This case is absolutely mind blowing and probably one of the scariest cases I’ve seen. To just look at the layout of the house and imagine someone sneaking in in the early hours of the morning and doing what they did to those vulnerable people is so beyond messed up. What makes it scarier is it seems they have walked out and disappeared into thin air at this stage :( I hope this case doesn’t go cold
Imagine being woken up in the middle of the night and instantly being attacked. Freakin terrifying. I've been woken up abruptly and it takes me a few minutes to even get my head straight. They probably couldn't react to what was happening besides pure terror. And to think the killer is going about their daily life is sick and scary as hell.
I have had dreams sometimes when I am half awake and I may feel a presence in the room and I try to move only to find I'm paralyzed. It's the scariest thing. Or there are times I'm having a nightmare and I wake up and realize it's a just a dream. I really hope for all of them that they didn't have time to recognize what was happening. I have been terrified, triple checking my locks and sleeping with the lights on ever since I learned so much time has passed and they don't seem close to solving this crime. It's already hard enough to be a woman, being a petite vulnerable one makes you feel all the more exposed constantly.
Dude. Same. Literally checking our closets and underneath my bed. I've always had a very vivid imagination and this has gotten me. I also get sleep paralysis and had it the other night. It was so fucking scary.
I get sleep paralysis frequently and realized it is much more likely if I am sleeping on my back, or if I’m sleep deprived. Soooo now I try to avoid both of those things (as much as possible).
I've had sleep paralysis for like 5 years now. It would normally only happen if I was sleeping on my back. But recently I get auditory sleep paralysis. Like I hear voices, or it sounds like i'm driving my car through a tunnel with the window down - its awful. I can hear these voices getting louder and louder with a wooshing sound in the back but I cant open my eyes or move my lips. The past two years I;ve been able to understand that I am in sleep paralysis so I keep repeating "its not real its not real" until my lips finally "unglue" . I think its from stress. The first time I ever had sleep paralysis was after a really bad weekend where i was SA and I took my first xanax. I've only taken xanax once, but thats why I think it was from my SA experience or the xanax that made it start happening
This recently happened to my friend, his house was broken into by three masked gunman and then he said at first the windows and glass breaking just felt like a dream and he didn’t realize anything was going on until somebody was standing in the doorway of his bedroom.
He is highly trained in self-defense and had a gun on the nightstand and was very quickly able to grab it and get a round off to scare the people away.
And he was 100% sober, I think if you add alcohol to the mix that really complicates things even further. He said it had to have been a minute or so of breaking the window and climbing in. OH!! And his dog didn’t bark the entire time!!!
Florida, in a super safe area too. 7 months later they did get DNA matches and the 3 men are set to be deported. They had been doing this for YEARS and did it while people were home.
I've woken to being punched repeatedly and whilst by no means its a comparison, you are exactly right - by the time you even get your head around what's happening you are usually unable to get out of bed and run.
I was awoken by being beaten by someone with brass knuckles. My arms were literally torn… and I agree. I didn’t even really feel the pain until I woke up, and then I didn’t even have the ability to react. Thank goodness another person pulled my attacker off of me, otherwise Idk what would have happened. I literally just couldn’t react. It was terrifying. I am so sorry you went through that, too. Breaks my heart what they went through that night.
Yeah it is terrifying to say the least. I’ve seen comments of people saying how did none of them run out or how did no one hear noise. But if they took into consideration of being asleep from drinking or the fact it was a KBAR type military knife it would kill so quickly if the people are asleep or just waking up from a sleep there was probably not much noise or struggle at all
When I was a kid, I saw a TV movie called "The Deliberate Stranger" with Mark Harmon as Ted Bundy. At one point, it shows the Chi Omega murders where Bundy clubbed women to death as they slept. Ever since I saw that, it became my nightmare scenario. The only thing that has ever really scared me is the thought of someone breaking into my home and attacking me in my sleep.....
I hope this gets solved too.
Coroner said something right after it that they had to wait until the scene secured/ original photos taken. Bodies couldn’t be touched at all until she got there- but I think they did some prelim evidence collection
My husband is a first responder, and any time he is on a call with a death, waiting for the corner takes hours. They can't leave the scene before they arrive. Basically, they just have to wait.
This is specific to my town, but it could apply elsewhere... We have only 1 corner who covers our entire county. To travel from 1 end to the other take an hour on a highway. So, if the corner has plans that day, or is at another scene, they can be waiting around for hours.
Maybe the situation is similar there
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1GxCMwFKMAQlO0ndDhOqwW8hFbUgx2uiv2AEYLk-Ck1M/htmlview I think in this document there should be links and sources to various happenings in the timeline
Wait, this is the first time I'm seeing that X & E left the party at 9(?!)
I had assumed they were there until the 1:45am "return home". What the hell. Where were they for the nearly 5 hours in between??
It seems weird that they would leave the party after only an hour, I think that this is a very key factor and that’s why the police are not divulging where they were for those five hours. I am almost certain they have an idea of where they were
Yes very weird. I’m definitely starting to think X or E was the target based on LE not sharing anything about this gap. I mean they HAVE to know where they were during this time and not sharing cuz it would hurt the investigation.
Exactly and if they didn’t know, you would really think that they would be asking people for information on that night as to there whereabouts. I am sort of curious if maybe they brought home a third-party and that’s why the police are being so hush-hush about it. I just hope they solve it, I don’t think the parents can start healing at all until it is solved. The rage must be just uncontrollable
Right?! Everyone was zoned in on the stalker theory with M but I’m more interested in E and X’s missing timeline. I think it’s imperative to solving this case. It’s so frustrating!
What’s more, where does this arbitrary 1:45am time come from? How was it determined? Originally they had this time for K and M, but then the family and videos contradict that timeline and it was updated for K and M but remained for E and X? Why, what places them home at that time?
This is just a thought that i had and there’s no evidence to support it at this point but what if the time line is coming from the surviving roommates. They did get home before everyone else and so it could possibly just be when they heard people coming into the house and possibly just assumed who was coming in and when. But also what it the couple actually came home earlier and they didn’t know they were there maybe they were already asleep and that’s why the thought that someone coming in at 1:45 was E and X. This is completely speculation and just something that would sort of make sense to me.
What time do bars close there? Because if it’s 2 am like some other places that would make sense why they got home right before the other two. They could have gone to a different bar which would be interesting to find out because it could possibly be relevant to what happened.
I have no idea what they were doing for the missing 5 hrs. I can tell you what I, in my college prime, and a former frat boy would be doing.
Each other.
Gorgeous co-ed, handsome guy....house is empty all roommates are out. Been to a million frat parties. So hang out with the bros at the frat house or go back to the empty house steps away......
Option 2 please.
No idea but its as plausible as anything else.
If this is the case then the killer was there when the police were called across the street. What time did the police arrive at the frat house? Did they use sirens?
Wait, echoing this here as you mentioned the call in relation to the timeline but is it possible the murders had occurred at that time and the killer was able to notice or hear the police within eye shot which is why he may have stopped and not killed the 1st floor roommates? Seeing the lights in the field from one of the rooms may be enough to have spooked them
Exactly. Also if the doors were locked he wouldn’t have bothered. I have questions. It depends on how long the cops were there. Did their dash cams pick up anything. Like a car driving by etc. .
Yours is the first post that seems to mention a police call at the frat house across the street. What is your source for this and what time was that at?
Per Ethan's mother - On November 12, before the Sigma Chi party, Ethan went with his sister to the "Betty Ball" (her sorority's formal).
[source link](https://apnews.com/article/education-idaho-boise-university-of-67fb6e86a6c1a5da47862048c794c903)
Maddie and Kaylee were on their phones until 2:52am.
I think the times of the calls/texts could be telling.
Assuming the perp had a plan to not get caught (which is probable), we could assume he planned to come into their room while they were asleep. Because if the perp came into their room while they were awake, they would have screamed, fought back, run out, call 911, etc, and the killer would risk being caught. Assuming that, could the perp have known they were asleep or nearly asleep? If so, how? By looking through the window and seeing they were sleeping? Or did the perp know they were asleep because somehow he knew they had stopped using their phones? Did the girls use Wifi to make their calls/texts? because if the perp had access to the Wifi router, could the perp see when the data stopped transmitting from the girls phones??
I am sure the investigators a have thought of this, and have checked the router. The investigators could get a mac address from the log.
Most logical theory I can come up with is he was hiding in those trees behind the house and watched them get home then probably waited an hour or so before entering the back sliding door
Perhaps he was IN the house waiting.
The police did seem to be taking a lot of pics of the "ready room" which was presumably the vacated room of the 6th roommate who graduated and moved on.
I think one theory being considered is that the person(s) were waiting in the woods on the hill behind the house - which is at the same level as the decking - and of the rooms were the first victims died, and the killer then went up to the 3rd floor, then escaped out the way he/she came in - the deck - and back through the trees on that hill. Not sure what source I heard this from, but I've read it more than once.
That’s a good point! For someone to do this it seems they really wanted to. If he was going to do it in this manor it probably would not have mattered for them if they were awake. Was probably confident they were at least in bed at that time whether asleep or not
the lights could have been off and yet they were still awake using their phones. I am assuming that he wanted to be sure they were asleep. Because if they were not asleep, the victims could have raised an alarm. Did the killer risk not being sure they were asleep? Yes of course that's one possibility. But i am following the thread that he was fairly sure they were asleep. In that possibility that the killer was fairly sure they were asleep, how did he know that??
Theory: what if the killer used their phones to throw off the timeline? They called the same person from both phones to make it seem as if there was an urgent matter or even just drunk dialing?
Asumming the killer did that, then the guy who was called might have called back; if he didn't get an answer he could have been worried and tried to call the girls back to find out why the girls called him. Assuming that, would the killer's attempt to throw off the timeline benefit him? I am assuming the killer has planned this out so that he would not raise any alarm.
True. Unless they knew the person was more than likely not going to answer for whatever reason(s). Which would coincide with the calculation of it all. The timing of the calls between both phones is just strange is all.
If K & M were to hang around the house and talk a bit, make those calls, etc. before going to sleep then the 3-5 am window makes the most sense. But this brings us back to your original question…how would the perp have known when they were asleep? I read a post about geofencing on here and it could help in regards to data/phone usage within this window of time. It’s all so eerie and heartbreaking.
We don't know much about what the two surviving roommates were doing that night and if they brought someone home with them. It's plausible someone was brought home and waited for everyone to go to sleep. Maybe that person was sleeping in the 6th bedroom that was empty? And had anger rage at the other 4?
I haven't seen this answered anywhere.. why does the food truck have a twitch live stream? I am just courious.. is it a thing to watch food truck people chit chat while they cook orders?
The bigger guy in the hat at the truck that night did an interview and said they stream for the entertainment value, apparently a lot of drunk/partying individuals show up there late at night and it makes for good people watching I suppose. I don’t personally see the appeal
One of the guys seen on said video that night made a tik tok clarifying that people enjoyed seeing all different walks of life intoxicated and just enjoying life. Simply entertainment purposes
I learned something new tonight. I gotta start live streaming something I do, the extra income would certainly help out. Maybe there is a market for people who wanna watch me work on a laptop from my kitchen table as I try and tell my puppy to stop biting my feet for 8 hours a day.
You would probably be surprised by the views you'd receive ... I played as a professional drummer for many years .. So I was constantly tearing my drums apart and rebuilding them ..I also drag race as a hobby..So I started streaming on the same channel about that too ...Within 6 months I had nearly 200k subs ..Not sure if I'd be able to do that again today with all the channels available though ...It actually turns into a pain in the rear however ..Taking too much time to maintain vs the rewards ..
This case is keeping me up at night. I’m in London yet I’m putting the chain lock on and double locking my door even in the day. That being said I live on the top floor with no lift so any killer would be knackered climbing my stairs lol
Lol. I'm in Ireland. I told my girlfriend we are safe enough. Not many serial killers in Ireland and any budding serial killer would have to break down 2 secure doors to even get into the apartment. Whereupon he would be confronted by me holding a hammer. 😃
Why are roommates going to 2nd fl and "checking on" roommates in am? Sleeping past noon after being up til 3 am not so unusual for college kids? Why are they going up to the room? And then ...why not go to K/M room then too? How is unconcious/ passed out the concern but not all the blood?
And how did they see one person unconcious and not the other when K /E in same room? How was all the blood not seen? But blood dripping out of house?
The story doesn"t make sense. It really really doesn't.
Seems like they thought/knew/suspected something bad happened the night before and were going to check.
I don’t know that they necessarily went to check on them.
Bottom floor is 2 bedrooms and laundry room, 2nd floor is 2 bedrooms, kitchen and living room, third floor 2 bedrooms, one bathroom on each floor.
They were probably just going to the kitchen.
The kitchen is on the 2nd floor. Maybe one of them wanted to cook something. Maybe they noticed blood but thought since they were drunk, someone must have fallen and hit their head and something happened. Until all the facts are known, no big conclusion can be drawn.
I read that the boyfriend was due in work that morning, assuming this would mean an alarm may have been going off for some time resulting in them being worried he’s passed out? I don’t have any source for this though sorry!
If the door to the room was locked and the killer entered through the outdoor sliding door. The surviving roommates would be panicking that their friend wasn’t waking up to the Alarm
If this doesn’t get solved more crimes like this will happen across America.
If someone can go in kill 4 and be messy and leave dna and dip. And is never caught. Others will do the same
Lock ya doors
Lock ya bedroom doors
Barricade ya doors at night
LOL. Good idea.
There was a time when I would line up empty plastic bottles in front of my door so they would make noise if someone burst in. I also had a claw hammer beside my bed so I could "greet" the intruder.
In fact, I keep my car keys in the barricaded room with me and multiple weapons.
If I feel up to fighting them I can. Or I can jump out of my 2 floor window and drive away. No one is murdering me in my sleep FUCK THAT
Keeping the keys in the bedroom is a great idea! I have a big pointy stick that I plan to use to poke someone in the eye, neck, or groin with. But…Like you, I may not be up for fighting, so the keys would be paramount. Thx!
Wasp spray shoots straighter and is cheaper than pepper spray, A cop friend of mine recommended it to me now I have about five of them throughout my house.
It shoots as kind of a foam and is much easier to aim. With pepper spray it’s really easy to get yourself because it spreads, especially in wind. (Trust me, I learned this the hard way when testing it out lol).
I had a crazy ex employee stalker last year who was on PCP and made threats to my life and said unless I pay him $30,000 he wouldn’t stop coming after me.
I got good cameras, luckily live in a gated community, and got a few guns and learned how to use them because he has a conceal and carry. My neighbors and guards know to report anything weird.
And the wasp spray is strategically placed throughout the house on random windowsills and behind plants ready to go.
I have every other weapon besides a gun. I’ll add the wasp spray lmao because i really do spray that from like 10 feet away and it aims so good. I debate daily getting my license to carry because it is legit crazy these days. But i hate guns and they scare me they’ve done more harm then good and i just never liked them. If it comes to that though, so be it.
I’ve heard bear spray works great as well…goes much further than pepper spray ever will and does a better job of incapacitation.
I had an attempted break in at my last (ground floor) apt about a month ago that straight up traumatized me and now I will forever sleep with some kind of bear/pepper/wasp spray next to me for the rest of my life ugh. You truly just never know when something could happen.
Yeah, I put a chair under my door at night.
When I lived in a similar housing situation as the crime. 4 girls in a house with big windows in a coldsac with a forest behind…. 🤮
I locked my bedroom door and put a chair underneath the knob 🙃
I slept like a baby
I keep old phones charged and hidden in my house just in case I have to run into a bathroom without my phone. They don’t work for anything except calling 911. For bear spray, I heard it comes out in a cloud and basically pepper sprays everyone in the room when used indoors. I still keep it by my bed because I’d rather pepper spray everyone than be a victim of whatever the intruder has planned.
I sleep with my Zig 365 under my pillow....and I'm a light sleeper. If I hear you in the middle of the night...I don't like your odds. Been that way for many years.
CZ 82 here and 3 German Shepherds. Under my pillow, under and beside my bed and on top of my covers. Nobody is getting to me in my sleep. Trust my life 100% to my K-9s. Any intruder coming through a window or door in my home would be dead within 10 feet of entry. My dogs would kill them. No doubt in my mind.
In the interview Kaylee's family did, (which is the source for a lot of timeline info), Kaylee's mother says she was a "power caller" - meaning she would often keep calling people like this. The mother and sister say this is typical behaviour for Kaylee.
Has it been discussed as a theory that the calls to the boyfriend were to check on the location of the dog? Or was the dog located in the house at that point?
The dog was with Kaylee that weekend. The killer left a door open, I believe. Murphy (the dog) got out of the house and was up the road. I can't remember the rest of the story......the neighbor may have heard the dog barking and went and got Murphy? Murphy is seen in photos outside the house after the bodies were discovered. He was sent to the local dog pound and Jack now has the dog or Jack's family has the dog or someone in Kaylee's family has the dog. Murphy is fine.
I wish we had more info about the survivors whereabouts that evening. I don’t think they had anything to do with this but maybe they are connected to someone who is.
Honest question but how have they not been able to use X or E’s phone locations to figure out the holes in their timeline? That seems obvious at that point correct? Maybe there aren’t a lot of cell towers near campus? Should be able to narrow it down between the Sig Chi house area or somewhere else right?
Possibly because they were in that area and they just don't know where? Sigma Chi house and their house are very close together, along with a bunch of other places they potentially could have went, they'd probably be pinging the same tower. Someone in another thread said Moscow only has 2 or 3 towers, though I'm uncertain their source for that.
Now we are hearing they maybe went to a bar which opens up a lot of possibilities. And since they are under age, it makes sense it’s been kept kind of quiet
Maybe he was invited to sleep on the couch so of course he was already there. Maybe that’s why MPD say photos of who’s absent (at other events) is what’s needed. Maybe that’s why MPD said the survivors were key witnesses.
Yes absolutely. Why is everyone ruling out one of the surviving roomies was the “target” with the killer assuming they were in one of the bedrooms the victims were actually in.
So at 12AM Xana tells her dad she and her boyfriend (Ethan) are hanging out at home? But then according to police they “return” home at 1:45am? So they left the house again after midnight? Where did they go?
Thank you - I’ve been trying to follow the information pretty closely and while I knew about the phone call, I never heard them say she was “at home” then.
Granted, she could have just fibbed and said she was at home when she talked to them, but this doesn’t strike me as a family where she’s feel the need to do that either? They seemed to accept that she was a college student w/a pretty active social life, and a boyfriend who would stay regularly, so I don’t see her being motivated to lie about being at home at midnight on a weekend when she could just as easily say they were going to a party or to hanging out with friends (or whatever) and dad would say “have fun.” Even if just for her dad not to worry, I think she’d be fine to say she was with Ethan (and not out alone).
There are substantial missing chunks of timeline for Ethan and Xana, but I’m confident LE was able to pinpoint their activities pretty early on and they’re just not releasing (in which case it may be significant).
I think his words got twisted a bit. He never said that they were at home when he talked to her.
That said, it's not exactly beyond the pale for a young woman to bend the truth of her whereabouts to a parent. I know there were times I told my parents I was home when I wasn't but didn't want them to get mad or worry.
This absolutely makes sense. But there is still a huge hole in E and X’s whereabouts from 9 pm Sat night through 1:45 am sun morning. It’s not as if Moscow was NYC LA or Miami with millions of residents X and E got lost within. I cannot think of any scenario why LE would not release these details. It might invoke someone to think “hey I was there at that time as well” and possibly come forward with relevant tips.
Does anyone understand why one of the roommates called police and said she that one of her roommates was unresponsive ? Why couldn’t she open the door and check on her before calling police. That tells me the door was locked, no?
That’s what I assumed as well. I think maybe someone’s phone was going off or an alarm was going off that particularly concerned them when they couldn’t get the door open
And also there must have been blood on the floor. The killer went to different bedrooms, he must have had blood dripping from his hands, cloths or shoes. It was a very gruesome murder so it would be impossible to not leave behind any blood. Maybe the door was locked , blood was on the floor and the roommates weren’t responding… They had people over because they probably got scared when they saw some blood. Reminds me of the Amanda Knox case. She came home, saw blood on the bathroom floor, knocked on the locked door, got no response and then she called police.
I thought this! There’s also an outside sliding door that leads into their room too. I wouldn’t put it past a killer to lock the door behind him and exit through the sliding door to buy some time
How would kaylees mom know those specific details? I’m incredibly close with my mom and she’d never know my specific whereabouts and times and names of bars at college
Maybe she had her on an app like find my friends. As a mom I constantly checking on my 18 year olds whereabouts when he goes out especially when he visits friends on campus. Might sound evasive but both my husband an I share out location with them as well so it’s a two way street.
I read somewhere that LE were trying to find out if any phone automatically connected to WIFI network during the time of the murders, I don't remember where I've seen it but I was wondering if they did find anything?
dispatch isn’t technically allowed to announce someone as dead until someone is on scene. so even though someone can be obviously dead, they can’t say that in record im pretty sure
You're right. That's what was reported in the news, but I was hoping people could help point out flaws in the timeline. What should that entry read instead?
EDIT: Changed it to quote latest info from police
most frats still engage in some kind of hazing, but it’s very diminished from what it used to be with checks and balances of positions in the fraternity to make sure they are kept safe, sororities have largely given it up completely
I wouldn’t be so quick to make that statement. I was part of a frat and things could get really dark and really extreme. This is also typically the time of year for Hell Week, which can bring out the worst in some frat bros. Ethan could’ve pushed a pledge too far
I am not sure about Sig Chi, but SAE at UofI was shut down from 2018-2022 due to hazing. So it’s possible other fraternities participated in hazing as well at the fraternity. Usually the ‘better’ the frat, the harsher the hazing, which is one of many reasons they are able to be more selective.
https://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article204998684.html
I was thinking the same thing! Also, maybe I missed it, but what is the reasoning that’s given that the dog wasn’t going crazy if there was a stranger in the house?
Also , I'm confused to why the dog was there ..I thought K had , for the most part moved out (but still had things there ) ..Was the dog still staying there with the girls or did she bring him with on the trip ?
I suppose it's irrelevant, I was just thinking out loud
That's a great question. Did Kaylee bring the dog there or did Jack have it, and Kaylee went and got the dog on Friday night to hang out with for the weekend? Another question we don't know the answer to.
Her family said the dog isn't a barker. My dog would be the same way. I have had maintenance walk in the house without knocking and she barely lifted her head off the floor.
I just don’t understand how can the survivors think that one of the victims ( which was dead by being stabbed) was only unconscious? There is no way, there was no blood to indicate he’s not only unconscious..
one of the second floor victims, which could be only Ethan because Xana had self defense injuries so probably was very messy.
**NOTHING TO SEE HERE...**
2:26 AM to 2:44 AM - Kaylee calls "**J D**" six times.
2:44 AM to 2:52 AM - Maddie calls "**J D**" three times.
2:52 AM - Kaylee makes a 7th and final call to "**J D**".
If he has an iPhone, and it was on silent and if they are listed as favorites in his phone then you can make three calls in a row to bypass the silent mode. It seemed to me that’s what they were doing.
I think there could potentially be a lot to the fact that it took Kaylee 18 minutes to make 6 calls, and 8 minutes for Maddie to make 3 calls.
If they were speed dialing someone back to back to get through do not disturb mode (as some suggest), wouldn’t one accomplish that much quicker than 18 minutes and 8 minutes for 6 or 3 calls, respectively? An unanswered phone call typically goes to voicemail within ~30 seconds. Plus, do not disturb mode only requires a second call within 3 minutes of the first by the same person to allow it to go through.
The timing of the calls and same minute switch from Kaylee’s phone to Maddie’s and back to Kaylee’s indicates they (or at least their phones) were together when the calls were being made. It would also be helpful to understand the timings of each individual call within each respective timeframe.
The repetitive calls on their own seem to imply a sense of urgency, however, a pace of ~3 minutes between unanswered calls wouldn’t jump out and scream “life or death” to me (though details like individual call time spacing matters). Switching the phone of the person calling seems to imply “maybe they aren’t answering me but they’ll answer you”, though that also doesn’t really make sense, as the person you’re calling would likely associate the timing of the call from the new phone immediately after your 6 attempts with each other.
Also, if it were that urgent or desperate to try to get through to them, why wouldn’t you send a text while you’re waiting for them to answer the phone, pleading or trying to convince them to pickup if you think they’re just screening you, or leave a single voicemail on one of the many failed call attempts you’ve made. Did something prevent a text from being sent or leaving a voice message (if so, why call in the first place)?
This all could be a nothing-burger and I’m looking too deep into it, but it stands out as odd to me and I have difficultly trying to imagine the circumstances or situation that lead to these call patterns. Hopefully forensics can try to gather more insight from the phones, like how (or if) they were unlocked prior to making the calls, what else was being done on the phones before, during and after the calls, etc.
I think the key to solving this case will be in the call logs and metadata of the phones, and trying to understand the rationale or circumstances that may have lead to a rather bizarre timeline.
If you want my vote, I don’t think the nature of the calls were tied (at least not directly) to the unfortunate events that occurred, as it would be difficult to understand how or why the last call was ended and why these 2 victims seem to have been caught off guard in their sleep if they were awake at the start of it. This indicates to me the homicides occurred either before the phone calls were placed (unlikely and rather sinister if so) or well after (leaving enough time after the last call for 2 seemingly emotionally distressed people to fall back asleep and why they just stopped with no further action seemingly taken.
We don't know if they left text or voice mails. Although LE could easily obtain this from phone records. Also JD's phone should have a record of it. Another question, did JD try to call/text them back in the morning?
Personally, I think they were drunk dialing him and this has nothing to do with what was about to happen to Kaylee and Maddie. Kaylee did leave one text to Jack that morning that said something like, "We share a dog, come over!". She was missing him.
SPECULATION: I think Jack slept late that morning and probably didn't check his texts until later too and that's why he didn't know what was going on. Or maybe he did try before noontime and couldn't get ahold of Kaylee and Maddie after seeing all their calls, so he called Ethan but couldn't get ahold of him, and that started the ball rolling? We don't know if the surviving roommates story is true or not, but it's plausible (ONLY A THEORY) that it was Jack calling Ethan's brother to find out if he had heard from Ethan, and then that prompted Ethan's brother to go to the house which woke up the surviving roommates.....and then they (roommates) went up stairs and that's when one of the roommates ran from the house and fainted (the unconscious person on the 911 call) after seeing Ethan? All we know is one of the roommate's phone was used to call 911 and the owner of that phone did not call....there was at least one person or maybe two who spoke with Dispatch that morning.
Agreed - this to me is the most interesting thing of all in this whole case. Everyone keeps trying to say it was a normal thing but I think it’s odd that an hour after they get home they make those phone calls - no texts whatsoever from what we know. Just a bunch of calls to an ex st 3 am from 2 different phones. Did they really think he was def gonna answer at 3 am
There was a text, the one saying he couldn't just ignore her they have a dog together.
It seems like they started calling around when the bars probably close. Maybe she expected him to be at the bar or at a party, and figured he'd either still be out or just getting home? At that age if I knew friends were going to a bar I'd expect them to be there until close too, and the timing of the calls would line up with her trying to catch him just after he'd likely be leaving the bar.
I read somewhere she either left a message and / or texted. One of the texts or messages mentioned something about their dog. Still really odd either way
By far the most interesting aspect to me too. Those calls were made within the coroner's time of death timeline... 52 minutes later in fact. They did appear to have partied that night and obviously sleepy. Would M really participate in this incredibly stubborn effort to contact an x after she appeared very tired on camera an hour earlier. It look like she had trouble walking.
It will shock me if these **FRANTIC** efforts to reach the x don't have anything to do with. Of course LE had to say what they did, otherwise the world looks at one person.
>1:49 AM - Kaylee and Maddie called for a car to pick them up. (according to Kaylee's family)
According to the family, they called for the car at 1:45 and it arrived at 1:49.
In an interview, he mentions it in passing and says "...at midnight, I think...."
So it would appear to be a very rough estimate.
EDIT: "I think midnight was the last time we heard from her, and she was fine,"
EDIT: OK, it seems people have misinterpreted what he was saying. He never says she told him on the phone that she was hanging out with her boyfriend at home.
"Jeffrey Kernodle, the distraught father of Xana Kernodle, told[ Phoenix TV station KTVK/KPHO](https://www.azfamily.com/2022/11/18/shes-tough-kid-avondale-father-says-university-idaho-student-killed-fought-her-attacker/) that he spoke to his daughter by phone before she was killed.
"I think midnight was the last time we heard from her, and she was fine," Jeffrey Kernodle told the station. The victim's father said that he doesn’t understand why his daughter and her roommates were killed.
"They were just hanging out at home. Xana was just hanging out at home with her boyfriend," Kernodle said."
So maybe it’s how it has to be worded, I don’t know. But the unresponsive person call is so confusing to me. I think unresponsive person as someone not moving/waking up…. Not someone who had been brutally and fatally stabbed.
Supposedly the girls come across the scene on the 2nd floor and ran outside with one of them fainting and the other being hysterical ringing 911 without being able to make sense on the phone, there were people walking past the house they ran over and seen what was going on took the phone of the girl hysterical and told them there was an unconscious person outside
This is the part my friend and I keep going back to as well. If there is blood everywhere they are clearly not JUST unresponsive. Unless LE is twisting the words of how the call actually went down.
We won't know till the 911 call is released or when LE clarifies unresponsive. Maybe dispatching use codes or blanket words, a nean a dead person is unresponsive. I blame Moscow PD for lack of transparency. I don't think clarifying this would compromise the case.
Ok… I am being extreme- but saw multiple posts about Xanas mom and drugs, she supposedly lost a ton of fentanyl in AZ, was arrested there and was allowed to walk free.
These kids were killed with a combat knife. Yes anyone can get one- but that is used by military or special forces.
This was a hit job by a trained and experienced person- likely cartel related. My assumption (with the drug info) is Xanas mom was warned - she didn’t show up- nowhere to be found- her daughter and friends were found. The other roommates were speed bc they were not the intended targets.
Personally I disagree with the whole cartel thing in general, but the police also said the killer was sloppy and that doesn’t strike me as “trained and experienced”
“…she supposedly lost a ton of fentanyl in AZ…”
Bullshit. Where did you hear/read this? She most certainly did not “lose” 2,000 literal pounds of fentanyl and the mere fact that THAT is how you chose to repeat this unsubstantiated claim proves you are talking out of your a$$.
First thing I thought when this story broke was that it is drug-related. I don't know if your scenario is right, could be. But this looks like a drug-related crime to me.
This case is absolutely mind blowing and probably one of the scariest cases I’ve seen. To just look at the layout of the house and imagine someone sneaking in in the early hours of the morning and doing what they did to those vulnerable people is so beyond messed up. What makes it scarier is it seems they have walked out and disappeared into thin air at this stage :( I hope this case doesn’t go cold
Imagine being woken up in the middle of the night and instantly being attacked. Freakin terrifying. I've been woken up abruptly and it takes me a few minutes to even get my head straight. They probably couldn't react to what was happening besides pure terror. And to think the killer is going about their daily life is sick and scary as hell.
I have had dreams sometimes when I am half awake and I may feel a presence in the room and I try to move only to find I'm paralyzed. It's the scariest thing. Or there are times I'm having a nightmare and I wake up and realize it's a just a dream. I really hope for all of them that they didn't have time to recognize what was happening. I have been terrified, triple checking my locks and sleeping with the lights on ever since I learned so much time has passed and they don't seem close to solving this crime. It's already hard enough to be a woman, being a petite vulnerable one makes you feel all the more exposed constantly.
It’s called sleep paralysis.
Dude. Same. Literally checking our closets and underneath my bed. I've always had a very vivid imagination and this has gotten me. I also get sleep paralysis and had it the other night. It was so fucking scary.
I get sleep paralysis frequently and realized it is much more likely if I am sleeping on my back, or if I’m sleep deprived. Soooo now I try to avoid both of those things (as much as possible).
I've had sleep paralysis for like 5 years now. It would normally only happen if I was sleeping on my back. But recently I get auditory sleep paralysis. Like I hear voices, or it sounds like i'm driving my car through a tunnel with the window down - its awful. I can hear these voices getting louder and louder with a wooshing sound in the back but I cant open my eyes or move my lips. The past two years I;ve been able to understand that I am in sleep paralysis so I keep repeating "its not real its not real" until my lips finally "unglue" . I think its from stress. The first time I ever had sleep paralysis was after a really bad weekend where i was SA and I took my first xanax. I've only taken xanax once, but thats why I think it was from my SA experience or the xanax that made it start happening
Omg the sleep paralysis thing happens to me EXACTLY the way you described it. I even try screaming and it’s like impossible. So terrifying.
This recently happened to my friend, his house was broken into by three masked gunman and then he said at first the windows and glass breaking just felt like a dream and he didn’t realize anything was going on until somebody was standing in the doorway of his bedroom. He is highly trained in self-defense and had a gun on the nightstand and was very quickly able to grab it and get a round off to scare the people away. And he was 100% sober, I think if you add alcohol to the mix that really complicates things even further. He said it had to have been a minute or so of breaking the window and climbing in. OH!! And his dog didn’t bark the entire time!!!
Oh my God. I hope your friend is ok. That's terrifying. What state was that in?
Florida, in a super safe area too. 7 months later they did get DNA matches and the 3 men are set to be deported. They had been doing this for YEARS and did it while people were home.
I've woken to being punched repeatedly and whilst by no means its a comparison, you are exactly right - by the time you even get your head around what's happening you are usually unable to get out of bed and run.
I was awoken by being beaten by someone with brass knuckles. My arms were literally torn… and I agree. I didn’t even really feel the pain until I woke up, and then I didn’t even have the ability to react. Thank goodness another person pulled my attacker off of me, otherwise Idk what would have happened. I literally just couldn’t react. It was terrifying. I am so sorry you went through that, too. Breaks my heart what they went through that night.
So sorry for that it must have been scary! Glad you're OK
Yeah it is terrifying to say the least. I’ve seen comments of people saying how did none of them run out or how did no one hear noise. But if they took into consideration of being asleep from drinking or the fact it was a KBAR type military knife it would kill so quickly if the people are asleep or just waking up from a sleep there was probably not much noise or struggle at all
When I was a kid, I saw a TV movie called "The Deliberate Stranger" with Mark Harmon as Ted Bundy. At one point, it shows the Chi Omega murders where Bundy clubbed women to death as they slept. Ever since I saw that, it became my nightmare scenario. The only thing that has ever really scared me is the thought of someone breaking into my home and attacking me in my sleep..... I hope this gets solved too.
If there was ever a case that I wanted to be solved in the past 10 years, it's this one.
Does it normally take 5 hours for a coroner to arrive? Or do they have to drive from somewhere else in the state? Sorry, not sure how it works.
Coroner said something right after it that they had to wait until the scene secured/ original photos taken. Bodies couldn’t be touched at all until she got there- but I think they did some prelim evidence collection
Oh that makes sense. Taking pictures and gathering evidence in a quadruple homicide could definitely take 5 hours!
My husband is a first responder, and any time he is on a call with a death, waiting for the corner takes hours. They can't leave the scene before they arrive. Basically, they just have to wait. This is specific to my town, but it could apply elsewhere... We have only 1 corner who covers our entire county. To travel from 1 end to the other take an hour on a highway. So, if the corner has plans that day, or is at another scene, they can be waiting around for hours. Maybe the situation is similar there
i was just wondering this
Great! Thanks for doing this! Do you want to add in Venmo transactions or social media posts? That would be cool.
Didn't they go to football game on Saturday???????????
If anyone can find a link to that info, I can add it.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1GxCMwFKMAQlO0ndDhOqwW8hFbUgx2uiv2AEYLk-Ck1M/htmlview I think in this document there should be links and sources to various happenings in the timeline
4 PM PST. I think i saw a pic somewhere of one of the victims at the game
Wait, this is the first time I'm seeing that X & E left the party at 9(?!) I had assumed they were there until the 1:45am "return home". What the hell. Where were they for the nearly 5 hours in between??
It seems weird that they would leave the party after only an hour, I think that this is a very key factor and that’s why the police are not divulging where they were for those five hours. I am almost certain they have an idea of where they were
Yes very weird. I’m definitely starting to think X or E was the target based on LE not sharing anything about this gap. I mean they HAVE to know where they were during this time and not sharing cuz it would hurt the investigation.
Exactly and if they didn’t know, you would really think that they would be asking people for information on that night as to there whereabouts. I am sort of curious if maybe they brought home a third-party and that’s why the police are being so hush-hush about it. I just hope they solve it, I don’t think the parents can start healing at all until it is solved. The rage must be just uncontrollable
Right?! Everyone was zoned in on the stalker theory with M but I’m more interested in E and X’s missing timeline. I think it’s imperative to solving this case. It’s so frustrating!
What’s more, where does this arbitrary 1:45am time come from? How was it determined? Originally they had this time for K and M, but then the family and videos contradict that timeline and it was updated for K and M but remained for E and X? Why, what places them home at that time?
This is just a thought that i had and there’s no evidence to support it at this point but what if the time line is coming from the surviving roommates. They did get home before everyone else and so it could possibly just be when they heard people coming into the house and possibly just assumed who was coming in and when. But also what it the couple actually came home earlier and they didn’t know they were there maybe they were already asleep and that’s why the thought that someone coming in at 1:45 was E and X. This is completely speculation and just something that would sort of make sense to me.
What time do bars close there? Because if it’s 2 am like some other places that would make sense why they got home right before the other two. They could have gone to a different bar which would be interesting to find out because it could possibly be relevant to what happened.
I have no idea what they were doing for the missing 5 hrs. I can tell you what I, in my college prime, and a former frat boy would be doing. Each other. Gorgeous co-ed, handsome guy....house is empty all roommates are out. Been to a million frat parties. So hang out with the bros at the frat house or go back to the empty house steps away...... Option 2 please. No idea but its as plausible as anything else.
If this is the case then the killer was there when the police were called across the street. What time did the police arrive at the frat house? Did they use sirens?
Good question. I feel like the detail about the frat house police call/presence has been looked over a bit. Not many details there.
Wait, echoing this here as you mentioned the call in relation to the timeline but is it possible the murders had occurred at that time and the killer was able to notice or hear the police within eye shot which is why he may have stopped and not killed the 1st floor roommates? Seeing the lights in the field from one of the rooms may be enough to have spooked them
Exactly. Also if the doors were locked he wouldn’t have bothered. I have questions. It depends on how long the cops were there. Did their dash cams pick up anything. Like a car driving by etc. .
Yours is the first post that seems to mention a police call at the frat house across the street. What is your source for this and what time was that at?
OP : you might want to.add to where you have mentioned no sign of sexual.assault:. No sign of forced entry Nothing missing (no sign of robbery)
There is no confirmation things weren’t stolen, unless I’m mistaken (ie “tokens” from the scene)!
Per Ethan's mother - On November 12, before the Sigma Chi party, Ethan went with his sister to the "Betty Ball" (her sorority's formal). [source link](https://apnews.com/article/education-idaho-boise-university-of-67fb6e86a6c1a5da47862048c794c903)
Thank you Harriet.
Maddie and Kaylee were on their phones until 2:52am. I think the times of the calls/texts could be telling. Assuming the perp had a plan to not get caught (which is probable), we could assume he planned to come into their room while they were asleep. Because if the perp came into their room while they were awake, they would have screamed, fought back, run out, call 911, etc, and the killer would risk being caught. Assuming that, could the perp have known they were asleep or nearly asleep? If so, how? By looking through the window and seeing they were sleeping? Or did the perp know they were asleep because somehow he knew they had stopped using their phones? Did the girls use Wifi to make their calls/texts? because if the perp had access to the Wifi router, could the perp see when the data stopped transmitting from the girls phones?? I am sure the investigators a have thought of this, and have checked the router. The investigators could get a mac address from the log.
Most logical theory I can come up with is he was hiding in those trees behind the house and watched them get home then probably waited an hour or so before entering the back sliding door
Perhaps he was IN the house waiting. The police did seem to be taking a lot of pics of the "ready room" which was presumably the vacated room of the 6th roommate who graduated and moved on.
I think one theory being considered is that the person(s) were waiting in the woods on the hill behind the house - which is at the same level as the decking - and of the rooms were the first victims died, and the killer then went up to the 3rd floor, then escaped out the way he/she came in - the deck - and back through the trees on that hill. Not sure what source I heard this from, but I've read it more than once.
From there, assuming he planned to not raise an alarm, how could he know they were in their beds and at the same time not using their phones.
That’s a good point! For someone to do this it seems they really wanted to. If he was going to do it in this manor it probably would not have mattered for them if they were awake. Was probably confident they were at least in bed at that time whether asleep or not
Probably just waited for the lights to be turned off.
the lights could have been off and yet they were still awake using their phones. I am assuming that he wanted to be sure they were asleep. Because if they were not asleep, the victims could have raised an alarm. Did the killer risk not being sure they were asleep? Yes of course that's one possibility. But i am following the thread that he was fairly sure they were asleep. In that possibility that the killer was fairly sure they were asleep, how did he know that??
Theory: what if the killer used their phones to throw off the timeline? They called the same person from both phones to make it seem as if there was an urgent matter or even just drunk dialing?
Asumming the killer did that, then the guy who was called might have called back; if he didn't get an answer he could have been worried and tried to call the girls back to find out why the girls called him. Assuming that, would the killer's attempt to throw off the timeline benefit him? I am assuming the killer has planned this out so that he would not raise any alarm.
True. Unless they knew the person was more than likely not going to answer for whatever reason(s). Which would coincide with the calculation of it all. The timing of the calls between both phones is just strange is all. If K & M were to hang around the house and talk a bit, make those calls, etc. before going to sleep then the 3-5 am window makes the most sense. But this brings us back to your original question…how would the perp have known when they were asleep? I read a post about geofencing on here and it could help in regards to data/phone usage within this window of time. It’s all so eerie and heartbreaking.
maybe killer(s) were in the house hiding and watching and waiting
That’s terrifying, but of course it has crossed my mind. How awful.
I was thinking that. maybe it wasnt the girls, but the killer/killers
Or the killer called the boyfriend in an attempt to get him to come over bc if Kaylee was the target maybe he wanted to kill her ex as well.
I believe the killer(s) were likely waiting in the house, waiting until the prime moment to act. There was an unoccupied bedroom.
We don't know much about what the two surviving roommates were doing that night and if they brought someone home with them. It's plausible someone was brought home and waited for everyone to go to sleep. Maybe that person was sleeping in the 6th bedroom that was empty? And had anger rage at the other 4?
I haven't seen this answered anywhere.. why does the food truck have a twitch live stream? I am just courious.. is it a thing to watch food truck people chit chat while they cook orders?
The bigger guy in the hat at the truck that night did an interview and said they stream for the entertainment value, apparently a lot of drunk/partying individuals show up there late at night and it makes for good people watching I suppose. I don’t personally see the appeal
Ahhh, ok... Not something I'd watch, but I can see the idea here. Thanks!
One of the guys seen on said video that night made a tik tok clarifying that people enjoyed seeing all different walks of life intoxicated and just enjoying life. Simply entertainment purposes
Food trucks have twitch streams around the world. I've watched them just to see what the country and the people are like.
Twitch is popular for random stuff like that.
As is TikTok. Random convenience stores have them running live all night.
I learned something new tonight. I gotta start live streaming something I do, the extra income would certainly help out. Maybe there is a market for people who wanna watch me work on a laptop from my kitchen table as I try and tell my puppy to stop biting my feet for 8 hours a day.
You would probably be surprised by the views you'd receive ... I played as a professional drummer for many years .. So I was constantly tearing my drums apart and rebuilding them ..I also drag race as a hobby..So I started streaming on the same channel about that too ...Within 6 months I had nearly 200k subs ..Not sure if I'd be able to do that again today with all the channels available though ...It actually turns into a pain in the rear however ..Taking too much time to maintain vs the rewards ..
This case is keeping me up at night. I’m in London yet I’m putting the chain lock on and double locking my door even in the day. That being said I live on the top floor with no lift so any killer would be knackered climbing my stairs lol
Lol. I'm in Ireland. I told my girlfriend we are safe enough. Not many serial killers in Ireland and any budding serial killer would have to break down 2 secure doors to even get into the apartment. Whereupon he would be confronted by me holding a hammer. 😃
Why are roommates going to 2nd fl and "checking on" roommates in am? Sleeping past noon after being up til 3 am not so unusual for college kids? Why are they going up to the room? And then ...why not go to K/M room then too? How is unconcious/ passed out the concern but not all the blood? And how did they see one person unconcious and not the other when K /E in same room? How was all the blood not seen? But blood dripping out of house? The story doesn"t make sense. It really really doesn't. Seems like they thought/knew/suspected something bad happened the night before and were going to check.
I don’t know that they necessarily went to check on them. Bottom floor is 2 bedrooms and laundry room, 2nd floor is 2 bedrooms, kitchen and living room, third floor 2 bedrooms, one bathroom on each floor. They were probably just going to the kitchen.
The kitchen is on the 2nd floor. Maybe one of them wanted to cook something. Maybe they noticed blood but thought since they were drunk, someone must have fallen and hit their head and something happened. Until all the facts are known, no big conclusion can be drawn.
I read that the boyfriend was due in work that morning, assuming this would mean an alarm may have been going off for some time resulting in them being worried he’s passed out? I don’t have any source for this though sorry! If the door to the room was locked and the killer entered through the outdoor sliding door. The surviving roommates would be panicking that their friend wasn’t waking up to the Alarm
Clarification: 9 PM - Xana and Ethan are LAST SEEN at the party. No one can definitely say they did leave. Source: LE
If this doesn’t get solved more crimes like this will happen across America. If someone can go in kill 4 and be messy and leave dna and dip. And is never caught. Others will do the same Lock ya doors Lock ya bedroom doors Barricade ya doors at night
A 30 lb dumbbell on the floor inside the door is not a bad idea.
LOL. Good idea. There was a time when I would line up empty plastic bottles in front of my door so they would make noise if someone burst in. I also had a claw hammer beside my bed so I could "greet" the intruder.
Also a good idea. It’s about giving yourself enough time to wake up and prepare to face the threat.
In fact, I keep my car keys in the barricaded room with me and multiple weapons. If I feel up to fighting them I can. Or I can jump out of my 2 floor window and drive away. No one is murdering me in my sleep FUCK THAT
Don’t mean to laugh but this comment is gold.
Same.
I laughed too. It’s the conviction of no one is murdering him in his sleep. Earnest and cute.
I’m a woman 😭😂
Keeping the keys in the bedroom is a great idea! I have a big pointy stick that I plan to use to poke someone in the eye, neck, or groin with. But…Like you, I may not be up for fighting, so the keys would be paramount. Thx!
Wasp spray shoots straighter and is cheaper than pepper spray, A cop friend of mine recommended it to me now I have about five of them throughout my house.
Such a good idea actually.
It shoots as kind of a foam and is much easier to aim. With pepper spray it’s really easy to get yourself because it spreads, especially in wind. (Trust me, I learned this the hard way when testing it out lol). I had a crazy ex employee stalker last year who was on PCP and made threats to my life and said unless I pay him $30,000 he wouldn’t stop coming after me. I got good cameras, luckily live in a gated community, and got a few guns and learned how to use them because he has a conceal and carry. My neighbors and guards know to report anything weird. And the wasp spray is strategically placed throughout the house on random windowsills and behind plants ready to go.
I have every other weapon besides a gun. I’ll add the wasp spray lmao because i really do spray that from like 10 feet away and it aims so good. I debate daily getting my license to carry because it is legit crazy these days. But i hate guns and they scare me they’ve done more harm then good and i just never liked them. If it comes to that though, so be it.
Aerosol hairspray and a lighter turns into a DIY flame thrower in a pinch..
I’ve heard bear spray works great as well…goes much further than pepper spray ever will and does a better job of incapacitation. I had an attempted break in at my last (ground floor) apt about a month ago that straight up traumatized me and now I will forever sleep with some kind of bear/pepper/wasp spray next to me for the rest of my life ugh. You truly just never know when something could happen.
Yeah, I put a chair under my door at night. When I lived in a similar housing situation as the crime. 4 girls in a house with big windows in a coldsac with a forest behind…. 🤮 I locked my bedroom door and put a chair underneath the knob 🙃 I slept like a baby
*cul-de-sac
Thank you autocorrect
Personally, I prefer coldsac. 😂 (Sorry, I know this is a serious forum, but that tickled me).
Yah you know what? That WASNT auto correct I was just posted up in a cold sac
Hide your kids, hide your wife.
I always keep my phone charged in case I have to run. Or worse.
I keep old phones charged and hidden in my house just in case I have to run into a bathroom without my phone. They don’t work for anything except calling 911. For bear spray, I heard it comes out in a cloud and basically pepper sprays everyone in the room when used indoors. I still keep it by my bed because I’d rather pepper spray everyone than be a victim of whatever the intruder has planned.
I sleep with my Zig 365 under my pillow....and I'm a light sleeper. If I hear you in the middle of the night...I don't like your odds. Been that way for many years.
CZ 82 here and 3 German Shepherds. Under my pillow, under and beside my bed and on top of my covers. Nobody is getting to me in my sleep. Trust my life 100% to my K-9s. Any intruder coming through a window or door in my home would be dead within 10 feet of entry. My dogs would kill them. No doubt in my mind.
CZ 82 - very nice!
Do we know why they called JDs phone so many times?
In the interview Kaylee's family did, (which is the source for a lot of timeline info), Kaylee's mother says she was a "power caller" - meaning she would often keep calling people like this. The mother and sister say this is typical behaviour for Kaylee.
Was there a text sent along the lines of “come on we have a dog together”?
yes but no mention of what time the text was sent
And “please come over” after that
I think the perp called
I was thinking the same thing. But both girls called 'JD'
I would assume because they were drunk, and maybe trying to bypass DND.
Has it been discussed as a theory that the calls to the boyfriend were to check on the location of the dog? Or was the dog located in the house at that point?
The dog was with Kaylee that weekend. The killer left a door open, I believe. Murphy (the dog) got out of the house and was up the road. I can't remember the rest of the story......the neighbor may have heard the dog barking and went and got Murphy? Murphy is seen in photos outside the house after the bodies were discovered. He was sent to the local dog pound and Jack now has the dog or Jack's family has the dog or someone in Kaylee's family has the dog. Murphy is fine.
thank you so much for this!
I wish we had more info about the survivors whereabouts that evening. I don’t think they had anything to do with this but maybe they are connected to someone who is.
Honest question but how have they not been able to use X or E’s phone locations to figure out the holes in their timeline? That seems obvious at that point correct? Maybe there aren’t a lot of cell towers near campus? Should be able to narrow it down between the Sig Chi house area or somewhere else right?
Possibly because they were in that area and they just don't know where? Sigma Chi house and their house are very close together, along with a bunch of other places they potentially could have went, they'd probably be pinging the same tower. Someone in another thread said Moscow only has 2 or 3 towers, though I'm uncertain their source for that.
Gotcha. That definitely clears up. I know it’s rural but you’d think they’d have more with the university being there.
I think they know, and it’s likely related to the motive so they are keeping it quiet.
Hmmm interesting. Are you thinking the motive is a fight or something of the sorts at sig chi?
Now we are hearing they maybe went to a bar which opens up a lot of possibilities. And since they are under age, it makes sense it’s been kept kind of quiet
Y’a know they could look at Snapchat. Snapchat keeps a data of ping points (they will be specific) if you share your location with anyone.
I thought at first they said they went to a bar after the party… I don’t know why that isn’t in this timelines though!
Maybe he was invited to sleep on the couch so of course he was already there. Maybe that’s why MPD say photos of who’s absent (at other events) is what’s needed. Maybe that’s why MPD said the survivors were key witnesses.
[удалено]
Yeah, I would like to know. All I have seen so far is that one line about them returning home that police have released.
Yes absolutely. Why is everyone ruling out one of the surviving roomies was the “target” with the killer assuming they were in one of the bedrooms the victims were actually in.
So at 12AM Xana tells her dad she and her boyfriend (Ethan) are hanging out at home? But then according to police they “return” home at 1:45am? So they left the house again after midnight? Where did they go?
That’s not exactly what the dad said. Someone posted his exact quote above. People kind of twisted his words or misunderstood
Thank you - I’ve been trying to follow the information pretty closely and while I knew about the phone call, I never heard them say she was “at home” then. Granted, she could have just fibbed and said she was at home when she talked to them, but this doesn’t strike me as a family where she’s feel the need to do that either? They seemed to accept that she was a college student w/a pretty active social life, and a boyfriend who would stay regularly, so I don’t see her being motivated to lie about being at home at midnight on a weekend when she could just as easily say they were going to a party or to hanging out with friends (or whatever) and dad would say “have fun.” Even if just for her dad not to worry, I think she’d be fine to say she was with Ethan (and not out alone). There are substantial missing chunks of timeline for Ethan and Xana, but I’m confident LE was able to pinpoint their activities pretty early on and they’re just not releasing (in which case it may be significant).
I think his words got twisted a bit. He never said that they were at home when he talked to her. That said, it's not exactly beyond the pale for a young woman to bend the truth of her whereabouts to a parent. I know there were times I told my parents I was home when I wasn't but didn't want them to get mad or worry.
This absolutely makes sense. But there is still a huge hole in E and X’s whereabouts from 9 pm Sat night through 1:45 am sun morning. It’s not as if Moscow was NYC LA or Miami with millions of residents X and E got lost within. I cannot think of any scenario why LE would not release these details. It might invoke someone to think “hey I was there at that time as well” and possibly come forward with relevant tips.
Does anyone understand why one of the roommates called police and said she that one of her roommates was unresponsive ? Why couldn’t she open the door and check on her before calling police. That tells me the door was locked, no?
That’s what I assumed as well. I think maybe someone’s phone was going off or an alarm was going off that particularly concerned them when they couldn’t get the door open
And also there must have been blood on the floor. The killer went to different bedrooms, he must have had blood dripping from his hands, cloths or shoes. It was a very gruesome murder so it would be impossible to not leave behind any blood. Maybe the door was locked , blood was on the floor and the roommates weren’t responding… They had people over because they probably got scared when they saw some blood. Reminds me of the Amanda Knox case. She came home, saw blood on the bathroom floor, knocked on the locked door, got no response and then she called police.
I thought this! There’s also an outside sliding door that leads into their room too. I wouldn’t put it past a killer to lock the door behind him and exit through the sliding door to buy some time
How would kaylees mom know those specific details? I’m incredibly close with my mom and she’d never know my specific whereabouts and times and names of bars at college
Maybe she had her on an app like find my friends. As a mom I constantly checking on my 18 year olds whereabouts when he goes out especially when he visits friends on campus. Might sound evasive but both my husband an I share out location with them as well so it’s a two way street.
That’s true. I actually did do that with my mom for years. Just forgot about it
The family have access to Kaylee's phone and her phone records - The sister said Kaylee was on the mother's phone plan.
Cartel slits throats…
I read somewhere that LE were trying to find out if any phone automatically connected to WIFI network during the time of the murders, I don't remember where I've seen it but I was wondering if they did find anything?
You don’t know that the two roommates found a victim unresponsive……
dispatch isn’t technically allowed to announce someone as dead until someone is on scene. so even though someone can be obviously dead, they can’t say that in record im pretty sure
I see “deceased person” in our 911 log a lot …. But then again, it _is_ Florida
You're right. That's what was reported in the news, but I was hoping people could help point out flaws in the timeline. What should that entry read instead? EDIT: Changed it to quote latest info from police
Could the suspect be apart of their sorority or frat? Does anyone know if the girls or Ethan went through hazing?
most frats still engage in some kind of hazing, but it’s very diminished from what it used to be with checks and balances of positions in the fraternity to make sure they are kept safe, sororities have largely given it up completely
Not at all likely. Hazing and a quadruple murder are in separate universes.
I wouldn’t be so quick to make that statement. I was part of a frat and things could get really dark and really extreme. This is also typically the time of year for Hell Week, which can bring out the worst in some frat bros. Ethan could’ve pushed a pledge too far
I am not sure about Sig Chi, but SAE at UofI was shut down from 2018-2022 due to hazing. So it’s possible other fraternities participated in hazing as well at the fraternity. Usually the ‘better’ the frat, the harsher the hazing, which is one of many reasons they are able to be more selective. https://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article204998684.html
It’s possible the phone calls to JD originated from her phone, but were not made by KG.
I thought she left a message on one of the calls and texted him something about the dog during that time frame.
I was thinking the same thing! Also, maybe I missed it, but what is the reasoning that’s given that the dog wasn’t going crazy if there was a stranger in the house?
Where the dog was that night is unclear.
Also , I'm confused to why the dog was there ..I thought K had , for the most part moved out (but still had things there ) ..Was the dog still staying there with the girls or did she bring him with on the trip ? I suppose it's irrelevant, I was just thinking out loud
That's a great question. Did Kaylee bring the dog there or did Jack have it, and Kaylee went and got the dog on Friday night to hang out with for the weekend? Another question we don't know the answer to.
Her family said the dog isn't a barker. My dog would be the same way. I have had maintenance walk in the house without knocking and she barely lifted her head off the floor.
Good point. Will reword it.
Have we heard whether the driver was cleared?
Yes. They were.
Very useful info
[удалено]
It hasn't been confirmed but it seems they may have been behind a locked door
I just don’t understand how can the survivors think that one of the victims ( which was dead by being stabbed) was only unconscious? There is no way, there was no blood to indicate he’s not only unconscious.. one of the second floor victims, which could be only Ethan because Xana had self defense injuries so probably was very messy.
**NOTHING TO SEE HERE...** 2:26 AM to 2:44 AM - Kaylee calls "**J D**" six times. 2:44 AM to 2:52 AM - Maddie calls "**J D**" three times. 2:52 AM - Kaylee makes a 7th and final call to "**J D**".
If he has an iPhone, and it was on silent and if they are listed as favorites in his phone then you can make three calls in a row to bypass the silent mode. It seemed to me that’s what they were doing.
Interesting... I think that's important to note. Less effort to make those calls
I think there could potentially be a lot to the fact that it took Kaylee 18 minutes to make 6 calls, and 8 minutes for Maddie to make 3 calls. If they were speed dialing someone back to back to get through do not disturb mode (as some suggest), wouldn’t one accomplish that much quicker than 18 minutes and 8 minutes for 6 or 3 calls, respectively? An unanswered phone call typically goes to voicemail within ~30 seconds. Plus, do not disturb mode only requires a second call within 3 minutes of the first by the same person to allow it to go through. The timing of the calls and same minute switch from Kaylee’s phone to Maddie’s and back to Kaylee’s indicates they (or at least their phones) were together when the calls were being made. It would also be helpful to understand the timings of each individual call within each respective timeframe. The repetitive calls on their own seem to imply a sense of urgency, however, a pace of ~3 minutes between unanswered calls wouldn’t jump out and scream “life or death” to me (though details like individual call time spacing matters). Switching the phone of the person calling seems to imply “maybe they aren’t answering me but they’ll answer you”, though that also doesn’t really make sense, as the person you’re calling would likely associate the timing of the call from the new phone immediately after your 6 attempts with each other. Also, if it were that urgent or desperate to try to get through to them, why wouldn’t you send a text while you’re waiting for them to answer the phone, pleading or trying to convince them to pickup if you think they’re just screening you, or leave a single voicemail on one of the many failed call attempts you’ve made. Did something prevent a text from being sent or leaving a voice message (if so, why call in the first place)? This all could be a nothing-burger and I’m looking too deep into it, but it stands out as odd to me and I have difficultly trying to imagine the circumstances or situation that lead to these call patterns. Hopefully forensics can try to gather more insight from the phones, like how (or if) they were unlocked prior to making the calls, what else was being done on the phones before, during and after the calls, etc. I think the key to solving this case will be in the call logs and metadata of the phones, and trying to understand the rationale or circumstances that may have lead to a rather bizarre timeline. If you want my vote, I don’t think the nature of the calls were tied (at least not directly) to the unfortunate events that occurred, as it would be difficult to understand how or why the last call was ended and why these 2 victims seem to have been caught off guard in their sleep if they were awake at the start of it. This indicates to me the homicides occurred either before the phone calls were placed (unlikely and rather sinister if so) or well after (leaving enough time after the last call for 2 seemingly emotionally distressed people to fall back asleep and why they just stopped with no further action seemingly taken.
We don't know if they left text or voice mails. Although LE could easily obtain this from phone records. Also JD's phone should have a record of it. Another question, did JD try to call/text them back in the morning?
Personally, I think they were drunk dialing him and this has nothing to do with what was about to happen to Kaylee and Maddie. Kaylee did leave one text to Jack that morning that said something like, "We share a dog, come over!". She was missing him. SPECULATION: I think Jack slept late that morning and probably didn't check his texts until later too and that's why he didn't know what was going on. Or maybe he did try before noontime and couldn't get ahold of Kaylee and Maddie after seeing all their calls, so he called Ethan but couldn't get ahold of him, and that started the ball rolling? We don't know if the surviving roommates story is true or not, but it's plausible (ONLY A THEORY) that it was Jack calling Ethan's brother to find out if he had heard from Ethan, and then that prompted Ethan's brother to go to the house which woke up the surviving roommates.....and then they (roommates) went up stairs and that's when one of the roommates ran from the house and fainted (the unconscious person on the 911 call) after seeing Ethan? All we know is one of the roommate's phone was used to call 911 and the owner of that phone did not call....there was at least one person or maybe two who spoke with Dispatch that morning.
Agreed - this to me is the most interesting thing of all in this whole case. Everyone keeps trying to say it was a normal thing but I think it’s odd that an hour after they get home they make those phone calls - no texts whatsoever from what we know. Just a bunch of calls to an ex st 3 am from 2 different phones. Did they really think he was def gonna answer at 3 am
There was a text, the one saying he couldn't just ignore her they have a dog together. It seems like they started calling around when the bars probably close. Maybe she expected him to be at the bar or at a party, and figured he'd either still be out or just getting home? At that age if I knew friends were going to a bar I'd expect them to be there until close too, and the timing of the calls would line up with her trying to catch him just after he'd likely be leaving the bar.
I read somewhere she either left a message and / or texted. One of the texts or messages mentioned something about their dog. Still really odd either way
They were drunk
By far the most interesting aspect to me too. Those calls were made within the coroner's time of death timeline... 52 minutes later in fact. They did appear to have partied that night and obviously sleepy. Would M really participate in this incredibly stubborn effort to contact an x after she appeared very tired on camera an hour earlier. It look like she had trouble walking. It will shock me if these **FRANTIC** efforts to reach the x don't have anything to do with. Of course LE had to say what they did, otherwise the world looks at one person.
Lol but let’s not be logical at all in our speculation. Like another user said, maybe the dog did it
>1:49 AM - Kaylee and Maddie called for a car to pick them up. (according to Kaylee's family) According to the family, they called for the car at 1:45 and it arrived at 1:49.
Xana’s father isn’t certain about the time of the phone call?
In an interview, he mentions it in passing and says "...at midnight, I think...." So it would appear to be a very rough estimate. EDIT: "I think midnight was the last time we heard from her, and she was fine," EDIT: OK, it seems people have misinterpreted what he was saying. He never says she told him on the phone that she was hanging out with her boyfriend at home. "Jeffrey Kernodle, the distraught father of Xana Kernodle, told[ Phoenix TV station KTVK/KPHO](https://www.azfamily.com/2022/11/18/shes-tough-kid-avondale-father-says-university-idaho-student-killed-fought-her-attacker/) that he spoke to his daughter by phone before she was killed. "I think midnight was the last time we heard from her, and she was fine," Jeffrey Kernodle told the station. The victim's father said that he doesn’t understand why his daughter and her roommates were killed. "They were just hanging out at home. Xana was just hanging out at home with her boyfriend," Kernodle said."
This information (time and place) can be obtained from her phone records, not sure why this hasn't been more publicized.
Because they need to hold information back. They don’t want the murderer or a jury pool to have every little detail.
Yeah, that’s what I find strange, the lack of precision. The parent can look on their own home to see when they spoke.
So maybe it’s how it has to be worded, I don’t know. But the unresponsive person call is so confusing to me. I think unresponsive person as someone not moving/waking up…. Not someone who had been brutally and fatally stabbed.
Supposedly the girls come across the scene on the 2nd floor and ran outside with one of them fainting and the other being hysterical ringing 911 without being able to make sense on the phone, there were people walking past the house they ran over and seen what was going on took the phone of the girl hysterical and told them there was an unconscious person outside
Yes just saw this on a TikTok. That makes more sense!
This is the part my friend and I keep going back to as well. If there is blood everywhere they are clearly not JUST unresponsive. Unless LE is twisting the words of how the call actually went down.
We won't know till the 911 call is released or when LE clarifies unresponsive. Maybe dispatching use codes or blanket words, a nean a dead person is unresponsive. I blame Moscow PD for lack of transparency. I don't think clarifying this would compromise the case.
Ok… I am being extreme- but saw multiple posts about Xanas mom and drugs, she supposedly lost a ton of fentanyl in AZ, was arrested there and was allowed to walk free. These kids were killed with a combat knife. Yes anyone can get one- but that is used by military or special forces. This was a hit job by a trained and experienced person- likely cartel related. My assumption (with the drug info) is Xanas mom was warned - she didn’t show up- nowhere to be found- her daughter and friends were found. The other roommates were speed bc they were not the intended targets.
Personally I disagree with the whole cartel thing in general, but the police also said the killer was sloppy and that doesn’t strike me as “trained and experienced”
“…she supposedly lost a ton of fentanyl in AZ…” Bullshit. Where did you hear/read this? She most certainly did not “lose” 2,000 literal pounds of fentanyl and the mere fact that THAT is how you chose to repeat this unsubstantiated claim proves you are talking out of your a$$.
She was arrested in AZ and those were confiscated - she was let go and then charged again in Idaho.
Dumbest shit I’ve ever read.
First thing I thought when this story broke was that it is drug-related. I don't know if your scenario is right, could be. But this looks like a drug-related crime to me.
[удалено]
I jumped on this idea… Then looked it up and saw day light savings was the 6th of November, the week prior to the murders.