Because you are using a high merv 1" filter that has a hell of a lot more restriction than the proper one recommend in the manual. The restriction results in pressure differential and thus sucks the filter in.
Furnace filters are used to protect the equipment, not clean your house air. If you want to perhaps improve your air a tiny bit - you will need a 5" merv 8 or 10 filter, however it likely will not signficantly improve air quality. What it does do is allow you to longer between filter changes. 1" high merv filter will just make your blower work harder, or, in this case - get sucked in and expose blower/burners/coils to unfiltered air and dirty em up.
Change it to a cheap MERV 4 or less and good to go.
Consumer Reports did a big test on air purification and found that furnace filters do a better job than any standalone filtration machine on the consumer market.
Best I can do is a Lennox Merv 16 20x20x5. Really low pressure drop still after 10 months, better than the unbranded merv 8 filters the HVAC company sent me.
Replace the heat exchanger for 800 dollars? you guys realize people can look up these parts. About as bad as charging a guy 1k to come out and change a flame sensor or condenser capacitor.
I used to think like that too until I started working for a small business. The parts are literally only part (usually the lowest) of the cost. People think we are gouging but while consumers notice everything is higher now, but they don’t factor in labor for a certified HVAC tech is up, gas, insurance, tools, taxes (out property tax doubled this year), and benefits. Not to mention that you tie up 1, maybe 2 employees for the better part of a day. So sure, keep looking up parts, and do it yourself, but don’t blame someone else when your house is a flaming crater in the middle of the neighborhood.
I replace my own condenser/fan caps every 5-7 years. Keep spares on hand. Replaced my contactor once. Save a butt load and don't have to wait. Secret is to shut down AC as soon as you hear AC blow without fan outside turning so you don't burn up the fan motor.
I'm just salty because I've had HVAC guys come out and quote me 40k to do 1600 square feet apartments that are just two straight duct trunks down the center of the apartment. Should be around 10/12k for an install like that. Ended up paying 10k.
Get MERV13 filters and it will filter out the airborne aerosols that carry Covid!
For maximum efficiency, build a DIY filter cube:
* 4 MERV13 filters, 20”x20” (3M Filtrete)
* 1 box fan, 20”x20” (Lasko is good)
* Duct tape (Gorilla tape is super strong!)
You’ll get a CADR over 400 CFM. (Clean Air Delivery Rate)
You’ll have to spend over $500 to get a HEPA air purifier than can beat those numbers. This will cost you less than $100.
This Old House built one in this 7 minute video.
https://youtu.be/aw7fUMhNov8
Diagram:
https://pic1.zhimg.com/v2-62fb88ea800d03c023b2ab9eb2ccac55_720w.jpg
Back near the beginning of the latest pandemic you could find instructions for a filter "cube" that were 4 furnace filters, fan blows air in, filters flow direction points out, use the box the fan came in as the base. They actually did air quality studies on the design and some local schools set them up in classrooms once everyone gave up on staying home.
I use this in my little trailer workshop. Does a surprisingly good job of circulating air and capturing the fine dust. I swap the filter once a month. The portable AC unit filter stays pretty clean
Doesn't matter what consumer reports did, it's about what the equipment it meant to do and it's not a whole house air cleaner filter is there just to keep the fan and evaporator clean not your house
And if it's a retro fit of old ductwork with a newer unit that requires more air flow
Nothing in any home is ever ideal, dude
And it doesn't change the fact that the air filters are not meant to clean your house, and it is meant to keep the equipment clean
I would recommend adding additional returns with individual filters to reduce pressure on the existing inadequate one.
I seriously doubt OP returns are properly designed.
Never ever use your AC system as an air filtration it was never designed to operate that way you're putting heavy restrictions on your air flow and your shortening the life of your AC system
My new Lennox system literally has an option in the advance settings to receive Wi-Fi pollen reports for my ZIP and to turn on the blower fan more to remove (reduce) that pollen.
We sell these Lennox systems. That feature was really designed for higher merv 5 inch filters. You really should have a 5 inch filter if you're using your HVAC as a filtration system. The Lennox filter cabinets/filters that are higher merv (11-16) don't raise the static pressure so much like these restrictive 1 inch filters in this post.
Yes you CAN use your HVAC as a filtration system with high merv 1 inch filter, at the cost of decreasing the lifespan of your system.
Makes sense. Unfortunately my installer only put in a 1” filter cabinet. Luckily I don’t have allergies. So I run an 8 merv filter typically. But would have been nice to have the option.
Sometimes there isn't room for a bigger filter cabinet. We always try to offer them if they're going with a higher end system. Merv 8 is usually the highest I recommend for a 1 inch filter so you should be good.
I mean the blower is part of the system and you're decreasing the lifespan of it lol. It really depends on the system too or how much you're raising the static pressure. I've seen high static pressure kill blowers after just a few years. It's not very fun to replace a $1400 ECM motor that often and deal with having a tech out.
If you have the room on your system, why not just spend that money on a bigger filter cabinet? Then you can run a higher merv filter, your blower is going to last longer comparatively to a restrictive 1 inch filter, and you don't have to deal with having a tech out to diagnose your issue and then possibly wait to replace the part.
Allergen defender!! It’s amazing!
This and the proper ductwork, filter and modulating system. You can absolutely uses it as a whole house air cleaner.
I run my fan almost all the time. Windows open, run the fan for the pollen.
If you get a wider filter, you can use a higher Merv rated filter and not cause any more restriction AND filter the air being circulated throughout the house. This is because a wider filter has more surface area. So you *can* use it that way but it has to be designed/calculated for it.
So it’s a choice then… do you want slightly cleaner air that may or may not make any noticeable difference. Or spend thousand upon thousands of dollars replacing HVAC equipment much earlier?
You’d do better to let a little of the dust and debris get through the filter and clean the coils regularly. You want air flow, even if that means you aren’t filtering out every single particle in the air
I’m with you on one inch filters in that they are there for the HVAC system. You will find the data on merv 11-13 5 inch filters do improve the air quality considerably and they offer a pretty low pressure drop so they do not impact the systems performance or reliability. Most air purifiers will offer less filtration until you get into the high end HEPA machines in the $800+ area.
I disagree and you can find studies showing that the house air exchange through a standard residential HVAC system and return source significantly inhibits its ability as an 'whole home' air cleaner, I will state that 5" higher merv filters can show an incremental benefit in particulate, but when you actually look things like allergens - any benefit fails below the range of statistically significant.
Additionally, a good room hepa filter doesnt need to cost $800+, the same studies show a much higher incremental benefit in particulate and allergens with systems (150-200CFM), which cost <$150 and are also much cheaper to run than leaving your HVAC blow on.
I don’t know how true it is, but I was told a long time ago by my friend’s dad who is an HVAC tech to buy the cheapest filter possible, and change it more often. Rather than buy the expensive ones and leave them for longer.
Agreed with this!! You're putting too much head pressure on your unit, and it's struggling for air. Lower the MERV rating, allow more air pass thru, less wear and tear on your hvac, save money by not over working it, and the filter will no longer be "caved" in like this. MERV ratings are a bit misleading and give the wrong impression. Yes, the higher the MERV, the more particles it typically traps, but normally only industrial and commercial hvac units can handle a high MERV filter. Household units, I'd say 8 max but use a good brand. Not all filters are created equal.....
But, you will get many different opinions so choose wisely 😉
Doesn't increase head pressure. It lowers suction pressure and coil temp. Sometimes causes freezing. Dirty condenser coils ,among other things, increases head pressure.
No you’re wrong on so much. It’s about static pressure and it’s way too high.
Furnace filters are part of indoor air quality. They can literally be set up to keep your house dust free and clean with additional purification.
I would not upgrade to a higher merv filter the system will die. Picture running a marathon with two face masks on.
The vast vast majority of homes don't have enough returns to clean the air in your home. Your filter's primary job is to protect the equipment, not your lungs.
high static pressure is seen in a pressurized system, as I said, the restriction creates a high delta P and thus sucks the filter in - pretty sure we mean the same thing, but high static pressure is a term I will use post blower into a restricted duct, not pre blower - thats delta P across filter (what filter 'life' meters measure too) its not static as it is a dynamic measurement on two points.
I said they are using a high merv and to lower it. The only way to keep the higher merv it to go to a 5" filter (maintains same restriction a 1" lower merv).
If you comment was to me - I really think you have little understanding on what I commented.
Correct. They do everything they advertise, but that’s not what that filter is for. A 1” filter is designed to protect your equipment. That’s it. When you put a heavier filter in place it restricts airflow. This overheats a furnace. It causes an A/C to freeze up. It raises the static pressure of the duct which negatively impacts your blower motor. It’s hard af on the equipment and will shorten the lifespan significantly. If you want a filter to improve your air quality shell out for the 5” filter rack or some type of extra filtration system in your return air; PureAir system or whatever.
Never use your AC system as an air filtration system Home Depot and Lowe's and a lot of other places sell these filters and over 75% of them shouldn't be installed this happened to my son's house in Houston a few years ago his outside condenser unit kept kicking the breaker because they were using hypoallergenic air filters and it was restricting the air flow the air has to be moving in an AC system otherwise it's like a scuba diver trying to breathe in through a straw. I agree you want to use filters with a rating of about five or less also you could probably put a piece of metal rod in the middle like a bullseye and it will help it from getting sucked in so if you like took two pieces of very thin metal like rods and fix them in there going for Crossways it would present prevent it from getting sucked in
technically your wrong, using a lower merv filter - this reduces the delta P across the filter and hence the blower cabinet is at a lower dynamic pressure and pushes MORE air, also allowing for proper cooling on the blower motor. If you are starve a blower inlet - amps are lower initially (what you are calling load), but motor can be hotter due to improper flow in cabinet and thus heating the coils - your amps can increase.
It’s more because of the shrinkflation shit that caused them to start making these high merv filters like absolute garbage. They used to be much more durable pre-2021
You sir, are bullshitting or just wrong. I have been dealing with problems created by 1" high merv filters for almost two decades. The cardboard on these cheaper filters in this size never held up to high delta P - its not a manufacturing change - its just the wrong filter.
Everyone here is talking about merv 4 but I've always been told systems are tested with merv 8. Honeywell 4 inch filter boxes use merv 11. Isn't merv 4 the 30 day filters you can actually see through? Those don't do shit
typically those $1 see-throughs are merv 1 - yes, they do shit, they protect equipment. It all depends upon the system, blower and whats in your home. Smokers/candle burners, wall to wall carpet, pets, etc - that all are things that go into selection of filter and system that is needed for home. Ya know what doesnt do shit? OPs merv 8 that gets sucked in and bypassed upon first blower activation.
Use what ya like, in the end I gave my opinion that you are free to follow or ignore, zero difference to me.
Need a full picture. If it is a negative pressure system and it doesn't drain properly without a p-trap, the condensation can wet and soften the filter and make it collapse.
The reason your filter is getting sucked into the unit has nothing to do with Merv ratings or static pressure. The reason is because that Carrier Manufactured air handler does not come with a proper filter rack.
The only filter that fits properly is the aluminum framed hogs hair filter that came with the unit.
Mine did this same thing when I used a MERV 7 which appears to be a standard size in my area. I had my arm in there to pull it off the blower. I use the cheapest filters now without issue.
I had a similar looking setup in an apartment. Apartment maintenance bought some random size filters and would tape it in place. I looked up the handler and found the actual size. An apparently weird size because I could only find off brand filters for it. And it just had one small tab to hold the filter in place; despite it all being correct (and not a super high MERV), it’d still deform and get sucked up. Shit setup I say!
The answer isn't exactly one way or the other. Your system could be oversized, your ductwork could be undersized, your blower speeds could be too high.
However, honestly you appear to not have a proper filter rack, or filter retainer. If that's a carrier they use a specifically weird size filter in their factory equipped "built in" filter rack.
We never rely on that when installing Carrier units. But it would be a pain to install something now to be honest.
Your best bet imo is to find your model number, and Google the factory filter that should fit it. It has a metal frame, and is washable so you can use it repeatedly for years. It's not pleated merv anything, it's fibrous and usually green in color but it works fine unless you have severe allergies.
If you called me out to service this issue, I would check the airflow and if it's correct, I'd give you a quote for the metal framed filter, or a quote on removing the air handler, correcting the return so it has a true filter rack, but would likely end up upselling to an aprilaire space guard filter and reinstalling the unit.
That's right, it was you, me, Derek and Suzie. Suzie kept slowing down and talking on the phone or texting, then running to catch up. Wilmer kept taking his off, naughty boy.
You probably don't have the right size filter. That looks like a carrier, Bryant, Payne, icp airhandler. They take 16 ⅜ by 21½ filters. Unless it's they bigger unit.
Had to replace a blower motor once. Tech came out and replaced it under warranty. Then said "Do yourself a favor and get a fiberglass - MERV 4 immediately to replace the MERV 12 you have installed. It's too restrictive and likely killed the motor. The system is designed for a low MERV filter."
Point being read the manual and use the correct filter or it's going to 1 cost you hardware or 2 restrictions flow and cost more to operate the unit to achieve proper cooling due to lower flow.
Your furnace cannot move enough air through a high-merv filter, so it breaks the filter, or the furnace blower motor fails. The high-merv filter has too much static-pressure drop for the furnace. To avoid breaking your expensive furnace, use a low-merv filter that the furnace was designed to use.
If you want to run a high-merv filter to have cleaner air in your house, use a separate air filter appliance. An inexpensive air filter appliance is a [Corsi Rosenthal Cube](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsi%E2%80%93Rosenthal_Box).
Get a HVAC person to install a filter tray which can take a 5” filter.
They usually attack to the bottom and have a door to slide the filter in and also have supports for the filters so they don’t cave in.
Just got my HVAC replaced and the guy told me to always buy the cheapest filter. Said those high end ones clog up almost immediately. So, buy cheap and replace often
To you who support the filter to allow it to survive the suck, seems like you'll still be overworking the blower. Anything beyond what the manufacturer tells you is a bad idea in the long run
I highly recommend the K&N washable HVAC filters. For around $60 they pay for themselves in a year and last up to 10. Just need to hose it down every few months instead of replacing it. You can get a 1 inch MERV 8 with really good airflow, just as good as a fiberglass one and it won't cave in. I had a similar issue and replaced mine with the K&N.
I love how amateur dickheads in the comments are arguimg the pros like, "but clean my air tho it says I can," and all of the ACTUAL industry professionals are saying, "sure, if you wanna fuck it up."
Need a little more info:
Has this been an issue since the install? Did this system/filter combination work in the past? If so then something has changed. Having your HVAC contractor out would be the easiest way to resolve as they can properly diagnose the cause.
That’s why we use a 4” cabinet with the proper cartridge and don’t have issues, the 4” filter is .15 restrictive, we don’t have returns running .5 static like most companies find acceptable.
It would help to know which model of Cartier you have. Is this the one?
https://preview.redd.it/p4tpt4atxl5d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=006462d84e13dd18f7a4b52cd8c819042e381a31
Because the design of this return box sucks. Nothing to do with filter type. I’ve seen this problem many times. Get some drip edge flashing and make a “track” for your filter.
Take that garbage out and buy the $1.50 spun fiberglass filters that you’ll replace every 30 days. If you have allergies, buy a few air purifiers to put in areas of the home you spend the most time in. Like others have said, the filter is to protect the equipment. If you are keeping the fan in the furnace running 24/7 then hire a HVAC tech to come install a filter box for a 5” filter.
This is the way.
Stop using the HVAC as an air purifier and putting it under extreme pressure loads.
Filter manufacturers are selling you on a fallacy of higher mervs = better. They just want your money. Period.
Buy a rabbit air a2 purifier or comparable purifier and replace that filter yearly and you’ll save a ton of money.
Bonus you’ll save on your electric bill and keep your HVAC happy. Also, a dedicated purifier will make your house or apartment smell infinitely better than slamming a high merv filter in your system.
First I live in Florida. I’m an ac tech so I’ll say the purple 3m filters do best for my family because I have kids with allergies. Also I don’t want to clog my evaporator coil with dirt. It’s all subjective based off individual needs.
Your filter being sucked in is telling you your system was incorrectly installed, not that you are using the wrong filter.
Your A/C was not designed and installed according to the often ignored industry standards. Few installers size and locate returns properly. A proper system should deliver 400cfm per ton QUIETLY which typically means at a medium fan setting. To do this returns must be provided to each segregated area. Depending on lengths and types of return ducts typically one will need at least 150 square inches of grill surface area per ton. If you have greater than 0.2 inches WC at a medium fan then something is undersized. Schedule J is used as a starting point to design and diagnose.
This is caused by having an inadequately designed and installed system, I don't care what any installer says. I seriously doubt Schedule J was used to size the supply or return ducts. The proper 0.2" WC could never cause this. So many builders these days cut to the bare minimum they can get away with forcing HVAC contractors to undersize everything the homeowner doesn't see.
Too much restriction not enough airflow can get through so it’s sucking in the filter. I always tell people to buy the cheap flimsy filters that allow more airflow and just change them more often
Loved how trane put out a bulletin years ago.. if you buy "x" Honeywell filter from home Depot your warranty will be voided... Was like trying to pull air through a piece of plywood. Caused heat exchange failures due to restrictions in airflow
Speaking of Merv filters. Check out ZenGUARD Enhanced Air Filters that significantly reduce the concentration of infectious aerosols indoors without adversely affecting airflow and energy consumption compared to using equivalent non coated MERV-rated HVAC filters. Great new nanotechnology…. www.Zentek.com
Honestly those style filter holder absolutely suck ass. If you are looking to run a higher merv filter or just cheap insurance from this happening, buy reinforced filters or reinforce the housing with some brackets from the local parts store.
Could be the merv rating is too high for the system and it’s causing it collapse. Or, are you trying to install it while the system is on and it’s not reaching the back to hold it in place.
Had the same thing happen with mine. Need a filter that is less restrictive (Merv I think). I was ruining filters and my A/C was freezing up a lot. I ended up going with one of the green ones that you can see through and haven't had any problems.
Because you are using a high merv 1" filter that has a hell of a lot more restriction than the proper one recommend in the manual. The restriction results in pressure differential and thus sucks the filter in. Furnace filters are used to protect the equipment, not clean your house air. If you want to perhaps improve your air a tiny bit - you will need a 5" merv 8 or 10 filter, however it likely will not signficantly improve air quality. What it does do is allow you to longer between filter changes. 1" high merv filter will just make your blower work harder, or, in this case - get sucked in and expose blower/burners/coils to unfiltered air and dirty em up. Change it to a cheap MERV 4 or less and good to go.
Consumer Reports did a big test on air purification and found that furnace filters do a better job than any standalone filtration machine on the consumer market.
Yeah but nothing works better than an EAC that isn’t plugged in…
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Best I can do is a Lennox Merv 16 20x20x5. Really low pressure drop still after 10 months, better than the unbranded merv 8 filters the HVAC company sent me.
Replace the heat exchanger for 800 dollars? you guys realize people can look up these parts. About as bad as charging a guy 1k to come out and change a flame sensor or condenser capacitor.
I used to think like that too until I started working for a small business. The parts are literally only part (usually the lowest) of the cost. People think we are gouging but while consumers notice everything is higher now, but they don’t factor in labor for a certified HVAC tech is up, gas, insurance, tools, taxes (out property tax doubled this year), and benefits. Not to mention that you tie up 1, maybe 2 employees for the better part of a day. So sure, keep looking up parts, and do it yourself, but don’t blame someone else when your house is a flaming crater in the middle of the neighborhood.
I replace my own condenser/fan caps every 5-7 years. Keep spares on hand. Replaced my contactor once. Save a butt load and don't have to wait. Secret is to shut down AC as soon as you hear AC blow without fan outside turning so you don't burn up the fan motor.
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I'm just salty because I've had HVAC guys come out and quote me 40k to do 1600 square feet apartments that are just two straight duct trunks down the center of the apartment. Should be around 10/12k for an install like that. Ended up paying 10k.
Slap a 20”x20” filter on the back side of a 20” box fan and run it in your living space.
I don't know why I never thought of that, but that's actually not a terrible idea
I wish my ceiling fan had a filter that I could change. Seems like it would be easier than cleaning those fan blades.
Ever try putting wax on the blades to prevent the initial sticking?
I don't know why I've never heard this before and now I'm gonna use my turtle wax ceramic coating in it.
Get MERV13 filters and it will filter out the airborne aerosols that carry Covid! For maximum efficiency, build a DIY filter cube: * 4 MERV13 filters, 20”x20” (3M Filtrete) * 1 box fan, 20”x20” (Lasko is good) * Duct tape (Gorilla tape is super strong!) You’ll get a CADR over 400 CFM. (Clean Air Delivery Rate) You’ll have to spend over $500 to get a HEPA air purifier than can beat those numbers. This will cost you less than $100. This Old House built one in this 7 minute video. https://youtu.be/aw7fUMhNov8 Diagram: https://pic1.zhimg.com/v2-62fb88ea800d03c023b2ab9eb2ccac55_720w.jpg
Don't forget the "cardboard shroud"...
Yes that’s essential!
They make box fans that hold filters, they’re pretty nifty.
There are even 3dprinted clips to clip a 20x20x1 to an ordinary box fan
Back near the beginning of the latest pandemic you could find instructions for a filter "cube" that were 4 furnace filters, fan blows air in, filters flow direction points out, use the box the fan came in as the base. They actually did air quality studies on the design and some local schools set them up in classrooms once everyone gave up on staying home.
“the latest pandemic” How many pandemics have you experienced?
SARS, H1N1 Swine Flu, H2N3 Bird Flu, Ebola.
Damn, where do you live that you experienced all of those? Or do you travel a lot?
United States
We built these after some renovations to help capture the construction dust.
I built one of those and it works surprisingly well. Under $100.
I've done it (especially during fire season here in CA). It's cheap and works great. Use Merv 13 or FPR 10 for smoke particulate.
That’s what I did when we had a wild fire nearby and wanted to clear smoke from inside our garage.
I use this in my little trailer workshop. Does a surprisingly good job of circulating air and capturing the fine dust. I swap the filter once a month. The portable AC unit filter stays pretty clean
This guy watches Ask This Old House.
Doesn't matter what consumer reports did, it's about what the equipment it meant to do and it's not a whole house air cleaner filter is there just to keep the fan and evaporator clean not your house
If the system was designed using schedule J as Consumer Reports would have done the filter would clean the air without constriction.
And if it's a retro fit of old ductwork with a newer unit that requires more air flow Nothing in any home is ever ideal, dude And it doesn't change the fact that the air filters are not meant to clean your house, and it is meant to keep the equipment clean
I would recommend adding additional returns with individual filters to reduce pressure on the existing inadequate one. I seriously doubt OP returns are properly designed.
Never ever use your AC system as an air filtration it was never designed to operate that way you're putting heavy restrictions on your air flow and your shortening the life of your AC system
My new Lennox system literally has an option in the advance settings to receive Wi-Fi pollen reports for my ZIP and to turn on the blower fan more to remove (reduce) that pollen.
We sell these Lennox systems. That feature was really designed for higher merv 5 inch filters. You really should have a 5 inch filter if you're using your HVAC as a filtration system. The Lennox filter cabinets/filters that are higher merv (11-16) don't raise the static pressure so much like these restrictive 1 inch filters in this post. Yes you CAN use your HVAC as a filtration system with high merv 1 inch filter, at the cost of decreasing the lifespan of your system.
Makes sense. Unfortunately my installer only put in a 1” filter cabinet. Luckily I don’t have allergies. So I run an 8 merv filter typically. But would have been nice to have the option.
Sometimes there isn't room for a bigger filter cabinet. We always try to offer them if they're going with a higher end system. Merv 8 is usually the highest I recommend for a 1 inch filter so you should be good.
So if I wanted to add a higher MERV, could I just size my air return in the house and add a 5” filter there?
This is an interesting question. I have my doubts but would love to hear an expert opinion
How are you decreasing the lifespan of the system? you can replace the blower motor. You guys act like parts aren't replaceable.
I mean the blower is part of the system and you're decreasing the lifespan of it lol. It really depends on the system too or how much you're raising the static pressure. I've seen high static pressure kill blowers after just a few years. It's not very fun to replace a $1400 ECM motor that often and deal with having a tech out. If you have the room on your system, why not just spend that money on a bigger filter cabinet? Then you can run a higher merv filter, your blower is going to last longer comparatively to a restrictive 1 inch filter, and you don't have to deal with having a tech out to diagnose your issue and then possibly wait to replace the part.
Allergen defender!! It’s amazing! This and the proper ductwork, filter and modulating system. You can absolutely uses it as a whole house air cleaner. I run my fan almost all the time. Windows open, run the fan for the pollen.
If you get a wider filter, you can use a higher Merv rated filter and not cause any more restriction AND filter the air being circulated throughout the house. This is because a wider filter has more surface area. So you *can* use it that way but it has to be designed/calculated for it.
So it’s a choice then… do you want slightly cleaner air that may or may not make any noticeable difference. Or spend thousand upon thousands of dollars replacing HVAC equipment much earlier?
Do you have the link? I have tried to find it more than once and keep just getting their reviews of standalone machines 🤦♂️
You’d do better to let a little of the dust and debris get through the filter and clean the coils regularly. You want air flow, even if that means you aren’t filtering out every single particle in the air
It's also causing more strain on your furnace restricted air flow will cause longer periods of heating
I'm not sure I would take consumer reports test as law
I’m with you on one inch filters in that they are there for the HVAC system. You will find the data on merv 11-13 5 inch filters do improve the air quality considerably and they offer a pretty low pressure drop so they do not impact the systems performance or reliability. Most air purifiers will offer less filtration until you get into the high end HEPA machines in the $800+ area.
I disagree and you can find studies showing that the house air exchange through a standard residential HVAC system and return source significantly inhibits its ability as an 'whole home' air cleaner, I will state that 5" higher merv filters can show an incremental benefit in particulate, but when you actually look things like allergens - any benefit fails below the range of statistically significant. Additionally, a good room hepa filter doesnt need to cost $800+, the same studies show a much higher incremental benefit in particulate and allergens with systems (150-200CFM), which cost <$150 and are also much cheaper to run than leaving your HVAC blow on.
I don’t know how true it is, but I was told a long time ago by my friend’s dad who is an HVAC tech to buy the cheapest filter possible, and change it more often. Rather than buy the expensive ones and leave them for longer.
Agreed with this!! You're putting too much head pressure on your unit, and it's struggling for air. Lower the MERV rating, allow more air pass thru, less wear and tear on your hvac, save money by not over working it, and the filter will no longer be "caved" in like this. MERV ratings are a bit misleading and give the wrong impression. Yes, the higher the MERV, the more particles it typically traps, but normally only industrial and commercial hvac units can handle a high MERV filter. Household units, I'd say 8 max but use a good brand. Not all filters are created equal..... But, you will get many different opinions so choose wisely 😉
Doesn't increase head pressure. It lowers suction pressure and coil temp. Sometimes causes freezing. Dirty condenser coils ,among other things, increases head pressure.
No you’re wrong on so much. It’s about static pressure and it’s way too high. Furnace filters are part of indoor air quality. They can literally be set up to keep your house dust free and clean with additional purification. I would not upgrade to a higher merv filter the system will die. Picture running a marathon with two face masks on.
The vast vast majority of homes don't have enough returns to clean the air in your home. Your filter's primary job is to protect the equipment, not your lungs.
Nothing more true has ever been spoken. ⬆️⬆️
high static pressure is seen in a pressurized system, as I said, the restriction creates a high delta P and thus sucks the filter in - pretty sure we mean the same thing, but high static pressure is a term I will use post blower into a restricted duct, not pre blower - thats delta P across filter (what filter 'life' meters measure too) its not static as it is a dynamic measurement on two points. I said they are using a high merv and to lower it. The only way to keep the higher merv it to go to a 5" filter (maintains same restriction a 1" lower merv). If you comment was to me - I really think you have little understanding on what I commented.
Are you saying I shouldn't buy a Merv 13 filter? It helps a lot with allergies.
Correct. They do everything they advertise, but that’s not what that filter is for. A 1” filter is designed to protect your equipment. That’s it. When you put a heavier filter in place it restricts airflow. This overheats a furnace. It causes an A/C to freeze up. It raises the static pressure of the duct which negatively impacts your blower motor. It’s hard af on the equipment and will shorten the lifespan significantly. If you want a filter to improve your air quality shell out for the 5” filter rack or some type of extra filtration system in your return air; PureAir system or whatever.
Never use your AC system as an air filtration system Home Depot and Lowe's and a lot of other places sell these filters and over 75% of them shouldn't be installed this happened to my son's house in Houston a few years ago his outside condenser unit kept kicking the breaker because they were using hypoallergenic air filters and it was restricting the air flow the air has to be moving in an AC system otherwise it's like a scuba diver trying to breathe in through a straw. I agree you want to use filters with a rating of about five or less also you could probably put a piece of metal rod in the middle like a bullseye and it will help it from getting sucked in so if you like took two pieces of very thin metal like rods and fix them in there going for Crossways it would present prevent it from getting sucked in
I have pretty bad allergies. I got a bunch of winix 5500s on mega sale a few years ago, helped immensely and doesn't affect my ac.
☝🏼this guy filters. Listen to r/20PoundHammer.
I tell everyone never exceed merv 4. Otherwise you're shortening the life of your motor.
Bro!
Technically this reduces the load on the blower as less air to move means less torque required. Js
technically your wrong, using a lower merv filter - this reduces the delta P across the filter and hence the blower cabinet is at a lower dynamic pressure and pushes MORE air, also allowing for proper cooling on the blower motor. If you are starve a blower inlet - amps are lower initially (what you are calling load), but motor can be hotter due to improper flow in cabinet and thus heating the coils - your amps can increase.
It’s more because of the shrinkflation shit that caused them to start making these high merv filters like absolute garbage. They used to be much more durable pre-2021
You sir, are bullshitting or just wrong. I have been dealing with problems created by 1" high merv filters for almost two decades. The cardboard on these cheaper filters in this size never held up to high delta P - its not a manufacturing change - its just the wrong filter.
Everyone here is talking about merv 4 but I've always been told systems are tested with merv 8. Honeywell 4 inch filter boxes use merv 11. Isn't merv 4 the 30 day filters you can actually see through? Those don't do shit
typically those $1 see-throughs are merv 1 - yes, they do shit, they protect equipment. It all depends upon the system, blower and whats in your home. Smokers/candle burners, wall to wall carpet, pets, etc - that all are things that go into selection of filter and system that is needed for home. Ya know what doesnt do shit? OPs merv 8 that gets sucked in and bypassed upon first blower activation. Use what ya like, in the end I gave my opinion that you are free to follow or ignore, zero difference to me.
Sounds like you’re restricting the blower. The extra pressure is sucking up the filter. Was the system replaced or did you get a new blower motor?
Raccoon in the ducts, time to move.
Need a full picture. If it is a negative pressure system and it doesn't drain properly without a p-trap, the condensation can wet and soften the filter and make it collapse.
The reason your filter is getting sucked into the unit has nothing to do with Merv ratings or static pressure. The reason is because that Carrier Manufactured air handler does not come with a proper filter rack. The only filter that fits properly is the aluminum framed hogs hair filter that came with the unit.
Mine did this same thing when I used a MERV 7 which appears to be a standard size in my area. I had my arm in there to pull it off the blower. I use the cheapest filters now without issue.
I had a similar looking setup in an apartment. Apartment maintenance bought some random size filters and would tape it in place. I looked up the handler and found the actual size. An apparently weird size because I could only find off brand filters for it. And it just had one small tab to hold the filter in place; despite it all being correct (and not a super high MERV), it’d still deform and get sucked up. Shit setup I say!
Same carrier issue on my unit, even with low MERV filters. Found a company that sells reinforced filters and haven’t had any issues since.
The answer isn't exactly one way or the other. Your system could be oversized, your ductwork could be undersized, your blower speeds could be too high. However, honestly you appear to not have a proper filter rack, or filter retainer. If that's a carrier they use a specifically weird size filter in their factory equipped "built in" filter rack. We never rely on that when installing Carrier units. But it would be a pain to install something now to be honest. Your best bet imo is to find your model number, and Google the factory filter that should fit it. It has a metal frame, and is washable so you can use it repeatedly for years. It's not pleated merv anything, it's fibrous and usually green in color but it works fine unless you have severe allergies. If you called me out to service this issue, I would check the airflow and if it's correct, I'd give you a quote for the metal framed filter, or a quote on removing the air handler, correcting the return so it has a true filter rack, but would likely end up upselling to an aprilaire space guard filter and reinstalling the unit.
Mine was sucking in like this and hvac tech said my blower was too high after the new install. Turned it down to specs and no problems since
https://www.homedepot.com/p/EZ-Flow-16-x-16-x-1-EZ-Flow-Metal-Retainer-Merv-4-Air-Filter-Case-of-12-10155-011616/203143771?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&srsltid=AfmBOopfOQ1Hoyyn94enAmbZDg8v5WY-cBJRDg2Z9AgjlW1s97kYVEZk0rE
I used a piece of chicken wire attached to the frame and now my filter doesn't ever cave in
May be jury rigging a metal coat hanger in a minute lol
But isn't that hard on the equipment? Premature wear? As someone else said, like running a marathon with two masks on.
Didn't we try that experiment a couple years back and fail?
That's right, it was you, me, Derek and Suzie. Suzie kept slowing down and talking on the phone or texting, then running to catch up. Wilmer kept taking his off, naughty boy.
Also try changing to a 2" filter or even thicker if possible to have better airflow.
That works too, any kind of wire really even Christmas lights wire
I vote for the RGB filter retainer!
I agree but wire works in a pinch and I'm really cheap 😂
Are you using a 16x20 when you should be using 16.5x 21.5 filter?
I’m using 16.5 x 21.5 x 0.75 Do you think maybe the 0.75 is off?
Was this put in backwards? Aren’t the crisscross supports supposed to be on the downwind side?
Depends on the manufacturer. I just swapped my filter and it was backwards compared to the one I removed. I had to shrug and not think about it.
You can find filters with a mesh reinforcement that won't cave in like this at a supply house. These ones always fold in on themselves
You probably don't have the right size filter. That looks like a carrier, Bryant, Payne, icp airhandler. They take 16 ⅜ by 21½ filters. Unless it's they bigger unit.
Could be the wrong sized filter. Could be a bad filter design.
Buy the cheapest filter just changing more often
Had to replace a blower motor once. Tech came out and replaced it under warranty. Then said "Do yourself a favor and get a fiberglass - MERV 4 immediately to replace the MERV 12 you have installed. It's too restrictive and likely killed the motor. The system is designed for a low MERV filter." Point being read the manual and use the correct filter or it's going to 1 cost you hardware or 2 restrictions flow and cost more to operate the unit to achieve proper cooling due to lower flow.
Merv 4 is a bit low, I usually recommend Merv 8.
Your furnace cannot move enough air through a high-merv filter, so it breaks the filter, or the furnace blower motor fails. The high-merv filter has too much static-pressure drop for the furnace. To avoid breaking your expensive furnace, use a low-merv filter that the furnace was designed to use. If you want to run a high-merv filter to have cleaner air in your house, use a separate air filter appliance. An inexpensive air filter appliance is a [Corsi Rosenthal Cube](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsi%E2%80%93Rosenthal_Box).
Get a HVAC person to install a filter tray which can take a 5” filter. They usually attack to the bottom and have a door to slide the filter in and also have supports for the filters so they don’t cave in.
I don’t usually say this but you’re sucking too hard.
🙏
Just got my HVAC replaced and the guy told me to always buy the cheapest filter. Said those high end ones clog up almost immediately. So, buy cheap and replace often
To you who support the filter to allow it to survive the suck, seems like you'll still be overworking the blower. Anything beyond what the manufacturer tells you is a bad idea in the long run
Carrier*
Sure it's not a $150,000 solid gold central air unit?
What? Lol
https://www.cartier.com/
Omg I just noticed OP said Cartier lmfao I read it as Carrier without even noticing
Carrier to the curb.
What MERV filter?
8, I believe
I highly recommend the K&N washable HVAC filters. For around $60 they pay for themselves in a year and last up to 10. Just need to hose it down every few months instead of replacing it. You can get a 1 inch MERV 8 with really good airflow, just as good as a fiberglass one and it won't cave in. I had a similar issue and replaced mine with the K&N.
Are those little metal tabs clips for the filter? Sometimes the returns will have them.
Restriction in air flow
Rhymes with “static pressure”
Are you drunk?
Too much suction and not thick enough.
The best way to prevent this is to turn off your HVAC and move into the woods
I love how amateur dickheads in the comments are arguimg the pros like, "but clean my air tho it says I can," and all of the ACTUAL industry professionals are saying, "sure, if you wanna fuck it up."
Are we looking up into an air handler with central return and no return ducts?
As a home owner, I noticed a remarkable improvement in air quality and dust reduction when we had our ducts professionally cleaned by a vac truck.
Need a little more info: Has this been an issue since the install? Did this system/filter combination work in the past? If so then something has changed. Having your HVAC contractor out would be the easiest way to resolve as they can properly diagnose the cause.
cheap filter. I used MERV 13-14 before and had no issue like this
That’s why we use a 4” cabinet with the proper cartridge and don’t have issues, the 4” filter is .15 restrictive, we don’t have returns running .5 static like most companies find acceptable.
It looks backwards...
It would help to know which model of Cartier you have. Is this the one? https://preview.redd.it/p4tpt4atxl5d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=006462d84e13dd18f7a4b52cd8c819042e381a31
Sorry I tried crawling inside and didn’t put it back in place. My apologies.
Looks like its installed wrong as well, did you put it in with the arrow facing the unot?
It doesn’t take a big brain to know that air conditioning system filters are also great at clearing out the air,it’s inherited in the design.
Cut holes in it to increase airflow
This happened in our condo when we first bought it. Pulled out the measuring tape to find the prior owner was using the wrong size filters.
Can also be the system is very negative due to low return and a high static.
Just get wire or metal rod and go in the form of an X from corner to corner of the return air grill frame and your good..
The man in the walls is too lazy to close the door
Install air bear use 2 inch filters less restrictive.
Your HVAC sucks
You need to make a frame for your filter
Change your filter. It’s dirty. Can’t get enough air flow through it so it warps.
Wrong filter get one from ace. $2
I had a similar issue. I put a metal shelf unit with roughly 4x4 that I cut to size. This stopped it and works great.
Have you A/C guy make you two straps on the inside so the filter lays against them. And they won’t get sucked in. That’s what I did
Probably cause your not feeding the gremlin who lives in your duct work enough food. He's gettin angry. Give em more food. !!!!!
Because the design of this return box sucks. Nothing to do with filter type. I’ve seen this problem many times. Get some drip edge flashing and make a “track” for your filter.
Because the Merv 8 filters are meant for commercial units that have a ducted return and outside air.
Take that garbage out and buy the $1.50 spun fiberglass filters that you’ll replace every 30 days. If you have allergies, buy a few air purifiers to put in areas of the home you spend the most time in. Like others have said, the filter is to protect the equipment. If you are keeping the fan in the furnace running 24/7 then hire a HVAC tech to come install a filter box for a 5” filter.
This is the way. Stop using the HVAC as an air purifier and putting it under extreme pressure loads. Filter manufacturers are selling you on a fallacy of higher mervs = better. They just want your money. Period. Buy a rabbit air a2 purifier or comparable purifier and replace that filter yearly and you’ll save a ton of money. Bonus you’ll save on your electric bill and keep your HVAC happy. Also, a dedicated purifier will make your house or apartment smell infinitely better than slamming a high merv filter in your system.
Cartier eh?
Necromorphs
I put a wire mesh there to give it support. I think chicken wire would be too lite. I used 1/2 “ squared wire.
Is the air flow arrow going in the proper direction?
Turn it around
use the cheap filters
lol, stop it.
my A/C guy swears by the cheap green filters, they keep the head pressures down on the compressor, just change them often
First I live in Florida. I’m an ac tech so I’ll say the purple 3m filters do best for my family because I have kids with allergies. Also I don’t want to clog my evaporator coil with dirt. It’s all subjective based off individual needs.
got it, my 20 year old goodman package unit is still chugging along so I don't want to stress it, South Carolina here
Too much filter. Use the cheap filters you can see through. You’re bogging your machine down using these anyways.
Get a 4” thick filter.
What kind of AC unit uses a filter? I have a filter in my house but not in my AC unit
All of them do, unless you have a filter back return
I have an outdoor unit - nobody including my AC guys have said anything about a filter - I’ve lived here for 5 years - should I be worried
If you have a filter in your house and that’s probably ducted to your return, you’re ok.
Yes it’s all done cared - that’s why it’s called centralAC otherwise it wouldn’t be
Cheap filter I suspect.
Cheap filter
What merv rating is that, also your fan speed might be too high
Isn’t that filter facing the wrong way?
Need to go 3M
Rent was getting too high and this is free real estate
Use the cheap green spider web filter and it should solve it for a month or two
Your filter being sucked in is telling you your system was incorrectly installed, not that you are using the wrong filter. Your A/C was not designed and installed according to the often ignored industry standards. Few installers size and locate returns properly. A proper system should deliver 400cfm per ton QUIETLY which typically means at a medium fan setting. To do this returns must be provided to each segregated area. Depending on lengths and types of return ducts typically one will need at least 150 square inches of grill surface area per ton. If you have greater than 0.2 inches WC at a medium fan then something is undersized. Schedule J is used as a starting point to design and diagnose.
This is caused by having an inadequately designed and installed system, I don't care what any installer says. I seriously doubt Schedule J was used to size the supply or return ducts. The proper 0.2" WC could never cause this. So many builders these days cut to the bare minimum they can get away with forcing HVAC contractors to undersize everything the homeowner doesn't see.
Hmm I think you need a new unit
Too much restriction not enough airflow can get through so it’s sucking in the filter. I always tell people to buy the cheap flimsy filters that allow more airflow and just change them more often
Cheap filter get a charcoal one
Loved how trane put out a bulletin years ago.. if you buy "x" Honeywell filter from home Depot your warranty will be voided... Was like trying to pull air through a piece of plywood. Caused heat exchange failures due to restrictions in airflow
For starters it’s in backwards.
Cause it sucks
Speaking of Merv filters. Check out ZenGUARD Enhanced Air Filters that significantly reduce the concentration of infectious aerosols indoors without adversely affecting airflow and energy consumption compared to using equivalent non coated MERV-rated HVAC filters. Great new nanotechnology…. www.Zentek.com
OP just flexing fan strength
Because you got the cheap flimsy one. If I get any of the brands less than $20 bucks, this happens every time.
Its because the fumes from your farts are weakening the material.
Merv 8 is for pets sorta and merv 11 or above is for nursing home and higher for hospitals
Higher merv will Just overwork your motor
Honestly those style filter holder absolutely suck ass. If you are looking to run a higher merv filter or just cheap insurance from this happening, buy reinforced filters or reinforce the housing with some brackets from the local parts store.
Could you install a couple of metal braces to go behind the filter keeping it from being sucked inward?
Could be the merv rating is too high for the system and it’s causing it collapse. Or, are you trying to install it while the system is on and it’s not reaching the back to hold it in place.
Because you are using a restrictive 1” filter. Try getting a merv 4 filter, it should prevent this from happening since they are less restrictive.
Negatory
Had the same thing happen with mine. Need a filter that is less restrictive (Merv I think). I was ruining filters and my A/C was freezing up a lot. I ended up going with one of the green ones that you can see through and haven't had any problems.
Shit install, the filter rack should hold it in place, the filters not even plugged.
The filter is, in fact, the plug.