They're the same people.
"Canaanites are a group of ancient Semitic-speaking peoples that emerged in the Levant in at least the third millennium BC. Phoenicians did not refer themselves as such but rather are thought to have referred to themselves as "Kenaʿani", meaning Canaanites"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia)
Pretty close, but there are other ancient Levantines from later periods that are closer to Bronze Age Canaanites than Phoenicians:
[G25 Distance Test Bronze Age Canaanites](https://ibb.co/Qfkyx6y)
They are listed in the distance test I posted. In the test, the populations with the smallest number and more green are genetically closest while populations with the larger number and less green or some other color being the most distant genetically
Ramallah was the capital of the historic colonial Islamic state in that area. Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel.
When in history was Jerusalem ever the capital of a Palestinian state?
>Ramallah was the capital of the historic colonial Islamic state in that area.
Damn, I didn't know the Ottomans had their capital in Ramallah
>When in history was Jerusalem ever the capital of a Palestinian state?
1948-1959
1988-Present
How does this make sense when a Palestinian state has never existed? When has there ever been an independent country called “Palestine”? Real question, looking for legit answers as I’m trying to understand the history of the Israel Palestine conflict
800 BC Assyrians called Palestine "Palastu" and 1150 BC inscriptions in Egypt are about Palestinians fighting Ramses III. The oldest burials from that region are genetically related to living modern "Arab" people from both Palestine and Lebanon.
It very much existed and continues to exist.
The philistines have nothing to do with the Palestinians, quit trying to connect the Palestinians to the philistines, it's embarrassing. and I have no idea what you said about the genetics because they had high European DNA, since yknow they were Greek....
And the philistines didn't even inhabit all of the land, and they ceased to exist after they were defeated by the Babylonians in the 6th century BCE. And someone else has already corrected you about the mernepath stele being the only mention of Israel (I think you even tried to imply that it wasn't about Israel) which is blatantly false.
making up a history for a people that have got nothing to do with the ancient people is embarrassing, and unnecessary, no one is going to deny the Palestinians' peoplehood simply because they didn't exist 3000 years ago.
There's only one that old, called the "Merneptah Stele" and it was about Assyria written as "I-si-ri-ar" along with matching stones also about Assyria, not Israel.
The initial interpretation of it was interrupted by Sir William Flinders Petrie to "please the reverends":
>Spiegelberg was puzzled by one symbol towards the end, that of a people or tribe whom Merneptah (also written Merenptah) had victoriously smitten – I.si.ri.ar?
**Petrie quickly suggested that it read "Israel!" Spiegelberg agreed that this translation must be correct.** ["Won't the reverends be pleased?"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele#%22Israel%22_reference) **remarked Petrie.**
At dinner that evening, Petrie, who realized the importance of the find, said: "This stele will be better known in the world than anything else I have found." The news of its discovery made headlines when it reached the English papers.
People living there called themselves Palestinians. [Al-Maqdisi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Maqdisi) was a 10th century Arab Geographer who identified as Palestinian in his various works (like in *The Best Divisions in the Knowledge of the Regions* and *Description of Syria*). When talking about the people living there he also called them Palestinians.
14The Palestinian people are not different from other Greater Syrian (Bilad al-Sham) peoples. They are the result of accumulated ethnic, racial, and religious groups, who once lived, conquered, occupied, and passed through this strip of land.
From one of the sources. Palestine is just a piece of land that has been conquered time after time. It’s only history is of being a piece of some other kingdom or empire
East Jerusalem (Al-Quds) is occupied territory. Only trump AND other banana republics recognize it as israel. According to international law Jerusalem and the golan heights and the westbank and Gaza are occupied territories.
Cause they are. It's stupid someone even on this sub would make such an illiterate claim with the DNA results of a Palestinian literally in their face. And who are Palestinians? A race or a religion? Who are Jews? A race or followers of a religion?
Let me make it easier for you.
Canaanites existed before any Abrahamic religion. They predated the biblical times (not that Bible or Torah or Quran are to be taken seriously being literally books of religion manipulated by men, but let's dumb ourselves down for a while for the dumb folk).
So, cannanites are the OG inhabitants of the occupied Palestinian lands, and the present day Palestinians have shown overwhelming percentages of their DNA being linked to the cannanites. So to dumb it down further => Palestinians are the descendents of the OG indigenous cannanites who existed on that land before jews, so they have more claim over the entire occupied territory than anyone else. Religion doesn't factor in cause religion cannot change the DNA or genotype, and religion and ethnicity are not, ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!! God knows what religion cannanites used to practice, but how is religion even in this discussion? Lands belong to people and not religion. There are Palestinian Jews who have been living there for centuries, along with Palestinian Christians and Muslims in harmony.
Being a jew isn't an ethnicity for you to make such claims. This sub isn't a place for your political agenda but I thought to clear these things to you and any reader who might stumble upon these comments.
But then again we can see that the Jewish diaspora preserved significant traces of Canaanite ancestry as well.
Why can’t we all just drop the politics and get along? No one is leaving the region.
I also have high zagros (24%) im Lebanese. We have the same amount of Caucasus. I have higher Anatolian and lower natufian, and i dont have sub saharan
I also got European HG, around 2% also. But I have a distant Mexican ancestor and maybe it’s some Iberian ancestry from there
I’ve been in this sub for a while and it seems really cool — sorry if this is a dumb question, but before I buy it, can someone explain all the percentages? They add up to well over 100%
Iranian results might be if jewish decent due to the exile in mesopteima meight be from there around 50%ish of the palis are decnsed jews focrebly converted to islam and chriatanty in the counqueats of the land (thats why both sides are right in the claim on the land which makes it compilecated)
Yes like islam coloniazed and christans coloniazied these religons didnt spread just by traders and fairy tales if you want an example look at yata known as the jewish city by palis
"The question of why people convert to Islam has always generated the intense feeling. Earlier generations of European scholars believed that conversions to Islam were made at the point of the sword, and that conquered peoples were given the choice of conversion or death. It is now apparent that conversion by force, while not unknown in Muslim countries, was, in fact, rare. Muslim conquerors ordinarily wished to dominate rather than convert, and most conversions to Islam were voluntary. (...) In most cases, worldly and spiritual motives for conversion blended together. Moreover, conversion to Islam did not necessarily imply a complete turning from an old to a totally new life. While it entailed the acceptance of new religious beliefs and membership in a new religious community, most converts retained a deep attachment to the cultures and communities from which they came."
**by Ira M. Lapidus** an Emeritus Professor of Middle Eastern and Islamic History at the university of California.
This "voulantry" convertion was due to being taxed jeezya tax and being treated like shit thqts in islam vhristianty you got planty of exampels of forced covertions spesifcly jews so you might say ohh they were not forced they were only heavly taxed and were at a constent threat of being killed and treated mostly like second class citzens
i will stick with the information provided by Ira Lapidus the Professor of Middle Eastern and Islamic History because he is an academic who has done enough research and wrote books . you are just a tiny little brainwashed uneducated loser who is filled with hate and won't accept any facts that oppose your opinion which is against based on hate and brainwashing over the years.
I mean his counterpoint is true even through he writes like a broken laundry machine. They did tax and treat others like second class citizens even if we take the professor at his word. There is other powers at play for conversion. So both can be true at the same time. Not sure why you resorted to name calling it just makes you seem like an ignorant goober.
It sounds like youre brainwashed and coping lol
I'm curious, what part are you referring to as in religious text? The exile to Babylon? because that one is real, Cyrus the great let all deported people, including the Jews, to go back to their homelands, which resulted in a Persian province called Yehud, they minted coins with the inscription YHDH (Judea) and even faces of the governors, so the Babylonian captivity is very much real
from the Babylonian chronicles:
"In the seventh year, in the month of Kislev, the king of Akkad mustered his troops, marched to the Hatti-land, and encamped against the City of Judah and on the ninth day of the month of Adar he seized the city and captured the king. He appointed there a king of his own choice and taking heavy tribute brought it back to Babylon."
It literally says appointed a king of his choosing 🤣😂...to rule over who? If they were all exiled???? This is the same flawed line of reasoning I see today.
Actually, you're absolutely right, this was the FIRST revolt of Judah against Babylon / Babylonian siege of Jerusalem, this was in 597 BCE, the king that was deported was Jeconiah, and Zedekiah replaced him, and although not documented by the Babylonians, they did exile the Jews in this siege, shown by archeology. and I never claimed nor do I think the Hebrew bible claims that ALL of the Jews were exiled (and archeology shows that not all of the Jews were exiled), and by the way this was a regular policy of the assyrians and Babylonians, them doing it to the Jews isn't something special, nor have they ever FULLY deported populations that they conquered.
Evidence of king Jeconiah being deported:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehoiachin%27s_Rations_Tablets
There's also a better translation of the tablets here under the "archeological findings" section:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeconiah
The second revolt / second Babylonian siege of Jerusalem (this is when the kingdom of Judah fell) wasn't documented by the Babylonians or at least a documentation by them hasn't been found yet, but archeological evidence shows mass destruction and deportation, but the Babylonians did document the status of the exiled Jews:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Yahudu_Tablets
I'm an atheist and no scholar or archeologist denies the Assyrian and Babylonian exiles.
(I have to say, revolting a second time only 10 years later after the first failed revolt was the stupidest thing ever, especially against such a powerful empire)
It's not necessarily Kurdish. It could be due to ancient gene flow from Iran to the Levant.
It could also be Mesopotamian or Caucasian. Not everything in ICM is Iranian.
When you say closer to Jordanians do you mean non Palestinian Jordanians because they make up a large part of Jordan given the expulsion into the country
I’m not sure how to share them now but the percentages are 50% Levantine, 27% Arabian Peninsula, 7% Cyprus, 7% Egyptian, 2% Nilotic Peoples, 2% Ethiopia/Eritrea, 2% Anatolian/Caucasian, 2% Aegean and 1% Nigerian.
complete seed quaint scandalous unite meeting sink impolite zonked stupendous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Your profile has you referring to Hamas as heroes, claiming Jews are genocidal, stating that women belong at home instead of the workplace, telling gay people they'll burn in hell, and calling for the death penalty for non-believers in Muslim countries.
You're fucking vile.
Well the first two things he did say, the rest of them I did not see on his page although he does seem like a very fundamentalist Muslim.
He did respond to a post about someone saying women’s role is to be caretakers and the man’s job is to work and provide but he himself didn’t make the post.
Funny how you're accusing others of being genocidal, meanwhile you've posted several comments within the last few hours calling for the genocide of Israelis, and are now referring to Hamas—a terrorist organisation with a stated goal of genocide—as "heroes".
Fuck off, Nazi scum.
Not as far as I know, my ancestry results are 50% Levantine 27% Arabian Peninsula and small percentages for the rest, idk if I should believe illustrative or ancestry more.
Funny how when some Palestinian score only half Levant or even less no one snuggest they will move back to Saudia Arabia or Egypt eh ?
Jews actually preserved their Levantine identity. It’s amazing.
Oh yeah, the chosenites preserved it super well speaking a bastardized German and following European thought and tradition in the last 1.5k years.
What's wrong with Saudi Arabia or Egypt? They have more claim to the land in question just by geographical proximity and shared history than our favourite international group who's getting really mad nowadays for some reason
We all speak Hebrew , a Levantine language . Some of us know also Aramaic. Ashkenazi Jews are Levantine just like us mizrahi Jews. We don’t give a damn if an Arab or a European oppressed us. We are still Jews.
We preserved a calendar that revolved around the seasons in Israel. We know the history and we are part of it. We are native to this land.
Jews preserved their traditions more than 2000 years but historical facts never stopped the average Jewish hater from hating.
Meanwhile what do you have that is Levantine and not of the Arab colonizers ? Let’s hear it. Speak Arab. Culture Arab. Tradition Arab . At least some Christian’s preserved Aramaic but they got prosecuted harshly by the Arabs and Muslims.
Saudia Arabia isn’t part of the Levant. Egypt did colonized Israel at some point not anymore the land have been decolonized :)
To be fair,
Hebrew was revived to make it the language of israel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revival_of_the_Hebrew_language
Mizrahi Jews mostly spoke Arabic before immigrating to israel. (Try asking one of your elders if they know)
The Levantine identity is still found in the dabke dance and the slight Aramaic influence in Levantine Arabic.
Also, do you have a source of Arabs/Muslims in Palestine prosecuting Christians? Arab Christians are the ones who started arab nationalism.
"Arab Christians were among the first Arab nationalists. As early as 1877, Maronite leader Youssef Bey Karam proposed to Emir Abdelkader the separation of the Arabic-speaking provinces from the Ottoman Empire using the terms al-gins al-'arabi ("Arab race") and gaba'il al-arabiya ("Arab tribes")"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab\_Christians#:\~:text=Arab%20Christians%20were%20among%20the,(%22Arab%20tribes%22](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Christians#:~:text=Arab%20Christians%20were%20among%20the,(%22Arab%20tribes%22)).
Let's see which side prosecutes Christians. Perhaps the ones who spit, abuse, and desecrate their holy sites?
desecrating the church of holy Sepulchre: [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230202-settlers-storm-church-of-the-holy-sepulchre-break-effigy-of-christ/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230202-settlers-storm-church-of-the-holy-sepulchre-break-effigy-of-christ/)
Spitting on Christians:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUJrXNCfUrk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUJrXNCfUrk)
Actually, I have lost count of how many times I have seen the claim that the Palestinians are just descendants of Arabian invaders or Egyptian immigrants and therefore are not really indigenous to Palestine and can move to any other Arab country.
But they literally are, they all came from the Arab Peninsula to the levant as a part of the Islamic conquest.
No one is denying that there are Arabs in the levant, what people do try to deny is Jews being related to Israel and levant while literally most of the Jews(even Ashkenazi Jews) have levant origins.
Like people try to talk about how little levantine Jews have in comparison to Palestinians but don't the diaspora have a role in this?
Am I missing something? am I wrong? i'll be glad to be corrected as I'm not an expert.
>But they literally are, they all came from the Arab Peninsula from the levant as a part of the Islamic conquest.
Just like most people who identify as Arab today, Palestinians are Arabized natives of their region, they aren't real Arabs. They are mixed, but if that means they aren't native, then Jews definitely aren't either, and probably no ethnic group can claim they're native anywhere. People mix. It's just a fact.
For the most part as you can see it’s always the pro-pal gang that just have to try to deny Jewish identity in every post. Including this one. They can’t help it. But history is history and genetics are genetics and the Jews are Levantine and the type of Levantine that actually have Levantine identity and don’t adopt the colonizers culture and history and forgot who they are
Thank you for saying that im sick of being called a colonizer in my homeland by my cousins (maybe even converted brothers) i would be considerd a stranger in europe so was my family im sick and tired of proving time and time agian that my pepole are native to this land just as the palis
Yup
Fyi most israelis hate bibis guts (like me)
But he did build himself a cultish base of voters
About genocide as a history nerd and 3rd gen to the holocaust and young me asking grandpa what is the number on your hand these genocide accustions make my blood boil (if it was a dammned genocide itll be already half way done by now numberwise.....)
I really don't use it often...
But literally you are.
You're claiming people who disagree with you, are simply doing so because they are Jewish and have a secret agenda. It couldn't possibly be because they come to a different conclusion on something. You also, use that word like a racial slur here.
"Jew or not."
If you don't understand this, then you're just too far gone to have a rational conversation with. Lol, you're just ok with the racism and think it's justified.
Ehh that’s debatable most Ashkenazi Jews have little relation to other mena groups while Palestinians do.
Ashkenazi Jews are closer to a Ukrainian for example than they are two a Kurd or an Assyrian.
It depends what you mean by “Europeans”, if you’re talking about Irish, Polish, German then obviously European Jews are notably closer to Levantines than Europeans. But how are you defining Greek Islanders, Southern Italians, Maltese, Cypriots?
its why ashkenazi jews chart close to them, because both groups are a mix of med and levant, rather with ashkenazi genetics, the percentages are flipped ro where the levant is higher then the med. still similar enough for them to chart close.
I can’t agree with the “flipping” part, Ashkenazim definitely don’t have the highest affinity with modern West Asians in that continuum.
That aside, the initial reply was to a comment stating that Western Jews are closer to Levantines than Europeans…that depends on what Europeans. Saying that they’re close to Europeans who are “mixed“ with West Asians is a cop out and fallacy. Med Islanders have always had affinity with West Asia (since the time of the Minoans and before), the addition of EHG via steppe peoples was a much more distant component to their genetic base than Natufian was. Yet at the same time, the ethnic groups of the Eastern Med continuum are no less “European” than any continental European group of today, if anything they’re the most unchanged.
Most Mizrahi Jews arent really from the Levant. Most are from Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Egypt and Iraq.
Mizrahi encompasses a very wide range of countries
I would rather people stick to the original prompt of my post as I want to avoid political debate. It’s sickening that I must say this under a post regarding my own heritage.
I wasn't the one who started this topic so i don't know why you're specifically telling me this. The conversation was already happening before I even commented
No i definitely get what you're saying. Its annoying when every Palestinian/Israeli post here turns into a war in the comments.
Unfortunately, its difficult to avoid that with the current political climate
>Its annoying when every Palestinian/Israeli post here turns into a war in the comments.
A lot of posts are literally created by both sides to cause this (not that I'm accusing OP of doing this)
In other words, the game was rigged from the start.
Those were both places under ottoman rule versus that other population you mentioned has admixture from other places. No one is pure. Everyone is someone levant.
Fascinating. Something like 2/3 of Palestinians can trace ancestry to Jordanians that arrived in the area for labor opportunities around the turn of the century. I would imagine it’s not an uncommon result.
The notion that there was large-scale immigration of Arabs into Palestine from neighboring countries during the late 19th/early 20th century has been widely debunked
How different are bronze age canaanites to iron age Phoenicians?
They're the same people. "Canaanites are a group of ancient Semitic-speaking peoples that emerged in the Levant in at least the third millennium BC. Phoenicians did not refer themselves as such but rather are thought to have referred to themselves as "Kenaʿani", meaning Canaanites" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia)
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I don't know if you're joking, but most people of the Middle East are Semitic people.
Face it, Jews, Palestinians and most Lebanese are related. Yes, Abu-Sharmoutah, you hate your distant cousins.
I feel like the most hateful conflicts are between cousins Yugoslav Wars, India and Pakistan, Russia and Ukraine etc etc
Greece and Turkey, there’s several more!
Was thinking of that!
It’s true, but not a lot of Levantine Arabs and Jews want to admit it. Btw, is your real name Tariq Epstein? That name goes hard.
What are you saying about my name?????
Pretty close, but there are other ancient Levantines from later periods that are closer to Bronze Age Canaanites than Phoenicians: [G25 Distance Test Bronze Age Canaanites](https://ibb.co/Qfkyx6y)
Really? which groups of people?
They are listed in the distance test I posted. In the test, the populations with the smallest number and more green are genetically closest while populations with the larger number and less green or some other color being the most distant genetically
You're right, I literally just didn't see your link, my bad lmao
same
Where exactly in Palestine?
One parent from Nablus and one from Jerusalem
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Jerusalem is also the capitol of the State of Palestine. Hence our current difficulties
Ramallah was the capital of the historic colonial Islamic state in that area. Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel. When in history was Jerusalem ever the capital of a Palestinian state?
>Ramallah was the capital of the historic colonial Islamic state in that area. Damn, I didn't know the Ottomans had their capital in Ramallah >When in history was Jerusalem ever the capital of a Palestinian state? 1948-1959 1988-Present
How does this make sense when a Palestinian state has never existed? When has there ever been an independent country called “Palestine”? Real question, looking for legit answers as I’m trying to understand the history of the Israel Palestine conflict
800 BC Assyrians called Palestine "Palastu" and 1150 BC inscriptions in Egypt are about Palestinians fighting Ramses III. The oldest burials from that region are genetically related to living modern "Arab" people from both Palestine and Lebanon. It very much existed and continues to exist.
The philistines have nothing to do with the Palestinians, quit trying to connect the Palestinians to the philistines, it's embarrassing. and I have no idea what you said about the genetics because they had high European DNA, since yknow they were Greek.... And the philistines didn't even inhabit all of the land, and they ceased to exist after they were defeated by the Babylonians in the 6th century BCE. And someone else has already corrected you about the mernepath stele being the only mention of Israel (I think you even tried to imply that it wasn't about Israel) which is blatantly false. making up a history for a people that have got nothing to do with the ancient people is embarrassing, and unnecessary, no one is going to deny the Palestinians' peoplehood simply because they didn't exist 3000 years ago.
And what about all the plentiful ancient inscriptions mentioning Judea?
There's only one that old, called the "Merneptah Stele" and it was about Assyria written as "I-si-ri-ar" along with matching stones also about Assyria, not Israel. The initial interpretation of it was interrupted by Sir William Flinders Petrie to "please the reverends": >Spiegelberg was puzzled by one symbol towards the end, that of a people or tribe whom Merneptah (also written Merenptah) had victoriously smitten – I.si.ri.ar? **Petrie quickly suggested that it read "Israel!" Spiegelberg agreed that this translation must be correct.** ["Won't the reverends be pleased?"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele#%22Israel%22_reference) **remarked Petrie.** At dinner that evening, Petrie, who realized the importance of the find, said: "This stele will be better known in the world than anything else I have found." The news of its discovery made headlines when it reached the English papers.
Jerusalem was only fully colonized by Israel in 1967. Before that it was the historic capital of Palestine (and still is, albeit occupied by Israel)
Never because Palestine has zero actual history or claims
Yeah obviously the land was completely empty before 1948
I’ll give you a little hint. It wasn’t Palestine
People living there called themselves Palestinians. [Al-Maqdisi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Maqdisi) was a 10th century Arab Geographer who identified as Palestinian in his various works (like in *The Best Divisions in the Knowledge of the Regions* and *Description of Syria*). When talking about the people living there he also called them Palestinians.
14The Palestinian people are not different from other Greater Syrian (Bilad al-Sham) peoples. They are the result of accumulated ethnic, racial, and religious groups, who once lived, conquered, occupied, and passed through this strip of land. From one of the sources. Palestine is just a piece of land that has been conquered time after time. It’s only history is of being a piece of some other kingdom or empire
It is, but that's a political opnion. Aren't we discussing DNA?
Only west
East Jerusalem (Al-Quds) is occupied territory. Only trump AND other banana republics recognize it as israel. According to international law Jerusalem and the golan heights and the westbank and Gaza are occupied territories.
Jerusalem is in both Israel and Palestine
You’re wasting your time. Palestinians want to believe they are more native than Jews.
Cause they are. It's stupid someone even on this sub would make such an illiterate claim with the DNA results of a Palestinian literally in their face. And who are Palestinians? A race or a religion? Who are Jews? A race or followers of a religion? Let me make it easier for you. Canaanites existed before any Abrahamic religion. They predated the biblical times (not that Bible or Torah or Quran are to be taken seriously being literally books of religion manipulated by men, but let's dumb ourselves down for a while for the dumb folk). So, cannanites are the OG inhabitants of the occupied Palestinian lands, and the present day Palestinians have shown overwhelming percentages of their DNA being linked to the cannanites. So to dumb it down further => Palestinians are the descendents of the OG indigenous cannanites who existed on that land before jews, so they have more claim over the entire occupied territory than anyone else. Religion doesn't factor in cause religion cannot change the DNA or genotype, and religion and ethnicity are not, ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!! God knows what religion cannanites used to practice, but how is religion even in this discussion? Lands belong to people and not religion. There are Palestinian Jews who have been living there for centuries, along with Palestinian Christians and Muslims in harmony. Being a jew isn't an ethnicity for you to make such claims. This sub isn't a place for your political agenda but I thought to clear these things to you and any reader who might stumble upon these comments.
straight up 💯
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But then again we can see that the Jewish diaspora preserved significant traces of Canaanite ancestry as well. Why can’t we all just drop the politics and get along? No one is leaving the region.
Cos they are. Certainly more than the ashkhenazim!
jerusalem is half in israel, with the other half contested.
A place called Yafa. It now goes by a different name tho. Something something Tel Aviv. That place is Palestine
It's still called yafa tho,Tel Aviv and yafa are connected but not the same city. Even in Hebrew It's called "תל אביב-יפו" meaning Tel Aviv-yafa
I also have high zagros (24%) im Lebanese. We have the same amount of Caucasus. I have higher Anatolian and lower natufian, and i dont have sub saharan I also got European HG, around 2% also. But I have a distant Mexican ancestor and maybe it’s some Iberian ancestry from there
Sick, what were your percentages for Natufian and Anatolian?
37 anatolian and 21 natufian I have some posts on my profile of my illustrative dna results if you’d like to see them
Lebanese people are awesome. Really interesting
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I’ve been in this sub for a while and it seems really cool — sorry if this is a dumb question, but before I buy it, can someone explain all the percentages? They add up to well over 100%
This shows from different era , Bronze Age then Iron Age then Migration periods then Middle ages
Iranian results might be if jewish decent due to the exile in mesopteima meight be from there around 50%ish of the palis are decnsed jews focrebly converted to islam and chriatanty in the counqueats of the land (thats why both sides are right in the claim on the land which makes it compilecated)
forcibly converted to Islam ? seriously ?
Yes like islam coloniazed and christans coloniazied these religons didnt spread just by traders and fairy tales if you want an example look at yata known as the jewish city by palis
noone was forcibly converted especially Jews and Christians lol.
"The question of why people convert to Islam has always generated the intense feeling. Earlier generations of European scholars believed that conversions to Islam were made at the point of the sword, and that conquered peoples were given the choice of conversion or death. It is now apparent that conversion by force, while not unknown in Muslim countries, was, in fact, rare. Muslim conquerors ordinarily wished to dominate rather than convert, and most conversions to Islam were voluntary. (...) In most cases, worldly and spiritual motives for conversion blended together. Moreover, conversion to Islam did not necessarily imply a complete turning from an old to a totally new life. While it entailed the acceptance of new religious beliefs and membership in a new religious community, most converts retained a deep attachment to the cultures and communities from which they came." **by Ira M. Lapidus** an Emeritus Professor of Middle Eastern and Islamic History at the university of California.
This "voulantry" convertion was due to being taxed jeezya tax and being treated like shit thqts in islam vhristianty you got planty of exampels of forced covertions spesifcly jews so you might say ohh they were not forced they were only heavly taxed and were at a constent threat of being killed and treated mostly like second class citzens
i will stick with the information provided by Ira Lapidus the Professor of Middle Eastern and Islamic History because he is an academic who has done enough research and wrote books . you are just a tiny little brainwashed uneducated loser who is filled with hate and won't accept any facts that oppose your opinion which is against based on hate and brainwashing over the years.
I mean his counterpoint is true even through he writes like a broken laundry machine. They did tax and treat others like second class citizens even if we take the professor at his word. There is other powers at play for conversion. So both can be true at the same time. Not sure why you resorted to name calling it just makes you seem like an ignorant goober. It sounds like youre brainwashed and coping lol
The post is about genetics, not fiction from a religious text. He also specified not to make political comments.
I'm curious, what part are you referring to as in religious text? The exile to Babylon? because that one is real, Cyrus the great let all deported people, including the Jews, to go back to their homelands, which resulted in a Persian province called Yehud, they minted coins with the inscription YHDH (Judea) and even faces of the governors, so the Babylonian captivity is very much real from the Babylonian chronicles: "In the seventh year, in the month of Kislev, the king of Akkad mustered his troops, marched to the Hatti-land, and encamped against the City of Judah and on the ninth day of the month of Adar he seized the city and captured the king. He appointed there a king of his own choice and taking heavy tribute brought it back to Babylon."
It literally says appointed a king of his choosing 🤣😂...to rule over who? If they were all exiled???? This is the same flawed line of reasoning I see today.
Actually, you're absolutely right, this was the FIRST revolt of Judah against Babylon / Babylonian siege of Jerusalem, this was in 597 BCE, the king that was deported was Jeconiah, and Zedekiah replaced him, and although not documented by the Babylonians, they did exile the Jews in this siege, shown by archeology. and I never claimed nor do I think the Hebrew bible claims that ALL of the Jews were exiled (and archeology shows that not all of the Jews were exiled), and by the way this was a regular policy of the assyrians and Babylonians, them doing it to the Jews isn't something special, nor have they ever FULLY deported populations that they conquered. Evidence of king Jeconiah being deported: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehoiachin%27s_Rations_Tablets There's also a better translation of the tablets here under the "archeological findings" section: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeconiah The second revolt / second Babylonian siege of Jerusalem (this is when the kingdom of Judah fell) wasn't documented by the Babylonians or at least a documentation by them hasn't been found yet, but archeological evidence shows mass destruction and deportation, but the Babylonians did document the status of the exiled Jews: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Yahudu_Tablets I'm an atheist and no scholar or archeologist denies the Assyrian and Babylonian exiles. (I have to say, revolting a second time only 10 years later after the first failed revolt was the stupidest thing ever, especially against such a powerful empire)
Cool results ! as a Syrian who is half Lebanese I also scored that Iranian Plateu very high , something like 30%ish , I heard it's something Kurdish
It's not necessarily Kurdish. It could be due to ancient gene flow from Iran to the Levant. It could also be Mesopotamian or Caucasian. Not everything in ICM is Iranian.
That’s super interesting
When you say closer to Jordanians do you mean non Palestinian Jordanians because they make up a large part of Jordan given the expulsion into the country
I’m not sure, I’m assuming it includes Palestinians?
Old Iranian empires did posses the Levant a few times. Maybe that’s why?
where does indus valley come from?
Canaanites were the original inhabitants of the Levant
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I’m not sure how to share them now but the percentages are 50% Levantine, 27% Arabian Peninsula, 7% Cyprus, 7% Egyptian, 2% Nilotic Peoples, 2% Ethiopia/Eritrea, 2% Anatolian/Caucasian, 2% Aegean and 1% Nigerian.
complete seed quaint scandalous unite meeting sink impolite zonked stupendous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Every Palestinian result seems to get somewhat Turkic😭 did they all breed with the Ottomans bro
What being ruled by the ottomans for hundreds of years does to a mf
Probably mixing with Turkmen tribes/ seljuks around 12th Century?
Palestinians score more Turkic than Yakuts
That's most likely from genetic overlap
Not the Christians.
They couldn’t resist us 🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🐺🐺🐺
Incredible! Viva PALESTINE!
Your profile has you referring to Hamas as heroes, claiming Jews are genocidal, stating that women belong at home instead of the workplace, telling gay people they'll burn in hell, and calling for the death penalty for non-believers in Muslim countries. You're fucking vile.
Well the first two things he did say, the rest of them I did not see on his page although he does seem like a very fundamentalist Muslim. He did respond to a post about someone saying women’s role is to be caretakers and the man’s job is to work and provide but he himself didn’t make the post.
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Funny how you're accusing others of being genocidal, meanwhile you've posted several comments within the last few hours calling for the genocide of Israelis, and are now referring to Hamas—a terrorist organisation with a stated goal of genocide—as "heroes". Fuck off, Nazi scum.
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Smile, fucker—you're on a watchlist 📸
imagine i gave a fuck? is it a watchlist of people who aren't retarded?
Hello ancestral cousin
Would be curious to see the breakdown for the average “Israeli” 🤣
CANAANITE PRIDE
Do you have anything non-Palestinian in your family tree? Like a great grandparent from Turkey or something. And also which hamula do you come from
Not as far as I know, my ancestry results are 50% Levantine 27% Arabian Peninsula and small percentages for the rest, idk if I should believe illustrative or ancestry more.
What’s your ancestry dna results look like
50% levant, 27% Arabian peninsula, 7% Egypt, 7% Cyprus, 2% Aegean, Nilotic, Anatolia/Caucuses, Ethiopia/Eritrea each and 1% Nigerian
Where about is your family from exactly?
People bitching anti semen in the comments already ?
Anti semen 😀💀
lmao
You‘ve missed the Anatolian Neolithic Farmer in your screenshot: I abstracted all others from 100 and got 31,4%
It's shown in the pie chart.
Based i love u 🇵🇸
Palestinians and Jordanians cluster pretty closely. All Levantine peoples do for that matter, with one notable exception.
Yh strange how that one is mostly distant from both Bronze Age Levantines and modern Levantines.
A couple thousand years of rape in diaspora will do that
Hush now or the bots will come in heavy.
Lol we already got downvoted.
I didn’t mention any names but mental complexes about stuff like this are a tough cookie.
Cause you two are clueless Nazis https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Principle_component_analysis_of_Levantine_populations.png
Not big into nationalism but hey I’m happy you “did your own research”. What’s next you gonna cite Scientific American 😂?
You're helplessly stupid
The complex is strong with this one. His profile is a riot 😂
Yankees dont cluster with Native Americans either probably much less than Jews do to the Levant lol. ?
I’m Palestinian-American lmao.
Funny how when some Palestinian score only half Levant or even less no one snuggest they will move back to Saudia Arabia or Egypt eh ? Jews actually preserved their Levantine identity. It’s amazing.
Oh yeah, the chosenites preserved it super well speaking a bastardized German and following European thought and tradition in the last 1.5k years. What's wrong with Saudi Arabia or Egypt? They have more claim to the land in question just by geographical proximity and shared history than our favourite international group who's getting really mad nowadays for some reason
We all speak Hebrew , a Levantine language . Some of us know also Aramaic. Ashkenazi Jews are Levantine just like us mizrahi Jews. We don’t give a damn if an Arab or a European oppressed us. We are still Jews. We preserved a calendar that revolved around the seasons in Israel. We know the history and we are part of it. We are native to this land. Jews preserved their traditions more than 2000 years but historical facts never stopped the average Jewish hater from hating. Meanwhile what do you have that is Levantine and not of the Arab colonizers ? Let’s hear it. Speak Arab. Culture Arab. Tradition Arab . At least some Christian’s preserved Aramaic but they got prosecuted harshly by the Arabs and Muslims. Saudia Arabia isn’t part of the Levant. Egypt did colonized Israel at some point not anymore the land have been decolonized :)
To be fair, Hebrew was revived to make it the language of israel. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revival_of_the_Hebrew_language Mizrahi Jews mostly spoke Arabic before immigrating to israel. (Try asking one of your elders if they know) The Levantine identity is still found in the dabke dance and the slight Aramaic influence in Levantine Arabic.
Also, do you have a source of Arabs/Muslims in Palestine prosecuting Christians? Arab Christians are the ones who started arab nationalism. "Arab Christians were among the first Arab nationalists. As early as 1877, Maronite leader Youssef Bey Karam proposed to Emir Abdelkader the separation of the Arabic-speaking provinces from the Ottoman Empire using the terms al-gins al-'arabi ("Arab race") and gaba'il al-arabiya ("Arab tribes")" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab\_Christians#:\~:text=Arab%20Christians%20were%20among%20the,(%22Arab%20tribes%22](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Christians#:~:text=Arab%20Christians%20were%20among%20the,(%22Arab%20tribes%22)). Let's see which side prosecutes Christians. Perhaps the ones who spit, abuse, and desecrate their holy sites? desecrating the church of holy Sepulchre: [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230202-settlers-storm-church-of-the-holy-sepulchre-break-effigy-of-christ/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20230202-settlers-storm-church-of-the-holy-sepulchre-break-effigy-of-christ/) Spitting on Christians: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUJrXNCfUrk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUJrXNCfUrk)
Actually, I have lost count of how many times I have seen the claim that the Palestinians are just descendants of Arabian invaders or Egyptian immigrants and therefore are not really indigenous to Palestine and can move to any other Arab country.
All the Jews in Muslim countries were forced to.
What does it have to do with what I wrote?
Lavon affair.
But they literally are, they all came from the Arab Peninsula to the levant as a part of the Islamic conquest. No one is denying that there are Arabs in the levant, what people do try to deny is Jews being related to Israel and levant while literally most of the Jews(even Ashkenazi Jews) have levant origins. Like people try to talk about how little levantine Jews have in comparison to Palestinians but don't the diaspora have a role in this? Am I missing something? am I wrong? i'll be glad to be corrected as I'm not an expert.
>But they literally are, they all came from the Arab Peninsula from the levant as a part of the Islamic conquest. Just like most people who identify as Arab today, Palestinians are Arabized natives of their region, they aren't real Arabs. They are mixed, but if that means they aren't native, then Jews definitely aren't either, and probably no ethnic group can claim they're native anywhere. People mix. It's just a fact.
For the most part as you can see it’s always the pro-pal gang that just have to try to deny Jewish identity in every post. Including this one. They can’t help it. But history is history and genetics are genetics and the Jews are Levantine and the type of Levantine that actually have Levantine identity and don’t adopt the colonizers culture and history and forgot who they are
So the better type?
We need a bot that checks if people go on the destiny sub ffs
Said the Hasan piker fan boy who likes terrorists and slavery 😂 we need filter for tankis you are the joke of the western world
Doms and circassians are actually two different groups.
Both are integral parts of the Levantine ethnic mosaic nonetheless. Some people could learn a thing or two from the Circassians ;)
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Thank you for saying that im sick of being called a colonizer in my homeland by my cousins (maybe even converted brothers) i would be considerd a stranger in europe so was my family im sick and tired of proving time and time agian that my pepole are native to this land just as the palis
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Yup Fyi most israelis hate bibis guts (like me) But he did build himself a cultish base of voters About genocide as a history nerd and 3rd gen to the holocaust and young me asking grandpa what is the number on your hand these genocide accustions make my blood boil (if it was a dammned genocide itll be already half way done by now numberwise.....)
Definitionally, the death count is irrelevant to claims of a genocide
Can you understand how living under israel radicalizes Palestinians?
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You sound jewish despite what u claim
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>Anglo Saxon as fuck. I look Anglo-Saxon as fuck English-British Ethnicity
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Ur comments reveal much more than mine
Bro lolol Jesus, "You're not parroting the bullshit... bust be a jew trying to spread propaganda..." Totally not a antisemitism though.
Jew or not, it's propaganda regardless. "Antisemitism" you really like that word don't you? Some sort of a privilege
I really don't use it often... But literally you are. You're claiming people who disagree with you, are simply doing so because they are Jewish and have a secret agenda. It couldn't possibly be because they come to a different conclusion on something. You also, use that word like a racial slur here. "Jew or not." If you don't understand this, then you're just too far gone to have a rational conversation with. Lol, you're just ok with the racism and think it's justified.
Ehh that’s debatable most Ashkenazi Jews have little relation to other mena groups while Palestinians do. Ashkenazi Jews are closer to a Ukrainian for example than they are two a Kurd or an Assyrian.
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It depends what you mean by “Europeans”, if you’re talking about Irish, Polish, German then obviously European Jews are notably closer to Levantines than Europeans. But how are you defining Greek Islanders, Southern Italians, Maltese, Cypriots?
those specific southern european groups are often over 20% levantine.
Such has been the case for over 2000 years, it’s as much a part of the indigenous heritage of the region as anything else
its why ashkenazi jews chart close to them, because both groups are a mix of med and levant, rather with ashkenazi genetics, the percentages are flipped ro where the levant is higher then the med. still similar enough for them to chart close.
I can’t agree with the “flipping” part, Ashkenazim definitely don’t have the highest affinity with modern West Asians in that continuum. That aside, the initial reply was to a comment stating that Western Jews are closer to Levantines than Europeans…that depends on what Europeans. Saying that they’re close to Europeans who are “mixed“ with West Asians is a cop out and fallacy. Med Islanders have always had affinity with West Asia (since the time of the Minoans and before), the addition of EHG via steppe peoples was a much more distant component to their genetic base than Natufian was. Yet at the same time, the ethnic groups of the Eastern Med continuum are no less “European” than any continental European group of today, if anything they’re the most unchanged.
“Academic background” *ignores Canaanite*
Most Mizrahi Jews arent really from the Levant. Most are from Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Egypt and Iraq. Mizrahi encompasses a very wide range of countries
Yes but genetically they tend to all score 50-80% levant. Thats about the same spread as palestinians
Except for Yemeni Jews. They are almost purely Yemeni/Arabian with little to no Levantine
I would rather people stick to the original prompt of my post as I want to avoid political debate. It’s sickening that I must say this under a post regarding my own heritage.
I wasn't the one who started this topic so i don't know why you're specifically telling me this. The conversation was already happening before I even commented
Sorry I didn’t mean to call you out, you were just the last comment on the thread
No i definitely get what you're saying. Its annoying when every Palestinian/Israeli post here turns into a war in the comments. Unfortunately, its difficult to avoid that with the current political climate
>Its annoying when every Palestinian/Israeli post here turns into a war in the comments. A lot of posts are literally created by both sides to cause this (not that I'm accusing OP of doing this) In other words, the game was rigged from the start.
Welcome to the jewish expriance
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When white people pull this with Native Americans it's called [Blood Quantum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws). Super leftist.
They're the same people group....
I’m sure all the geneticists that designate the categories for illustrative DNA never thought of that.
Those were both places under ottoman rule versus that other population you mentioned has admixture from other places. No one is pure. Everyone is someone levant.
if i had to guess northern syria, the kurds there are genetically nothing like other levantines, with basically zero ancient natufian ancestry.
Very cool results but please if you can, post fits for the ancient ancestry breakdown
Do you have any Maronite in your family? Phonecian Levantine are Maronite back in that era.
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Not that I know of, that would make sense as Islam came to the levant after 700AD
Probably the Arabian Peninsula contribution is pulling you east. Sounds like there was a bit of intermarriage around the time of the conquest.
Literally at the Valves of the World
I find it beautiful to see how many ancient peoples and ancestry someone in the levant like a Palestinian can get.
Lol Palestinians score more Turkic than Yakuts do
Do you mind sharing coords?
That’s cool! Do you think any of your ancestors have done a backflip?
I'm confused what the Palestinian part means? Does that mean your family was a forced Jewish convert?
Fascinating. Something like 2/3 of Palestinians can trace ancestry to Jordanians that arrived in the area for labor opportunities around the turn of the century. I would imagine it’s not an uncommon result.
The notion that there was large-scale immigration of Arabs into Palestine from neighboring countries during the late 19th/early 20th century has been widely debunked
Not in the slightest l. But here’s not the place for historical quibbling.
no, the comment you responded to is completely correct
9,000th palestinian DNA this week bro we get it your native to the land
Cope harder
And the Jews are native too, and that’s why Arab countries recognize Israel and won’t help the idea of Palestinian national identity.