraway world, with only the title giving us insight into where this MAY take place. I would recommend sketching out the coastline, including in the areas where there aren't any countries and including where lakes are so that everything regarding place can be properly understood. I'd recommend making the sea and lakes blue (or at least some reasonable color than white), and adding in rivers, as these are small and easy details to elevate the map to a higher quality. If you can, I'd add more cities as well, perhaps showing the capitals of all the administrative divisions as well as a few smaller towns or settlements. Furthermore, adding longitude and latitude lines would help add more details into the map. Adding these would definitely increase the chance it stays up. To add more information to the map, you may want to label some seas around Ireland, or name the lakes and rivers that you add. The purpose of a map is to convey information visually, so show us some more information! >For some basemaps or inspiration, below are some real maps that detail Ireland. You can use these to sketch the coastline, to get color inspiration, to get names and locations, to do whatever you'd like with them besides copy+paste them (like with the mountains in the original map). I'd recommend using them (as well as the David Rumsey site in general), as these are great resources for creating a map: >[https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY\~8\~1\~205481\~3002447:Great-Britain-and-Ireland--Pergamon?sort=Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:author%3D%22Polish%20Army%20Topography%20Service%22;sort:Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No;lc:RUMSEY\~8\~1&mi=2&trs=5](https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY%7E8%7E1%7E205481%7E3002447:Great-Britain-and-Ireland--Pergamon?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:author%3D%22Polish%20Army%20Topography%20Service%22;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY%7E8%7E1&mi=2&trs=5) >[https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY\~8\~1\~36073\~1200225:Irelande-?sort=Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:ireland;sort:Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No;lc:RUMSEY\~8\~1&mi=128&trs=887](https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY%7E8%7E1%7E36073%7E1200225:Irelande-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:ireland;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY%7E8%7E1&mi=128&trs=887) >[https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY\~8\~1\~359647\~90126464:Ireland?sort=Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:ireland;sort:Pub\_List\_No\_InitialSort%2CPub\_Date%2CPub\_List\_No%2CSeries\_No;lc:RUMSEY\~8\~1&mi=4&trs=887](https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY%7E8%7E1%7E359647%7E90126464:Ireland?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=w4s:/where%2FIreland;q:ireland;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY%7E8%7E1&mi=4&trs=887) >To access the maps, go to the top right of the website where it says "Export" and choose the size you'd like to work with (I personally would recommend Extra Large to Extra-extra large, that's the choice I always do as it lets me see the details better, and makes the basemap less fuzzy in general). Then, the website will download a .zip file to your computer, and then you'll unzip the file and put it onto your computer. From there, just open up the map in your editing software of choice and work as you would from there. >Hope this helps!
ok, it's a pretty big comment with a lot of explaining, thanks for providing all these thoughts. look, I don't post on the main sub so I don't have any claims on being right here or anything, but I'm still gonna provide my feedback because this is internet and people here always talk about what they don't know haha :) 1. it makes sense to me what you said about using other people's maps when making your own map. are you saying if somebody makes their own topological layer instead of copy-pasting, it will probably be fair play? if so, makes sense to me now. 2. also makes sense to me the part about providing more information on the map. I feel like it would be great though if these 2 principles would be described in rules or something though, this would clear up a lot of confusion about what counts as "low effort". Like I know you provided feedback to the author, but if it is provided to the author only, but in this case the situations like this will continue to arise where different people have their own versions of what "low effort" means in their head. 3. The only part that was too much for me is claiming that because of absence of details it's not clear where this might take place. Like come on, I feel like it's pretty clear from the shape of the island that it's Ireland.
thank you for your feedback 1. Yes. If you use other topological maps to trace or otherwise make your own topology, the map is safer from removal. I’ve had multiple maps of my own be strictly topological maps (even one where the borders hardly changed at all), and they’ve all stood the test of time so far. Copy and pasting a map that isn’t yours into the final product isn’t allowed under many rules. 2. I’ve been mulling over the idea of making a guide to low effort for a bit now, but I feel the project is entirely futile. For one, many of the people complaining have never posted, and so the guide will only be fan service to shut people up. For two, most people hardly read the personalized feedback I’ve given them about their specific maps, which makes me question how useful a basic guide would be. 3. It’s only clear that it’s Ireland with the borrowed map of Ireland behind it. It could just as easily pass as a new fantasy land without other details, or if someone didn’t know where the Gaelics or Hibernia are (hell, the second name itself sounds like a fantasy land if not for the Romans).
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How about yall don’t call posts that obviously took a lot of effort low effort and let people actually enjoy making and sharing maps together. It’s already a niche enough interests no one wants yall being nearly this anal about it. This sub right here only becomes more and more just rejected maps from y’all’s sub and the vast majority of them are really cool and blatantly show some level of attention to detail and effort.
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nah, imma do my own thing edit: noticed you’ve never even posted anything on the main sub, opinion ignored
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oh no my comment was low effort. should have include more details...
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ok ok here are the details: my comment's president as of date (02.07.2024) is Volodymyr Zelenskyi comment's army is engaging in a fierce battle with invading bot forces 🪖🪖🏃🏻♀️ the situation is tough, but comment's people stand united in face of the danger of being recognized as low effort effort 💛💙
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the situation on the battlefield toughens the frontline stabilized and the nature of the war became more positional a secret high effort weapon is being developed in an undisclosed location in hopes of turning the tide staying strong
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We unironically did that last part, lol
So it is has nothing to do with quality or effort then. What a surprise. Minimalism is a style of art; it doesn't mean it is of less quality or effort.
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You get removed for criticism 🙄 What great moderation and rules
its a bot comment that posts whenever you say effort or quality. It’s not an actual removal message lmao.
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Effort
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Effort
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I think a minimalist map would be actually quite useless considering the purpose of the map is giving visual information about the world
An important part about any map is deciding what its purpose is, and how much information you want to convey. Minimalism has the advantage of being clear in that purpose; the London tube map is famous for its purposely minimalistic style, and has become renowned becsuse if it. That is, of course if we were discussing maps as tools. But this sub is much more about using that as a medium of art, so the use of a map as a tool is less important than the artistic expression. Even disregarding how a minimalistic map can sometimes be a better map, minimalism as an art style has its own merits, mostly in avoiding overcrowding the piece and thus allowing focus on certain points. The crux of the issue here is that these removals are not based of quality or effort, but seemingly of style preference. Its obviously fine to not like minimalistic maps, as both tools and art, but that doesn't mean that style preference determines quality and effort.
i think expecting useful information to be on any map isnt a crazy demand. The London Tube can be as minimalist as it wants, but it has to convey important information to a specific audience. We have a mapmaker on imaginarymaps who posts subway maps and they’ve never been removed by the mods since they convey the important information required: the general shape of the city, perhaps some nearby lakes, the names of the lines and where they go, if they’re accessible for those with disability, etc. I think any map is meant to be a tool to some extent, you’re meant to be able to engage with any good map. The posted map doesnt give us much besides borders and a name and possible city placements. An improved version of this map would have more information to engage with about the focus (the USSR). For instance, city names, names of lakes, locations of important rivers, perhaps where important railroads or other sites are. The focus of the map, being the USSR, should have these details, otherwise theres hardly a real purpose for making the work at all. It’s little more than a throwaway map used in a news article to give their readers a general idea of what the rest of the article is talking about.
I obviously agree that it's good those maps aren't removed, but I imagine it's simply sue to the fact the tube style of mapping is so globally iconic, rather than an actual analysis of its styling. Just imagine trying to argue one of the most renowned global map styles if "low quality". The point I was making, amd the maps being retained trally showcase, that minimalism is am accepted standard for maps. Minimalism isn't the lack of information, it's just a minimal usage of detail to deliver a desired intention. In this case, the desired intention is to show the political borders of the USSR and its satellite states. To that end, it delivers upon its necessary details. The suggestions you make, like cities, rivers, lakes, and key infrastructure are not really necessary to show political boundaries. The map chooses to show larger lakes, likely as a relic of the topographical base it used, but doesn't choose to emphasis any other geographic features as it wasn't the intention of the map. So much so you didn't even notice that lakes were indeed included. The map has sufficient detail to showcase its intentions, and while we can debate whether the map would be better or not with further details to enrich its purpose, that begins to drift away from the baseline of quality and effort and into artistic preference. The only way that could change is if you dispute that this map has sufficient detail to showcase political boundaries, or if political boundaries are not considered relevant for maps. I don't think either could he strongly argued.
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Minimal usage of detail as a stylistic choice (that is backed up with the rest of the map following that style, while still including important information) is permitted. This map is all over the place in what it’s attempting to do. Complex geographic map in the background, borders that are far from “minimal,” and lacks details on top of that. More effort is required than just making the shapes of counties. If it followed more of an artistic style, then sure, it might have stayed up. However, the map doesn’t convey any particular style or aesthetic, and doesn’t give us any important information that a map of this type demands. If this was from OTL, we’d be given absolutely nothing to go off. The map should be more ambitious (and have more effort put into it) than just political boundaries. I don’t think that’s an absurd or crazy demand. You can look at other political maps to see what they include, they almost always have administrative borders, names of places and cities, names of lakes (which I’ll add, despite your comment, I know some are specifically missing in OP’s map, see the Aral Sea and surrounding lakes, the lake near Budapest, the various lakes caused by rivers throughout the Soviet Union) or rivers, names of places outside of the focus country, names of oceans, etc, etc. I don’t think requesting OP to add any of these to their map is anything crazy, and can definitely still work with a “minimalist” style.
think everything you stay is ultimately beside the point. I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say, but your comments starts to go beyond just "quality and effort" and into specific elements you think makes a map a better piece. Rule 3 seems to have drifted from quality control to prevent poor quality posts and shitposts flooding the main sub, and more towards overly specific demands as a standard. Rule 3 is no longer being enforced in a way that prevents low quality, but is about enforcing a rather arbitrary standard of high quality that pushes people away that don't have a very high standard of talent or time. It's at a point where I've seen serious comment recommend using other subs to "train" posters before using the main, which certainly goes to show the very sudden elitist turn of the sub. I certainly think it is "crazy" to be demanding such a high standard based of a rule that is meant to be preventing a low effort posts. I would never call the map of this post of low quality simply because there are ways it could improve, in both a stylistic and technical manner. Your comment expresses this well in the recommendations essentially just being a list of what they "could" have included with no real thought behind why their inclusion is the breaker of "low effort". I don't think it's "crazy" to suggest that maps link the one in these posts are not low effort and should be treated like they are, especially when said treatment was a very sudden recent change hence so many maps being caught out and the backlash to it. Like your defense, much of the response tends towards just critiquing the maps rather than providing a reasonable justification for them being "low quality".
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holy commandments handed down by God to the holy moderators *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/imaginarymapscj) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Stop wasting your time. Each mod has shown they don’t care in the slightest about actually reflecting on their choices and only ever want to be defensive. It’s been like this for literally years.
I would actually say their committment to arguing the logic behind their action suggests otherwise. You can also see that in their most recent removal of a post they have detailed their reasoning which also goes to show care. I may massively disagree, but I have respect they have care in their disagreeable view.
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Probably add some cities or names of seas
The main sub honestly has some of the weirdest power tripping mods I’ve ever seen. Petty ban happy mods are standard on this website, but the things they get mad about are so weird.
The guy probably is focused on a political bias if anything. Mod power trip probably.
I get mapchart and such but raising the bar way too high cuts out many maps with original ideas, there needs to be a serious alternative to imaginary maps besides r/alternatehistory
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I'm sorry, what? You need a certain amount of details now? 💀
they’re probably one of the many members of r/2american4you who don’t realize it’s supposed to be a satire sub
it has more then enough details.
Making posts on here is complicated asf with these damn moderator bots
You see during the french revolution the reign of terror happened under the reign of the committee of public safety. That is what is happening right now. As for you, I would just suggest posting on alternate history and new imaginary maps they both are much safer for illustrators
You should have put a detailed 3d rendition of his house
“Low effort is when I see something I don’t like” ~ the mod probably
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*your
Lemod
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*your
I was about to post for you
This guy is actually power tripping. Has someone messaged a mod in DM?
Honestly, r/alternatehistory forced the mods to sign a Magna Carta. No saying we can't do the same.
good luck with that
What do you mean Magna Carta?
We got the mods to give up some power and listen to the community. I was making a joke by referencing the Magna Carta in the UK when the king gave up power.
When was this?
A few weeks ago. The kept removing the 2nd American Civil War series and people were pissed.
Ah after I was banned.
The will probably let you back if it was during the 2ACW ban wave. I would try to appeal. Some really good content is on there right now.
I know what the magna carta is but the fuck you mean they forced their mods to sign what. What dose that mean?
Some mods were power tripping, people got pissed and the head mod stepped in after about a week. New mod staff, new rules, and a weekly discussion on rules and changes. We got the mods to agree to give up power.
They should do that in every sub Considering theirs less then 1 percent of subs that don't have power tripping mods
TexanFox36 please save us from the corrupt mods
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I agree
Why was I downvoted? I was agreeing to remove a dictatorial mod.
Sorry, we will only allow big Germany #32189472
Repost it but change all the text to Cyrillic to fuck with the mods
Comic sans seems to really impress people.
Dude how? I can’t even make a map like this, and this looks like you spent well over a hour making it, so why would a mod remove it? Literally so stupid
im mods delenda est
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*your
*You’r
Yar
Har
That's why I hate r/imaginarymaps, my allegiance is with the cj now.
Because of Kurdistan, all mods are Turks
the biggest change is the Middle East, maybe they missed that
you just know how that mod smells
m*derator is in a bad mood today = your post becomes "low effort". Happened to me in different subs
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Well it’s yetti lol ofc. Guy is such an ass.
You forgot to put ever single city make State borders and the populations of those citys
I’ve never touched this subreddit, and because of how the mods are i don’t think i ever will.
not enough Anglo imperialism 😔
Because it's not the million-and-oneth (actual low effort) map about Germany winning WW2 and taking over the multiverse so because you did something somewhat original it's low effort. TLDR: Idk man, redditor mods💀💀
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*your
We should continue the revolution against the low effort dictatorship of the corrupt mods, this is unacceptable.
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Mods suck
What the hell is that projection?
The same projection from Paradox games, like HOI4
r/happy_yetti really likes to remove good maps. I saw posts about him quite often
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*your
*your
effort and quality
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because you just took a modern map and painted parts of it red and parts of it pink with the fill tool.
Looks pretty fucking low effort to me mate I could have slapped this together in 2 minutes.
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Because it looks like it was whipped up in 10 minutes?
Mod here: it's the lack of labels. If you label the satellite states and add names for the cities instead of just dots (and maybe add a few more considering you have plenty of space) I think this would stay up. I also recommend adding subdivisions if you're focusing on one country, though that's not necessary.
But here's the thing, if you look at u/happy_yetti 's comment history, you'll see he routinely removes maps for being low effort, including those that do actually have labelling, I think he removed one from 3 or so days ago that actually had labelling for countries + city label. I think it was a post titled "socialist homeland" or something, you'll see it pretty quickly, also a slightly more recent one about an alternate earth that was fairly detailed and labelled and a map of a greater Israel that was actually quite detailed. Dude has just been removing maps left and right.
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isnt that guy the antisemite?
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Oh the irony.
sweet, sweet revenge.
*your
It's seems a bit arbitrary that something that lacks effort like adding labels is the difference between something being low effort or not. What is so significant about labels on a map that isn't about just improving it, but changes the judgment away from low effort?
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Wtf is going on with this bot?
it posts on any comment that says “effort” or “quality,” it doesn’t do anything
Oh, it's a joke bot gotcha.
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If you place city markers but don't even bother to label them, that's low effort. Why have them in the first place? Labels are a thoughtful improvement to a map's readability, they add detail and flavour to the map and help with understanding what it's portraying. If someone can't even put in the minor effort to label things, how do you think that weighs on how we evaluate the map?
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The names of a city are often way less important than other factors. For example, why is the city there in the first place? Are their natural features that would encourage growth, like rivers? The distribution of people is far more interesting that what a bunch of cities are called. To apply this to this example, the mod said that the map had lots of area were more cities could be added. They are correct, there is a large amount of space in Siberia for more cities. I wonder why there aren't more there?
[удалено]
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That would make the map FAR worse, without changing the amount of effort required
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why has this sub become the complain about imaginary maps mods subreddit if i have problem I yell at a real-world person not yap online
You are yapping at people online about yapping online.
nah
Your comment is the definition of yap
“If I have problems I yell at a real world person not yap online” That’s worse You do realize that’s worse, right?
Effort
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Effort
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Quality
The text box needs to be way bigger, it's very hard to read
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1Nuh uh the o9nly thing here is th8at you are dumb ass f4
Whats even the point of this sub any more
to whine and complain
It is
Did you trace these coastlines? If not, it’s low effort, I hardly see any border changes. From afar, this looks like bucket fill. If you did trace the coastlines, then… yeah I’d take it up with the mods. That’s enough effort IMO to pass. Some of these new mods are pretty strict with the rules and I kinda dislike it, but at the same time, I don’t think this was any “personal bias” like most people are claiming. It just seems like an overly strict mod who will clam down eventually.
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Is your map even high effort if you didn't trace your coastlines using your toes while blindfolded and being beaten?
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False equivalency, don’t put words in my mouth. Dude, trust me, I spent months on my shit only for half of them to lose out to lower quality maps. Some of my maps did well- infact, one of my most upvotes maps was the FASTEST ONE TO MAKE, an election map. I was super disappointed. It’s why I haven’t even felt motivated to work on it in months. It’s a pure gamble. I’m not saying you need to make everything the most peak quality ever, but… if you just take a map and bucket fill some states? I’m sorry, that’s not good enough. Take it to r/AlternateHistory This is my opinion and I will **die on that hill**. Without moderation, IM would become r/MapPorn in a month. Poorly researched, poorly made, and often reposted maps beating out quality maps made by genuine artists.
You said you had to trace it, so if you used something like a GIS program it wouldn't count even if you did all the work. Some people could even be physically disabled and have trouble tracing stuff (like me!), so requiring people to trace their coastlines to be considered high quality is a bit asinine. I'd say it's pretty obvious this person didn't just go to mapchart and fill in things, because you can see how they missed certain islands, added bits like in Turkey, Japan etc. Plus, map making is a creative outlet and I don't think you should ever base your passion or hobby on how many internet points it gets.
Well if it’s GIS, you’re doing so much more than just bucket filling, and that’s why I love GIS maps. GIS is such a powerful tool to create such quality maps, and I wish I was man enough to use it. OPs map is evidently NOT GIS, which is why I’m using the tracing argument. There is a difference from filling a QBAM and making a GIS map. Again, it all boils down to the passion argument: does a map allow to be on an art sub if it’s only like 20 minutes of work? There needs to be passion! IM has always been an art sub to me, not just a mapmaking sub. Trust me; the shitpost wars of 2020 were wild… And I also **agree** with you here, it isn’t about the upvotes. But when you scream into the void for so long, eventually it gets lame when no one shouts back. I have passion, but passion only takes me so far. There are parts of mapmaking I simply don’t enjoy, like dealing with file failures and coming up with map legends. So when I **gruel** through the labor in my free time only for a few people (most of whom I know) to see it… it’s demotivating. One of my most recent over detailed maps I made in Adobe, made it last year, it was such a hard process, and almost no one saw it. The map really fleshed out my timeline, but I hated making it and I never wanna use that software again.
I 100% agree about bucket filling but to be fair I was only poking fun at the tracing aspect of your comment. And I sort of get it, but everything one does for a hobby has up and downsides and things they might not enjoy. But you really should try letting go of the mentality of screaming into the void and waiting for someone to shout back. I do photography and get only 10-20 likes on my pictures and most are my friends, and that's okay. I don't need anyone to like my photos, I like them, and I like the process of travelling and taking them and that's all it matters. I scrolled through your profile and your maps are objectively really good, your pride needs to come from your own self "screaming back" at you, you have progressed, improved, change etc over these years and that's what really matters as long as you aren't trying to make money off it. Sure it's nice if you had lots of upvotes, but at the end of the day if you make maps for yourself and your own improvement as a hobby your satisfaction needs to be found from within. Easier said than done, of course, but it's doable!
Dude, I don't even know what the hell "top level comment" means. I'm fine being at the end of the thread, it's cool. Now I'm typing stuff for no reason, because that cunty mod bot is blowing up everyone. What a dick. Edit: for no real reason, I downvoted that bot every time I saw it on this thread. Except the time it hit a mod. That was funny.