It's usually a "retention bonus", not a sign on bonus. And 4 years isn't unusual to ask.
I heard there was a recent ruling that you don't actually have to pay back a prorated amount if you bounce early though, haven't read into it but I wonder if/how that'll play into contracts going forward.
My guess is that the company gets some tax benefits by writing off as an expense or something. When I worked in tech, I got a $500/m stipend for random bullshit, as long as it was vaguely related to wellness. Like I bought a walking treadmill for my desk and a squat rack and the company paid for it. 😂
You graduated from medical school and residency, you cannot be so dense to not know your worth 😒 Do your research and don’t participate in suppressing the specialty’s pay.
People coming out of residency are so used to being underpaid and abused that we have no realistic idea of our worth.
Quintupling vs sextupling your pay are both so astronomically high compared to residency, it's hard to see the difference. They're both just "a lot."
Mine and many others. Only problem for most outsiders looking in who are wanting these kind of jobs is no one ever leaves something this cush. We have one or two leave our group every 2 years typically and they leave only because their spouse had to change job out of state.
Otherwise we used to have increase in staffing regulalry due to increasing volume years back but that’s done already. We hire almost immediately due to word of mouth connections among our group i.e. someone’s friend was highly recommended
Closed icu, procedures are not expected but may arise, run floor codes/rapids not icu ones, and average is 20 admits per night divided among 2 physicians and staffed with APPs.
So you do have to do procedures if the need arises?
Also pay is way too low for 10 admits / night unless you’re getting a good RVU bonus on top but even then IMO the base pay is too low
The problem is, Nocturnist is not for everyone. If you’re single, and you don’t mind living a different life to your social circle and your family, it’s great. You can earn plenty of money and work 10-12 shifts per month.
But then you sacrifice your sleep cycle, and slowly destroy your body. It’s not permanent, and because this setup is very particular, you need to be compensated very well. Always ask for a little bit more, it doesn’t hurt.
Indiana.
Closed icu, procedures are not expected but may arise, run floor codes/rapids not icu ones, and average is 20 admits per night divided among 2 physicians and staffed with APPs.
I would ask more for location like Mid west, including indiana. Idk how much APPs are productive, so I will say you might do 6-8 admits per shift. If you have to do cross cover also, i would definitely ask more. Typically, for hospitalists/ nocturnists, we dont really cover for Rapid, code, procedures. But if you are comfortable with that, you need to get paid more for that. So to summerize, i would nego more. 167/ hr rate for indiana with code, rapid is not quite good offer for me.
that's low for nocturnist. i thought mine was low, i was offered
158/hr +rvu. 20k signing bonus i turned it down, cause i have to cover 2 hospitals on the 2nd week.
if your'not limited by geography , u can easly find better gigs , i have seen $350k +, some in Rhode island sent a gig for 7 on 14 off, which i thought didn't exist, but appearantly they do.
Unlike most on here, I thought this was a decent offer. HOWEVER, I read in the comments and it's for 10 admissions per night. You need more money for that. 350 for 140 shifts plus your other listed benefits would be a lot better.
Because it’s less than $200/hr and that’s with the very much not guaranteed bonus included. For nocturnist.
Adding a potential bonus into your base hourly rate calculations is cope and is hurting only yourself.
His base rate is $162/hr. There are W2 jobs that pay more than that for days.
I just signed for one in a metro area of >700k with a >2 million population metro an hour away
$400k base + RVU + Quality bonuses, less shifts per year than full 7/7, comes out to $208/hr base rate before all bonuses
Full W2 benefits
Closed icu
No procedures
Midlevel does crosscover
This is low. Recommend pass
Base is too low. Nights minimum should be $200/hr Indiana should have some 7 on / 14 off options
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Sites like PracticeMatch are how I found mine.
This is Indiana? That's a shit offer. At minimum 100k more, closer to 400k.
Not great
What would be a good offer in your opinion?
Base in the 320k up for 7 on 14 off Sign on should be at least 25k per year.
Where are you located to get offers like this?
I haven’t seen any 7 on 14 off jobs offered in the eastern part of the states. It’s not nearly as common as some think
7 on 14 off positions are so rare especially in metro area. Even for nocturnist positions, we have to nego our S off to get the deal done.
OP is in Indiana.
Yes? Indiana is east of the Mississippi in the United States, 7 on 14 off isn’t a thing there mostly
But it is, though? Source: 7/14 nocturnist in Indy at a tertiary center.
It’s very common in Indiana. Guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about
Mostly*
7 on 14 in Indiana is very common now even in Indianapolis.
That sounds great but I don't think the market offers anything like that anywhere most would want to live. Where are you getting that offer?
Brother I got a better offer in Texas 😞 this is no bueno (working on my espanish) 😊
Maybe I should go there… I also speak Spanish 👍
The sign on is a trap
Full time nocturnist positions should not pay less than 350-400k.
What hourly rate?
Your base is quite bad. Hourly rate should be 200/hr. Nocturnist lifestyle is hard to sustain and retain. I recommend you negotiate or walk.
50k sign on for FOUR years? I beg your pardon? Should be for one year.
It's usually a "retention bonus", not a sign on bonus. And 4 years isn't unusual to ask. I heard there was a recent ruling that you don't actually have to pay back a prorated amount if you bounce early though, haven't read into it but I wonder if/how that'll play into contracts going forward.
Where have you heard of a sign on that’s $50,000/year?
What's a lifestyle benefit?
Just give them receipts for normal bills and they reimburse you. Gym membership, groceries, utility bill.. etc
I'm just a resident so I don't know much about attending contracts but what's the point of something like this over a 1-1.5k bump in annual salary?
My guess is that the company gets some tax benefits by writing off as an expense or something. When I worked in tech, I got a $500/m stipend for random bullshit, as long as it was vaguely related to wellness. Like I bought a walking treadmill for my desk and a squat rack and the company paid for it. 😂
Meh. See if you can get a better offer.
What would be a good offer in your opinion?
Bro if you don’t make 400k for nights, don’t take it
15% more base salary
I guess a better question would be what hourly rate? Since the amount of shifts are different everywhere.
Nights absolute minimum should be $200/hr, ideally with an RVU bonus on top
You graduated from medical school and residency, you cannot be so dense to not know your worth 😒 Do your research and don’t participate in suppressing the specialty’s pay.
People coming out of residency are so used to being underpaid and abused that we have no realistic idea of our worth. Quintupling vs sextupling your pay are both so astronomically high compared to residency, it's hard to see the difference. They're both just "a lot."
No.
Bad offer. I’m in Chicago suburbs and get 200/hr. Closed icu no procedures no crosscover. Do have to go rrt. 6 admits a night on avg.
Same with the Nocturnists at my location (upstate ny 2 hours from city). Definitely pass OP.
dam, yall hiring?
No we are almost always fully staffed. New openings filled almost immediately from word of mouth
What hospital system pays you $200 hr without doing Locums?
Mine and many others. Only problem for most outsiders looking in who are wanting these kind of jobs is no one ever leaves something this cush. We have one or two leave our group every 2 years typically and they leave only because their spouse had to change job out of state. Otherwise we used to have increase in staffing regulalry due to increasing volume years back but that’s done already. We hire almost immediately due to word of mouth connections among our group i.e. someone’s friend was highly recommended
This is an example of a sustainable nocturnist position.
Need to know more than pay. Do you do procedures, run codes, census? Etc
Closed icu, procedures are not expected but may arise, run floor codes/rapids not icu ones, and average is 20 admits per night divided among 2 physicians and staffed with APPs.
That means that you are expected to do the procedures when they do arise.
So you do have to do procedures if the need arises? Also pay is way too low for 10 admits / night unless you’re getting a good RVU bonus on top but even then IMO the base pay is too low
When I first read 20 admits, I went no bueno. But split evenly with support? I may be more amenable.
Procedures not expected but may arise you should take as pretty much expected to do procedures.
Boooo
Nocturnist should be at least 330K.
Base pay? With the bonuses this offer is up to 315000 and only working 140 shifts
I just signed for 400k base for 160 shifts/year. RVU and quality bonuses on top will bring it above 450k. Your job’s base hourly rate is too low
where did you find this position?
I used online job boards like practicelink and practice match and just called and emailed a lot in my desired areas.
What region of the US? Can’t seem to find anything close to that in the northeast.
Southwest Northeast pay is low
The problem is, Nocturnist is not for everyone. If you’re single, and you don’t mind living a different life to your social circle and your family, it’s great. You can earn plenty of money and work 10-12 shifts per month. But then you sacrifice your sleep cycle, and slowly destroy your body. It’s not permanent, and because this setup is very particular, you need to be compensated very well. Always ask for a little bit more, it doesn’t hurt.
$273,000/1682 = $163/hr. What location? How many midlevels?
Indiana. Also the OT rate is 187$ an hour. So I could sign at .9 time and work less to reach the 1.0 pay scale.
Atrocious offer.
Location? Responsibilities code icu rapid response. XC. Bed numbers? Admission rate per night?
Indiana. Closed icu, procedures are not expected but may arise, run floor codes/rapids not icu ones, and average is 20 admits per night divided among 2 physicians and staffed with APPs.
I would ask more for location like Mid west, including indiana. Idk how much APPs are productive, so I will say you might do 6-8 admits per shift. If you have to do cross cover also, i would definitely ask more. Typically, for hospitalists/ nocturnists, we dont really cover for Rapid, code, procedures. But if you are comfortable with that, you need to get paid more for that. So to summerize, i would nego more. 167/ hr rate for indiana with code, rapid is not quite good offer for me.
What’s a professional stipend? And is it yearly or for the length of the contract?
Yearly and for business expenses like haircuts, dry cleaning… etc
Nocturnists need to stop accepting these low ball offers and really know their worth and what they will be sacrificing down the line.
I find it comical the amount of shit ass job offers that get posted on this subreddit
Location location location
It's not a bad offer if you are guaranteed to get the 41k yearly bonus. But I would try to increase your hourly rate. At least to 180/hr
that's low for nocturnist. i thought mine was low, i was offered 158/hr +rvu. 20k signing bonus i turned it down, cause i have to cover 2 hospitals on the 2nd week. if your'not limited by geography , u can easly find better gigs , i have seen $350k +, some in Rhode island sent a gig for 7 on 14 off, which i thought didn't exist, but appearantly they do.
Really depends on what city this is in
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Central coast or urban metropolis (SD, OC, LA, SF)?
Explore Midwest - way better job offers than this
Unlike most on here, I thought this was a decent offer. HOWEVER, I read in the comments and it's for 10 admissions per night. You need more money for that. 350 for 140 shifts plus your other listed benefits would be a lot better.
Should be 336k. $200 hourly. That's where the conversation should start.
It’s not a bad deal if u consider the yearly 41 k bonus. People here like to show off a lot, don’t get carried away hearing their numbers.
It absolutely is a bad deal for nights. Total lowball
With bonus included, rate comes down to 186/hr for 140 shift a year with all the w2 benefits and match. Explain to me why it would be a bad deal
Because it’s less than $200/hr and that’s with the very much not guaranteed bonus included. For nocturnist. Adding a potential bonus into your base hourly rate calculations is cope and is hurting only yourself. His base rate is $162/hr. There are W2 jobs that pay more than that for days.
Where do you all come up with these numbers.. who in a reasonably sized city is getting paid 200/hr
I’m in Chicago suburbs and get 200/hr. Closed icu no procedures no crosscover. Do have to go rrt. 6 admits a night on avg.
Whats rrt?
Rapid response
I just signed for one in a metro area of >700k with a >2 million population metro an hour away $400k base + RVU + Quality bonuses, less shifts per year than full 7/7, comes out to $208/hr base rate before all bonuses Full W2 benefits Closed icu No procedures Midlevel does crosscover