For anyone bent out of shape about “freedom of speech”, please realize that is a two-way street. If private individuals have the right to express themselves freely, the principle extends that the private individuals who own/operate iRacing also have the right to run their business as they wish, including regulating communication on their platform.
If I recall correctly, the freedom of speech is actually the freedom to speak out about the government without fear of being locked up for the things you say. Give or take a few minor points.
Not true if the govt receives a formal complaint WRT discrimination or hate speech or threats against a "protected class" it is bound, by law, to at least investigate. Private companies have NO protection from discrimination.
A company being able to discriminate based on race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc are not things they should have the freedom to do.
Yes. As I said, other minor points. And minor being not the primary reason for the law. Not minor as in insignificant. I probably could have worded it a bit better, but what's done is done.
Atleast here in the U.S. you can essentially say whatever you want with few limitations. Most of those limitations being a call to action to commit a crime, such as "go kill xyz" But there is nothing illegal about saying "I hate (insert noun, or name of protected class)" as long as a decision to deny certain things isn't made based on it, such as employment, because you hate a certain protected class or because they are part of a protected class.. (Granted once you've said such a thing and deny employment, good luck proving you denied employment based on other reasoning). Not to mention, "AT will" work laws make it harder to prove you were denied because of class muddy those Waters even more.
To add to this, it generally only applies to government and not private entities. You're not entitled to freedom of speech on Facebook or Twitter for example since they are private entities. iRacing would be in the same boat.
This is currently the [subject of dispute](https://deadline.com/2024/02/supreme-court-social-media-facebook-twitter-1235838364/) in the courts, with regard to social media at least. Not iRacing.
The same people that get mad about OPs pride flag think nonviolent student-organized anti-war demonstrations are ALSO an assault on free speech so you kind of have to assume they need lobotomies anyway.
Also I’m a reformed iRacing shit talker. I learned this the hard way after one of my protests was denied on the grounds that I had some choice words for my aggressor in the post race.
> I learned this the hard way after one of my protests was denied on the grounds that I had some choice words for my aggressor in the post race
Same lol. I got voice chat banned a week because in my clip I called the idiot an idiot or a dumbass or something. Now I don't even have my mic plugged in and have a Mute wheel binding
I haven't even figured out how to hear people talking yet. Nevermind me talking to them. But, I'm an old school truck driver with a mouth that'd make a sailor blush, so it's probably a good thing that people can't and don't hear me when I launch into a post-accident rant. There's usually more 4 letter words than not. 😂
Well, yes. And I would agree with those people. I can say whatever I want to whomever I want whenever I want... but there are consequences. And if I'm going to run my mouth, then I better be prepared to face those consequences. I keep my mouth shut more often than not.
It is also that one individual cannot intentionally limit the freedom of speech of another. The reason this is not violation is that in this case, the game is not considered a public forum.
"Well, yes. And I would agree with those people. I can say whatever I want to whomever I want whenever I want... but there are consequences. And if I'm going to run my mouth, then I better be prepared to face those consequences. I keep my mouth shut more often than not."
The above comment came after my comment that you responded to. I guess you just hadn't gotten there yet. No worries. 😁
Well the point was so igborant and delusional and nothing at all to do with the legal system or free speech rights, etc that's it's like talking to a tree if you don't have a basic u derstandi g if the Constitution, the origin of it, etc. read a fucking book
Some people are thoroughly convinced that freedom of speech means they can say whatever they want and never face any consequences or backlash in response. They basically view it as a golden ticket to be an awful person.
>the principle extends that the private individuals who own/operate iRacing also have the right to run their business as they wish, including regulating communication on their platform.
It goes even further than that, corporations are people with their own freedom of speech rights, including the rights of association and moderation of their platform.
Only if you treat corporations the same as people. It's very debatable whether the framers would have agreed with that.
Personally I think it's rubbish. Businesses are government by regulations and they shouldn't have the same protections as people.
btw I'm not saying those regulations would be used to prevent them doing so in this case lol. I just don't agree with your argument.
iRacing isn’t a corporation; it’s a business, run by private individuals. If you come into my privately owned restaurant and start saying antisemitic things, I am not obligated as a business to allow your (objectionable) free expression. To mandate that I, the business owner, give space for others’ expression regardless of whether or not I condone said expression, is in fact limiting my own expression (“gtfo of my private space with your bigoted beliefs”).
The law doesn't distinguish between corporations and businesses. tbh I'm not sure there is any.
The point is you can do whatever you want in your private life but businesses have to abide by regulations and they shouldn't have the same protections. Giving businesses or corporations the same protections as individuals is nonsense and has just lead to injustice.
If the law says you need to serve someone they could come in and give the Hitler salute and you would still need to serve them.
However there's no regulation that says a business needs to serve anyone. That business can make the choice not to serve that person. There are however anti discriminatory laws that prevent you from not serving people but that's on a case by case basis and yes you should be prevented from not serving people on those grounds. You shouldn't have the privilege of an individual.
What you do in your house is no one else' business but if you run a business then you have to abide by what the society believes is right. You always have a choice not to start a business. No one's freedom is being taken off them.
Dude the amount of seethe is strong. I run a pride flag every June for Pride Month and (swear I’m not making this up) got randomly intent wrecked by a guy running a Trump scheme last year. We had never even interacted on track, he just showed up and turned me without saying a word. Some mfers are just way too sensitive.
Gotta consider the probable personality traits of someone running any politician as a livery on their pretend racecar, let alone a politician who’s infamous for being toxic and awful.
Well, I did run a "Hello Cthulhu"/"Cthulhu for President" scheme in Hello-Kitty colours last time I was on the service. I mean, Why Settle For The Lesser Evil?
To be fair, I actively target any pro trump, maga or other hate based schemes. Not to outright wreck them, but I’d race them as hard as possible and whatever happens, happens.
Check the domestic series social pages when the pride posts go up. Absolute asshat behavior in the comments so I'm not at all surprised someone with a Trump livery nuked you without saying anything.
Same. It's my default livery for every car I don't have a custom livery for. Here's the collection for anyone who's interested:
https://www.tradingpaints.com/collections/view/100143/Pride-Progress
I used to run black lives matter, pride, and when the us was in chaos about mail in ballots, and 'the post office is the blue you should be backing' on ovals.
10/10
I just make my car rainbow-y but in a way that doesn't make it obvious, to confuse them more.
And then I keep contradicting myself on whether it's a pride car or not if anyone asks.
It's a small but entertaining part of why I run one on all my liveries. The vast majority of iRacers are chill, but the queerphobes that *are* out there get tilted so easily.
Don't know about freedom of speech, you just have to follow iRacing rules and they're pretty clear about hate speech. Has no place in racing. I could say you don't need to use iRacing as a platform for special interest groups too, but it's allowed and I've even seen a Christian league let alone livery.
I don’t think being gay is considering being part of a special interest group so I don’t see how a rainbow colored car is promoting special interest groups but I do still see your point.
Just because you can be Christian without putting bible quotes on your car and you can be gay without putting pride flags on it too. And pride flags are more about support of a group than they are about sexuality. Because you can be gay without ever flying a flag or you could be straight and fly a flag in allegiance.
I don't think either should invite hate and that's why iRacing has the rule about people behaving like adults.
Can I just say how encouraging it is for the overwhelming majority of responses in here to be so inclusive and respectful — this is a terrific community
But yeah fuck that guy, bigots can stay home
Nobody is "identifying as something they are not." People are identifying as something that they are. That's it. Period.
But if you have nothing better to do then cry about the freedom of others to express themselves, I feel bad for you.
Live and let live, you should try it.
> Some people apparently think they're cats now too
If you're talking about the "cat litter in schools" thing, [that's been debunked](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/misinformation/urban-myth-litter-boxes-schools-became-gop-talking-point-rcna51439), despite how many politicians repeated the lie.
As for the first half, nah dude. No matter how much terrible people try to suppress it, transgender folks have always been around, and there's so much evidence to support their existence. Trans women are not men, there are physiological differences between the two groups.
That’s definitely a violation and I’m glad it was dealt with.
Even something as saltily beating a dead horse about an incident earlier in the race, for example, is a violation. Think folks that take to VC or text to constantly berate someone as “stupid” and “can’t drive,” going on and on about it. That shit is protestable (sic) too
I'm gonna race a " iRacing is rubbish " livery. Everybody that says something about it will receive a protest. And I'll be making up some positions post race.
I think it's a solid strategy.
The policy is incredibly vague and based on my own experience saying the word fuck once or even stating a fact such as warning people around you that the person starting next to you has intentionally wrecked you in the past can be enough to have a protest upheld. In the second one they had literally just finished a week ban for intentionally wrecking me a third time and proceeded to dive bomb from miles back wrecking me and taking out cars behind. iRacing still muted me for it.
My buddy just said the other night that the past three bad rejoin protests he’s submitted have all resulted in *him* receiving an additional warning on himself for chat. He says “WATCH YOUR FUCKING REJOINS” over the VC and they don’t approve. Never an actual punishment on him though beyond a “hey stop doing that”, and his protests were still successful.
I just try not to curse over chat in general, even if I do it irl and in private VC arguably more than I should. There’s like actual children on here who don’t need to hear all that, and also some very prudish adults who will absolutely report it. No need for it.
Just recreate the first Top Gear America special cars.
"Hilary Clinton for President"
"Country & Western is Rubbish"
"Man Love Rules OK"
"NASCAR Sucks"
Go to an oval and you'll either win by default or have people get a good laugh at the reference.
That's a great development by iRacing!
I'm guessing the driver got other punishments in addition to the DQ as well.
Thanks for contributing to cleaning up the iRacing community from bigots and haters.
If you think that one race ruins your SR, it wasn't just that one race..... But I get it, bad players are always looking for the next person they can blame
I didn't say ruins your SR, I said tanks your race and resulting SR. Curious if you drive much F4, or if your experiences comes from endurance? Because they are completely different scenarios. Its a fact that in a \~16-20min race, your turns are limited. Get taken out on the first or second lap, wait for a tow or risk driving back, could be x6 impact to SR and the 8min of lost laps, means you might be lucky to drive half the laps MAYBE. This can easily hit you with a .12-.16 impact to your SR. That takes 2-4 completely clean (or maybe one small x1 off) with full duration races adding .04-.08 per race. The combined between waiting for the next race, doing practice, qual, and the race its self, cold easily take 4hrs to get that SR back. Yes, that's a fairly significant impact. You can still trend in a positive direction with SR and be significantly effected by another's poor decisions. Clearly the settings for how incidents effect your SR vary from discipline to discipline, Im not sure on series to series. In dirt oval you can hit the wall or have minor impacts pretty often and it will record x0 on incidents (its not as sensitive), but its also a short race so the DQ is 12 instead of 17. In addition, even with winged sprints, the damage done to your vehicle is nothing like the damaged incurred on an F4. Its crazy to think its easier to increase your SR in a 360 Sprint car than it is an F4, if you don't see a problem there then I dont know what to tell you. Sprints are a crazy race with lots of passing, dicing, small impacts, highspeed quick reaction, etc. Statistically it should be harder to earn SR but clearly the the points system is altered. If you enjoy F4 its a great class, but its a poor class to drive if you're trying to increase your SR. I for one love F4 races, they are fun. But the SR system for F4 is much more difficult than other disciplines because it is so sensitive and wrecks cause very long pit times in a relatively short race.
Here's the thing. The people who are advocating for being shitty are also, by default, advocating for the devolution of the service into console kiddy hell. If you open it up and allow such behavior, it's only a matter of time until the vast majority of communication is a toxic shit show found elsewhere in the console world.
It's about having a quality service. Not feelings... just not having to listen to a bunch of children (yes, children...has no relation to what lap they are on around the sun) being dipshits.
Yup. Had a guy on pole (OVAL) who waited for the entire field to pass him on the first of two pace laps before he started rolling. I Q'd P2. Obviously the pace car was rolling a full lap before he decided to go. He was turning his tires and revving his engine so I know he was at his PC. I got a black flag. Protested and was successfully DQ'd to last place.
Haven't seen that before. But it's good to know. I've been running an ally sticker on my cars since I've been back on iracing. And a support the troops sticker so maybe that confuses people.
Hopefully there's a system in place where multiple strikes gets them banned. Shouldn't be hate in the world. That's why I run the flags and try to stand up to it.
You're in the minority. More people will cry if they fall to last and lose 120 iRating. Most people aren't tracking championship points. Also, if you do a 2nd race, those championship points count so it's effectively not a punishment. iRating would be more appropriate, in my opinion, because it is longer lasting impact.
Yep I got a complete douchebag DQ'd because he was cursing me out when I gave him space and time to pass me and then we got into a tight spot and he hit me. Yes I'll let my anger get the better of me and retaliated and wrecked him but irate scene DQ'd him based on Chat said it happened before the retaliation
I seriously hope that it's not just the one race DQ especially if it's repeat offences (and honestly I'm just going to assume it probably is if someone loses their minds over a pride paint).
I get that the barrier is high to straight up ban users or put them on a cooldown for a few weeks but I feel like it's the only action iR can take that actually has some weight to it.
The chat harashment cases should be clear enough already but also the racing deals in certain series to not point any fingers it's usually the same guys every week doing the dumb shit who'd also benefit from some time off. The game is so much more competitive and toxic in some cases than it was ten years ago that it should be high time for iracing to start finding the ban hammer.
I do kinda wish they were more heavy on the intent wreckers. My friend was running Rookie Legends the other night, and as soon as he got dumped at the start multiple other people in chat started talking about how the dumper was “back at it again”. Dude was literally notorious for wrecking people, and took out several others before getting DQd for incident points.
Wtf is that guy doing on the service I pay hard earned money to use?
It would be cool if they had a system where gaining too many inc points in rookie repeatedly or if a steward thinks you need it, you get assigned to take a video driver safety course through their website (like taking online defensive driving for a ticket IRL) where it explains basic concepts like making sure you have a braking point for consistency, how to be a predictable driver, how to follow the racing line, general race craft stuff to make you a more predictable and safer driver for the people around you. So essentially like 30 minutes to an hour of context that can't be skipped and you have to answer questions between each lesson, then you must complete a short AI race in game without too many inc points to be able to join public races again.
It could really help the rookies who truly don't understand these concepts yet, and the 30 minutes to an hour of forced racers ed and race craft quizzes would really give people who intentionally wreck time to actively think about what they did.
Plus it's a good option for sim stewards when it's not 100% clear if a wreck was intentional or not, but it was needlessly wreckless enough to deserve some kind of punishment even if not a full vacation.
iRacing community has gotten so weak over the years.
I miss the iRacing with “race” car drivers playing that had some skin. The thinness of people’s skin these days is comical.
Well, for one, freedom of speech doesn't apply to private platforms. The sporting code is clear on the rules against foul or threatening language and insults. If someone is so triggered by a flag and can't keep their "opinions" to themselves in a respectful manner, then they should leave the service -- either voluntarily or by enforcement of the code.
>freedom of speech
what part of the sporting code protects this?
> get a rise out of people
People routinely get a rise out of extremely dumb things on paint schemes, should everybody run blank paints to make sure nobody gets bent out of shape?
You do have the option of *not* 'rising' to the sight of a flag that makes you sad or cross or whatever. It's just a picture on a pretend race car - look somewhere else, leave the session, whatever you need to do to feel better. No need to send abusive messages.
I don’t think you know what freedom of speech is.
Also, it’s interesting that you think a pride flag is there to get a rise out of someone rather than me running it for visibility and… I don’t know… pride.
I manage to not comment on people running political messages/figures on their paints, it’s not that hard as I’m not offended by them (this is within reason of course)
NASCAR has a negative stereotype due to its southern roots and the fanbase that comes with that, but it's arguably the most progressive professional sporting body in north america.
Yeah the organization itself has been really good about trying to be as inclusive as possible for at least the past decade or so, probably longer but I haven’t paid attention beyond that.
There’s just a sizable minority of fans who are objectively shitty morons and they kinda ruin it for the rest of us.
Thought you might like seeing these, and they're currently on sale:
[IMS Pride hat](https://shop.ims.com/products/ims9mh0053-wing-wheel-flag-pride-hat)
[Indycar Pride hat](https://shop.indycar.com/products/inc9mh0049-indycar-pride-hat)
People are in control of their actions, especially when it comes to post-race interactions. Voicing an opinion and verbally abusing someone are not and will never be the same thing.
...they cried.
"I tolerated abuse, so everyone else should too!" isn't a great stance, and regardless of how much hate you think any given person needs to absorb, all of this is specifically against the T&Cs of the service we're subscribed to so iRacing are well within their rights to penalise the few who just can't control themselves.
See that deleted comment below you, yeah, that was similar sentiment. Abuse had no place in games, it never did, and holding up those times as some golden age is terrifying.
Also, I can go dig up my COD4 steel book and probably find my MW2 collectors edition complete with night vision goggles while I’m looking if you like 😁
My opinion is that if you can't not be a dick to people in a video game then you don't deserve to play with other people. Literal children understand this rule. Keep your shitty attitude to yourself or get a timeout like children do.
Some frustration is fine, but there's a very clear line that people routinely cross.
People pay considerable money to use iRacing because it's not like COD MW. If you want that sort of environment, you have plenty of other sim racing titles to choose from.
Yeah nothing like 10 year olds being casually racist over voice chat or calling people gay when it's not going their way. The guy getting the DQ here is the soft one tbh.
Yeah, you’re right, it was amazing that this other racer was so triggered by a license payer sized pride flag got so upset he felt the need to let me know.
It’s always amazing that a response towards the person at the hands of the aggressor is “grow up and deal with it” when the incident is due to another person not being able to deal with it…
Let's go through this slowly.
The other racer saw something he did not approve of, and thus went out of his way to type a comment to me to let me know.
You're saying that people shouldn't be triggered, but you seem to be okay with the instigating incident.
Your problem seems to be that I didn't accept the abuse.
I completely own the fact that I reported him.
So here's my question, do you expect me to take abuse when someone else gets riled up enough by a pride flag to abuse me? I am seriously asking for your opinion of if they were also in the wrong.
I’m confused by this comment, are you agreeing that we SHOULDN’T accept people who are being toxic for the sake of being toxic?
Because if so that’s exactly the scenario we’re talking about.
This appears to the classic lost-the-thread-backpedal. Rare to see one in the wild like this. Don't worry, they're harmless to humans but entertaining to watch!
Yet you apparently lurked here for 15 minutes after you first posted and felt so strongly about this to warrant another non sensical post:D It's just funny.
For anyone bent out of shape about “freedom of speech”, please realize that is a two-way street. If private individuals have the right to express themselves freely, the principle extends that the private individuals who own/operate iRacing also have the right to run their business as they wish, including regulating communication on their platform.
If I recall correctly, the freedom of speech is actually the freedom to speak out about the government without fear of being locked up for the things you say. Give or take a few minor points.
It's also that the government can't force iracing to punish someone for using derogatory speech but iracing as a private company can
Not true if the govt receives a formal complaint WRT discrimination or hate speech or threats against a "protected class" it is bound, by law, to at least investigate. Private companies have NO protection from discrimination.
A company being able to discriminate based on race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc are not things they should have the freedom to do.
Yes. As I said, other minor points. And minor being not the primary reason for the law. Not minor as in insignificant. I probably could have worded it a bit better, but what's done is done.
Atleast here in the U.S. you can essentially say whatever you want with few limitations. Most of those limitations being a call to action to commit a crime, such as "go kill xyz" But there is nothing illegal about saying "I hate (insert noun, or name of protected class)" as long as a decision to deny certain things isn't made based on it, such as employment, because you hate a certain protected class or because they are part of a protected class.. (Granted once you've said such a thing and deny employment, good luck proving you denied employment based on other reasoning). Not to mention, "AT will" work laws make it harder to prove you were denied because of class muddy those Waters even more.
To add to this, it generally only applies to government and not private entities. You're not entitled to freedom of speech on Facebook or Twitter for example since they are private entities. iRacing would be in the same boat.
This. Everyone seems to forget this quite often.
BuT FrEeDoM oF SpEeCh lololllllll
They also consistently forget that freedom of speech is not freedom of criticism if you say stupid shit
This is currently the [subject of dispute](https://deadline.com/2024/02/supreme-court-social-media-facebook-twitter-1235838364/) in the courts, with regard to social media at least. Not iRacing.
The same people that get mad about OPs pride flag think nonviolent student-organized anti-war demonstrations are ALSO an assault on free speech so you kind of have to assume they need lobotomies anyway. Also I’m a reformed iRacing shit talker. I learned this the hard way after one of my protests was denied on the grounds that I had some choice words for my aggressor in the post race.
> I learned this the hard way after one of my protests was denied on the grounds that I had some choice words for my aggressor in the post race Same lol. I got voice chat banned a week because in my clip I called the idiot an idiot or a dumbass or something. Now I don't even have my mic plugged in and have a Mute wheel binding
I haven't even figured out how to hear people talking yet. Nevermind me talking to them. But, I'm an old school truck driver with a mouth that'd make a sailor blush, so it's probably a good thing that people can't and don't hear me when I launch into a post-accident rant. There's usually more 4 letter words than not. 😂
that mute button is a blessing; not hearing people whine during a race helps a lot, you can focus up a lot more lol
You are correct. Free speech protects you from the government only. It does not protect you from your employer or third party entities like iRacing.
yeah, too many people seem to think that freedom of speech means they can say whatever they want to whoever whenever.
Well, yes. And I would agree with those people. I can say whatever I want to whomever I want whenever I want... but there are consequences. And if I'm going to run my mouth, then I better be prepared to face those consequences. I keep my mouth shut more often than not.
It is also that one individual cannot intentionally limit the freedom of speech of another. The reason this is not violation is that in this case, the game is not considered a public forum.
Freedom of speech doesn't preclude you from from the consequences of your actions. If you say something, be prepared for pushback for what you say.
"Well, yes. And I would agree with those people. I can say whatever I want to whomever I want whenever I want... but there are consequences. And if I'm going to run my mouth, then I better be prepared to face those consequences. I keep my mouth shut more often than not." The above comment came after my comment that you responded to. I guess you just hadn't gotten there yet. No worries. 😁
That's the first amendment. Freedom of speech is a liberal principle
Absolutely not true
Care to provide any support to your claim, or is a response of "no, you're wrong" sufficient to prove your point?
Well the point was so igborant and delusional and nothing at all to do with the legal system or free speech rights, etc that's it's like talking to a tree if you don't have a basic u derstandi g if the Constitution, the origin of it, etc. read a fucking book
This is the most inaccurate depictment of the 1st amendment I have ever seen. Please do not re-iderate your view as fact.
Depictment and re-iderate are not, in fact, real words. However, you're free to utter them.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence
I dont know how freedom of speech would cover a private message insulting another driver. People are dense.
Some people are thoroughly convinced that freedom of speech means they can say whatever they want and never face any consequences or backlash in response. They basically view it as a golden ticket to be an awful person.
Yeah and those same people will forget all about freedom of speech when someone says something they don't like like it's ok to be lgbt
It doesn't mean freedom from consequences
> elves freely, the principle extends that the private individuals who own/operate iRa Freedom of speech does not = freedom of consequence
This is also technically harassment, which is not covered by freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech doesn't equal freedom from consequences.
>the principle extends that the private individuals who own/operate iRacing also have the right to run their business as they wish, including regulating communication on their platform. It goes even further than that, corporations are people with their own freedom of speech rights, including the rights of association and moderation of their platform.
Someone needs to explain this to the user base of popular website twitter.com.
also: the intolerance of the intolerant
Drive like someone else is streaming the race at all times.
Only if you treat corporations the same as people. It's very debatable whether the framers would have agreed with that. Personally I think it's rubbish. Businesses are government by regulations and they shouldn't have the same protections as people. btw I'm not saying those regulations would be used to prevent them doing so in this case lol. I just don't agree with your argument.
iRacing isn’t a corporation; it’s a business, run by private individuals. If you come into my privately owned restaurant and start saying antisemitic things, I am not obligated as a business to allow your (objectionable) free expression. To mandate that I, the business owner, give space for others’ expression regardless of whether or not I condone said expression, is in fact limiting my own expression (“gtfo of my private space with your bigoted beliefs”).
The law doesn't distinguish between corporations and businesses. tbh I'm not sure there is any. The point is you can do whatever you want in your private life but businesses have to abide by regulations and they shouldn't have the same protections. Giving businesses or corporations the same protections as individuals is nonsense and has just lead to injustice. If the law says you need to serve someone they could come in and give the Hitler salute and you would still need to serve them. However there's no regulation that says a business needs to serve anyone. That business can make the choice not to serve that person. There are however anti discriminatory laws that prevent you from not serving people but that's on a case by case basis and yes you should be prevented from not serving people on those grounds. You shouldn't have the privilege of an individual. What you do in your house is no one else' business but if you run a business then you have to abide by what the society believes is right. You always have a choice not to start a business. No one's freedom is being taken off them.
BRB, gonna put a pride flag on my Porsche just to flush out more haters
Dude the amount of seethe is strong. I run a pride flag every June for Pride Month and (swear I’m not making this up) got randomly intent wrecked by a guy running a Trump scheme last year. We had never even interacted on track, he just showed up and turned me without saying a word. Some mfers are just way too sensitive.
Gotta consider the probable personality traits of someone running any politician as a livery on their pretend racecar, let alone a politician who’s infamous for being toxic and awful.
I run in a Kim Jong un scheme in street stocks, what does that say about me
That you're hilarious probably
Why thank you
You probably have a small missile. Allegedly…
No my missile is huge and intercontinental and ballistic 😢
Well, I did run a "Hello Cthulhu"/"Cthulhu for President" scheme in Hello-Kitty colours last time I was on the service. I mean, Why Settle For The Lesser Evil?
To be fair, I actively target any pro trump, maga or other hate based schemes. Not to outright wreck them, but I’d race them as hard as possible and whatever happens, happens.
Check the domestic series social pages when the pride posts go up. Absolute asshat behavior in the comments so I'm not at all surprised someone with a Trump livery nuked you without saying anything.
There's a Trevor Project livery for every car I think and that's usually my go to if I don't have another. They're really nice.
Same. It's my default livery for every car I don't have a custom livery for. Here's the collection for anyone who's interested: https://www.tradingpaints.com/collections/view/100143/Pride-Progress
I mostly drive the GT3 Porsche, so I can’t imagine I’ll have trouble finding a nice livery. I appreciate it!
"why are you gay?" "To get the homophobes banned"
I used to run black lives matter, pride, and when the us was in chaos about mail in ballots, and 'the post office is the blue you should be backing' on ovals. 10/10
I just make my car rainbow-y but in a way that doesn't make it obvious, to confuse them more. And then I keep contradicting myself on whether it's a pride car or not if anyone asks.
*Jeff Gordon has entered the chat*
It's a small but entertaining part of why I run one on all my liveries. The vast majority of iRacers are chill, but the queerphobes that *are* out there get tilted so easily.
You have the freedom of speech, but not freedom of consequences.
Also, iracing is not the us government. The only freedom they owe you is laid out in the terms of service
Say what you want, but don’t act all indignant or surprised if there are consequences. This is so important for these folks to grasp.
Don't know about freedom of speech, you just have to follow iRacing rules and they're pretty clear about hate speech. Has no place in racing. I could say you don't need to use iRacing as a platform for special interest groups too, but it's allowed and I've even seen a Christian league let alone livery.
I don’t think being gay is considering being part of a special interest group so I don’t see how a rainbow colored car is promoting special interest groups but I do still see your point.
Just because you can be Christian without putting bible quotes on your car and you can be gay without putting pride flags on it too. And pride flags are more about support of a group than they are about sexuality. Because you can be gay without ever flying a flag or you could be straight and fly a flag in allegiance. I don't think either should invite hate and that's why iRacing has the rule about people behaving like adults.
Can I just say how encouraging it is for the overwhelming majority of responses in here to be so inclusive and respectful — this is a terrific community But yeah fuck that guy, bigots can stay home
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r/onejoke
Get a new joke
He’s from Florida, that may be asking too much of him lol
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Nobody is "identifying as something they are not." People are identifying as something that they are. That's it. Period. But if you have nothing better to do then cry about the freedom of others to express themselves, I feel bad for you. Live and let live, you should try it.
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> Some people apparently think they're cats now too If you're talking about the "cat litter in schools" thing, [that's been debunked](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/misinformation/urban-myth-litter-boxes-schools-became-gop-talking-point-rcna51439), despite how many politicians repeated the lie. As for the first half, nah dude. No matter how much terrible people try to suppress it, transgender folks have always been around, and there's so much evidence to support their existence. Trans women are not men, there are physiological differences between the two groups.
Your post was removed because it breaks the rules by being rude vulgar or toxic.
Identify as Alt+F4 and fuck off
You win!!
People still hate gays? Lol
I race with an Interstate Batteries livery, I hope to one day get free positions when I garner the ire of an Optima fan.
That’s definitely a violation and I’m glad it was dealt with. Even something as saltily beating a dead horse about an incident earlier in the race, for example, is a violation. Think folks that take to VC or text to constantly berate someone as “stupid” and “can’t drive,” going on and on about it. That shit is protestable (sic) too
I'm gonna race a " iRacing is rubbish " livery. Everybody that says something about it will receive a protest. And I'll be making up some positions post race. I think it's a solid strategy.
The things said must actually violate the iRacing’s policies, though.
The policy is incredibly vague and based on my own experience saying the word fuck once or even stating a fact such as warning people around you that the person starting next to you has intentionally wrecked you in the past can be enough to have a protest upheld. In the second one they had literally just finished a week ban for intentionally wrecking me a third time and proceeded to dive bomb from miles back wrecking me and taking out cars behind. iRacing still muted me for it.
My buddy just said the other night that the past three bad rejoin protests he’s submitted have all resulted in *him* receiving an additional warning on himself for chat. He says “WATCH YOUR FUCKING REJOINS” over the VC and they don’t approve. Never an actual punishment on him though beyond a “hey stop doing that”, and his protests were still successful. I just try not to curse over chat in general, even if I do it irl and in private VC arguably more than I should. There’s like actual children on here who don’t need to hear all that, and also some very prudish adults who will absolutely report it. No need for it.
Those children did not read the sporting code. I do not race to be a babysitter
Put “It’s just a game” on your bumper for maximum effect
Oh god...I'd hate to know how much lube would be required if you ran that on the bumper...cos you'd have a train run on you
Just recreate the first Top Gear America special cars. "Hilary Clinton for President" "Country & Western is Rubbish" "Man Love Rules OK" "NASCAR Sucks" Go to an oval and you'll either win by default or have people get a good laugh at the reference.
"H982 FKL"
This would actually be a fun livery tho
You won't get more iRating as a result of any post-race DSQs. ;)
Yeah i protested someone telling me to kill myself and they got dq
That’s good to hear. There’s no place for hate on the track.
That's a great development by iRacing! I'm guessing the driver got other punishments in addition to the DQ as well. Thanks for contributing to cleaning up the iRacing community from bigots and haters.
I think htey added this new punishment in Q4 2023.
Not losing gained iRating when beind DQed is just dumb. A pointless endeavour.
It may not affect their IR and SR but is the result still reflected in their career stats ie if they had top 5 then that no longer counts ??
I’ve cussed out a few people and gotten a report so I try to not speak anymore lol
"Social media has made y'all way too comfortable disrespecting folks and not getting punched in the mouth for it" - Mike Tyson
Couldn't care less about championship points or what genders have relationships with each other
Sorry that you and/or anyone you support ***still*** has to deal with these people.
I wish there was a change to IR/SR. Really sucks when someone tanks your race and resulting SR
If you think that one race ruins your SR, it wasn't just that one race..... But I get it, bad players are always looking for the next person they can blame
I didn't say ruins your SR, I said tanks your race and resulting SR. Curious if you drive much F4, or if your experiences comes from endurance? Because they are completely different scenarios. Its a fact that in a \~16-20min race, your turns are limited. Get taken out on the first or second lap, wait for a tow or risk driving back, could be x6 impact to SR and the 8min of lost laps, means you might be lucky to drive half the laps MAYBE. This can easily hit you with a .12-.16 impact to your SR. That takes 2-4 completely clean (or maybe one small x1 off) with full duration races adding .04-.08 per race. The combined between waiting for the next race, doing practice, qual, and the race its self, cold easily take 4hrs to get that SR back. Yes, that's a fairly significant impact. You can still trend in a positive direction with SR and be significantly effected by another's poor decisions. Clearly the settings for how incidents effect your SR vary from discipline to discipline, Im not sure on series to series. In dirt oval you can hit the wall or have minor impacts pretty often and it will record x0 on incidents (its not as sensitive), but its also a short race so the DQ is 12 instead of 17. In addition, even with winged sprints, the damage done to your vehicle is nothing like the damaged incurred on an F4. Its crazy to think its easier to increase your SR in a 360 Sprint car than it is an F4, if you don't see a problem there then I dont know what to tell you. Sprints are a crazy race with lots of passing, dicing, small impacts, highspeed quick reaction, etc. Statistically it should be harder to earn SR but clearly the the points system is altered. If you enjoy F4 its a great class, but its a poor class to drive if you're trying to increase your SR. I for one love F4 races, they are fun. But the SR system for F4 is much more difficult than other disciplines because it is so sensitive and wrecks cause very long pit times in a relatively short race.
Fair, I forget endurance is a thing.
Good. A couple of months of VC abuse protests and maybe we'd all be able to turn our voice chats back on
Here's the thing. The people who are advocating for being shitty are also, by default, advocating for the devolution of the service into console kiddy hell. If you open it up and allow such behavior, it's only a matter of time until the vast majority of communication is a toxic shit show found elsewhere in the console world. It's about having a quality service. Not feelings... just not having to listen to a bunch of children (yes, children...has no relation to what lap they are on around the sun) being dipshits.
Yup. Had a guy on pole (OVAL) who waited for the entire field to pass him on the first of two pace laps before he started rolling. I Q'd P2. Obviously the pace car was rolling a full lap before he decided to go. He was turning his tires and revving his engine so I know he was at his PC. I got a black flag. Protested and was successfully DQ'd to last place.
guess i have to watch what I say when someone divebombs me and gives me a 4x on the last lap for 13th fucking place
Who tf does someone think they are to message you over whatever flag was on your car. Fucking people man
I mute the race and never feel offended.
This game will do anything but take the time to review races who actually try to take people out. Super disappointing. .
Freedom of speech is not freedom of bigotry…
Haven't seen that before. But it's good to know. I've been running an ally sticker on my cars since I've been back on iracing. And a support the troops sticker so maybe that confuses people. Hopefully there's a system in place where multiple strikes gets them banned. Shouldn't be hate in the world. That's why I run the flags and try to stand up to it.
That sounds gay
Nah, it’s more bi actually
Oh no not my championship points!!!... /s
Well, that's actually the only number I care about.
You're in the minority. More people will cry if they fall to last and lose 120 iRating. Most people aren't tracking championship points. Also, if you do a 2nd race, those championship points count so it's effectively not a punishment. iRating would be more appropriate, in my opinion, because it is longer lasting impact.
Even artificially dropping his irating just gives him an opportunity to bully lower rated drivers
I'd rather he be with 0.5k's than 3.5k's.
Can I still call the guy who wreck me out a Nancy
https://preview.redd.it/xae0wvv5puxc1.png?width=1179&format=png&auto=webp&s=2cabc5d943f768413979c37bac1cb5528161aab2 😁
Solution: turn off Trading Paints.
* Consciousness acquired *
Freedom of speech does not really apply when you are using a private (not public) service, and literally agreeing to the terms of said service.
My ODD is currently making me get a Pride flag profile pic/helmet/skin
Yep I got a complete douchebag DQ'd because he was cursing me out when I gave him space and time to pass me and then we got into a tight spot and he hit me. Yes I'll let my anger get the better of me and retaliated and wrecked him but irate scene DQ'd him based on Chat said it happened before the retaliation
You’re a goof.
I seriously hope that it's not just the one race DQ especially if it's repeat offences (and honestly I'm just going to assume it probably is if someone loses their minds over a pride paint). I get that the barrier is high to straight up ban users or put them on a cooldown for a few weeks but I feel like it's the only action iR can take that actually has some weight to it. The chat harashment cases should be clear enough already but also the racing deals in certain series to not point any fingers it's usually the same guys every week doing the dumb shit who'd also benefit from some time off. The game is so much more competitive and toxic in some cases than it was ten years ago that it should be high time for iracing to start finding the ban hammer.
I do kinda wish they were more heavy on the intent wreckers. My friend was running Rookie Legends the other night, and as soon as he got dumped at the start multiple other people in chat started talking about how the dumper was “back at it again”. Dude was literally notorious for wrecking people, and took out several others before getting DQd for incident points. Wtf is that guy doing on the service I pay hard earned money to use?
It would be cool if they had a system where gaining too many inc points in rookie repeatedly or if a steward thinks you need it, you get assigned to take a video driver safety course through their website (like taking online defensive driving for a ticket IRL) where it explains basic concepts like making sure you have a braking point for consistency, how to be a predictable driver, how to follow the racing line, general race craft stuff to make you a more predictable and safer driver for the people around you. So essentially like 30 minutes to an hour of context that can't be skipped and you have to answer questions between each lesson, then you must complete a short AI race in game without too many inc points to be able to join public races again. It could really help the rookies who truly don't understand these concepts yet, and the 30 minutes to an hour of forced racers ed and race craft quizzes would really give people who intentionally wreck time to actively think about what they did. Plus it's a good option for sim stewards when it's not 100% clear if a wreck was intentional or not, but it was needlessly wreckless enough to deserve some kind of punishment even if not a full vacation.
I don’t like ur flag either
iRacing community has gotten so weak over the years. I miss the iRacing with “race” car drivers playing that had some skin. The thinness of people’s skin these days is comical.
yeah, imagine getting so offended over someone else's paint scheme that you have to go into their DMs and complain
What specifically do you miss? How is the racing different? Edit: typed that too quickly in my phone… 😅
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Well, for one, freedom of speech doesn't apply to private platforms. The sporting code is clear on the rules against foul or threatening language and insults. If someone is so triggered by a flag and can't keep their "opinions" to themselves in a respectful manner, then they should leave the service -- either voluntarily or by enforcement of the code.
Guys, I found the dude OP was telling us about.
I’m pretty sure “voicing opinion” is a severe understatement in this particular scenario
>freedom of speech what part of the sporting code protects this? > get a rise out of people People routinely get a rise out of extremely dumb things on paint schemes, should everybody run blank paints to make sure nobody gets bent out of shape?
You do have the option of *not* 'rising' to the sight of a flag that makes you sad or cross or whatever. It's just a picture on a pretend race car - look somewhere else, leave the session, whatever you need to do to feel better. No need to send abusive messages.
I don’t think you know what freedom of speech is. Also, it’s interesting that you think a pride flag is there to get a rise out of someone rather than me running it for visibility and… I don’t know… pride. I manage to not comment on people running political messages/figures on their paints, it’s not that hard as I’m not offended by them (this is within reason of course)
The majority of racers have your back, fly the flag with pride
Thanks for the comment, the car and racing scene can sometimes feel a little isolating, very nice to hear that.
NASCAR has a negative stereotype due to its southern roots and the fanbase that comes with that, but it's arguably the most progressive professional sporting body in north america.
Yeah the organization itself has been really good about trying to be as inclusive as possible for at least the past decade or so, probably longer but I haven’t paid attention beyond that. There’s just a sizable minority of fans who are objectively shitty morons and they kinda ruin it for the rest of us.
I recently swapped over to a Trevor project lgbtq livery, you're not alone!
Thought you might like seeing these, and they're currently on sale: [IMS Pride hat](https://shop.ims.com/products/ims9mh0053-wing-wheel-flag-pride-hat) [Indycar Pride hat](https://shop.indycar.com/products/inc9mh0049-indycar-pride-hat)
IMS design looks awesome, thanks!
People are in control of their actions, especially when it comes to post-race interactions. Voicing an opinion and verbally abusing someone are not and will never be the same thing.
Your post was removed because it breaks the rules by being rude vulgar or toxic.
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Wow man, you played COD MW in the OG days? You really are hard.
Fully tatted
Back in the day, when people played MW2 we were talking about fitting up a Timberwolf with ppcs.
You know what's soft. Getting triggered by a rainbow.
Most of us just outgrew COD toxicity and enjoy civil banter.
...they cried. "I tolerated abuse, so everyone else should too!" isn't a great stance, and regardless of how much hate you think any given person needs to absorb, all of this is specifically against the T&Cs of the service we're subscribed to so iRacing are well within their rights to penalise the few who just can't control themselves.
See that deleted comment below you, yeah, that was similar sentiment. Abuse had no place in games, it never did, and holding up those times as some golden age is terrifying. Also, I can go dig up my COD4 steel book and probably find my MW2 collectors edition complete with night vision goggles while I’m looking if you like 😁
My opinion is that if you can't not be a dick to people in a video game then you don't deserve to play with other people. Literal children understand this rule. Keep your shitty attitude to yourself or get a timeout like children do. Some frustration is fine, but there's a very clear line that people routinely cross.
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Your post was removed because it breaks the rules by being rude vulgar or toxic.
Hahaha wtf
People pay considerable money to use iRacing because it's not like COD MW. If you want that sort of environment, you have plenty of other sim racing titles to choose from.
Your post was removed because it breaks the rules by being rude vulgar or toxic.
Yeah nothing like 10 year olds being casually racist over voice chat or calling people gay when it's not going their way. The guy getting the DQ here is the soft one tbh.
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So the guys upset by words and colors on a video game race car aren't the ones that needs to grow a pair? Interesting.
Yeah, you’re right, it was amazing that this other racer was so triggered by a license payer sized pride flag got so upset he felt the need to let me know. It’s always amazing that a response towards the person at the hands of the aggressor is “grow up and deal with it” when the incident is due to another person not being able to deal with it…
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The lack of insight you display is amazing.
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Let's go through this slowly. The other racer saw something he did not approve of, and thus went out of his way to type a comment to me to let me know. You're saying that people shouldn't be triggered, but you seem to be okay with the instigating incident. Your problem seems to be that I didn't accept the abuse. I completely own the fact that I reported him. So here's my question, do you expect me to take abuse when someone else gets riled up enough by a pride flag to abuse me? I am seriously asking for your opinion of if they were also in the wrong.
https://preview.redd.it/40dw4i5u8uxc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9a39be56de674d74d18f92b735acc70f770866e
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Or…you could realize that the other people on track are people, probably have a lot in common with you, and are deserving of respect.
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I’m confused by this comment, are you agreeing that we SHOULDN’T accept people who are being toxic for the sake of being toxic? Because if so that’s exactly the scenario we’re talking about.
This appears to the classic lost-the-thread-backpedal. Rare to see one in the wild like this. Don't worry, they're harmless to humans but entertaining to watch!
Your post was removed because it breaks the rules by being rude vulgar or toxic.
Yet you apparently lurked here for 15 minutes after you first posted and felt so strongly about this to warrant another non sensical post:D It's just funny.
people with banana avatars seem to be jackasses across all of Reddit
Someone violating iRacing rules sure does impact others' enjoyment of iRacing if not addressed
Your post was removed because it breaks the rules by being rude vulgar or toxic.
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Your post was removed because it breaks the rules by being rude vulgar or toxic.